14' Wade got prime Pippen stats (21/5/5) all year thru ECF, so his Finals was fluke

[3ball]

since when does a one-off bad series by the 2nd option prevent a team from winning the series?

especially a 4 HOF team with other stars to fill the void - but Bosh lacked the capacity to step up and produce a 2nd option load because he'd been reduced to spot-up shooter via bron-ball..

And Wade's one-off bad series against the Spurs stems from his poor fit with Lebron, which tends to matter little against a weak East, but shows up in the Finals against better teams/game-planners..

This poor fit that the Spurs exploited is a documented, historical fact - the 13' Spurs used Wade/Lebron's poor shooting against them by coming off one to help on the other's drives, so they would pass to each other for open spot-ups (their weakness).. see the widely-known stats/source here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=476265).

the Spurs clearly perfected the strategy in 2014 to shut down the Heat and Wade... So again, Lebron/Wade's poor fit was the source for the Spurs' strategy and their record win in 14', after nearly winning in 13' as well... this is in addition to Bosh's multi-dimensional reduction
.

[DoctorP]

Heat got their asses waxxxxed

[warriorfan]

Put back to back Kobe on that team and he makes short work of the aging Spurs. There would be no sagging off of Kobe, Wade would be able to get his while we would see improved production from Chris Bosh as well. Kobe doesn

[SouBeachTalents]

This is another example of OP's lack of understanding about basketball. Let's say Wade does average 20 ppg in the Finals, that shit would've made absolutely no difference. I don't know how many times this has to be explained to you, it was the the Heat's DEFENSE that was the issue. The Spurs shot a ridiculous percentage those final 3 games, Wade averaging 2 more baskets a game would have had no impact on the outcome of that series.

[3ball]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Put back to back Kobe on that team and he makes short work of the aging Spurs. There would be no sagging off of Kobe, Wade would be able to get his while we would see improved production from Chris Bosh as well. Kobe doesn

[DoctorP]

exactly..

Other greats that didn't have this issue with Bosh (because they had the skill to shoot better and play/shoot off-ball) would have a chance against the Spurs, as we saw with Dirk's 8 seeded cast that same year (took the 14' Spurs to 7 games).. So the 14' loss is a legit knock on lebron - he had sufficient talent to win that series (the same opponent they beat the previous year)

i really dont see how chuckin' Kobe, with no Gasol to save him, beats this Spur team. Is 40% shooting gonna cut it? doubtful.

[3ball]

This is another example of OP's lack of understanding about basketball. Let's say Wade does average 20 ppg in the Finals, that shit would've made absolutely no difference. I don't know how many times this has to be explained to you, it was the the Heat's DEFENSE that was the issue. The Spurs shot a ridiculous percentage those final 3 games, Wade averaging 2 more baskets a game would have had no impact on the outcome of that series.

no, you don't understand basketball


1) The Spurs' strategy was to come off Wade to help on Lebron's drive and vice-versa, thus forcing them to pass to each other for spot-ups (their weakness) - this didn't fully work in 2013, but the Spurs clearly perfected the strategy in 2014 to shut down the Heat and Wade... So again, Lebron/Wade's poor fit was the source for the Spurs' strategy and their record win in 14', after nearly winning in 13' as well.


2) The Spurs strategy to exploit Lebron/Wade worked in 2014 and the Heat produced 7 points less per 100 possessions in those Finals versus the regular season.. an extra 7 points by the Heat would've made the Spurs work harder and taken the edge off the Spurs attack, so we could have a real series..

But Lebron's long-dribble style has never won the attrition battle versus great ball movement - heck, Stan Van Gundy and Steve Kerr wanted the ball in his hands/didn't double (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif) him because it's easier to guard his long dribble than ball movement - Stan said as much: "we wanted him to go 1-on-1 and get stats in the 09 ECF (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466601)"

[warriorfan]

i really dont see how chuckin' Kobe, with no Gasol to save him, beats this Spur team. Is 40% shooting gonna cut it? doubtful.

Check Kobe

[SouBeachTalents]

no, you don't understand basketball


1) The Spurs' strategy was to come off Wade to help on Lebron's drive and vice-versa, thus forcing them to pass to each other for spot-ups (their weakness) - this didn't fully work in 2013, but the Spurs clearly perfected the strategy in 2014 to shut down the Heat and Wade... So again, Lebron/Wade's poor fit was the source for the Spurs' strategy and their record win in 14', after nearly winning in 13' as well.


2) The Spurs strategy to exploit Lebron/Wade worked in 2014 and the Heat produced 7 points less per 100 possessions in those Finals versus the regular season.. an extra 7 points by the Heat would've made the Spurs work harder and taken the edge off the Spurs attack, so we could have a real series..

But Lebron's long-dribble style has never won the attrition battle versus great ball movement - heck, Stan Van Gundy and Steve Kerr wanted the ball in his hands/didn't double (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif) him because it's easier to guard his long dribble than ball movement - Stan said as much: "we wanted him to go 1-on-1 and get stats in the 09 ECF (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466601)"
Still make absolutely no mention about the Heat's defense :lol You're right bro, Wade averages 2 more buckets the Heat win the Finals

Speaking of Van Gundy & Kerr though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S1Gp2iwos0&t=

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MG8wjJNdf4&t

[3ball]

i really dont see how chuckin' Kobe, with no Gasol to save him, beats this Spur team. Is 40% shooting gonna cut it? doubtful.
Bosh > Gasol

Bosh was all-nba, while gasol wasn't until joining Kobe

so you make my point, thank you..

but unfortunately, lebron couldn't activate Bosh because he's been reduced to spot-up shooter

people blindly forget about Bosh and that lebron's team had the most talent in the league from 2011-2014 (i.e. "not 6, not 7", aka goat dynasty expectations)

[LAmbruh]

Check Kobe’s track record vs the Spurs...No Gasol...No problem, he has two superior players in Wade and Bosh.
yeah Shaq manhandling Duncan was epic

meanwhile.....


https://i.postimg.cc/wjcN8bWJ/ghkrfhujklyuk.png


yikes

[DoctorP]

Check Kobe’s track record vs the Spurs...No Gasol...No problem, he has two superior players in Wade and Bosh.

whos gonna rebound his 60% bricks? :lol

nah

it was a complete ass waxing. Wade could have retired after game 7 and we would have understood. Wade, as we knew him, was DONE.

[RRR3]

LeBron was great through the first 3 rounds of the 11 playoffs so his finals was a fluke.

[3ball]

whos gonna rebound his 60% bricks? :lol

nah

it was a complete ass waxing. Wade could have retired after game 7 and we would have understood. Wade, as we knew him, was DONE.
why isn't reduced Wade's 21/5/5 enough? isn't that what most 2nd options get?

why does lebron need 2nd options that are getting 25+ in the Finals? no one else gets that... why can't he win with the help everyone else gets to win with?

and why won't you address bosh? you claim that Kobe can't win without pau, even though bosh is a similar player.. when this is pointed out, you ignore it and double down.. ur obviously wrong on this and babying lebron like everyone else

[SpaceJam2]

Since you're dumb and easy to bully I'll whip you real quick

Wade put up 15-4-3 with a GmSc of 7.9 as a #2 option.

For reference, here is Pippen in each Finals

91: 17.5
92: 18.1
93: 15.6
96: 13.4
97: 15.1
98: 13.0

What does this say? Pippen's WORST Finals (1998, 13.0 GmSc) is literally almost double Wade's (2014, 7.9)

Furthermore, Pippen outscored the opposing team's #2 option in 5 of 6 Finals. Also Pippen was the defensive anchor of the Chicago Bulls with MJ never having a better DRtg for any of the 6 playoff runs.

Lastly, their is the matter of competition. LeBron beat multiple dynastys while MJ never did once.

You're comparing the 1996 Sonics to the 2014 Spurs? Laughably dumb, but then again, it's you...

Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, Kawhi or Payton, Kemp and Schrempf

This was fun.

Next

[Dray n Klay]

Since you're dumb and easy to bully I'll whip you real quick

Wade up up 15-4-3 with a GmSc of 7.9 as a #2 option.

For reference, here is Pippen in each Finals

91: 17.5
92: 18.1
93: 15.6
96: 13.4
97: 15.1
98: 13.0

What does this say? Pippen's WORST Finals (1998, 13.0 GmSc) is literally almost double Wade's (2014, 7.9)

Furthermore, Pippen outscored the opposing team's #2 option in 5 of 6 Finals. Also Pippen was the defensive anchor of the Chicago Bulls with MJ never having a better DRtg for any of the 6 playoff runs.

Lastly, their is the matter of competition. LeBron beat multiple dynastys while MJ never did once.

You're comparing the 1996 Sonics to the 2014 Spurs? Laughably dumb, but then again, it's you...

Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, Kawhi or Payton, Kemp and Schrempf

This was fun.

Next


Wait.. hold up. Statistically Wade was half as good as Pippens WORST Finals ever??

And this was against a Finals opponent Better than any team MJ faced?


So LeBron had half the help against twice as good competition??? wtf

[3ball]

LeBron was great through the first 3 rounds of the 11 playoffs so his finals was a fluke.
correct - Wade should've been able to beat Dirk with Lebron's 18 on 48%.. that's prime pippen numbers.. plus he had Bosh...

but it's hard to have an effective team on the championship level when you don't fit with lebron because both of your skillsets are narrow ball-dominators

[DoctorP]

why isn't reduced Wade's 21/5/5 enough? isn't that what most 2nd options get?

why does lebron need 2nd options that are getting 25+ in the Finals? no one else gets that... why can't he win with the help everyone else gets to win with?

and why won't you address bosh? you claim that Kobe can't win without pau, even though bosh is a similar player.. when this is pointed out, you ignore it and double down.. ur obviously wrong on this and babying lebron like everyone else

babying lebron? no. im saying that this was such a waxing that kobe would not make a difference.

you just made your anti-lebron pro-kobe agenda clear.

[RRR3]

3ball just said LeBron’s 11 finals was a “fluke”. Oops. Guess you can’t shit on it anymore :oldlol:

[RealSkipBayless]

So the Spurs had 4 HOF with Green and Mills offering elite 3 point shooting and Lebron is supposed to beat that by himself..?

Bosh barely shot any 3's in that series. He wasn't spotting up anywhere... Bosh shot more 3's after Lebron was gone.

[DoctorP]

Wade was trash that finals.... TRASHHHH

[3ball]

Wait.. hold up. Statistically Wade was half as good as Pippens WORST Finals ever??

And this was against a Finals opponent Better than any team MJ faced?


So LeBron had half the help against twice as good competition??? wtf
you don't get it - it's a historical fact that the spurs exploited Lebron/Wade's lack of fit, and that Bosh was marginalized

lebron-ball is causing their weak performance, and the weak fit only shows up and gets exploited in the Finals - weak chemistry/weak team doesn't matter in the weak East

[tpols]

This is another example of OP's lack of understanding about basketball. Let's say Wade does average 20 ppg in the Finals, that shit would've made absolutely no difference. I don't know how many times this has to be explained to you, it was the the Heat's DEFENSE that was the issue. The Spurs shot a ridiculous percentage those final 3 games, Wade averaging 2 more baskets a game would have had no impact on the outcome of that series.


nah thats bullshit...

the heat were extremely competitive for the first couple games and then they laid down and gave up.

Wade somehow looked infinitely better years later in '16 when leading the heat to playoff series wins. (with garbage help)

the fit and comraderie were piss poor by the end of their short stint.

[warriorfan]

Since you're dumb and easy to bully I'll whip you real quick

Wade up up 15-4-3 with a GmSc of 7.9 as a #2 option.

For reference, here is Pippen in each Finals

91: 17.5
92: 18.1
93: 15.6
96: 13.4
97: 15.1
98: 13.0

What does this say? Pippen's WORST Finals (1998, 13.0 GmSc) is literally almost double Wade's (2014, 7.9)

Furthermore, Pippen outscored the opposing team's #2 option in 5 of 6 Finals. Also Pippen was the defensive anchor of the Chicago Bulls with MJ never having a better DRtg for any of the 6 playoff runs.

Lastly, their is the matter of competition. LeBron beat multiple dynastys while MJ never did once.

You're comparing the 1996 Sonics to the 2014 Spurs? Laughably dumb, but then again, it's you...

Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, Kawhi or Payton, Kemp and Schrempf

This was fun.

Next

Thanks for proving that LeBron ball managed to decrease the production of a far superior player in Wade when compared to Scottie Pippen. Find one person who knows two shits about basketball and try to tell them Scottie Pippen is better than D Wade.

LeBron ball = lower production than talent level = needing far superior stacked casts to compete while still ultimately underachieving (3/9)

[RRR3]

nah thats bullshit...

the heat were extremely competitive for the first couple games and then they laid down and gave up.

Wade somehow looked infinitely better years later in '16 when leading the heat to playoff series wins. (with garbage help)

the fit and comraderie were piss poor by the end of their short stint.
Wade looked better when he was healthy?

You don’t say?



Ttrolls :facepalm

[Dray n Klay]

nah thats bullshit...

the heat were extremely competitive for the first couple games and then they laid down and gave up.

Wade somehow looked infinitely better years later in '16 when leading the heat to playoff series wins. (with garbage help)

the fit and comraderie were piss poor by the end of their short stint.

Why did Wade miss the playoffs in 2015?

[SouBeachTalents]

nah thats bullshit...

the heat were extremely competitive for the first couple games and then they laid down and gave up.

Wade somehow looked infinitely better years later in '16 when leading the heat to playoff series wins. (with garbage help)

the fit and comraderie were piss poor by the end of their short stint.
So they gave up and laid down tied 1-1 in the Finals, heading home for 3 of the next 4 games while trying to defend their title :biggums: :oldlol:

[3ball]

babying lebron? no. im saying that this was such a waxing that kobe would not make a difference.

you just made your anti-lebron pro-kobe agenda clear.
no team with prime, 29-year kobe and that much supporting talent would be that horrible

the heat were just a bad team that made it through a really weak East (lebron only averaged 22 ppg in the ECF.. Wade averaged 20)

lebron-ball simply fields weak teams - he either lost or was underdog for 6 of 7 years with superteams from 11-17' - and gets beat by record amount to multiple teams, not just the old Spurs

[tpols]

So they gave up and laid down tied 1-1 in the Finals, heading home for 3 of the next 4 games while trying to defend their title :biggums: :oldlol:


yes... Everybody knew it was over when kawhi flooded them in that first half.

They won the first series by a miracle, and were avalanched in the second. Figured out completely.

They could sense the next "hop".

[RRR3]

So they gave up and laid down tied 1-1 in the Finals, heading home for 3 of the next 4 games while trying to defend their title :biggums: :oldlol:
Ttrolls has never been the same since the 16 finals. He went full retard after LeBron surpassed his hero in FMVPs. Poor fella.

[3ball]

Wade looked better when he was healthy?

You don’t say?



Ttrolls :facepalm
did you read the thread title? the Finals was a FLUKE - Wade played well all year thru the ECF

But his bad fit with lebron showed up in the Finals against championship comp - it's a documented fact (https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6) that the Spurs exploited the weak fit between Lebron/Wade to nearly win in 2013, and perfected it in 2014 to blow the Heat away.. and we already knew about Bosh's multi-dimensional reduction in bron-ball

[RealSkipBayless]

did you read the thread title? the Finals was a FLUKE - Wade played well all year thru the ECF

But his bad fit with lebron showed up in the Finals against championship comp - it's a documented fact (https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6) that the Spurs exploited the weak fit between Lebron/Wade to nearly win in 2013, and perfected it in 2014 to blow the Heat away.. and we already knew about Bosh's multi-dimensional reduction in bron-ball
Or.. and hear me out on this. Lebron's supporting cast just wasn't good. Nor was it in 07, 15, or 18.

[Dray n Klay]

did you read the thread title? the Finals was a FLUKE - Wade played well all year thru the ECF

But his bad fit with lebron showed up in the Finals against championship comp - it's a documented fact (https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6) that the Spurs exploited the weak fit between Lebron/Wade to nearly win in 2013, and perfected it in 2014 to blow the Heat away.. and we already knew about Bosh's multi-dimensional reduction in bron-ball


Why did Wade miss the playoffs next season?

[ImKobe]

Why did Wade miss the playoffs next season?

Heat had a ton of injuries in 2015 with Bosh missing half the season and Wade missing 20+ games.

Why did Wade lead the Heat to ECSF with Bosh out in 2016?

[DoctorP]

Heat had a ton of injuries in 2015 with Bosh missing half the season and Wade missing 20+ games.

Why did Wade lead the Heat to ECSF with Bosh out in 2016?

joe johnson

[3ball]

Or.. and hear me out on this. Lebron's supporting cast just wasn't good. Nor was it in 07, 15, or 18.
timmy/tony/manu were 36/37/32 years old
lebron/bosh/allen were 29/29/36 years old

and kawhi was a 12 ppg role player up until those Finals, aka wasn't considered as good as wade

so when you say the cast "wasn't as good", are we talking a small difference or record difference like the margin of loss?

and anytime a HOF teammate has a fluke bad series, do we automatically say the #1 option didn't have enough help?.. you're simply being results-oriented... the reality is that the Heat easily matched the Spurs' talent and the odds were basically even pre-series.

[RRR3]

3braincells

[RealSkipBayless]

timmy/tony/manu were 36/37/32 years old
lebron/bosh/allen were 29/29/36 years old

and kawhi was a 12 ppg role player up until those Finals, aka wasn't considered as good as wade

so when you say the cast "wasn't as good", are we talking a small difference or record difference like the margin of loss?

and anytime a HOF teammate has a fluke bad series, do we automatically say the #1 option didn't have enough help?.. you're simply being results-oriented... the reality is that the Heat easily matched the Spurs' talent and the odds were basically even pre-series.
So if you replace Lebron with Jordan in that series.. the Heat win?

[tpols]

So if you replace Lebron with Jordan in that series.. the Heat win?


you're analysis is far too myopic.

Wade, jordan, and bosh wouldve filled the not 5, not 6, not 7 expectations.

No flopping, no ill fit, no buddy buddy stuff.

THEY would have been the favorites. in every single series.

I swear you guys are clowns man.

[3ball]

3braincells


you're just results-oriented - you probably picked the Heat before the series, and if you didn't, half the people still did

- young bosh matches old Duncan
- Lebron takes Kawhi
- 32-yr Wade and 32-yr Parker are about equal
- Allen and Manu are about equal


so the talent levels were equal - but we know wade/lebron's bad fit showed up/was exploited on the championship level in 2013 (https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6), as was his bad fit with Bosh.. the Spurs clearly fine-tuned their strategy to blow sway the unadjustable heat/bron-ball in 14'





3braincells


The Spurs' strategy was to come off Wade to help on Lebron's drive and vice-versa, thus forcing them to pass to each other for spot-ups (their weakness) - this didn't fully work in 2013, but the Spurs clearly perfected the strategy in 2014 to shut down the Heat and Wade... So again, Lebron/Wade's poor fit was the source for the Spurs' strategy and their record win in 14', after nearly winning in 13' as well.

The Spurs strategy to exploit Lebron/Wade's bad fit (and Bosh's) caused the Heat to produce 7 points less per 100 possessions in those Finals versus the regular season.. an extra 7 points by the Heat would've made the Spurs work harder and taken the edge off the Spurs attack, so we could have a real series..

But Lebron's long-dribble style has never won the attrition battle versus great ball movement - heck, Stan Van Gundy and Steve Kerr wanted the ball in his hands/didn't double (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif) him because it's easier to guard his long dribble than ball movement - Stan said as much: "we wanted him to go 1-on-1 and get stats in the 09 ECF (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466601)"
.

[SouBeachTalents]

So if you replace Lebron with Jordan in that series.. the Heat win?
3ball's already on record saying Jordan wins 10-12 titles in LeBron's place :lol

[ImKobe]

So if you replace Lebron with Jordan in that series.. the Heat win?

Of course they do. Jordan doesn't choke and cramp up in Game 1 and the Bulls go to Chicago up 2 - 0 with 3 straight home games. He wouldn't get punked by a young Kawhi like Bron did.

[3ball]

3ball's already on record saying Jordan wins 10-12 titles in LeBron's place :lol
MJ three-peats from 11-13'

I think we all agree on that

MJ wouldn't retire this time because a 3-peat wouldn't exceed Shaq like it did Magic and Bird.. MJ would enter the 14' Finals as prohibitive favorites:

young Bosh > old Duncan... MJ > Kawhi... 32-yr Wade > 32-yr Parker... Allen = Manu

MJ never lost with favorable matchups like that, and MJ's teamwork with a veteran Finals team would match or exceed the Spurs (that's why Bosh and Wade wouldn't be marginalized)

[AirBonner]

MJ has never been an underdog in a finals

[RealSkipBayless]

you're analysis is far too myopic.

Wade, jordan, and bosh wouldve filled the not 5, not 6, not 7 expectations.

No flopping, no ill fit, no buddy buddy stuff.

THEY would have been the favorites. in every single series.

I swear you guys are clowns man.
So Wade and MJ would be a better fit than Lebron and Wade. And as a result the Heat would win the series.

Interesting opinion. Thank you.

[3ball]

So Wade and MJ would be a better fit than Lebron and Wade. And as a result the Heat would win the series.

Interesting opinion. Thank you.
the team was expected to win 6 and 7 championships - because obviously, people didn't know that wade/bosh didn't fit with Lebron

Wade and Bosh would both fit better with MJ, so the team would fulfill the expectation and be juggernaut/favorites every year.. that's what was expected, but the lack of fit between Lebron/Wade/Bosh prevented that

[warriorfan]

the team was expected to win 6 and 7 championships - because obviously, people didn't know that wade/bosh didn't fit with Lebron

Wade and Bosh would both fit better with MJ, so the team would fulfill the expectation and be juggernaut/favorites every year.. that's what was expected, but the lack of fit between Lebron/Wade/Bosh prevented that

How soon some forget. LeBron, Wade, and Bosh were respectively 1st, 2nd, and 4th ranked in PER for the entire league. There was the decision, the show where LeBron said the

[Hey Yo]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Check Kobe

[3ball]

Kobe never played the Spurs in the postseason w/o Shaq or Pau.

He played 1 series against the Spurs in 2008 (with Pau) and won. Wow, that's some great huge track record..... :oldlol:
He mostly beat the Spurs while Lebron mostly lost

and kobe destroyed the spurs in 08', while Lebron barely beat the spurs once, with 3 HOF teammates (and we all know he should've lost that series if not for ray allen)

[Hey Yo]

He mostly beat the Spurs while Lebron mostly lost

and kobe destroyed the spurs in 08', while Lebron barely beat the spurs once, with 3 HOF teammates (and we all know he should've lost that series if not for ray allen)
Kobe's 1-0 against the Spurs and then lost in the Finals that same postseason

LeBron 1-2 while beating the Spurs for the Championship that year.

Game 7 2013, Ray Allen, Bosh and Mike Miller all held scoreless in a combined 66.18MP.

Lemme know, chico when Kobe still wins a game 7 with that lack of production from his teammates.

[3ball]

Kobe's 1-0 against the Spurs and then lost in the Finals that same postseason

LeBron 1-2 while beating the Spurs for the Championship that year.

Game 7 2013, Ray Allen, Bosh and Mike Miller all held scoreless in a combined 66.18MP.

Lemme know, chico when Kobe still wins a game 7 with that lack of production from his teammates.
Let me know when Kobe wins as the #1 option when he gets 16 on 39% in the first 3 games like Lebron did in the 13' Finals

It's a testament to Lebron's all-time cast that they avoided a 0-3 deficit while Lebron shat the bed.. he was choking worse than 2011 but Ray Allen saved him this time..

ultmately, Lebron was a net negative for the series (heat lost with him on the floor - that never happened to kobe)

[RealSkipBayless]

the team was expected to win 6 and 7 championships - because obviously, people didn't know that wade/bosh didn't fit with Lebron

Wade and Bosh would both fit better with MJ, so the team would fulfill the expectation and be juggernaut/favorites every year.. that's what was expected, but the lack of fit between Lebron/Wade/Bosh prevented that
Yep there were high expectations until Wade broke down before our eyes.

Lebron didn't have all the benefits that MJ did. GOAT Coach + defensive/all-nba help.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]I guess with the offseason ending soon it's time to dump this info into the wild. I dread making this thread but, I've had a few posters get at me for saying Mj more times than not enjoyed a talent advantage throughout his title runs. This will become a growing data list over time perhaps. Let's take a look at some interesting facts surrounding Michael Jordan's comp:


In his 6 finals runs, of those 24 series the following occured:


[B][COLOR="DarkGreen"]ALLSTARS

[Hey Yo]

Let me know when Kobe wins as the #1 option when he gets 16 on 39% in the first 3 games like Lebron did in the 13' Finals

It's a testament to Lebron's all-time cast that they avoided a 0-3 deficit while Lebron shat the bed.. he was choking worse than 2011 but Ray Allen saved him this time..

ultmately, Lebron was a net negative for the series (heat lost with him on the floor - that never happened to kobe)
2 of the first 3 games each team blew each other out..... those cancel each other out.

The series started at game 4. The Spurs had a 3-2 series lead after 5.

No chance Heat win game 7 if James shoots 6-24 from the field like Kobe did.

[SouBeachTalents]

2 of the first 3 games each team blew each other out..... those cancel each other out.

The series started at game 4. The Spurs had a 3-2 series lead after 5.

No chance Heat win game 7 if James shoots 6-24 from the field like Kobe did.
Hell, he needed 37 on 70%TS to win an extremely competitive game

[3ball]

Yep there were high expectations until Wade broke down before our eyes.


wade having an off-series has nothing to do with bosh's marginalization, or the team's perennial underdog/loser status despite having a super-team -they either lost or were underdogs in 3 of 4 Finals, aka a far lesser team than they were expected to be..

you're just making excuses for a SKILL-BASED lack of fit.. A literal skill deficit is what caused Lebron to not fit great with Wade/Bosh, and the team's brand of ball to be inferior to their peers in the Finals





Lebron didn't have all the benefits that MJ did. GOAT Coach + defensive/all-nba help.


Lebron lost the 2009 ECF with the #3 defense and 18 on 38% from his sidekick - that's better defensive help and sidekick offense than MJ had in all these series that he won:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=476731


So you're just lying when you say that Lebron had less help - he had better defensive help overall (better rim protection, more good rebounders/banger, and more athletic guards) and almost always had a better offensive sidekick

And he had a 3rd star for his 3 rings, while MJ won his first 3-peat without a 3rd star

Finally, MJ was the goat candidate that won with a 1st-time, rookie coach in 1991 - Phil wasn't coach of the year like Mike Brown was in 2009.






Lebron didn't have all the benefits that MJ did. GOAT Coach + defensive/all-nba help.


sdot's data is meaningless unless it's compared to Lebron's, or someone else's.

you can't respond to the facts I posted, so you post some meaningless list of stats.. sad..

again, the spurs were the only ones to exploit the poor fit between Wade/Lebron, as SB Nation documented with stats and endless video footage.. that hurt Wade's production as much as anything

[3ball]

Hell, he needed 37 on 70%TS to win an extremely competitive game
37 points? that's all he needed?

In 1993, the Suns and Bulls both averaged 113.0 ppg and 106.7 ORtg - so every ounce of Jordan's 41 ppg was needed, yet you're crooning over 37 for a single game despite him sucking the rest of the series and being saved by teammates

(teammates saved him from an 0-3 deficit while he averaged 16 on 39%, and then Ray Allen saved him in Game 6 from having shit career resume).

Lebron fans are ridiculously delusional and in denial about their fraud's overratedness.

[3ball]

From SB Nation (https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6) in 2013 Finals (after game 6):

O-Rtg/D-Rtg with LBJ/Wade: 100.8/112.7 ... O-Rtg/D-Rtg with LBJ/NO Wade: 131.7/89.5

"the Spurs were using each Wade and Lebron's so-so perimeter shooting against them, cheating off of one to prevent the other from doing what he wants to do"

https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6



The Spurs were cheating off Lebron to help on Wade and vice-versa, thus encouraging them to pass to each other for spot-ups (both players' weakness).. the article shows video after video of the Spurs exploiting the lack of fit/limited skillsets/weak shooting of Lebron and Wade.. :eek:

So the lack of optimal fit between Lebron and Wade was a real thing, proven by the eye test and many stats.. Wade's assists also cratered alongside Lebron.

the limited skillset of Lebron and Wade (dribble-intensive weak shooters) ultimately made the Heat a worse team than many other guys in their place, so that DOES knock them down compared to other guys - not everyone passes them, but some do.

Keep in mind that Lebron's teammates avoided an 0-3 deficit in the 2013 Finals while he averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games, and 23 on 43% thru 6 - it was 2011 all over again, but Ray Allen saved him this time.. Lebron was a net negative for the series (heat lost with him on the floor)..

[3ball]

2014 Wade was declining, but only to prime Pippen's production - 21/5/5 on great efficiency in regular season and thru ECF

So Lebron had prime Pippen production from his 2nd option and 29-year old, peak Bosh... and HOF Ray Allen.. a 4-HOF team

yet he got beat by record amount.. :yaohappy