Mike Brown 2009 COY > rookie coach Phil Jackson in 90/91

[3ball]

- 1st time coach Phil Jackson won a ring after inheriting an ECF contender and near-Finals team

- Brown was a Finals veteran from his 07' run, and was now winning 66 games and the 1 seed with Mo Williams leading the cast

Conclusion: Mike Brown is still in the league and his strategies are still working, while Phil was lucky to coach MJ/Shaq/Kobe so his funky offense could work (it had zero championship success on the professional level before that)
.

[3ball]

do you guys realize that Phil got the triangle offense from his coach Bill Fitch at North Dakota State?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGY8BPd9n40&t=0m20s


It was a little-known offense with zero championship success on the professional level

these facts are too much for most people who have listened to the group think on ESPN too long...

Ultimately, Phil Jackson won a ring after inheriting an ECF contender/near-Finals team and is lucky that MJ accepted his funky, no-dribble triangle.. if MJ had rejected it, we'd never have heard of Phil - Phil can thank MJ for giving him a career

[SpaceJam]

Rings without Phil Jackson
Michael Jordan - 0
LeBron James - 3

[MrFonzworth]

Bruh just said Mike Brown > Phil:biggums:

[3ball]

Rings without Phil Jackson
Michael Jordan - 0
LeBron James - 3
Lebron rejected coaching from every coach he ever had, including Walton (https://sports.yahoo.com/lebron-james-reportedly-ignoring-luke-waltons-play-calls-nobodys-surprise-210514450.html), Lue (http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/lebron-james-attitude-listen-to-tyronne-lue-cavs-heat-david-blatt/hjmyp8w984gi1xkzex534zc19), Blatt (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-david-blatt-rift), and Spolestra (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-miami-heat-news-0402-20150401-story.html)

He's never accepted coaching and always ran lebron-ball instead - so the next Phil Jackson wasn't allowed

[SpaceJam]

Lebron rejected coaching from every coach he ever had, including Walton (https://sports.yahoo.com/lebron-james-reportedly-ignoring-luke-waltons-play-calls-nobodys-surprise-210514450.html), Lue (http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/lebron-james-attitude-listen-to-tyronne-lue-cavs-heat-david-blatt/hjmyp8w984gi1xkzex534zc19), Blatt (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-david-blatt-rift), and Spolestra (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-miami-heat-news-0402-20150401-story.html)

He's never accepted coaching and always ran lebron-ball instead - so the next Phil Jackson wasn't allowed

Rings without Phil Jackson
Michael Jordan - 0
LeBron James - 3

[3ball]

Bruh just said Mike Brown > Phil:biggums:
Who was Phil Jackson in 1990/1991?

How could a first-time, nobody coach be better than the COY and veteran Finals coach?

Phil simply inherited a ECF veteran team - a near-Finals team - and he's lucky MJ accepted his triangle offense, otherwise Phil would be nothing.. probably an insurance salesperson by now

[egokiller]

le***** stans seething right now over the realization that PJ wasn't as good of a coach as Mike Brown. That feeling once again of knowing MJ did more with less even at the coach position. Amazing! :applause:

[Round Mound]

You are going to far 3-ball. :rolleyes:

[DoctorP]

stop sucking the goat dick

[SouBeachTalents]

Next threads

Tyronn Lue > Phil Jackson

Norris Cole > Pippen

Joel Anthony > Rodman

[ShawkFactory]

Yikes.

One of your weakest.

You

[SpaceJam2]

Bruh just said Mike Brown > Phil:biggums:

:lol

And THIS is why he was banned on Real GM in 4 posts :lol

[nayte]

I know it's a 3ball thread but from what I can remember there was a lot of pressure on young Phil. Maybe wrong.blaze will probably remember better

[AirBonner]

Phil won 5 chips without MJ

[bullettooth]

Rings with Phil Jackson
Michael Jordan - 6

Rings with all coaches
LeBron James - 3

Good observation.

[TheImmortal]

Phil Jackson is just not that good of a coach.. Replace him with Frank Vogal if he's as good as these Branturds think he is.


Phil barely made any ingame adjustments

Didn't do any timeouts


Kobe's highest assist seasons were in 05 and 2013.. both seasons without Phil. Triangle offense doesn't facilitate (no pun intended) to high outputs from their star player.. It's called equal opportunity offense for a reason.. You think LeStatpadder would put up with that? LOL

Plus he didn't coddle his stars and would write books about them.. I don't see how LeBron and his posse would cope with him at the helm.. Bran as usual would LeQuit his way out.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Brandon Ingram has the same number of Championships as MJ without PJ.

[3ball]

Brandon Ingram has the same number of Championships as MJ without PJ.
you thought ingram was trash and inferior to young Pippen

so you have no credibility

[3ball]

You are going to far 3-ball. :rolleyes:
what made rookie Phil, who lost in the ECF just like Doug Collins, better than COY Mike Brown

I'll wait

ditto in 1991, when he was still basically a rookie coach, and Jordan's 32 PER led the way

waiting..

[3ball]

MJ was the GOAT candidate in 1990, while Phil Jackson was a 1st-time, nobody coach.. Phil inherited a team that was already on the cusp of the Finals - Doug Collins took the Pistons to 6 games in 1989, despite 9 ppg from Pippen, who basically quit once the series was tied at 2-2.. Similarly, Phil lost in 1990 because Pippen essentially quit when the series was tied ("migraine")..

The historical record shows that Phil or the triangle never won without Jordan or his 'clone' (the late, great Kobe).. The triangle put role players in optimal spots, but it still needed a bailout on many possessions, and within the offense - so quick bailouts (usually jumpers) with few dribbles.. Accordingly, the triangle was a little-known offense for 50 years until it met the goat bailout artists - then it won 11 times in 18 years.

Most importantly, people don't realize that the triangle didn't allow significant live-dribbling - there was no point guard role.. If frontcourt ball-dominators like Lebron or Luka are pounding the rock and doing their thing, then the triangle isn't being run. So Phil can't shut down their game and piss them off by introducing the triangle... However, MJ was already an off-guard and skilled enough jumpshooter and post player for Phil to try it - Michael eventually accepted it and invented the footwork needed to average 30 in the triangle.

Ultimately, Jordan's highest usage playoffs outside the 1st Round were 92', 97', and 98' - all championship runs - he also averaged 36/7/8 in the 91-93' Finals.. So he didn't "tone it down" to win - he simply proved that his unprecedented method of winning (scoring champ carry-jobs) was the most dominant way to win (6/6).

Finally, the key difference in Jordan and Lebron's game is as follows: Jordan's jumpshooting and off-ball game is partially assisted by teammates, which elevates/develops young ball-handlers like Pippen, Ingram or Hughes - so even Jordan's high-scoring games are partially assisted by teammates (thus elevating them), while Lebron's unassisted, ball-dominant skillset reduces teammates to spot-up shooter.. aka Jordan's fundamentals and elite jumpshooting skill elevated teammates, while Lebron's simpler, ball-dominant, AAU, playground style reduces teammates to spot-up shooter.. Jordan was a goat assist target and fielded high-assist teams, while Lebron hogs the assists and fields low-assist teams that get massively out-assisted in his Finals losses.

By the way, Pippen averaged 17.6 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs, along with 11 ppg for the 99-03' Playoffs and horrible in the 88-90' Playoffs.. He also averaged 21.7 on 40% in the 94' 2nd Round, and 19.0 on 40% in the 95' 2nd Round.. In the 92' 2nd Round, he was destroyed by X-man and nearly caused a massive upset loss.. Only MJ could've beaten a great team like that with 16 on 40% from his sidekick.. We all remember MJ saving Pippen from X-man in Game 7 (face-to-face confrontation with X-man).

MJ beat many top 5 SRS teams with 16 on 40% from Pippen including the 98' ECF, 98' Finals, 96' Finals, 97' ECF, and the historic upset against the #1 SRS in 1989 (Cleveland).. Otoh, Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing).. He lacks the additional jumpshooting required of tough carry-jobs, and he can't really win with high scoring - high scoring from lebron is incredibly dribble-intensive, which loses to superior brands of basketball (ball movement).. Stan Van Gundy once said "we wanted him to dribble and get stats"..

[SouBeachTalents]

MJ was the GOAT candidate in 1990, while Phil Jackson was a 1st-time, nobody coach.. Phil inherited a team that was already on the cusp of the Finals - Doug Collins took the Pistons to 6 games in 1989, despite 9 ppg from Pippen, who basically quit once the series was tied at 2-2.. Similarly, Phil lost in 1990 because Pippen essentially quit when the series was tied ("migraine")..

The historical record shows that Phil or the triangle never won without Jordan or his 'clone' (the late, great Kobe).. The triangle put role players in optimal spots, but it still needed a bailout on many possessions. So it was a little-known offense for 50 years until it met the goat bailout artists - then it won 11 times in 18 years.

Most importantly, people don't realize that the triangle didn't allow significant live-dribbling - there was no point guard role.. If frontcourt ball-dominators like Lebron or Luka are pounding the rock and doing their thing, then the triangle isn't being run. So Phil can't shut down their game and piss them off by introducing the triangle... However, MJ was already an off-guard and skilled enough jumpshooter and post player for Phil to try it - Michael eventually accepted it and invented the footwork needed to average 30 in the triangle.

Ultimately, Jordan's highest usage playoffs outside the 1st Round were 92', 97', and 98' - all championship runs - he also averaged 36/7/8 in the 91-93' Finals.. So he didn't "tone it down" to win - he simply proved that his unprecedented method of winning (scoring champ carry-jobs) was the most dominant way to win (6/6).

Finally, the key difference in Jordan and Lebron's game is as follows: Jordan's jumpshooting and off-ball game is partially assisted by teammates, which elevates/develops young ball-handlers like Pippen, Ingram or Hughes - so even Jordan's high-scoring games are partially assisted by teammates (thus elevating them), while Lebron's unassisted, ball-dominant skillset reduces teammates to spot-up shooter.. aka Jordan's fundamentals and elite jumpshooting skill elevated teammates, while Lebron's simpler, ball-dominant, AAU, playground style reduces teammates to spot-up shooter.. Jordan was a goat assist target and fielded high-assist teams, while Lebron hogs the assists and fields low-assist teams that get massively out-assisted in his Finals losses.

By the way, Pippen averaged 17.6 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs, along with 11 ppg for the 99-03' Playoffs and horrible in the 88-90' Playoffs.. He also averaged 21.7 on 40% in the 94' 2nd Round, and 19.0 on 40% in the 95' 2nd Round.. In the 92' 2nd Round, he was destroyed by X-man and nearly caused a massive upset loss.. Only MJ could've beaten a great team like that with 16 on 40% from his sidekick.. We all remember MJ saving Pippen from X-man in Game 7 (face-to-face confrontation with X-man).

MJ beat many top 5 SRS teams with 16 on 40% from Pippen including the 98' ECF, 98' Finals, 96' Finals, 97' ECF, and the historic upset against the #1 SRS in 1989 (Cleveland).. Otoh, Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing).. He lacks the additional jumpshooting required of tough carry-jobs, and he can't really win with high scoring - high scoring from lebron is incredibly dribble-intensive, which loses to superior brands of basketball (ball movement).. Stan Van Gundy once said "we wanted him to dribble and get stats"..
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/US_1-9.svg

[HoopsNY]

The Lakers won just 34 games without Phil in 2005 and missed the playoffs. Phil returns and the team wins 45 games and Kobe stops shooting in the second half to blow a chance at advancing into the second round.

Chicago lost MJ and Phil coached a 55 win team, coming within one game of making the ECF.

Stfu already.

[3ball]

The Lakers won just 34 games without Phil in 2005 and missed the playoffs. Phil returns and the team wins 45 games and Kobe stops shooting in the second half to blow a chance at advancing into the second round.

Chicago lost MJ and Phil coached a 55 win team, coming within one game of making the ECF.

Stfu already.


Goat candidate Jordan had the Bulls knocking on the door before rookie Phil got there, and 95' Jordan returned to a crumbled version of what he had built.

The 95' Bulls were a bummy, .500 ballclub - MJ immediately carried them to 13-4 and 3-peated in his first full seasons back.

Wtf does Phil have to do with it?.. He won nothing without Jordan (or his clone)

[lakerstekkenn]

do you guys realize that Phil got the triangle offense from his coach Bill Fitch at North Dakota State?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGY8BPd9n40&t=0m20s


It was a little-known offense with zero championship success on the professional level

these facts are too much for most people who have listened to the group think on ESPN too long...

Ultimately, Phil Jackson won a ring after inheriting an ECF contender/near-Finals team and is lucky that MJ accepted his funky, no-dribble triangle.. if MJ had rejected it, we'd never have heard of Phil - Phil can thank MJ for giving him a career

The Triangle is a Center dominant offense that runs through a Center with incredible court vision passing and post up game the offense was built for Shaq, this is a read the defense offense.

How many teams have dominant Centers with incredible passing abilities that can post up regularly and read the defense ? not many especially today's NBA Embid, Yanny are two gifted big men; the Triangle would work wonders for these two especially if they have scoring guards or dominant three point shooters because the Triangle spreads the floor creating space to the Center and open lanes for the slashers, but teams don't run this offense because it takes the ability to read and react to certain defense plus they don't have a dominant Center Power Forward that a gifted post player and could pass like a point guard.

The system works but you need the players to make it work, just having a slow clumsy big man won't work with the Triangle offense.

[lakerstekkenn]

The Lakers won just 34 games without Phil in 2005 and missed the playoffs. Phil returns and the team wins 45 games and Kobe stops shooting in the second half to blow a chance at advancing into the second round.

Chicago lost MJ and Phil coached a 55 win team, coming within one game of making the ECF.

Stfu already.

Kobe probably was injured or lost his legs because of carrying that team, we have seen this before certain players just become flat because of poor energy not legs the regular season just takes to much out of you plus injuries that we don't know about.