The nba and people in general are overrating to coronavirus.

[Bronbron23]

As of right now its looking like its gonna be as bad as the common flu. I dont see anyone worrying about that. peolple are more likely to die by cancer or a car crash and i dont see anyone worrying about that. I dont know the fear just seems irrational to me. Yesterday my girl was on the phone talking to her friend about the scariness and seriousness of the coronavirus. All while smoking cigarette and talking on her cell which are both more likely to kill her. She then nuked her lunch in radioactive microwave and then drove to her moms in her car. Again both are things that are more likely to cause her death but she wasnt worried in the least bit.

So how do most of yall feel about all this shit?

[BurningHammer]

:facepalm

[Derka]

I think the concern is warranted. We've had pandemics before and none of them caused entire developed nations to shut down and entire segments of industry to screech to a halt. That doesn't happen because OMG FACEBOOK AND MAINSTREAM MEDIA PANIC U GUYS DERP-DERP!!! There's clearly a lot more to this than the flu.

[MaxFly]

As of right now its looking like its gonna be as bad as the common flu. I dont see anyone worrying about that. peolple are more likely to die by cancer or a car crash and i dont see anyone worrying about that. I dont know the fear just seems irrational to me. Yesterday my girl was on the phone talking to her friend about the scariness and seriousness of the coronavirus. All while smoking cigarette and talking on her cell which are both more likely to kill her. She then nuked her lunch in radioactive microwave and then drove to her moms in her car. Again both are things that are more likely to cause her death but she wasnt worried in the least bit.

So how do most of yall feel about all this shit?

Do you know how microwaves heat food?

[Stephonit]

The coronavirus appears as contagious as the flu. It is estimated to have a mortality rate of 1-3%. Given this it clearly has the potential to kill millions—more than many wars. Treating it as seriously as a war seems warranted.

[NBAGOAT]

Fyi according to one source flu has mortality rate of 0.1%. Absolutely something worth being paranoid about especially if you’re around anyone elderly

[TheMan]

The coronavirus appears as contagious as the flu. It is estimated to have a mortality rate of 1-3%. Given this it clearly has the potential to kill millions—more than many wars. Treating it as seriously as a war seems warranted.

It's supposed to be way more contagious than the common flu, it's why the world is freaking out...not that it has a very high mortality rate but that it has the potential to spread like wildfire.

[tontoz]

I think a big issue is that flu has been around so long that many have built up some immunity to it. I can't remember the last time I got the flu and I never get a flu shot.

Since this virus is new our body hasn't built up defenses against it.

[FKAri]

What makes you think you are qualified to analyze the data and make this assessment? Do you just always distrust authority or do you live your life by free thinking your way through everything?

[Bronbron23]

Do you know how microwaves heat food?

They use some type of radiation radio waves. I dont know the exact science and there is debate over how harful microwaves are. I was just giving examples of all the harmful things that people exapose themselves too. Maybe the microwave one was a bad example but you get the point.

[BigKobeFan]

You need to look at the ages of people with mortality rates.

[Bronbron23]

I do tend to be more on the free thinking side. Im obviously no expert but i just look at the facts. They coronavirus has a similar death rate as the influenza. If that changes than id probably be more concerned but if i dont worry about the flu why would i worry about something thats basically the same thing?

If the coronavirus death rate stays the same as it is then people will soon get over this fear and get back to buisness as usual and a year or 2 from now the coronavirus will be looked at similar to the few.

[FKAri]

I do tend to be more on the free thinking side. Im obviously no expert but i just look at the facts. They coronavirus has a similar death rate as the influenza. If that changes than id probably be more concerned but if i dont worry about the flu why would i worry about something thats basically the same thing?

If the coronavirus death rate stays the same as it is then people will soon get over this fear and get back to buisness as usual and a year or 2 from now the coronavirus will be looked at similar to the few.
Again, you are not qualified to just look at a bunch of numbers and understand what they're telling you. Just like you're not qualified to determine if microwaves are dangerous and to what extent. Common sense won't get you far in understanding modern science. So it just comes down to who you want to listen to. These days it seems everyone comes up with their own theory/analysis and then looks to see if they can find someone on twitter/TV who thinks the same and that's enough to decide that they're right.

This is the problem with distrust in authority, individualism and "free thinking". It can be healthy and work most of the time until you need people to mobilize. That's why the army is the antithesis of all those things. They'd get nothing done if they operated on those principles.

[Levity]

Im obviously no expert but i just look at the facts. They coronavirus has a similar death rate as the influenza.

but it doesnt.

[coin24]

Blame the media. Fear mongering at its finest.
We have 76 cases here, and a leading news outlets story was prepare for the wave of 1.5 million cases. Really? That is irresponsible reporting and inciting panic for no reason.
It's the same as if you u catch the flu, stay home and away from public places. Why are people so fkn stupid :facepalm

[FKAri]

Blame the media. Fear mongering at its finest.
We have 76 cases here, and a leading news outlets story was prepare for the wave of 1.5 million cases. Really? That is irresponsible reporting and inciting panic for no reason.
It's the same as if you u catch the flu, stay home and away from public places. Why are people so fkn stupid :facepalm
And that's all they're doing. Why are you acting like it's something beyond that? Also, there's not much to gain by being alarmist about something like this whereas a lot of very wealthy people have a lot to gain by under selling. All those wealthy people trump the few vaccine researchers looking for research money. There might also be another scenario you're thinking, "this is a ploy by the shadowy globalists to control people". This post is getting long so I'll only argue against that if you REALLY want me to.

[DoctorP]

another low IQ Gobert -like thread starter

[Patrick Chewing]

36 deaths in the US so far.


About 500 people probably slipped or fell off a ladder to their death today.



We gonna be aight.

[BarberSchool]

Fyi according to one source flu has mortality rate of 0.1%. Absolutely something worth being paranoid about especially if you’re around anyone elderlyIt can do permanent Pulmonary Fibrosis damage even to the 99%+ that survive.

[Draz]

The concern for a lot of people is bringing home a virus that can very likely kill their older parents or grandparents.

[bladefd]

36 deaths in the US so far.


About 500 people probably slipped or fell off a ladder to their death today.



We gonna be aight.

Thoughts?

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/continuing-coverage/coronavirus/ohio-department-of-health-says-100-000-ohioans-are-carrying-coronavirus

Ohio health department lying??

[CelticBaller]

Disagreed. Coronavirus is playing in a tougher era with all this medicine and technology. If anything I’d say it’s at least top 5. I’d drop the Black Plague since it played with part time blacksmiths

[tpols]

total joke this whole things been.

[Patrick Chewing]

Thoughts?

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/continuing-coverage/coronavirus/ohio-department-of-health-says-100-000-ohioans-are-carrying-coronavirus

Ohio health department lying??

The number of people with the flu is probably 10 times that. I'm more focused on the mortality rate here in the States. For all those cases you mentioned in Ohio, 36 deaths across the entire United States is still minuscule.

And again, I'm not downplaying the threat. Just downplaying the hysteria that's all.

[bladefd]

The number of people with the flu is probably 10 times that. I'm more focused on the mortality rate here in the States. For all those cases you mentioned in Ohio, 36 deaths across the entire United States is still minuscule.

And again, I'm not downplaying the threat. Just downplaying the hysteria that's all.

Low mortality rate, but it will still overwhelm our hospitals.. What about our elders (like you)? They are the most impacted. You want to go work on getting up those makeshift hospitals with your Trumpeter buddies??

[Patrick Chewing]

Low mortality rate, but it will still overwhelm our hospitals.. What about our elders (like you)? They are the most impacted. You want to go work on getting up those makeshift hospitals with your Trumpeter buddies??

Anything can overwhelm our hospitals. Chicago-area hospitals get overwhelmed every night I’m sure.

But the reality is, is that since we don’t have a current vaccine for this virus yet, then the best is currently being done to contain it. But if China is any indicator of our future, then there is nothing to worry about as cases in China have begun to level off. And this is a country with over 1.3 Billion people. And the first reported case of this virus was back in December.

[highwhey]

Anything can overwhelm our hospitals. Chicago-area hospitals get overwhelmed every night I’m sure.

But the reality is, is that since we don’t have a current vaccine for this virus yet, then the best is currently being done to contain it. But if China is any indicator of our future, then there is nothing to worry about as cases in China have begun to level off. And this is a country with over 1.3 Billion people. And the first reported case of this virus was back in December.

there's the difference, chinese are more efficient.

we have bureaucratic red tape that would delay for weeks if not months.

[bladefd]

Anything can overwhelm our hospitals. Chicago-area hospitals get overwhelmed every night I’m sure.

But the reality is, is that since we don’t have a current vaccine for this virus yet, then the best is currently being done to contain it. But if China is any indicator of our future, then there is nothing to worry about as cases in China have begun to level off. And this is a country with over 1.3 Billion people. And the first reported case of this virus was back in December.

Where are those 2 million tests we were promised last week?? Now Donald and his administration is talking about 4 million tests next week. Next week will be 8 million tests by the following week.. They got you hoodwinked.

Fact is they have done 11,079 tests in 2 months across the country. South Korea is doing 20,000 per day... Think about those numbers for a little bit. Oh and we spend 4x as much per person annually on healthcare.

[Cleverness]

You need to look at the ages of people with mortality rates.

yeah

all the dead people are 80 year old smokers

[Cleverness]

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that

the 2009 swine flu infected nearly 61 million people in the United States and caused 12,469 deaths.

Worldwide, up to 575,400 people died from pandemic swine flu.

there weren't runs on water bottles and toilet paper. the outrage today is largely created by the media / social media.

[DoctorP]

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that

the 2009 swine flu infected nearly 61 million people in the United States and caused 12,469 deaths.

Worldwide, up to 575,400 people died from pandemic swine flu.

there weren't runs on water bottles and toilet paper. the outrage today is largely created by the media / social media.

capital being made, sunn! :pimp:

[coin24]

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that

the 2009 swine flu infected nearly 61 million people in the United States and caused 12,469 deaths.

Worldwide, up to 575,400 people died from pandemic swine flu.

there weren't runs on water bottles and toilet paper. the outrage today is largely created by the media / social media.

:cheers:

Been saying since the start, this is all media fear mongering. It is irresponsible and disgusting.
Then again it shows what dumb sheep the average person is.

[Nanners]

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that

the 2009 swine flu infected nearly 61 million people in the United States and caused 12,469 deaths.

Worldwide, up to 575,400 people died from pandemic swine flu.

there weren't runs on water bottles and toilet paper. the outrage today is largely created by the media / social media.

this coronavirus nonsense is going to be remembered the same way we remember the y2k hysteria

[Nanners]

~60-70k americans died last year because they were unable to afford our obscenely overpriced healthcare (thats ~200 per day).

An estimated ~70-80k americans will die from opiate overdoses this year.

50-60k americans will die from common flu this year.

~50k americans will commit suicide this year

so far, a grand total of 41 americans have died to this strain of coronavirus

anyway, we should definitely crash the global economy over a mild cough that in the past 2 months has killed 3,100 immune compromised senior citizens in China... a densely populated country of 1,386,000,000

[DoctorP]

this coronavirus nonsense is going to be remembered the same way we remember the y2k hysteria

or bird flu

[diamenz]

but i wonder - where will we be a week, two weeks and a month out from now? do we/are we getting a real handle on this?

[ItsMillerTime]

Anything can overwhelm our hospitals. Chicago-area hospitals get overwhelmed every night I’m sure.

But the reality is, is that since we don’t have a current vaccine for this virus yet, then the best is currently being done to contain it. But if China is any indicator of our future, then there is nothing to worry about as cases in China have begun to level off. And this is a country with over 1.3 Billion people. And the first reported case of this virus was back in December.

That's because China took DRASTIC measures to ensure it didn't spread even more. They basically militarized their healthcare force and setup fever stations all over the country. If you were suspected of having a fever, you were forced to go to one of these locations and get tested. If you tested positive for COVID-19, they took you right then and there to a makeshift hospital. No saying goodbye to your families, no going home to self-quarantine. They locked that shit up quickly. AND they had plenty of tests available because their government didn't fvck around like ours did.

[Bronbron23]

Yeah i agree with that to a point. You still have to use common sense though and i can absolutely look at the data and make a educated guess. Thats what most medical experts are doing. They really dont know themselves but they look at the facts and form an Opinion. The fact that the medical community itself is split on the seriousness of it shows this. The fact is that as of right now the coronavirus virus looks to be about as serious as the flu. The flu is pretty serious, it effects and kills millions of people. So its not like im saying the coronavirus isnt serious. Im just saying that the fear of it is irrational when you look at its impact when compared to other things that can kill you that people dont worry about.

[Bronbron23]

Well all signs are pointing to the coronavirus being similar to the influenza which is much worse at this time of year. The virus should hopefully a major drop off with the changing of the season. Much like the flu does. Thats the hope anyway.

[Kungfro]

but i wonder - where will we be a week, two weeks and a month out from now? do we/are we getting a real handle on this?

Until we know the real extent of infections there's no way to get a handle on it.

https://i.ibb.co/THx97nJ/coronatestspercapita.png

[MaxFly]

They use some type of radiation radio waves. I dont know the exact science and there is debate over how harful microwaves are. I was just giving examples of all the harmful things that people exapose themselves too. Maybe the microwave one was a bad example but you get the point.

Microwaves use oscillating electromagnetic radio waves generated at a specific wavelength to excite water molecules in food. The water molecules vibrate and heat up, heating the food. No nuclear power is used and microwaves don't pose a real health risk other than some of the unhealthy foods some people choose to microwave. Yes, it was a bad example.

As far as we know right now, Coronavirus is sveral times deadlier than the flu and is apparently much more communicable a disease. The issue is that while most people will be just fine, elders and individuals with health challenges are at real risk. In order to protect those individuals, all of us need to take precautions.

[Bronbron23]

Microwaves use oscillating electromagnetic radio waves generated at a specific wavelength to excite water molecules in food. The water molecules vibrate and heat up, heating the food. No nuclear power is used and microwaves don't pose a real health risk other than some of the unhealthy foods some people choose to microwave. Yes, it was a bad example.

As far as we know right now, Coronavirus is sveral times deadlier than the flu and is apparently much more communicable a disease. The issue is that while most people will be just fine, elders and individuals with health challenges are at real risk. In order to protect those individuals, all of us need to take precautions.

I know they dont use nuclear energy. Nuke was just a term peolke use for microwaving food. They do use radiation though although its said not to be harmful and cause cancer. Anyway as i said it may not have nmbern the greatest of examples. Lots of things are though. Cancer and driving are more dangerous and i bet the same people worrying about coronavirus dont think twice about smoking and driving every day.

As far as it compares to the flu it really isnt much worse. The numbers suggest its just slightly more deadly and contagious. These numbers are expected to drop also because right now the coronavirus numbers are based on the severe cases. Theres most likely thousands more unknown cases where the symptoms arnt that bad or just arnt reported. The more we learn about the coronavirus the more likely the numbers are gonna drop closer and closer to the flu.

Time will tell but id be surprised if this panic and worry dosnt die off in a month or 2 once we learn more about the coronavirus and realize its not any worse than some of the other things out there they we dont worry about.

[bigkingsfan]

I know they dont use nuclear energy. Nuke was just a term peolke use for microwaving food. They do use radiation though although its said not to be harmful and cause cancer. Anyway as i said it may not have nmbern the greatest of examples. Lots of things are though. Cancer and driving are more dangerous and i bet the same people worrying about coronavirus dont think twice about smoking and driving every day.

As far as it compares to the flu it really isnt much worse. The numbers suggest its just slightly more deadly and contagious. These numbers are expected to drop also because right now the coronavirus numbers are based on the severe cases. Theres most likely thousands more unknown cases where the symptoms arnt that bad or just arnt reported. The more we learn about the coronavirus the more likely the numbers are gonna drop closer and closer to the flu.

Time will tell but id be surprised if this panic and worry dosnt die off in a month or 2 once we learn more about the coronavirus and realize its not any worse than some of the other things out there they we dont worry about.

What do you want? Just for this to run its course without any intervention?

[Bronbron23]

No not all. People should use the same precaution as they do with the flu. Wash your hands, use hand sanitizer ect. Dont shut down the world though. Dont spead fear and panic for something thats no worse than the flu. The chances of dying from the coronavirus is pretty low. The death rate numbers are estimated between .07%-3%. This is based on confirmed cases though. The actual numbers are believed to be much higher so the death rate is actually much lower. Probably closer to the flu death rate of .01-.03%

Ohio for example just said that they estimate that 100000 people have coronavirus even though theres under 50 confirmed cases. I dont believe anyone died in ohio from it yet. So thats 0 deaths out 100000 people infected. As we get a better understanding of the coronavirus we'll probably see this throughout the world.

[brownmamba00]

What kind of dumbshit did I just read. Grow a brain, guys. And open your eyes.

[bigkingsfan]

No not all. People should use the same precaution as they do with the flu. Wash your hands, use hand sanitizer ect. Dont shut down the world though. Dont spead fear and panic for something thats no worse than the flu. The chances of dying from the coronavirus is pretty low. The death rate numbers are estimated between .07%-3%. This is based on confirmed cases though. The actual numbers are believed to be much higher so the death rate is actually much lower. Probably closer to the flu death rate of .01-.03%

Ohio for example just said that they estimate that 100000 people have coronavirus even though theres under 50 confirmed cases. I dont believe anyone died in ohio from it yet. So thats 0 deaths out 100000 people infected. As we get a better understanding of the coronavirus we'll probably see this throughout the world.
The chances of dying from this is low, probably 1% or less, but it skyrockets without proper care like what you're seeing in Italy.

The Ohio #'s are made up, no science behind it whatsoever.

[Kungfro]

This is not the flu. Most of us already have some partial immunity to the flu, which is not the case with this. The Flu has a vaccine, this doesn't. It's also been far more infectious then the common flu, and it can spread asymptomatically. We missed the boat for jumping on this, without the extreme measures being taken it will overwhelm the health care system.

[Bronbron23]

The chances of dying from this is low, probably 1% or less, but it skyrockets without proper care like what you're seeing in Italy.

The Ohio #'s are made up, no science behind it whatsoever.

Thats not the main reason why Italy's numbers are so high. They're high because they have the highest elderly population in Europe and almost all of the deaths were people 80 or older. Again Italy's theres like 50 million people in italy. They only screen for sever cases of the virus so theres most likely millions more who have the virus but just have serious symptoms. In time with more study's Italy's death rate will drop also.

And the ohio numbers arnt just made up. Those numbers are from their top health officials. The estimates are based on what they know so far about the coronavirus.

[Norcaliblunt]

No virus has been conclusively proven to be the cause of any disease.

Contact any organization that claims viruses to be the cause of disease and ask them these questions. Is there an electron micrograph of the pure and fully characterized virus? What is the name of the primary specialist peer reviewed paper in which the virus is illustrated and its full genetic information described? What is the name of the primary publication that provides proof that a particular virus is the sole cause of a particular disease?

You won't get any conclusive evidence because it doesn't exist.

[Bronbron23]

I didnt say its the flu just that it has similar effects as the flu and Similar numbers as the flu. Your points about not having built up an immunity and having a vaccine for it is true but only shows how non threatening it is compared to flu. The coronavirus pretty much has the same death rate even though were protected from it much less than the flu. When they get a vaccine and our immune systems do build a tolerance the death rate will probably drop well below the flu.

[bigkingsfan]

Thats not the main reason why Italy's numbers are so high. They're high because they have the highest elderly population in Europe and almost all of the deaths were people 80 or older. Again Italy's theres like 50 million people in italy. They only screen for sever cases of the virus so theres most likely millions more who have the virus but just have serious symptoms. In time with more study's Italy's death rate will drop also.

And the ohio numbers arnt just made up. Those numbers are from their top health officials. The estimates are based on what they know so far about the coronavirus.
Trump is about to announce a national emergency, this is the same guy who has been comparing this to the flu a few days ago. Maybe one day you'll wake up.

[Kungfro]

The coronavirus pretty much has the same death rate even though were protected from it much less than the flu.

I'm not sure what your basing that on but it's certainly not what's been reported so far.


When they get a vaccine and our immune systems do build a tolerance the death rate will probably drop well below the flu.

Experts say we're at least a year out from developing a vaccine and building an immunity requires getting the virus and recovering. Neither solve the issue of hospitals becoming overwhelmed with cases.

[Bronbron23]

Trump is about to announce a national emergency, this is the same guy who has been comparing this to the flu a few days ago. Maybe one day you'll wake up.

Hes declaring it a national emergency because that automatically frees up billions of dollars to fight the virus. Thats a good thing. Im not saying we shouldn't take precautions and shouldn't take necessary steps to combat the coronavirus. We totally should. All im talking about is the panic and fear people have concerning the virus. Its irrational.

[FKAri]

Hes declaring it a national emergency because that automatically frees up billions of dollars to fight the virus. Thats a good thing. Im not saying we shouldn't take precautions and shouldn't take necessary steps to combat the coronavirus. We totally should. All im talking about is the panic and fear people have concerning the virus. Its irrational.

Ya but that stems from distrust in government. As a result people will believe that it's either being overblown or covered up.

[bigkingsfan]

Hes declaring it a national emergency because that automatically frees up billions of dollars to fight the virus. Thats a good thing. Im not saying we shouldn't take precautions and shouldn't take necessary steps to combat the coronavirus. We totally should. All im talking about is the panic and fear people have concerning the virus. Its irrational.

You said to treat it like the flu. Which one is it, take it more seriously or not? :confusedshrug:

[Bronbron23]

You said to treat it like the flu. Which one is it, take it more seriously or not? :confusedshrug:

Treat it like the flu as far as our reaction and fear towards it. As far as precautions also. We should clean our hands and sanitize and stay home if were sick just like the flu. As far as shutting stuff down thats fine for now. Flu season will be over soon and both the flu and coronavirus should be minimized. Everything can re open then

[bigkingsfan]

Treat it like the flu as far as our reaction and fear towards it. As far as precautions also. We should clean our hands and sanitize and stay home if were sick just like the flu. As far as shutting stuff down thats fine for now. Flu season will be over soon and both the flu and coronavirus should be minimized. Everything can re open then
So don't treat it like the flu, gotcha.

[bladefd]

~60-70k americans died last year because they were unable to afford our obscenely overpriced healthcare (thats ~200 per day).

An estimated ~70-80k americans will die from opiate overdoses this year.

50-60k americans will die from common flu this year.

~50k americans will commit suicide this year

so far, a grand total of 41 americans have died to this strain of coronavirus

anyway, we should definitely crash the global economy over a mild cough that in the past 2 months has killed 3,100 immune compromised senior citizens in China... a densely populated country of 1,386,000,000

20 times deadlier than any flu.. Flu has a 0.1% mortality rate which is practically next to nothing, coronavirus around 2%..

Can you imagine how many people would be dying yearly if flu had a 2% mortality rate?

Elder men apparently have a 15% mortality rate, elder women 10%.. That doesn't even include the rate that they end up in the emergency room/isolation. Young people seem to be mostly fine but it's the older population and those with compromised immune systems that are at most danger, as they usually tend to be

[bladefd]

I know they dont use nuclear energy. Nuke was just a term peolke use for microwaving food. They do use radiation though although its said not to be harmful and cause cancer. Anyway as i said it may not have nmbern the greatest of examples. Lots of things are though. Cancer and driving are more dangerous and i bet the same people worrying about coronavirus dont think twice about smoking and driving every day.

Any kind of energy transmission over space is considered radiation. It is a very broad term.

Ionizing radiation is the real danger, but microwave ovens do not use ionizing radiation to heat up your food.. Non-ionizing radiation could also be dangerous in excess amounts but microwave ovens don't bombard your foods with so much that it would pose a health risk. You will be just fine.

[Bronbron23]

So don't treat it like the flu, gotcha.

Again yes and no. As far as fears and worries yes worry about it as much as the flu. As far as steps to lesson the impact of it take all the precautions you want.

[bladefd]

This is not the flu. Most of us already have some partial immunity to the flu, which is not the case with this. The Flu has a vaccine, this doesn't. It's also been far more infectious then the common flu, and it can spread asymptomatically. We missed the boat for jumping on this, without the extreme measures being taken it will overwhelm the health care system.

Don't we also have antivirals we can use for severe cases of the flu?? I don't know how they exactly work but maybe someone with biology or medical background can better explain. My area is only physics, technology, maybe some broad random sciences, evolutionary anthropology :p

Not sure if we can use antivirals for coronavirus treatment..

[bladefd]

No virus has been conclusively proven to be the cause of any disease.

Contact any organization that claims viruses to be the cause of disease and ask them these questions. Is there an electron micrograph of the pure and fully characterized virus? What is the name of the primary specialist peer reviewed paper in which the virus is illustrated and its full genetic information described? What is the name of the primary publication that provides proof that a particular virus is the sole cause of a particular disease?

You won't get any conclusive evidence because it doesn't exist.

What about the virus that causes AIDS? I think they know more about it than you realize after studying it for decades.. They know about many viruses that specifically cause diseases, such as warts, various STDs, etc..

[Bronbron23]

Its not 20 times more deadly than the flu. The numbers your using are calculated by using the confirmed cases with the amount of deaths. The flu numbers are calculated by using flu estimates with the amount of deaths. The coronavirus estimates are probably 20 times higher than the actual confirmed cases so when you factor that in you get about the same numbers as the flu.

A perfect example is ohio. I think they have a few thousand confirmed cases but the health experts estimate that over 100,000 are most likely infected. I dont think anyone died in ohio yet. Do the math dude.

[MaxFly]

I know they dont use nuclear energy. Nuke was just a term peolke use for microwaving food. They do use radiation though although its said not to be harmful and cause cancer. Anyway as i said it may not have nmbern the greatest of examples. Lots of things are though. Cancer and driving are more dangerous and i bet the same people worrying about coronavirus dont think twice about smoking and driving every day.

As far as it compares to the flu it really isnt much worse. The numbers suggest its just slightly more deadly and contagious. These numbers are expected to drop also because right now the coronavirus numbers are based on the severe cases. Theres most likely thousands more unknown cases where the symptoms arnt that bad or just arnt reported. The more we learn about the coronavirus the more likely the numbers are gonna drop closer and closer to the flu.

Time will tell but id be surprised if this panic and worry dosnt die off in a month or 2 once we learn more about the coronavirus and realize its not any worse than some of the other things out there they we dont worry about.


I don't think the average person is worried about dying from Coronavirus. They're worried about transmitting it to friends or family members who are elderly or have compromised immune systems. If you have a compromised immune system, you're more likely to die from Coronavirus in the next 3 months than you are to develop and die from cancer in the next three months. In Italy, more people have contracted and died from Coronavirus in the last month than have suddenly developed cancer and died.

[MaxFly]

Treat it like the flu as far as our reaction and fear towards it. As far as precautions also. We should clean our hands and sanitize and stay home if were sick just like the flu. As far as shutting stuff down thats fine for now. Flu season will be over soon and both the flu and coronavirus should be minimized. Everything can re open then

If we were to treat Coronavirus like we do the flu and react to it like we do the flu, we wouldn't shut anything down... because we don't do that for the flu. Are you saying that states should not call for events with large gatherings to be cancelled? Are they too worried or too fearful in doing so?

[Norcaliblunt]

What about the virus that causes AIDS? I think they know more about it than you realize after studying it for decades.. They know about many viruses that specifically cause diseases, such as warts, various STDs, etc..

Alright. Present the peer review paper which illustrates and proves a virus being the “sole” cause?

[TheMan]

] don't think the average person is worried about dying from Coronavirus. They're worried about transmitting it to friends or family members who are elderly or have compromised immune systems. If you have a compromised immune system, you're more likely to die from Coronavirus in the next 3 months than you are to develop and die from cancer in the next three months. In Italy, more people have contracted and died from Coronavirus in the last month than have suddenly developed cancer and died.
This

Most of us here if not all are not elderly folk, if any of us here at ISH get the CVD19, pretty sure we'll be ok, it's the fact that it's highly contagious and that you can infect other that will down the road infect someone who won't be so fortunate. It's the fact that it's so contagious and that it will eventually affect someone who will have their life at risk that we are talking about but some of these idiots here can't grasp that or even worse, don't care, as long as they think they're safe, they don't give a fukk.

Really tells you just how much pieces of shit they are.

[highwhey]

This

Most of us here if not all are not elderly folk, if any of us here at ISH get the CVD19, pretty sure we'll be ok, it's the fact that it's highly contagious and that you can infect other that will down the road infect someone who won't be so fortunate. It's the fact that it's so contagious and that it will eventually affect someone who will have their life at risk that we are talking about but some of these idiots here can't grasp that or even worse, don't care, as long as they think they're safe, they don't give a fukk.

Really tells you just how much pieces of shit they are.

that's my main concern. i'm distancing myself from my dad who is in his 60s.

still, there are other concerns like the healthcare system being overwhelmed. what if you're get sick from something non-virus related and the ER is backed up? good luck.

but the worst consequence may end up being the economic fallout. even if we contain this in a couple months and it's history by say, summer. the economy won't just bounce back. not even close. it will take years.

[bladefd]

Alright. Present the peer review paper which illustrates and proves a virus being the “sole” cause?

For what? AIDS? We know for a fact that a virus causes AIDS..

[Smoke117]

This is not the flu. Most of us already have some partial immunity to the flu, which is not the case with this. The Flu has a vaccine, this doesn't. It's also been far more infectious then the common flu, and it can spread asymptomatically. We missed the boat for jumping on this, without the extreme measures being taken it will overwhelm the health care system.

The death of this with people under 50 is about .07% dumb ass. It's mostly just killing old and feeble people that have nothing to offer society or anybody in general. If anything it's going to do us a favor and get rid of a lot of the dead weight.

[Cleverness]

If we were to treat Coronavirus like we do the flu and react to it like we do the flu, we wouldn't shut anything down... because we don't do that for the flu. Are you saying that states should not call for events with large gatherings to be cancelled? Are they too worried or too fearful in doing so?

Why didn't we do that for the 2009 Swine Flu? It was killing young/healthy people as well as the elderly. And it spread to ~61 million Americans.

[Loco 50]

2nd hand report from a crit care doc in Italy.

https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/1237142891077697538


From a well respected friend and intensivist/A&E consultant who is currently in northern Italy:
1/ ‘I feel the pressure to give you a quick personal update about what is happening in Italy, and also give some quick direct advice about what you should do.


2/ First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked in Italy, UK and Aus and don’t make the mistake to think that what is happening is happening in a 3rd world country.


3/ The current situation is difficult to imagine and numbers do not explain things at all. Our hospitals are overwhelmed by Covid-19, they are running 200% capacity

4/ We’ve stopped all routine, all ORs have been converted to ITUs and they are now diverting or not treating all other emergencies like trauma or strokes. There are hundreds of pts with severe resp failure and many of them do not have access to anything above a reservoir mask.

5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are starting to get sick and are emotionally overwhelmed.

6/ My friends call me in tears because they see people dying in front of them and they con only offer some oxygen. Ortho and pathologists are being given a leaflet and sent to see patients on NIV. PLEASE STOP, READ THIS AGAIN AND THINK.

7/ We have seen the same pattern in different areas a week apart, and there is no reason that in a few weeks it won’t be the same everywhere, this is the pattern:

8/ 1)A few positive cases, first mild measures, people are told to avoid ED but still hang out in groups, everyone says not to panick
2)Some moderate resp failures and a few severe ones that need tube, but regular access to ED is significantly reduced so everything looks great

9/ 3)Tons of patients with moderate resp failure, that overtime deteriorate to saturate ICUs first, then NIVs, then CPAP hoods, then even O2.
4)Staff gets sick so it gets difficult to cover for shifts, mortality spikes also from all other causes that can’t be treated properly.

10/ Everything about how to treat them is online but the only things that will make a difference are: do not be afraid of massively strict measures to keep people safe,

11/ if governments won’t do this at least keep your family safe, your loved ones with history of cancer or diabetes or any transplant will not be tubed if they need it even if they are young. By safe I mean YOU do not attend them and YOU decide who does and YOU teach them how to.

12/ Another typical attitude is read and listen to people saying things like this and think “that’s bad dude” and then go out for dinner because you think you’ll be safe.

13/ We have seen it, you won’t be if you don’t take it seriously. I really hope it won’t be as bad as here but prepare.

[Loco 50]

My commentary:
Take it seriously or it snowballs. It snowballs, people die. If you give a shit about anyone other than yourself, especially seniors limit your exposure to other people as best you can for the time being.

Reports out of China are saying the virus can maintain viability for hours after a sneeze.....That is problematic.

It can remain alive 24 hours when deposited on cardboard and 2 to 3 days on plastic or steel. These are reasons why it's so infectious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quDYb_x54DM

Decent summary of preventing and/or limiting exposure at 12:30 minutes.

[Loco 50]

Don't we also have antivirals we can use for severe cases of the flu?? I don't know how they exactly work but maybe someone with biology or medical background can better explain. My area is only physics, technology, maybe some broad random sciences, evolutionary anthropology :p

Not sure if we can use antivirals for coronavirus treatment..
Antivirals for flu have to be given within 24 to 48 hours or it's too late. Doesn't matter how they work, they just do. Preliminary effective treatment for Coronavirus appears to be anti-malarial drugs as discovered by the South Koreans. Something about promoting the transport of zinc into cells inhibits viral replication. Hydrochloroquine is showing promise.

[Bronbron23]

If we were to treat Coronavirus like we do the flu and react to it like we do the flu, we wouldn't shut anything down... because we don't do that for the flu. Are you saying that states should not call for events with large gatherings to be cancelled? Are they too worried or too fearful in doing so?

When i say we im talking people in general. As far as shutting stuff down thats up to the government or whoever owns that buisness. Even if you save one life its worth it so i cant really judge them for that. To me its just weird that they would shut everything down for this but they dont for the flu which kills just as many people.

So its fine. Do whatever you feel is necessary to minimize the coronavirus. Just dont freak out over it and feed into this irrational fear unless your gonna do it for everything else thats just as likely to kill you.

[Bronbron23]

True but your also more likely to die from the flu than cancer.

And yes italy is getting hit hard because of there elderly population and compromised health care system but again more peolle have died from the flu in the last 3 months than cancer. Italy reported 68,000 desths from the flu from 2013-2017. The coronavirus is on pace to do less than that even with no vaccines and built up immune system.

Dont get me wrong its a dangerous virus especially for the elderly, all im saying is its no worse than the flu.

[Kungfro]

The death of this with people under 50 is about .07% dumb ass. It's mostly just killing old and feeble people that have nothing to offer society or anybody in general. If anything it's going to do us a favor and get rid of a lot of the dead weight.

That's pretty edgy, I see that whole egg thing really pissed you off. Chickens will always make more, don't worry.

I'm not trying to justify panic buying, that shit is dumb but giving the realities of group mentality was probably inevitable. I do think overwhelmed hospitals pose a risk to more then just the old and feeble. The term "flattening the curve" has been thrown around a lot lately and I think it makes sense given what we've seen in places like China and Italy. Having no NBA and cancelling large events really ****ing sucks, probably still the right decision. I also don't share your opinions on old people, they're alright in my books. In fact I plan on becoming old and feeble myself one day.

[FKAri]

True but your also more likely to die from the flu than cancer.

And yes italy is getting hit hard because of there elderly population and compromised health care system but again more peolle have died from the flu in the last 3 months than cancer. Italy reported 68,000 desths from the flu from 2013-2017. The coronavirus is on pace to do less than that even with no vaccines and built up immune system.

Dont get me wrong its a dangerous virus especially for the elderly, all im saying is its no worse than the flu.

I don't think you understand what on pace means. Like I said earlier you're not qualified to make a judgment either way. None of us are. We have to rely on authorities. The fact that we can't trust them is another problem.

[Norcaliblunt]

For what? AIDS? We know for a fact that a virus causes AIDS..

Okay present the peer reviewed study that conclusively proves a virus is the “sole” cause of aids.

[MaxFly]

For what? AIDS? We know for a fact that a virus causes AIDS..

Yeah, I'm not sure what the contention is. Is there a new dispute that has arisen regarding the human immunodeficiency virus and it's effects on the body?

[FKAri]

Okay present the peer reviewed study that conclusively proves a virus is the “sole” cause of aids.

Present the peer reviewed study that conclusively proves fire is the "sole" cause of smoke. For each one you find, I will provide you with 2 for the HIV AIDS link. Go.

[Norcaliblunt]

Present the peer reviewed study that conclusively proves fire is the "sole" cause of smoke. For each one you find, I will provide you with 2 for the HIV AIDS link. Go.

Lol good one. Even though fire is a great example of something not being inherently bad or good. An element that can cause different reactions under different conditions and circumstances. You know sorta like a virus. Lol.

But for real.......Contact any organization that claims viruses to be the cause of disease and ask them these questions. Is there an electron micrograph of the pure and fully characterized virus? What is the name of the primary specialist peer reviewed paper in which the virus is illustrated and its full genetic information described? What is the name of the primary publication that provides proof that a particular virus is the sole cause of a particular disease?

[tpols]

Lol good one. Even though fire is a great example of something not being inherently bad or good. An element that can cause different reactions under different conditions and circumstances. You know sorta like a virus. Lol.

But for real.......Contact any organization that claims viruses to be the cause of disease and ask them these questions. Is there an electron micrograph of the pure and fully characterized virus? What is the name of the primary specialist peer reviewed paper in which the virus is illustrated and its full genetic information described? What is the name of the primary publication that provides proof that a particular virus is the sole cause of a particular disease?


Are you trolling?

viruses arent technically alive, they "live" through trojan horse methodology. They hijack cells.

HIV and hep are both caused by a virus, why would you deny that? It takes time for symptoms to develop because they have to hijack enough cells.

[Bronbron23]

I know what on pace means and if you look at coronavirus objectively you'll see that so far its no worse than the flu. There 's Plenty of doctors also saying this by the way. This isnt my own medical opinion. I look at the numbers and listen to what doctors say and the numbers seem to back up the doctors who are saying its about as bad as the flu.

Time will tell but im pretty confident that we will eventually learn that theres alot more people infected than whats confirmed so far. Based on how contagious it is thats just common sense. Once that happens the death rate will drastically decrease and it will most likely be alot closer to the common flu.

[FKAri]

I know what on pace means and if you look at coronavirus objectively you'll see that so far its no worse than the flu. There 's Plenty of doctors also saying this by the way. This isnt my own medical opinion. I look at the numbers and listen to what doctors say and the numbers seem to back up the doctors who are saying its about as bad as the flu.

Time will tell but im pretty confident that we will eventually learn that theres alot more people infected than whats confirmed so far. Based on how contagious it is thats just common sense. Once that happens the death rate will drastically decrease and it will most likely be alot closer to the common flu.
Agreed that there are probably many infected and even if the flu were this contagious and novel it'd be a problem. The country couldn't even afford to have everyone have an unvaccinated strain of the flu simultaneously.

[Norcaliblunt]

Are you trolling?

viruses arent technically alive, they "live" through trojan horse methodology. They hijack cells.

HIV and hep are both caused by a virus, why would you deny that? It takes time for symptoms to develop because they have to hijack enough cells.


Contact any organization that claims virus’s to be the cause of disease and ask them these questions. Is there an electron micrograph of the pure and fully characterized virus? What is the name of the primary specialist peer reviewed paper in which the virus is illustrated and its full genetic information described? What is the name of the primary publication that provides proof that a particular virus is the sole cause of a particular disease?

[n00bie]

Why are people making such a huge deal that elderly people are most likely to die from this? Are you that self centered that you think old people dont matter? Fact is, comparing the flu to this is ridiculous. You're comparing a fatality rate if 0.1% to 3%. 6% in Italy. Let's not forget the toll this will have in our healthcare system. Others will die from causes unrelated to the coronavirus because our healthcare system will be so overwhelmed. This is a serious pandemic and the reason why it got so bad is because of attitudes like yourselves and Trump that played this off as just a "flu".

[zeerghit]

just wait than this s*it will touch u love ones..

[Cleverness]

This is a serious pandemic and the reason why it got so bad is because of attitudes like yourselves and Trump that played this off as just a "flu".

The smokers of Wuhan had attitudes like us???

You're right it's a serious pandemic. But it's also overrating and panic. Both are true.

[Bronbron23]

Why are people making such a huge deal that elderly people are most likely to die from this? Are you that self centered that you think old people dont matter? Fact is, comparing the flu to this is ridiculous. You're comparing a fatality rate if 0.1% to 3%. 6% in Italy. Let's not forget the toll this will have in our healthcare system. Others will die from causes unrelated to the coronavirus because our healthcare system will be so overwhelmed. This is a serious pandemic and the reason why it got so bad is because of attitudes like yourselves and Trump that played this off as just a "flu".
Again those numbers arnt even close to being accurate. That 3% and 6% are being caculated by dividing the number of deaths by the number of confirmed cases. This is the problem because confirmed cases arent anywhere close to the estimated numbers.

For example ohio has maybe a few hundred confirmed cases. Maybe not even that many but health officials estimate that theres more than 100000 people actually infected. Theres no deaths in ohio yet so do the math. Thst woukd drive the desth rate much lower. It would put it right around the flu.

I agree that its still a serious issue though, just no more than the flu is all.

[bladefd]

My commentary:
Take it seriously or it snowballs. It snowballs, people die. If you give a shit about anyone other than yourself, especially seniors limit your exposure to other people as best you can for the time being.

Reports out of China are saying the virus can maintain viability for hours after a sneeze.....That is problematic.

It can remain alive 24 hours when deposited on cardboard and 2 to 3 days on plastic or steel. These are reasons why it's so infectious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quDYb_x54DM

Decent summary of preventing and/or limiting exposure at 12:30 minutes.

Seems Italy outbreak was 11 days before our first outbreak so we still have a week to prepare if the numbers hold steady but I am not optimistic we are prepared for peak

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/03/10/13/25785300-8095485-image-a-1_1583848731910.jpg

[Bronbron23]

Agreed that there are probably many infected and even if the flu were this contagious and novel it'd be a problem. The country couldn't even afford to have everyone have an unvaccinated strain of the flu simultaneously.

Yeah i agree with that. The biggest issue right now is that the healthcare system isnt equipped to deal with another flu like virus.

[bladefd]

Okay present the peer reviewed study that conclusively proves a virus is the “sole” cause of aids.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2913538/

Scroll down to "Pathogenesis of HIV-1" that explains everything. What disease will it be next?

[diamenz]

2nd hand report from a crit care doc in Italy.

https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/1237142891077697538


From a well respected friend and intensivist/A&E consultant who is currently in northern Italy:
1/ ‘I feel the pressure to give you a quick personal update about what is happening in Italy, and also give some quick direct advice about what you should do.


2/ First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked in Italy, UK and Aus and don’t make the mistake to think that what is happening is happening in a 3rd world country.


3/ The current situation is difficult to imagine and numbers do not explain things at all. Our hospitals are overwhelmed by Covid-19, they are running 200% capacity

4/ We’ve stopped all routine, all ORs have been converted to ITUs and they are now diverting or not treating all other emergencies like trauma or strokes. There are hundreds of pts with severe resp failure and many of them do not have access to anything above a reservoir mask.

5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are starting to get sick and are emotionally overwhelmed.

6/ My friends call me in tears because they see people dying in front of them and they con only offer some oxygen. Ortho and pathologists are being given a leaflet and sent to see patients on NIV. PLEASE STOP, READ THIS AGAIN AND THINK.

7/ We have seen the same pattern in different areas a week apart, and there is no reason that in a few weeks it won’t be the same everywhere, this is the pattern:

8/ 1)A few positive cases, first mild measures, people are told to avoid ED but still hang out in groups, everyone says not to panick
2)Some moderate resp failures and a few severe ones that need tube, but regular access to ED is significantly reduced so everything looks great

9/ 3)Tons of patients with moderate resp failure, that overtime deteriorate to saturate ICUs first, then NIVs, then CPAP hoods, then even O2.
4)Staff gets sick so it gets difficult to cover for shifts, mortality spikes also from all other causes that can’t be treated properly.

10/ Everything about how to treat them is online but the only things that will make a difference are: do not be afraid of massively strict measures to keep people safe,

11/ if governments won’t do this at least keep your family safe, your loved ones with history of cancer or diabetes or any transplant will not be tubed if they need it even if they are young. By safe I mean YOU do not attend them and YOU decide who does and YOU teach them how to.

12/ Another typical attitude is read and listen to people saying things like this and think “that’s bad dude” and then go out for dinner because you think you’ll be safe.

13/ We have seen it, you won’t be if you don’t take it seriously. I really hope it won’t be as bad as here but prepare.

this is very disturbing. is this where the us is headed?

[MaxFly]

When i say we im talking people in general. As far as shutting stuff down thats up to the government or whoever owns that buisness. Even if you save one life its worth it so i cant really judge them for that. To me its just weird that they would shut everything down for this but they dont for the flu which kills just as many people.

So its fine. Do whatever you feel is necessary to minimize the coronavirus. Just dont freak out over it and feed into this irrational fear unless your gonna do it for everything else thats just as likely to kill you.

People need to stop saying that the flu "kills just as many people." Coronavirus is deadlier than the flu, and spreads more readily than the flu. As a result, we should take more precautions for it than we do for the regular flu. It's not fine for people to do whatever they feel is necessary. Rather, they should follow the proper protocols and best practices that the CDC, scientists and health experts have outlined for tackling this virus.

I don't think people should be overly fearful; people should be cautious. I also don't think people should be overly sanguine; people should be cautious. One of the precautions that works best is to limit social interaction in order to stymie the spread of this virus. Large groups and gatherings are a primary means of mass transmission and there is no vaccine for COVID-19 like there is for the flu. It is striking to me that people are still comparing this to our response to the flu, as if tens of millions of people don't get a flu vaccine every fall.

[Bronbron23]

Once again the coronavirus is not more deadly than the flu. We dont know this yet. You and others who say this are using confirmed cases with the amount of deaths which isnt anywhere close to being accurate. You would have to go by the estimates which is what the flu uses and we dont know enough to figure out what the estimates are yet for everywhere.

If you want an idea though just look at ohio whos one of the first places to have an estimate. They have maybe a couple hundred confirmed cases but they estimate that over 100,000 people have it. This would put the coronavirus death rate down to the .01-.03 area apposed to the 3% that some irresponsible sources are using.

[diamenz]

Alarming Visualization Of The Spread COVID19 Coronavirus Compared To Ebola, Swine Flu, & SARS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buezK7Jocvc)

[Bronbron23]

Alarming Visualization Of The Spread COVID19 Coronavirus Compared To Ebola, Swine Flu, & SARS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buezK7Jocvc)

Yes thats alarming but no more than the flu which in the usa alone infects 9-40 million people a year. Based on that video in 2.5 months 175000 people have been infected worldwide but the estimates are much higher than that and its most likely on pace with infecting the same amount of people as the flu give or take some.

[diamenz]

Yes thats alarming but no more than the flu which in the usa alone infects 9-40 million people a year. Based on that video in 2.5 months 175000 people have been infected worldwide but the estimates are much higher than that and its most likely on pace with infecting the same amount of people as the flu give or take some.

does a flu patient have as high of a chance of developing pneumonia as a corona patient does? i think that's why a lot of people are dying and getting extremely sick - it's the pneumonia. i don't know f*** all about it but that's what i've picked up over the course of the last few days.

[highwhey]

this shit is scaring me bc i have had respiratory illnesses before. mostly when i was a kid, but i had really bad pneumonia that landed me 2 weeks in the hospital.

[diamenz]

youngstas in chicago partying it up on the strip for patty's day. (https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/chicago-bars-packed-with-st-patricks-revelers-in-spite-of-coronavirus) flying in from out of town, sharing drinks, hanging out in large groups. gg.

https://i.imgur.com/hL9U91C_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/3L0EAnQ_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[diamenz]

this shit is scaring me bc i have had respiratory illnesses before. mostly when i was a kid, but i had really bad pneumonia that landed me 2 weeks in the hospital.

that was a long time ago, i'm sure you're fine. worry about your elders.

[HylianNightmare]

this is very disturbing. is this where the us is headed?

Yes

[bladefd]

youngstas in chicago partying it up on the strip for patty's day. (https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/chicago-bars-packed-with-st-patricks-revelers-in-spite-of-coronavirus) flying in from out of town, sharing drinks, hanging out in large groups. gg.

https://i.imgur.com/hL9U91C_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/3L0EAnQ_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Goddamn idiots... Pricks can't get their heads out of their asses.. Numbers are going to skyrocket over the next 2 weeks and we will be looking back outraged, mark my damn words..

Italy initially started slow but their entire healthcare system got swamped within 2 weeks. We are about 11 days behind Italy so give it another week before we begin to get swamped.

I hope we are able to shut down everything like China had to at their peak. They are just now starting to get back under control after 6 weeks of hell

[bladefd]

https://www.newsweek.com/newt-gingrich-i-am-italy-amid-coronavirus-crisis-america-must-act-now-act-big-opinion-1492270

That's from NEWT GINGRICH of all people. You know he would defend Trump but even HE is saying what that guy on Twitter was saying.. This is not a hoax or a small matter as morons here have been stating.. "Oh its nothing" "Nothing but a cold"..

[Nanners]

People need to stop saying that the flu "kills just as many people." Coronavirus is deadlier than the flu, and spreads more readily than the flu. As a result, we should take more precautions for it than we do for the regular flu.

Absolute nonsense. If Corona is deadlier than flu, and/or spreads more readily than flu, then why arent more people dying?

Last year the flu infected somewhere between ~20m-80m americans and ~60,000 died from it. During the height of a bad flu season we can see ~400-500 flu deaths per day in this country... so after 1.5 months of corona the entirety of deaths are 1/10th of a single day during bad flu.

The first case of covid-19 was detected in the US 1.5 months ago, and the most recent data I can find says we are currently at 2759 confirmed cases and 59 deaths. No doubt some people will respond to this by saying "yeah but theres tons of unconfirmed cases", which is true... we have a limited ability to test and so we basically only test people who are very sick or at increased risk due to other health problems. If we calculated the death rate of flu the same way we are doing with corona, taking the number of people who are super sick or immunocompromised that test positive for flu and dividing that by the number who eventually die, the death rate of flu would look super scary... but we dont calculate it that way, because its obviously not accurate to measure the death rate of a highly contagious virus by only testing a small group of people who are known to have the virus or at special risk.

Compare the situation in the US with China. The Wuhan metro area has a population of 19 million... thats the same as NYC, the largest city in america. Covid was first detected in Wuhan on december 31 2019, and was active in the population several weeks or months prior to detection. So a virus breaks out in an enormous Chinese city, and in the 4+ months it has been active ~3000 people total have died in China (a country with 1,380,000,000 people where ~200,000+ die from flu every year). In other terms, after 4 or more months of infection only 1 out of every 500,000 chinese people have died from corona... ffs the chance of getting hit by lightning is 1 in 700,000.

The reality is that the corona virus family is large, new strains are detected every year and several strains infect humanity at any moment (much like the influenza virus family). There are lots of viruses that cause the symptoms that we refer to as the common cold, and some strain of the corona virus is responsible about 25% of the time. While its possible that a more deadly strain of corona could emerge at some point (like h1n1 did with influenza), the numbers for covid simply dont add up to a virus that is deadly... they add up the same as most coronas - another fairly mild version of the common cold.

[coin24]

Bird flu had a 60% fatality rate and infected a lot more people.. it didn't have the 1.2 billion media mentions that corona did though :lol

[Axe]

I seriously think this should be the last straw for this year..

[Bronbron23]

I dont know about pneumonia specifically but yes people have just as much of a chance of dying from the flu as they do the coronavirus. Just look at flu deaths per year dude.

Again dont get me wrong they're both serious infections im not trying to minimize either one snd im all for taking precautions( within reason) to limit exposure to both. I just dont get all the worry and fear towards the coronavirus when nobody even bats an eye at the flu even though its just as deadly.

[BurningHammer]

I dont know about pneumonia specifically but yes people have just as much of a chance of dying from the flu as they do the coronavirus. Just look at flu deaths per year dude.

Again dont get me wrong they're both serious infections im not trying to minimize either one snd im all for taking precautions( within reason) to limit exposure to both. I just dont get all the worry and fear towards the coronavirus when nobody even bats an eye at the flu even though its just as deadly.
Because it is a new strain of coronavirus.

"New" is the key word. "New". There is no vaccine for it. People are not immune to it. Experts haven't even really completely known how the virus works yet.

[Long Duck Dong]

Bird flu had a 60% fatality rate and infected a lot more people.. it didn't have the 1.2 billion media mentions that corona did though :lol

The bird flu has infected less than 900 people since it was discovered. COVID-19 is already in the 100s of thousands. Human to human transmission of of the deadliest bird flu is extremely rare, most people who get it are people who butcher poultry

[MaxFly]

Absolute nonsense. If Corona is deadlier than flu, and/or spreads more readily than flu, then why arent more people dying?


This is the sort of inane reasoning that leads people like Rudy Gobert to dismiss clear calls and delineated protocols for caution. This novel strain of coronavirus is clearly worse than the flu and spreads more readily than the flu, if only for the fact that tens of millions of people receive a vaccine for the flu every year. Lol @ this notion that this is another "fairly mild version of the common cold." While most healthy individuals will fare just fine after contracting COVID-19, many are experiencing fevers and fatigue. The healthcare system in Italy has been overwhelmed. The Chinese built ad hoc hospitals to respond to the outbreak. Are we to believe that the Chinese over reacted to the common cold? The Italian healthcare system has been overwhelmed by the common cold? Right...

This must be a conspiracy.

[bigkingsfan]

The Italian healthcare system has been overwhelmed by the common cold? Right...

This must be a conspiracy.

"In January this year, Italy reported that since flu season started in October 2019, over 2 million cases of flu were recorded, resulting in 240 deaths."

They just had 368 deaths in the last 24 hours to coronavirus.

[n00bie]

"In January this year, Italy reported that since flu season started in October 2019, over 2 million cases of flu were recorded, resulting in 240 deaths."

They just had 368 deaths in the last 24 hours to coronavirus.

Exactly. I don't understand why there are so many delusional liberals out there who think this is just a weak as the flu.

[hold this L]

"In January this year, Italy reported that since flu season started in October 2019, over 2 million cases of flu were recorded, resulting in 240 deaths."

They just had 368 deaths in the last 24 hours to coronavirus.
I heard 250 deaths last 24 hours, or was that from the day before?

[CelticBaller]

"In January this year, Italy reported that since flu season started in October 2019, over 2 million cases of flu were recorded, resulting in 240 deaths."

They just had 368 deaths in the last 24 hours to coronavirus.

yay universal heathcare!

right? right?

[Cleverness]

Absolute nonsense. If Corona is deadlier than flu, and/or spreads more readily than flu, then why arent more people dying?

Last year the flu infected somewhere between ~20m-80m americans and ~60,000 died from it. During the height of a bad flu season we can see ~400-500 flu deaths per day in this country... so after 1.5 months of corona the entirety of deaths are 1/10th of a single day during bad flu.

Indeed. Shutting down all events and gatherings during flu season would help prevent flu deaths.

[bigkingsfan]

I heard 250 deaths last 24 hours, or was that from the day before?
368 is the latest.

[bladefd]

Compare the situation in the US with China. The Wuhan metro area has a population of 19 million... thats the same as NYC, the largest city in america. Covid was first detected in Wuhan on december 31 2019, and was active in the population several weeks or months prior to detection. So a virus breaks out in an enormous Chinese city, and in the 4+ months it has been active ~3000 people total have died in China (a country with 1,380,000,000 people where ~200,000+ die from flu every year). In other terms, after 4 or more months of infection only 1 out of every 500,000 chinese people have died from corona... ffs the chance of getting hit by lightning is 1 in 700,000.

The reality is that the corona virus family is large, new strains are detected every year and several strains infect humanity at any moment (much like the influenza virus family). There are lots of viruses that cause the symptoms that we refer to as the common cold, and some strain of the corona virus is responsible about 25% of the time. While its possible that a more deadly strain of corona could emerge at some point (like h1n1 did with influenza), the numbers for covid simply dont add up to a virus that is deadly... they add up the same as most coronas - another fairly mild version of the common cold.

The Chinese have been vastly unreporting numbers and blatantly lying since early January when news began to leak about the new coronavirus..

[Overdrive]

yay universal heathcare!

right? right?

Universal healthcare can't cure a desease without an existing antitode, but not paying thousands of dollars for testing might help containing it.

[Hawker]

Universal healthcare can't cure a desease without an existing antitode, but not paying thousands of dollars for testing might help containing it.

Who discovers the antidote/vaccines and produces the testing kits? Private companies are involved with this are they not?

[bladefd]

Who discovers the antidote/vaccines and produces the testing kits? Private companies are involved with this are they not?

Both private sector of big pharma and public sectors of the government (CDC) are involved in the development process. Insurance companies not so much

[Bronbron23]

"In January this year, Italy reported that since flu season started in October 2019, over 2 million cases of flu were recorded, resulting in 240 deaths."

They just had 368 deaths in the last 24 hours to coronavirus.

Italy has a higher rate of deaths than anywhere for the coronavirus. I could give you numbers that show the exact opposite in favor for the flu being worse for amost every other part of the world.

And the last few months italy has seen fewer deaths from the flu than ever before. From 2013 to 2017 there was 68,000 people who died from the flu in italy. Thats an average of 17,000 people a year. If you actually read that whole study you would of also read that the reason for the lower flu deaths this year is that the coronavirus and the flu target the same people. The coronavirus is basically just killing the old and sick people that the flu would of killed anyway.

[Hawker]

Both private sector of big pharma and public sectors of the government (CDC) are involved in the development process. Insurance companies not so much

Without incentive, the private companies don't produce the quality and quantity of drugs. Hence where the for-profit motive comes into play.

[Bronbron23]

The fact that it dosnt kill more people than the flu even though we havnt developed an immunity to it and theres no vaccine for it isnt a good argument to why its worse.

[coin24]

Italy has a higher rate of deaths than anywhere for the coronavirus. I could give you numbers that show the exact opposite in favor for the flu being worse for amost every other part of the world.

And the last few months italy has seen fewer deaths from the flu than ever before. From 2013 to 2017 there was 68,000 people who died from the flu in italy. Thats an average of 17,000 people a year. If you actually read that whole study you would of also read that the reason for the lower flu deaths this year is that the coronavirus and the flu target the same people. The coronavirus is basically just killing the old and sick people that the flu would of killed anyway.

There is no getting through to people.. the media has brainwashed them, they're too busy fighting each other over a roll of toilet paper..

The medical system is being overrun with idiots everywhere coming in with common colds wasting everyone's time because they just won't listen. If the media didn't hype this up and instil fear on a 24/7 loop this wouldn't be the case..

[Bronbron23]

There is no getting through to people.. the media has brainwashed them, they're too busy fighting each other over a roll of toilet paper..

The medical system is being overrun with idiots everywhere coming in with common colds wasting everyone's time because they just won't listen. If the media didn't hype this up and instil fear on a 24/7 loop this wouldn't be the case..
Yeah the strain on the medical system is a huge part of why so many people are dying. If your under 60 with no major previous health issues they shouldnt even be looked at.

[bigkingsfan]

Italy has a higher rate of deaths than anywhere for the coronavirus. I could give you numbers that show the exact opposite in favor for the flu being worse for amost every other part of the world.

And the last few months italy has seen fewer deaths from the flu than ever before. From 2013 to 2017 there was 68,000 people who died from the flu in italy. Thats an average of 17,000 people a year. If you actually read that whole study you would of also read that the reason for the lower flu deaths this year is that the coronavirus and the flu target the same people. The coronavirus is basically just killing the old and sick people that the flu would of killed anyway.

Exponential growth, people are taking steps so their health system doesn't end up like Italy. This is just the beginning. CDC expects millions of death in the US, if we simply live our life like the flu. We're heading toward a national shutdown.

[Bronbron23]

Exponential growth, people are taking steps so their health system doesn't end up like Italy. This is just the beginning. CDC expects millions of death in the US, if we simply live our life like the flu. We're heading toward a national shutdown.

No we're not. The usa dosnt even have 100 deaths within a couple months and they've done a pretty bad job at getting ahead of the coronavirus. Flu season will be over in another month or so and the flu along with the coronavirus will start to reduce significantly. Within the following months there should hopefully be some kind of vaccine to combat the coronavirus.

Using italy as the measure for the effects of the coronavirus is irresponsible. The coronavirus mostly effects older people and italy has one of the highest senior populations in the world. Plus there healthcare system wasnt equipped to deal with the coronavirus. As disturbing as italy is theres places with high cases of the coronavirus that hasnt had any deaths. Ohio for instance estimates more than 100,000 cases and there hasn't been any deaths yet.

[CelticBaller]

Universal healthcare can't cure a desease without an existing antitode, but not paying thousands of dollars for testing might help containing it.

it sure is helping them...

[bigkingsfan]

No we're not. The usa dosnt even have 100 deaths within a couple months and they've done a pretty bad job at getting ahead of the coronavirus. Flu season will be over in another month or so and the flu along with the coronavirus will start to reduce significantly. Within the following months there should hopefully be some kind of vaccine to combat the coronavirus.

Using italy as the measure for the effects of the coronavirus is irresponsible. The coronavirus mostly effects older people and italy has one of the highest senior populations in the world. Plus there healthcare system wasnt equipped to deal with the coronavirus. As disturbing as italy is theres places with high cases of the coronavirus that hasnt had any deaths. Ohio for instance estimates more than 100,000 cases and there hasn't been any deaths yet.

That's not how vaccine works, it's going to be at least 1 year until you can test, mass produce, and rollout, 18 months if we're realistic.

Italy has one of the better healthcare in the world, higher than the US.

[Bronbron23]

Saying their health care system wasnt equipped to handling the coronavirus wasnt a reflection of their competence. Its Just that they have a large population of old people so they're overwhelmed at the moment. Plus the younger healthy people are coming in for mild symptoms also because of all the fear around it all so their absolutely screwed.

And thats exactly how some some vaccines work. Especially when that vaccine is for something thats just mutated a little thats been around for a long time already.

[bigkingsfan]

Saying their health care system wasnt equipped to handling the coronavirus wasnt a reflection of their competence. Its Just that they have a large population of old people so they're overwhelmed at the moment. Plus the younger healthy people are coming in for mild symptoms also because of all the fear around it all so their absolutely screwed.

And thats exactly how some some vaccines work. Especially when that vaccine is for something thats just mutated a little thats been around for a long time already.

"WASHINGTON -- The first participant in a clinical trial for a vaccine to protect against the new coronavirus will receive an experimental dose on Monday, according to a government official.

Public health officials say it will take a year to 18 months to fully validate any potential vaccine."

But but few months....

[Bronbron23]

"WASHINGTON -- The first participant in a clinical trial for a vaccine to protect against the new coronavirus will receive an experimental dose on Monday, according to a government official.

Public health officials say it will take a year to 18 months to fully validate any potential vaccine."

But but few months....

Yeah it could definitely take 18 months or even more. It could also take a few months. Its not just the Americans working on a vaccine. All i said was hopefully dude.

Either wsy its irrelevant to the topic at hand. Even without a c
Vaccine its looking like like the coronavirus wont be any worse than the flu.

[diamenz]

Exponential growth, people are taking steps so their health system doesn't end up like Italy. This is just the beginning. CDC expects millions of death in the US, if we simply live our life like the flu. We're heading toward a national shutdown.

this right here. the primary goal right now is to flatten the curve in order to avoid an overwhelmed hc system. it will literally make the difference in reducing the death rate from 5% to possibly 1%.

[diamenz]

That's not how vaccine works, it's going to be at least 1 year until you can test, mass produce, and rollout, 18 months if we're realistic.

Italy has one of the better healthcare in the world, higher than the US.

and that would be a record. history dictates that vaccines take at least five years to properly roll out.

[bigkingsfan]

Yeah it could definitely take 18 months or even more. It could also take a few months. Its not just the Americans working on a vaccine. All i said was hopefully dude.

Either wsy its irrelevant to the topic at hand. Even without a c
Vaccine its looking like like the coronavirus wont be any worse than the flu.

There is a 0% chance there will be a vaccine deem safe for the general public in three months. Human testing takes time, how hard is it to accept it.

[diamenz]

When you’re done reading the article, this is what you’ll take away:
The coronavirus is coming to you.
It’s coming at an exponential speed: gradually, and then suddenly.
It’s a matter of days. Maybe a week or two.
When it does, your healthcare system will be overwhelmed.
Your fellow citizens will be treated in the hallways.
Exhausted healthcare workers will break down. Some will die.
They will have to decide which patient gets the oxygen and which one dies.
The only way to prevent this is social distancing today. Not tomorrow. Today.
That means keeping as many people home as possible, starting now.

https://miro.medium.com/max/5229/1*16H3bmMfu149AdgU27mI-w.png

what's so hard to understand?


source: https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

[MaxFly]

"In January this year, Italy reported that since flu season started in October 2019, over 2 million cases of flu were recorded, resulting in 240 deaths."

They just had 368 deaths in the last 24 hours to coronavirus.


Flu and common cold numbers...

/s

[highwhey]

you're batshit crazy if you're still comparing this to the flu.

or just trying to be edgy.

[Hawker]

you're batshit crazy if you're still comparing this to the flu.

or just trying to be edgy.

I agree.

It's one thing to not trust political pundits. Opinion writers for NYT and Washington Post. So called intelligence and foreign policy "experts" as they will all have bias and agendas.

I don't see that as much in medical issues like this - they have loved ones and they themselves can be physically harmed as well. They are accountable for their errors. Political pundits, journalists, intelligence and foreign policy "experts" are not. People don't go into the medical field for malicious reasons. It's good money for sure but they do it from the belief they will legitimately help people.

I think it's pretty easy to see the difference between flu and COVID-19. We have a built in natural immunity to the fly even before we get the flu vaccine. Not the same with this.

[MaxFly]

Yeah the strain on the medical system is a huge part of why so many people are dying. If your under 60 with no major previous health issues they shouldnt even be looked at.

Why is there any strain on any medical system if this is no worse than the flu? Health care systems around the world aren't overtaxed as a result of the flu.

[ItsMillerTime]

you're batshit crazy if you're still comparing this to the flu.

or just trying to be edgy.

QFT.

I mean wtf Nanners.

[FKAri]

Absolute nonsense. If Corona is deadlier than flu, and/or spreads more readily than flu, then why arent more people dying?

Last year the flu infected somewhere between ~20m-80m americans and ~60,000 died from it. During the height of a bad flu season we can see ~400-500 flu deaths per day in this country... so after 1.5 months of corona the entirety of deaths are 1/10th of a single day during bad flu.

The first case of covid-19 was detected in the US 1.5 months ago, and the most recent data I can find says we are currently at 2759 confirmed cases and 59 deaths. No doubt some people will respond to this by saying "yeah but theres tons of unconfirmed cases", which is true... we have a limited ability to test and so we basically only test people who are very sick or at increased risk due to other health problems. If we calculated the death rate of flu the same way we are doing with corona, taking the number of people who are super sick or immunocompromised that test positive for flu and dividing that by the number who eventually die, the death rate of flu would look super scary... but we dont calculate it that way, because its obviously not accurate to measure the death rate of a highly contagious virus by only testing a small group of people who are known to have the virus or at special risk.

Compare the situation in the US with China. The Wuhan metro area has a population of 19 million... thats the same as NYC, the largest city in america. Covid was first detected in Wuhan on december 31 2019, and was active in the population several weeks or months prior to detection. So a virus breaks out in an enormous Chinese city, and in the 4+ months it has been active ~3000 people total have died in China (a country with 1,380,000,000 people where ~200,000+ die from flu every year). In other terms, after 4 or more months of infection only 1 out of every 500,000 chinese people have died from corona... ffs the chance of getting hit by lightning is 1 in 700,000.

The reality is that the corona virus family is large, new strains are detected every year and several strains infect humanity at any moment (much like the influenza virus family). There are lots of viruses that cause the symptoms that we refer to as the common cold, and some strain of the corona virus is responsible about 25% of the time. While its possible that a more deadly strain of corona could emerge at some point (like h1n1 did with influenza), the numbers for covid simply dont add up to a virus that is deadly... they add up the same as most coronas - another fairly mild version of the common cold.

586 seasonal flu deaths estimated worldwide today
368 coronavirus deaths in Italy on Saturday

https://www.worldometers.info/
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=nws&ei=vY9vXtTOHcG1gge02b2ICA&q=italy+368+deaths&oq=italy+368+deaths

[Bronbron23]

What do u mean? The flu is pretty serious. It already had a pretty big impact on our health care system. Millions and millions of people are infected every year. So now you basically double that impact and you have a shit show.

[Bronbron23]

Thats fine but again its irrelevant. Even with no vaccine the flu is still as bad or worse.

[Bronbron23]

Usa
Coronavirus: 3700 cases 70 deaths.
Flu: 35 million cases 20,000 deaths

You'll point to the higher death rate but the estimated numbers are much higher than actually confirmed cases. Ohio alone estimates that there's more than 100000 people with the coronavirus. A low estimate for the usa would be 1,000,000 cases. Theres only 70 deaths so far so that would drop the death rate considerably.

[Bronbron23]

How? Go and ask what the symptoms of the coronavirus are and guess what they'll tell you? They'll say flu like symptoms.

How about some facts. This flu season in the usa there has been 3700 cases of the coronavirus and 70 deaths. The flu on the other hand has infected 35,000,000 people and killed 20,000. The coronavirus cases are well below the actual infected number so the death rate is also much lower than most are reporting.

I get that having no vaccine is scary but there is absolutely no reason to worry more abou the coronavirus than you would the flu.

Your batshit crazy if you think this is worse

[MaxFly]

QFT.

I mean wtf Nanners.

Not just the flu. The common cold. :facepalm

[ZenMaster]

How? Go and ask what the symptoms of the coronavirus are and guess what they'll tell you? They'll say flu like symptoms.

How about some facts. This flu season in the usa there has been 3700 cases of the coronavirus and 70 deaths. The flu on the other hand has infected 35,000,000 people and killed 20,000. The coronavirus cases are well below the actual infected number so the death rate is also much lower than most are reporting.

I get that having no vaccine is scary but there is absolutely no reason to worry more abou the coronavirus than you would the flu.

Your batshit crazy if you think this is worse

Problem is you're only looking at reported deaths, what you need to consider is how the whole system would be stressed without measures being taken beforehand.


The majority of people with Covid-19 can be managed at home. But among 44,000 cases in China, about 15% required hospitalization and 5% ended up in critical care. In Italy, the statistics so far are even more dismal: More than half of infected individuals require hospitalization and about 10% need treatment in the ICU.

For this exercise, I’m conservatively assuming that only 10% of cases warrant hospitalization, in part because the U.S. population is younger than Italy’s, and has lower rates of smoking — which may compromise lung health and contribute to poorer prognosis — than both Italy and China. Yet the U.S. also has high rates of chronic conditions like cardiovascular disease and diabetes, which are also associated with the severity of Covid-19.

At a 10% hospitalization rate, all hospital beds in the U.S. will be filled by about May 10. And with many patients requiring weeks of care, turnover will slow to a crawl as beds fill with Covid-19 patients.

If I’m wrong by a factor of two regarding the fraction of severe cases, that only changes the timeline of bed saturation by six days (one doubling time) in either direction. If 20% of cases require hospitalization, we run out of beds by about May 4. If only 5% of cases require it, we can make it until about May 16, and a 2.5% rate gets us to May 22.

But this presumes there is no uptick in demand for beds from non-Covid-19 causes, a dubious presumption. As the health care system becomes increasingly burdened and prescription medication shortages kick in, people with chronic conditions that are normally well-managed may find themselves slipping into states of medical distress requiring hospitalization and even intensive care. For the sake of this exercise, though, let’s assume that all other causes of hospitalization remain constant.



https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/10/simple-math-alarming-answers-covid-19/

[Kungfro]

You gotta stop quoting that one health official in Ohio's estimate as fact, and extrapolating off of that. This is the full quote.


“I know this is hard because this virus is among us, but we can’t see it yet,” Acton said. “Just the fact of community spread says that ... at the very least 1% of our population is carrying this virus in Ohio today. We have 11.7 million people ... so the math is over 100,000. So that just gives you a sense of how the virus spreads and is spreading quickly.”

She later went on to say this

"I am not saying there are absolutely for certain 100,000 people, I'm saying I'm guesstimating," the director, Dr. Amy Acton, said at a news conference.

You've gone from maybe 1% of people in Ohio have Covid-19, and with a population of 11 million that means around 100k people are infected, therefore there are at least one million cases in the US. Do you honestly not see any flaws in that argument?

[Bronbron23]

You gotta stop quoting that one health official in Ohio's estimate as fact, and extrapolating off of that. This is the full quote.



She later went on to say this


You've gone from maybe 1% of people in Ohio have Covid-19, and with a population of 11 million that means around 100k people are infected, therefore there are at least one million cases in the US. Do you honestly not see any flaws in that argument?
I wasnt trying to do the math and that health official could be off some. Point is they're is definitely way more people infected than are confirmed. If i had to guess id say the mumbers are probably in between 5-10 million and will probably grow to flu like numbers. The 1 million was just a low number best scenario estimate.

[highwhey]

Just stop responding to that idiot, he's obviously trying to be edgy or just straight up trolling you guys. You've thrown all the legitimate sources at him and he's just ignoring it bc he's seeking attention, i.e. the same textbook troll ISH faces just in a different flavor.

[MaxFly]

What do u mean? The flu is pretty serious. It already had a pretty big impact on our health care system. Millions and millions of people are infected every year. So now you basically double that impact and you have a shit show.

The seasonal flu does not overwhelm the health care system of almost any country in the world, in spite of the fact that 10s of millions of people contract it every year, largely because 10s of millions of people also get the vaccine in the fall every year, and because we have a long-standing, prepared, well established industry focused on identifying and treating symptoms of the seasonal flu. Doctors, nurses and other health care professionals are well prepared for flu season in advance and healthcare facilities take special care to be fully stocked with supplies and medications, as well as with surplus in the event of an exceedingly bad flu season. It is important to understand that the seasonal flu has a flatter infection rate curve, and you don't see the sort of steep curve that we are seeing with COVID-19. That steep curve - that sudden and unexpected influx of patients - is what causes health care systems to become overwhelmed so quickly, and it is what we are seeing in Italy... and why governments are so keen on flattening that curve by banning large or even moderately large gatherings.

You've questioned why businesses and schools are being shut down. Hospitals, clinics and health care workers would not be able to handle the sudden influx of admissions if measures were not taken to reduce transmission of COVID-19 and reduce the number of concurrent cases.

[Bronbron23]

Ive never questioned why anything is closing. People, business and governments should do whatever they feel they need to to minimize the effects. Even if it saves 1 life its still worth it. All ive been saying is that the fear is irrational because the coronavirus is no more deadly than the flu is. So if you dont worry about the flu why are you worrying about the coronavirus? Why arnt you worried about jumping in the car with your friends in family? Theres other things out there that are just as likely to kill you that people dont worry a second about so why worry about the coronavirus?

[Norcaliblunt]

You've questioned why businesses and schools are being shut down. Hospitals, clinics and health care workers would not be able to handle the sudden influx of admissions if measures were not taken to reduce transmission of COVID-19 and reduce the number of concurrent cases.

And this is the crazy part. If WW3 broke out we would have the war machine up in running at the drop of a dime. Mobilizing troops/manpower all around the world like it’s nothing. But right now literally in the middle of a pandemic we can’t utilize the same kind of organization? You know just build some more hospitals and start treating people. Lol. It makes me think maybe America is a paper tiger.

[Bronbron23]

How am i trying to be edgy? Ive been giving yall credible sources also which yall chooe to ignor too. The fact is that the flu and the coronavirus have similar symptoms and a similar death rate. The numbers dont lie. You guys are all just chosing to ignore them. Ive never said that the coronavirus isnt serious. All ive said is its no worse than the the flu.

[ZenMaster]

Ive never questioned why anything is closing. People, business and governments should do whatever they feel they need to to minimize the effects. Even if it saves 1 life its still worth it. All ive been saying is that the fear is irrational because the coronavirus is no more deadly than the flu is. So if you dont worry about the flu why are you worrying about the coronavirus? Why arnt you worried about jumping in the car with your friends in family? Theres other things out there that are just as likely to kill you that people dont worry a second about so why worry about the coronavirus?

Look at the headline of your thread..

[superduper]

People really still comparing covid19 to the flu :roll:

[Kungfro]

Ive never questioned why anything is closing. People, business and governments should do whatever they feel they need to to minimize the effects. Even if it saves 1 life its still worth it. All ive been saying is that the fear is irrational because the coronavirus is no more deadly than the flu is. So if you dont worry about the flu why are you worrying about the coronavirus? Why arnt you worried about jumping in the car with your friends in family? Theres other things out there that are just as likely to kill you that people dont worry a second about so why worry about the coronavirus?


I'm not worried about myself, I'm 30 and in decent shape, I'm sure I'll be fine. I do worry about unknowingly spreading it to the older and more vulnerable people in my life, I worry about the health care workers, I worry about the economy and the people who's financial situation is in jeopardy. There's plenty of reasons to be concerned about this beyond your own well being. I'm finding your whole stance on this to be very confusing.

[diamenz]

How am i trying to be edgy? Ive been giving yall credible sources also which yall chooe to ignor too. The fact is that the flu and the coronavirus have similar symptoms and a similar death rate. The numbers dont lie. You guys are all just chosing to ignore them. Ive never said that the coronavirus isnt serious. All ive said is its no worse than the the flu.

the threat right now isn't necessarily the virus itself - it's the overwhelming of the hc system in any given country that it's going to cause. beside that, we have no vaccine and know jack s*** about it.

[Bronbron23]

I'm not worried about myself, I'm 30 and in decent shape, I'm sure I'll be fine. I do worry about unknowingly spreading it to the older and more vulnerable people in my life, I worry about the health care workers, I worry about the economy and the people who's financial situation is in jeopardy. There's plenty of reasons to be concerned about this beyond your own well being. I'm finding your whole stance on this to be very confusing. did you worry about spreading the flu to older people because that kills just as many?

And your worry for the the economy and peoples financial situation is fair. Initially when i made the statement not much was shut down. My comment was more about the initial health effects of the coronavirus conpared to the flu. Not the ramifications that the virus could have on the economy and the healthcare system.

[Bronbron23]

Thats fair but one could argue that the stress on the health care system has alot to do with the fear and panic the media has caused. Thousands of people who are younger and healthy who have mild symptoms are tying up the system when they should just be staying home and letting the virus run its course.

[MaxFly]

Ive never questioned why anything is closing. People, business and governments should do whatever they feel they need to to minimize the effects. Even if it saves 1 life its still worth it. All ive been saying is that the fear is irrational because the coronavirus is no more deadly than the flu is.

You are saying two different things here. You're saying that the fear is irrational and that people should just do what they would normally do for the seasonal flu. At the same time, you're saying that businesses and government should do whatever they feel they need to do to minimize the effects. If governments and businesses do indeed carry out the protocols they feel are necessary to minimize the spread - shutting down large gatherings for instance - is that not equivalent to irrational fear according to your assessment since that is not what they would normally do for the seasonal flu?

You said:


People should use the same precaution as they do with the flu. Wash your hands, use hand sanitizer ect. Dont shut down the world though.

Universities don't shut down, require students to move out and move students to online classes for the regular flu. Is that part of "shutting down the world" due to "irrational fear?"


So if you dont worry about the flu why are you worrying about the coronavirus? Why arnt you worried about jumping in the car with your friends in family? Theres other things out there that are just as likely to kill you that people dont worry a second about so why worry about the coronavirus?


I'm not in a panic regarding the COVID-19, but I fully acknowledge that serious measures - many that eclipse what we would normally do for the seasonal flu - will have to be taken to stem the spread and to make sure our health care facilities aren't overrun but are able to effectively treat patients (those with COVID-19 and those with other ailments) without the need to triage. Most people I know, especially those who are older or have underlying health issues, have received a flu vaccine. None of them have received a COVID-19 vaccine. Caution does not equate to panic.

Here's the problem: every time you say something like "Theres other things out there that are just as likely to kill you that people dont worry a second about so why worry about the coronavirus?" you indicate that you don't believe coronavirus is something governments and businesses should be particularly concerned or worried about since they don't react to the seasonal flu in the same manner. As businesses close or limit their hours of operation, we will see increasingly serious economic repercussions for said businesses and employees. Do you seriously not understand why those people are worried? Are those who will lose out on pay guilty of irrational fear?

[Hawker]

You are saying two different things here. You're saying that the fear is irrational and that people should just do what they would normally do for the seasonal flu. At the same time, you're saying that businesses and government should do whatever they feel they need to do to minimize the effects. If governments and businesses do indeed carry out the protocols they feel are necessary to minimize the spread - shutting down large gatherings for instance - is that not equivalent to irrational fear according to your assessment since that is not what they would normally do for the seasonal flu?

You said:



Universities don't shut down, require students to move out and move students to online classes for the regular flu. Is that part of "shutting down the world" due to "irrational fear?"



I'm not in a panic regarding the COVID-19, but I fully acknowledge that serious measures - many that eclipse what we would normally do for the seasonal flu - will have to be taken to stem the spread and to make sure our health care facilities aren't overrun but are able to effectively treat patients (those with COVID-19 and those with other ailments) without the need to triage. Most people I know, especially those who are older or have underlying health issues, have received a flu vaccine. None of them have received a COVID-19 vaccine. Caution does not equate to panic.

Here's the problem: every time you say something like "Theres other things out there that are just as likely to kill you that people dont worry a second about so why worry about the coronavirus?" you indicate that you don't believe coronavirus is something governments and businesses should be particularly concerned or worried about since they don't react to the seasonal flu in the same manner. As businesses close or limit their hours of operation, we will see increasingly serious economic repercussions for said businesses and employees. Do you seriously not understand why those people are worried? Are those who will lose out on pay guilty of irrational fear?

I am on the exact same wavelength as you. People do not understand the economic fall out of all this.

Small business, restaurants and cafes that rely on small margins will have a tough time. They can't just pay out their employees out of good will because society says they have to. This will hurt the servers, host, bus boy. Maybe not so much the food providers as you can still order in. This would be a legitimate time to at least increase prices on take out meals to cover the cost of lost revenue otherwise.

We need people to take it serious and some responsibility and not also just rely on what the government says. Someone travelled from Australia to New Zealand who went and got tested for the virus but said, "**** it" and flew to NZ anyway. He went to a cafe and found out he had it while at the cafe and that cafe decided to close for two weeks. That's two weeks loss of business in a country that can probably withstand COVID-19 just fine. People on the plane that were going there on holiday who sat next to that dickhead now are self-isolating instead of enjoying their time in NZ.

Instead of apologizing for it, they passed the buck onto the government instead of applying some individual responsibility and basic common sense. The guy is getting eviscerated on social media.

[brownmamba00]

https://youtu.be/rfkbv_WQtn0

[bladefd]

Ive never questioned why anything is closing. People, business and governments should do whatever they feel they need to to minimize the effects. Even if it saves 1 life its still worth it. All ive been saying is that the fear is irrational because the coronavirus is no more deadly than the flu is. So if you dont worry about the flu why are you worrying about the coronavirus? Why arnt you worried about jumping in the car with your friends in family? Theres other things out there that are just as likely to kill you that people dont worry a second about so why worry about the coronavirus?

Panic is never good in any situation. Certainly it's irrational, too emotional based and does not help anything. People should avoid panic & fear. That's fair and reasonable if you stopped right there.

However, you are going the extra step in arguing "...BUT it's no worse than flu." That's where people are questioning you because it's just factually incorrect. Why go that extra step when we know for certain that the coronavirus is deadlier than the flu? Is that extra step even necessary?? Nobody is asking you to compare two very different viruses, even though they are from same family.. That's you going out of your way to hammer down over and over again in this thread and other threads & constantly attacking anyone who says otherwise. What's exactly your motive and objective??

[Bronbron23]

Panic is never good in any situation. Certainly it's irrational, too emotional based and does not help anything. People should avoid panic & fear. That's fair and reasonable if you stopped right there.

However, you are going the extra step in arguing "...BUT it's no worse than flu." That's where people are questioning you because it's just factually incorrect. Why go that extra step when we know for certain that the coronavirus is deadlier than the flu? Is that extra step even necessary?? Nobody is asking you to compare two very different viruses, even though they are from same family.. That's you going out of your way to hammer down over and over again in this thread and other threads & constantly attacking anyone who says otherwise. What's exactly your motive and objective??

Because its just not true that its worse than the flu. There absolutely no data to back that up. This flu season in th us there have been 20,000 people who've died from influenza. Theres only 80 dead from the coronavirus. Theres been 136 kids who've died from the flu.

The death rate that peope are throwing around isnt true either. I think theres just under 4000 confirmed cases and about 80 deaths and this is what people are using to calculate the death rate. The flu on the other hand is being calculated by using flu estimates. We know alot more about the flu so its much more easier to estimate how many people are effected every flu season. The estimates for the flu this flu season more 30 million or something crazy like that. This is why the death rate is so low. If you used coronavirus estimates instead of confirmed cases the infected numbers would be much much higher which would drive the death rate down close to where the flu death rate is.

Its easy to say the coronavirus is more deadly but its just not true so far.
.

[Bronbron23]

Yes i dont think we should shut down the world for something like the flu. I say this for the exact reason you talk about how people are losing work from all the shutdowns. I dont see how we can do that. People and the economy are gonna get screwed. I think its better to take precautions that we can. Sanitize, stay home if your sick and stuff like that. Maybe just keeping old people home would of been good idea since there the ones that are dying from it. People taking care of old people could stay home also but not everyone. It dosnt generally kill younger people. So what if you get it. As long as your not gonna be around anyone over 70 its all good. Its no different than getting the flu. It will come and it will pass. If all these younger healthy people stopped going to the clinics and hospitals for mild coronavirus symptoms it would take alot of the stress you speak of off the health care system as well.

That said thats just my opinion. I have no issues with shutting everything down to save lives if thats what everyone feels is the best strategy. I may not totally agree but i get it.

[Stephonit]

Because its just not true that its worse than the flu. There absolutely no data to back that up. This flu season in th us there have been 20,000 people who've died from influenza. Theres only 80 dead from the coronavirus. Theres been 136 kids who've died from the flu.

The death rate that peope are throwing around isnt true either. I think theres just under 4000 confirmed cases and about 80 deaths and this is what people are using to calculate the death rate. The flu on the other hand is being calculated by using flu estimates. We know alot more about the flu so its much more easier to estimate how many people are effected every flu season. The estimates for the flu this flu season more 30 million or something crazy like that. This is why the death rate is so low. If you used coronavirus estimates instead of confirmed cases the infected numbers would be much much higher which would drive the death rate down close to where the flu death rate is.

Its easy to say the coronavirus is more deadly but its just not true so far.
.


The very real potential for exponential growth of infection means current U.S. numbers mean nothing not even taking into account the underwhelming testing. Here's an exercise for you: starting with a penny double the amount each day for a month and tell me how much you end up with (1 cent the first day, 2 cents the second day, 4 cents the third day, 8 cents the fourth day, etc.). The R0 of covid-19 is 2.2 so it has that potential. 100 today if left unchecked could easily be 30 million or more in 3 months.

[ZenMaster]

The very real potential for exponential growth of infection means current U.S. numbers mean nothing not even taking into account the underwhelming testing. Here's an exercise for you: starting with a penny double the amount each day for a month and tell me how much you end up with (1 cent the first day, 2 cents the second day, 4 cents the third day, 8 cents the fourth day, etc.). The R0 of covid-19 is 2.2 so it has that potential. 100 today if left unchecked could easily be 30 million or more in 3 months.

Saw this in an article today:


But this article [in Italian] from Italy's La Repubblica is concerning: a small community in Veneto tested every single one of its 3,000 inhabitants and found that "between 50 and 75 per cent" of those infected showed absolutely no symptoms.

The doctor in charge of that study argues that the key to eradicate the virus lies in identifying these asymptomatic people "because nobody fears or isolates them" currently.

"This is especially true to people like doctors and nurses, who frequently develop asymptomatic infections and continue to spread the infection among themselves and their patients," he said.

[ItsMillerTime]

Because its just not true that its worse than the flu. There absolutely no data to back that up. This flu season in th us there have been 20,000 people who've died from influenza. Theres only 80 dead from the coronavirus. Theres been 136 kids who've died from the flu.

The death rate that peope are throwing around isnt true either. I think theres just under 4000 confirmed cases and about 80 deaths and this is what people are using to calculate the death rate. The flu on the other hand is being calculated by using flu estimates. We know alot more about the flu so its much more easier to estimate how many people are effected every flu season. The estimates for the flu this flu season more 30 million or something crazy like that. This is why the death rate is so low. If you used coronavirus estimates instead of confirmed cases the infected numbers would be much much higher which would drive the death rate down close to where the flu death rate is.

Its easy to say the coronavirus is more deadly but its just not true so far.
.

Bro you don't know what the fvck you're talking about to be honest. It's idiots like you that are going to go out and spread this virus even further.

[Bronbron23]

Dude i already know this and ive been saying the numbers are higher than reported and are gonna keep going up. Its common sense for something this contagious. Again though exactly how is it worse than the flu that has infected an estimated 36 million people so far this flu season in the us alone and killed 22,000 people? Even when the coronavirus spreads and miliions more have it how will it be worse than the flu? The death rate isnt higher despite the b.s numbers.

[Bronbron23]

Ok so how is worse than the flu? Rember the flu has infected 36 million people in the us and killed 22,000 of them 145 of them children. So explain to me why its worse than the flu?

Oh and have a son and wife and im around my parents who are old. I take precautions just like everyone else. I dont want this to spread anymore than you do. Im not saying we shouldn't do what we can to stop it or contain it. All im saying is this isnt any worse than the flu so if you dont worry about that you shouldn't worry yourself over the coronavirus.

[Bronbron23]

Yes its exponential growth is inevitable i get that. Even with that though how will it be worse than the flu which infected 36 million so far this flu season? It caused 22,000 deaths 145 of them children. Even if coronavirus gets to those crazy numbers which i dought it will, how would it be worse?

[Kungfro]

Thats fair but one could argue that the stress on the health care system has alot to do with the fear and panic the media has caused. Thousands of people who are younger and healthy who have mild symptoms are tying up the system when they should just be staying home and letting the virus run its course.

I'd like to see you try, because that's not what's happening. I don't know how the US news media is reporting this, but the news here in Canada has been pretty consistent in their messaging. Stay home if your symptoms are mild, if you think you are infected and need medical attention call ahead and follow doctor recommendations. Hospitals aren't being overrun because everyone is trying to get tested. Severe cases of Covid-19 result in Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome, which requires being put on a ventilator. There is no where near enough to accommodate a sudden spike in patients, and without it the chances of survival in these severe cases drops significantly. This is what's causing hospitals to become overburdened, not some mass hysteria.

[rawimpact]

From what i've seen here in the states or Virginia to be specific. Princess Anne, VA is being overwhelmed with their screening lines - kids are looking to be tested. Considering the limited number of tests, we've employed a screeners and are dismissing a lot of those that feel they may have COVID-19 based solely on current numbers relating age and prognosis.

[FKAri]

Yes its exponential growth is inevitable i get that. Even with that though how will it be worse than the flu which infected 36 million so far this flu season? It caused 22,000 deaths 145 of them children. Even if coronavirus gets to those crazy numbers which i dought it will, how would it be worse?

I can't see who tf you're quoting.

[Kungfro]

From what i've seen here in the states or Virginia to be specific. Princess Anne, VA is being overwhelmed with their screening lines - kids are looking to be tested. Considering the limited number of tests, we've employed a screeners and are dismissing a lot of those that feel they may have COVID-19 based solely on current numbers relating age and prognosis.

I guess what I meant to say is that the real danger is lack of equipment for treatment, not from long lines for testing. Hopefully more of the drive-through screenings are implemented, seems like one of the better approaches to this.

[red1]

the actual virus is not a problem and its spread is inevitable - people bounce back from the illness no problem. its comparable to a bad cold if you get sick and in many cases you wont even have any symptoms - 80% or more recover on their own without any help just have to quarantine themselves.

pneumonia is the only real issue and that only comes up in a small percentage of cases and that is mostly elderly people or people with weak immune systems. so eat right and get proper sleep if you think you're at risk.


the real damage was ALWAYS going to be the economic fallout. you actually WANT the virus to spread and run it course sooner rather than later. the damage to industries and to individuals and families from lost wages was always going to be greater than a virus comparable to a ****ing cold or flu virus.

[Facepalm]

Meanwhile, in Florida....Bronbron is somewhere in there


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=77&v=ZZamrmTMs6w&feature=emb_title

[Bronbron23]

Thats crazy. When i say dong worry about it i dont mean go to a packed beach lol. All im saying is fear wise you have nothing to worry about

[Stanley Kobrick]

it's just the flu!

[Bronbron23]

I can't see who tf you're quoting.

Man i dont even know anymore lol. Ment go reply with quote but i didn't

[FKAri]

Man i dont even know anymore lol. Ment go reply with quote but i didn't

Gotta do reply with quote. Clicking reply even on a post does not quote it.

[Bronbron23]

Gotta do reply with quote. Clicking reply even on a post does not quote it.

Yeah thanks i realized that after the fact.

[bladefd]

The very real potential for exponential growth of infection means current U.S. numbers mean nothing not even taking into account the underwhelming testing. Here's an exercise for you: starting with a penny double the amount each day for a month and tell me how much you end up with (1 cent the first day, 2 cents the second day, 4 cents the third day, 8 cents the fourth day, etc.). The R0 of covid-19 is 2.2 so it has that potential. 100 today if left unchecked could easily be 30 million or more in 3 months.

Another example.. Take a piece of paper. Fold it in half (double thickness). Take what you get and fold that in half (double thickness). Do it again. Do it 40 times and the paper reaches the moon. Do it 100 times and you end up with thickness larger than the thickness of our entire universe.

All started with a piece of regular paper thin enough to give you a paper cut because it is thinner than your skin thickness.

That is exponential growth and we can't wrap our minds around it. Sure, 100 deaths seems like nothing compared to the flu but left unchecked with NO TREATMENT and NO IMMUNITY and UNCHECKED, that number escalates into hundreds of thousands of deaths minimum within weeks if we sit around and do nothing.. We reach the crazy number of deaths with the flu while we have access to antivirals, yearly vaccines, antibodies built up over years of exposure and treatments available. Can you imagine how many would die from flu without any treatment, vaccines, antivirals, and natural immunity? It would be incomprehensible. That is where we are with this new coronavirus - no vaccines, no immunity, no cures, no treatments, and limited knowledge (still trying to gather more information). If we don't take mitigating steps we have been last couple weeks (and continue will do so for couple more months), you would be looking at flu numbers sooner than later. And estimates and preliminary research IS showing coronavirus is deadlier or at least more severe than the flu due to the very reasons articulated above.

Look at the crazy steps China took and they still had hell for lord knows how long (they are still continuously lying, deflecting and blaming others). We don't have an authoritarian government and essentially an emperor like Winnie the Pooh in China ordering a decree to scare people into hiding.

[Stephonit]

Dude i already know this and ive been saying the numbers are higher than reported and are gonna keep going up. Its common sense for something this contagious. Again though exactly how is it worse than the flu that has infected an estimated 36 million people so far this flu season in the us alone and killed 22,000 people? Even when the coronavirus spreads and miliions more have it how will it be worse than the flu? The death rate isnt higher despite the b.s numbers.

South Korea is seen as the most aggressive and successful with its testing so far and are considered to have managed their cases well. Their death toll is around 0.7%. That would still be 7 times higher than for flu. The fatality rate across all ages is also consistently higher across the board when compared with flu and dramatically so with the elderly. There isn't much evidence to show it is the same as the flu. The evidence tends to show it is worse. The question is how much worse. Slightly worse or a lot worse?

[MaxFly]

I am on the exact same wavelength as you. People do not understand the economic fall out of all this.

Small business, restaurants and cafes that rely on small margins will have a tough time. They can't just pay out their employees out of good will because society says they have to. This will hurt the servers, host, bus boy. Maybe not so much the food providers as you can still order in. This would be a legitimate time to at least increase prices on take out meals to cover the cost of lost revenue otherwise.

We need people to take it serious and some responsibility and not also just rely on what the government says. Someone travelled from Australia to New Zealand who went and got tested for the virus but said, "**** it" and flew to NZ anyway. He went to a cafe and found out he had it while at the cafe and that cafe decided to close for two weeks. That's two weeks loss of business in a country that can probably withstand COVID-19 just fine. People on the plane that were going there on holiday who sat next to that dickhead now are self-isolating instead of enjoying their time in NZ.

Instead of apologizing for it, they passed the buck onto the government instead of applying some individual responsibility and basic common sense. The guy is getting eviscerated on social media.

Yup... and that... that to me is what is irrational. Or perhaps it's sheer stupidity or arrogance. Some people are unbelievable.

[MaxFly]

Dude i already know this and ive been saying the numbers are higher than reported and are gonna keep going up. Its common sense for something this contagious. Again though exactly how is it worse than the flu that has infected an estimated 36 million people so far this flu season in the us alone and killed 22,000 people? Even when the coronavirus spreads and miliions more have it how will it be worse than the flu? The death rate isnt higher despite the b.s numbers.

A significant number of elders and individuals with underlying health issues tend to get the flu vaccine every fall. There is no COVID-19 vaccine, so these individuals are more likely to get the virus and experience more severe symptoms.

[MaxFly]

Thats crazy. When i say dong worry about it i dont mean go to a packed beach lol. All im saying is fear wise you have nothing to worry about

If you are saying that people should continue to do what they normally do during flu season, going to the beach is what some people naturally do since many of them are not worried about the flu. Are you saying that people packing the beach is a problem?

[red1]

hospitality and service industry is already going down.




save cash folks. let this be a reminder to you broke young men - you cant afford kids so dont do it.

[Meticode]

Yes its exponential growth is inevitable i get that. Even with that though how will it be worse than the flu which infected 36 million so far this flu season? It caused 22,000 deaths 145 of them children. Even if coronavirus gets to those crazy numbers which i dought it will, how would it be worse?

If it infects 36 million people like the flu (which had a vaccine for it), it could legit kill a million people or more if the mortality rate is 1-3%. 1 million > 22,000. In about 14 days it will have infected 1 million people worldwide. Right now every 14-19 days it's increased 10 fold. Like day 1 it's at 100 people, day 14 it's at 1000 people. Day 28 it's at 10,000 people, Day 42 it's at 100,000 people. Right now in about two weeks we'll be at the 1 million person mark world wide. And that's the point where it can take off. Becuase 2 weeks after that is 10 million, then 100,000 million, etc.

[Bimbo Coles]

You really think this is about a virus?

[Bronbron23]

If it infects 36 million people like the flu (which had a vaccine for it), it could legit kill a million people or more if the mortality rate is 1-3%. 1 million > 22,000. In about 14 days it will have infected 1 million people worldwide. Right now every 14-19 days it's increased 10 fold. Like day 1 it's at 100 people, day 14 it's at 1000 people. Day 28 it's at 10,000 people, Day 42 it's at 100,000 people. Right now in about two weeks we'll be at the 1 million person mark world wide. And that's the point where it can take off. Becuase 2 weeks after that is 10 million, then 100,000 million, etc. yes i understand how the math works the problem is your math isnt right because the coronavirus death rate isnt 1-3%. Its more like .1 or .2%, the same as the flu. Heres the problem. We know enough about the flu to make fairly close estimates of how many people it infects. This is what is used when calculating the flu death rate. With the coronavirus though they dont know enough about it to make accurate enough estimates so they just use confirmed cases instead. This is how they calculate the coronavirus death rate. The problem with that is there's way more people infected than are confirmed and once they do come out with estimates the death rate will go down considerably. For example ohio dosnt even have 100 confirmed cases but the health officials there estimate theres at least 100,000 people infected.

And heres an article by a professor who estimates that theres anywhere from 50,000 to 500,000 people infected in the us. Theres just over 100 deaths so far so even if you use the low end of that estimate that still puts the death rate down to .2% https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487562-johns-hopkins-professor-estimates-at-least-50000-people-have-coronavirus-in%3famp

This will come to light the more we learn about the virus.

[Bronbron23]

I never said do what you normally do. All i said is dont fear and worry about like you wouldn't the flu. Take all the precautions they say will help to limit the spread but just dont worry about it because its no worse than the flu.

If you have the flu btw you shouldn't be going to public places anyway. It does kill 200000 people a year in the us alone. 100+ of them children. I know when im sick i stay my ass home. Thats what sick days are for.

[bigkingsfan]

475 just died in Italy in the last 24 hours

Just the flu.

[Bronbron23]

South Korea is seen as the most aggressive and successful with its testing so far and are considered to have managed their cases well. Their death toll is around 0.7%. That would still be 7 times higher than for flu. The fatality rate across all ages is also consistently higher across the board when compared with flu and dramatically so with the elderly. There isn't much evidence to show it is the same as the flu. The evidence tends to show it is worse. The question is how much worse. Slightly worse or a lot worse?

Again the problem is with how the flu and coronavirus death rates are calculated. The flu uses estimates and the coronavirus uses confirmed cases. If the coronavirus used estimates it would drive the death rate down to close to the flu. There are some experts that have made estimates. Ohio has estimated that they have 100,000 coronavirus infections. They dont even have 100 confirmed yet i dont think. Heres an article by a professor that estimates us casesin in between 50,000 and 500,000 .https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487562-johns-hopkins-professor-estimates-at-least-50000-people-have-coronavirus-in%3famp

More and more estimates like these will come out which will drive the coronavirus death rate to close to the flu. Maybe lower.

[Bronbron23]

A significant number of elders and individuals with underlying health issues tend to get the flu vaccine every fall. There is no COVID-19 vaccine, so these individuals are more likely to get the virus and experience more severe symptoms.
Theres no proof of that. You only think there is because your using the inaccurate coronavirus death rate number. See the above responses to why this number is wrong.

[Bronbron23]

475 just died in Italy in the last 24 hours

Just the flu.

25,000 died in us from the flu this season, 112 dead from the coronavirus

Coronavirus is worse though.

[bigkingsfan]

25,000 died in us from the flu this season, 112 dead from the coronavirus

Coronavirus is worse though.
Italy numbers will be rookie numbers once the US is done with this.

[MaxFly]

Theres no proof of that. You only think there is because your using the inaccurate coronavirus death rate number. See the above responses to why this number is wrong.

You don't need death rate numbers. It's simple 3rd grade science. You do realize that many people who get the flu vaccine still come down with the flu, but often have milder symptoms as a result of having received the vaccine, right?

If no one got the seasonal flu vaccine more individuals would get the flu and many would experience more severe symptoms. You are aware of that, right?

[RRR3]

OP is retarded

[Bronbron23]

Italy numbers will be rookie numbers once the US is done with this.

No it wont. Everyone keeps using italy as the example but italy isnt a great model to use. For one coronavirus mainly kills older people and italy has the second oldest population in the world. Second italy is pretty small but it has a very large population.

The other thing you guys arnt thinking about is who the virus kills. The coronavirus almost exclusively kills old people. The flu while killing mostly old people does kill alot of middle aged and younger people also.

Theres easily 500,000 to 1,000,000 people infected with the coronavirus in the us already and theres just over 100 deaths. We would already have more deaths if that was the case.The numbers are gonna definitely go up but it wont get as bad as italy.

[Bronbron23]

You don't need death rate numbers. It's simple 3rd grade science. You do realize that many people who get the flu vaccine still come down with the flu, but often have milder symptoms as a result of having received the vaccine, right?

If no one got the seasonal flu vaccine more individuals would get the flu and many would experience more severe symptoms. You are aware of that, right?

Yes obviously but whats your point? Even though the coronavirus has no vaccine it still has a similar death rate to the flu. When they do get a vaccine it should drop the infections and death rate well below the flu.

[Bronbron23]

OP is retarded

A typical response from someone who probably actually is retarded :facepalm

[bigkingsfan]

No it wont. Everyone keeps using italy as the example but italy isnt a great model to use. For one coronavirus mainly kills older people and italy has the second oldest population in the world. Second italy is pretty small but it has a very large population.

The other thing you guys arnt thinking about is who the virus kills. The coronavirus almost exclusively kills old people. The flu while killing mostly old people does kill alot of middle aged and younger people also.

Theres easily 500,000 to 1,000,000 people infected with the coronavirus in the us already and theres just over 100 deaths. We would already have more deaths if that was the case.The numbers are gonna definitely go up but it wont get as bad as italy.
When the deaths surpass the flu #'s in the US, even with draconian prevention, you're still going to be crying, the flu is worse.

[Draz]

I have a cold and cough. I traveled back from Hawaii about 2 weeks ago. I also went to a sweet 16 where people kept hugging me this weekend.

Idk if I have it or what. I sound like shit too right now.

[RRR3]

A typical response from someone who probably actually is retarded :facepalm

Hey man at least I take public health and safety seriously. So who’s the real retarded one here?

[Patrick Chewing]

475 just died in Italy in the last 24 hours

Just the flu.

95% are over the age of 80.

Mind you, the casualty rate here in the States is just a little over a hundred. I think it's definitely an overreaction to have the markets crash as they've had.

[bladefd]

95% are over the age of 80.

Mind you, the casualty rate here in the States is just a little over a hundred. I think it's definitely an overreaction to have the markets crash as they've had.

So right around your age, patty?

[Patrick Chewing]

So right around your age, patty?

While I am much older and wiser and better looking than the Millennial shitbirds that post on this site, I haven't hit 40 yet. So slow your role.


Coronavirus don't want none of this.

[bigkingsfan]

95% are over the age of 80.

Mind you, the casualty rate here in the States is just a little over a hundred. I think it's definitely an overreaction to have the markets crash as they've had.
Let me guess, you think we will be under 200 deaths a week from now because we have only 100 so far. The deaths will come once we're overwhelmed and run out of ventilators, supplies, nurses, and doctors.

"Cuomo says current projections show that in 45 days, New York could need up to 110,000 hospital beds and 37,000 ventilators for coronavirus patients. It now has 53,000 beds and 3,000 ventilators."

[bladefd]

Let me guess, you think we will be under 200 deaths a week from now because we have only 100 so far. The deaths will come once we're overwhelmed and run out of ventilators, supplies, nurses, and doctors.

"Cuomo says current projections show that in 45 days, New York could need up to 110,000 hospital beds and 37,000 ventilators for coronavirus patients. It now has 53,000 beds and 3,000 ventilators."

Martial law is coming like in China and South Korea.. Something no American has seen since the Civil War.. There were several localized martial law declared like around the Katrina damage region, but nothing national since Civil War

[diamenz]

I have a cold and cough. I traveled back from Hawaii about 2 weeks ago. I also went to a sweet 16 where people kept hugging me this weekend.

Idk if I have it or what. I sound like shit too right now.

a high fever is the most common symptom.

[Bronbron23]

When the deaths surpass the flu #'s in the US, even with draconian prevention, you're still going to be crying, the flu is worse.

Nah man if i end up being wrong than ill admit. It wont be the first or last time. Lets hope im not though.

[Bronbron23]

Hey man at least I take public health and safety seriously. So who’s the real retarded one here?

Who said i dont take it seriously? The flu is pretty serious. When i have it i dont go out in public gatherings betting other peolple infected. I dont go see my parents so i dont get them sick. I would do the same with this. Its actually what their telling peoe to do. You sound like an emotional b*tch dude

[Meticode]

yes i understand how the math works the problem is your math isnt right because the coronavirus death rate isnt 1-3%. Its more like .1 or .2%, the same as the flu. Heres the problem. We know enough about the flu to make fairly close estimates of how many people it infects. This is what is used when calculating the flu death rate. With the coronavirus though they dont know enough about it to make accurate enough estimates so they just use confirmed cases instead. This is how they calculate the coronavirus death rate. The problem with that is there's way more people infected than are confirmed and once they do come out with estimates the death rate will go down considerably. For example ohio dosnt even have 100 confirmed cases but the health officials there estimate theres at least 100,000 people infected.

And heres an article by a professor who estimates that theres anywhere from 50,000 to 500,000 people infected in the us. Theres just over 100 deaths so far so even if you use the low end of that estimate that still puts the death rate down to .2% https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487562-johns-hopkins-professor-estimates-at-least-50000-people-have-coronavirus-in%3famp

This will come to light the more we learn about the virus.

We'll agree to disagree. You can say the same for the flu in regards to the numbers. I'm sure there's millions of people who get it every year that never go into the doctor to get tested for it. If you go to the clinic they won't test for it. They'll just give you a doctor's note stating "flu like symptoms" and refer you to a hospital that can test for it. In short, even if the true numbers for the mortality rate of the COVID-19 are 0.1 to 0.2%, I still best it's a lot higher than the flu because of the exact reasoning you described with the COVID-19 virus with people getting tested for it versus who actually has it.

[Patrick Chewing]

Let me guess, you think we will be under 200 deaths a week from now


I'll take that bet.

[Bronbron23]

We'll agree to disagree. You can say the same for the flu in regards to the numbers. I'm sure there's millions of people who get it every year that never go into the doctor to get tested for it. If you go to the clinic they won't test for it. They'll just give you a doctor's note stating "flu like symptoms" and refer you to a hospital that can test for it. In short, even if the true numbers for the mortality rate of the COVID-19 are 0.1 to 0.2%, I still best it's a lot higher than the flu because of the exact reasoning you described with the COVID-19 virus with people getting tested for it versus who actually has it.
Thats fair i guess time will tell. Lets hope for my ego and humanity's sake im right though lol

[Bronbron23]

I'll take that bet.

I wouldn't and im one of the few on here arguing against the coronavirus being no worse than the flu. Thing is the flu has killed about 25,000 people in the us this flu season. Thats more than 4000 people a month and 1000 people a week on average. The chances the coronavirus kills more than 100 people this week is pretty good.

[RRR3]

No one believes Patty is under 60 lol.

[Patrick Chewing]

I wouldn't and im one of the few on here arguing against the coronavirus being no worse than the flu. Thing is the flu has killed about 25,000 people in the us this flu season. Thats more than 4000 people a month and 1000 people a week on average. The chances the coronavirus kills more than 100 people this week is pretty good.


Actually, I may have to amend to under 300. At the time I posted that, the number was 151. I was still working with numbers of around 100.

[Bronbron23]

Actually, I may have to amend to under 300. At the time I posted that, the number was 151. I was still working with numbers of around 100.

I still wouldn't take it. Numbers are definitely gonna increase more and more over the next few months. We'll see though.

You know its bad when were betting on a virus because theres no sports. Lets hope this thing gets under control fast.

[MaxFly]

Yes obviously but whats your point? Even though the coronavirus has no vaccine it still has a similar death rate to the flu. When they do get a vaccine it should drop the infections and death rate well below the flu.

A vaccine for COVID-19 will take several months to verify and mass produce. We just started trials.

You just indirectly acknowledged what the point is. Even if we stipulate that COVID-19 has a similar death rate to the flu, if we try to deal with it without a vaccine and the shut downs and the social distancing measures that are being taken right now, we would end up seeing more deaths due to it than the flu because it will spread to more people since there is no vaccine.

Earlier you mentioned that they shouldn't "shut the world down," but do you understand why such drastic measures are being taken in the absence of a vaccine and proven effective treatments for COVID-19.

[Nanners]

95% are over the age of 80.

Mind you, the casualty rate here in the States is just a little over a hundred. I think it's definitely an overreaction to have the markets crash as they've had.

99% of those dead in Italy are also people with at least one other existing illness ... half of those dead had 3 or more existing illnesses (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says)

If an 80 year old with emphysema and heart disease gets killed by a cold, was it really the cold that killed him?

[Bronbron23]

A vaccine for COVID-19 will take several months to verify and mass produce. We just started trials.

You just indirectly acknowledged what the point is. Even if we stipulate that COVID-19 has a similar death rate to the flu, if we try to deal with it without a vaccine and the shut downs and the social distancing measures that are being taken right now, we would end up seeing more deaths due to it than the flu because it will spread to more people since there is no vaccine.

Earlier you mentioned that they shouldn't "shut the world down," but do you understand why such drastic measures are being taken in the absence of a vaccine and proven effective treatments for COVID-19.

No i didn't. When i say its no worse than the flu i mean even wothout a vaccine its no worse than the flu. With a vaccine it wont be anywhere close to as bad as the flu.

And not to say i told yall so but now that more testing is being done the death rate in the us is already well below what it was. At the moment its actually the same as the flu and thats with just the confirmed cases. The estimates are still much higher.

So i disagree that there would of more deaths than the flu but yes the numbers would definitely be much higher so i do see the value of it since it is saving lives. Ive never said we shouldn't take precautions. I just think this could of been handled much better. The media put everyone in a panic to where young healthy people who weren't at risk who would of just normally stayed home and waited the virus out felt the need to go in and get checked thus using up limited resources that should of been used for older people.

[Bronbron23]

Exactly. Italy is a perfect storm for this virus its not a reflection of how bad it could get for most of the world. With more testing bei g done the us confirmed cases are now at 14500 and there's 220 deaths. That already drops the death rate well below the initial number.

[FKAri]

No i didn't. When i say its no worse than the flu i mean even wothout a vaccine its no worse than the flu. With a vaccine it wont be anywhere close to as bad as the flu.

And not to say i told yall so but now that more testing is being done the death rate in the us is already well below what it was. At the moment its actually the same as the flu and thats with just the confirmed cases. The estimates are still much higher.

So i disagree that there would of more deaths than the flu but yes the numbers would definitely be much higher so i do see the value of it since it is saving lives. Ive never said we shouldn't take precautions. I just think this could of been handled much better. The media put everyone in a panic to where young healthy people who weren't at risk who would of just normally stayed home and waited the virus out felt the need to go in and get checked thus using up limited resources that should of been used for older people.

I know it's easier to say now but in hindsight we should've had more test kits and done aggressive testing and contact tracing. It would be a nuisance but people wouldn't be losing jobs and we wouldn't have had to shut everything down that way. We're now in a situation where no matter what we do the economy and health takes a big hit. We're going to have to find a balance eventually because it's not possible to be on lockdown indefinitely.

[falc39]

I know it's easier to say now but in hindsight we should've had more test kits and done aggressive testing and contact tracing. It would be a nuisance but people wouldn't be losing jobs and we wouldn't have had to shut everything down that way. We're now in a situation where no matter what we do the economy and health takes a big hit. We're going to have to find a balance eventually because it's not possible to be on lockdown indefinitely.

Completely agreed. Testing is the key and we completely messed this up. We are still in the dark because we don't have enough testing and it's going to continue to spread like wildfire because no one has a clue who has it or not. Yesterday people were playing in the parks because they didn't have to go to work :facepalm

I know as Americans we tend to think we are the most exceptional at everything but it would help if we swallowed our pride and ego and really learn from other countries that were more successful dealing with this. Not just from a scientific and procedural standpoint, but how we interact with each other culturally and our habits in public.

[bladefd]

Completely agreed. Testing is the key and we completely messed this up. We are still in the dark because we don't have enough testing and it's going to continue to spread like wildfire because no one has a clue who has it or not. Yesterday people were playing in the parks because they didn't have to go to work :facepalm

I know as Americans we tend to think we are the most exceptional at everything but it would help if we swallowed our pride and ego and really learn from other countries that were more successful dealing with this. Not just from a scientific and procedural standpoint, but how we interact with each other culturally and our habits in public.

Singapore took steps up front and look at where they are now. They don't have many deaths and came out ahead. We started off this crisis first calling it a Democrat hoax to "just a cold" to just a flu" to finally getting off our asses now but people still gathering in massive crowds on beaches.. Americans think nothing can happen to them until it does..

[MaxFly]

No i didn't. When i say its no worse than the flu i mean even wothout a vaccine its no worse than the flu. With a vaccine it wont be anywhere close to as bad as the flu.

I'm just going to quote you again.


People should use the same precaution as they do with the flu. Wash your hands, use hand sanitizer ect. Dont shut down the world though.

You have said "coronavirus has a similar death rate as the influenza." If the death rate of COVID-19 is similar to the flu (which means that a similar percentage of people die in relation to the number of people who contract the virus), but businesses stay open, large gatherings continue and more people catch COVID-19 because of a lack immunization, what do you think will happen?


And not to say i told yall so but now that more testing is being done the death rate in the us is already well below what it was. At the moment its actually the same as the flu and thats with just the confirmed cases. The estimates are still much higher.

So i disagree that there would of more deaths than the flu but yes the numbers would definitely be much higher so i do see the value of it since it is saving lives. Ive never said we shouldn't take precautions. I just think this could of been handled much better. The media put everyone in a panic to where young healthy people who weren't at risk who would of just normally stayed home and waited the virus out felt the need to go in and get checked thus using up limited resources that should of been used for older people.


It sounds like you're trying to walk back things you have said previously, but the stark nature of what you said is making that task difficult.

If states did not limit gatherings, resulting in the closing of businesses, houses of worship and other venues where large numbers of people came together, wouldn't more people die from COVID-19? Do you honestly think people would have stayed home and "waited the virus out" had states not declared emergencies and banned gatherings?

Resources and hospital space in the United States have not been used up by young people unnecessarily. I'm not sure where that narrative began, but the reason most young, healthy people are looking to get tested is that they want to make sure they don't unknowingly infect others who may not be as young or healthy as they are... which is the responsible thing to do. We have had so few test kits available in the US that health professionals have made sure that most of those who are tested are actually displaying symptoms of COVID-19 or have come into contact with someone who may have COVID-19.

[falc39]

When people say death rates for COVID-19 are a lot less because a lot of people are not diagnosed, I don't get what's the point because the same can be said for the flu, right? I mean, there are a lot of people walking around with the flu who never get tested or go to the doctors. So this statement isn't really that useful because it's basically a wash in comparison. Did I miss anything?

[Stephonit]

99% of those dead in Italy are also people with at least one other existing illness ... half of those dead had 3 or more existing illnesses (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says)

If an 80 year old with emphysema and heart disease gets killed by a cold, was it really the cold that killed him?

There are also Spain and Iran....

[tpols]

When people say death rates for COVID-19 are a lot less because a lot of people are not diagnosed, I don't get what's the point because the same can be said for the flu, right? I mean, there are a lot of people walking around with the flu who never get tested or go to the doctors. So this statement isn't really that useful because it's basically a wash in comparison. Did I miss anything?

I've never heard of people with the flu being totally asymptomatic. thats the difference.

[FKAri]

When people say death rates for COVID-19 are a lot less because a lot of people are not diagnosed, I don't get what's the point because the same can be said for the flu, right? I mean, there are a lot of people walking around with the flu who never get tested or go to the doctors. So this statement isn't really that useful because it's basically a wash in comparison. Did I miss anything?

There's people in hospitals who were never officially tested and they still won't test them. If they die, they don't count as a COVID19 death. Just a pneumonia or respiratory failure or whatever else they label it. There is eye witness accounts from nurses of this stuff happening in Washington state. And if you look at Russia, it's happening en masse.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-coronavirus-health-russia/sharp-increase-in-moscow-pneumonia-cases-fuels-fears-over-coronavirus-statistics-idUSKBN216305
so I don't know what numbers to trust in the end.

[MaxFly]

Singapore took steps up front and look at where they are now. They don't have many deaths and came out ahead. We started off this crisis first calling it a Democrat hoax to "just a cold" to just a flu" to finally getting off our asses now but people still gathering in massive crowds on beaches.. Americans think nothing can happen to them until it does..

Quoted for truth.

[BurningHammer]

Singapore took steps up front and look at where they are now. They don't have many deaths and came out ahead. We started off this crisis first calling it a Democrat hoax to "just a cold" to just a flu" to finally getting off our asses now but people still gathering in massive crowds on beaches.. Americans think nothing can happen to them until it does..
With a combination of being a very small country with small population. But yeah, Singaporeans are serious people who have had first-hand experience with SARS before.

The US is a much larger scale ala China. So they should better find ways to shut the country down to curb the spread, and it won't be any easier since there are many Americans who have been taught to or straight-up just ignores everything.

[Nanners]

The way this whole covid issue has been framed is completely backward.

One of the sad facts of life is that people die every day, for all kinds of reasons. If you're lucky, you will live long enough to become old, and for old people the top 5 causes of death are - Heart Disease, Cancer, Stroke, Respiratory disease, Influenza. There are lots of things we could do to reduce deaths by these causes - We know that sugar intake is related to heart disease, banning sugar would "save lives". We know that people who live downwind of an oil refinery have increased cancer rates, shutting down all refineries would "save lives". We know that cigarettes cause respiratory disease, banning cigarettes would "save lives". We know that influenza is highly contagious, sheltering-in-place during flu season every year would "save lives". The reason we dont resort to these draconian measures that would "SAVE LIVES", is because until a few weeks ago we understood that all of senior citizens whose lives would "saved" by banning sugar would just die to something else like Alzheimers, and we decided that having sugar and refineries and cigarettes and a functional economy is more important than maybe extending the lives of some old people. In reality, banning sugar wouldnt "save lives", it would prolong lives... and thats how we should be looking at covid.

They say that tons of people in Italy are being killed because of covid... but when you look at the numbers, the average age for those dead is ~80 (the life expectancy for Italy is 82 for comparison), and 99% of those who died had at least 1 pre-existing illness (50% of the dead had 3 or more illnesses). When an 80 year old life-long smoker with heart disease and emphysema gets killed by covid, are they really being killed by covid? or are they being killed because a lifetime of poor decision making has finally caught up to them in their old age? There are over 30 known strains of coronavirus (we discover new ones each year), how many of the old and sick Italians that die because of covid would have died from a different strain of corona next week? When you catch the common cold one of those corona strains is responsible about 25% of the time... thats what coronavirus is, its a cold.

Does it really make sense to destroy our economy and hide indoors for weeks or months just so that we can prolong the lives of some people that are so old and sick that they die from catching a cold?

[highwhey]

The way this whole covid issue has been framed is completely backward.

One of the sad facts of life is that people die every day, for all kinds of reasons. If you're lucky, you will live long enough to become old, and for old people the top 5 causes of death are - Heart Disease, Cancer, Stroke, Respiratory disease, Influenza. There are lots of things we could do to reduce deaths by these causes - We know that sugar intake is related to heart disease, banning sugar would "save lives". We know that people who live downwind of an oil refinery have increased cancer rates, shutting down all refineries would "save lives". We know that cigarettes cause respiratory disease, banning cigarettes would "save lives". We know that influenza is highly contagious, sheltering-in-place during flu season every year would "save lives". The reason we dont resort to these draconian measures that would "SAVE LIVES", is because until a few weeks ago we understood that all of senior citizens whose lives would "saved" by banning sugar would just die to something else like Alzheimers, and we decided that having sugar and refineries and cigarettes and a functional economy is more important than maybe extending the lives of some old people. In reality, banning sugar wouldnt "save lives", it would prolong lives... and thats how we should be looking at covid.

They say that tons of people in Italy are being killed because of covid... but when you look at the numbers, the average age for those dead is ~80 (the life expectancy for Italy is 82 for comparison), and 99% of those who died had at least 1 pre-existing illness (50% of the dead had 3 or more illnesses). When an 80 year old life-long smoker with heart disease and emphysema gets killed by covid, are they really being killed by covid? or are they being killed because a lifetime of poor decision making has finally caught up to them in their old age? There are over 30 known strains of coronavirus (we discover new ones each year), how many of the old and sick Italians that die because of covid would have died from a different strain of corona next week? When you catch the common cold one of those corona strains is responsible about 25% of the time... thats what coronavirus is, its a cold.

Does it really make sense to destroy our economy and hide indoors for weeks or months just so that we can prolong the lives of some people that are so old and sick that they die from catching a cold?

:facepalm so much ignorance densely packed into a single post. congrats, this might be the post with the most ignorance to word ratio on ISH.

[coin24]

They're now banning people from the beach:facepalm

The world has gone mad, there is no reasoning with this stupidity

[brownmamba00]

They're now banning people from the beach:facepalm

The world has gone mad, there is no reasoning with this stupidity

The reasoning is it's extremely contagious.

[brownmamba00]

What a tool:kobe:

[Smoke117]

The reasoning is it's extremely contagious.

Let’s all pray you come down with it soon. That will be a relief from your ****ing stupidity.

[brownmamba00]

Can you guys stop playing the numbers game these are not bball players. Comparing the seasonal flu with a pandemic that causes pneumonia is really short-sighted and just screams ignorance.

Are you people that lonely tho? No family no kids no friends...as long as you get to live your shitty day-to-day lives it's all cool, huh?

[brownmamba00]

Let’s all pray you come down with it soon. That will be a relief from your ****ing stupidity.

If you want to drink and snort dope go ahead no one's bothering you puto.

[brownmamba00]

Smoke's best friend is a 30$ hooker he snorts dope with every other day.

[ZenMaster]

Can you guys stop playing the numbers game these are not bball players. Comparing the seasonal flu with a pandemic that causes pneumonia is really short-sighted and just screams ignorance.

Are you people that lonely tho? No family no kids no friends...as long as you get to live your shitty day-to-day lives it's all cool, huh?

You are right, but it's also important to keep some overall perspective, to remain sane vs the apocalyptic sense you get from reading about this in the media.

E.g that even with this virus having been in the world for all of this year, there are still almost 18 million more people in the world since Jan 1st and up until today so far, with 108,000 of those just from yesterday and up until today.
That's almost the same amount of people who live in all of Florida, added to the world this year so far.

[brownmamba00]

You are right, but it's also important to keep some overall perspective, to remain sane vs the apocalyptic sense you get from reading about this in the media.

E.g that even with this virus having been in the world for all of this year, there are still almost 18 million more people in the world since Jan 1st and up until today so far, with 108,000 of those just from yesterday and up until today.
That's almost the same amount of people who live in all of Florida, added to the world this year so far.

100%

I'm not screaming end of the world but closed beaches should be the last thing we should be worried about.

Some guys in this thread act like Italy is the exception. But we're on the same trajectory of countries like Spain France Iran. Those countries basically collapsed in a matter of days.

We should be taking precautions. This pandemic has not peaked yet worldwide and it's not going away by april.

[ZenMaster]

100%

I'm not screaming end of the world but closed beaches should be the last thing we should be worried about.

Some guys in this thread act like Italy is the exception. But we're on the same trajectory of countries like Spain France Iran. Those countries basically collapsed in a matter of days.

We should be taking precautions. This pandemic has not peaked yet worldwide and it's not going away by april.

This might become a long post, not sure, but I have quite a lot of thoughts on this. I work within marketing, for a company that's pretty good at what it does within it's industry in quite a few countries around the world. A lot of it is about expression and how things are perceived individually vs the reality on a large scale.
Though my job has nothing to do with health, I still think a lot of it can be applied to a world situation like this, if nothing but to serve as a healthy questioning reality check.

I was in the middle of writing, but it'll be too long and I have a few other things to take care off - won't mind diving into this aspect of the crisis at a later time.
A lot of it was about how people perceive the death of someone compared to how close to you it happens relations wise and how western governments response to the virus can be seen from the same POV.
Would lead me to write about societal expectations vs grand scale reality.
E.g you say "Those countries basically collapsed in a matter of days", where it can be argued that it's society as we've gotten used to that has collapsed. People are still eating, drinking and living. A plus would be that the environmental strain we put on the planet is down a ton.
One could argue, and I believe you will hear some people argue this at the end of this crisis, that if society as we know it is so fragile that it can collapse so quickly from something we know is a natural part of life - disease - then we might not be using the right model.
The question here is how much of society should be tied up to the economy and activities that people do to have fun in their life.

The general perception is that the world is what it is when it comes to population. You cannot see the population increase because you can only be one place at a time, nonetheless it's real and happening.

So the end question would become, how much should we adhere to a natural part of life that is disease vs keeping society as we know it running - how important is the economy to us?
Depending on how someone views this on a grand scale, the question can be framed differently:

E.g Is it worth it to shut down society for the rest of 2020 to prevent or delay 10 million deaths worldwide? Sounds very human to say yes to this.

Vs

Is it worth it to shut down society for the rest of 2020 because there'll only be 62 million more people in the world instead of 72 million by years end? Sounds quite logical to say "well it doesn't really matter in the end, there'll still be twice as many humans in 2060 than today.

Personally I'm quite neutral in all of this, just find it interesting things to consider. I think the positive is that for the most part, people are doing quite a bit together to combat this. Yeah there are some outliers, but in general people are concerned and looking out.