Will we ever see anyone take the GOAT crown from LeBron? He has everyone beat.

[Rico2016]

When looking at post season numbers LeBron reign supreme all over the entire game of basketball...It just isn't fair. He should be known as LeBully for bullying every other player in the post season, even on fewer years.

# of post seasons

Bird 12
LeBron 13
Jordan 13
Kobe 15
Shaq 16
Kareem 18


1st again

https://i.postimg.cc/fW86MLD4/fix-bom.png

[TheMan]

Check my $tat$ :oldlol:

[SpaceJam2]

1st again

https://i.postimg.cc/D0mtkdbj/LeBully.png

:eek: :eek:

Stains will avoid this like the plague

[AlternativeAcc.]

It's impossible

GOAT athlete
GOAT IQ
GOAT skillset
GOAT durability
GOAT impact
GOAT clutch/killer instinct
GOAT stats


^^^^


he can never be surpassed, once in forever type athlete

[SpaceJam2]

It's impossible

GOAT athlete
GOAT IQ
GOAT skillset
GOAT durability
GOAT impact
GOAT clutch/killer instinct
GOAT stats


^^^^


he can never be surpassed, once in forever type athlete

I'll bet any number he wont be passed in his playoff records. No one is ever going to be better than him. If Kareem couldn't do it in 18. If MJ couldn't do it in 13. If Shaq couldn't in 15, etc. Forget it

points: NOPE (GOAT SCORER)
steals: NOPE (GOAT DEFENDER)
game winners: NOPE (GOAT CLUTCH GOD)

[brutalBBQ]

Can't take something he never had.

[Keno]

He's the undisputed GOAT for a reason. :applause:

[SpaceJam2]

He's the undisputed GOAT for a reason. :applause:

The one that set the bar too high even for Mikey J

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRdjC2Yp/leader.png

LeBar has been set

[jayfan]

:roll:

:roll:

:roll:

[Leviathon1121]

I

[Gileraracer]

Nice stats, less than 5 rings would be a shame

[nayte]

That is so hard to read. Can i have a stats per game please

[HylianNightmare]

Except for opposing teams in the finals

[coin24]

Has anyone gifted there opponent the FMVP as many times as bran??

[bullettooth]

When nothing else is in your favor, always fall back on stats.

Empty stats.

[brutalBBQ]

Imagine scoring almost 1000 more points in the playoffs than MJ and having the least amount of rings on that list,
MJ 6
KAJ 6
Kobe 5
Shaq 4
LeBev 3

[mr4speed]

When looking at post season numbers LeBron reign supreme all over the entire game of basketball...It just isn't fair. He should be known as LeBully for bullying every other player in the post season, even on fewer years.

# of post seasons

Bird 12
LeBron 13
Jordan 13
Kobe 15
Shaq 16
Kareem 18


1st again



https://i.postimg.cc/fW86MLD4/fix-bom.png

In order to bring some clarity to this list, you need to list the number of games played by each player. Compiling totals does not take into account the NBA has changed the number of games played per round. Therefore the number of playoff games , even if every player made it to the finals every year, would be different. This is a compilation of totals and IMO would be more accurate with a measuring stick using number of games played. And it does not take into account how many games were won and lost.

[Real14]

Nobody will ever be better than Lebron

[DoctorP]

this kind of ignorance is dangerous

jordan goat

i have spoken

[Real14]

this kind of ignorance is dangerous

jordan goat

i have spoken
How is he goat???

[3ball]

career totals only measure longevity

MJ did more per game (5 more ppg on better efficiency rating, better efficiency per possession)

there's never been a player that averaged 5 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the far better player.. :rockon:

[Real14]

Lebron single handedly defeated the best team of all time in 2016 while Jordan ducked Hakeem.

[3ball]

Lebron single handedly defeated the best team of all time in 2016 while Jordan ducked Hakeem.
The ol' 73-win argument eh??… :facepalm

So I guess Baron Davis and Dwight Howard > MJ because they beat 66-win teams and MJ didn't... :rolleyes:

The 73-win argument is super-weak, and MJ's arguments are far superior:

- twice as many rings as "the man" as anyone else in the modern era/3-pointer basketball, 6 to 3
- while leading in ppg, efficiency rating, defense at his position, clutch
- the goat "tough shot" maker/aka midrange king

no one is close

[DoctorP]

How is he goat???

google it, ignoramus

[And1AllDay]

In order to bring some clarity to this list, you need to list the number of games played by each player. Compiling totals does not take into account the NBA has changed the number of games played per round. Therefore the number of playoff games , even if every player made it to the finals every year, would be different. This is a compilation of totals and IMO would be more accurate with a measuring stick using number of games played. And it does not take into account how many games were won and lost.


bron played 13 playoffs everyone else on the list played the same or more :oldlol:


nice try tho :oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

career totals only measure longevity

MJ did more per game (5 more ppg on better efficiency rating, better efficiency per possession)

there's never been a player that averaged 5 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the far better player.. :rockon:

mike dont got the records anymore lil bro

sorry :oldlol:

[3ball]

mike dont got the records anymore lil bro

sorry :oldlol:
Lebron is #1 in literally nothing

MJ is #1 in PPG, midrange, SG defense, and clutch

that's 4 things that MJ is #1 at, compared to 0 for Lebron.

[Real14]

google it, ignoramus
If it wasn't for Pippen he would not have 1 ring.

[3ball]

If it wasn't for Pippen he would not have 1 ring.
Pippen is less help than everyone in history that has 2+ rings

since when is a 18/6 wing who can't shoot considered great help?

remember, MJ had lower ranked defense/less defensive help in every ECF and also a couple Finals - so defense has nothing to do with it

pippen was simply trash... it's a good think that MJ only needed an 18 ppg scorer and the #7 defense to 3-peat... anyone else would need WAAAAAAAY more bro...

[Real14]

Pippen is less help than everyone in history that has 2+ rings

since when is a 18/6 wing who can't shoot considered great help?

remember, MJ had lower ranked defense/less defensive help in every ECF and also a couple Finals - so defense has nothing to do with it
Pippen was top 50 greatest NBA players plus Rodman is the rebounding GOAT.

[Rico2016]

[QUOTE=3ball]MJ won his 1st three-peat without a 3rd scorer or star

And during the 2nd three-peat, 36-year old Rodman averaged 4/8 for the entire 1997 playoffs and wasn't even the starter for the 1998 playoffs (4/8 in the Finals)

Don't you wonder how the Bulls had the #1 offense in the league (#6 all-time) while playing 4 on 5 offensively with Rodman, and having a weak-scoring 2nd option in Pippen?

They obviously had goat teamwork, which means MJ was scoring 30+ while employing the best brand of ball - no one has ever scored so much WHILE playing championship ball/goat teamwork.. MJ was literally the perfect player..

ultimately, only MJ had to be scoring champ to win rings (the biggest load possible)

[3ball]

If Pippen wasn't so valuable to MJ's success then why is it for the 5 years he did not play with Pippen he was under .500% every year, missed the playoffs twice, and has 1 playoff game win in the aforementioned Pippenless years in which he played?
You guys don't get it

MJ wasn't going to have lottery casts his entire career - front offices are willing to spend money to surround a top 10 all-time player with some talent

So if it wasn't Pippen, it would be some other 18/6 player who couldn't shoot.

pippen + role players was minimal help, which is why 538 lists MJ's 1991 and 1993 casts as the weakest to ever win, except for Hakeem's 1994 and Dirk's 2011

it's crazy because MJ almost beat Detroit in 1990 with a very weak Pippen - it would've been the goat ring easily if Pippen didn't have that migraine in game 7 (2 points, 1-10).. and the reality is that MJ's help in 1991 was basically the same as 1990 - rookie coach and a non-prime Pippen.

[And1AllDay]

Lebron is #1 in literally nothing

MJ is #1 in PPG, midrange, SG defense, and clutch

that's 4 things that MJ is #1 at, compared to 0 for Lebron.


um

https://i.postimg.cc/zBhdYFCw/Bar-Set2high.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/Y92DMhtF/Feelings_hurt.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/Znx3zhGg/yuyuyuyuyu.gif

[3ball]

um


lebron just played longer than everyone else

his RATE of production isn't #1 in any category except BPM, but only because MJ came back to the Wizards... and VORP is another accumulation stat... so again, he's #1 in nothing

[mr4speed]

bron played 13 playoffs everyone else on the list played the same or more :oldlol:


nice try tho :oldlol:
Reread my post. The "number of playoffs" is not the same and the number of playoff games is different for each player. In order to get clarity and give your "totals" some perspective, the number of games for each player needs to be listed.

[brutalBBQ]

lebron just played longer than everyone else

his RATE of production isn't #1 in any category except BPM, but only because MJ came back to the Wizards... and VORP is another accumulation stat... so again, he's #1 in nothing
This.
Imagine if Jordan played 17 seasons and had access to the same bio chemistry and technology LeBron has enjoyed ....

[Rico2016]

um

https://i.postimg.cc/zBhdYFCw/Bar-Set2high.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/Y92DMhtF/Feelings_hurt.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/Znx3zhGg/yuyuyuyuyu.gif


3ball running again?

[Rico2016]

This.
Imagine if Jordan played 17 seasons and had access to the same bio chemistry and technology LeBron has enjoyed ....


Imagine if LeBron played milkmen and all he had to do was score

[RealSkipBayless]

Probably not for a long time. Giannis seems to get exposed by certain defenses.. and comes up short in the playoffs.

Luka has the best chance but even then it's a slim chance.

[Duncan21formvp]

Can

[3ball]

Probably not for a long time. Giannis seems to get exposed by certain defenses.. and comes up short in the playoffs.

Luka has the best chance but even then it's a slim chance.
you mean like lebron in the 07' Finals, 08' ECSF, 11' Finals, 13' Finals, and 09' ECF?

Giannis and lebron are the same player except giannis is stronger finisher at the rim

[DoctorP]

If it wasn't for Pippen he would not have 1 ring.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0MYMQiJEtzFd0CTC/source.gif

[Real14]

[QUOTE=Duncan21formvp]Can

[sportjames23]

Can't take something he never had.

GOT.

'EM.

:djparty


:banana: :dancin :hammertime:

[Uncle Drew]

We have won once more. No one will take the crown from The King, ever.

[bullettooth]

We have won once more. No one will take the crown from The King, ever.

Except his genetics and that balding crown.

[Gileraracer]

[QUOTE=Duncan21formvp]Can

[mr4speed]

When looking at post season numbers LeBron reign supreme all over the entire game of basketball...It just isn't fair. He should be known as LeBully for bullying every other player in the post season, even on fewer years.

# of post seasons

Bird 12
LeBron 13
Jordan 13
Kobe 15
Shaq 16
Kareem 18


1st again

https://i.postimg.cc/fW86MLD4/fix-bom.png

Here is the list by number of games played in the playoffs =
Points = Jordan at 33.4 per game
Rebounds = Shaq at 11.6 per game
Assists = Lebron at 7.1 per game
Steals = Jordan at 2.1 per game
Blocks = Kareem at 2.4 per game
Turnovers = Lebron at 3.6 per game
Lebron has played 239 playoff games, KAJ played 237, Kobe played 220, Shaq played 216, Jordan played 179 and Bird played 164. This puts the perspective on player output per game, by category, rather than just compiling totals.
For observation, pts per game Lebron is 2nd with 28.9 and Kobe 3rd with 25.6
Rebounds was Kareem at 10.5 and Bird at 10.3
Assists was Bird at 6.5 and Jorrdan at 5.7
Steals was Bird and Lebron both at 1.8
Blocks was Shaq at 2.1
Turnovers was KAJ at 3.4
I thought we could use some clarity here!!!

[Rico2016]

GOT.

'EM.




:banana: :dancin :hammertime:

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png

[Rico2016]

Will we ever see it?

[3ball]

Here is the list by number of games played in the playoffs =
Points = Jordan at 33.4 per game
Rebounds = Shaq at 11.6 per game
Assists = Lebron at 7.1 per game
Steals = Jordan at 2.1 per game
Blocks = Kareem at 2.4 per game
Turnovers = Lebron at 3.6 per game
Lebron has played 239 playoff games, KAJ played 237, Kobe played 220, Shaq played 216, Jordan played 179 and Bird played 164. This puts the perspective on player output per game, by category, rather than just compiling totals.
For observation, pts per game Lebron is 2nd with 28.9 and Kobe 3rd with 25.6
Rebounds was Kareem at 10.5 and Bird at 10.3
Assists was Bird at 6.5 and Jorrdan at 5.7
Steals was Bird and Lebron both at 1.8
Blocks was Shaq at 2.1
Turnovers was KAJ at 3.4
I thought we could use some clarity here!!!
you can tell this is the post of an honest, objective poster that doesn't frequently post in this forum

he tries to post stats and logic, but gets ignored.. lol

[Smoke117]

you can tell this is the post of an honest, objective poster that doesn't frequently post in this forum

he tries to post stats and logic, but gets ignored.. lol

Logic you say? When have you ever used that on this board? Common sense and logic are as foreign to you as it is any other knucklehead here.

[Rico2016]

you can tell this is the post of an honest, objective poster that doesn't frequently post in this forum

he tries to post stats and logic, but gets ignored.. lol


Not true at all. Going off of 'per game' punishes Kobe, Shaq, Kareem, etc. for making more playoffs into the later part of their career and would also reward MJ for missing the playoffs in his later career. Totals is fair, ESPCIALLY if LeBron has equal or near equal playoff runs. 13 to MJ's 13, to Kareem's 18, etc.

No one talks about most touchdowns or homeruns per game. It's all about totals. Homerun King = TOTALS. Nice try, hope you understand now. Everyone else gets it but you.

Scoring King

Playoffs = LeBron
Regular season = Kareem (for now)

[Rico2016]

I'll bet any number he wont be passed in his playoff records. No one is ever going to be better than him. If Kareem couldn't do it in 18. If MJ couldn't do it in 13. If Shaq couldn't in 15, etc. Forget it

points: NOPE (GOAT SCORER)
steals: NOPE (GOAT DEFENDER)
game winners: NOPE (GOAT CLUTCH GOD)


What's anyone's take? Could they be beaten in 13 playoff runs? Even 14? 15? 20? Ever?

[mr4speed]

Not true at all. Going off of 'per game' punishes Kobe, Shaq, Kareem, etc. for making more playoffs into the later part of their career and would also reward MJ for missing the playoffs in his later career. Totals is fair, ESPCIALLY if LeBron has equal or near equal playoff runs. 13 to MJ's 13, to Kareem's 18, etc.

No one talks about most touchdowns or homeruns per game. It's all about totals. Homerun King = TOTALS. Nice try, hope you understand now. Everyone else gets it but you.

Scoring King

Playoffs = LeBron
Regular season = Kareem (for now)
Actually per game matters. If a player cannot produce, that should still be the measurement. And people talk about it. Have you ever researched Roger Maris with 61 homeruns in an extended 162 game season when he "broke" Babe Ruth's 60 homerun season that was only 154 games? There was such a dispute, an asterisk was put after the record to indicate the season was longer. Maris did not have 61 homeruns after 154 games. So who had the better season? It is a debate. Even Ruth vs Aaron was a debate. Ruth hit a homerun every 12 times at bat vs Aaron hitting a homer every 16 times at bat. Again it is a debate.
Lebron's longevity is to be commended but to claim he is the best at all categories because of compiling totals is not accurate. The per game measures a player's effectiveness and Lebron only has the highest assist per game at 7.1 but he also has the highest turnover rate at 3.6 per game. If you look at assist per turnover ratio, Bird actually becomes #1 in that category, with Lebron behind him and Jordan 3rd. That would leave Lebron as not leading in any of the categories you listed on a per game basis. This sheds a more accurate light on how all of these players compare to one another.

[And1AllDay]

um

https://i.postimg.cc/zBhdYFCw/Bar-Set2high.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/Y92DMhtF/Feelings_hurt.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/Znx3zhGg/yuyuyuyuyu.gif

anyone ?

[And1AllDay]

Actually per game matters. If a player cannot produce, that should still be the measurement. And people talk about it. Have you ever researched Roger Maris with 61 homeruns in an extended 162 game season when he "broke" Babe Ruth's 60 homerun season that was only 154 games? There was such a dispute, an asterisk was put after the record to indicate the season was longer. Maris did not have 61 homeruns after 154 games. So who had the better season? It is a debate. Even Ruth vs Aaron was a debate. Ruth hit a homerun every 12 times at bat vs Aaron hitting a homer every 16 times at bat. Again it is a debate.
Lebron's longevity is to be commended but to claim he is the best at all categories because of compiling totals is not accurate. The per game measures a player's effectiveness and Lebron only has the highest assist per game at 7.1 but he also has the highest turnover rate at 3.6 per game. If you look at assist per turnover ratio, Bird actually becomes #1 in that category, with Lebron behind him and Jordan 3rd. That would leave Lebron as not leading in any of the categories you listed on a per game basis. This sheds a more accurate light on how all of these players compare to one another.


all this to not know the home run king of baseball was always known as

babe ruth 714
hank aaron 755
barry bonds 762

same with touchdowns

everyone knows it goes

rice
emmit
lt
moss
t.o

no one asks about the games they played :oldlol:

[3ball]

Logic you say? When have you ever used that on this board? Common sense and logic are as foreign to you as it is any other knucklehead here.
it's quite logical to say that since Lebron's skillset turns teammates into spot-up shooters, he can't develop teammates/teams and must acquire ready-made stars/teams/favorite status via team-hopping.

that's logical, right?

and is it logical to say that Lebron has historically started at SF but then shares PG duties with the PG - this creates a 2 point guard lineup that gives teammates less time and assists than they get in 1-PG lineups, thus causing low TEAM assists and a brand that struggles on the championship level, aka 3/9...

that's logical, right?



Logic you say? When have you ever used that on this board? Common sense and logic are as foreign to you as it is any other knucklehead here.
okay, this one is probably too much for you:

isn't it a simple reality of basketball that the Spurs wouldn't score as much in 2014 Finals if they had to work harder defensively - i.e. if the Heat were moving the ball and applying the same pressure that they were facing, it would've been a close, nip and tuck series.. but they scored the least against the spurs/made the spurs work the least, so the spurs went off the most on them.

the Spurs had figured out Bron-ball and were super-comfortable defensively, allowing them to go off offensively - that's why Lebron gets blown away for the last 3 games in each of his 6 Finals losses - teams figure out his simple style and start winning the attrition war going away.. Bron-ball's long dribbling simply doesn't win the attrition war vs ball movement at the championship level - it's that simple

[Rico2016]

it's quite logical to say that since Lebron's skillset turns teammates into spot-up shooters, he can't develop teammates/teams and must acquire ready-made stars/teams/favorite status via team-hopping.

that's logical, right?

and is it logical to say that Lebron has historically started at SF but then shares PG duties with the PG - this creates a 2 point guard lineup that gives teammates less time and assists than they get in 1-PG lineups, thus causing low TEAM assists and a brand that struggles on the championship level, aka 3/9...

that's logical, right?



okay, this one is probably too much for you:

isn't it a simple reality of basketball that the Spurs wouldn't score as much in 2014 Finals if they had to work harder defensively - i.e. if the Heat were moving the ball and applying the same pressure that they were facing, it would've been a close, nip and tuck series.. but they scored the least against the spurs/made the spurs work the least, so the spurs went off the most on them.

the Spurs had figured out Bron-ball and were super-comfortable defensively, allowing them to go off offensively - that's why Lebron gets blown away for the last 3 games in each of his 6 Finals losses - teams figure out his simple style and start winning the attrition war going away.. Bron-ball's long dribbling simply doesn't win the attrition war vs ball movement at the championship level - it's that simple

Wait a minute. Spot up shooters? Havent you been raving on and on about how amazing Kyrie looked in the 2016 Finals? You said Kyrie performed even better than the guy who was a literal leader in every series stat. How is that for elevation?

[Hittin_Shots]

all this to not know the home run king of baseball was always known as

babe ruth 714
hank aaron 755
barry bonds 762

same with touchdowns

everyone knows it goes

rice
emmit
lt
moss
t.o

no one asks about the games they played :oldlol:

Those sports are shit and you're shit, stop referring to your many alts as everyone you batshit crazy cuck.

[jstern]

Lebron's argument as the GOAT is just too flawed. Future generations who are not emotionally vested in him are just going to be meh. And I say that as a big fan of his. One short example is Jordan's career being filled with things like revenge games, flu games, that whole sequence of stealing the ball in the final seconds of the NBA Finals and then hitting that shot. Too many such moments to describe in a short random post. While Lebron's career is filled with the exact opposite, including colluding when he can't overcome, losing to Dwight Howard. We're talking about situations like 2011, the playoff mode activation followed by however many loses, and being pushed to play defense. Too many such moments to describe in such a short random post. It's an abnormal GOAT character in Jordan, vs a regular character in Lebron.

The Jordan personality is just a true life GOAT.

[Rico2016]

Lebron's argument as the GOAT is just too flawed. Future generations who are not emotionally vested in him are just going to be meh. And I say that as a big fan of his. One short example is Jordan's career being filled with things like revenge games, flu games, that whole sequence of stealing the ball in the final seconds of the NBA Finals and then hitting that shot. Too many such moments to describe in a short random post. While Lebron's career is filled with the exact opposite, including colluding when he can't overcome, losing to Dwight Howard. We're talking about situations like 2011, the playoff mode activation followed by however many loses, and being pushed to play defense. Too many such moments to describe in such a short random post. It's an abnormal GOAT character in Jordan, vs a regular character in Lebron.

The Jordan personality is just a true life GOAT.

Im not sure of this. 6911 is 6911. 1st is 1st. The emotionally invested are not just fans, but haters too. You cannot logically argue against someone 1st in nearly every single individual playoff record.

1st for game winners (12)
1st for steals (420)
1st for Finals Triple Doubles (11)?
1st for points (6911)
1st for consecutive conference wins/Finals trips (8) *not counting 50s Russell

It's a lot...

[Real14]

Kawhi and Giannis are better than him including A.D and Retarden.

[jstern]

Im not sure of this. 6911 is 6911. 1st is 1st. The emotionally invested are not just fans, but haters too. You cannot logically argue against someone 1st in nearly every single individual playoff record.

1st for game winners (12)
1st for steals (420)
1st for Finals Triple Doubles (11)?
1st for points (6911)
1st for consecutive conference wins/Finals trips (8) *not counting 50s Russell

It's a lot...
I'm confused by your response. It doesn't seem to fit about what I wrote. I talk about his flawed argument for GOAT and how that's going to prevent future generations who are not emotionally vested in him to be meh. And you say that haters are also emotionally invested too. Like what exactly does that mean? Are you saying that people in the future are not going to be meh because haters during Lebron's time are also emotionally invested?

The Lebron Ball stat padding argument that you brought up due to longevity is also a very weak argument that is just too simplistic. Almost like a default argument to try and steer away from just some of the flaws that I mentioned. Constantly losing to the likes of Dwight Howard while being MVP and having the best record in the league, in a historically weak East. Colluding, stacking the deck because he couldn't step it up while losing to the likes of Dwight Howard. Meanwhile the whole Jordan persona is of someone who would literally die to win. Never lost, upsetted as a favorite. Lebron doesn't ooze GOAT at all. Top ten, but not GOAT.

It current generations don't have Wilt as the GOAT due to his stats, then future generations are not going to care about Lebron's longevity stat padding stats.

[Rico2016]

Kawhi and Giannis are better than him including A.D and Retarden.

Im not sure of this. 6911 is 6911. 1st is 1st. The emotionally invested are not just fans, but haters too. You cannot logically argue against someone 1st in nearly every single individual playoff record.

1st for game winners (12)
1st for steals (420)
1st for Finals Triple Doubles (11)?
1st for points (6911)
1st for consecutive conference wins/Finals trips (8) *not counting 50s Russell

It's a lot...

[Rico2016]

I'm confused by your response. It doesn't seem to fit about what I wrote. I talk about his flawed argument for GOAT and how that's going to prevent future generations who are not emotionally vested in him to be meh. And you say that haters are also emotionally invested too. Like what exactly does that mean? Are you saying that people in the future are not going to be meh because haters during Lebron's time are also emotionally invested?

The Lebron Ball stat padding argument that you brought up due to longevity is also a very weak argument that is just too simplistic. Almost like a default argument to try and steer away from just some of the flaws that I mentioned. Constantly losing to the likes of Dwight Howard while being MVP and having the best record in the league, in a historically weak East. Colluding, stacking the deck because he couldn't step it up while losing to the likes of Dwight Howard. Meanwhile the whole Jordan persona is of someone who would literally die to win. Never lost, upsetted as a favorite. Lebron doesn't ooze GOAT at all. Top ten, but not GOAT.

It current generations don't have Wilt as the GOAT due to his stats, then future generations are not going to care about Lebron's longevity stat padding stats.

You're getting emotional. "Longevity"

Really? When he has played equal or fewer playoffs than all the other listed? Be a bit more: Objective.

Any MJ or Kobe fan is more emotionally invested than a LeBron fan. They are faced with accepting their hero (MJ, or Kobe) has been passed. LeBron Fam does not know this feeling because we have the crown. We have the records. We hear emptionally charged arguments about why Kobe was 6 for 24 or had 1 MVP in 20 years. We hear emotionally charged arguments about how tough it was for MJ to beat mailmen and auto mechanics while also telling us how bad Pippen is.

They shout 3-9 but forget 1-9. They shout longevity when 13 playoff runs was equal or less.

[Leviathon1121]

Im not sure of this. 6911 is 6911. 1st is 1st. The emotionally invested are not just fans, but haters too. You cannot logically argue against someone 1st in nearly every single individual playoff record.

1st for game winners (12)
1st for steals (420)
1st for Finals Triple Doubles (11)?
1st for points (6911)
1st for consecutive conference wins/Finals trips (8) *not counting 50s Russell

It's a lot...
And yet he has never won any major poll that I

[AirTupac]

I'm confused by your response. It doesn't seem to fit about what I wrote. I talk about his flawed argument for GOAT and how that's going to prevent future generations who are not emotionally vested in him to be meh. And you say that haters are also emotionally invested too. Like what exactly does that mean? Are you saying that people in the future are not going to be meh because haters during Lebron's time are also emotionally invested?

The Lebron Ball stat padding argument that you brought up due to longevity is also a very weak argument that is just too simplistic. Almost like a default argument to try and steer away from just some of the flaws that I mentioned. Constantly losing to the likes of Dwight Howard while being MVP and having the best record in the league, in a historically weak East. Colluding, stacking the deck because he couldn't step it up while losing to the likes of Dwight Howard. Meanwhile the whole Jordan persona is of someone who would literally die to win. Never lost, upsetted as a favorite. Lebron doesn't ooze GOAT at all. Top ten, but not GOAT.

It current generations don't have Wilt as the GOAT due to his stats, then future generations are not going to care about Lebron's longevity stat padding stats.


You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Most of LeBron's crazy fanboys will ignore everything you say and ignore the literal flaws and just spam some stat. Its eery how fvcked these kids are in the head.

[Rico2016]

Is 6900 untouchable?
12 game winners?
400 steals?
34 ppg in elimination games?

As an individual he is a better player than anyone. By far.

[andgar923]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhFJFTj9BEQ embarrassing :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[BigShotBob]

Is 6900 untouchable?
12 game winners?
400 steals?
34 ppg in elimination games?

As an individual he is a better player than anyone. By far.

So Wilt > Lebron?

Got it.

Stats >>>>>

[Rico2016]

So Wilt > Lebron?

Got it.

Stats >>>>>

Well LeBron had all those records over everyone, including Wilt and MJ, so:

LeBron > Everyone

[andgar923]

Well LeBron had all those records over everyone, including Wilt and MJ, so:

LeBron > Everyonehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhFJFTj9BEQ embarrassing :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[BigShotBob]

Well LeBron had all those records over everyone, including Wilt and MJ, so:

LeBron > Everyone

No, a lot of Wilt's stats weren't recorded. He holds the most records in NBA history, which is why most stats say *Post NBA-ABA merger.

Learn your history.

[DoctorP]

Is 6900 untouchable?
12 game winners?
400 steals?
34 ppg in elimination games?

As an individual he is a better player than anyone. By far.


https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0MYMQiJEtzFd0CTC/source.gif

[Uncle Drew]

No, a lot of Wilt's stats weren't recorded.
So they aren't records?

[schyza]

Reread my post. The "number of playoffs" is not the same and the number of playoff games is different for each player. In order to get clarity and give your "totals" some perspective, the number of games for each player needs to be listed.

Think this is what they are dodging...


Player PO games PO series RS games RS Chips
1. Derek Fisher 259 16 1,287 18 5
2. Tim Duncan 251 18 1,392 19 5
3. Robert Horry 244 16 1,107 16 7
4. LeBron James 239 13 1,231 17 3
5. KAJ 237 18 1,560 20 6
6. Tony Parker 226 17 1,254 18 4
7. Kobe Bryant 220 15 1,346 20 5
8. Manu Ginobili 218 15 1,057 16 4
9. Shaquille O'Neal 216 17 1,207 19 4
10. Scottie Pippen 208 16 1,178 17 6
11. Danny Ainge 193 12 1,042 14 2
Karl Malone 193 19 1,476 19
13. Magic Johnson 190 13 906 13 5
14. Robert Parish 184 16 1,611 21 4
15. Byron Scott 183 13 1,073 14 3
16. John Stockton 182 19 1,504 19
17. Dennis Johnson 180 13 1,100 14 3
18. Michael Jordan 179 13 1,072 15 6
19. Dwyane Wade 177 13 1,054 16 3
Rasheed Wallace 177 14 1,109 16 1



MJ barley cracks the top 20 NBA players in terms of post season games played. 3 more rings in 60 less games then LBJ if we are keeping score. IMO they are all great talents. :cheers:

[Elosha]

If it wasn't for Pippen he would not have 1 ring.

Your player would never have even reached 9 finals, much less lose 6 of them, if he didn't have Wade, Bosh, Kyrie and Love. LeBron's annual trips to the Finals, most of the time just to lose, didn't even really begin until he superteamed, coinciding with a historically weak EC. Perfect storm for him. Without a superteam, LeBron lost over and over, with or without home court advantage. Even with superteams, he lost far more often than not. Only ISH delusional kids think LeBron is GOAT.

Put him top 5, he's got an legit case for that. But GOAT? Only if GOAT is defined by losing.

[Rico2016]

Think this is what they are dodging...


Player PO games PO series RS games RS Chips
1. Derek Fisher 259 16 1,287 18 5
2. Tim Duncan 251 18 1,392 19 5
3. Robert Horry 244 16 1,107 16 7
4. LeBron James 239 13 1,231 17 3
5. KAJ 237 18 1,560 20 6
6. Tony Parker 226 17 1,254 18 4
7. Kobe Bryant 220 15 1,346 20 5
8. Manu Ginobili 218 15 1,057 16 4
9. Shaquille O'Neal 216 17 1,207 19 4
10. Scottie Pippen 208 16 1,178 17 6
11. Danny Ainge 193 12 1,042 14 2
Karl Malone 193 19 1,476 19
13. Magic Johnson 190 13 906 13 5
14. Robert Parish 184 16 1,611 21 4
15. Byron Scott 183 13 1,073 14 3
16. John Stockton 182 19 1,504 19
17. Dennis Johnson 180 13 1,100 14 3
18. Michael Jordan 179 13 1,072 15 6
19. Dwyane Wade 177 13 1,054 16 3
Rasheed Wallace 177 14 1,109 16 1



MJ barley cracks the top 20 NBA players in terms of post season games played. 3 more rings in 60 less games then LBJ if we are keeping score. IMO they are all great talents. :cheers:

Dug yourseld into a hole mentioning MJ played fewer games in equal playoff appearances. Why? Because MJ lost a lot. He only made 6 Finals...THAT is why he played fewer games. He lost in the 1st round 3 times, that's why he scored less. He wasnt consistent enough.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Dug yourseld into a hole mentioning MJ played fewer games in equal playoff appearances. Why? Because MJ lost a lot. He only made 6 Finals...THAT is why he played fewer games. He lost in the 1st round 3 times, that's why he scored less. He wasnt consistent enough.
Lack of greatness at young age (3rd best player in college) + inability to make deep playoff runs consistently + quitting to rest/stink up minor league ball where he spent the majority of his time in the dugout/bench because he rarely was ever on base = disappointing playoff totals


the excuses and tears are hilarious though, so I appreciate the bump :lol

[Shaquille O'Neal]

First of all, Jordan is clearly the GOAT with 6/6, 10 scoring titles, DPOY, etc. Clearly the best on both sides of the ball.


For Lebron to even be in the argument, he'd have to pass the following:


KAJ
Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Bird
Duncan


...which he hasn't yet IMO. All of the above either had better stats per game / season (Wilt), more rings(Russell, KAJ, Duncan, Shaq) or dominated more in their peak (Bird/Shaq).


Jordan dominated per game / per season and won. Has 2x more FMVPs that anyone else. Only played 11 full seasons before 2001 (1984-1998, minus 85-86 (18 games) (93-94 (0 games) and 17 games 94-95). So he won 6x in 11 years. Lebron only 3 in 16+.


If I'm honest Lebron is way down on the list (maybe top 50?) in pure SKILL. He's mostly bigger and stronger than everyone else, but too many "good" players are more skilled than he is. Put Lebron at 200 pounds and 6'6" and make him go to college 3 years. Just another average dude and an above average passer (below average footwork and jump shooter).


I have Kobe honestly just above LBJ, and I hate that guy. But 5 is always more than 3, and Kobe played very well for most of his career. At least Kobe wasn't afraid to take the last shot.


Lebron is 2 bailout teammate shots from being 1-9 in the finals. Has never hit a game winner in the finals in 40+ finals games. Think about that. Only ring without a bailout was a strike shortened season.



If Lebron can get to 5 rings and play 20 years and break all the other stats I could see an argument. Right now he's failed too many times on the big stage IMO.

[mr4speed]

First of all, Jordan is clearly the GOAT with 6/6, 10 scoring titles, DPOY, etc. Clearly the best on both sides of the ball.


For Lebron to even be in the argument, he'd have to pass the following:


KAJ
Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Bird
Duncan


...which he hasn't yet IMO. All of the above either had better stats per game / season (Wilt), more rings(Russell, KAJ, Duncan, Shaq) or dominated more in their peak (Bird/Shaq).


Jordan dominated per game / per season and won. Has 2x more FMVPs that anyone else. Only played 11 full seasons before 2001 (1984-1998, minus 85-86 (18 games) (93-94 (0 games) and 17 games 94-95). So he won 6x in 11 years. Lebron only 3 in 16+.


If I'm honest Lebron is way down on the list (maybe top 50?) in pure SKILL. He's mostly bigger and stronger than everyone else, but too many "good" players are more skilled than he is. Put Lebron at 200 pounds and 6'6" and make him go to college 3 years. Just another average dude and an above average passer (below average footwork and jump shooter).


I have Kobe honestly just above LBJ, and I hate that guy. But 5 is always more than 3, and Kobe played very well for most of his career. At least Kobe wasn't afraid to take the last shot.


Lebron is 2 bailout teammate shots from being 1-9 in the finals. Has never hit a game winner in the finals in 40+ finals games. Think about that. Only ring without a bailout was a strike shortened season.



If Lebron can get to 5 rings and play 20 years and break all the other stats I could see an argument. Right now he's failed too many times on the big stage IMO.

Great post - I enjoyed reading it.:applause:

[SpaceJam2]

First of all, Jordan is clearly the GOAT with 6/6, 10 scoring titles, DPOY, etc. Clearly the best on both sides of the ball.


For Lebron to even be in the argument, he'd have to pass the following:


KAJ
Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Bird
Duncan


...which he hasn't yet IMO. All of the above either had better stats per game / season (Wilt), more rings(Russell, KAJ, Duncan, Shaq) or dominated more in their peak (Bird/Shaq).


Jordan dominated per game / per season and won. Has 2x more FMVPs that anyone else. Only played 11 full seasons before 2001 (1984-1998, minus 85-86 (18 games) (93-94 (0 games) and 17 games 94-95). So he won 6x in 11 years. Lebron only 3 in 16+.


If I'm honest Lebron is way down on the list (maybe top 50?) in pure SKILL. He's mostly bigger and stronger than everyone else, but too many "good" players are more skilled than he is. Put Lebron at 200 pounds and 6'6" and make him go to college 3 years. Just another average dude and an above average passer (below average footwork and jump shooter).


I have Kobe honestly just above LBJ, and I hate that guy. But 5 is always more than 3, and Kobe played very well for most of his career. At least Kobe wasn't afraid to take the last shot.


Lebron is 2 bailout teammate shots from being 1-9 in the finals. Has never hit a game winner in the finals in 40+ finals games. Think about that. Only ring without a bailout was a strike shortened season.



If Lebron can get to 5 rings and play 20 years and break all the other stats I could see an argument. Right now he's failed too many times on the big stage IMO.

MJ is second in everthing and leads in nothing. I present to you exhibit A:

You cannot logically argue against someone 1st in nearly every single individual playoff record.

1st for game winners (12)
1st for steals (420)
1st for Finals Triple Doubles (11)?
1st for points (6911)
1st for consecutive conference wins/Finals trips (8) *not counting 50s Russell

It's a lot...

[mr4speed]

MJ is second in everthing and leads in nothing. I present to you exhibit A:

You cannot logically argue against someone 1st in nearly every single individual playoff record.

1st for game winners (12)
1st for steals (420)
1st for Finals Triple Doubles (11)?
1st for points (6911)
1st for consecutive conference wins/Finals trips (8) *not counting 50s Russell

It's a lot...
It's a lot because LeBron has played the most playoff games.
Let's review the OP's list on a per game basis and here are the leaders-
Jordan at 33.4 points per game.
Shaq at 11.6 rebounds per game
Bird for assists to turnover ratio is at 2.096
Jordan at 2.1 for steals per game
Kareem at 2.4 for blocks per game
LeBron at 3.6 turnovers per game
Compiling totals without looking at production per game is a measurement of longevity more so than a measurement of productivity and efficiency.

[SpaceJam2]

It's a lot because LeBron has played the most playoff games.
Let's review the OP's list on a per game basis and here are the leaders-
Jordan at 33.4 points per game.
Shaq at 11.6 rebounds per game
Bird for assists to turnover ratio is at 2.096
Jordan at 2.1 for steals per game
Kareem at 2.4 for blocks per game
LeBron at 3.6 turnovers per game
Compiling totals without looking at production per game is a measurement of longevity more so than a measurement of productivity and efficiency.

So MJ gets a bonus for not advancing in the playoffs consistently? Nah :lol

Nice try homie :lol

6911 beats 5987

At least he has his weak rings. Be thankful for that.

[schyza]

Dug yourseld into a hole mentioning MJ played fewer games in equal playoff appearances. Why? Because MJ lost a lot. He only made 6 Finals...THAT is why he played fewer games. He lost in the 1st round 3 times, that's why he scored less. He wasnt consistent enough.



Dug a hole how? Maybe the 6 empty finals appearances (3/9) helped pad those postseason numbers for Bron (NOTE: with no hardware to show for those stats). But I am not going to continue