LeBron this year has a chance to be the undisputed GOAT

[AirBonner]

Bucks have clinched playoff birth in February :biggums: the Bucks have a comically insane 11.15 SRS this year. They’re on pace to finish as only one of 11 teams in NBA history to have an SRS in the double digits:

70 Bucks
95 Bulls
71 Lakers
16 GSW
96 Bulls
71 Bucks
15 GSW
91 Bulls
14 GSW

8 of the 10 other teams to post such an astronomical number have gone on to win the title. One of the two didn’t? The 71 Bucks... Who lost to the 71 Lakers, who are also on that list and higher than the Bucks.

So that’s the good news for Milwaukee. The bad news? The other team to not win it all? 16 GSW? Knocked off by Lebron, who’s still lurking. If Lebron knocks off this years Bucks team, then it really should end the Jordan/Lebron debate. Lebron should be the undisputed GOAT at that point.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Nope. You and a few others will say that he is the greatest ever because you are just going to push that agenda no matter what. But for the majority of fans he will be remembered as one of the greatest ever but not the greatest ever.

[bullettooth]

How do you lose so many times in the finals and in such embarrassing fashion too (2 sweeps?!) and still have morons considering you GOAT? Why is the bar set so low for LeBron? Is this a millennial thing?

[scuzzy]

He might beat ANOTHER 70 win team this year:biggums:

[Kingwillball]

A championship this year puts him in the conversation at very least... with that said a lot of people won’t give him that title unless he at least ties MJ with 6...so long way to go. The appearances in finals would get into double digits which alone is an making record but finals losses will be held against him even if he somehow got 2/3 more..

[AirBonner]

A championship this year puts him in the conversation at very least... with that said a lot of people won’t give him that title unless he at least ties MJ with 6...so long way to go. The appearances in finals would get into double digits which alone is an making record but finals losses will be held against him even if he somehow got 2/3 more..
Holding finals losses against him makes no sense.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Lebron has already lost the chance to surpass MJ since 2007 when he got swept by the Spurs in NBA Finals. MJ has a perfect 6/6 record in the NBA finals, this 100% winning percentage in NBA finals is a necessary condition for NBA GOAT. If a player loses once in an NBA Final series, hes automatically disqualified from GOAT conversation. Ever since that day, Lebron's ceiling was 2nd greatest player in NBA, even if he had won all the rest NBA Finals series.

Note: 100% winning percentage in NBA Finals is a necessary condition for GOAT but not sufficient condition. A player with a perfect finals record may not be close to GOAT discussion, ie. Pippen.

[SouBeachTalents]

If he were to win, he'd be projected to go through

2 former MVP's in Houston
Reigning FMVP Kawhi & the stacked Clippers
Reigning b2b MVP Giannis & 70 win Bucks

That would give him 4 MVP's/4 FMVP's, titles with 3 different teams, 2 Finals wins against 70 win teams, in addition to having the all time record for All-NBA selections

How he'd be any less than 2nd or 3rd all time with a title/FMVP this year is beyond me

[Kingwillball]

If he were to win, he'd be projected to go through

2 former MVP's in Houston
Reigning FMVP Kawhi & the stacked Clippers
Reigning b2b MVP Giannis & 70 win Bucks

That would give him 4 MVP's/4 FMVP's, titles with 3 different teams, 2 Finals wins against 70 win teams, in addition to having the all time record for All-NBA selections

How he'd be any less than 2nd or 3rd all time with a title/FMVP this year is beyond me

To me he already is #2 but that would def lock it up for people on fence..

[superduper]

Bran stans been screaming this same line between and to eachother multiple times a day every single day until their faces are blue for YEARS....but still nah :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If he were to win, he'd be projected to go through

2 former MVP's in Houston
Reigning FMVP Kawhi & the stacked Clippers
Reigning b2b MVP Giannis & 70 win Bucks

That would give him 4 MVP's/4 FMVP's, titles with 3 different teams, 2 Finals wins against 70 win teams, in addition to having the all time record for All-NBA selections

How he'd be any less than 2nd or 3rd all time with a title/FMVP this year is beyond me

He goes thru that gauntlet AND plays elite? GOAT talks are coming. Big if though.

[Celtics 1825]

He's already consensus top 5 without a doubt, another ring with him getting FMVP would lock him in at #2 for me.

[72-10]

He's already consensus top 5 without a doubt, another ring with him getting FMVP would lock him in at #2 for me.

What type of lock would it be?

[72-10]

OP is retarded.

[RRR3]

If he were to win, he'd be projected to go through

2 former MVP's in Houston
Reigning FMVP Kawhi & the stacked Clippers
Reigning b2b MVP Giannis & 70 win Bucks

That would give him 4 MVP's/4 FMVP's, titles with 3 different teams, 2 Finals wins against 70 win teams, in addition to having the all time record for All-NBA selections

How he'd be any less than 2nd or 3rd all time with a title/FMVP this year is beyond me
https://i.redd.it/u29gp1tyknl11.jpg

[red1]

he's not a good enough shooter to knock MJ off. if you want to be GOAT you have to be able to hit a freethrow.


he will be 2nd though.

[72-10]

If he played in a previous era he wouldn't be able to do his gather step bullsh*t so he wouldn't be able to drive and he has no jump shot plus fouls were not spoonfed so he'd have trouble getting 15 or 20 in a game.

[FireDavidKahn]

How can he have a chance when he already is?

[ronniec]

Everyday we see this kind of posting... Lebron this and Lebron that.

Yeah, he has a chance... win it first

[RRR3]

If he played in a previous era he wouldn't be able to do his gather step bullsh*t so he wouldn't be able to drive and he has no jump shot plus fouls were not spoonfed so he'd have trouble getting 15 or 20 in a game.

Permaban time.

[72-10]

Permaban time.

You don't even know how to play basketball.

[KD7]

I'd have him as the GOAT if he wins this year whilst outplaying both Giannis and Kawhi.

But I don't think that will happen because he's old and past his prime

[insidehoops]

What's interesting is, this topic actually is worth discussing. How great the Bucks are AND how wild it would be if LeBron and the Lakers can beat them in the Finals, and how legendary it would be if that happened.

BUT, this topic also could just be a Bucks topic. Could recreate most of the OP and just leave LeBron/Lakers stuff out, and discuss what's special about the Bucks.

Both are actually legit points.

[Bankaii]

he's not a good enough shooter to knock MJ off. if you want to be GOAT you have to be able to hit a freethrow.


he will be 2nd though.
You're my homie but nah that's dumb.
Shaq could've easily been GOAT if he had the work ethic.
His career is probably the most underrated of all.

[Phoenix]

What's interesting is, this topic actually is worth discussing. How great the Bucks are AND how wild it would be if LeBron and the Lakers can beat them in the Finals, and how legendary it would be if that happened.

BUT, this topic also could just be a Bucks topic. Could recreate most of the OP and just leave LeBron/Lakers stuff out, and discuss what's special about the Bucks.

Both are actually legit points.

Not really, especially when people throw around words like 'undisputed', when ranking players has and always will be incredibly subjective. I think the best system is tiered. Players 30 years apart can really only be objectively ranked in terms of dominance against their own peers. Modern rules have favored the perimeter player to such a degree that guys like Luka and Trey are putting up better numbers in their 2nd year than historically great HOF legends. Where do you draw the line?

[Cyrus334]

There's no such thing as undisputed GOAT. Every candidate can be disputed and of all the candidates for GOAT, Lebron has by far the most black marks on his record. One title with the Lakers where he's playing with AD won't suddenly make them go away.

[coin24]

Will one more win on a stacked roster jump him 10 places? Really? I don't think so..

[SouBeachTalents]

There's no such thing as undisputed GOAT. Every candidate can be disputed and of all the candidates for GOAT, Lebron has by far the most black marks on his record. One title with the Lakers where he's playing with AD won't suddenly make them go away.
I'd definitely agree Jordan has by far the least, but does LeBron really have more black marks on his record than Wilt, Kareem, and Russell? And even if you think he does, "by far" more than them? That seems like an pretty big exaggeration. Theirs definitely don't get much mention because they occurred 40-50 years ago, while LeBron's live on forever in the internet/social media age, but they have some marks on their resume that LeBron would get absolutely clowned for

[TheImmortal]

Gigi had a better fadeaway.. that tells you something.


Definitely not the goat.. absurd. Needs a stacked roster + refs to win 3. pathetic.

[MrFonzworth]

I'd definitely agree Jordan has by far the least, but does LeBron really have more black marks on his record than Wilt, Kareem, and Russell? And even if you think he does, "by far" more than them? That seems like an pretty big exaggeration. Theirs definitely don't get much mention because they occurred 40-50 years ago, while LeBron's live on forever in the internet/social media age, but they have some marks on their resume that LeBron would get absolutely clowned for

This. Imagine if Giannis makes the finals this year and dribbles out the game clock like Magic did. We would NEVER hear the end of it anytime his name would be brought up in a discussion. 5 years from now even.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Odd that no LeBron led teams, even playing along side two all stars could get on that list.

[DoctorP]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1229775891699396609/55B3XuGG_400x400.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4AltA-slcng/maxresdefault.jpg

[superduper]

Odd that no LeBron led teams, even playing along side two all stars could get on that list.

It's almost like his self-absorbed brand of basketball has proven suboptimal year and year and year again.

[MrFonzworth]

Odd that no LeBron led teams, even playing along side two all stars could get on that list.

Coasting and injuries

[eliteballer]

A juicer can't be the GOAT.

[Manny98]

Odd that no LeBron led teams, even playing along side two all stars could get on that list.
Because his ball dominant brand of basketball cannot produce GOAT level team dominance like Curry & MJ

[AussieSteve]

Lebron has already lost the chance to surpass MJ since 2007 when he got swept by the Spurs in NBA Finals. MJ has a perfect 6/6 record in the NBA finals, this 100% winning percentage in NBA finals is a necessary condition for NBA GOAT. If a player loses once in an NBA Final series, hes automatically disqualified from GOAT conversation. Ever since that day, Lebron's ceiling was 2nd greatest player in NBA, even if he had won all the rest NBA Finals series.

Note: 100% winning percentage in NBA Finals is a necessary condition for GOAT but not sufficient condition. A player with a perfect finals record may not be close to GOAT discussion, ie. Pippen.

So when LeBron was the same age as Jordan was at the end of his rookie season, he'd already lost his shot at being GOAT. Right.

There's not a lot of objectivity going on here.

[SouBeachTalents]

So when LeBron was the same age as Jordan was at the end of his rookie season, he'd already lost his shot at being GOAT. Right.

There's not a lot of objectivity going on here.
According to that retards logic, looking at the '07 season, out of Dirk, Kobe, Wade, & KG , he'd argue LeBron did the most to damage to his legacy by leading his team to the Finals than all those guys did either missing the playoffs or losing in the first round.

He'd legitimately argue Dirk losing to the 8th seeded Warriors was better than LeBron making the Finals :lol

[RRR3]

According to that retards logic, looking at the '07 season, out of Dirk, Kobe, Wade, & KG , he'd argue LeBron did the most to damage to his legacy by leading his team to the Finals than all those guys did either missing the playoffs or losing in the first round.

He'd legitimately argue Dirk losing to the 8th seeded Warriors was better than LeBron making the Finals :lol
Kiddlovesnets is easily one of the dumbest non trolls around. Or maybe he’s trolling. I hope so.

[SpaceJam2]

Will the Bucks #2 option score more than 10 ppg?

[bullettooth]

Lebron has already lost the chance to surpass MJ since 2007 when he got swept by the Spurs in NBA Finals. MJ has a perfect 6/6 record in the NBA finals, this 100% winning percentage in NBA finals is a necessary condition for NBA GOAT. If a player loses once in an NBA Final series, hes automatically disqualified from GOAT conversation. Ever since that day, Lebron's ceiling was 2nd greatest player in NBA, even if he had won all the rest NBA Finals series.

Note: 100% winning percentage in NBA Finals is a necessary condition for GOAT but not sufficient condition. A player with a perfect finals record may not be close to GOAT discussion, ie. Pippen.

Quoted for truth.

[SpaceJam2]

6911

GOAT locked up

[3ball]

According to that retards logic, looking at the '07 season, out of Dirk, Kobe, Wade, & KG , he'd argue LeBron did the most to damage to his legacy by leading his team to the Finals than all those guys did either missing the playoffs or losing in the first round.

He'd legitimately argue Dirk losing to the 8th seeded Warriors was better than LeBron making the Finals :lol
He got locked up in those Finals - 22 on 36%

it's a knock on legacy anytime a player gets completely shut down - Lebron was completely shut down in 2007 Finals.. So that's a knock on his career.

Otoh, guys like Wade losing in the first round as an underdog isn't a knock at all..

yes, making the Finals > losing in 1st round, but player comparisons don't compare just 1 year to 1 year - it's a comparison of their entire careers - and Lebron has instances where he was completely shut down, so that's a knock on his CAREER compared to others

[SpaceJam2]

He got locked up in those Finals - 22 on 36%

it's a knock on legacy anytime a player gets completely shut down - Lebron was completely shut down in 2007 Finals.. So that's a knock on his career.

Otoh, guys like Wade losing in the first round as an underdog isn't a knock at all..

yes, making the Finals > losing in 1st round, but player comparisons don't compare just 1 year to 1 year - it's a comparison of their entire careers - and Lebron has instances where he was completely shut down, so that's a knock on his CAREER compared to others


6911

[3ball]

6911
kudos longevity and being sturdy

but degree of domination is what determines who is better at basketball, and the rate of production stats determine that - ppg, efficiency rating, ws/48 and obpm

[Spurs m8]

OP got ethered like he deserved.

No one outside of ISH believes this hahahaha

[SouBeachTalents]

He got locked up in those Finals - 22 on 36%

it's a knock on legacy anytime a player gets completely shut down - Lebron was completely shut down in 2007 Finals.. So that's a knock on his career.

Otoh, guys like Wade losing in the first round as an underdog isn't a knock at all..

yes, making the Finals > losing in 1st round, but player comparisons don't compare just 1 year to 1 year - it's a comparison of their entire careers - and Lebron has instances where he was completely shut down, so that's a knock on his CAREER compared to others
See, now THAT is a legitimate criticism. But that dude droning on about one Finals loss ending someones chance at being GOAT and using zero context? Retarded

[3ball]

See, now THAT is a legitimate criticism. But that dude droning on about one Finals loss ending someones chance at being GOAT and using zero context? Retarded
agreed.

1 Finals loss isn't a knock

however, a lot of Finals losses (more than the wins) indicates a team ceiling issue.. LeBrandOfBall…

his skillset doesn't yield or allow the best brand or the best teams. so that's another legit knock and that's a skill-based knock (the only real knock I have on him aside from his non-elite jumpshooting ability and possibly a suboptimal mentality compared to other greats)

[sportjames23]

How do you lose so many times in the finals and in such embarrassing fashion too (2 sweeps?!) and still have morons considering you GOAT? Why is the bar set so low for LeBron? Is this a millennial thing?


Yes.

[PWB15]

Bucks have clinched playoff birth in February :biggums: the Bucks have a comically insane 11.15 SRS this year. They’re on pace to finish as only one of 11 teams in NBA history to have an SRS in the double digits:

70 Bucks
95 Bulls
71 Lakers
16 GSW
96 Bulls
71 Bucks
15 GSW
91 Bulls
14 GSW

8 of the 10 other teams to post such an astronomical number have gone on to win the title. One of the two didn’t? The 71 Bucks... Who lost to the 71 Lakers, who are also on that list and higher than the Bucks.

So that’s the good news for Milwaukee. The bad news? The other team to not win it all? 16 GSW? Knocked off by Lebron, who’s still lurking. If Lebron knocks off this years Bucks team, then it really should end the Jordan/Lebron debate. Lebron should be the undisputed GOAT at that point.

you are reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-tarded. Didnt he leave teams after failure?

[AirBonner]

agreed.

1 Finals loss isn't a knock

however, a lot of Finals losses (more than the wins) indicates a team ceiling issue.. LeBrandOfBall…

his skillset doesn't yield or allow the best brand or the best teams. so that's another legit knock and that's a skill-based knock (the only real knock I have on him aside from his non-elite jumpshooting ability and possibly a suboptimal mentality compared to other greats)
What other greats? I’m curious because you have had Wilt at the #2 spot for a while

[superduper]

Yes.

Millenials are in their late 30s on the high end of the range.

[Kiddlovesnets]

On a side note, Lebron is still a poor man's Magic, and another ring would only make him on par with his role model. Cant surpass MJ when Magic is still ahead of him.

[Kiddlovesnets]

What's interesting is, this topic actually is worth discussing. How great the Bucks are AND how wild it would be if LeBron and the Lakers can beat them in the Finals, and how legendary it would be if that happened.

BUT, this topic also could just be a Bucks topic. Could recreate most of the OP and just leave LeBron/Lakers stuff out, and discuss what's special about the Bucks.

Both are actually legit points.

Its not worth discussing really, see my earlier post for explanation. TLDR = A 100% finals record is a necessary condition for GOAT consideration. Anyone who loses in NBA finals series once, will be automatically disqualified from GOAT conversation.

[AirBonner]

Its not worth discussing really, see my earlier post for explanation. TLDR = A 100% finals record is a necessary condition for GOAT consideration. Anyone who loses in NBA finals series once, will be automatically disqualified from GOAT conversation.

You actually didn’t have a solid reason besides a biased opinion. I presented actual facts

[Kiddlovesnets]

You actually didn’t have a solid reason besides a biased opinion. I presented actual facts

The fact is that MJ is 6/6, 100% record in the NBA Finals. In order to surpass MJ, a player has to achieve what MJ had achieved, as well as what MJ failed to achieve. MJ set the bar high, before him the 100% finals record was not a requirement, now it is.

[AirBonner]

The fact is that MJ is 6/6, 100% record in the NBA Finals. In order to surpass MJ, a player has to achieve what MJ had achieved, as well as what MJ failed to achieve. MJ set the bar high, before him the 100% finals record was not a requirement, now it is.

He’s 6/15
Meanwhile Russell is 11/12

[Kiddlovesnets]

He’s 6/15
Meanwhile Russell is 11/12

Nah he is 6/6, we talking about NBA finals, where it matters the most.

[AirBonner]

Nah he is 6/6, we talking about NBA finals, where it matters the most.

So missing the finals is better than losing in it? Trying to understand retard logic

[Kiddlovesnets]

So missing the finals is better than losing in it? Trying to understand retard logic

MJ did not lose a single playoffs series in his prime. Once he rose to dominance, he could not be defeated. Such is the definition of GOAT, no one could challenge him in his reign.

[AirBonner]

MJ did not lose a single playoffs series in his prime. Once he rose to dominance, he could not be defeated. Such is the definition of GOAT, no one could challenge him in his reign.

1995 loss to the Magic. Next.

[Kiddlovesnets]

1995 loss to the Magic. Next.

It aint a complete season for him, and he was clearly not at his best, so it aint considered his prime. His prime was 1991-1993 and 1996-1998.

[AirBonner]

It aint a complete season for him, and he was clearly not at his best, so it aint considered his prime. His prime was 1991-1993 and 1996-1998.

He had 2 years off. Must have needed more load management? Lmao yeah his prime conveniently excludes his loss to the magic

[3ball]

He had 2 years off. Must have needed more load management? Lmao yeah his prime conveniently excludes his loss to the magic
Imagine how slow, rusty and bricklayer lebron would be if he took 2 years off to play baseball lol

[SouBeachTalents]

He had 2 years off. Must have needed more load management? Lmao yeah his prime conveniently excludes his loss to the magic
And his losses to the Pistons :oldlol: Like ANYBODY would dispute 1990 wasn't part of Jordan's prime

[3ball]

And his losses to the Pistons :oldlol: Like ANYBODY would dispute 1990 wasn't part of Jordan's prime
Those are pippen's losses not MJ

Bulls were underdogs, not massive favorites like 09-11' lebron

[AirBonner]

And his losses to the Pistons :oldlol: Like ANYBODY would dispute 1990 wasn't part of Jordan's prime

Bingo haha

[Phoenix]

Remember 3 weeks ago when the board was cleansed and everyone ( who wasnt banned) was making an effort to talk about anything but Lebron/MJ bullshit? What a time.

[3ball]

And his losses to the Pistons :oldlol: Like ANYBODY would dispute 1990 wasn't part of Jordan's prime
He had no cast

And at least he went 7 games with good stats, while 08' Lebron took that champs 7 with horrific stats (Cavs would've won if lebron wasn't so bad)