T-mac was what y'all call today "regular season giant but a playoff midget" right?

[k0kakw0rld]

Never made it out of the first round as the lead man.
His team won a playoff series with him on the bench :lol

Hall of Famer. :applause:

[SouBeachTalents]

How McGrady managed to lose with these rosters I'll never know

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2002260418450099.jpg

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2002260447270092.png

[Phoenix]

Those Magic squads might have been some of the shittiest rosters I've ever seen. No rhyme or reason to any of it.

Tmac in 03 put it all together and with better talent, would have done better things in the playoffs. I don't think he was much of a galvanizer though. More of a 'I'm gonna drop my 32/6/6, you coming or what ?' type. He was never that good again due to his back. None of his teams in his prime were really good enough to do anything. Maybe that mid 2000s Rockets squad but Yao had his own injury problems. Just one of those guys who couldn't get over the hump. Talent and skill wise, easily up there with greatest perimeter players ever. Was just missing that extra gear, good health and circumstances to have a better career. But , you look at his early 2000s highlights and he's doing serious damage in any era

[Celtics 1825]

How McGrady managed to lose with these rosters I'll never know

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2002260418450099.jpg

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2002260447270092.png
The other players on that team went for a combined 11-42 holy shit :roll:

[LAL]

The other players on that team went for a combined 11-42 holy shit :roll:
What's funnier is the "plus minus" stat for Tmac and Darrel armstrong

[tpols]

How McGrady managed to lose with these rosters I'll never know

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2002260418450099.jpg

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2002260447270092.png


Honestly bro... the roster is bad but not bad enough to where you could never win a single playoff series in a weak east. Every star was playing with garbage casts in the early 2000s east.

The magic were UP 3-1 in that first round series so lets not act like they had no chance... they choked. Go look up what tmac shot to finish that series.

8-20
11-28
7-24

:biggums:

That same young piston team they choked against... the Nets swept in the next round. 4-0 KO.

Jason Kidd came to a 26 win team and turned them into contenders. The dynasty pistons "over the hump" bully was the NJ Nets who were totally lackluster outside of one man.

What it comes down to is tmac did not make teams better and was a volume chucker. He got his. at an extreme rate. Guys like Kidd did far more on the court.

Even Paul Pierce was winning playoff series with shit teams. Allen Iverson as well.

i watched that era extensively... that was probably my peak time as a fan when i actually went to quite a few games with my pops and watched Nets on YES network every night they played.

[Kblaze8855]

Kerry Kittles, Kenyon Martin, and Keith VanHorn were all individually better than anyone Tmac had vs those pistons and you know it. Hell Richard Jefferson was too by his second season. You start looking for worse groups of 11 in a supporting cast and you realize soon he was working with arguably the worst lineup....not to make the playoffs...to exist.

Go look into it. Go look at expansion team rosters. The expansion bobcats were more talented. The 7 win Hornets too. The expansion Hornets first roster....I wouldn’t trade Dell Curry for any of those bums. Muggsy ended up better than anyone on that roster but Tmac.

There was no Mutombo, Antione Walker, Ricky Davis, Wally, or Lamar Odom. If you had to pick between Mo Pete and Antonio Davis and Giricek and Drew Gooden there isn’t even a question.

Jerry Srackhouse had more talent on the Pistons.

Id take Walt Williams and olden polynice on the Kings before Tmacs team.

He had as bad a collection of talent as has ever been. Just how it is.


Go look at the 11 win 93 mavs. That’s a similar group of talent.

[SouBeachTalents]

Honestly bro... the roster is bad but not bad enough to where you could never win a single playoff series in a weak east. Every star was playing with garbage casts in the early 2000s east.

The magic were UP 3-1 in that first round series so lets not act like they had no chance... they choked. Go look up what tmac shot to finish that series.

8-20
11-28
7-24

:biggums:

That same young piston team they choked against... the Nets swept in the next round. 4-0 KO.

Jason Kidd came to a 26 win team and turned them into contenders. The dynasty pistons "over the hump" bully was the NJ Nets who were totally lackluster outside of one man.

What it comes down to is tmac did not make teams better and was a volume chucker. He got his. at an extreme rate. Guys like Kidd did far more on the court.

Even Paul Pierce was winning playoff series with shit teams. Allen Iverson as well.

i watched that era extensively... that was probably my peak time as a fan when i actually went to quite a few games with my pops and watched Nets on YES network every night they played.
You make a lot of good points. And you're absolutely right, players with really bad rosters were managing to win playoff series in the East during that time.

I will say this about McGrady, he did undoubtedly go up against superior teams in '01 & '03. Even though they didn't make the Finals, the '01 Bucks just might've been the most talented team, at least on paper, to come out of the East in the early 2000's. And while the Pistons obviously weren't "the Pistons" yet, Ben/Billups/Rip is still significantly better than what McGrady had to go against them. The series you could look back on and say he should've won was against a Hornets team in '02 that was missing Mashburn. But even then, after splitting the first two games, McGrady goes for 37/7/3 & 35/4/6 the final two games and loses both by double digits. So it's not as if he wasn't carrying his weight that series

My last point, I don't know if you see a similarity, but the '03 loss to me is a near mirror image of the '06 Lakers loss to the Suns. Kobe dropped the 50 piece in Game 6, but McGrady had nearly 40 in his close out attempt in Game 6, and as shown above, dropped 46 earlier in the series and still lost. Losing a 3-1 lead is a bad look, but I don't even blame the two of them that much considering they were both carrying garbage teams AND they only had 1 attempt to close things out at home

[tpols]

yea and imagine if kobe never won a single playoff series, and the closest he ever came was that suns series... instead the man won 5 championships.

Kobe wouldve won rings on those rocket teams that took his own championship laker squads to 7 games & were honestly some of his toughest tests.

Tmac a great player but people tend to overrate him like he was a god in just unfortunate circumstances.

Kobe was absolutely a better passer, defender, and galvanizer / motivator for his teammates. And that went a loooong way.

Tmac was a godmode scorer but so was Kobe.

[BigShotBob]

He lost a playoff series to Baron Davis when Baron Davis had nobody.

[ImKobe]

Honestly bro... the roster is bad but not bad enough to where you could never win a single playoff series in a weak east. Every star was playing with garbage casts in the early 2000s east.

The magic were UP 3-1 in that first round series so lets not act like they had no chance... they choked. Go look up what tmac shot to finish that series.

8-20
11-28
7-24

:biggums:

That same young piston team they choked against... the Nets swept in the next round. 4-0 KO.

Jason Kidd came to a 26 win team and turned them into contenders. The dynasty pistons "over the hump" bully was the NJ Nets who were totally lackluster outside of one man.

What it comes down to is tmac did not make teams better and was a volume chucker. He got his. at an extreme rate. Guys like Kidd did far more on the court.

Even Paul Pierce was winning playoff series with shit teams. Allen Iverson as well.

i watched that era extensively... that was probably my peak time as a fan when i actually went to quite a few games with my pops and watched Nets on YES network every night they played.

"Tmac did not make teams better", leads a pile of garbage to 42 wins. It's disgusting that they could get blown out in a game where he has 46 points on ~75%TS. He was the only player out of their 8-man rotation to have a positive net-rating in that series. It's not like he was Melo, Tmac is one of the most gifted passers at his position.

[Phoenix]

That Magic squads Achilles heel( other than talent) was defense. 20th in 03, 29th in 04. They couldn't guard a lamp post. If you're going to do the 'singular high scoring superstar' thing at least surround the guy with some gritty players who can hold serve on defense, then hope your superstar can carry you home. Worked for Philly in 01 right until they ran into peak Shaq/Kobe. They were like a top 5 defense with Iverson free to ISO at will supported by guys who weren't good enough to cry about not getting offensive touches.

Iverson and Paul Pierce aren't doing much on those Magic teams either. That's not to say that Tmac was much of a leader; I don't think he was. But other than maybe the Hornets, he didnt lose to anyone he had no business losing to. The Bucks got to the ECFs and Detroit won the title the following year. He wasnt losing to scrubs.

[ShawkFactory]

yea and imagine if kobe never won a single playoff series, and the closest he ever came was that suns series... instead the man won 5 championships.

Kobe wouldve won rings on those rocket teams that took his own championship laker squads to 7 games & were honestly some of his toughest tests.

Tmac a great player but people tend to overrate him like he was a god in just unfortunate circumstances.

Kobe was absolutely a better passer, defender, and galvanizer / motivator for his teammates. And that went a loooong way.

Tmac was a godmode scorer but so was Kobe.
We can tell that was your peak era of watching. You were a Kobe guy and Tmac was his closest comp.

And you still find ways to downplay him.

Kobe had greater intensity as a defender. That’s it.

At the time he was playing with Shaq. You put 24 year old Kobe on an absolutely garbage roster (hell...27 year old Kobe) and you’d find out about his “motivating” skills.

Tmac was as skilled of a passer as SGs come. Up there with the Wades and MJs in that front.

[Loco 50]

We can tell that was your peak era of watching. You were a Kobe guy and Tmac was his closest comp.

And you still find ways to downplay him.

Kobe had greater intensity as a defender. That’s it.

At the time he was playing with Shaq. You put 24 year old Kobe on an absolutely garbage roster (hell...27 year old Kobe) and you’d find out about his “motivating” skills.

Tmac was as skilled of a passer as SGs come. Up there with the Wades and MJs in that front.
:applause:Had the exact same thoughts about Tpols opinion and your Tmac/Kobe comparison.

As for the topic, the way Tmac, and to a lesser extent KG and Robinson until they finally got decent teams surrounding them, were criticized by fans and the media is why Durant and Lebron jumped ship the way they did. It's made the league pretty garbage for small market teams. A man can only be expected to carry so much and succeed before expectations just become ridiculous. Lotta the young guys don't want to take on those impossible expectations anymore. Probably rightfully so, but the game suffers for it.

Tmac had health problems to hinder his career too, but I'd argue that's because he was asked to do way too much.

[Pointguard]

Honestly bro... the roster is bad but not bad enough to where you could never win a single playoff series in a weak east. Every star was playing with garbage casts in the early 2000s east.

The magic were UP 3-1 in that first round series so lets not act like they had no chance... they choked. Go look up what tmac shot to finish that series.

8-20
11-28
7-24

:biggums:

That same young piston team they choked against... the Nets swept in the next round. 4-0 KO.

Jason Kidd came to a 26 win team and turned them into contenders. The dynasty pistons "over the hump" bully was the NJ Nets who were totally lackluster outside of one man.

What it comes down to is tmac did not make teams better and was a volume chucker. He got his. at an extreme rate. Guys like Kidd did far more on the court.

Even Paul Pierce was winning playoff series with shit teams. Allen Iverson as well.

i watched that era extensively... that was probably my peak time as a fan when i actually went to quite a few games with my pops and watched Nets on YES network every night they played.
As a team they had to trade down to have that group of bad players. I've talked about Kidd being one of the most remarkable players to do anything with that Nets squad because he couldn't count on anybody to get 15 points or 9 rebounds or 5 assist on that team, outside of himself, when they went from last place to first. Sobeit, that Nets team played great defense, smart ball and could run. Kittles and Van Horn were very good shooters. Kmart was one of the best defenders in the league. But this Orlando team, above, didn't have any players that you could count on to get 10 points or 5 assist, or shooters or athletes, and had no intangibles without TMac. MJ isn't going to win a series with that team. Jordan had like 4 years when he couldn't get out of the first round.

[SpaceJam2]

As a team they had to trade down to have that group of bad players. I've talked about Kidd being one of the most remarkable players to do anything with that Nets squad because he couldn't count on anybody to get 15 points or 9 rebounds or 5 assist on that team, outside of himself, when they went from last place to first. Sobeit, that Nets team played great defense, smart ball and could run. Kittles and Van Horn were very good shooters. Kmart was one of the best defenders in the league. But this Orlando team, above, didn't have any players that you could count on to get 10 points or 5 assist, or shooters or athletes, and had no intangibles without TMac. MJ isn't going to win a series with that team. Jordan had like 4 years when he couldn't get out of the first round.

3 years in a row actually

Then 3 more losses in a row to the Pistons

[BigShotBob]

As a team they had to trade down to have that group of bad players. I've talked about Kidd being one of the most remarkable players to do anything with that Nets squad because he couldn't count on anybody to get 15 points or 9 rebounds or 5 assist on that team, outside of himself, when they went from last place to first. Sobeit, that Nets team played great defense, smart ball and could run. Kittles and Van Horn were very good shooters. Kmart was one of the best defenders in the league. But this Orlando team, above, didn't have any players that you could count on to get 10 points or 5 assist, or shooters or athletes, and had no intangibles without TMac. MJ isn't going to win a series with that team. Jordan had like 4 years when he couldn't get out of the first round.

MJ would have definitely lead his team past Baron Davis

[Andrei89]

:applause:Had the exact same thoughts about Tpols opinion and your Tmac/Kobe comparison.

As for the topic, the way Tmac, and to a lesser extent KG and Robinson until they finally got decent teams surrounding them, were criticized by fans and the media is why Durant and Lebron jumped ship the way they did. It's made the league pretty garbage for small market teams. A man can only be expected to carry so much and succeed before expectations just become ridiculous. Lotta the young guys don't want to take on those impossible expectations anymore. Probably rightfully so, but the game suffers for it.

Tmac had health problems to hinder his career too, but I'd argue that's because he was asked to do way too much.

“League garbage for small market teams” is just bullshite that is getting out of hand and thrown around these days.

I mean look just in the past 10 years at Milwuakee,OKC,Memphis, San Antonio. They are all strong as ****. What about Cleveland? Also considered a small market team and look how much success they have had since 2003.

Yet you have a big market giant like the NYK that have not achieved shit.

I even consider GSW a team that nobody really cared about until the Splash Bro’a emerged. I mean, who gave 0 ****s about GSW prior to this? They were up there on par with Horners as teams that nobody cares about.

Free agents go to the strong team, not the big market team. Let Charlotte draft the next Curry and the next Klay and free agents will line up to play with them.

Lastly, Durant did not jump ship because OKC is small market but because he is a sniveling coward who joined the greatest regular season team of all time and won 2 rings that nobody cares about.

[imdaman99]

Blame brittle Grant Hill

[houston]

tmac was overrated and choke artist

[Loco 50]

“League garbage for small market teams” is just bullshite that is getting out of hand and thrown around these days.

I mean look just in the past 10 years at Milwuakee,OKC,Memphis, San Antonio. They are all strong as ****. What about Cleveland? Also considered a small market team and look how much success they have had since 2003.

Yet you have a big market giant like the NYK that have not achieved shit.

I even consider GSW a team that nobody really cared about until the Splash Bro’a emerged. I mean, who gave 0 ****s about GSW prior to this? They were up there on par with Horners as teams that nobody cares about.

Free agents go to the strong team, not the big market team. Let Charlotte draft the next Curry and the next Klay and free agents will line up to play with them.

Lastly, Durant did not jump ship because OKC is small market but because he is a sniveling coward who joined the greatest regular season team of all time and won 2 rings that nobody cares about.
Cleveland poached twice by a larger market. San Antonio destroyed by L.A.'s meddling. OKC almost destroyed. Milwaukee under threat by L.A. OKC losing Durant.

You're a Lebron fan so you'll justify his move, but denigrate Durant's. It's all the same to me.

Memphis and OKC survive, but guarantee if and when a star breaks out a big market threat will emerge to attempt another super team formation. It is the way of the league now and it's trash. If New York weren't so ineptly run they'd be the obvious target.

And:oldlol:at people going to Charlotte. Not happening. If they draft a superstar they'll get poached. Small markets are little more than farm teams right now. I'm rooting for Milwaukee, but if they don't get it done this year, the team will fall apart.

PS: Golden State is the 6th largest NBA market.........

[Horatio33]

yea and imagine if kobe never won a single playoff series, and the closest he ever came was that suns series... instead the man won 5 championships.

Kobe wouldve won rings on those rocket teams that took his own championship laker squads to 7 games & were honestly some of his toughest tests.

Tmac a great player but people tend to overrate him like he was a god in just unfortunate circumstances.

Kobe was absolutely a better passer, defender, and galvanizer / motivator for his teammates. And that went a loooong way.

Tmac was a godmode scorer but so was Kobe.

Kobe was drafted onto a team that had just acquired prime Shaquille O'Neal.

[ralph_i_el]

Kerry Kittles, Kenyon Martin, and Keith VanHorn were all individually better than anyone Tmac had vs those pistons and you know it.

Op doesn't know shit.

Getting hurt is not a knock on your game. T-Mac is one of the best to ever lace them up, regular season and playoffs.

[tanibanana]

With todays fans... TMac definitely deserve to be called that way. Although I hate it.

[tpols]

Kobe was drafted onto a team that had just acquired prime Shaquille O'Neal.

and he won many playoff series and multiple championships without shaquille oneal.

whats your point?

tmac went to a very good rocket team that had a winning record every year and was perenially in the playoffs.

never won nothing. not even a single series.

[SamuraiSWISH]

As a team they had to trade down to have that group of bad players. I've talked about Kidd being one of the most remarkable players to do anything with that Nets squad because he couldn't count on anybody to get 15 points or 9 rebounds or 5 assist on that team, outside of himself, when they went from last place to first. Sobeit, that Nets team played great defense, smart ball and could run. Kittles and Van Horn were very good shooters. Kmart was one of the best defenders in the league. But this Orlando team, above, didn't have any players that you could count on to get 10 points or 5 assist, or shooters or athletes, and had no intangibles without TMac. MJ isn't going to win a series with that team. Jordan had like 4 years when he couldn't get out of the first round.
3 years. And it was against like All Time great Bird Celtics teams. And a loaded Bucks team at the time.

:facepalm:oldlol:

[Indian guy]

T-Mac's talent and ability is undeniable, but to me he was highly lacking in the non-boxscore essentials. Stuff you need from your top player to win. Mainly leadership and toughness. T-Mac was not someone who responded well to adversity.

[Kblaze8855]

Tmac played 2 even somewhat healthy seasons on the rockets and that’s after everyone noticed he lost a step in that last year in Orlando.....

He was washed up by 27 and Yao only played in the playoffs with even declined Tmac 2 times. I swear half the shit you say about basketball reads like you don’t even watch the people in question.

The real Tracy Mcgrady never even played in Houston. He was morphing into a slowed down point forward. Like Penny in that last ok year in Orlando or the one good year with Jason Kidd. He showed signs of being the real penny and he did decent numbers but anyone around for 94 penny knows 2000 penny wasn’t the same guy even if it’s the same 17/6/6.

[tpols]

the "real mcgrady" .... ok

he went to the rockets at 25 years old.

You're just full of excuses.

[tpols]

T-Mac's talent and ability is undeniable, but to me he was highly lacking in the non-boxscore essentials. Stuff you need from your top player to win. Mainly leadership and toughness. T-Mac was not someone who responded well to adversity.

Bingo.

[Kblaze8855]

The idea of a player declining young due to nagging injury is foreign to you? And you watch sports?

[Replay32]

tmac was overrated and choke artist

This is basically what it boils down to. T-mac is definitely not a first ballot HOFer. He shrunk in big moments quite a bit no matter what his roster looked like. He never once took advantage of the moment to propel his team. Never made it out of the 1st round excluding that one year with the Spurs where he didn't play. The title of the OP is spot on. I still don't get why all the excuses is made for T-mac and what why so many praise him or give him a pass.

[warriorfan]

This is basically what it boils down to. T-mac is definitely not a first ballot HOFer. He shrunk in big moments quite a bit no matter what his roster looked like. He never once took advantage of the moment to propel his team. Never made it out of the 1st round excluding that one year with the Spurs where he didn't play. The title of the OP is spot on. I still don't get why all the excuses is made for T-mac and what why so many praise him or give him a pass.

Because at his peak he was amazing.

[Replay32]

Because at his peak he was amazing.

Explain.

[Kblaze8855]

This is basically what it boils down to. T-mac is definitely not a first ballot HOFer. He shrunk in big moments quite a bit no matter what his roster looked like. He never once took advantage of the moment to propel his team. Never made it out of the 1st round excluding that one year with the Spurs where he didn't play. The title of the OP is spot on. I still don't get why all the excuses is made for T-mac and what why so many praise him or give him a pass.


Because not everyone evaluates basketball like a first take segment designed to keep it short and sweet so know nothing general sports fans can follow the points. The shit used against Tmac is absolute kids table sports talk without a speck of basketball information required. The kinda takes it doesn’t even matter what sport it is. You could use it word for word for Tmac or whatever young quarterback you feel like hating on. Just cookie cutter surface level shit talk.

[MrFonzworth]

This is basically what it boils down to. T-mac is definitely not a first ballot HOFer. He shrunk in big moments quite a bit no matter what his roster looked like. He never once took advantage of the moment to propel his team. Never made it out of the 1st round excluding that one year with the Spurs where he didn't play. The title of the OP is spot on. I still don't get why all the excuses is made for T-mac and what why so many praise him or give him a pass.

I don't agree with any of this.

[90sgoat]

McGrady played too early.

He was the OG extreme ball dominance and usage rate.

He'd flourish today, but back then he simply didn't play on the team, he just chucked. Played a lot like Luka as well.

[Whoah10115]

Difficult player to rate, but I do think he played below his talent, except when he was going in for himself. His teams never got better and were pretty much the same before he started playing there.

He played his best in Houston. He played 5v5. He didn't have as much of the same jaw-dropping stuff, but he played harder. And his back affected him more over the course of the year, rather than in general.

I don't doubt he had absolutely awful rosters, but I don't see how the Celtics would have improved with him over Pierce, and I don't see how the Magic don't improve with Pierce over him. Paul Pierce had Antoine Walker -who was an all-star any day he wanted to be, but preferred to shoot 8 3s and play truly soft and didn't really do much in big situations- and Pierce's teams weren't worse than McGrady's.

I say that to boost Paul Pierce, but also to bring McGrady down to earth..he was a superior talent who genuinely did not play hard.

[ralph_i_el]

Difficult player to rate, but I do think he played below his talent, except when he was going in for himself. His teams never got better and were pretty much the same before he started playing there.

He played his best in Houston. He played 5v5. He didn't have as much of the same jaw-dropping stuff, but he played harder. And his back affected him more over the course of the year, rather than in general.

I don't doubt he had absolutely awful rosters, but I don't see how the Celtics would have improved with him over Pierce, and I don't see how the Magic don't improve with Pierce over him. Paul Pierce had Antoine Walker -who was an all-star any day he wanted to be, but preferred to shoot 8 3s and play truly soft and didn't really do much in big situations- and Pierce's teams weren't worse than McGrady's.

I say that to boost Paul Pierce, but also to bring McGrady down to earth..he was a superior talent who genuinely did not play hard.

Pierce is a 1st ballot hall of famer. Not a dig at McGrady to say they were comparable.

[Phoenix]

I don't see how the Magic don't improve with Pierce over him.



Pierce had a few rosters better than Tmac's and got bounced in the first round a handful of times. He's not taking that Magic squad further than Tmac did. Winning that title in 08 and being a part of that 'Big 3' squad with KG and Ray has made people forget that he wasn't doing much for the bulk of the 2000's outside of a ECFs trip in 2002.

[FireDavidKahn]

How McGrady managed to lose with these rosters I'll never know

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2002260418450099.jpg

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2002260447270092.png

?

He was playing with MJ though?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtV9BFtXgAAmCrC.jpg

[Whoah10115]

Pierce had a few rosters better than Tmac's and got bounced in the first round a handful of times. He's not taking that Magic squad further than Tmac did. Winning that title in 08 and being a part of that 'Big 3' squad with KG and Ray has made people forget that he wasn't doing much for the bulk of the 2000's outside of a ECFs trip in 2002.


I didn't forget. I think his teams were worse than McGrady's (typo before). Pierce was a big game player, as the main guy. I think you drop Walker from those teams and they don't lose a step, but that Pierce's numbers to thru the roof.

And his teams got worse as time went on. He dropped PPG some years, picked up RPG, did what he needed to do.

[kawhileonard2]

How McGrady managed to lose with these rosters I'll never know

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2002260418450099.jpg

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2002260447270092.png

What do you mean?

[TheGoatest]

He did win multiple games in the first round though, without having to be bailed out by a single player.

[Phoenix]

What do you mean?

https://c.tenor.com/MNWOJceRNbwAAAAM/joke-missed-joke.gif

[ShawkFactory]

the "real mcgrady" .... ok

he went to the rockets at 25 years old.

You're just full of excuses.

And? He started declining physically his last year with Orlando and was not the same player in Houston.

[Axe]

He did win multiple games in the first round though, without having to be bailed out by a single player.
Meltdown.

[Phoenix]

And? He started declining physically his last year with Orlando and was not the same player in Houston.

Hell, he was actually having back problems during that 2003 season. Can you imagine if you took Tmac between 2001-2003 and dropped him in 2005 post rule changes? He'd have been dropping 35 as well.

[ShawkFactory]

Hell, he was actually having back problems during that 2003 season. Can you imagine if you took Tmac between 2001-2003 and dropped him in 2005 post rule changes? He'd have been dropping 35 as well.

Yea he was noticeably less consistently explosive in 2005 than before. He could get up in spurts or on nights where he was feeling good but 2002 was a completely different player.