James Harden: 39PPG 45%FG 37%3PT 64%TS

[insidious301]

His last 6 games

42PPG - 8AST - 5REB / 50%FG - 47%3PT and only 7FTA.

Absolutely dominant.

In my opinion, the best offensive threat alive AND best natural scorer. A lot is talked about Harden's playoff resume. I get it, but he's still having a season for the ages.

A few questions. Where does this rank amongst the best scoring years? '88 MJ, '06 Kobe, '03 Mcgrady etc. And also HOW would his game translate if he played during Jordan's era - the 90s.

[Marchesk]

n my opinion, the best offensive threat alive AND best natural scorer.

I don't think Harden is a better natural scorer than Durant, but he is able to maximize his scoring under the current rules and play style. Also, Curry is still a much better shooter.

Harden is given the green light to dominate the ball and shoot as many threes as he sees fit. That should be taken into account.

[Kblaze8855]

https://iili.io/HlDncb.jpg

[insidious301]

I don't think Harden is a better natural scorer than Durant, but he is able to maximize his scoring under the current rules and play style. Also, Curry is still a much better shooter.

Harden is given the green light to dominate the ball and shoot as many threes as he sees fit. That should be taken into account.

I agree.

I'm fully aware of Durant but he isn't playing. Right now Harden is clearly the best scorer. Historically, where do you think his season thus far stacks up? How about in the 90s? Is he scoring the same? Less or more?

[3ball]

I don't think Harden is a better natural scorer than Durant, but he is able to maximize his scoring under the current rules and play style. Also, Curry is still a much better shooter.

Harden is given the green light to dominate the ball and shoot as many threes as he sees fit. That should be taken into account.
"taken into account"?

or EVERYTHING...

today's open format combined with his style of play that takes advantage of it the best (the most ball-domination ever) is the reason he's scoring so much - the d'antoni system.. whatever you want to call it... it's everything - not just some minor factor that needs to be 'taken into account'

how many ppg for harden in the triangle? somebody make that thread - I'd make it but I just made one

[insidious301]

"taken into account"?

or EVERYTHING...

today's open format combined with his style of play that takes advantage of it the best (the most ball-domination ever) is the reason he's scoring so much - the d'antoni system.. whatever you want to call it... it's everything - not just some minor factor that needs to be 'taken into account'

how many ppg for harden in the triangle? somebody make that thread - I'd make it but I just made one

Thanks to DA BULLS the triangle was a popular offense in the 90s. How would that change Harden's scoring? Combined with the tougher, league rules.

Feel free to post your thoughts here. :confusedshrug:

[CelticBaller]

King James

[Marchesk]

Right now Harden is clearly the best scorer.

Yes, he's clearly the best scorer last couple seasons.



Historically, where do you think his season thus far stacks up?

A top 5 all-time so far.


And also HOW would his game translate if he played during Jordan's era - the 90s.

Is he playing in the same system? Are we just time travelling him there? How is he getting officiated? How do the 90s defenses adjust to his three point shooting?

That's the problem with all these cross-era arguments.

I don't know. I do think in the playoffs they would get very physical with him. I would love to see Scottie and Mike guarding him in a big game.

[3ball]

Feel free to post your thoughts here. :confusedshrug:

The triangle was a popular offense in the 90s thanks to DA BULLS. How would that change Harden's scoring? Combined with the tougher, league rules.
how would not using live/existing dribbles (largely outlawed in the triangle) affect harden's scoring?

how many points does harden score each game without starting a live dribble first?.. none?.. 2?....4?... couldn't be much more than that

[JohnMax]

Harden is averaging 38.8 PPG. That’s the highest PPG average since Wilt in 1963 and higher than any MJ or Kobe season ... absolutely amazing.

[3ball]

Harden is averaging 38.8 PPG. That’s the highest PPG average since Wilt in 1963 and higher than any MJ or Kobe season ... absolutely amazing.
it's amazing to see someone dominate the ball and waltz down open lanes all day?

it's a disgrace to the game that the NBA puts this product out there and calls it basketball

1 ball-dominator/4 shooters isn't basketball... it's a f.ucking DRILL bro

[DMAVS41]

He's scoring 7.4 more points per game than the next highest in the league.

He's doing it on great efficiency and his team is winning at a 55 win pace iirc.

At some point...you just have to realize what he's doing is all-time great.

[insidious301]

Yes, he's clearly the best scorer last couple seasons.

Last year? Don't think I would call him better than Durant.

James had better scoring numbers but when Durant was healthy, I think his scoring skills and ability were still greater. I'll put it this way. Swap both players, and I think Durant also averages historic numbers. To his credit, Harden has taken it up a notch. So its closer. Lately he's been doing it without all the freethrows. Most of you will appreciate that.




A top 5 all-time so far.

:eek:


Is he playing in the same system? Are we just time travelling him there? How is he getting officiated? How do the 90s defenses adjust to his three point shooting?

Put him on a team equal to Houston. Similar system. Same opportunities allotted by the coach. How many points is James Harden today averaging in the 90s?

Everyone's talking about the playoffs. Think we're all in agreement there. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

it's amazing to see someone dominate the ball and waltz down open lanes all day?

it's a disgrace to the game that the NBA puts this product out there and calls it basketball

1 ball-dominator/4 shooters isn't basketball... it's a f.ucking DRILL bro

Yes, it was so much more impressive when Kobe and Iverson were scoring a lot back in 06. Even though Kobe was actually getting more free throws iirc...

So, was that also a disgrace?

[warriorfan]

https://iili.io/HlDncb.jpg

Harden had an amazing post season last year....

Coming from the guy who got upset when people called out DeMar Derozen for being ass....You should be kissing Harden

[tpols]

Yes, it was so much more impressive when Kobe and Iverson were scoring a lot back in 06. Even though Kobe was actually getting more free throws iirc...

So, was that also a disgrace?


what does ball dominance have to do with FTs?

iverson and kobe didnt play anything like harden.

he's criticizing his play style... not his numbers. Harden's definitely great he can just be annoying sometimes with the flopping.

[insidious301]

He's scoring 7.4 more points per game than the next highest in the league.

He's doing it on great efficiency and his team is winning at a 55 win pace iirc.

At some point...you just have to realize what he's doing is all-time great.

One of the best scoring seasons in modern history - post merger. Easily in my opinion. Say what you want about defenses. Nobodies doing what Harden's done, and that's with a ball dominator like Westbrook.

[DMAVS41]

what does ball dominance have to do with FTs?

iverson and kobe didnt play anything like harden.

he's criticizing his play style... not his numbers. Harden's definitely great he can just be annoying sometimes with the flopping.

The reason he's scoring a lot is because he's using a lot of possessions to score...combined with the fact that he's able to score at an insane efficiency on volume.

Yes, it isn't fun to watch most of the time.

But, we shouldn't judge players on how ugly or pretty their game is...it is about how impactful it is.

And saying that he's only doing this shit because of the system is no different than saying Kobe/Iverson in 06 only scored a lot because they used up a ton of possessions for themselves. It is a pointless statement.

Yes, it is easier to score now, but even just judging Harden relative to his peers...he's doing all-time great things. So unless you are going to make the argument that players overall just aren't as good as they used to be...you kind of just have to acknowledge the greatness.

And, at some point...you guys have to realize that taking 14 threes a game at 37% really matters. Why blame Harden when he can do that? Kobe couldn't do that...Harden is a much better 3 point shooter. Plenty of things Kobe could do that Harden can't, but just not sure what you guys bitch about so often here. People finally realized that a 3 is a way better shot than all the long 2's guys like Kobe used to take...and that is a big part of the reason why Harden is damn near impossible to stop...he can wet 3's consistently on insane volume, efficiency, and difficulty...and the points add up.

[Ghost1]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d5/c6/f6/d5c6f630d4adf1aadd6e33d72361fe8f.gif

[Facepalm]

it's amazing to see someone dominate the ball and waltz down open lanes all day?

it's a disgrace to the game that the NBA puts this product out there and calls it basketball

1 ball-dominator/4 shooters isn't basketball... it's a f.ucking DRILL bro
All these arguments fail to address one thing...like it or not, it's effective so why isn't anyone else able to do it?

[Facepalm]

https://iili.io/HlDncb.jpg
What were last season's play off stats?

[Kblaze8855]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Harden had an amazing post season last year....

Coming from the guy who got upset when people called out DeMar Derozen for being ass....You should be kissing Harden

[Kblaze8855]

What were last season's play off stats?

I don

[tpols]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]You

[Marchesk]

All these arguments fail to address one thing...like it or not, it's effective so why isn't anyone else able to do it?

Similar to Westbrook having having those triple double seasons right? It was incredible, but do we really believe nobody else since Oscar was capable of doing it? Say Lebron couldn't average a TPD during his prime if he really wanted to?

Maybe it had something to do with the high usage rate for both Harden and Westbrook, and the teams/systems they play for. Harden does take the most threes in the league. Bu he's not the only good volume shooter.

[Kblaze8855]

you're straddling a fine line


True. But I keep it pretty consistent.


Almost exactly 6 years ago...probably the worst rating I can find me giving him:


Naaaaaaah homie.

Hes a very good player. Im not sure how far beyond that I go.

I wouldnt want to watch a lot of him.

Hes who id show to people to explain why watching the NBA isnt as fun as it used to be for me.

High rate of plays I dont want to see called the way they are....and pullup threes.

Just not the game I want to watch.

Later that year:



His antics would annoy me much more than the difference between him and Jimmy Butler would improve the Bulls. If I had the opportunity to build a team from scratch and harden were handed to me I wouldn't refuse obviously. But if I already had Jimmy Butler or Klay Thompson and swapping them for Harden would cost me anything at all I would say no and focus my efforts elsewhere.

My distaste for his style doesn't go to the point where I would make my team forego a player of his caliber just to not have him. But I wouldn't take him if I had a half reasonable alternative and could apply whatever savings there might be to another area of the team.

If I have to trade Jimmy Butler and a late first or two second round picks for James Harden you can go **** yourself. Id bring an even swap to the coach and see what he thought about it. I wouldn't even entertain the idea of the exchange if I have to add anything in addition to it.

I wouldn't trade Jimmy Butler and my best pair of shoes for James Harden.

Straight up swap or I'm hanging up the phone. In fact I would buy an old school rotary phone before the call just so I could hang it up more emphatically if you try to get anything extra.

I don't need that guy if there's a viable alternative.



Like him or not I have to acknowledge that Harden is one of the best pick and roll players in the NBA. He's more than a bit better than Drexler there. But I still don't want him on my team.



As he improved:


4 years ago almost to the day(december 27)



You cant just go get gifted 11 FTs a game without the talent to get people out of position and on their heels for your embarrassing flops and rake throughs...

James Hardens handles are otherworldly at times for a swingman and he has to be the most annoying person in the world to guard.

Id like to think none of us actually believe he can just flop his way to this much success. If he could...we would all have a James Harden on our favorite team(to borrow a point from another topic going on right now).

I will give him props on being good enough....to get all these calls.

But I cant say I enjoy watching him do it. A Harden highlight reel where you cant see the multiple stops in play for FTs you hate to see anyone get.....is amazing.

Harden with his jumper working?

https://i.imgflip.com/g6qqv.gif

He is just...nasty. A "smh..." kinda experience in a good way. He makes guys look like straight up fools.

But watching his usual game? Live action not highlights?

He might be the most annoying great player of my life.


Here is something else from a while back:




Id say one thing is overblown....and its overblown with almost everyone current.

His lack of playoff success.

We always feel like legends won more than they did.

Guys we do nothing but respect might have won 5 playoff series in 18 years.



Even the people who I hate to watch.....my "hate" is like....."Hes great...but **** him".

My hate doesnt reach a delusional point where I act like they arent good.

[tpols]

fair enough...

[3ball]

Yes, it was so much more impressive when Kobe and Iverson were scoring a lot back in 06. Even though Kobe was actually getting more free throws iirc...

So, was that also a disgrace?
Firstly, Kobe didn't play in today's 1-ball-dominator/4 shooter drill era.. He played in an era where the brand of ball was more diverse - only 1 team played the "drill" brand, and that was D'Antoni.. otherwise, there were other brands like the Thibidou brand, the Rivers brand, the Popovich brand, the Phil brand, the Riley brand, the Larry Brown brand, the George Karl brand, etc, etc.. they all played a little different.. Nowadays, these same coaches play largely the same.. the individual uniqueness, and pure basketball nature of the game is gone - now it's a drill, and who can produce the most in that drill wins.

Secondly, Kobe didn't play under today's new standard of scoring guards like Harden and Westbrook who 1) bring the ball up and 2) keep the ball after passing half court..

Kobe generally didn't bring the ball up, and even when he did, the standard for PG's back then was to generally pass the ball upon crossing halfcourt..

Today's standard is to keep the ball for nearly the entire shot clock and make the play - that's a big difference compared to say, Isiah Thomas, who brought the ball up and usually gave it up soon after, essentially becoming an off-guard for the remainder of the possession unless there's a reset of offense..

Essentially, today's offenses are Kobe's dream - bring the ball up... and KEEP it.. :banana:

[DMAVS41]

Firstly, Kobe didn't play in today's 1-ball-dominator/4 shooter drill era.. He played in an era where the brand of ball was more diverse - only 1 team played the "drill" brand, and that was D'Antoni.. otherwise, there were other brands like the Thibidou brand, the Rivers brand, the Popovich brand, the Phil brand, the Riley brand, the Larry Brown brand, the George Karl brand, etc, etc.. they all played a little different.. Nowadays, these same coaches play largely the same.. the individual uniqueness, and pure basketball nature of the game is gone - now it's a drill, and who can produce the most in that drill wins.

Secondly, Kobe didn't play under today's new standard of scoring guards like Harden and Westbrook who 1) bring the ball up and 2) keep the ball after passing half court..

Kobe generally didn't bring the ball up, and even when he did, the standard for PG's back then was to generally pass the ball upon crossing halfcourt..

Today's standard is to keep the ball for nearly the entire shot clock and make the play - that's a big difference compared to say, Isiah Thomas, who brought the ball up and usually gave it up soon after, essentially becoming an off-guard for the remainder of the possession unless there's a reset of offense..

Essentially, today's offenses are Kobe's dream - bring the ball up... and KEEP it.. :banana:

Nah, you can't diminish what Harden is doing by saying the game is just a drill.

If it was that easy, more teams would do what the Rockets do as the offense since they started playing like this has been elite every single year...and they've won a ton of games.

What he's doing...is all-time great. Inflated for sure, but still great.

Compare him to the rest of the league...he's currently scoring 7 plus more points per game than the next highest.

Is what it is...and I don't even like Harden...but to do what he's done this year and the last few years on the kind of efficiency he has...is remarkable...simple as that.

[stalkerforlife]

https://iili.io/HlDncb.jpg

:roll:

It don't mean a thing without that ring.

But you dont believe that.

[Kblaze8855]

Some things are just funny.