All-Time Leading NBA Turnoverers

[dreamshake]

Rank Player TOV
1. Karl Malone* 4524
2. LeBron James 4402
3. Moses Malone* 4264
4. John Stockton* 4244
5. Kobe Bryant 4010
6. Jason Kidd* 4003
7. Julius Erving* 3940
8. Artis Gilmore* 3926
9. Isiah Thomas* 3682
10. Hakeem Olajuwon* 3667
11. Russell Westbrook 3562

LeBron on pace to become the all time leader in turnovers before it's all said and done. What a feat.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/tov_career.html

[LAmbruh]

All Time Assist Leaders:

John Stockton
Jason Kidd
Lebron James


Crazy how guys like Kobe broke top 5 in TOV's despite being notoriously known as a non-passing ballhog

[TheCorporation]

All Time Assist Leaders:

John Stockton
Jason Kidd
Lebron James


Crazy how guys like Kobe broke top 5 in TOV's despite being notoriously known as a non-passing ballhog

Shut. It. Down.

Good to see ya brotha :cheers:

Still shuttin shit down. Good to see

[FireDavidKahn]

All Time Assist Leaders:

John Stockton
Jason Kidd
Lebron James


Crazy how guys like Kobe broke top 5 in TOV's despite being notoriously known as a non-passing ballhog

Don't do 'em like that

https://media0.giphy.com/media/3oEjHCWdU7F4hkcudy/source.gif

[LAmbruh]

Shut. It. Down.

Good to see ya brotha :cheers:

Still shuttin shit down. Good to see

we stilll eatin good outchea brodi:dancin

[Stanley Kobrick]

it would be interesting to see the assist/turnover ratio for those guys

[TheCorporation]

we stilll eatin good outchea brodi:dancin
The Fam

:dancin

[3ball]

Lebron's career assist average is garbage for a PG and massive ball-dominator

it's just another example of him being overrated..

[TheCorporation]

Lebron's career assist average is garbage for a PG and massive ball-dominator

it's just another example of him being overrated..

Imagine your tears :lol

[3ball]

Imagine your tears :lol
your worst fears are correct - he'll be old as dirt next year and a complete shell - this year was his only chance; now he'll be exposed in 2021 much worse than 2019.. it will be ugly

it's ova... :dancin:

[ClipperRevival]

Bron fam not liking this longevity stat. :yaohappy:

[Smoke117]

your worst fears are correct - he'll be old as dirt next year and a complete shell - this year was his only chance; now he'll be exposed in 2021 much worse than 2019.. it will be ugly

it's ova... :dancin:

It's literally impossible for a guy going into his 18th season with the most minutes played by far to be exposed. That LeBron is still as great as he is right now is a testament to how good he is. It's ridiculous for him to be be playing ball at such a high level at this point in his career.

[Smoke117]

Bron fam not liking this longevity stat. :yaohappy:

You realize Kobe has only 400 less turnovers while having less points and 3000 less assists, right? When you are 3rd all time in points and 8th all time in assists you are going to have turnovers. You morons act like his points/assist to turnover ratio is bad or something. That he's going to end up being the all time turnover leader has to bet he most piss weak argument you Bran haters have.

[SouBeachTalents]

You realize Kobe has only 400 less turnovers while having less points and 3000 less assists, right? When you are 3rd all time in points and 8th all time in assists you are going to have turnovers. You morons act like his points/assist to turnover ratio is bad or something.
The Jordan stans are so shook by this guy, it's hilarious. Their obsessive hate is the biggest compliment they can pay to LeBron

[superduper]

WTF Bran is so over rated :oldlol:

Playmaker? :wtf:

[LostCause]

LeBron actually became the all time leader in turnovers if you include playoffs, which a lot of these threads tend to do

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?474611-LeBron-closing-in-on-the-record

Though man, from the time that thread was created to now, everything was turned utterly on its head. Who could’ve predicted Kobe’s death, Coronavirus suspending the season etc. Crazy

[Manny98]

LeBron actually became the all time leader in turnovers if you include playoffs, which a lot of these threads tend to do

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?474611-LeBron-closing-in-on-the-record

Though man, from the time that thread was created to now, everything was turned utterly on its head. Who could’ve predicted Kobe’s death, Coronavirus suspending the season etc. Crazy
You do realize LeBron actually has a much better assist to turnover ratio than your boy right?

[red1]

top-3 all-time NBA scorer with a 2.0+ assist to turnover ratio- that's that vaunted championship-level BRON BALL



no wonder he has 3* rings :eek:





*asterisk is because of the NBA conspiracy to prevent him from getting more rings - blatant rigging from stern and silver

[FireDavidKahn]

top-3 all-time NBA scorer with a 2.0+ assist to turnover ratio- that's that vaunted championship-level BRON BALL



no wonder he has 3* rings :eek:





*asterisk is because of the NBA conspiracy to prevent him from getting more rings - blatant rigging from stern and silver

LeUnlucky is one of the unluckiest athletes to ever live.

[LostCause]

You do realize LeBron actually has a much better assist to turnover ratio than your boy right?

What’s that got to do with the data I posted?

Don’t be so insecure

[3ball]

championship-level BRON BALL


You cite personal numbers, but Lebron's teams rank low in assists - a low ball movement brand that is 18-32 in the championship for his career.. so bron-ball is a massive loser - his teams are the "clippers" of the Finals (back when the clips were bad)

also 3 rings in 17 years is by far the worst championship frequency of any top 10 candidate.. bron-ball is a massive loser

[red1]

You cite personal numbers, but Lebron's teams rank low in assists - a low ball movement brand that is 18-32 in the championship for his career.. so bron-ball is a massive loser - his teams are the "clippers" of the Finals (back when the clips were bad)

also 3 rings in 17 years is by far the worst championship frequency of any top 10 candidate.. bron-ball is a massive loser

dude you SINGLEHANDEDLY make me think lebron is actually the GOAT. the level of defensiveness mental gymnastics and excuse-making from you is UNREAL.


just acknowledge that lebron is the player of the decade, the GOAT of the modern era, and at the very least top-5 all time. just make that acknowledgement.

[EllEffEll]

Risk vs Reward

Never up, never in.

[red1]

3ball is the same retard that thought MJ's championship bulls were comparable to the mo williams cavaliers - complete ****ing clown right here considering jordan didnt and WOULDNT win a single thing with mo ****ing williams as his "allstar" running mate. :oldlol:



moron tried to tell me years ago that pippen and mo williams were comparable support. :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

dude you SINGLEHANDEDLY make me think lebron is actually the GOAT. the level of defensiveness mental gymnastics and excuse-making from you is UNREAL.


just acknowledge that lebron is the player of the decade, the GOAT of the modern era, and at the very least top-5 all time. just make that acknowledgement.
Bruh, he can't even acknowledge LeBron is top 15 :oldlol:

[red1]

Risk vs Reward

Never up, never in.
facts.



lebrons points + assists to turnover ratio is literally GOAT material considering some of the teams he was carrying as the sole offensive threat...

[red1]

Bruh, he can't even acknowledge LeBron is top 15 :oldlol:

he is a complete clown. I used to argue with him and thought he was intelligent but he's actually a complete ****ing moron.


he literally thinks jordan would carry the 09 and 10 cavs to rings - when in reality he'd get wrecked and see a repeat of the 1-9 "no pip no chip" days - and thats just A ****ING FACT. :roll:

[Manny98]

What’s that got to do with the data I posted?

Don’t be so insecure

MJ doesn't even have a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio :oldlol:

He would absolutely smash the turnover record if he was forced to be the primary playmaker on his team like LeBron

[superduper]

MJ doesn't even have a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio :oldlol:

He would absolutely smash the turnover record if he was forced to be the primary playmaker on his team like LeBron

LeBron's never "forced" to be the playmaker. His selfish style and obsession of stats forces it upon the team and kills any and all chances of player movement/ball movement.

On top of that MJ was just the most dominant scorer ever, a rich man's Kawhi.

[red1]

LeBron's never "forced" to be the playmaker. His selfish style and obsession of stats forces it upon the team and kills any and all chances of player movement/ball movement.

On top of that MJ was just the most dominant scorer ever, a rich man's Kawhi.

dude you need to shut the **** up.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ast_career.html



why do I always see your shitty posts right when I check the threads Im interested in? you need to stop being such a massive lebron stan. your posts are wack.

[superduper]

^Replies with stats :oldlol:

[LAmbruh]

dude you need to shut the **** up.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ast_career.html



why do I always see your shitty posts right when I check the threads Im interested in? you need to stop being such a massive lebron stan. your posts are wack.

Lakers top 5 in assists per game

that ball movement :applause:

that bron ball :applause:

[Manny98]

dude you need to shut the **** up.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ast_career.html



why do I always see your shitty posts right when I check the threads Im interested in? you need to stop being such a massive lebron stan. your posts are wack.

Stop bullying your Canadian brother :no:

[red1]

^Replies with stats :oldlol:

are you ****ing retarded? wait dont answer that I already know. :oldlol:


the entire discussion is about stats you mental midget. look at what the thread creator posted.


and then stop posting. period. :oldlol:

[red1]

Lakers top 5 in assists per game

that ball movement

that bron ball :applause:

staples is lit fam those lakers fans know how to turn up


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WeeklyAdmiredBoto-size_restricted.gif
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WeeklyAdmiredBoto-size_restricted.gif

[tpols]

what the **** was up with karl malone? mostly guards on this list and hes # 1.

MJ's game winning strip on him before "the shot" is starting to make sense.

[Stanley Kobrick]

so many variables, so much context. we must look at everything in a vacuum

[red1]

what the **** was up with karl malone? mostly guards on this list and hes # 1.

MJ's game winning strip on him before "the shot" is starting to make sense.

dude kobe would've literally been ranked the GOAT if he played in MJ's place. I almost believe that now.


kobe is literally arguably the GOAT 1on1 scorer, alongside MJ - and then you give him the competition that MJ faced instead of the spurs, and mavs, and the west when it was what it was? thats moving up 5 spots in the GOAT tier right there on the spot.




karl "the pedophile" ****ing malone :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

dude kobe would've literally been ranked the GOAT if he played in MJ's place. I almost believe that now.


kobe is literally arguably the GOAT 1on1 scorer, alongside MJ - and then you give him the competition that MJ faced instead of the spurs, and mavs, and the west when it was what it was? thats moving up 5 spots in the GOAT tier right there on the spot.




karl "the pedophile" ****ing malone :oldlol:

What was wrong with Jordan's competition? He faced some of the greatest bigs, overall TEAM defenses and a number of 60-win clubs in the playoffs.

I've grown to like and appreciate Kobe. But he wasn't winning 6 in Jordan's place. He was an inferior player even with arguably more skill.

[SouBeachTalents]

dude kobe would've literally been ranked the GOAT if he played in MJ's place. I almost believe that now.


kobe is literally arguably the GOAT 1on1 scorer, alongside MJ - and then you give him the competition that MJ faced instead of the spurs, and mavs, and the west when it was what it was? thats moving up 5 spots in the GOAT tier right there on the spot.




karl "the pedophile" ****ing malone :oldlol:
Was Kobe's comp really that much better in '09 & '10 than what Jordan was facing?

[red1]

What was wrong with Jordan's competition? He faced some of the greatest bigs, overall TEAM defenses and a number of 60-win teams in the playoffs.

I've grown to like and appreciate Kobe. But he wasn't winning 6 in Jordan's place. He was an inferior player even with arguably more skill.

Im trolling 3ball who clings onto the 6/6 record as the only thing he has, when in reality we know that it is a team sport.


and YES competition and team health plays a huge role in that because all of his arguments dissolve on the spot when you consider that piece of common sense. MJ's finals record would NOT be 6/6 if he played the 2017/18 warriors, or the spurs that shaq and kobe went up against aka the REAL nba finals. and I'd bet my life savings on that - and I'd win.

[red1]

Was Kobe's comp really that much better in '09 & '10 than what Jordan was facing?

2010 is very respectable, 2009 though was an almost MJ-like year.


weak like MJ and his competition.

[Uncle Drew]

This thread reads like an autopsy of a person who's still alive. Poor 3ball, poor superduper.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Im trolling 3ball who clings onto the 6/6 record as the only thing he has, when in reality we know that it is a team sport.


and YES competition and team health plays a huge role in that because all of his arguments dissolve on the spot when you consider that piece of common sense. MJ's finals record would NOT be 6/6 if he played the 2017/18 warriors, or the spurs that shaq and kobe went up against aka the REAL nba finals. and I'd bet my life savings on that - and I'd win.

Disagree with those Spurs teams. They were beatable and built like the 97-98 Utah clubs.

GSW? Yeah alright. I'll give you that. The 2018 team looked vulnerable though. Not saying Jordan and his Bulls would BEAT them, but imo his squad would've fared better.

If you threw a 1992 or 1996 Bulls team into a 7 game series, today, vs those Warriors? Mike's Bulls would have LOVED the no contact rules. Ditto with the spacing. Obviously Curry/Durant/Klay would still be snipers, and that would look "foreign" to Chicago. Depending on the rules though there are conditions that would be advantageous for Chicago.

[red1]

Disagree with those Spurs teams. They were beatable and built like the 97-98 Utah clubs.

GSW? Yeah alright. I'll give you that. The 2018 team looked vulnerable though. Not saying Jordan and his Bulls would BEAT them, but imo his squad would've fared better.

If you threw a 1992 or 1996 Bulls team into a 7 game series, today, vs those Warriors? Mike's Bulls would have LOVED the no contact rules. Ditto with the spacing. Obviously Curry/Durant/Klay would still be snipers, and that would look "foreign" to Chicago. Depending on the rules though there are conditions that would be advantageous for Chicago.

I would take the warriors over the bulls any day because even though MJ>kd curry and klay their overall system is extremely hard to beat - ask the rockets and the cavs. when you have those 3 shooters on the court plus good passers and defenders in draymond and iggy - that team is going to win 90% of the time because it means you have guys like steph and klay taking WIDE open shots and that obviously is a recipe for disaster.


all of 3balls arguments are just "lebron is 5-15 vs the spurs" "mj 6/6" "lebron lost to dallas" "mj always won"




its like no - what about the context? in context the feats are still extremely impressive especially MJ's raw SKILL - but its not some all-time "MJ beat goliath every year and every other star choked in the playoffs" like this 3ball retard tries to promote.

in fact - in reality - the gap between MJ and lebron is VERY VERY small - and it might actually go the other way...

[SouBeachTalents]

Im trolling 3ball who clings onto the 6/6 record as the only thing he has, when in reality we know that it is a team sport.


and YES competition and team health plays a huge role in that because all of his arguments dissolve on the spot when you consider that piece of common sense. MJ's finals record would NOT be 6/6 if he played the 2017/18 warriors, or the spurs that shaq and kobe went up against aka the REAL nba finals. and I'd bet my life savings on that - and I'd win.
Nah bro, Jordan's going 9/9 in LeBron's place. He's definitely beating the dynasty Spurs with that poverty '07 team, winning the Finals with his two best teammates missing the series, and defeating the Durant/Curry Warriors with ease.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I would take the warriors over the bulls any day because even though MJ>kd curry and klay their overall system is extremely hard to beat - ask the rockets and the cavs. when you have those 3 shooters on the court plus good passers and defenders in draymond and iggy - that team is going to win 90% of the time because it means you have guys like steph and klay taking WIDE open shots and that obviously is a recipe for disaster.

Well nobody knows for sure, but you're right in that GSW would be favored. By most rational fans.


all of 3balls arguments are just "lebron is 5-15 vs the spurs" "mj 6/6" "lebron lost to dallas" "mj always won"

its like no - what about the context? in context the feats are still extremely impressive especially MJ's raw SKILL - but its not some all-time "MJ beat goliath every year and every other star choked in the playoffs" like this 3ball retard tries to promote.

in fact - in reality - the gap between MJ and lebron is VERY VERY small - and it might actually go the other way...

3ball is what I call a Youtube-era Jordan fan. One of those Johnny Come Lately millennials who only watch highlights. I doubt he ever saw Jordan live. If he did it was probably Wizards Jordan. Would make sense too. Like, anyone who bothers reading his posts you'll notice instantly that he's always wrong. You'll get random stats. Maybe a "good point" every now and then. Most of his posts are rubbish though. They read like a tryhard who you KNOW doesn't understand what they're talking about. Bottom line, 3ball is either a troll or someone with a severe learning disability.

[dreamshake]

LeBron actually became the all time leader in turnovers if you include playoffs, which a lot of these threads tend to do

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?474611-LeBron-closing-in-on-the-record

Though man, from the time that thread was created to now, everything was turned utterly on its head. Who could’ve predicted Kobe’s death, Coronavirus suspending the season etc. Crazy

Thanks for the additional information. LeBron by far ahead of everyone in the turnover department. What an ugly stat to be a leader in. Nothing's worse than a turnover. With a missed shot, at least your team still has a chance at an offensive rebound.

It really puts context into the numbers Lebron puts up with his abnormally high usage. Suddenly those triple double games don't look so impressive when they come along with 8, 9, 10 turnovers.

Lots of stans triggered in here. I love it.

[red1]

Nah bro, Jordan's going 9/9 in LeBron's place. He's definitely beating the dynasty Spurs with that poverty '07 team, winning the Finals with his two best teammates missing the series, and defeating the Durant/Curry Warriors with ease.

dude no joke I'd literally put my money on lebron if he went up against MJ's team - Im playing with fire because there is a very good chance MJ gets that dagger like only he could - theres an equal chance lebron gets that play to win the game, the block/steal/shot/dunk/assist etc etc



very different type of player pound for pound prime lbj is right there - 3ball has absolutely convinced me with his insecurity and irrationality. I have MJ over lebron purely because of MJs godly ability to create his own shot - now I think lebrons overall athleticism can equalize that.

[red1]

Well nobody knows for sure, but you're right in that GSW would be favored. By most rational fans.



3ball is what I call a Youtube-era Jordan fan. One of those Johnny Come Lately millennials who only watch highlights. I doubt he ever saw Jordan live. If he did it was probably Wizards Jordan. Would make sense too. Like, anyone who bothers reading his posts you'll notice instantly that he's always wrong. You'll get random stats. Maybe a "good point" every now and then. Most of his posts are rubbish though. They read like a tryhard who you KNOW doesn't understand what they're talking about. Bottom line, 3ball is either a troll or someone with a severe learning disability.

you're absolutely right. he's a pajama wearing fan. on that level of stan. I know Im a huge raptors fan and also a huge lbj fan because of the many hours of epic entertainment they've given me - Ive also met a couple of celebrities in real life and Ive always respected their space/ got a photo without being a groupie. because my dignity comes first - Im good at my own life.


3ball is the type of guy with no dignity. a complete embarrassing groupie. thats the best way I can explain it.

[superduper]

Branturds can't process the fact that their precious stats are turning against them. Imagine tearing down one of the best scorers in history because of his FGA but then putting your fingers in your ears screaming LALALALALA when Bran's suboptimal style gets exposed to the tune of shattering the record for most turnovers in NBA history.

Uhh UHHH its fine because it's Bran!! :oldlol:

[deathawaitu]

Rank Player TOV
1. Karl Malone* 4524
2. LeBron James 4402
3. Moses Malone* 4264
4. John Stockton* 4244
5. Kobe Bryant 4010
6. Jason Kidd* 4003
7. Julius Erving* 3940
8. Artis Gilmore* 3926
9. Isiah Thomas* 3682
10. Hakeem Olajuwon* 3667
11. Russell Westbrook 3562

LeBron on pace to become the all time leader in turnovers before it's all said and done. What a feat.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/tov_career.html

Finally Lebron might be the GOAT in something. We are witnessing greatest turnover king before our eyes

[red1]

Finally Lebron might be the GOAT in something. We are witnessing greatest turnover king before our eyes

speak english bitch. :oldlol:

[deathawaitu]

speak english bitch. :oldlol:

Why you mad kiddo? You might want to take your own advice :oldlol:

There's a reason why you are still flipping burgers :lol

[LostCause]

MJ doesn't even have a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio :oldlol:

He would absolutely smash the turnover record if he was forced to be the primary playmaker on his team like LeBron

Except he wouldn't. Get those hypotheticals outta here

Fact is MJ was one of the GOATs at NOT turning the ball over. The entire Bulls offense as a whole consistently ranked near the lowest when Jordan played because of his presence.

Jordan's assist to turnover ratio is 1.9, which rounds to 2. Which means 2 assists per turnover but I'm sure you knew that and are just being a moron as per usual

[FireDavidKahn]

Except he wouldn't. Get those hypotheticals outta here

Fact is MJ was one of the GOATs at NOT turning the ball over. The entire Bulls offense as a whole consistently ranked near the lowest when Jordan played because of his presence.

Jordan's assist to turnover ratio is 1.9, which rounds to 2. Which means 2 assists per turnover but I'm sure you knew that and are just being a moron as per usual

5633 / 2924 = 1.9264

That rounds to 1.93.

1.93 doesn't round to 2.

You're welcome for the lesson.

[FireDavidKahn]

ANd of course MJ has less turnovers, he was too busy on hunting PPG and not helping his teammates. Guy barely passed compared to LeBron.

[LostCause]

5633 / 2924 = 1.9264

That rounds to 1.93.

1.93 doesn't round to 2.

You're welcome for the lesson.

It rounds to 2. Just like a guy averaging 9.936 rebounds and trying to disparage him for not averaging 10. It will simply be rounded to averaging 10 rebounds

To put it in context, this means MJ's numbers will be relatively even with a 2:1 a/to ratio. There's no major distinction to speak of, especially not one that can disparage him


ANd of course MJ has less turnovers, he was too busy on hunting PPG and not helping his teammates. Guy barely passed compared to LeBron.
Let's not try to downplay anything here, he was exceptional at not turning the ball over, period. Turnovers aren't only the result of errant passes, btw, so that point isn't strong to begin with

From the Backpicks page:

Driving the Bulls improvement at the end of ’89 was a major upgrade in turnover percentage. Chicago’s rate dropped from average (14.7 percent) to an elite 12.9 percent (which would have been fourth that year) because Jordan himself was one of the lowest turnover centerpieces ever. Among the Big 4 box dimensions — scoring rate, efficiency relative to league average (rTS), box creation and adjusted turnover percentage — Jordan stands above the pack. He is the only player with three-year averages in all of those categories above the 85th percentile historically

Jordan’s heavy load and ball-security helped Chicago finish in the top-five in turnover percentage in each of its six championship seasons, placing first four times. But without him in ’94 and ’95, the Bulls finished 16th and 15th, respectively. His impact on team giveaways was a byproduct of his high usage and quick, decisive actions discussed in the scouting report.

Claiming he would've led the all-time turnover list with a "bigger role" just shows how idiotic some of you guys are.

[Da_Realist]

dude no joke I'd literally put my money on lebron if he went up against MJ's team - Im playing with fire because there is a very good chance MJ gets that dagger like only he could - theres an equal chance lebron gets that play to win the game, the block/steal/shot/dunk/assist etc etc



very different type of player pound for pound prime lbj is right there - 3ball has absolutely convinced me with his insecurity and irrationality. I have MJ over lebron purely because of MJs godly ability to create his own shot - now I think lebrons overall athleticism can equalize that.

You'd lose everything betting on BetaBron to beat MJ in a seven game series. He wouldn't be able to breathe with MJ, Scottie and Grant/Rodman hounding him all game.

[TheCorporation]

5633 / 2924 = 1.9264

That rounds to 1.93.

1.93 doesn't round to 2.

You're welcome for the lesson.

Game set match

[BallsOut]

Rank Player TOV
1. Karl Malone* 4524
2. LeBron James 4402
3. Moses Malone* 4264
4. John Stockton* 4244
5. Kobe Bryant 4010
6. Jason Kidd* 4003
7. Julius Erving* 3940
8. Artis Gilmore* 3926
9. Isiah Thomas* 3682
10. Hakeem Olajuwon* 3667
11. Russell Westbrook 3562

LeBron on pace to become the all time leader in turnovers before it's all said and done. What a feat.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/tov_career.html

List needs to be updated. LeBron now has all time leading turnovers