09' Lebron lost with #3 defense and 18 on 38% from sidekick - MJ always won with that

[3ball]

.
MJ had worse than the #3 defense and weak offensive stats from his sidekick in all these series wins:



Pippen's stats:


1988 RD 1 vs. CLE:. 10.6 on 47.1%

1988 ECSF vs. CLE:. 10.6 on 47.1%

1989 RD 1 vs. CLE:. 15.0 on 39.8%

1990 ECF. vs. DET:. 16.6 on 42.8%

1992 ECSF vs NYN:. 16.0 on 40.2%

1993 RD 1 vs. ATL:. 15.0 on 42.2%

1995 ECSF vs ORL:. 19.0 on 40.9%

1996 ECSF vs NYN:. 15.6 on 33.0%
1996 FINAL vs SEA:. 15.7 on 34.3%

1997 RD 1 vs WAS:. 16.7 on 38.3%
1997 ECF. vs. MIA:. 16.8 on 41.7%

1998 ECFS vsN IND:. 16.6 on 39.2%
1998 FINAL vs UTA:. 15.7 on 41.0%

[Uncle Drew]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1988.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1995.html

[3ball]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1988.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1995.html
In 1988, MJ won 50 games and the 3 seed with a 14/10 PF as his 2nd option - that equals Lebron's 3rd option when he missed the playoffs in 2005 (Drew Gooden averaged 14/10, while all-star Zydrunas was 2nd option)

So Lebron's teams were always more stacked than MJ's

[AirBonner]

In 1986 MJ played with three other 20ppg scorers

[3ball]

In 1986 MJ played with three other 20ppg scorers
No he didn't - he only played with Woolridge, who was nowhere near a top 3 forward in the conference (all-star), whereas Zydrunas was a 2-time all-star, and therefore better relative to his comp than Woolridge

[3ball]

Lebron lost this series despite great personal stats because he couldn't command a double-team, and the Magic could stay at home and lock his teammates down.

Stan said as much: "we wanted him to go 1-on-1 and get stats in the 09 ECF (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466601)"

Lebron's long-dribble style simply doesn't make good playoff teams work sufficiently on defense/wear them down, which would blunt their offensive attack - opponents are comfortable defensively vs bron-ball, so they have max capacity to go off offensively

Ultimately, Lebron's long-dribble style has never won the attrition battle versus great ball movement - again, Stan Van Gundy and Steve Kerr wanted the ball in his hands/didn't double (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif) him because it's easier to guard his long dribble than ball movement

[SpaceJam2]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1988.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1995.html

Cooked :lol :lol

[3ball]

Cooked :lol :lol
pippen could never lead a lottery cast to 50 wins... :facepalm:.. he needed a 3-peat system to barely make the 2nd round - so the guy's a joke - give prime Wade, Kyrie, or AD a 3-peat system, and they do a shit-ton better than the 2nd round.. infact, they all made the 2nd round without that and with shit casts

Ultimately, MJ elevated a 2nd Round team to 3-peat status - think about that for a second... So MJ equals a 3-peat, and all he needed was the least offensive help ever (a shit-scoring 2nd option and a 4-point power forward)

[RealSkipBayless]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1988.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1995.html
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[3ball]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
What's the point of posting that?..

Pippen was barely .500 until MJ came back and made the team respectable

[SpaceJam]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1988.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1995.html

Lock it up Mods.

[3ball]

.
Thread Cliffs:


The 97' Heat, 98' Pacers, and 98' Jazz were all better than the 09' Magic, yet MJ beat them with lower ranked defenses and less offense from sidekick than Lebron had in that series

so Lebron has no excuse for losing in 09' if he wants to be compared to the GOAT - MJ always won with the help Lebron had in that series (#3 defense and 18 ppg on 38% from sidekick)

[2ball]

Op never got a legit reply. LeBron had the #3 defense and a top 3-point shooting team (favors LeBron ball) and he still got destroyed

[Rico2016]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1988.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1995.html

Shut it down

[light]

Pippen is one of the greatest players in history and a better defender than Jordan.

Nothing to see here.

Carry on.

[Rico2016]

Pippen is one of the greatest players in history and a better defender than Jordan.

Nothing to see here.

Carry on.

Decimation

[3ball]

In 1988, MJ won 50 games and the 3 seed with a 14/10 PF as his 2nd option - that equals Lebron's 3rd option when he missed the playoffs in 2005 (Drew Gooden averaged 14/10, while all-star Zydrunas was 2nd option)

So Lebron's teams were always more stacked than MJ's

Muuuurdeerr

[Akeem34TheDream]

Muuuurdeerr

:roll:
You don't write that to your own comment.
:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1988.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1995.html

3ball caught lying again? Not surprised.

[3ball]

3ball caught lying again? Not surprised.

No he's lying and you're lying on top of his lie

88' MJ didn't have a 2nd scorer when he lost to Pistons

And 95' wasn't a full season, so it isn't comparable to 09'

MJ was also the underdog, not one of the 5 biggest favorites in playoff history like lebron vs dwight

[ELITEpower23]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1988.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1995.html

That ended quickly.

[ELITEpower23]

Also, Pippen is one of the greatest players in history and a better defender than Jordan.

Nothing to see here.

Carry on.

[3ball]

That ended quickly.

Show me where MJ got 18 on 38% from a teammate in 88'... I'll wait

And 95' wasn't a full season

And underdog both times

Carry on

[ELITEpower23]

Show me where MJ got 18 on 38% from a teammate in 88'... I'll wait

And 95' wasn't a full season

And underdog both times

Carry on

Are you really this dense? Here is a 3rd to add to the list

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1986-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-celtics.html

Orlando Woolridge did 20 on 40%

Now concede or recieve more embarrassment.

[Jordan96]

Show me where MJ got 18 on 38% from a teammate in 88'... I'll wait

And 95' wasn't a full season

And underdog both times

Carry on
Jordan won with 4 and 2

[3ball]

Are you really this dense? Here is a 3rd to add to the list

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1986-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-celtics.html

Orlando Woolridge did 20 on 40%

Now concede or recieve more embarrassment.

Bulls didn't have #3 defense in 86'

So you're 0-3.. worse than lebron finals record, so really bad

Again, MJ never lost with #3 defense and 18 ppg from sidekick in full season... He infact won many series like that... Only lebron loses with that help (#3 defense and 18 ppg sidekick)

[1987_Lakers]

Are you really this dense? Here is a 3rd to add to the list

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1986-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-celtics.html

Orlando Woolridge did 20 on 40%

Now concede or recieve more embarrassment.

Body bagged.

[Roundball_Rock]

Are you really this dense? Here is a 3rd to add to the list

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1986-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-celtics.html

Orlando Woolridge did 20 on 40%

Now concede or recieve more embarrassment.

Don't forget when Oakley went 20/15 in the 87' playoffs too.

[3ball]

Don't forget when Oakley went 20/15 in the 87' playoffs too.

What about defense those years

Thread title says #3 defense

[ELITEpower23]

Don't forget when Oakley went 20/15 in the 87' playoffs too.

You know what it is: ANOTHER ONE

https://media.giphy.com/media/9JADZJpiRRgUVDWiWs/giphy.gif

[3ball]

You know what it is: ANOTHER ONE

https://media.giphy.com/media/9JADZJpiRRgUVDWiWs/giphy.gif


Thread title says #3 defense

Keep posting wrong shit and ill keep correcting you..

[ELITEpower23]

Thread title says #3 defense

Keep posting wrong shit and ill keep correcting you..

Don't be mad and create weird caveats that dont make sense. You tried, didnt work. Now go log onto 2ball.

[Roundball_Rock]

Bulls had a top 3 defense only three times with MJ there--88', 96', 98'. In 95' they were #2 but hard to give MJ credit since he played only 17 games and the Bulls defense did slightly worse with MJ (they gave up 96.6 points without MJ, 97.1 with MJ).

The Bulls defenses, other than the outlier of 88', were not good until 91' when Pippen and Grant came into their own defensively.

[3ball]

Bulls had a top 3 defense only three times with MJ there--88', 96', 98'. In 95' they were #2 but hard to give MJ credit since he played only 17 games and the Bulls defense did slightly worse with MJ (they gave up 96.6 points without MJ, 97.1 with MJ).

The Bulls defenses, other than the outlier of 88', were not good until 91' when Pippen and Grant came into their own defensively.

Exactly.. 80's MJ had less defensive help than 00's Lebron

But here's the rub - MJ had far better offensive impact than lebron - he had goat offenses and lebron never did

The goat offenses were impressive because the defense didn't drop off... MJ enabled a goat 2-way team (goat offense and goat defense - no drop off in either area - the goat 2-way player because only MJ allowed goat team offense with goat team defense)