It's the opinion of the most respected statisticians that...

[3ball]

.
The 11' Heat and 15' Cavs had the most on-paper talent since 1980, up until the 17' Warriors:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-15-2019/hYQBCO.gif


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/superteams-like-the-warriors-usually-underperform-will-the-kevin-durant-era-be-different/


So the "comp" argument is bogus when everyone knows that Lebron's teams had the most talent in the league, aka "not 6, not 7"

[DMAVS41]

Wait, you agree that Jordan had 4 of the 11 most talented teams ever?

Hard to use 15 against Lebron given reality.

[3ball]

Wait, you agree that Jordan had 4 of the 11 most talented teams ever?

Hard to use 15 against Lebron given reality.
538 considered the 15' Cavs more talented than the 15' Warriors, and Vegas favored those Cavs in the pre-season and pre-playoffs.

So Lebron's 16' win means nothing because his team was considered more talented and favored initially - that's why the 15' team is important

[highwhey]

jordan - http://www.racketboy.com/retro/gunstar-3.jpg

lebron - https://rockstarintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/when-will-red-dead-redemption-2-release-on-pc_feature.jpg

[DMAVS41]

538 considered the 15' Cavs more talented than the 15' Warriors, and Vegas favored those Cavs in the pre-season and pre-playoffs.

So Lebron's 16' win means nothing because his team was infact more talented and more favored initially - that's why the 15' team is important

Sure, but does reality matter to you?

For example, does it matter to you that Love/Kyrie were hurt for the Finals?

Are you blaming Lebron for their injuries?

Also, cool...MJ's rings have a lot less shine now that we all agree he had 4 of the 10 most talented teams ever.

:confusedshrug:

[3ball]

Sure, but does reality matter to you?

For example, does it matter to you that Love/Kyrie were hurt for the Finals?

Are you blaming Lebron for their injuries?

Also, cool...MJ's rings have a lot less shine now that we all agree he had 4 of the 10 most talented teams ever.

:confusedshrug:
538 considered the 15' Cavs more talented than the 15' Warriors, and Vegas favored those Cavs in the pre-season and pre-playoffs.

So Lebron's 16' win means nothing because his team was infact more talented and more favored initially - that's why the 15' team is important

[SouBeachTalents]

Is this dude schizophrenic? He literally just posted this in another thread

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13924729&postcount=17

So the list is both legitimate AND it's garbage. At this point, he's pretty much the real life version of this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULgQebsBe8k

[Kblaze8855]

At one point in the 80s the Lakers started 3 hall of famers and an all star with a 30 year old MVP, a DPOY, and an extra hall of famer all off the bench. Only one of them was over 30....Kareem...who was still mvp caliber. But the 98 Bulls had more talent on paper?

[Smoke117]

1-9

[3ball]

Is this dude schizophrenic? He literally just posted this in another thread

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13924729&postcount=17

So the list is both legitimate AND it's garbage. At this point, he's pretty much the real life version of this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULgQebsBe8k
that's a different list than this one - that list measures teamwork, this list measures on-paper talent

so you apparently can't read or have very poor comprehension.

no illiterates or remedials itt

[DMAVS41]

538 considered the 15' Cavs more talented than the 15' Warriors, and Vegas favored those Cavs in the pre-season and pre-playoffs.

So Lebron's 16' win means nothing because his team was infact more talented and more favored initially - that's why the 15' team is important

What are you talking about?

Kyrie/Love were both injured in 2015...if you take them off the team...the talent rating wouldn't even make the top 50.

You talked out of your ass, yet again, got owned...just take the L.

[3ball]

What are you talking about?

Kyrie/Love were both injured in 2015...if you take them off the team...the talent rating wouldn't even make the top 50.

You talked out of your ass, yet again, got owned...just take the L.
The 15' Cavs were considered more talented and favored initially before the injuries, so their win when healthy in 16' means nothing

[DMAVS41]

The 15' Cavs were considered more talented and favored initially before the injuries, so their win when healthy in 16' means nothing

This makes no sense, but...:cheers:

[SouBeachTalents]

This makes no sense, but...:cheers:
You're dealing with someone so delusional he said that Love played better than Dray in the '16 Finals :oldlol:

[AirBonner]

538 is about as legit of a source as a tweaked out homeless bum

[AlternativeAcc.]

Appealing to authority AND resorting to "on paper" arguments, while posting a pic that shows "on paper" Jordan had the most talented teams of anyone in history, and that lebron did indeed face the greatest teams of all time "on paper"

Desperation is a crazy thing :oldlol:

[3ball]

Appealing to authority AND resorting to "on paper" arguments, while posting a pic that shows "on paper" Jordan had the most talented teams of anyone in history, and that lebron did indeed face the greatest teams of all time "on paper"

Desperation is a crazy thing :oldlol:
the list shows LeBron's teams > Jordan's teams on paper

but massively underachieved their offensive expectation

but none of you guys have good reading comp

[Dray n Klay]

the list shows LeBron's teams > Jordan's teams on paper

but massively underachieved their offensive expectation

but none of you guys have good reading comp

Who on the 2016 Cavs were all stars?

[3ball]

Who on the 2016 Cavs were all stars?
most of the starting lineup were perennial all-stars

who on the 1991 or 1998 teams were all-stars

[DMAVS41]

the list shows LeBron's teams > Jordan's teams on paper

but massively underachieved their offensive expectation

but none of you guys have good reading comp

It actually doesn't. Lebron only has 3 teams on that list...and one of them doesn't count because of the injuries to Kyrie/Love.

Tell us more though.

[3ball]

It actually doesn't. Lebron only has 3 teams on that list...and one of them doesn't count because of the injuries to Kyrie/Love.

Tell us more though.
you sound like a mental patient

you were already destroyed for the 80th time.. now you're just spouting off at the mouth

[DMAVS41]

you sound like a mental patient

you were already destroyed for the 80th time.. now you're just spouting off at the mouth

Yes, I'm the one that sounds off.

You are getting absolutely destroyed...

[AlternativeAcc.]

the list shows LeBron's teams > Jordan's teams on paper

but massively underachieved their offensive expectation

but none of you guys have good reading comp
On paper doesnt outweigh how teams actually performed, those Bulls teams had GOAT on paper talent and proved it. Lebrons teammates became shell of themselves, which lowers all of lebrons teams on the list. Injuries, players becoming washed up etc.

This confirms that Jordan had the most help and luck of any player in NBA history by a significant margin.

[3ball]

On paper doesnt outweigh how teams actually performed, those Bulls teams had GOAT on paper talent and proved it. Lebrons teammates became shell of themselves, which lowers all of lebrons teams on the list. Injuries, players becoming washed up etc.

This confirms that Jordan had the most help and luck of any player in NBA history by a significant margin.
reduced Wade = prime Pippen

the stats show this

[Vino24]

reduced Wade = prime Pippen

the stats show this
But wade never guarded the best opposing team

[Shogon]

All I have to say about 3ball is the same thing I always say.

It doesn't matter if you're trolling or not. We're so far past that even mattering at this point that it's hard to put into words.

If you're trolling, you desperately need counseling.
If you're not trolling, you desperately need counseling.

Either way, the relentless obsession screams that there is a major void in your life. Hopefully it's not a permanent physical disability or something, IDK. But I hope you get it fixed whatever it is.

LeBron Derangement Syndrome. LDS.

[AlternativeAcc.]

reduced Wade = prime Pippen

the stats show this
The stats dont show defense or injuries, Wade was empty stats, Pippen was the exact opposite

Not to mention MJ and Pippen played together for many years and developed next level.chemistry. lebron was never so lucky to be able to grow and build chemistry with another all-time great from a young age. Mo William's isnt exactly a HOFer.

[3ball]

The stats dont show defense or injuries, Wade was empty stats, Pippen was the exact opposite

Not to mention MJ and Pippen played together for many years and developed next level.chemistry. lebron was never so lucky to be able to grow and build chemistry with another all-time great from a young age. Mo William's isnt exactly a HOFer.
pippen's stats were a lot worse than wade's

and chemistry with all Lebron's teams get worse with time - look at every team he's ever been on - they peak early, and then it's downhill until a big crater at the end..

Lebron's style of turning teammates into spot-up shooters can't build chemistry, teammates or teams, so he needs to team-hop for ready-made stars/teams/favorite status.. his style can't build shit.

[AlternativeAcc.]

pippen's stats were a lot worse than wade's

and chemistry with all Lebron's teams get worse with time - look at every team he's ever been on - they peak early, and then it's downhill until a big crater at the end..

Lebron's style of turning teammates into spot-up shooters can't build chemistry, teammates or teams, so he needs to team-hop for ready-made stars/teams/favorite status.. his style can't build shit.
You just touched on Lebrons bad luck

His teams flamed out due to injuries, players becoming washed up, and poor GMing

Jordan has the MOST luck and never dealt with any of this, it was the opposite for him

[3ball]

You just touched on Lebrons bad luck

His teams flamed out due to injuries, players becoming washed up, and poor GMing

Jordan has the MOST luck and never dealt with any of this, it was the opposite for him
Pippen was injured in 1998 and Jordan carried them to the ring

and you miss the point - even WITH pippen, Jordan still had to carry the goat load (scoring champ for every ring - the biggest load possible).. whereas LeBron has a 3rd star, so his stats don't compare

[Trollsmasher]

considering LeBron had 12.5 BPM on his own in 09/10, we can conclude that the entire roster being projected at 11.7 for 10/11 means that the roster sans LeBron had a negative impact on winning:eek:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Pippen was injured in 1998 and Jordan carried them to the ring

and you miss the point - even WITH pippen, Jordan still had to carry the goat load (scoring champ for every ring - the biggest load possible).. whereas LeBron has a 3rd star, so his stats don't compare
Jordan HAD to carry a GOAT load? (4 rebs and 2 assists..)

Harden is almost averaging a 38 point triple double, who cares if Jordan scored 30-33 with elite defensive help, best role players, and goat coach :sleeping

That's a weak GOAT standard

[3ball]

Jordan HAD to carry a GOAT load? (4 rebs and 2 assists..)

Harden is almost averaging a 38 point triple double, who cares if Jordan scored 30-33 with elite defensive help, best role players, and goat coach :sleeping

That's a weak GOAT standard
Harden is doing more than Lebron ever did - that's true - but MJ scored just as much while also being the best defender ever at SG

so looks like MJ did the most..

[AlternativeAcc.]

Harden is doing more than Lebron ever did - that's true - but MJ scored just as much while also being the best defender ever at SG

so looks like MJ did the most..
Lebron led his team in every stat category while beating a 73 win team in the finals
WHILE being the defensive anchor

Safe to say Jordan or Harden have never and will never come close to that. Nobody will

[3ball]

Lebron led his team in every stat category while beating a 73 win team in the finals
WHILE being the defensive anchor

Safe to say Jordan or Harden have never and will never come close to that. Nobody will
93' MJ averaged 11 more points than Lebron did in those Finals - that beats Lebron's tiny edges in defensive rebounds and assists.

and lebron's teammate scored just as much as him, so it wasn't a carry job, whereas Jordan scored 20 ppg more than his 2nd option (true carry-job)

regarding the 73-win team thing - everyone beats curry/klay in the playoffs... and kyrie > curry, so it easy - anyone would've done it and much easier.. Lebron should get knocked for needing 7 games to beat a couple guys that can barely dunk

[SouBeachTalents]

93' MJ averaged 11 more points than Lebron did in those Finals - that beats Lebron's tiny edges in defensive rebounds and assists.

and lebron's teammate scored just as much as him, so it wasn't a carry job, whereas Jordan scored 20 ppg more than his 2nd option (true carry-job)

regarding the 73-win team thing - everyone beats curry/klay in the playoffs... and kyrie > curry, so it easy - anyone would've done it and much easier.. Lebron should get knocked for needing 7 games to beat a couple guys that can barely dunk
Nah, that shit applies to the Drexler Blazers, Barkely Suns, Payton/Kemp Sonics and Malone/Stockton Jazz. Those teams legit got beat by everybody :oldlol:

[3ball]

Nah, that shit applies to the Drexler Blazers, Barkely Suns, Payton/Kemp Sonics and Malone/Stockton Jazz. Those teams legit got beat by everybody :oldlol:
curry/klay aren't championship caliber - Lebron would've beaten them in 2015 with healthy Kyrie

anyone beats them... heck, Drexler/Porter destroy Curry/Klay, let alone Magic/Worthy or Kemp/Payton

[Hey Yo]

most of the starting lineup were perennial all-stars

who on the 1991 or 1998 teams were all-stars
Pippen was All-NBA for every Bulls title.

5 out of the 6 wins he's was named at both ends of the floor.

And you wanna talk about perennial All-stars?? :oldlol:

[3ball]

Pippen was All-NBA for every Bulls title.

5 out of the 6 wins he's was named at both ends of the floor.

And you wanna talk about perennial All-stars?? :oldlol:
pippen wasn't all-nba in 1991, only all-defense

he was nothing in 1991 - not even an all-star... < 19' Siakam…. and a lot less than 20' Ingram

91' Pippen needed to be carried (see MJ's stats that year)… infact, every Pippen needed to be carried (MJ scored 10-30 more than Pippen in every series and was scoring champ for every ring)

[Hey Yo]

93' MJ averaged 11 more points than Lebron did in those Finals - that beats Lebron's tiny edges in defensive rebounds and assists.

and lebron's teammate scored just as much as him, so it wasn't a carry job, whereas Jordan scored 20 ppg more than his 2nd option (true carry-job)

regarding the 73-win team thing - everyone beats curry/klay in the playoffs... and kyrie > curry, so it easy - anyone would've done it and much easier.. Lebron should get knocked for needing 7 games to beat a couple guys that can barely dunk
MJ 6 game avg. 33fga - 8fta

James 7GM avg. 23fga - 7fta

[3ball]

MJ 6 game avg. 33fga - 8fta

James 7GM avg. 23fga - 7fta
same can be said of LeBron's assists (he holds the ball much longer)

ultimately, MJ's shot-happy approach > Lebron's ball-dominant approach....

it controls games better by adding directly to the scoreboard - scoring is the best way to control the game and momentum

[Hey Yo]

[QUOTE=3ball]pippen wasn't all-nba in 1991,only all-defense

he was nothing in 1991 - not even an all-star... < 19' Siakam

[3ball]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:facepalm :facepalm
bulls had the #7 defense in 1991

so MJ won with less defensive help than his opponent in ECF and Finals

and obviously far less offensive help

ultimately, MJ's 1991 ring is the goat ring because he beat the "at-the-time" goat - Magic was goat at that time, and MJ's triumph signaled a changing of the guard... Lebron never did that - he only ever got destroyed in the championship because he's a choking loser

[SouBeachTalents]

bulls had the #7 defense in 1991

so MJ won with less defensive help than his opponent in ECF and Finals

and obviously far less offensive help

ultimately, MJ's 1991 ring is the goat ring because he beat the "at-the-time" goat - Magic was goat at that time, and MJ's triumph signaled a changing of the guard... Lebron never did that - he only ever got destroyed in the championship because he's a choking loser
LeBron beat the "at-the-time" goat 73 win Warriors in the Finals

[Hey Yo]

bulls had the #7 defense in 1991

so MJ won with less defensive help than his opponent in ECF and Finals

and obviously far less offensive help
Doesn't change the fact that Pippen was named to an All-NBA team that year.

[3ball]

Doesn't change the fact that Pippen was named to an All-NBA team that year.
but what difference does it make, since MJ only had the #7 defense help overall

and therefore won with less defensive help than his opponent in ECF and Finals... and obviously far less offensive help

otoh, Lebron loses with more offensive and defensive help than opponent... lol