LeBron's 2009 ECF

[FireDavidKahn]

LeBron James in the 2009 ECF loss vs. Orlando:

• 38.5 PPG
• 8.3 RPG
• 8.0 APG
• 1.2 SPG
• 1.2 BPG
• 49 FG%
• 30 3FG%
• 75 FT%

• In the clutch: 56 FG%, 50 3FG%, 80 FT%, including a game winning buzzer beater 3 in game 2. But yeah, let’s kill LeBron for leaving to Miami. https://t.co/yOHzsvCger

And people blame him for leaving:lol

[SouBeachTalents]

And people here clown on him for that series all the time :lol

The ONLY legit criticism is he didn't have (ironically for him) a great elimination game in Game 6. The rest of the series? He played at a god like level

[FireDavidKahn]

And people here clown on him for that series all the time :lol

The ONLY legit criticism is he didn't have (ironically for him) a great elimination game in Game 6. The rest of the series? He played at a god like level

The loser couldn't even average a 40 point triple double

[Wally450]

And people here clown on him for that series all the time :lol

The ONLY legit criticism is he didn't have (ironically for him) a great elimination game in Game 6. The rest of the series? He played at a god like level

I’ll take who is 3ball for $800.

[Lebron23]

Video Game LeBron. If only Mo Williams shows up in that series.

[ImKobe]

Let's look at the 4th quarters in the 4 losses then.

Game 1 - 4/6, 1 missed FT, 1 TO and a +/- of 0 in the 4th in a 1-pt loss, pretty decent by his standards.

Game 3 - 3/8 with 5 missed FTs, 1 TO and a -5 in the 4th quarter of Game 3, Cavs lose by 5.
Game 4 - 2/5 with 2 missed FTs, 4 TOs and a -1 in the 4th quarter, 3/7 with 3 turnovers and a -2 in OT.
Game 6 - 1/4 with 2 missed FTs, 1 TO and a +3 in the 4th but they were down 16 to begin with, so he couldn't even bring them back in garbage time

So in the 4 losses, he was 10/23 (43.5%) with 10 missed FTs & 7 TOs and with a -3 in total in those 4th quarters, that OT wasn't great either.

[John Connor]

Let's look at the 4th quarters in the 4 losses then.

Game 1 - 4/6, 1 missed FT, 1 TO and a +/- of 0 in the 4th in a 1-pt loss, pretty decent by his standards.

Game 3 - 3/8 with 5 missed FTs, 1 TO and a -5 in the 4th quarter of Game 3, Cavs lose by 5.
Game 4 - 2/5 with 2 missed FTs, 4 TOs and a -1 in the 4th quarter, 3/7 with 3 turnovers and a -2 in OT.
Game 6 - 1/4 with 2 missed FTs, 1 TO and a +3 in the 4th but they were down 16 to begin with, so he couldn't even bring them back in garbage time

So in the 4 losses, he was 10/23 (43.5%) with 10 missed FTs & 7 TOs and with a -3 in total in those 4th quarters, that OT wasn't great either.


The glaring part that you're ignoring is the fact that with any other star player in the entire league, that Cavs team gets swept in that series and the games wouldn't be close.

[Docs Orders]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkvTLOhm-TQ

[ImKobe]

The glaring part that you're ignoring is the fact that with any other star player in the entire league, that Cavs team gets swept in that series and the games wouldn't be close.

Yeah sure, because the Magic didn't lose any games in the previous rounds against lesser teams... Iguodala and Andre Miller-led Sixers took them to 6. Boston without KG took them to 7. If you're going to cite me the averages of other players, that's saying nothing when putting someone else in Lebron's position because the Magic defended him a certain way due to his skillset and it worked for them, who's to say Kobe or Wade wouldn't have been able to do better?

[SouBeachTalents]

Let's look at the 4th quarters in the 4 losses then.

Game 1 - 4/6, 1 missed FT, 1 TO and a +/- of 0 in the 4th in a 1-pt loss, pretty decent by his standards.

Game 3 - 3/8 with 5 missed FTs, 1 TO and a -5 in the 4th quarter of Game 3, Cavs lose by 5.
Game 4 - 2/5 with 2 missed FTs, 4 TOs and a -1 in the 4th quarter, 3/7 with 3 turnovers and a -2 in OT.
Game 6 - 1/4 with 2 missed FTs, 1 TO and a +3 in the 4th but they were down 16 to begin with, so he couldn't even bring them back in garbage time

So in the 4 losses, he was 10/23 (43.5%) with 10 missed FTs & 7 TOs and with a -3 in total in those 4th quarters, that OT wasn't great either.
Lmao at leaving off the amount of points he scored, when he reached double digits in the 4th & OT in 3 of those games

[ImKobe]

Lmao at leaving off the amount of points he scored, when he reached double digits in the 4th & OT in 3 of those games

I couldn' be bothered making the post any longer than it was, the stats presented tell you everything you need to know about those 4th quarters. He was far from perfect in that series.

[RRR3]

ImMelting seething as usual

[ImKobe]

ImMelting seething as usual

Orlando's strategy worked because Lebron wasn't a consistent jump shooter, so they played soft on him to take away the Cavs' perimeter scoring, he wore down by the course of the series and his teammates weren't getting those open looks they were used to getting all season with teams constantly doubling him. You'll praise his numbers but the Magic did exactly what they needed in order to win that series.

[John Connor]

Yeah sure, because the Magic didn't lose any games in the previous rounds against lesser teams... Iguodala and Andre Miller-led Sixers took them to 6. Boston without KG took them to 7. If you're going to cite me the averages of other players, that's saying nothing when putting someone else in Lebron's position because the Magic defended him a certain way due to his skillset and it worked for them, who's to say Kobe or Wade wouldn't have been able to do better?


I think you're basically not understanding that the entire point was that Cleveland roster was... well... bad. You start talking about other teams and how those other teams would have fared against the Magic and how those other teams did fare against the Magic as if that's relevant to the conversation. It's not.

It's all speculation anyways but I do remember the season and I do remember those Cavaliers and there is not another star player in the entire league that could have filled in for LeBron and gotten a better result. Not one.

[BigShotBob]

I think you're basically not understanding that the entire point was that Cleveland roster was... well... bad. You start talking about other teams and how those other teams would have fared against the Magic and how those other teams did fare against the Magic as if that's relevant to the conversation. It's not.

It's all speculation anyways but I do remember the season and I do remember those Cavaliers and there is not another star player in the entire league that could have filled in for LeBron and gotten a better result. Not one.

Well, the team was built for him. That's why they won so many games in the regular reason.

But they weren't built for the playoffs and that much was obvious. Let Lebron get his and shut everyone else down. Basic strategy.

[ImKobe]

I think you're basically not understanding that the entire point was that Cleveland roster was... well... bad. You start talking about other teams and how those other teams would have fared against the Magic and how those other teams did fare against the Magic as if that's relevant to the conversation. It's not.

It's all speculation anyways but I do remember the season and I do remember those Cavaliers and there is not another star player in the entire league that could have filled in for LeBron and gotten a better result. Not one.

Those Cavs teams were built around Lebron's strengths, but you want to tell me Kobe or Wade couldn't do what he did with the shooting and the bigs that roster had? You want to tell me that 08 Lakers roster was any better that Kobe had in the Playoffs with Bynum and Ariza injured? You think the 2006 Heat roster was any better?

[ClipperRevival]

And people here clown on him for that series all the time :lol

The ONLY legit criticism is he didn't have (ironically for him) a great elimination game in Game 6. The rest of the series? He played at a god like level

If you Bron fans want to go with that "1-9" bullsh*t, you have to take this series too. :D

Consider MJ in his 10 playoff games in 1985, 1986 and 1987:

35.5 PPG
6.3 RPG
6.9 APG
2.4 SPG
1.5 BPG
27.4 PER

That's his 1st 3 seasons in the league BTW.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Dwight was the best player of the series and outplayed him

Boxscore numbers dont gauge defense and Dwight had that shit locked while shooters kept getting scorched earth with Bran

[red1]

Dwight was the best player of the series and outplayed him

Boxscore numbers dont gauge defense and Dwight had that shit locked while shooters kept getting scorched earth with Bran

not even close. lebron was at his absolute best that year and was MUCH better than dwight. dwight only looked decent because he went up against old z and he had a huge advantage because his team was hitting shot after shot shooting over midgets.


24 year old lebron is the most athletic human of all time and his shot was falling making him borderline unstoppable - despite the magics HUGE advantages if mo williams couldve made a few of the wide open shots he was making all regular season the cavs could've still won that series.

[StrongLurk]

Replace Kobe with Rookie year Lebron to year 8 Lebron...he would have won 5 titles with Shaq between 96-04.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

not even close. lebron was at his absolute best that year and was MUCH better than dwight. dwight only looked decent because he went up against old z and he had a huge advantage because his team was hitting shot after shot shooting over midgets.


24 year old lebron is the most athletic human of all time and his shot was falling making him borderline unstoppable - despite the magics HUGE advantages if mo williams couldve made a few of the wide open shots he was making all regular season the cavs could've still won that series.

LOL Orlandos perimeter defense was ass

Bran was gwan up against Hedo Turkogly, Mikael Peitrus and Courtney Lee

those dudes werent even getting meaningful minutes in the league a couple seasons later

[ClipperRevival]

Bron fans seething in this thread.

Dwight was DOMINANT in that series. Stats only tell part of the story like Durthickemz said. Dwight was dominant on the D end while also giving you 26 PPG on dominant efficiency too. You can make a case he was the best player in that series.

[red1]

Bron fans seething in this thread.

Dwight was DOMINANT in that series. Stats only tell part of the story like Durthickemz said. Dwight was dominant on the D end while also giving you 26 PPG on dominant efficiency too. You can make a case he was the best player in that series.

any big would be dominant playing against an ancient Z's corpse - what happened to dwight the next round against odom and gasol who could actually move laterally?


dwight got destroyed.

[ClipperRevival]

Superman in that series:

25.8 PPG
13.0 RPG
2.8 APG
1.2 BPG (super low for his standards)
.651% FG
.701% FT

[red1]

LOL Orlandos perimeter defense was ass

Bran was gwan up against Hedo Turkogly, Mikael Peitrus and Courtney Lee

those dudes werent even getting meaningful minutes in the league a couple seasons later

lebron playing like that would've cooked any defender... he had disgusting elevation on everything and was in his absolute prime literally unguardable...


the issues with those cleveland teams were the complete lack of offensive talent and the easily exploitable defenders. it isnt rocket science.

[Lebron23]

any big would be dominant playing against an ancient Z's corpse - what happened to dwight the next round against odom and gasol who could actually move laterally?


dwight got destroyed.

True. They only won 1 game against the Lakers.

[red1]

True. They only won 1 game against the Lakers.

bron was absolutely incredible that season. it was GOAT shit.

https://basketballsocietyonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Lebron-2009-NBA.jpg

[SouBeachTalents]

Lol at people actually saying Dwight was the best player in that series :oldlol: What a bunch of clowns. LeBron outplayed Dwight by a substantial margin each of the first 5 games.

[Spurs m8]

Runs away when it gets too hard.

Classic LeRoid

[Mr Feeny]

Let's look at the 4th quarters in the 4 losses then.

Game 1 - 4/6, 1 missed FT, 1 TO and a +/- of 0 in the 4th in a 1-pt loss, pretty decent by his standards.

Game 3 - 3/8 with 5 missed FTs, 1 TO and a -5 in the 4th quarter of Game 3, Cavs lose by 5.
Game 4 - 2/5 with 2 missed FTs, 4 TOs and a -1 in the 4th quarter, 3/7 with 3 turnovers and a -2 in OT.
Game 6 - 1/4 with 2 missed FTs, 1 TO and a +3 in the 4th but they were down 16 to begin with, so he couldn't even bring them back in garbage time

So in the 4 losses, he was 10/23 (43.5%) with 10 missed FTs & 7 TOs and with a -3 in total in those 4th quarters, that OT wasn't great either.


Interesting that you hqvent mentioned his ppg, apg, rpg averages.
43.5%incidently, while bad for Lebron's standards given that he shot 48% overall against Orlando, was Kobe's fog percentage against Orlando a round later.

[Mr Feeny]

Those Cavs teams were built around Lebron's strengths, but you want to tell me Kobe or Wade couldn't do what he did with the shooting and the bigs that roster had? You want to tell me that 08 Lakers roster was any better that Kobe had in the Playoffs with Bynum and Ariza injured? You think the 2006 Heat roster was any better?

Is this a joke? The 2008 lakers were much better than the 2006 Heat that Wade dragged to the title, and much better than the 2009 Cavs.

[Uncle Drew]

Orlando's strategy worked because Lebron wasn't a consistent jump shooter, so they played soft on him to take away the Cavs' perimeter scoring, he wore down by the course of the series and his teammates weren't getting those open looks they were used to getting all season with teams constantly doubling him. You'll praise his numbers but the Magic did exactly what they needed in order to win that series.

It worked because Turkoglu, Lewis, Pietrus and Alston turned into snipers for six straight games.

[Uncle Drew]

The Magic outscored the Cavaliers by 15 over 6 games. Turkoglu, Lewis, Pietrus and Alston combined for 55/127 in 3s in said 6 games. 43%(!). Hurr durr Howard. Hurr durr, jump shooter. Anyone who paid attention to that series for 5 seconds knows this.

[No Sir]

43.5%incidently, while bad for Lebron's standards given that he shot 48% overall against Orlando, was Kobe's fog percentage against Orlando a round later.
:oldlol:Kobe Stans bringing up Fg% pretty much never ends well

[ImKobe]

Is this a joke? The 2008 lakers were much better than the 2006 Heat that Wade dragged to the title, and much better than the 2009 Cavs.

Much better? Based on what? Kobe beat San Antonio in 5 with Pau Gasol averaging 13 points on 47%TS while getting raped by Duncan. Gasol ended up averaging 16.9 ppg for that run, but he was terrible in the WCF and in the Finals. They had no real depth to them. Vujacic was a 6th man in the Playoffs :kobe: . Cavs' 2-6 was better than the Lakers' 2-6.

[ImKobe]

Interesting that you hqvent mentioned his ppg, apg, rpg averages.
43.5%incidently, while bad for Lebron's standards given that he shot 48% overall against Orlando, was Kobe's fog percentage against Orlando a round later.

Add on the fact that he was also a worse FT shooter & turned the ball over more and it just gets a lot worse. That Game 4 was AWFUL. How the hell do you have 7 turnovers in just 4th + OT? The FG% is only respectable due to Game 1, he played like shit in the last three losses. Consider that they played soft coverage on him and he had the freedom to attack the basket on most of his possessions. I knew you would make this about Kobe because you can't dispute what Lebron did when it came down to it. If he was as perfect as you guys claimed, they wouldn't have lost the series.

[Whoah10115]

Remember that series.

He put up numbers, but his numbers were greater than his play.

Doesn't mean he didn't play well, and doesn't mean he shouldn't have left. But Howard was BETTER than LeBron that series.

Watching the series, LeBron's numbers were hard to recognize.

[tpols]

He lost to Dwight and scrubs with a 66 win team.

Next...

[superduper]

Some people just aren't as impactful as their stats show.

[SouBeachTalents]

Add on the fact that he was also a worse FT shooter & turned the ball over more and it just gets a lot worse. That Game 4 was AWFUL. How the hell do you have 7 turnovers in just 4th + OT? The FG% is only respectable due to Game 1, he played like shit in the last three losses. Consider that they played soft coverage on him and he had the freedom to attack the basket on most of his possessions. I knew you would make this about Kobe because you can't dispute what Lebron did when it came down to it. If he was as perfect as you guys claimed, they wouldn't have lost the series.
LeBron last 3 losses: 37/9/8 54%TS 4 TO's
Kobe 2009 Finals: 32/6/7 53%TS 3 TO's

At least we know you think Kobe played like shit in what was the best Finals of his career :lol

[Doranku]

Is this a joke? The 2008 lakers were much better than the 2006 Heat that Wade dragged to the title, and much better than the 2009 Cavs.

Maybe healthy, but the '08 Lakers team that was active during the playoffs? Outside of Kobe/Gasol, these were the players who played >10 minutes a game:

Odom
Fisher
Vlad Radmanovic
Sasha Vujajic
Jordan Farmar
Luke Walton

Most of these guys literally could not survive in the league without Kobe. :lol They were certainly not much better than a team like the '06 Heat who had a superstar in Wade, past-prime but still very effective Shaq, and a myriad of veterans like JWill, Zo, Gary Payton along with a few more solid role players in Walker, Haslem, and James Posey.

[eliteballer]

At least we know you think Kobe played like shit in what was the best Finals of his career :lol

Are we comparing with or without Steroids?

[Ainosterhaspie]

The Magic that year had a DRtg of 101.9. They were the best defense in the league because Howard was a beast back then. But in that series the Cavs offense led by LeBron absolutely torched the best defense in the league with an ORtg of 110.6. The Lakers had a 110.8 ORtg against Orlando. The Lakers and Cavaliers offense were basically equally effective. So why did one team only lose one game and the other lose four?

The Orlando ORtg agaisnt the Cavs was 113.3, against the Lakers it plummeted to 100.5. The Magic were on fire from three shooting 41% as a team against the Cavs, but only shot 33% against the Lakers. The Lakers interior defenders kept Howard in check, the Cavaliers interior defenders couldn't manage that.

The anti-LeBron narratives from that series are ridiculous and anyone spouting them looks like a moron. The problem wasn't the Cavs offense. It did a fantastic job against an elite defensive team, and LeBron was the key to that. The Cavs lost that series because the Magic as a team lit it up from the three point line and the Cavs bigs couldn't contain Howard inside. Unless you think LeBron should be simultaneously shutting down Howard inside and locking down multiple shooters on the perimeter, then the defensive problems are clearly not something it was possible for him or any other singular defender to fix.

Or maybe LeBron should have averaged a 40 point triple double to make up for the Cavs inferior defense, because he was damn near that and it wasn't enough. I'll concede he should have done that if someone can point me to the player in history who pulled off that same feat against the best defense in the league. Until then you're full of shit, because your standard for what he should have done is one that has never been achieved.

[Wally450]

Are we comparing with or without Steroids?

You're right, Kobe took trips to Germany for steroid injections. Not a fair argument.

[Ainosterhaspie]

And I might as well take a moment here to defend MJ from similarly idiodic takes. Look 1-9 is fun for occasional trollery, but it's 99% bullshit. He was facing one of the greatest teams ever two of those series and was a rookie the other. Of course he got his ass handed to him, but he at least balled and convinced a legend he was god in the process. No reasonable basketball fan could expect more from those series.

If there's any criticism to put on MJ those first three years, it's that he had such a low seed. Had he led his team to a better record, maybe he's facing the Hawks in the first round and gets a couple wins or maybe wins the series. But even this criticism is barely sensible.

He got a freak injury and missed most of his second year so there wasn't really any way to get a decent seed. Obviously his team was trash as they couldn't maintain a 30 win pace without him. He elevated them from a 27 win team to a 38 win team and seventh seed (albeit with a losing record) his first year. Hard to fault a rookie for not doing more than that.

But by year three maybe we can fairly say he should have been getting winning records and mid seeds by then and not give him a pass for getting stomped by the Celtics. He shouldn't have had to face them that soon.

Outside of that mild criticism, we should marvel at how well he played facing daunting odds against an elite team. In the same vein, people should marvel at LeBron's performance against the Magic and tip their hats to the Magic team that had a great series, instead of making fools of themselves criticizing that elite performance by LeBron or disrespecting a well constructed magic team that managed to show an early hint of the three ball revolution that was coming.

[plowking]

Let's look at the 4th quarters in the 4 losses then.

Game 1 - 4/6, 1 missed FT, 1 TO and a +/- of 0 in the 4th in a 1-pt loss, pretty decent by his standards.

Game 3 - 3/8 with 5 missed FTs, 1 TO and a -5 in the 4th quarter of Game 3, Cavs lose by 5.
Game 4 - 2/5 with 2 missed FTs, 4 TOs and a -1 in the 4th quarter, 3/7 with 3 turnovers and a -2 in OT.
Game 6 - 1/4 with 2 missed FTs, 1 TO and a +3 in the 4th but they were down 16 to begin with, so he couldn't even bring them back in garbage time

So in the 4 losses, he was 10/23 (43.5%) with 10 missed FTs & 7 TOs and with a -3 in total in those 4th quarters, that OT wasn't great either.

If this is as simple as it gets, then Shaq absolutely dusted Hakeem in the series he got swept in. Not only did he have the better stats in general, he actually demolished Hakeem in the clutch as well, posting the far better figures.

People just need to cut the bullshit and admit that sometimes the other team was far better and a single player couldn't get it done on his own, no matter the level of play.

[FireDavidKahn]

If this is as simple as it gets, then Shaq absolutely dusted Hakeem in the series he got swept in. Not only did he have the better stats in general, he actually demolished Hakeem in the clutch as well, posting the far better figures.

People just need to cut the bullshit and admit that sometimes the other team was far better and a single player couldn't get it done on his own, no matter the level of play.

People can't even do that with KG...:oldlol: