The end of the post-up?

[DoctorP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4mVWppZRkk

When Rick Carlisle told the media he didn't want to post up Kristaps Porzingis, it sparked a huge debate about the state of the NBA in general, and whether analytics misinterpreted certain plays as inefficient. Coach Nick goes in deep to explain how the post up hasn't been valued properly and why it should never go away.

[AirTupac]

Coach Nick said OP should go away.

[FireDavidKahn]

It's because KP is one of the worst post up players by far.

0.57 PPP
8.9th percentile

People just assume that any tall person should post up. KP is god awful at all and Carlisle is right.

Embiid on the other hand has the opposite problem. He is currently leading the league in post ups per game but he is bad at shooting. He needs to cut it out.

[DoctorP]

Coach Nick said OP should go away.

did i hurt your feelings for being a dunce?

https://media3.giphy.com/media/cQnX5cwa1YrzG/giphy.gif

too bad.

[DoctorP]

It's because KP is one of the worst post up players by far.

0.57 PPP
8.9th percentile

People just assume that any tall person should post up. KP is god awful at all and Carlisle is right.

Embiid on the other hand has the opposite problem. He is currently leading the league in post ups per game but he is bad at shooting. He needs to cut it out.

hmm. good observation.

[3ball]

Past Eras

post-ups > drive-and-kick for 2-pointers


Today's Era

post-ups < drive-and-kick for 3-pointers



So Carlisle is wrong about why post-ups went away

in past eras, post-ups were more efficient than driving-and-kicking for 2-pointers - the only reason post-ups went away is because drive-and-kick for 3-pointers is more efficient than post-ups, so everyone does that now instead... but if you took away the 3-point line so teams can only drive-and-kick for 2-pointers, everyone would go back to the more efficient post-ups again

[Bronbron23]

Its also a result of the rules now. The nba has made it way easier for perimeter players to score because defenders cant touch or even get near them to contest shots. Meanwhile in the post defenders can bang, hold, hand check, arm bar and contest everything without worrying about banging into them once the shots gone. Bring back physical perimeter defence to make all things fair again and teams would use the post more.

[FKAri]

Past Eras

post-ups > drive-and-kick for 2-pointers


Today's Era

post-ups < drive-and-kick for 3-pointers



So Carlisle is wrong about why post-ups went away

in past eras, post-ups were more efficient than driving-and-kicking for 2-pointers - the only reason post-ups went away is because drive-and-kick for 3-pointers is more efficient than post-ups, so everyone does that now instead... but if you took away the 3-point line so teams can only drive-and-kick for 2-pointers, everyone would go back to the more efficient post-ups again
There's also the fact that a zone defense can easily crowd the post whenever they like without having to commit to a hard double.

[fourkicks44]

Its also a result of the rules now. The nba has made it way easier for perimeter players to score because defenders cant touch or even get near them to contest shots. Meanwhile in the post defenders can bang, hold, hand check, arm bar and contest everything without worrying about banging into them once the shots gone. Bring back physical perimeter defence to make all things fair again and teams would use the post more.

Bingo.

[warriorfan]

Post play has been dead for some time.

[fourkicks44]

I would actually like to see year by year stats for the increase in 4 point plays since the invention of the three point line. Averages, because the increase in 3 pt shots over time obviously means more total fouls called on those shots.

It is the way the refs are calling it now.

If post players were getting the same diligence in calls you would be seeing an absorbent amount of 3 point plays in the paint and the attractiveness would see an increase in post ups.

I honestly blame Kawhi and Zaza for this tbh.

[Jasper]

I would like to see Giannis do a Tim Duncan on the left wing turnaround backboard shot....

It would complete his game.


Posting up is another weapon

[LAmbruh]

posting up is for slow unathletic players with poor handles who can't beat players off the dribble

[DoctorP]

good stuff, crew. quality shit.

insidehoops aint dead yet.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/qrURsXtrfKGek/giphy.gif

[Bronbron23]

posting up is for slow unathletic players with poor handles who can't beat players off the dribble
This is one of the worst takes ive ever heard :facepalm

[DoctorP]

FOR THE RECORD: Tonight Jokic had a game winning post up play to beat Rick Carlisle's Mavs, who missed several threes. This was a regular season game in January 2020. The world is currently on fire but the weather is not yet catastrophic.

Nothing remains absolute.

[BigShotBob]

FOR THE RECORD: Tonight Jokic had a game winning post up play to beat Rick Carlisle's Mavs, who missed several threes. This was a regular season game in January 2020. The world is currently on fire but the weather is not yet catastrophic.

Nothing remains absolute.

Why wasn't he doubled?

[DoctorP]

Why wasn't he doubled?

that's a good question. I don't know why exactly. seemed by design. Jokic got the spacing.

[tpols]

It's because KP is one of the worst post up players by far.

0.57 PPP
8.9th percentile

People just assume that any tall person should post up. KP is god awful at all and Carlisle is right.

Embiid on the other hand has the opposite problem. He is currently leading the league in post ups per game but he is bad at shooting. He needs to cut it out.


this might be bingo.

poasting isnt about height its about girth and strength.

[DoctorP]

this might be bingo.

poasting isnt about height its about girth and strength.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/DLm2IJPuLnMTS/source.gif