Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?

[Lebron23]

Do they win the championship? Derozan's best statistical season in his career. Bulls won 55 games with Pete Myers replacing Jordan.

[Uncle Drew]

They'd go 72-10.

[Real14]

It would be the bulls and the rockets in the finals.

[Uncle Drew]

It would be the bulls and the rockets in the finals.
Whatever the outcome would be of that series, DeRozan should be praised for not being afraid of Hakeem and ducking him (unlike someone else).

[Real14]

Whatever the outcome would be of that series, DeRozan should be praised for not being afraid of Hakeem and ducking him (unlike someone else).
Yea DeRozan would of never done that.

[3ball]

.
Derozan is far below Drexler, let alone Jordan:


Regular Season

DREXLER:.. 20.4.. 6.1.. 5.6.. 54.7 ts.. 114 ortg.. 21.1 PER.. 0.175 ws/48... 6.0 bpm.. 75.6 vorp
DEROZAN:. 19.9.. 4.3.. 3.4.. 53.6 ts.. 109 ortg.. 17.9 PER.. 0.113 ws/48.. -0.5 bpm.. 10.0 vorp


Playoffs

DREXLER:.. 20.4.. 6.9.. 6.1.. 53.2 ts.. 113 ortg.. 19.7 PER.. 0.134 ws/48... 5.9 bpm.. 11.0 vorp
DEROZAN:. 21.9.. 4.6.. 3.6.. 50.3 ts.. 103 ortg.. 16.7 PER.. 0.052 ws/48.. -1.8 bpm.. 0.1 vorp



and drexler > 07' and 11' Lebron:


Drexler 1992 PO:. 26.3.. 7.4.. 7.0.. 55.8 ts.. 120 ortg.. 6.2 obpm.. 2.1 vorp.. 22.8 PER
Lebron' 2011 PO:. 23.7.. 8.4.. 5.9.. 56.3 ts.. 113 ortg.. 5.4 obpm.. 2.3 vorp.. 23.7 PER
Lebron' 2007 PO:. 25.1.. 8.1.. 8.0.. 51.6 ts.. 109 ortg.. 5.4 obpm.. 2.4 vorp.. 23.9 PER

Drexler 1992 Finals:. 24.8.. 7.8.. 5.3.. 52.2 ts.. 3.0 tov.. 113 ortg.. 18.4 gmsc
Lebron' 2011 Finals:. 17.8.. 7.2.. 6.8.. 54.1 ts.. 4.0 tov.. 102 ortg.. 13.7 gmsc
Lebron' 2007 Finals:. 22.0.. 7.0.. 6.8.. 42.8 ts.. 5.8 tov.... 83 ortg.. 10.6 gmsc
.

[3ball]

it takes a player of Kobe or MJ's skill level to get stats within the triangle without hurting the offense

many players of derozan's level used the triangle and failed to win

MJ and Kobe are the only guys to win on the professional level with it.. that isn't coincidence.. (and peak Shaq won with it obv)

So DeRozan is nowhere near the caliber needed to win with it - he was infact far less Drexler, who was actually superior to 07' or 11' Lebron (see all the stats in previous post above) - that's the level drexler was at, and I do think drexler could've won with the 94' Bulls
.

[superduper]

Wonder why it's okay for Bran stans to say daily that Demar = MJ :wtf:

[LeCroix]

Strong shooter guard ability.

[Vino24]

I think DeRozan would fair pretty well with Jeff Hornacek being his toughest comp.

[3ball]

1992 ECSF

Jordan... 31.3 ppg
Cast....... 61.1 ppg


1994 ECSF

Pippen... 21.7 ppg
Cast....... 68.3 ppg


more jordan shots = less teammate shots.. so Jordan's 10 point advantage on Pippen cost his cast 7 points - which means his presence adds 3 points to the scoring overall (10 - 7) compared to Pippen

Assuming DeRozan's higher scoring detracts from his cast the same as Jordan's, then DeRozan isn't an adequate scorer to win.. Jordan only added 3 points overall once you account for lesser scoring from the cast, and DeRozan's scoring deficit to MJ is more than 3

That's just 1 way to look at it... It's interesting because Pippen's sidekick performance in 1992 ECSF (16 ppg on 42%) underperformed BJ and Grant's in 94' (17 ppg each on 50% +)

[FromDowntown]

1992 ECSF

Jordan... 31.3 ppg
Cast....... 61.1 ppg


1994 ECSF

Pippen... 21.7 ppg
Cast....... 68.3 ppg


more jordan shots = less teammate shots.. so Jordan's 10 point advantage on Pippen cost his cast 7 points - which means his presence adds 3 points to the scoring overall (10 - 7) compared to Pippen

Assuming DeRozan's higher scoring detracts from his cast the same as Jordan's, then DeRozan isn't an adequate scorer to win.. Jordan only added 3 points overall once you account for lesser scoring from the cast, and DeRozan's scoring deficit to MJ is more than 3

That's just 1 way to look at it... It's interesting because Pippen's sidekick performance in 1992 ECSF (16 ppg on 42%) underperformed BJ and Grant's in 94' (17 ppg each on 50% +)

Didn't think you were dumb enough to do this.

Imagine Pippen havd Jordan in 94 to do all the dirty work for him while he was the number one option. How do you think that would look like?

[3ball]

Didn't think you were dumb enough to do this.

Imagine Pippen havd Jordan in 94 to do all the dirty work for him while he was the number one option. How do you think that would look like?
Actually, MJ was doing all the dirty work as the goat guard defender and getting more dpoy votes basically every year... MJ was 2nd in dpoy voting in 93', while Pippen didn't place at all

And mj matched Pippen in assists, while carrying the goat scoring load... Pippen infact did very little...

MJ even guarded Magic for him most of the series (Magic is always guarded by forwards, but MJ did Pippen a favor to take pressure off in his first Finals - he knew pip couldn't handle the pressure)

[FromDowntown]

Actually, MJ was doing all the dirty work as the goat guard defender and getting more dpoy votes basically every year... MJ was 2nd in dpoy voting in 93', while Pippen didn't place at all

And mj matched Pippen in assists, while carrying the goat scoring load... Pippen infact did very little...

MJ even guarded Magic for him most of the series (Magic is always guarded by forwards, but MJ did Pippen a favor to take pressure off in his first Finals - he knew pip couldn't handle the pressure)

You were dumb enough to compare output of MJ with Pip and then Pip without MJ as if that's fair. Put MJ as #2 option behind Pippen in 94. What happens? Fail #1

Every NBA fan knows aboit MJ's 1-9 black mark. He was nothing without that Tree Trunk. Fail # 2

MJ didnt match Pippen in shit but scoring. Pip had more rebs, asts, stls, blk. Fail #3

Pip always had the superior DegRtg every single year eith MJ. MJ was just mediocre level defending, like a JR Smith type. Fail #4

Pip in 94 with MJ as #2option wins easily. MJ is nothing soecial. A solid #2 option. Fail #5

[warriorfan]

Derozen is the worst defender in the league

Michael is the best

[Vino24]

Derozen is the worst defender in the league

Michael is the best
Pippen was

[FromDowntown]

Derozen is the worst defender in the league

Michael is the best

MJ is a taller Allen Iverson

Quit it ashy broke boi :lol

[Bronbron23]

Do they win the championship? Derozan's best statistical season in his career. Bulls won 55 games with Pete Myers replacing Jordan.

Hellllll no. Derozan has shot 42%fg and 23% from three in the post season and mj shot 49% fg and 33% from the three in the post season. Mj also got way more assists and rebounds while playing way better defense. Youd have to be a f*cking moron to think that they'd win a chip with DeRozan. Im not surprised so many on here think they would:facepalm

[FromDowntown]

Hellllll no. Derozan has shot 42%fg and 23% from three in the post season and mj shot 49% fg and 33% from the three in the post season. Mj also got way more assists and rebounds while playing way better defense. Youd have to be a f*cking moron to think that they'd win a chip with DeRozan. Im not surprised so many on here think they would:facepalm

Think of his 90s competiton too:

•plumbers, mechanics, baggers, etc.

Think of his teammate:
•GOAT #2 option SP (Stimulus Pippen)

[DoctorP]

not even as good as Drexler. would probably be like a Mitch Richmond without a three.

maybe an Allan Houston ...

[Roundball_Rock]

Do they win the championship? Derozan's best statistical season in his career. Bulls won 55 games with Pete Myers replacing Jordan.

Easily. You are replacing the worst starting SG in the NBA with an all-star.

[Bronbron23]

Think of his 90s competiton too:

•plumbers, mechanics, baggers, etc.

Think of his teammate:
•GOAT #2 option SP (Stimulus Pippen)

Pips not the goat number 2 although he is an atg one.

As far as plumber and mechanics and what not theres no difference between brons and mj's competition skill, athleticism and size wise. Shit brons biggest accomplishment according to yall is beating a trio of steph, klay and dray. All are pretty mediocre and much less athletic than alot of mj's competition.

And then theres the old spurs team and the mavs with dirk and jason terry. Bron with alot of help has been beat 3 times by some of the least athletic players ever dude. Wtf are u talking about?

[Roundball_Rock]

You are downplaying dynasties. Beating a 73 win team is not the same thing as beating the Blazers or Sonics with 1 Hall of Famer each.

[IllegalD]

Do they win the championship? Derozan's best statistical season in his career. Bulls won 55 games with Pete Myers replacing Jordan.


Wow, this MJ doc isn't even 3 episodes in and it's got you completely TRIGGERED. :lol:oldlol::lebroncry:

[red1]

if you add derozan they become worse. he's a poor defender.

[red1]

you'd need to give scottie a better second option give him lowry and they're better.

[Roundball_Rock]

They can survive on defense. Grant left the next year and with no MJ, no Grant, no Rodman they were still the #2 defense. What they lacked was a second scorer alongside Pippen. DeRozan would provide that.

[LeCroix]

possible since they did 55 with Pete Myers

[Roundball_Rock]

possible since they did 55 with Pete Myers

Yup--Pete Myers who is a career 5/2/2 player (in the Bulls' defense, who else could they have signed in October, which is when MJ decided to bail?). :roll: DeRozen is 20/4/4 for his career and 27/5/4 in his peak year.

[imdaman99]

They prob lose in 5 games to the Knicks instead of in 7. Scottie still quits.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yes because, Pete Myers>>>>>DeRozan, right? :facepalm

[Smook A.]

DeMar would fit really well in the 90s because of his mid-range game. If he was on the Bulls in 93-94, in place of Pete Myers at SG, they'd definitely be a better team. I think they probably would've even gone to the finals, considering how close they got to beating the Knicks, the team that eventually made it out of the East that year.

[imdaman99]

Yes because, Pete Myers>>>>>DeRozan, right? :facepalm

This is the hard-nosed Knicks defense we're talking about, Derozan would be a net negative.
The Bulls get worse in the playoffs against good teams with Derozan than without him, I have no doubt about it.

[bullettooth]

LOL, so many insecure LeBron jock riders in this thread.

[Roundball_Rock]

This is the hard-nosed Knicks defense we're talking about, Derozan would be a net negative.
The Bulls get worse in the playoffs against good teams with Derozan than without him, I have no doubt about it.

The Bulls would get worse with DeRozan in place of Pete Myers? That is crazy.

[juju151111]

Easily. You are replacing the worst starting SG in the NBA with an all-star.
They don't win shit, Derozen is trash in the playoffs.

[GimmeThat]

the Milicic curse continues, i.e. when the coaching staff does more work than the head coach because they don't get the blame from public.

[aceman]

Phil Jackson always said team wins with Jeff Horacek at two guard

[SATAN]

Pip gets MVP and FMVP

[Roundball_Rock]

Phil Jackson always said team wins with Jeff Horacek at two guard

They almost traded for prime Hornacek at the deadline but Krause screwed it up.

The people saying DeRozan wouldn't help are ridiculous. The Bulls would go from the worst starting SG in the league to an all-star. Somehow that wouldn't help. :biggums:

[r0drig0lac]

They don't win shit, Derozen is trash in the playoffs.

this

[BigShotBob]

They almost traded for prime Hornacek at the deadline but Krause screwed it up.

The people saying DeRozan wouldn't help are ridiculous. The Bulls would go from the worst starting SG in the league to an all-star. Somehow that wouldn't help. :biggums:

No Derozen is very bad and has had some very low moments. He was literally benched against the Cavs and he was being guarded by the legendary JR Smith :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

You MJ kids never watched Pete Myers play. :lol

[32jazz]

They almost traded for prime Hornacek at the deadline but Krause screwed it up.

The people saying DeRozan wouldn't help are ridiculous. The Bulls would go from the worst starting SG in the league to an all-star. Somehow that wouldn't help. :biggums:
Derek Harper was an even cheaper alternative to Hornacek. Hornacek required a 20 ppg starter ( Jeff Malone & a 1st).


Harper was traded to Bulls biggest rivals Knicks for a rotational player & a 1st rounder( 25th pick) . Bulls could have had Harper , plus kept him from the Knicks who upraded from an injured Doc Rivers . Harper was available/ relatively cheap & still solid player. Knicks most efficient player & best guard in the Finals.



Harper would have been an upgrade over sticking with damn Pete Myers.

[Roundball_Rock]

Derek Harper was an even cheaper alternative to Hornacek. Hornacek required a 20 ppg starter ( Jeff Malone & a 1st).


Harper was traded to Bulls biggest rivals Knicks for a rotational player & a 1st rounder( 25th pick) . Bulls could have had Harper , plus kept him from the Knicks who upraded from an injured Doc Rivers . Harper was available/ relatively cheap & still solid player. Knicks most efficient player & best guard in the Finals.



Harper would have been an upgrade over sticking with damn Pete Myers.

Agreed. Krause did a great job but having Myers instead of Harper or Hornacek may have cost them a ring. To make matters worse their top rival got Harper.

[Bronbron23]

Do they win the championship? Derozan's best statistical season in his career. Bulls won 55 games with Pete Myers replacing Jordan.

Well if stats won chips id say yes. Unfortunately theres way more to winning then just stats though. Id expect a lebron stan to understand this more than anyone given how much he loses.

[Whoah10115]

Derek Harper was an even cheaper alternative to Hornacek. Hornacek required a 20 ppg starter ( Jeff Malone & a 1st).


Harper was traded to Bulls biggest rivals Knicks for a rotational player & a 1st rounder( 25th pick) . Bulls could have had Harper , plus kept him from the Knicks who upraded from an injured Doc Rivers . Harper was available/ relatively cheap & still solid player. Knicks most efficient player & best guard in the Finals.



Harper would have been an upgrade over sticking with damn Pete Myers.

Harper was a PG.

Harper didn't play well for the Knicks, which is part of their drop (along with Starks injury) post all-star break. It wasn't until the Finals that the real Derek Harper showed up.


DeRozan could have made Chicago better. But people who just wanna live in a vacuum are living in a vacuum.

The Bulls weren't better. The Knicks made things difficult. Hell, the Celtics in 08 did the same. Anyone think that young Chicago team wasn't lesser than the Lakers? Or whoever the hell it was they beat in the Conference Finals?

DeRozan would have changed the squad. He also didn't play defense. The Bulls overachieved. A big reason was the increased ball movement. They moved it around a lot before, but they did so even more that season and they needed to.

What would DeRozan do to Scottie's emergence? DeRozan is a scorer, but how is it going to mesh with him as the second scorer? Because if he's outscoring Scottie that isn't good. The Bulls had BJ Armstrong at the PG. DeRozan would have made them better, but how much would that have swung the series?

If they get Chris Mullin? Oh, then you might have something.

[r0drig0lac]

Well if stats won chips id say yes. Unfortunately theres way more to winning then just stats though. Id expect a lebron stan to understand this more than anyone given how much he loses.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/oldlol.gif http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/applause.gif

[Lebron23]

Well if stats won chips id say yes. Unfortunately theres way more to winning then just stats though. Id expect a lebron stan to understand this more than anyone given how much he loses.

Warriors were a better team than the Cavs. Lebtron averaged 34/12/11 in the 2017 and 2018 nba finals,but his performance wasn't enough. Just like Jordan getting swept by Birds Celtics despite MJ scoring 63 points in the playoffs.

[Roundball_Rock]

Harper was a PG.

It didn't matter whether he was a PG. Remember, the Bulls started two SGs with Jordan and R. Harper. With Pippen playing point forward you could start any two guards.

The Bulls looked at acquiring Harper. Krause didn't like his defense but 95' showed the team would have a strong defense no matter (no Grant, no Rodman, no MJ for 65 games and they still had the #2 defense). They needed offense and Pete Myers was a non-entity on offense.


What would DeRozan do to Scottie's emergence? DeRozan is a scorer, but how is it going to mesh with him as the second scorer? Because if he's outscoring Scottie that isn't good

I doubt it would make a difference to Pippen. Pippen scored 20-21 with MJ there scoring 30-33 and 22 without MJ. So he was doing the same things, he just got more recognition when MJ was gone. So DeRozen scoring 20-23 wouldn't change much.

The key difference would be when Pippen got doubled there would be a second option to score against the Knicks, which they lacked. Grant scored 15 PPG but he was getting a lot of that from dunks and putbacks, versus offense run through him.

[Bronbron23]

Warriors were a better team than the Cavs. Lebtron averaged 34/12/11 in the 2017 and 2018 nba finals,but his performance wasn't enough. Just like Jordan getting swept by Birds Celtics despite MJ scoring 63 points in the playoffs.

Well i wouldnt equate the 85 bulls to the 17 cavs first of all. Second, yeah the the 17, 18 warriors were definitely better but the rockets in 18 had no problem with them in 18. They win that series if cp3 dosnt go down so its not like they were unbeatable. Maybe cavs shouldn't have won but they shouldn't have lost as bad as they did if old ass cp3 and james frauden could do what they did.

And there were other loses besides the warriors. 2011 is the obvios one. Then theres 2014 and orlando in 08 i believe.

[Lebron23]

Well i wouldnt equate the 85 bulls to the 17 cavs first of all. Second, yeah the the 17, 18 warriors were definitely better but the rockets in 18 had no problem with them in 18. They win that series if cp3 dosnt go down so its not like they were unbeatable. Maybe cavs shouldn't have won but they shouldn't have lost as bad as they did if old ass cp3 and james frauden could do what they did.

And there were other loses besides the warriors. 2011 is the obvios one. Then theres 2014 and orlando in 08 i believe.

That Cavs team were a terrible defensive team

[Whoah10115]

It didn't matter whether he was a PG. Remember, the Bulls started two SGs with Jordan and R. Harper. With Pippen playing point forward you could start any two guards.

The Bulls looked at acquiring Harper. Krause didn't like his defense but 95' showed the team would have a strong defense no matter (no Grant, no Rodman, no MJ for 65 games and they still had the #2 defense). They needed offense and Pete Myers was a non-entity on offense.



I doubt it would make a difference to Pippen. Pippen scored 20-21 with MJ there scoring 30-33 and 22 without MJ. So he was doing the same things, he just got more recognition when MJ was gone. So DeRozen scoring 20-23 wouldn't change much.

The key difference would be when Pippen got doubled there would be a second option to score against the Knicks, which they lacked. Grant scored 15 PPG but he was getting a lot of that from dunks and putbacks, versus offense run through him.

Pippen scored 22 in that slow offense. How do they absorb DeRozen? Pippen's newfound leadership went beyond 22PPG. DeRozan is a midrange scorer who does a lot off the dribble. Wade lost much of his midrange quality when LeBron took over, because he lost the freedom to play off his dribble.

And the Harper point doesn't make sense. The Bulls started two SGs because Pippen was basically a PG and that super team didn't have anything better from the bench.

So how would Scottie being a PG allow the bulls to absorb Derek Harper, who was a PG, when they had BJ Armstrong, who was a PG? Pippen being a PG means they couldn't absorb Harper, because they'd then have 3 and no SG.

[aceman]

Pippen scored 22 in that slow offense. How do they absorb DeRozen? Pippen's newfound leadership went beyond 22PPG. DeRozan is a midrange scorer who does a lot off the dribble. Wade lost much of his midrange quality when LeBron took over, because he lost the freedom to play off his dribble.

And the Harper point doesn't make sense. The Bulls started two SGs because Pippen was basically a PG and that super team didn't have anything better from the bench.

So how would Scottie being a PG allow the bulls to absorb Derek Harper, who was a PG, when they had BJ Armstrong, who was a PG? Pippen being a PG means they couldn't absorb Harper, because they'd then have 3 and no SG.

Harper could defend the two which is all that would be required. Offensively he would add open shooting & they could runs plays for him. Positions irrelevant for 90s bulls really.

[Bronbron23]

That Cavs team were a terrible defensive team

dosnt lebron have some part in that though?

[NabJam90]

If you add any allstar calibre player to that squad you would think they would win the chip given they got pretty close without it.

[Roundball_Rock]

If you add any allstar calibre player to that squad you would think they would win the chip given they got pretty close without it.

Exactly.

[32jazz]

And the Harper point doesn't make sense. The Bulls started two SGs because Pippen was basically a PG and that super team didn't have anything better from the bench.

So how would Scottie being a PG allow the bulls to absorb Derek Harper, who was a PG, when they had BJ Armstrong, who was a PG? Pippen being a PG means they couldn't absorb Harper, because they'd then have 3 and no SG.

Jackson's triangle never had a ball dominant PG so your point is irrelevant. The Offense ran through Pippen/ Jordan & not through BJ or any other Bulls PG. The offense woth Harper would seamlessly run through the SF/ SG as it always had. Jacksons offenses didn't through Derek Fisher , Smush Parker in L.A. neither.

Playing Harper in a traditional offense at SG next to the classic ball dominant PG like Stockton, Kidd , etc....... probably would not be optimal, but he would have fit fine as a scorer / facilltator in the Triangle. Much better than Pete Myers.

[Turbo Slayer]

Dumbasses comparing DeRozen to MJ in this thread. :facepalm

[RogueBorg]

Harper could defend the two which is all that would be required. Offensively he would add open shooting & they could runs plays for him. Positions irrelevant for 90s bulls really.

That's a really good point. Beginning in 1995, they had 4 starters between 6-6 and 6-8.

[RRR3]

CP3 was still in his prime in 2018. That’s why the Rockets gave the Warriors so much trouble that year. CP3 was quite possibly one injury away from being universally considered top 20 but now we have idiots like ESPN ranking him 40th

[32jazz]

Harper was a PG.

Harper didn't play well for the Knicks, which is part of their drop (along with Starks injury) post all-star break. It wasn't until the Finals that the real Derek Harper showed up.

Don't get caught up in the PG position since Jackson's Triangle was never run through a ball dominant PG.

Harper did have a slow start ,but was an upgrade over Doc Rivers whose job he eventually took. Better than Pete Myers. And hewas rock solid when it counted in the Finals & was by far the teams most efficient player.

[Roundball_Rock]

CP3 was still in his prime in 2018. That’s why the Rockets gave the Warriors so much trouble that year. CP3 was quite possibly one injury away from being universally considered top 20 but now we have idiots like ESPN ranking him 40th

40th is ridiculous but injuries defined Paul's tenure in Houston. That is part of why they jettisoned him (the other being his issues with Harden). It doesn't matter how great a player is if they can't be counted on to show up. People talk about longevity but durability often gets overlooked. Kawhi playing 60 games isn't the same as LeBron playing 77.

[Whoah10115]

Some of you guys have comprehension issues.

Yes, they didn't rely on a point guard. Which is why they didn't need another one.

If the PG plays like Steph Curry, then sure. But Derek Harper l, whilst not ball-dominant, was not an off-ball guard.

So my point isn't irrelevant, it is the point.

"Bulls don't need point guards, irrelevant, so they could go and get another point guard ".

Ay.

[32jazz]

Some of you guys have comprehension issues.

Yes, they didn't rely on a point guard. Which is why they didn't need another one.

If the PG plays like Steph Curry, then sure. But Derek Harper l, whilst not ball-dominant, was not an off-ball guard.

So my point isn't irrelevant, it is the point.
y.

But Derek Harper had played SG in Dallas before & put up 18/6 ( 16 per) on a bad team but ........... . He's a big versatile guard & any version of Derek Harper is better than Pete Myers & my real point is he was available for a late 1st Rd pick. Bulls were hung out to dry by Mj retiring a week or so before the season instead of the early summer / free agency period.



Harper was a savvy veteran & a far better option than some guy found off the CBA scrap heap.

[Roundball_Rock]

But Derek Harper had played SG in Dallas before & put up 18/6 ( 16 per) on a bad team but ........... . He's a big versatile guard & any version of Derek Harper is better than Pete Myers & my real point is he was available for a late 1st Rd pick. Bulls were hung out to dry by Mj retiring a week or so before the season instead of the early summer / free agency period.



Harper was a savvy veteran & a far better option than some guy found off the CBA scrap heap.

Agreed. All they needed was some scoring. Myers was not a scoring threat.

[32jazz]

Agreed. All they needed was some scoring. Myers was not a scoring threat.


Essentially 4 on 5 with Myers in the lineup. Harper has to be respected. Magic Johnson played "SG" for the 1st 4 seasons of his career alongside a classic PG in Norm Nixon( won 2 rings ).


Harper would have been fine in the Triangle.

[Duncan21formvp]

Bulls lose in round 1 to Cavs

[Roundball_Rock]

Essentially 4 on 5 with Myers in the lineup. Harper has to be respected. Magic Johnson played "SG" for the 1st 4 seasons of his career alongside a classic PG in Norm Nixon( won 2 rings ).


Harper would have been fine in the Triangle.

Exactly. People don't realize how bad Myers was. He was 5/2/2 on 42% for his career. This is who the Bulls "replaced" MJ with. :lol

[aceman]

Some of you guys have comprehension issues.

Yes, they didn't rely on a point guard. Which is why they didn't need another one.

If the PG plays like Steph Curry, then sure. But Derek Harper l, whilst not ball-dominant, was not an off-ball guard.

So my point isn't irrelevant, it is the point.

"Bulls don't need point guards, irrelevant, so they could go and get another point guard ".

Ay.

Kukoc played 4, Rodman spent most games at center, Pippen was pg, Ron Harper was only ever a SG but played along greatest two guard ever. BJ & Kerr were spot up shooters. Why do you have such a hard time seeing combo guard like Derek playing the two?

[Roundball_Rock]

Kukoc played 4, Rodman spent most games at center, Pippen was pg, Ron Harper was only ever a SG but played along greatest two guard ever. BJ & Kerr were spot up shooters. Why do you have such a hard time seeing combo guard like Derek playing the two?

Because he knows his Knicks would lose if Harper was on the Bulls.

[Whoah10115]

Kukoc played 4, Rodman spent most games at center, Pippen was pg, Ron Harper was only ever a SG but played along greatest two guard ever. BJ & Kerr were spot up shooters. Why do you have such a hard time seeing combo guard like Derek playing the two?

Rodman was on the Bulls in 93/94?

You mean Grant? Doesn't change much.

Bulls need an off guard.

[aceman]

Rodman was on the Bulls in 93/94?

You mean Grant? Doesn't change much.

Bulls need an off guard.

Just pointing out Bulls of that era didn't have conventional positions

[Whoah10115]

Just pointing out Bulls of that era didn't have conventional positions

They need someone to be a second scorer and play off the ball. As he struggled with the Knicks, Harper would likely have struggled in the Bulls offense, and even more so if they asked him to play off the ball.

[32jazz]

They need someone to be a second scorer and play off the ball. As he struggled with the Knicks, Harper would likely have struggled in the Bulls offense, and even more so if they asked him to play off the ball. So you're saying that Pete Myers is the scorer they needed & should have stuck with him when Harper was virtually free?:oldlol:. Again Derek Harper had played off the ball in Dallas & put up 18/6(16 per) & could be a combo guard. Especially in the Triangle.

1)NBA Finals Game 7: Harper led the Knicks with 23 pts/ 6 assts/ 2 stls. 8/16 shooting & 2/5 from 3. Harper's 4th 20 point game in the Finals(Starks' 2nd 2-18 shooting night)


2)Harper put up 16.4/6 /3/ 2.5 steals . No one else was close to Harpers 59%(ts) & 56%(efg). Only 2 ppg behind the leading scorer


Bulls take away the thin Knicks ( Doc Rivers injury ) depth with signing Harper & you're not stuck with an offensive non factor like Myers that defenses ignore. The Bulls didn't need 20ppg from Harper. But he could have been a respected threat & a more nicely balanced scoring team.

[Roundball_Rock]

So you're saying that Pete Myers is the scorer they needed & should have stuck with him when Harper was virtually free?:oldlol:. Again Derek Harper had played off the ball in Dallas & put up 18/6(16 per) & could be a combo guard. Especially in the Triangle.

1)NBA Finals Game 7: Harper led the Knicks with 23 pts/ 6 assts/ 2 stls. 8/16 shooting & 2/5 from 3. Harper's 4th 20 point game in the Finals(Starks' 2nd 2-18 shooting night)


2)Harper put up 16.4/6 /3/ 2.5 steals . No one else was close to Harpers 59%(ts) & 56%(efg). Only 2 ppg behind the leading scorer


Bulls take away the thin Knicks ( Doc Rivers injury ) depth with signing Harper & you're not stuck with an offensive non factor like Myers that defenses ignore. The Bulls didn't need 20ppg from Harper. But he could have been a respected threat & a more nicely balanced scoring team.

Meanwhile Myers was a 0 on offense. :lol

[32jazz]

Just pointing out Bulls of that era didn't have conventional positions
Neither did the Lakers under Phil. Certainly wasn't the case with Fisher & Smush Parker.


The Bulls could have been a well balanced / good defensive team:

Pipoen- 22ppg

Grant-14/15 ppg

BJ- 13/14pg

Harper 13/14 ppg

Kukoc- 9/10 ppg


And Derek Harper being able to step up & give you the 20 plus points like he did with great effiecncy, in 4 games, of the NBA Finals. Including game 7 .

[Lebron23]

I think realistically a Prime Derozan and Pippen are capable of winning an nba title in 1994. Demar would beast in the no zone defense era. His lack of 3 points erange was the sole reason why Demar Derozan ain't a top 5 shooting guard in this league.

[Bawkish]

Derozan & Pip were both choke artists :lol

it will be the most pathetic playoff team ever

[light]

Do they win the championship? Derozan's best statistical season in his career. Bulls won 55 games with Pete Myers replacing Jordan.

Yeah they would've probably won that year. Obviously they would've beaten the Knicks.

[Kiddlovesnets]

They dont. Derozan has mental problems and gives up easily, thats not going to work at crunch time.

[dankok8]

They would win 5 straight titles. Come on... Make some more smart threads.

[HoopsNY]

The Bulls would get worse with DeRozan in place of Pete Myers? That is crazy.

I'm not saying Chicago would be worse, but what is their ceiling? DeRozan is a terrible defender. And would he survive the triangle offense? Ron Harper went from being a 20+ PPG scorer to basically being Pete Myers. And at least Harper could play defense. So I'm not sure DeRozan automatically makes them a championship team.

[light]

I'm not saying Chicago would be worse, but what is their ceiling? DeRozan is a terrible defender. And would he survive the triangle offense? Ron Harper went from being a 20+ PPG scorer to basically being Pete Myers. And at least Harper could play defense. So I'm not sure DeRozan automatically makes them a championship team.

DeRozan was on the Raptors when they had a top 5 defense. In fact, the Raptors had the 5th ranked defense with DeRozan in 2018 and they traded him for superior defender Kawhi Leonard and they still had the 5th ranked defense in 2019.

DeMar would be fine defensively with Pippen and Horace Grant anchoring the defense (Grant at the time was one of the best defensive bigs in the league).

What that Bulls team needed was more firepower.

Myers was inconsequential - on the team mostly because he was Pippen's best friend.

Harper was a good player but he was never an All-Star, obviously.

DeRozan is a much more natural scorer than Ron Harper. He has proven that he can score in any offense. He's also a more natural star. His game is actually a lot like Michael Jordan's, so I see no reason why he wouldn't do well under Phil Jackson.

One of the things Jackson stresses with the triangle offense is a basic skill like footwork and DeRozan has excellent footwork, for example. The triangle also takes a bit of intelligence and DeMar is considered an intelligent player (he actually runs a basketball IQ clinic with Spalding).

The Bulls would've improved dramatically with DeRozan in the fold.

[rawimpact]

Demar would pull the defense out and make Pippen a co-MVP alongside him.

96 Bulls would be close to the dream team in terms of how good they'd be offensively.

Defensively I'd give them the notch as well

[HoopsNY]

DeRozan was on the Raptors when they had a top 5 defense. In fact, the Raptors had the 5th ranked defense with DeRozan in 2018 and they traded him for superior defender Kawhi Leonard and they still had the 5th ranked defense in 2019.

DeMar would be fine defensively with Pippen and Horace Grant anchoring the defense (Grant at the time was one of the best defensive bigs in the league).

What that Bulls team needed was more firepower.

Myers was inconsequential - on the team mostly because he was Pippen's best friend.

Harper was a good player but he was never an All-Star, obviously.

DeRozan is a much more natural scorer than Ron Harper. He has proven that he can score in any offense. He's also a more natural star. His game is actually a lot like Michael Jordan's, so I see no reason why he wouldn't do well under Phil Jackson.

One of the things Jackson stresses with the triangle offense is a basic skill like footwork and DeRozan has excellent footwork, for example. The triangle also takes a bit of intelligence and DeMar is considered an intelligent player (he actually runs a basketball IQ clinic with Spalding).

The Bulls would've improved dramatically with DeRozan in the fold.

Most of what you said is spot on. DeRozan does have good footwork and that is to his credit. For that reason, he might excel in the triangle.

Defensively, though, he's a liability. And Toronto may have maintained a #5 ranking. But to equate them year to year would be equating DeRozan to Kawhi defensively, and the two just aren't on the same level.

In addition, the Spurs went from 3rd in Drtg to 19th. So it doesn't really pan out both ways.

Having said that, there's no reason to think he wouldn't play better than Myers and Harper, due to offensive reasons you mentioned.

[dankok8]

Demar is not a very impactful basketball player. His volume scoring stats are simply the result of getting a lot of touches. His efficiency in the playoffs is terrible (50.3 %TS for his career) and he barely does anything other than score the ball. My Raps after Demar (and without Kawhi) are still as good as they were with Demar. And Spurs didn't get better with him.

[HoopsNY]

Demar is not a very impactful basketball player. His volume scoring stats are simply the result of getting a lot of touches. His efficiency in the playoffs is terrible (50.3 %TS for his career) and he barely does anything other than score the ball. My Raps after Demar (and without Kawhi) are still as good as they were with Demar. And Spurs didn't get better with him.

Yea but the question is if you put DeRozan on the 1993-94 Bulls, how high is their ceiling? My guess is higher than where they finished, but I still think Hakeem wins the chip.

[3ball]

Yea but the question is if you put DeRozan on the 1993-94 Bulls, how high is their ceiling? My guess is higher than where they finished, but I still think Hakeem wins the chip.

Pippen averaged 21 on 40% in the 94' ECSF as 1st option - would he get that next to derozan?.. would they have good chemistry or would pippen turn into complete garbage like he did next to Hakeem/Barkley in 99' (who are obviously much better than derozan)

Here's the reality... Hakeem's Rockets were trash in 94' because Ewing almost beat them with 18 on 35%... so MJ replacing pippen easily wins the chip that year... Otoh, the 95' Rockets were for real with Drexler and had the toughest ring ever based on opponent SRS.. they swept shaq's magic just like the 96' Bulls

[light]

Pippen averaged 21 on 40% in the 94' ECSF as 1st option - would he get that next to derozan?.. would they have good chemistry or would pippen turn into complete garbage like he did next to Hakeem/Barkley in 99' (who are obviously much better than derozan)

Here's the reality... Hakeem's Rockets were trash in 94' because Ewing almost beat them with 18 on 35%... so MJ replacing pippen easily wins the chip that year... Otoh, the 95' Rockets were for real with Drexler and had the toughest ring ever based on opponent SRS.. they swept shaq's magic just like the 96' Bulls

But MJ could barely win a series without Pippen. Pip was responsible for too many things that Jordan didn't do. And Pip EMPHASIZED teamwork and selflessness. That's why the Bulls were better with Pippen at the helm versus Jordan who struggled with trusting his teammates. It's why a solo Jordan team was relatively easy to defend - you always knew what the Bulls offense was going to do.

[dankok8]

Yea but the question is if you put DeRozan on the 1993-94 Bulls, how high is their ceiling? My guess is higher than where they finished, but I still think Hakeem wins the chip.

I'll kind of play devil's advocate here and say they don't even get better. Derozan only helps in scoring and he's isn't efficient. I don't see how he improves them significantly.

[Bawkish]

But MJ could barely win a series without Pippen. Pip was responsible for too many things that Jordan didn't do. And Pip EMPHASIZED teamwork and selflessness. That's why the Bulls were better with Pippen at the helm versus Jordan who struggled with trusting his teammates. It's why a solo Jordan team was relatively easy to defend - you always knew what the Bulls offense was going to do.

so how's Pip's "great" leadership helped his career in '94? Houston? Portland?

[Shooter]

I think DeRozan would fair pretty well with Jeff Hornacek being his toughest comp.

+1

[HoopsNY]

Pippen averaged 21 on 40% in the 94' ECSF as 1st option - would he get that next to derozan?.. would they have good chemistry or would pippen turn into complete garbage like he did next to Hakeem/Barkley in 99' (who are obviously much better than derozan)

Here's the reality... Hakeem's Rockets were trash in 94' because Ewing almost beat them with 18 on 35%... so MJ replacing pippen easily wins the chip that year... Otoh, the 95' Rockets were for real with Drexler and had the toughest ring ever based on opponent SRS.. they swept shaq's magic just like the 96' Bulls

Hakeem's Rockets were trash? You do realize Ewing's bad performance was because of Hakeem's defense, right? Offensive output is largely because of the opposition's defense.

Team's don't go out there shooting wide open jumpers that result in 35% shooting. Get real.

[HoopsNY]

But MJ could barely win a series without Pippen. Pip was responsible for too many things that Jordan didn't do. And Pip EMPHASIZED teamwork and selflessness. That's why the Bulls were better with Pippen at the helm versus Jordan who struggled with trusting his teammates. It's why a solo Jordan team was relatively easy to defend - you always knew what the Bulls offense was going to do.

You're letting your hatred for MJ cloud your judgement. Jordan did everything that Pippen did. And to say he barely won a series without Pippen reduces MJ's contribution in a series like the '88 series against Cleveland. Rookie Pippen wasn't the reason why Chicago won, MJ was.

To say a solo MJ team was relatively "easy" to defend is also disingenuous. Relative to whom? A Jordan-less Bulls? Chicago was 7th offensively in 1993 with an injured Pippen. In 1994, they had a healthy, peak Pippen, peak Grant, and peak Armstrong, and finished 14th offensively.

The '88 team finished 9th offensively. Is that due to Pippen? Keep in mind, the '88 team didn't play with the triangle, nor had Phil Jackson as the head coach.

Pippen '88: 21 Mpg, 8 PPG, 2 Assists, 49% TS%, 2 TOs, and 0.2 ORBs

So is Chicago's "relative" success, offensively, due to Pippen here?

In addition, I love that they were better with Pippen at the helm (healthy/peak Pippen, peak Grant, peak Armstrong) but complete disregard for MJ leading the team to a 26-12 record (56 team win pace) in 1998 without Pippen for nearly half the season.

[Phoenix]

There are some who argue that the 94 Bulls WITH MJ would lose to the Rockets, so I fail to see how they'd win with DeRozan. The non-troll deduction is DeRozan would boost them past the Knicks and probably the Pacers then lose to the Rockets.

[Manny98]

I'm not high on DeRozan at all, I think he's one of the most overrated shooting guards this past decade. I think he will actually make the Bulls worse

[3ball]

Hakeem's Rockets were trash? You do realize Ewing's bad performance was because of Hakeem's defense, right? Offensive output is largely because of the opposition's defense.

Team's don't go out there shooting wide open jumpers that result in 35% shooting. Get real.

But the rockets barely won in 7 games despite Ewing playing like garbage.. so a better 1st option performance easily wins.. and we all know Starks played well except cratered in game 7

Again, they only became viable when Drexler arrived

[HoopsNY]

But the rockets barely won in 7 games despite Ewing playing like garbage.. so a better 1st option performance easily wins.. and we all know Starks played well except cratered in game 7

Again, they only became viable when Drexler arrived

That speaks more to the Knicks' team defense than the Rockets as an offense. You big up the Knicks in other posts, now all of a sudden the Rockets got taken to 7 games because they're trash? The irony.

[HoopsNY]

You're letting your hatred for MJ cloud your judgement. Jordan did everything that Pippen did. And to say he barely won a series without Pippen reduces MJ's contribution in a series like the '88 series against Cleveland. Rookie Pippen wasn't the reason why Chicago won, MJ was.

To say a solo MJ team was relatively "easy" to defend is also disingenuous. Relative to whom? A Jordan-less Bulls? Chicago was 7th offensively in 1993 with an injured Pippen. In 1994, they had a healthy, peak Pippen, peak Grant, and peak Armstrong, and finished 14th offensively.

The '88 team finished 9th offensively. Is that due to Pippen? Keep in mind, the '88 team didn't play with the triangle, nor had Phil Jackson as the head coach.

Pippen '88: 21 Mpg, 8 PPG, 2 Assists, 49% TS%, 2 TOs, and 0.2 ORBs

So is Chicago's "relative" success, offensively, due to Pippen here?

In addition, I love that they were better with Pippen at the helm (healthy/peak Pippen, peak Grant, peak Armstrong) but complete disregard for MJ leading the team to a 26-12 record (56 team win pace) in 1998 without Pippen for nearly half the season.

Made an error here. Chicago was actually 2nd in offense in 1993, which only furthers my point.

[And1AllDay]

Think of his 90s competiton too:

•plumbers, mechanics, baggers, etc.

Think of his teammate:
•GOAT #2 option SP (Stimulus Pippen)

Yikes

[And1AllDay]

possible since they did 55 with Pete Myers


Yup--Pete Myers who is a career 5/2/2 player (in the Bulls' defense, who else could they have signed in October, which is when MJ decided to bail?). :roll: DeRozen is 20/4/4 for his career and 27/5/4 in his peak year.

interesting

Pippen is an animal

any number 2 will do

[Shooter]

He's an upgrade for sure.

[2much_knowledge]

You're letting your hatred for MJ cloud your judgement. Jordan did everything that Pippen did. And to say he barely won a series without Pippen reduces MJ's contribution in a series like the '88 series against Cleveland. Rookie Pippen wasn't the reason why Chicago won, MJ was.

To say a solo MJ team was relatively "easy" to defend is also disingenuous. Relative to whom? A Jordan-less Bulls? Chicago was 7th offensively in 1993 with an injured Pippen. In 1994, they had a healthy, peak Pippen, peak Grant, and peak Armstrong, and finished 14th offensively.

The '88 team finished 9th offensively. Is that due to Pippen? Keep in mind, the '88 team didn't play with the triangle, nor had Phil Jackson as the head coach.

Pippen '88: 21 Mpg, 8 PPG, 2 Assists, 49% TS%, 2 TOs, and 0.2 ORBs

So is Chicago's "relative" success, offensively, due to Pippen here?

In addition, I love that they were better with Pippen at the helm (healthy/peak Pippen, peak Grant, peak Armstrong) but complete disregard for MJ leading the team to a 26-12 record (56 team win pace) in 1998 without Pippen for nearly half the season.

Why bother? These people are allergic to 2 things. Making good threads and good insight

[2much_knowledge]

If Derozan = MJ, then that makes Kawhi the GOD of basketball. Did what Derozan couldn't in just one year lol

[Bronbron23]

He's an upgrade for sure.

A guy who has put up 22/5/4 on 42% in the playoffs is an upgrade over a guy who puts up 33 6/6 on 49%?

Bron stans intelligence on full display:facepalm

[97 bulls]

A guy who has put up 22/5/4 on 42% in the playoffs is an upgrade over a guy who puts up 33 6/6 on 49%?

Bron stans intelligence on full display:facepalm

Hes an upgrade over Pete Myers. Jordan wasn't on the 94 Bulls.

[Bronbron23]

Hes an upgrade over Pete Myers. Jordan wasn't on the 94 Bulls.

I truly don't know if DeRozan is an upgrade over him either. Seems like it is initially but when you really think about it i'm not sure it is. All your doing is putting the ball in the hands of a guard who shoots 42%fg and 22% from 3. He's also not a great passer or defender. At least with pete myers the ball is gonna move more because he's not gonna look for his shot that much and he's not gonna play alot. With DeRozan you have to play him alot and make him a focal point of the offense. That's impossible to manage given the way he performs.

[HoopsNY]

There are some who argue that the 94 Bulls WITH MJ would lose to the Rockets, so I fail to see how they'd win with DeRozan. The non-troll deduction is DeRozan would boost them past the Knicks and probably the Pacers then lose to the Rockets.

That wouldn't make sense. the 1994 Bulls had 3 All-Star players, all at their peak. MJ was in his peak then and if you add a 4th All-Star/All-NBA player, then Houston wouldn't stand a chance.

They struggled to beat the Knicks in 7 games. And Chicago took that Knicks team to 7 games without Jordan. So if you're adding peak MJ to the mix, then the Rockets likely get swept or lose in 5.

1995, however, is a different story. Chicago would have been running on fumes having won 4 titles in a row. They lost Grant and would have had no one to contend Hakeem down low and grab rebounds at a high rate. Also, Houston added Drexler and that team swept a stacked Orlando team.

I'd say Rockets in 6 or 7.

[97 bulls]

I truly don't know if DeRozan is an upgrade over him either. Seems like it is initially but when you really think about it i'm not sure it is. All your doing is putting the ball in the hands of a guard who shoots 42%fg and 22% from 3. He's also not a great passer or defender. At least with pete myers the ball is gonna move more because he's not gonna look for his shot that much and he's not gonna play alot. With DeRozan you have to play him alot and make him a focal point of the offense. That's impossible to manage given the way he performs.

Wow bro. You actually believe Pete Myers has the same impact as Demarr DeRozan? SMH.

With Pippen and Co there, why does DeRozan need to shoot that much? Let's say he takes less shots, and thus becomes more efficient. Perhaps 17 ppg on 47%. Myers was worthless on offense and not much on defense.

[97 bulls]

That wouldn't make sense. the 1994 Bulls had 3 All-Star players, all at their peak. MJ was in his peak then and if you add a 4th All-Star/All-NBA player, then Houston wouldn't stand a chance.

They struggled to beat the Knicks in 7 games. And Chicago took that Knicks team to 7 games without Jordan. So if you're adding peak MJ to the mix, then the Rockets likely get swept or lose in 5.

1995, however, is a different story. Chicago would have been running on fumes having won 4 titles in a row. They lost Grant and would have had no one to contend Hakeem down low and grab rebounds at a high rate. Also, Houston added Drexler and that team swept a stacked Orlando team.

I'd say Rockets in 6 or 7.

I agree. The 94 Bulls with MN would mollywhomp the Rockets. And I also agree that fatigue, injuries etc may catch up to them by 95. It's the same argument I use for Pippen. All those deep playoff runs catch up to you. Especially in the bruiser 90s

[HoopsNY]

Wow bro. You actually believe Pete Myers has the same impact as Demarr DeRozan? SMH.

With Pippen and Co there, why does DeRozan need to shoot that much? Let's say he takes less shots, and thus becomes more efficient. Perhaps 17 ppg on 47%. Myers was worthless on offense and not much on defense.

DeRozan is an obvious upgrade, but consider the Knicks would have probably shut him down. The Pacers were the best defense DeRozan saw in the playoffs and he shot 32% in that series. Still though, they likely beat the Knicks and advance to the ECF.

[aj1987]

I truly don't know if DeRozan is an upgrade over him either. Seems like it is initially but when you really think about it i'm not sure it is. All your doing is putting the ball in the hands of a guard who shoots 42%fg and 22% from 3. He's also not a great passer or defender. At least with pete myers the ball is gonna move more because he's not gonna look for his shot that much and he's not gonna play alot. With DeRozan you have to play him alot and make him a focal point of the offense. That's impossible to manage given the way he performs.

Man, how many shit takes are you gonna have in one month?

[97 bulls]

Man, how many shit takes are you gonna have in one month?

It's crazy. I didnt know Pete Myers was this highly regarded.

[97 bulls]

DeRozan is an obvious upgrade, but consider the Knicks would have probably shut him down. The Pacers were the best defense DeRozan saw in the playoffs and he shot 32% in that series. Still though, they likely beat the Knicks and advance to the ECF.

Then Pippens gets less defensive attention. And his numbers look better. Much better. And most importantly, they win.

[Bronbron23]

Wow bro. You actually believe Pete Myers has the same impact as Demarr DeRozan? SMH.

With Pippen and Co there, why does DeRozan need to shoot that much? Let's say he takes less shots, and thus becomes more efficient. Perhaps 17 ppg on 47%. Myers was worthless on offense and not much on defense.

What makes you think DeRozan is gonna be able to do that though. In a easier scoring era he's only shot above 45% for a series twice. Imagine what his efficiency would be in era where it's harder to score. He'd have a career playoff efficiency of below 40% and that's with barely shooting 3's. Do you know how bad that is?

To answer the question though yes i think if he was willing to accept a limited role offensively he'd obviously be a better fit than myers. I don't think he would though. He's a max player who believes he's one of the best. He wouldn't be ok with that role. We've already seen this play out when he was on the Raptors and he was benched for his typical inefficient play and bad defense. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23419189/demar-derozan-toronto-raptors-frustrated-being-benched-poor-play-game-3

[HoopsNY]

Then Pippens gets less defensive attention. And his numbers look better. Much better. And most importantly, they win.

Nah. His numbers weren't crazy alongside MJ, so why would they be with DeRozan? In addition, the Knicks had great on the ball and help defense.

[Bronbron23]

Man, how many shit takes are you gonna have in one month?

Right so you think it's a good a idea to play a guy that would shoot 40% fg who can't pass and can't defend? This is your path to a chip?

DeRozan is clearly better than myers dude it's not about that. Problem with DeRozan is you have to play him and make him a focal point of the offense. This clearly is detrimental to your offense. With myers you don't have to play him at all and you do you don't have to make him the focal point of the offense when he does play.

If you coukd convince DeRozan to take a myers type roll he'd clearly be better. That wouldn't be the case though

[Shooter]

A guy who has put up 22/5/4 on 42% in the playoffs is an upgrade over a guy who puts up 33 6/6 on 49%?

Bron stans intelligence on full display:facepalm

An upgrade over Pete Myers.

MJ stans insecurities on full display:facepalm

Although now that you mention it....

[aj1987]

Right so you think it's a good a idea to play a guy that would shoot 40% fg who can't pass and can't defend? This is your path to a chip?

DeRozan is clearly better than myers dude it's not about that. Problem with DeRozan is you have to play him and make him a focal point of the offense. This clearly is detrimental to your offense. With myers you don't have to play him at all and you do you don't have to make him the focal point of the offense when he does play.

If you coukd convince DeRozan to take a myers type roll he'd clearly be better. That wouldn't be the case though

:facepalm

[Bronbron23]

An upgrade over Pete Myers...

MJ stans insecurities on full display:facepalm

Wouldn't be a an upgrade over Pete myers either. Unfortunately unlike myers you have to play DeRozan and make him a focal point of the offense. So the question isn't is DeRozan better than myers. It's does a player who shoots 40%fg and dosn't pass or play defense help or hurt you? So if we agree that that hurts you than we should be able to agree derozan hurts you more than myers who dosn't play enough to hurt or help.

[Bronbron23]

:facepalm

Cool so you think a player who shoots 15-20 shots a game at a 40% clip without threes and dosn't pass or play defense actually helps you? I just wanna see if you actually think this and will say it.

[97 bulls]

Nah. His numbers weren't crazy alongside MJ, so why would they be with DeRozan? In addition, the Knicks had great on the ball and help defense.

Because MJ demanded the ball more. He was much more agressive.

[mehyaM24]

chicago might get past the knicks, but don't see them winning a championship. demar has more skills and better numbers than pete myers - but his game is hollow. a net negative and its been that way even BEFORE this thread. demar's impact wouldn't move the needle and in a tougher defensive era, he would be even worse.

[Manny98]

It would be the bulls and the rockets in the finals.

This but they'd probably lose in the finals

[Manny98]

Wouldn't be a an upgrade over Pete myers either. Unfortunately unlike myers you have to play DeRozan and make him a focal point of the offense. So the question isn't is DeRozan better than myers. It's does a player who shoots 40%fg and dosn't pass or play defense help or hurt you? So if we agree that that hurts you than we should be able to agree derozan hurts you more than myers who dosn't play enough to hurt or help.

DeRozan never shot 40% from the field what are you talking about, he's a career 46% from the field and is one of the best mid range scorers of this generation

Bulls would improve if they added DeRozan but I don't believe it would be enough to win a championship but they'll at least reach the finals

[97 bulls]

Nah. His numbers weren't crazy alongside MJ, so why would they be with DeRozan? In addition, the Knicks had great on the ball and help defense.

What do you think Derozans numbers would look like in place of Pete Myers?

[Bronbron23]

DeRozan never shot 40% from the field what are you talking about, he's a career 46% from the field and is one of the best mid range scorers of this generation

Bulls would improve if they added DeRozan but I don't believe it would be enough to win a championship but they'll at least reach the finals

Before that i said he was 42% fg for his career in the post season. That's in an easier scoring era though. Drop him in one of the hardest scoring era's and his efficiency drops at least a couple % probably more.

As far as them being better it depends. If he's playing a smaller role than yeah. If he's taking 15-20 shots a game and he's your best or second best scorer then definitely not. I don't understand how anyone thinks adding a player who can't defend or pass and shoots 17 shots a game at 40%fg is gonna make you better. It dosnt make sense.

[Shooter]

Wouldn't be a an upgrade over Pete myers either. Unfortunately unlike myers you have to play DeRozan and make him a focal point of the offense. So the question isn't is DeRozan better than myers. It's does a player who shoots 40%fg and dosn't pass or play defense help or hurt you? So if we agree that that hurts you than we should be able to agree derozan hurts you more than myers who dosn't play enough to hurt or help.

Just for being an idiot and saying that I change my mind

Demar is an upgrade over Jordan.

1994 Bulls could swap MJ for Demar and win a chip. That's MJ's impact. HOWEVER, if you kept MJ and instead swapped Pippen for Demar they don't go anywhere.

[Shooter]

The 1994 Bulls replaced the fraud GOAT MJ for Pete Myers. Pete Myers, the guy out of the league for 2 years playing in Italy. Pete Myers, the guy who averaged 7-3-2 during the playoff run. In 1995 Playoffs Pete Myers averaged 1-1-1. This is the guy who replaced MJ and the Bulls didn't skip a beat.

In fact they even had a deep playoff run and could have won a chip if they had a better replacement like DeMar Derozan.

Let that sink in.

The Bulls could have traded MJ for Demar Derozan and won a championship.

[Bronbron23]

Just for being an idiot and saying that I change my mind

Demar is an upgrade over Jordan.

1994 Bulls could swap MJ for Demar and win a chip. That's MJ's impact. HOWEVER, if you kept MJ and instead swapped Pippen for Demar they don't go anywhere.

That's cool you can think whatever you want even though it has no basis. Mine does though.

Again though please tell me all about how someone who can't pass or defend and shoots 40% or worse without threes is gonna make the bulls or any team better. Still waiting on one of yall idiots to acknowledge this. You just keep avoiding the question.

[mehyaM24]

The 1994 Bulls replaced the fraud GOAT MJ for Pete Myers. Pete Myers, the guy out of the league for 2 years playing in Italy. Pete Myers, the guy who averaged 7-3-2 during the playoff run. In 1995 Playoffs Pete Myers averaged 1-1-1. This is the guy who replaced MJ and the Bulls didn't skip a beat.

In fact they even had a deep playoff run and could have won a chip if they had a better replacement like DeMar Derozan.

Let that sink in.

The Bulls could have traded MJ for Demar Derozan and won a championship.

bud.. this is a facetious post right? i think you could replace jordan with another guard, say drexler, and chicago likely wins. but demar is the epitome of empty stats. checkout his real plus minus. over the last 4-5 seasons he's been a net negative. knowing this why do you think he is high impact?

[Shooter]

bud.. this is a facetious post right? i think you could replace jordan with another guard, say drexler, and chicago likely wins. but demar is the epitome of empty stats. checkout his real plus minus. over the last 4-5 seasons he's been a net negative. knowing this why do you think he is high impact?

They almost won a chip with Pete Myers, who averaged 1-1-1 in the 1995 Playoffs. Any slight upgrade and they win the chip. Easily win with Klay or Kyle Lowry.

[PeroAntic]

That's cool you can think whatever you want even though it has no basis. Mine does though.

Again though please tell me all about how someone who can't pass or defend and shoots 40% or worse without threes is gonna make the bulls or any team better. Still waiting on one of yall idiots to acknowledge this. You just keep avoiding the question.

The guy is clearly a retard, but out of this, only the defence thing is true. Demar can pass pretty well and the threes didn't matter that much back then. Defence is a huge problem though. Demar is plain bad for whatever reason (doesnt seem like its lack of trying) while MJ is one of the best defenders ever if not the best in that position. So thats enough even with the efficiency and passing.

[97 bulls]

Just for being an idiot and saying that I change my mind

Demar is an upgrade over Jordan.

1994 Bulls could swap MJ for Demar and win a chip. That's MJ's impact. HOWEVER, if you kept MJ and instead swapped Pippen for Demar they don't go anywhere.

Lol

[97 bulls]

That's cool you can think whatever you want even though it has no basis. Mine does though.

Again though please tell me all about how someone who can't pass or defend and shoots 40% or worse without threes is gonna make the bulls or any team better. Still waiting on one of yall idiots to acknowledge this. You just keep avoiding the question.

What do you think Pete Myers numbers would be today? Pts, RBD, assts, FG% And please tell me Scottie Pippens as well.

[mehyaM24]

They almost won a chip with Pete Myers, who averaged 1-1-1 in the 1995 Playoffs. Any slight upgrade and they win the chip. Easily win with Klay or Kyle Lowry.

they lost in 7 to the knicks. in the eastern semis. don't think that is "almost" winning. klay & lowry are definitely names i can co-sign though. with pip's playmaking, klay would have been a very good fit.

[Bronbron23]

They almost won a chip with Pete Myers, who averaged 1-1-1 in the 1995 Playoffs. Any slight upgrade and they win the chip. Easily win with Klay or Kyle Lowry.

No any slight upgrade and maybe they get passed the knicks. They don't win a chip though. A major upgrade and maybe they win a chip. That's kind of the whole point though buddy. Demar isn't a slight up grade. He has a negative impact on the game. He's not very good and in the post season he's worse than that although based on you switching to klay or lowery looks like your finally getting that.

And no they don't win a chip with lowery. Lowery is a basic gaurd who takes advantage of these rules. Put him in the 90's and he's an average gaurd. Klay is an interesting one. They still don't win a chip with him but they definitely make it to the finals and put up a decent fight.

[Shooter]

they lost in 7 to the knicks. in the eastern semis. don't think that is "almost" winning. klay & lowry are definitely names i can co-sign though. with pip's playmaking, klay would have been a very good fit.

Nobody is stopping Scottie's Bulls with Klay or Lowry. 1994 Rockets were weak. 1995 may be different but 1994 would have been a cake walk.

[97 bulls]

they lost in 7 to the knicks. in the eastern semis. don't think that is "almost" winning. klay & lowry are definitely names i can co-sign though. with pip's playmaking, klay would have been a very good fit.

I think it's in relation to the fact that the Knicks beat the. Bulls in 7 hard fought games and the Rockets beat the Knicks in 7 hard fought ganes. Thus all 3 teams were pretty much on the same level.

[FKAri]

I think it's in relation to the fact that the Knicks beat the. Bulls in 7 hard fought games and the Rockets beat the Knicks in 7 hard fought ganes. Thus all 3 teams were pretty much on the same level.

The Bulls with or without Derozan don't match up well with the Rockets.

[Bronbron23]

What do you think Pete Myers numbers would be today? Pts, RBD, assts, FG% And please tell me Scottie Pippens as well.

I have no idea. Probably not much difference. It's irrelevant though.

Let me try to help you. In 94 against the knicks in the second round myers averaged 7 pts a game on 53% fg. DeRozan in the post season in his career has averaged 22 pts on 42%. So if we apply that to that series Here's what you have to consider. DeRozan plays in an easier scoring era so if were dropping DeRozan in the mid 90's we can automatically take a couple points fg% away. So let's be generous and say he'd be at 20pts on 40% fg. Now we have to take into account playing minutes. He played twice as many minutes as myers. So if were talking about an exact switch and he's playing the exact amount of minutes then you can pretty much cut DeRozans points in half so now he's at 10 points on 40%fg. Let's be fair and give him an extra 5% fg for taking less forced shots as a role player and he's at 10pts on 45%fg.

So what your saying is the extra 3 pts on considerable less fg% is gonna be significant upgrade and the shit just dosn't make sense dude.

If were not talking about an exact switch and DeRozan is playing his usual 40 min and taking his usual inefficient shots than now you have a guy taking a large number of shots at inefficient rate. Add on the bad defense and i'm just not sure how having DeRozan is an improvement in any sense.

Either way the shit don't make sense bruh.

[mehyaM24]

Nobody is stopping Scottie's Bulls with Klay or Lowry. 1994 Rockets were weak. 1995 may be different but 1994 would have been a cake walk.

dont think houston was weak. they actually had the highest playoff NetRtg. i agree they relied on hakeem quite a bit, but for a good reason. dream had one of the greatest peaks in history and the rockets were a decent 3PT shooting team because of it (crowd hakeem and he kicks it out). houston took the most threes that playoffs.

the 95 team was better though, agreed.


I think it's in relation to the fact that the Knicks beat the. Bulls in 7 hard fought games and the Rockets beat the Knicks in 7 hard fought ganes. Thus all 3 teams were pretty much on the same level.

maybe, but that's just a hypothetical. they still lost in the semis and don't think they matched up well with houston anyway. for most of the 90s, chicago was dog chow for houston.

[Shooter]

What do you think Pete Myers numbers would be today? Pts, RBD, assts, FG% And please tell me Scottie Pippens as well.

Pete Myers averaged 1 point, 1 assist, and 1 rebound per game (1-1-1) during the 1995 playoffs.

[Bronbron23]

Nobody is stopping Scottie's Bulls with Klay or Lowry. 1994 Rockets were weak. 1995 may be different but 1994 would have been a cake walk.

Lowery? Are u flicking kidding me? Dude was a joke until kawhi got there. You guys aren't thinking this shit through. Lowery averages 16 points a game in the post season. You act like this is what he would do in 94. Throw him in 94 and Lowery maybe scores 12 pts a game. It was a different era. Point guards weren't looking for their shot as much and they weren't shooting 7 threes a game. Whole teams were barely shooting that. So take away a couple points for the harder scoring era and a couple points for shooting 2 threes a game instead of seven and lowery starts to look alot less impressive.

Klay is a bit different. He also scores less because of the same reasons but he's still a considerably better scorer than kyle. He's also a better defender. He would help the bulls alot more but i still don't think it's enough to beat the Rockets in the finals. Bulls still wouldn't have a guy that can go get his own shot.

[Bronbron23]

Pete Myers averaged 1 point, 1 assist, and 1 steal per game (1-1-1) during the 1995 playoffs.

The op didn't ask about 95. He asked about 94. Pete myers scored about 7 pts a game on 52% shooting in the 94 playoffs. Imagine thinking lowery or derozan score way more than than 7 pts a game with half as many minutes as they play now and in an era where it was harder to score and where they didn't shoot threes. Y'all are crazy with this shit.

[Shooter]

Lowery? Are u flicking kidding me? Dude was a joke until kawhi got there. You guys aren't thinking this shit through. Lowery averages 16 points a game in the post season. You act like this is what he would do in 94. Throw him in 94 and Lowery maybe scores 12 pts a game. It was a different era. Point guards weren't looking for their shot as much and they weren't shooting 7 threes a game. Whole teams were barely shooting that. So take away a couple points for the harder scoring era and a couple points for shooting 2 threes a game instead of seven and lowery starts to look alot less impressive.

Klay is a bit different. He also scores less because of the same reasons but he's still a considerably better scorer than kyle. He's also a better defender. He would help the bulls alot more but i still don't think it's enough to beat the Rockets in the finals. Bulls still wouldn't have a guy that can go get his own shot.

Kyle Lowry would transcend 90s basketball. A bull of a guard with good defense and unlimited range? Teams would be shitting themselves every time Kyle touches the ball with his 3point range. Keep up with the times man. The 90s was the weakest era in sports history, who are you trying to kid? Sorry it won't work on people that know what they're talking about.

[Bronbron23]

Kyle Lowry would transcend 90s basketball. A bull of a guard with good defense and unlimited range? Teams would be shitting themselves every time Kyle touches the ball with his 3point range. Keep up with the times man. The 90s was the weakest era in sports history, who are you trying to kid? Sorry it won't work on people that know what they're talking about.

Right kyle lowery would be a future teller and know that teams should be shooting 3 times as many threes. Good luck with that theory.

Here's reality. Teams shoot on average 35 threes a game. Lowery shoots 7-8 threes a game thats 20% of his teams threes. Teams on average shot 10 threes a game in 93-94. If lowery shot 20% of his teams threes he'd shoot 2 threes a game. Your an idiot dude.

And the league literally put rules in to male the game easier for players. This isn't even arguable. It's literally a fact. Must be nice living in denial:facepalm

[97 bulls]

I have no idea. Probably not much difference. It's irrelevant though.

Let me try to help you. In 94 against the knicks in the second round myers averaged 7 pts a game on 53% fg. DeRozan in the post season in his career has averaged 22 pts on 42%. So if we apply that to that series Here's what you have to consider. DeRozan plays in an easier scoring era so if were dropping DeRozan in the mid 90's we can automatically take a couple points fg% away. So let's be generous and say he'd be at 20pts on 40% fg. Now we have to take into account playing minutes. He played twice as many minutes as myers. So if were talking about an exact switch and he's playing the exact amount of minutes then you can pretty much cut DeRozans points in half so now he's at 10 points on 40%fg. Let's be fair and give him an extra 5% fg for taking less forced shots as a role player and he's at 10pts on 45%fg.

So what your saying is the extra 3 pts on considerable less fg% is gonna be significant upgrade and the shit just dosn't make sense dude.

If were not talking about an exact switch and DeRozan is playing his usual 40 min and taking his usual inefficient shots than now you have a guy taking a large number of shots at inefficient rate. Add on the bad defense and i'm just not sure how having DeRozan is an improvement in any sense.

Either way the shit don't make sense bruh.

Lol. So DeRozan will be relegated to being a 10ppg scorer in the 90s, but Myers and even more Pippens offensive production will have no impact if they play in DeRozan era? And DeRozan is a 4 time Allstar?

I must say, you guys are the reason we have so many Lebron James trolls running around. I bet if I asked you what MJs numbers would look like you will probably say they'd probably be 38-39ppg on 62% shooting am I right? I cant with you guys lol.

[Reggie43]

Derozan in the 90s would be what? An ineffiecient 20+ppg scorer? Would that be enough for the Bulls to win it all especially considering his aforementioned inefficiency and shot selection? Lowry would be a worse fit given that they have BJ at that spot already.

Im not even sure if these guys would be perennial allstars in a slow paced, more physical era considering that guys like Ron Harper and Rod Strickland never made it even once and you could argue they were better than both prime for prime.

[Lebron23]

Derozan in the 90s would be what? An ineffiecient 20+ppg scorer? Would that be enough for the Bulls to win it all especially considering his aforementioned inefficiency and shot selection? Lowry would be a worse fit given that they have BJ at that spot already.

Im not even sure if these guys would be perennial allstars in a slow paced, more physical era considering that guys like Ron Harper and Rod Strickland never made it even once and you could argue they were better than both prime for prime.

Strickland had drug issues. He should have been an all star in 1998

[Bronbron23]

Lol. So DeRozan will be relegated to being a 10ppg scorer in the 90s, but Myers and even more Pippens offensive production will have no impact if they play in DeRozan era? And DeRozan is a 4 time Allstar?

I must say, you guys are the reason we have so many Lebron James trolls running around. I bet if I asked you what MJs numbers would look like you will probably say they'd probably be 38-39ppg on 62% shooting am I right? I cant with you guys lol.

If he's taking myers exact spot with the exact same minutes then yes. Maybe you didn't finish school but if a player scores 20 points a game and he plays 38 min and you reduce his minutes in half hiw many points would you say he would score? Your problem isn't with me dude it's with basic math:facepalm

[Bronbron23]

Lol. So DeRozan will be relegated to being a 10ppg scorer in the 90s, but Myers and even more Pippens offensive production will have no impact if they play in DeRozan era? And DeRozan is a 4 time Allstar?

I must say, you guys are the reason we have so many Lebron James trolls running around. I bet if I asked you what MJs numbers would look like you will probably say they'd probably be 38-39ppg on 62% shooting am I right? I cant with you guys lol.

And as far mj goes it depends. If he's in an offense that uses alot of on and off ball movement like the triangle then he probably scores 2-3 more points because of pace and the easier rules. So maybe around 33-35pts a game on a little better efficiency. If mj is playing in ball dominant role like harden and alot players of today do then yes he could definitely score 38-40 points a game. He wouldn't win that way though. Harden just had a couole seasons of around 35. You don't think if you threw mj in a similar system he couldn't score 2 or 3 more points a game than james harden?

[97 bulls]

If he's taking myers exact spot with the exact same minutes then yes. Maybe you didn't finish school but if a player scores 20 points a game and he plays 38 min and you reduce his minutes in half hiw many points would you say he would score? Your problem isn't with me dude it's with basic math:facepalm

I didn't know we were getting technical. I see what you're saying. Ok, what would DeRozans numbers look like if he played the same amount of minutes as he does today?

[97 bulls]

And as far mj goes it depends. If he's in an offense that uses alot of on and off ball movement like the triangle then he probably scores 2-3 more points because of pace and the easier rules. So maybe around 33-35pts a game on a little better efficiency. If mj is playing in ball dominant role like harden and alot players of today do then yes he could definitely score 38-40 points a game. He wouldn't win that way though. Harden just had a couole seasons of around 35. You don't think if you threw mj in a similar system he couldn't score 2 or 3 more points a game than james harden?

I do. I absolutely feel Jordan gets a boost in production in todays league.I'm just trying to find some scale on your reasoning. That why I asked for you to provide Myers and Pippen production in todays league. With the same number of minutes they played on the Bulls.

[Bronbron23]

I didn't know we were getting technical. I see what you're saying. Ok, what would DeRozans numbers look like if he played the same amount of minutes as he does today?

If he played the same amount of minutes than maybe he scores 2 or 3 points less on 2 or 3 less fg%. It was an era were pace was lower and scoring was harder so that puts him at around 19-20 pts on 39-40% fg.

I'm sorry that's not very good and that's my problem. Either he's taking myers exact minutes and he scores around 10 pts a game which is only 3 more points a game than myers in the 94 playoffs or he's playing his regular 35-38 minutes and he's hijacking a large part of your fairly efficient offense with his inefficient play. On top of that he can't defend for shit. Either way i don't see how DeRozan is helping the 94 bulls get anywhere close to winning a chip.

[97 bulls]

If he played the same amount of minutes than maybe he scores 2 or 3 points less on 2 or 3 less fg%. It was an era were pace was lower and scoring was harder so that puts him at around 19-20 pts on 39-40% fg.

I'm sorry that's not very good and that's my problem. Either he's taking myers exact minutes and he scores around 10 pts a game which is only 3 more points a game than myers in the 94 playoffs or he's playing his regular 35-38 minutes and he's hijacking a large part of your fairly efficient offense with his inefficient play. On top of that he can't defend for shit. Either way i don't see how DeRozan is helping the 94 bulls get anywhere close to winning a chip.

Ok. I cant argue with that. Who would you take to start a franchise. Pete Myers or Drmar DeRozan? Gun to your head.

[Bronbron23]

Ok. I cant argue with that. Who would you take to start a franchise. Pete Myers or Drmar DeRozan? Gun to your head.

Lol DeRozan is definitely the lesser of the 2 evils. I never thought myers was better than DeRozan. I just think on a contender he's a better fit because he knows his limited roll and will play it. DeRozan on the other hand thinks he's a superstar. He wants his 17-20 inefficient shots and that's not gonna win you a ring.

[Airupthere]

Lol DeRozan is definitely the lesser of the 2 evils. I never thought myers was better than DeRozan. I just think on a contender he's a better fit because he knows his limited roll and will play it. DeRozan on the other hand thinks he's a superstar. He wants his 17-20 inefficient shots and that's not gonna win you a ring.

I can see your point. That was Pippen’s team when jordan left. You cant just plug and play demar and expect others to have good chemistry with him. The rest earned their stripes and were riding on a whole lot of momentum. I can see that they may beat the knicks, but theyre not beating the rockets

[Bronbron23]

I do. I absolutely feel Jordan gets a boost in production in todays league.I'm just trying to find some scale on your reasoning. That why I asked for you to provide Myers and Pippen production in todays league. With the same number of minutes they played on the Bulls.

Myers doesn't do much more than he did back then. Roll players always gonna play their roll. Pippen is an interesting one. Unlike most mj fans i'm pretty high on pip so i feel like he'd definitely be a problem today. I say he's around 2-3 more points better because of pace and rules so that's around 25 pts a game. The one knock on pip would be his 3 point game but later in his career he got a better from 3. in this era with more focus on the three i don't see why pip wouldn't be at least respectable from three.

[Bronbron23]

I can see your point. That was Pippen’s team when jordan left. You cant just plug and play demar and expect others to have good chemistry with him. The rest earned their stripes and were riding on a whole lot of momentum. I can see that they may beat the knicks, but theyre not beating the rockets

Yeah given he dosn't screw up the chemistry i can see them beating the knicks. Definitely don't see them beating houston and even pacers in the ECF would be tough. They were bigger than the knicks and just as physical. Playing the knicks in 7 and then a long series with the pacers is gonna take its toll physically, especially back then.

[LeCola]

Sorry did you ask?

Put Demar Derozan with the 2010-11 Miami Heat?

Of course, they would beat Mavs, he would guard Terry and Barea better than Lebron.

[RogueBorg]

They almost won a chip with Pete Myers, who averaged 1-1-1 in the 1995 Playoffs. Any slight upgrade and they win the chip. Easily win with Klay or Kyle Lowry.

They didn't come close to winning a chip with Pete Meyers in '94 or '95. They got bounced in the second round genius.

[RogueBorg]

Ok. I cant argue with that. Who would you take to start a franchise. Pete Myers or Drmar DeRozan? Gun to your head.

I'm the GM and I have to choose between Meyers, Derozan or the gun? I'm taking the gun.

[Shooter]

Lol. So DeRozan will be relegated to being a 10ppg scorer in the 90s, but Myers and even more Pippens offensive production will have no impact if they play in DeRozan era? And DeRozan is a 4 time Allstar?

I must say, you guys are the reason we have so many Lebron James trolls running around. I bet if I asked you what MJs numbers would look like you will probably say they'd probably be 38-39ppg on 62% shooting am I right? I cant with you guys lol.

Facts. You're the only MJ fan poster on this site that actually makes me respect MJ more, because you're honest about shit. These other fakers make me roast MJ even more :lol

[Shooter]

Which 90s guards were better than DeMar Derozan, a top 15 guard in the modern era?

[HoopsNY]

Which 90s guards were better than DeMar Derozan, a top 15 guard in the modern era?

MJ, Miller, Clyde, Richmond, Lewis, Drazen, Allen, Jones, Dumars.

[BigShotBob]

MJ, Miller, Clyde, Richmond, Lewis, Drazen, Allen, Jones, Dumars.

Sprewell, Houston, Rider, Smith to name a few more

[Bronbron23]

Which 90s guards were better than DeMar Derozan, a top 15 guard in the modern era?

Mj
Clyde
Miller
Mullins
Hornacek
Stockton
Penny
Tim hardaway
Porter
Harper
Iverson
Ray allen
Houston
Sprewell
Drazen
Richmond
Payton
Strickland

Shit take your pick dude.

[Shooter]

Mj (maybe)
Clyde (maybe)
Miller (no)
Mullins (no)
Hornacek (fu** no)
Stockton (no)
Penny (no)
Tim hardaway (no)
Porter (fu** no)
Harper (no)
Iverson (no)
Ray allen (no)
Houston (no)
Sprewell (no)
Drazen (no)
Richmond (maybe)
Payton (maybe)
Strickland (no)

Shit take your pick dude.

So Demar's a legit top 5 guard in the 90s. Thanks

[Shooter]

MJ, Miller, Clyde, Richmond, Lewis, Drazen, Allen, Jones, Dumars.

That's god awfully embarrasing :lol

You have to be a pro Lebron troll masquerading as an MJ fan. There's no other way to slice it. That is the most embarrassing top 10 position list I've ever seen in my life.

[Bronbron23]

So Demar's a legit top 5 guard in the 90s. Thanks

Sure bud. Whatever makes you feel better

[BigShotBob]

So Demar's a legit top 5 guard in the 90s. Thanks

Maybe next to MJ.

Reported.

[Shooter]

Maybe next to MJ.

Reported.

Welfare fan alt spotted :lol How did this one not get banned?

[Shooter]

Do they win the championship? Derozan's best statistical season in his career. Bulls won 55 games with Pete Myers replacing Jordan.

Yes, they definitely do

[TheCorporation]

Do they win the championship? Derozan's best statistical season in his career. Bulls won 55 games with Pete Myers replacing Jordan.

Jordan's weakness was the Detroit Pistons who eliminated him three years in a row, 88, 89, 90. Demar would not suffer this fate and would win a chip in 94

[AirBonner]

Imagine derozan only having to worry about John Stockton

[Bawkish]

Jordan's weakness was the Detroit Pistons who eliminated him three years in a row, 88, 89, 90. Demar would not suffer this fate and would win a chip in 94

MJ's weakness is not the Pistons. He had no problems whooping their a$$ on a regular basis. They just slowed him down due to aggressive and rough play style bordering on flagrancy. Had they matched up in today's rules, he'd be sweeping their a$$ 3 times in a row

[GimmeThat]

maybe with Larry Brown as the coach, you saw what Jackson did to Ron Harper

[Axe]

maybe with Larry Brown as the coach, you saw what Jackson did to Ron Harper
Where did you jerk off the past 12 months? :ohwell:

[aj1987]

MJ's weakness is not the Pistons. He had no problems whooping their a$$ on a regular basis. They just slowed him down due to aggressive and rough play style bordering on flagrancy. Had they matched up in today's rules, he'd be sweeping their a$$ 3 times in a row

Is that why the gambling addicted dad killer take only 8 shots in a must win game 5? Outscored by 8 in the 4th, when 1-9 scored only 4 points, IIRC.

[BigShotBob]

Is that why the gambling addicted dad killer take only 8 shots in a must win game 5? Outscored by 8 in the 4th, when 1-9 scored only 4 points, IIRC.

2011

[ELITEpower23]

https://i.postimg.cc/bvpY3040/20211112-085939.jpg

I'm just saying...

[3ba11]

Non-dominant players like pippen/kukoc need a player to completely carry them - another player of their caliber like derozan would be overkill and unproductive and probably peak at a Raptors level.. Derozan also holds the ball a point guard amount (5+ minutes), so he would destroy fellow ball-handler like Pippen - they wouldn't fit together just like any 2 ballhandlers don't fit together.. bball 101

[ELITEpower23]

Non-dominant players like pippen/kukoc need a player to completely carry them - another player of their caliber like derozan would be overkill and unproductive and probably peak at a Raptors level.. Derozan also holds the ball a point guard amount (5+ minutes), so he would destroy fellow ball-handler like Pippen - they wouldn't fit together just like any 2 ballhandlers don't fit together.. bball 101

Non-dominant players like Jordan need a player to completely carry them in rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. MJ just shot the ball 30 times a game and people are surprised he had the majority of the points? :oldlol: bball 101

[3ba11]

Non-dominant players like Jordan need a player to completely carry them in rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. MJ just shot the ball 30 times a game and people are surprised he had the majority of the points? :oldlol: bball 101


Jordan led the Pippen in total assists, blocks and steals from 88-98', while carrying the scoreboard (scoring), which is the only kind of carry-job there is - only stars can achieve elite scoring, while role players can achieve elite levels in secondary categories like rebounds, assists, steals, or blocks, which Jordan led Pippen in anyway.

[97 bulls]

Non-dominant players like Jordan need a player to completely carry them in rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. MJ just shot the ball 30 times a game and people are surprised he had the majority of the points? :oldlol: bball 101

What's more is this notion that he has to do. No, MJ WANTED to leas the league in scoring while winning a championship. He said it in one of those documentaries he did.

Look at the 92 DreamTeam. Jordan tool almost as many shots as the next two players combined. And he wasn't that efficient either.

[aj1987]

2011

Yeah, we all know that the defending Champs, led by Brick got eviscerated in a humiliating sweep in the 2nd round in 2011. :cheers:

[Axe]

Non-dominant players like pippen/kukoc need a player to completely carry them - another player of their caliber like derozan would be overkill and unproductive and probably peak at a Raptors level.. Derozan also holds the ball a point guard amount (5+ minutes), so he would destroy fellow ball-handler like Pippen - they wouldn't fit together just like any 2 ballhandlers don't fit together.. bball 101
A non-dominant player that led his team to 55 wins in 1994 and even almost toppled an eventual conference champion in 7 games. He did so while his first option was absent for the whole season. Also the very same player who averaged more ppg in his finals debut than kobe did in the 2000 finals.

[ELITEpower23]

Yikes. Eerily similar players

https://i.postimg.cc/8PLMxbGv/Demar-De-Jordan.jpg

[3ba11]

A non-dominant player that led his team to 55 wins in 1994


.


Ty Lawson did that in 2013.. Marc Gasol did that in 2015... Tons of non-dominant guys have done that, but only Pippen was pursuing a 4-peat

In the playoffs, Pippen played at the same level as 2016 Wade, who nearly made the ECF with the exact same stats as Pippen (21/5/5 and 21 PER)

[Axe]

Ty Lawson did that in 2013.. Marc Gasol did that in 2015... Tons of non-dominant guys have done that, but only Pippen was pursuing a 4-peat

In the playoffs, Pippen played at the same level as 2016 Wade, who nearly made the ECF with the exact same stats as Pippen (21/5/5 and 21 PER)
While mj couldn't without him and kobe couldn't without useful big men. :confusedshrug:

[kawhileonard2]

Derozan is like the Ben Gordon of the Bulls unless you can show me he has 5 league mvp's, 6 finals mvp's, led in scoring 10 times, turned the franchise that drafted him into a dynasty and won 2 gold medals in the olympics while never winning bronze.

[2much_knowledge]

Derozan in 1994?; chicago gets swept by houston if they manage to get there

[GimmeThat]

somehow, I think DeRozan is what OJ Mayo was hyped up to be.

[3ba11]

How is Pippen top 75 if he would be 2nd option to DeRozan and also 2nd option to Kukoc in the clutch?

How can a player be top 75 with zero instances of them having a top 75 performance?...

Giannis has the 2022 Finals.. Dirk has 2011 and Kawhi has 2019... Wade has the 2006 Finals and 2011 Finals run as 1st option... AD led the entire NBA in playoff scoring for his 2020 ring, which included domination of the future MVP Jokic.

So everyone has top 75 performances, while Pippen has a lot of performances that mirror Robert Horry's 95' Finals (18/10 on 55%) or JR Smith's 15' ECF (18/8 on 55%), or Larry Hughes' 2005 season (22/6/5 and 1st team defense) - this was Pippen's caliber - nowhere near top 75.. Only his ring count (which fueled his media awards) elevated his all-time ranking

But in reality, everyone wins 55 games like Ty Lawson in 2013 or Marc Gasol in 2015 or KJ in 89', but only Pippen gets top 75 credit for it.. it's preposterous.. And after the Bulls were no longer defending 3-peat champs (and exposed in the 94' Playoffs), they were borderline lottery in 95' until MJ returned to restore 3-peat capability.

[3ba11]

How is Pippen top 75 if he would be 2nd option to DeRozan and also 2nd option to Kukoc in the clutch?

How can a player be top 75 with zero instances of them having a top 75 performance?...

Giannis has the 2022 Finals.. Dirk has 2011 and Kawhi has 2019... Wade has the 2006 Finals and 2011 Finals run as 1st option... AD led the entire NBA in playoff scoring for his 2020 ring, which included domination of the future MVP Jokic.

So everyone has top 75 performances, while Pippen has a lot of performances that mirror Robert Horry's 95' Finals (18/10 on 55%) or JR Smith's 15' ECF (18/8 on 55%), or Larry Hughes' 2005 season (22/6/5 and 1st team defense) - this was Pippen's caliber - nowhere near top 75.. Only his ring count (which fueled his media awards) elevated his all-time ranking

But in reality, everyone wins 55 games like Ty Lawson in 2013 or Marc Gasol in 2015 or KJ in 89', but only Pippen gets top 75 credit for it.. it's preposterous.. And after the Bulls were no longer defending 3-peat champs (and exposed in the 94' Playoffs), they were borderline lottery in 95' until MJ returned to restore 3-peat capability.


https://c.tenor.com/V6msBbZABZwAAAAC/spongebob-done.gif

[aj1987]

2011

Isiah.

[JohnMax]

https://twitter.com/statmuse/status/1493424878837374976

DeMar DeRozan last 6 games:

40 PTS | 67 FG%
38 PTS | 50 FG%
35 PTS | 64 FG%
36 PTS | 68 FG%
38 PTS | 59 FG%
45 PTS | 60 FG%

That’s the longest streak of 35-point games on 50% shooting in Bulls history. MJ never did it.

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs

Kawhi's 2019 run shows the difference between DeRozan and Jordan - DeRozan was getting his shit pushed in on the regular, while a poor man's Jordan came in and won the conference with a 1-star team in 2919 just like 01' Iverson, 02/03 Kidd, 07' Lebron, 09' Dwight, 20' Butler, aka most seasons outside of Lebron's super-team years (11-18')

[3ba11]

https://twitter.com/statmuse/status/1493424878837374976

DeMar DeRozan last 6 games:

40 PTS | 67 FG%
38 PTS | 50 FG%
35 PTS | 64 FG%
36 PTS | 68 FG%
38 PTS | 59 FG%
45 PTS | 60 FG%

That’s the longest streak of 35-point games on 50% shooting in Bulls history. MJ never did it.


Nikola Vucevic last 8 games

25/12/4 on 59% (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vucevni01/gamelog/2022#712-719-sum:pgl_basic)


^^^^ far better than peak Pippen

So DeRozan had an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention and therefore never defeated maximum defensive attention/burden like MJ

Only MJ faced maximum defensive attention for his entire career by having to carry the scoring load at all times (carry-job), while everyone else in history had periods without facing max defensive attention (equal-scoring partners), which boosts efficiency and lightens the load/burden.

[Lebron23]

https://twitter.com/statmuse/status/1493424878837374976

DeMar DeRozan last 6 games:

40 PTS | 67 FG%
38 PTS | 50 FG%
35 PTS | 64 FG%
36 PTS | 68 FG%
38 PTS | 59 FG%
45 PTS | 60 FG%

That’s the longest streak of 35-point games on 50% shooting in Bulls history. MJ never did it.

GOAT Bulls shooting guard

[FireDavidKahn]

https://twitter.com/statmuse/status/1493424878837374976

DeMar DeRozan last 6 games:

40 PTS | 67 FG%
38 PTS | 50 FG%
35 PTS | 64 FG%
36 PTS | 68 FG%
38 PTS | 59 FG%
45 PTS | 60 FG%

That’s the longest streak of 35-point games on 50% shooting in Bulls history. MJ never did it.

:roll:

Lordan

[Lebron23]

:roll:

Lordan

https://clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Bulls-news-DeMar-DeRozan_s-Michael-Jordan-like-mentality-after-big-takeover-vs.jpg

[Roundball_Rock]

They could have won with Pete Myers but for the Hue Hollins phantom foul call. Championship lock with DeRozan, who would be the 2nd or 3rd best SG in the league in 94' after Drexler and maybe Richmond.

[Mr. Woke]

Why are people overrating DeMar all of a sudden?

He is a borderline HOF at best (unlike James Harden who is a guaranteed first ballot HOF).

If DeMar is so great, how come he has never made the All-NBA First Team? Unlike Harden, who has 6 All-NBA First Team selections.

[Roundball_Rock]

Why are people overrating DeMar all of a sudden?

He is a borderline HOF at best (unlike James Harden who is a guaranteed first ballot HOF).


DeRozan is in a more stacked era for guards so he got lost in the shuffle. If he played in the 90s he would have gotten more notice. He is a better player than Reggie Miller was and look at how Miller is perceived. Miller never made a second team all-NBA, never was a MVP candidate. DeMar has done both (MVP candidate this year) and already has as many all-star selections as Miller did his entire career.

[Mr. Woke]

DeRozan is in a more stacked era for guards so he got lost in the shuffle. If he played in the 90s he would have gotten more notice. He is a better player than Reggie Miller was and look at how Miller is perceived. Miller never made a second team all-NBA, never was a MVP candidate. DeMar has done both (MVP candidate this year) and already has as many all-star selections as Miller did his entire career.

He is better than Miller for sure.

Miller is one of the most overrated players of all time.

[Roundball_Rock]

He is better than Miller for sure.

Miller is one of the most overrated players of all time.

:cheers:

[97 bulls]

they could have won with pete myers but for the hue hollins phantom foul call. Championship lock with derozan, who would be the 2nd or 3rd best sg in the league in 94' after drexler and maybe richmond.

heeeeeeesssss bbbbaaaaaaaccckkk!!!!!!!

[3ba11]

DeRozan and many other players that aren't even as good as DeRozan would be 1st option over Pippen, which confirms that Pippen isn't top 75 - Pippen's stats and performance confirm that he's an Iggy-level player that was inflated to top 30 by the winning spotlight, while also reaching his ceiling alongside the most fundamentally-sound scorer of all-time - a guy that could get scoring champ amounts within a championship brand (unprecedented) that didn't allow ball-dominance/live dribbles, with the lowest turnover rate of anyone that matters.

[97 bulls]

DeRozan and many other players that aren't even as good as DeRozan would be 1st option over Pippen, which confirms that Pippen isn't top 75 - Pippen's stats and performance confirm that he's an Iggy-level player that was inflated to top 30 by the winning spotlight, while also reaching his ceiling alongside the most fundamentally-sound scorer of all-time - a guy that could get scoring champ amounts within a championship brand (unprecedented) that didn't allow ball-dominance/live dribbles, with the lowest turnover rate of anyone that matters.

For you to be so enamored with stats. You surely should feel Lebron is the GOAT. You can't make a stats argument for Jordan over James.

[RogueBorg]

For you to be so enamored with stats. You surely should feel Lebron is the GOAT. You can't make a stats argument for Jordan over James.

Yes, you absolutely can.

[97 bulls]

Yes, you absolutely can.

Please do

[3ba11]

For you to be so enamored with stats. You surely should feel Lebron is the GOAT. You can't make a stats argument for Jordan over James.


Jordan has the goat production rate - PPG, PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, usage

And the goat plus/minus and latest Raptor (https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-07-2021/IPef8B.gif)

Every new stat that gets invented shows MJ as goat

Jordan also averaged 6 more points per 100 possessions than anyone in playoff history with better efficiency on those possessions (ortg) than anyone that matters.

Everyone in history needed teammates to match or exceed their scoring for entire playoff runs, while MJ led every SERIES by at least 10 ppg (edit: there were 2 series where MJ averaged 4 and 8 more than sidekick).. This matters because equal-scoring partners attract equal defensive attention, so everyone had periods without facing maximum defensive attention - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who always defeated maximum defensive attention (always carried scoring load)

[97 bulls]

Jordan has the goat production rate - PPG, PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, usage

And the goat plus/minus and latest Raptor (https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-07-2021/IPef8B.gif)

Every new stat that gets invented shows MJ as goat

Jordan also averaged 6 more points per 100 possessions than anyone in playoff history with better efficiency on those possessions (ortg) than anyone that matters.

Everyone in history needed teammates to match or exceed their scoring for entire playoff runs, while MJ led every SERIES by at least 10 ppg (edit: there were 2 series where MJ averaged 4 and 8 more than sidekick).. Equal-scoring partners attract equal defensive attention, so everyone had periods without facing maximum defensive attention - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who always defeated maximum defensive attention (always carried scoring load)

All you did was cherrypick the stats Jordan leads in. Lol. Don't do that. Take everything in to consideration. Be it advanced, per game averages, and totals.

[3ba11]

All you did was cherrypick the stats Jordan leads in. Lol. Don't do that. Take everything in to consideration. Be it advanced, per game averages, and totals.


Jordan leads all the advanced stats, plus/minus or per game, as my previous post showed

Lebron only has longevity (playing at a lower level for longer)

And again - everyone in history needed teammates to match or exceed their scoring for entire playoff runs, while MJ led every SERIES by at least 10 ppg.. This matters because equal-scoring partners attract equal defensive attention, so everyone had periods without facing maximum defensive attention - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who always defeated maximum defensive attention (always carried scoring load)

[97 bulls]

Jordan leads all the advanced stats, plus/minus or per game, as my previous post showed

Lebron only has longevity (playing at a lower level for longer)

And again - everyone in history needed teammates to match or exceed their scoring for entire playoff runs, while MJ led every SERIES by at least 10 ppg.. This matters because equal-scoring partners attract equal defensive attention, so everyone had periods without facing maximum defensive attention - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who always defeated maximum defensive attention (always carried scoring load)

So all you did, was reiterate your cherrypicked stats bro.

[TheCorporation]

https://twitter.com/statmuse/status/1493424878837374976

DeMar DeRozan last 6 games:

40 PTS | 67 FG%
38 PTS | 50 FG%
35 PTS | 64 FG%
36 PTS | 68 FG%
38 PTS | 59 FG%
45 PTS | 60 FG%

That’s the longest streak of 35-point games on 50% shooting in Bulls history. MJ never did it.

:lol

DeMar DeJordan

[Axe]

heeeeeeesssss bbbbaaaaaaaccckkk!!!!!!!
:roll:

[CountDracula]

https://i.ibb.co/f2smGKR/5-D2-F4740-3044-431-C-AA57-5-D3-B530-EE02-E.jpg (https://ibb.co/bPkpRyh)

https://i.ibb.co/LkBM9WG/5-D8-D9665-AECD-4-EE6-9434-AC08-E64-CA177.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

[FKAri]

Putting a modern professional athlete into the stone ages that was the NBA in 1994 would have a gargantuan impact on the timeline. He'd be on the $20 bill, the city would be renamed to Demarville and a 2000 ft. replica of the Colossus of Rhodes with his face would tower over the Chicago harbor. Instead of Obama, Demar would have been the senator out of Chicago and indeed the first black president. Consequently, no drone strikes and his insightful policies would convince the aliens to make peaceful contact 7 centuries earlier than planned. Humanity would be ready to take the next step into the great beyond with Lord Demar at the helm.

[kawhileonard2]

Putting a modern professional athlete into the stone ages that was the NBA in 1994 would have a gargantuan impact on the timeline. He'd be on the $20 bill, the city would be renamed to Demarville and a 2000 ft. replica of the Colossus of Rhodes with his face would tower over the Chicago harbor. Instead of Obama, Demar would have been the senator out of Chicago and indeed the first black president. Consequently, no drone strikes and his insightful policies would convince the aliens to make peaceful contact 7 centuries earlier than planned. Humanity would be ready to take the next step into the great beyond with Lord Demar at the helm.

We have slow white Europeans now win league mvp and never won gold medal either for country.

[FKAri]

We have slow white Europeans now win league mvp and never won gold medal either for country.

You mean Jokic? Hey isn't that the guy that uppercutted Kawhy on the chin with his dicc and put him on the IL?

[Baller789]

So all you did, was reiterate your cherrypicked stats bro.

It would be nice if you actually provided proper rebuttals to his arguments.

[8Ball]

Championship.

[97 bulls]

It would be nice if you actually provided proper rebuttals to his arguments.

Going back and looking, I actually meant can you make a stats argument for James over Jordan. Because all 3ball did, was pick the stats that favored MJ. A Lebron James fan could do the same thing.

[Phoenix]

You mean Jokic? Hey isn't that the guy that uppercutted Kawhy on the chin with his dicc and put him on the IL?

https://media3.giphy.com/media/3owzW9EZI8M3sz9s5O/200.gif

[3ba11]

As you can see, regular season is meaningless, aka 94' Sonics, 07' Mavs, 09' Cavs, 16' Warriors, to name a few

The 94' Bulls won 55 (an extremely common achievement) with a 22 ppg system player and then a rebounder at 2nd option, so they didn't win based on talent - they won based on 3-peat chemistry and dynasty brand of ball.. .

But after the honeymoon period of low expectations was over in the 94' Playoffs, the REAL bulls without MJ were lottery in 95' before MJ lifted them to 3-peat again

[Phoenix]

As you can see, regular season is meaningless, aka 94' Sonics, 07' Mavs, 09' Cavs, 16' Warriors, to name a few

The 94' Bulls won 55 (an extremely common achievement) with a 22 ppg system player and then a rebounder at 2nd option, so they didn't win based on talent - they won based on 3-peat chemistry and dynasty brand of ball.. .

But after the honeymoon period of low expectations was over in the 94' Playoffs, the REAL bulls without MJ were lottery in 95' before MJ lifted them to 3-peat again

Horace Grant left Chicago for the 95 season. Had he stayed, the Bulls would have won 50+ again. You act like the 95 team wasn't missing a key member of the 94 team.

[3ba11]

Horace Grant left Chicago for the 95 season. Had he stayed, the Bulls would have won 50+ again. You act like the 95 team wasn't missing a key member of the 94 team.


HOF Kukoc > Horace

He was the only other go-to player on the bulls outside of MJ, while also being 1st option in the 2nd half or clutch outside of MJ

Ultimately, 93' MJ never had Kukoc, Kerr, Longley, or Scott Williams, so Pippen's cast was better - who cares about Horace - Shaq/Penny couldn't win with Horace in 95' just like Robinson couldn't win with Rodman - only MJ could win with those bums (3-peat)

[97 bulls]

HOF Kukoc > Horace

He was the only other go-to player on the bulls outside of MJ, while also being 1st option in the 2nd half or clutch outside of MJ

Ultimately, 93' MJ never had Kukoc, Kerr, Longley, or Scott Williams, so Pippen's cast was better - who cares about Horace - Shaq/Penny couldn't win with Horace in 95' just like Robinson couldn't win with Rodman - only MJ could win with those bums (3-peat)

But Kukoc isn't yout prototypical big. He's a tall wing player.

And you hurt your own argument. Jordan was also on that 95 team with the mighty Kukoc and Pippen. The Bulls didn't even get to the ECF. That's why they went out and got Rodman. They needed another guy that could do the dirty work that Grant used to do. You cant profess to be a person that played basketball at such a level as high as college. And boast that you're 6'7 and not have that understanding.

93 MJ had Pippen and Grant. Paxson was the first 3pt Bulls Kerr. Cartwright was Longley, and Scott Williams was on the 93 Bulls. The Bulls also had Trent Tucker in 93.

And winning 55 games in a season is not common. Typically, about 4 or 5 teams do it a year. Which is impressive in a 30 team league.

The San Antonio Spurs were one of the worse teams in the league when Robinson went down. That's how they got Duncan. A part of me really believes you're a Jordan hater. You don't represent your case well at all. In fact, you argue against yourself. Case and point your David Robinson example. The Spurs won 62 games in 96. The next year when Robinson got hurt? 20.

[ShawkFactory]

HOF Kukoc > Horace

He was the only other go-to player on the bulls outside of MJ, while also being 1st option in the 2nd half or clutch outside of MJ

Ultimately, 93' MJ never had Kukoc, Kerr, Longley, or Scott Williams, so Pippen's cast was better - who cares about Horace - Shaq/Penny couldn't win with Horace in 95' just like Robinson couldn't win with Rodman - only MJ could win with those bums (3-peat)

Both were on the 94 team. And they're a completely different type of player.

[97 bulls]

Both were on the 94 team. And they're a completely different type of player.

Jordan had Kukoc and Pippen in 95. And didn't get it done. I understand why. But 3balls arguments are dumb.

[j3lademaster]

You mean Jokic? Hey isn't that the guy that uppercutted Kawhy on the chin with his dicc and put him on the IL?
https://media.giphy.com/media/S9LOCaxy7KXr7n8hVP/giphy.gif

[3ba11]

Both were on the 94 team. And they're a completely different type of player.


93' MJ never had Kukoc, Kerr, Longley, or Scott Williams, so Pippen's cast was better - who cares about Horace - Shaq/Penny couldn't win with Horace in 95' just like Robinson couldn't win with Rodman - only MJ could win with those bums (3-peat)

95' Jordan lost because he was coming back from baseball.. He won the 98' Playoffs with Kukoc as starting PF

[97 bulls]

93' MJ never had Kukoc, Kerr, Longley, or Scott Williams, so Pippen's cast was better - who cares about Horace - Shaq/Penny couldn't win with Horace in 95' just like Robinson couldn't win with Rodman - only MJ could win with those bums (3-peat)

MJ had Kukoc and Pippen in 95.
95' Jordan lost because he was coming back from baseball.. He won the 98' Playoffs with Kukoc as starting PF
But Jordan had Rodman in 98. If Kukoc was the one checking Malone, Malone would've had an alltime great series.

[3ba11]

But Jordan had Rodman in 98. If Kukoc was thr one checking Malone, Malone would've had an alltime great series.


Malone averaged 25/11/4 on 50%, while Kukoc started every game (37 mpg) - he had several games at 42 minutes as the go-to 2nd option.

Otoh, Rodman did spot duty as the bench player that barely played 20 minutes in some of the wins.

Anyone could've replaced 36-year Rodman's 3/8 as the backup to Kukoc, so come off the bs.. The 97' and 98' Bulls won in spite of Rodman - no one else could win playing 4 on 5 offensively like that - Rodman wouldn't be playable in any Lebron lineups except maybe the 13' Heat (sufficient scoring help) and he could NEVER start

[Hey Yo]

Malone averaged 25/11/4 on 50%, while Kukoc started every game (37 mpg) - he had several games at 42 minutes as the go-to 2nd option.

Otoh, Rodman did spot duty as the bench player that barely played 20 minutes in some of the wins.

Anyone could've replaced 36-year Rodman's 3/8 as the backup to Kukoc, so come off the bs.. The 97' and 98' Bulls won in spite of Rodman - no one else could win playing 4 on 5 offensively like that - Rodman wouldn't be playable in any Lebron lineups except maybe the 13' Heat (sufficient scoring help) and he could NEVER start

When your opponent only scores 54 total points in a game.... players on both sides are going to play less minutes.

Thanks for the lesson Retardo Montalban

[Phoenix]

HOF Kukoc > Horace

He was the only other go-to player on the bulls outside of MJ, while also being 1st option in the 2nd half or clutch outside of MJ

Ultimately, 93' MJ never had Kukoc, Kerr, Longley, or Scott Williams, so Pippen's cast was better - who cares about Horace - Shaq/Penny couldn't win with Horace in 95' just like Robinson couldn't win with Rodman - only MJ could win with those bums (3-peat)

Shaq and Penny wouldn't have won with Kukoc at the 4 in place of Horace so irrelevant point. One of the major reasons the Bulls lost in 95 was because they were paper thin up-front. Horace provided interior defense and rebounding, two components that the 95 Bulls didn't have and got exposed in the playoffs. For the record, Kukoc never had a playoff series better than the 18/11 Horace hung on the Bulls, as compared to Toni's 12/7.

[97 bulls]

When your opponent only scores 54 total points in a game.... players on both sides are going to play less minutes.

Thanks for the lesson Retardo Montalban

I've told him that. He simply ignores it. I've sent him videos of every play where Rodman was on Malone in the 98 Finals and he doesn't care. He doesn't care about facts lol. Rodman shut down Malone.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Definitely an upgrade from Myers.

Wouldn't trust Demar in big games though. Especially in an era with rules tougher for perimeter players.

If Chicago got by New York and Indiana, I don't believe they would beat the Rockets. With Jordan, the Bulls struggled verse Houston every year... Without him? Good luck.

[imdaman99]

This is the hard-nosed Knicks defense we're talking about, Derozan would be a net negative.
The Bulls get worse in the playoffs against good teams with Derozan than without him, I have no doubt about it.

Have to agree with myself here lol. Thought Derozan turned a corner this year with all the clutch shots he hit......... but 1st game playoffs and he is back being a net negative. I think I stand firm that they lose in 5 instead of 7 with Derozan instead of an average joe.

[97 bulls]

Have to agree with myself here lol. Thought Derozan turned a corner this year with all the clutch shots he hit......... but 1st game playoffs and he is back being a net negative. I think I stand firm that they lose in 5 instead of 7 with Derozan instead of an average joe.

Lol. Only Jordan fans would think a more talented player would be a net negative. A guy who's a better passer, similar defensively, a better rebounder, on top of being a much better scorer would be a net negative. Especially when Myers and Derozan basically play the same position.

[3ba11]

DeRozan already had 60-win teams in Toronto and did nothing

Now he has 2 perennial all-star teammates on the Bulls and is about to get swept in 1st Round

[CountDracula]

“The War is over Baby Boy(DeRozan), go with God Brother, go with God!”

https://i.ibb.co/bBQKFgn/8-AFAC033-528-E-459-B-8-CB2-9-A8-C419-F5-D52.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

https://i.ibb.co/Q8g4tCX/7-B29-AA9-E-B431-4-D16-B63-D-BE365687-A3-F9.jpg (https://ibb.co/M8vmQG9)

[Shooter]

Instant chip in 94 with Demar over Jordan

[CountDracula]

https://i.ibb.co/37JCcYX/12-B6-F58-C-1-FBD-456-E-BD98-E4466982-C9-D4.jpg (https://ibb.co/R95Dc4n)

https://i.ibb.co/K51XYBf/36-DB4814-E362-498-B-AB97-D760367-FD796.jpg (https://ibb.co/PrSNRJP)

https://i.ibb.co/mtkgzV1/BFBC7235-C09-C-4727-8-CA1-4702-A6492-F14.jpg (https://ibb.co/QnLtm3z)

https://i.ibb.co/R0vXmwr/C2-C380-BA-8711-4-D78-B9-F6-8-A07-F2-A4-FCE8.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

[CountDracula]

https://i.ibb.co/L8LSdL7/E2-A19-F8-C-4-E71-43-C6-A456-F1327831-D6-CC.jpg (https://ibb.co/Dtx4fx2)

https://i.ibb.co/6JVz3SM/7905-ACD5-F3-BD-4772-BCDE-ED81-BDBCF8-C0.jpg (https://ibb.co/2YmxDr9)

https://i.ibb.co/z4W8MbW/FB0315-BC-458-A-4-E83-89-B5-4-CCD30-AF375-C.jpg (https://ibb.co/FDksrJk)

https://i.ibb.co/yk9zXdm/AA3-B7-DA4-E429-46-FD-8587-DDFC88-CB574-C.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

[CountDracula]

https://i.ibb.co/5KsRjwL/A4-AC307-D-2484-487-B-8-E47-ECF876-AA75-BC.jpg (https://ibb.co/NTWyNbK)

https://i.ibb.co/Wcvf8gF/03-D4-D5-AB-3995-426-A-8360-227-C6-F7769-B5.jpg (https://ibb.co/CnKQChv)

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