Players with four or more NBA Finals Losses

[dreamshake]

Arguably the 5 greatest chokers in NBA Finals history.

1. Jerry West - 8 Finals Losses
2. Elgin Baylor - 8 Finals Losses
3. LeBron James - 6 Finals Losses
4. Larry Foust - 5 Finals Losses
5. Wilt Chamberlain - 4 Finals Losses

[TheCorporation]

Players with 6,000 or more playoff points

1st. LeBron James

That's it.

[DoctorP]

somehow point and point 2 are related. but how?


points first...losses... one of the worst...hmm...

[Axe]

somehow point and point 2 are related. but how?


points first...losses... one of the worst...hmm...
Diehard fanboys will always be diehard fanboys. They wouldn't admit or can't accept the shortcomings of their fave idol. So they'd go around in this forum just to taint threads with their ridiculous fanboyism and arguments. At first, it seems fascinating or intriguing but as time goes by, it only becomes an eyesore and boring at the same time.

Btt, why is James Jones not in this list? That guy also lost 4 finals during his whole career although I'm not sure if he even played in all those four series.

[Stanley Kobrick]

bran stans doing hand stands :lol

[Kblaze8855]

The only finals Jerry West sucked in is the one he won. But the obvious issue that raises is apparently too tough for some to get their heads around.

[DoctorP]

bran stans doing hand stands :lol


https://media1.tenor.com/images/1d80a1cb06b9ecd6609a77f929b7e7f0/tenor.gif

[LAmbruh]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/1d80a1cb06b9ecd6609a77f929b7e7f0/tenor.gif

Bran stans avoiding this thread like a corona vaccine :lol

[DoctorP]

Bran stans avoiding this thread like a corona vaccine :lol

branstans doing handstands.

[LAmbruh]

branstans doing handstands.

60" flatscreen, damn son
Circuit City, samsung

[Stanley Kobrick]

Bran stans avoiding this thread like a corona vaccine :lol
:cheers:

[DoctorP]

60" flatscreen, damn son
Circuit City, samsung

is Circuit City still around over there tho?
what about cheese on that corona tho?

[LAmbruh]

is Circuit City still around over there tho?
what about cheese on that corona tho?

fun fact: Corona, CA is one of worlds biggest cheese producers

[superduper]

Bran is definitely a loser despite MULTIPLE shameless teamhops and attempts to stack the deck and rig the game.

Can someone please show me his empty stats to make me feel better?

[Stanley Kobrick]

Bran is definitely a loser despite MULTIPLE shameless teamhops and attempts to stack the deck and rig the game.

Can someone please show me his empty stats to make me feel better?
Bran stans think basketball is played on MS Paint :lol

[dreamshake]

bran stans doing hand stands :lol


:roll::roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

Imagine actually calling Jerry West a Finals choker :oldlol: I bet you can't even find me 5 players who were better in the Finals than he was

[Hey Yo]

Arguably the 5 greatest chokers in NBA Finals history.

1. Jerry West - 8 Finals Losses
2. Elgin Baylor - 8 Finals Losses
3. LeBron James - 6 Finals Losses
4. Larry Foust - 5 Finals Losses
5. Wilt Chamberlain - 4 Finals Losses
5. Tragic Johnson - 4 Finals Losses

[Gas80]

Arguably the 5 greatest chokers in NBA Finals history.

1. Jerry West - 8 Finals Losses
2. Elgin Baylor - 8 Finals Losses
3. LeBron James - 6 Finals Losses
4. Larry Foust - 5 Finals Losses
5. Wilt Chamberlain - 4 Finals Losses


Players with 6,000 or more playoff points

1st. LeBron James

That's it.


Definition of empty stats right there

[Horatio33]

Arguably the 5 greatest chokers in NBA Finals history.

1. Jerry West - 8 Finals Losses
2. Elgin Baylor - 8 Finals Losses
3. LeBron James - 6 Finals Losses
4. Larry Foust - 5 Finals Losses
5. Wilt Chamberlain - 4 Finals Losses

Magic Johnson 4 finals losses.

[jlip]

Magic Johnson 4 finals losses.

Kareem too

[DoctorP]

Kareem too

the original balding Laker

[Axe]

James Worthless? 4 finals losses. 😹

[dreamshake]

Bran is definitely a loser despite MULTIPLE shameless teamhops and attempts to stack the deck and rig the game.

Can someone please show me his empty stats to make me feel better?

3 rings in 18 seasons. Had 9 opportunities. Got the job done a third of the time.

[red1]

carrying the cleveland cavs to multipe finals appearances is equivalent to multiple rings.



lebrons adjusted ring count is closer to 5-6 rings with that in mind.

[dreamshake]

We got dudes here talking about adjusted rings. Like that changes real life or something. Keep reaching bruh.

[Axe]

3 rings in 18 seasons. Had 9 opportunities. Got the job done a third of the time.
Got swept twice in the finals because "he didn't have help so he had to carry the whole team by himself", which happened 2 and 13 years ago.

[red1]

LOL keep crying kids. you'll be alright. :oldlol:

[Axe]

Once he goes to retirement, the golden state warriors should be very grateful towards lebron james for allowing them to build a renowned dynasty that would last five years between 2015-19, as well as for establishing a new potential rivalry in the league that resulted into four straight finals meetings with the cleveland cavaliers. He would be very much remembered in the dubs club for that big legacy that he left behind when he returned to cleveland six years ago.

[red1]

Once he goes to retirement, the golden state warriors should be very grateful towards lebron james for allowing them to build a renowned dynasty that would last five years between 2015-19, as well as for establishing a new potential rivalry in the league that resulted into four straight finals meetings with the cleveland cavaliers. He would be very much remembered in the dubs club for that big legacy that he left behind when he returned to cleveland six years ago.

my boy bronny won that ring and my raps won that ring over the dubs. thats despite draymonds tearful calls to kd in the parking lot. :oldlol:

[Axe]

my boy bronny won that ring and my raps won that ring over the dubs. thats despite draymonds tearful calls to kd in the parking lot. :oldlol:
Who cares? 😹

[red1]

Who cares? ��

you clearly do bitch. because all you keep responding. :oldlol:

[Axe]

you clearly do bitch. because all you keep responding. :oldlol:
But did i ask for your opinion earlier though?

[red1]

But did i ask for your opinion earlier though?

Im just talking trash to you the same way you were talking trash - its all in fun :oldlol:

[Turbo Slayer]

Hot take. LeBron is NOT a choker. False ass narrative.

[3ball]

Hot take. LeBron is NOT a choker. False ass narrative.
His performance was atrocious/choked in 07' and 11' - it only takes 1 or 2 instances to be labeled choker and Lebron has those instances.. in addition to 07' and 11', Lebron also quit in 10' and has many instances of passing in the clutch to teammates that miss - that's another form of choking as MJ's teammates never missed when MJ passed to them fir the last shot (MJ always felt the game and made the right decision; his fearlessness was also contagious and teammates were more open because he got doubled/was expected to shoot more)

Hope that helps

Also, Lebron is less clutch - down the stretch of tight games (last 5 within 5), Lebron is 41% on 3.0 attempts per game for his career, compared to 47% on 3.6 attempts for old MJ in 97' and 98'

[Naero]

Most of LeBron's Finals losses are just a byproduct of the conference disparity: he and his teams have usually been good enough to batten on a historically weak East yet substandard enough to inevitably lose against a Western powerhouse in the end.

2007, 2014, 2015 (at least with Irving and Love hobbled), and 2018 are all years you can safely conclude he wouldn't even knock on the door of the Finals in level-fielded conferences. He's 3-2 for the years he actually had a Finals-level team (granted, very fortunate not to be 2/5 when contextualizing 2013).

All in all, the Finals losses aren't a negative on his legacy apart from his underperformances on the biggest stage (namely 2007 and 2011); they just undercut how much of a positive they could actually be. For every plaudit LeBron gets for those appearances, they'll have the same concessive clause: "But he lost most of them and had weak competition on the way."

[red1]

jordan without pippen:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/US_1-9.svg/750px-US_1-9.svg.png

[red1]

Madonna Turned Down Michael Jordan For ‘Bigger’ Scottie Pippen

https://www.uluckysob.com/2019/04/30/madonna-turned-down-michael-jordan-for-bigger-scottie-pippen/
https://blacksportsonline.com/2019/12/how-michael-jordan-was-jealous-that-scottie-pippen-got-better-groupies-than-him-on-the-road-how-mj-tried-steal-madonna-from-pip-by-stabbing-him-in-back-but-failed-miserably-when-madonna-said-this-p/

[FireDavidKahn]

Most of LeBron's Finals losses are just a byproduct of the conference disparity: he and his teams have usually been good enough to batten on a historically weak East yet substandard enough to inevitably lose against a Western powerhouse in the end.

2007, 2014, 2015 (at least with Irving and Love hobbled), and 2018 are all years you can safely conclude he wouldn't even knock on the door of the Finals in level-fielded conferences, and those pre-Finals losses would somehow be considered less inglorious. He's 3-2 for the years he actually had a Finals-level team (granted, very fortunate not to be 2/5 when contextualizing 2013).

All in all, the Finals losses aren't a negative on his legacy apart from his underperformances on the biggest stage (namely 2007 and 2011); they just undercut how much of a positive they could actually be. For every plaudit LeBron gets for those appearances, they'll have the same concessive clause: "But he lost most of them and beat weak competition en route to them."

People who even bring up 2007 are out of their minds.

LeBron
Gibson
Pavlovic
Gooden
Ilgauskas (horrendous in the Finals)

vs.

Prime Parker
Bowen
Slightly past prime Duncan
Just entering his prime Ginobli
Horry

There is no single person in NBA history that would win a 7 game series with that squad vs. the Spurs he faced.

[red1]

People who even bring up 2007 are out of their minds.

LeBron
Gibson
Pavlovic
Gooden
Ilgauskas (horrendous in the Finals)

vs.

Prime Parker
Bowen
Slightly past prime Duncan
Just entering his prime Ginobli
Horry

There is no single person in NBA history that would win a 7 game series with that squad vs. the Spurs he faced.
lebron is 1-0 vs duncan for finals MVPs - that includes 2007 lebron at 22 and the 2014 heat that got smoked :oldlol:


the spurs were definitely better than the cavs though - thats an undeniable fact. great franchise. :applause:

[3ball]

People who even bring up 2007 are out of their minds.

LeBron
Gibson
Pavlovic
Gooden
Ilgauskas (horrendous in the Finals)

vs.

Prime Parker
Bowen
Slightly past prime Duncan
Just entering his prime Ginobli
Horry

There is no single person in NBA history that would win a 7 game series with that squad vs. the Spurs he faced.
Lebron averaged 22 on 36%

Playing horrifically on the big stage is always a black mark

Lebron did it again in 2008 (26 on 35% vs Celts) - only Mike Brown's great defense allowed the Cavs to go 7 games with Lebron so bad offensively

[Axe]

Most of LeBron's Finals losses are just a byproduct of the conference disparity: he and his teams have usually been good enough to batten on a historically weak East yet substandard enough to inevitably lose against a Western powerhouse in the end.

2007, 2014, 2015 (at least with Irving and Love hobbled), and 2018 are all years you can safely conclude he wouldn't even knock on the door of the Finals in level-fielded conferences. He's 3-2 for the years he actually had a Finals-level team (granted, very fortunate not to be 2/5 when contextualizing 2013).

All in all, the Finals losses aren't a negative on his legacy apart from his underperformances on the biggest stage (namely 2007 and 2011); they just undercut how much of a positive they could actually be. For every plaudit LeBron gets for those appearances, they'll have the same concessive clause: "But he lost most of them and had weak competition on the way."
Lebron only built himself a dynasty in the east with different role players on two different teams in the 2010s but it wasn't enough to outlast even half of the clubs from the opposite conference that he faced in the finals.

[red1]

got that main finals MVP. this is the one counts - brought it home to cleveland despite their garbage early years. great job cavs front office spending the money to get that all-important chip.


https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/gazette.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/a1/ba1dadfa-0fc8-5099-9e0c-ee216a152eb2/5b3954bcbc0a7.image.jpg

[3ball]

2014 is a knock on his legacy

Spurs won via better brand of ball/teamwork, not talent (which was even, along with the odds)

So inferior teamwork is on Lebron and his renowned poor fit with Wade and Bosh

Ultimately, MJ averaged 41 to 3-peat, or 13 more than 14' Lebron, the margin of defeat to the Spurs

[FireDavidKahn]

Lebron averaged 22 on 36%

Playing horrifically on the big stage is always a black mark

Lebron did it again in 2008 (26 on 35% vs Celts) - only Mike Brown's great defense allowed the Cavs to go 7 games with Lebron so bad offensively

Miracle he even averaged 22 when literally the entire SPurs team could focus on LeBron.

Bowen played the most minutes and was glued onto LeBron the entire time plus he was doubled and tripled the whole series. You think the Spurs were worried that Gibson or Pavlovic or Gooden were going to beat them?:roll:

[red1]

2014 is a knock on his legacy

Spurs won via better brand of ball/teamwork, not talent (which was even, along with the odds)

So inferior teamwork is on Lebron and his renowned poor fit with Wade and Bosh

you obviously didnt watch the series. the spurs weren't going to be denied that year - its not like lebron had pippen to help him defend all of the scorching hot shooters. instead he had my boy wade who looked like he was missing both meniscus, not just one.






no pip?



no chip?

[FireDavidKahn]

2014 is a knock on his legacy

Spurs won via better brand of ball/teamwork, not talent (which was even, along with the odds)

So inferior teamwork is on Lebron and his renowned poor fit with Wade and Bosh

Ultimately, MJ averaged 41 to 3-peat, or 13 more than 14' Lebron, the margin of defeat to the Spurs

28.2 ppg on 57.1%/51.9%/79.3%
7.8 rpg
4 rpg
2 spg

second lowest DRTG.
22.5 game score (more then doubled the next highest in Bosh @ 10.6), highest for the Spurs was 15.8


"LeBron lost that series.":roll:

[3ball]

you obviously didnt watch the series. the spurs weren't going to be denied that year - its not like lebron had pippen to help him defend all of the scorching hot shooters. instead he had my boy wade who looked like he was missing both meniscus, not just one.






no pip?



no chip?

^^^ Wtf are you whining about?.. Why wasn't Lebron's team the one that wasn't going to be denied and the one dominating?

The reality is that teams don't randomly get hot for three straight games

That only happens when a team is fresh/not worn down, and playing the superior brand - Lebron's long dribbling doesn't wear teams down like the ball movement it faces at the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off.. A tired, on-their heels, or confused defense won't go off on offense, but a fresh confident defense will - Lebron-ball simply loses the attrition battle on the championship level - all 6 Finals losses occurred where the opponent won the last 3 games going away (figured out bron-ball)

[red1]

^^^ Wtf are you whining about?.. Why wasn't Lebron's team the one that wasn't going to be denied and the one dominating?

The reality is that teams don't randomly get hot for three straight games

That only happens when a team is fresh/not worn down, and playing the superior brand - Lebron's long dribbling doesn't wear teams down like the ball movement it faces at the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off.. A tired, on-their heels, or confused defense won't go off on offense, but a fresh confident defense will - Lebron-ball simply loses the attrition battle on the championship level - all 6 Finals losses occurred where the opponent won the last 3 games going away (figured out bron-ball)

dude I actually like the argument of the attrition battle. I also think there's a lot of truth to "willing" your team to victory.


its just a damn shame that MJ NEVER did any of that without the best team on his side. NEVER did that without scottie pippen aka the best perimeter defender in the league not named jordan.


what a strange coincidence. if I wasnt crazy I'd even believe you when you say he went 1-9 without that scott pipp guy.

[red1]

watching jordan on that 2014 heat team vs the spurs would've been pure comedy. kid would've had so many shots drilled in his face 3ball would be crying saying "not like this" :oldlol:

[3ball]

dude I actually like the argument of the attrition battle. I also think there's a lot of truth to "willing" your team to victory.


its just a damn shame that MJ NEVER did any of that without the best team on his side. NEVER did that without scottie pippen aka the best perimeter defender in the league not named jordan.


what a strange coincidence. if I wasnt crazy I'd even believe you when you say he went 1-9 without that scott pipp guy.
The Pistons had 3x all-stars at every starting spot while MJ only had 1 all-star - they were a more talented dynasty that MJ overcame in 1991 when they were favored to 3-peat

Also, MJ's underdog 6 seed beat the #1 SRS team in 1989 and almost made the Finals, before Phil was coach - so Phil was a 1st time, nobody coach that inherited a goat candidate already on the cusp of the Finals.. Ultimately, MJ that made Phil, who never won a ring without MJ or his clone

[Turbo Slayer]

This is the video regarding the 2014 Finals. Amazing stuff.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1ANov-Ogvg

[red1]

3ball you're just lucky that all of your garbage takes over the years have been deleted. I take great pleasure in shitting on you. :oldlol:

[Axe]

The Pistons had 3x all-stars at every starting spot while MJ only had 1 all-star - they were a more talented dynasty that MJ overcame in 1991 when they were favored to 3-peat

Also, MJ's underdog 6 seed beat the #1 SRS team in 1989 and almost made the Finals, before Phil was coach - so Phil was a 1st time, nobody coach that inherited a goat candidate already on the cusp of the Finals.. Ultimately, MJ that made Phil, who never won a ring without MJ or his clone
The implementation of the flagrant foul in the 90s may have helped defied the pistons of their rough, aggressive and dirty plays until that club broke up and wallowed in mediocrity. Therefore, the bulls started to gain the opportunity to dominate the east and never looked back while they were in for their own title runs.

[3ball]

nah we're not using logic or reason here we're being irrational "first team lost to diwight - Mickail jordan never lost to a team as the furst"


****ing idiot from the start, you just proved every point for me. lebron CARRIED that garbage cast to a record that made them look better than they were.


what have delonte west and mo williams done in the league since then? :oldlol:
Lebron's cast wasn't weak for that conference

Lebron's 2 fringe all-stars lost to Dwight's 1 fringe all-star

So both had weak casts, and Dwight won with his, while Lebron lost

[Turbo Slayer]

The Spurs posted an INSANE 120.8 ORtg for the series compared to 91.6 ORtg for the Heat.

The series was never even close. The Heat got blown out in the last 3 games. Damn. A testament to how the Spurs were one of the greatest teams of all-time. :applause:

[sdot_thadon]

That season Miami was coming off 3 straight finals runs, which conveniently is the absolute limit for Mj teams which normally required him retiring and the teams being completely broken up afterwards.....

Miami also dealt with Wade being injured for a chunk of the season which was also customary by this point, Lebron had a pretty good season offensively that year, not so much defensively. He wasn't terrible but he wasn't the terror he had been the previous few seasons. The heat's team defensive strategy as a whole was never going to be sustainable with the crazy switching rotations to cover shooters. And that 4th season it showed as guys didn't quite make it to shooters the same way the heat were known for. It worked great for 2 titles, but a team like the spurs realized how to use it against them with passing and did so. The end.

[red1]

Lebron's cast wasn't weak for that conference

Ultimately, Lebron's 2 fringe all-stars lost to Dwight's 1 fringe all-star

So both had weak casts, and Dwight won with his,c
while Lebron lost

but WHY? isnt that the question?



WHY did that happen?




I believe you argued extensively that the 09 cavs cast (and '10 cavs cast) was comparable to the first AND second CHAMPIONSHIP threepeat bulls. so mo and varejao equal to pippen/grant or rodman/ kukoc etc the rest of the boys


do you still feel this way?

[3ball]

The implementation of the flagrant foul in the 90s may have helped defied the pistons of their rough, aggressive and dirty plays until that club broke up and wallowed in mediocrity. Therefore, the bulls started to gain the opportunity to dominate the east and never looked back while they were in for their own title runs.
If Pippen hadn't been such a tool, the bulls would've won in 1990 - he cost the Bulls a 4-peat (90-93')

(and he almost cost them a 3-peat in the 93' playoffs with worse production than 14' Wade (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?478580-Comparing-sidekick-help-while-trying-to-3-peat-14-Wade-vs-93-Pippen), and also 98' by missing half the season and then disappearing at the end of the Finals)

[red1]

That season Miami was coming off 3 straight finals runs, which conveniently is the absolute limit for Mj teams which normally required him retiring and the teams being completely broken up afterwards.....

Miami also dealt with Wade being injured for a chunk of the season which was also customary by this point, Lebron had a pretty good season offensively that year, not so much defensively. He wasn't terrible but he wasn't the terror he had been the previous few seasons. The heat's team defensive strategy as a whole was never going to be sustainable with the crazy switching rotations to cover shooters. And that 4th season it showed as guys didn't quite make it to shooters the same way the heat were known for. It worked great for 2 titles, but a team like the spurs realized how to use it against them with passing and did so. The end.

I've already destroyed every argument of 3balls in the past - it was VERY EASY because his claim is that lebron isnt even top-10 or top-15. he's already been proven wrong that bron-ball cant win. :oldlol:


at this point we're just slapping him around for fun because its already been settled. according to 3ball every single player in NBA history is garbage, except MJ and lebrons competition. and then he turns on his competition immediately after lebron wins. :oldlol:

[3ball]

.
MJ three-peated with a lesser-producing sidekick than 14' Lebron had:


Per 100 Possessions - Playoffs

14' Wade..... 28.6 pts.. 6.2 ast.. 56.0 ts.. 106 ortg.. 18.5 PER.. 0.086 ws/48.. 1.6 obpm
93' Pippen... 26.2 pts.. 7.4 ast.. 50.0 ts.. 102 ortg.. 16.9 PER.. 0.083 ws/48.. 1.1 obpm


So why the excuses for Lebron?..

People complain about 13-14' Wade only because he'd been reduced to prime Pippen numbers - so when I complain about Pippen, think about 13/14 Wade and you'll understand

[red1]

.
MJ three-peated with a lesser-producing sidekick than 14' Lebron had:


Per 100 Possessions - Playoffs

14' Wade..... 28.6 pts.. 6.2 ast.. 56.0 ts.. 106 ortg.. 18.5 PER.. 0.086 ws/48.. 1.6 obpm
93' Pippen... 26.2 pts.. 7.4 ast.. 50.0 ts.. 102 ortg.. 16.9 PER.. 0.083 ws/48.. 1.1 obpm


So why the excuses for Lebron?.. People complain about 13-14' Wade only because he'd been reduced to prime Pippen numbers

what happened without scottie "tree-trunk" pippen?

[sdot_thadon]

I've already destroyed every argument of 3balls in the past - it was VERY EASY because his claim is that lebron isnt even top-10 or top-15. he's already been proven wrong that bron-ball cant win. :oldlol:


at this point we're just slapping him around for fun because its already been settled. according to 3ball every single player in NBA history is garbage, except MJ and lebrons competition. and then he turns on his competition immediately after lebron wins. :oldlol:

I know, maybe its time for him to retire and come back with the wizards in a few years lol.

[3ball]

what happened without pip?
Same thing that happened without a 3rd star for Lebron, or before Hughes and Brown arrived

Ultimately, 7 guys were all-stars next to Lebron (15 appearances) = only 3/17 ring frequency

Otoh, MJ's lone all star teammate (6 appearances) = 6/6 and the goat modern ring frequency (6/15)

[red1]

I know, maybe its time for him to retire and come back with the wizards in a few years lol.

ahaha I hate to say it but theres no retiring this guy. he's too in love with MJs stats, that 6/6 finals record. he'll be slandering every player in NBA history until he passes.

[FireDavidKahn]

MJ didn't have "all-stars" because he prevented them from getting stats. We saw what happened when Scottie "team ball" Pippen was leading. Immediately the Bulls had 3 all-stars

[ImKobe]

Incredible to think that Lebron needed two bailout wins just to go 3/9, while the 6 losses were one-sided with the 2014, 2017 & 2018 ones being the worst ass-whoopings in league history.

[HylianNightmare]

Larry faust?

[red1]

Same thing that happened without a 3rd star for Lebron, or before Hughes and Brown arrived

Ultimately, 7 guys were all-stars next to Lebron (15 appearances) = only 3/17 ring frequency

Otoh, MJ's lone all star teammate (6 appearances) = 6/6 and the goat modern ring frequency (6/15)

great, lets hear more about larry hughes and mike brown's many successes :oldlol:

[red1]

Larry faust?

:oldlol:

[3ball]

great, lets hear more about larry hughes and mike brown's many successes :oldlol:
Brown should have 2 Finals runs in 2009 and 2010 but Lebron lost as the league favorite both years - he's the only guy to lose twice in a row with 60-win, 1 seeds - aka goat choker

[Axe]

Brown should have 2 Finals runs in 2009 and 2010 but Lebron lost as the league favorite both years - he's the only guy to lose twice in a row with 60-win, 1 seeds - aka goat choker
Intriguing. In those years, he and his team had homecourt advantage throughout the playoffs, unlike the four eastern conference championship he had in four straight years (2015-18) when he came back to his original team.

It also just disappoints me that he never had at least a 60-win season anymore since 2013, because having them can give people impression that he's truly serious about winning games. Or is it their coach's problem that they're not dominant in the regular season as they should be?

[red1]

Brown should have 2 Finals runs in 2009 and 2010 but Lebron lost as the league favorite both years - he's the only guy to lose twice in a row with 60-win, 1 seeds - aka goat choker

agreed. you're absolutely right - michael jordan is not 1 for 9 and pippen absolutely WOULD NOT have helped the incredible first seed mo williams and delonte west teams.

[red1]

guys remember the time michael jordan won the chip with mo williams and delonte west? that time that he DIDNT have scottie and DIDNT go 1 for 9?

[dreamshake]

Nope but I do remember the time LeBron got his shit pushed in by Barea, Terry and a guy with a porn mustache. Screwed Wade out of a finals MVP.

[dreamshake]

Dominant in the regular season but come up short in the finals.

[ImKobe]

Dominant in the regular season but come up short in the finals.

Tbh I think his career is boosted by the number of Finals appearances, you see people use that to say he got there all those years in a row but completely neglect the colluding and the fact that all the real contenders were out West. Imagine him going up against the Spurs or Thunder in the Conference Finals instead of the 49-win Pacers, Al Horford-led Hawks, Derozan-led Raptors or IT/Rookie Tatum-led Celtics :kobe: .

[Smoke117]

Tbh I think his career is boosted by the number of Finals appearances, you see people use that to say he got there all those years in a row but completely neglect the colluding and the fact that all the real contenders were out West. Imagine him going up against the Spurs or Thunder in the Conference Finals instead of the 49-win Pacers, Al Horford-led Hawks, Derozan-led Raptors or IT/Rookie Tatum-led Celtics :kobe: .

You are just embarrassing. None of your nonsense and bullshit is ever going to make Kobe all time over LeBron. The funniest thing is that ship sailed YEARS ago when Kobe was still playing well before his Achilles injury. You just come off as knowing nothing about basketball (aka accurate) with every single take you have regarding LeBron and Kobe.

[dreamshake]

Kobe is always going to be better than Lebron all time in my book. You'll never change my mind about that. As a Lakers fan, I witnessed both players first hand and can objectively make that statement.

[Smoke117]

Kobe is always going to be better than Lebron all time in my book. You'll never change my mind about that. As a Lakers fan, I witnessed both players first hand and can objectively make that statement.

lol This opinion might matter if it wasn't from an alt of somebody universally considered half a retard. Nobody cares about what you have to say basketball wise as you've never said anything semi intelligent basketball wise since I've noticed this alt post so much the last couple of months. The only people that are going to back up what you have to say are the rest of the short changed mongoloids.

[FireDavidKahn]

LeBron's "star" help.

https://twitter.com/DaRealBootum/status/1241730141941837824

[superduper]

LeRun :(

[dreamshake]

lol This opinion might matter if it wasn't from an alt of somebody universally considered half a retard. Nobody cares about what you have to say basketball wise as you've never said anything semi intelligent basketball wise since I've noticed this alt post so much the last couple of months. The only people that are going to back up what you have to say are the rest of the short changed mongoloids.

You typed a lot, but it didn't change anything. Keep trying bruh.

[red1]

LeBron's "star" help.

https://twitter.com/DaRealBootum/status/1241730141941837824

star acquisitions include larry hughes, the corpse of jamison and derrick rose with no knees :oldlol: :roll:



its a wonder lebron ever won a ring there. the front office spent the dough after his return there, so they put in that work and earned that shit but man those early years were rough.

[Axe]

Kobe is always going to be better than Lebron all time in my book. You'll never change my mind about that. As a Lakers fan, I witnessed both players first hand and can objectively make that statement.
And not to mention Kobe is a real laker. Lebron, on the other hand...

[red1]

my dude already had two rings and then he went home and got that all-important hometown cleveland chip. "buh buh buh 6 finals losses" - three finals MVPs bitch. any rings on top of that now are just gravy


the mission is complete, the legacy is set, and 3ball can suck a sweaty ********. straight_ballin straight_bitched out and came back with a new account as egokiller - now thats the definition of getting wrecked. :roll:



https://media1.fdncms.com/clevescene/imager/u/original/4905345/screen_shot_2016-06-23_at_3.44.17_pm.png
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl0mZcIWIAEjWdL.jpg

[dreamshake]

Legacy set alright. Legacy as one of the biggest chokers in NBA finals history. Lebron is right there with Wilt, West, Foust and Baylor in that department.

[red1]

Legacy set alright. Legacy as one of the biggest chokers in NBA finals history. Lebron is right there with Wilt, West, Foust and Baylor in that department.

keep crying bitch. history will only remember the 3 finals MVPs. :oldlol:


and old man james is still going - dont kill yourself if he gets another one alright? :oldlol:

[red1]

history will only remember the two decades of high level of play - he only played poorly in his first two finals, which is understandable.


understandable considering he has THREE finals MVPs.

https://media.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/source.gif
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--XuahWkJU--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18rr335mymaeegif.gif
https://media2.giphy.com/media/9AIL5pRzFVykTvyAsA/giphy.gif

[dreamshake]

Nah history remembers how Jerry West only won once in 9 NBA finals, and Wilt twice in 6 NBA finals. LeBron's 3 wins in 9 NBA finals will leave a black mark on his legacy just like West and Chamberlains.

It's been what 50 years and we're still talking about West's and Wilt's failures. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[RRR3]

Dreamshake sobbing himself to sleep every night that LeBEAST is consensus top 3 all time.

[dreamshake]

Top three at choking in the NBA finals, indeed.

West
Baylor
Lebron

[red1]

dreamshake sobbing himself to sleep every night


big facts



lebeast is consensus top 3 all time.


faaaaacts

[RRR3]

Sobbing.




Himself.





To.





Sleep.

[dreamshake]

You probably sob everytime you look in the mirror. Condolences.

[RRR3]

^seething

[red1]

Sobbing.




Himself.





To.





Sleep.

he's just mad because no one ever invites him :)


we'll just keep winning and partying over here


https://i.gifer.com/W9pY.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/QQ86Phwpl0y3e/giphy.gif



You probably sob everytime you look in the mirror. Condolences.

thats enough out of you

https://media2.giphy.com/media/GaGkvtsxcLwfS/giphy.gif

[dreamshake]

Tbh I think his career is boosted by the number of Finals appearances, you see people use that to say he got there all those years in a row but completely neglect the colluding and the fact that all the real contenders were out West. Imagine him going up against the Spurs or Thunder in the Conference Finals instead of the 49-win Pacers, Al Horford-led Hawks, Derozan-led Raptors or IT/Rookie Tatum-led Celtics :kobe: .

Imagine celebrating ECF victories against Derozan lead team.

Amen.

[red1]

Imagine celebrating ECF victories against Derozan lead team.

Amen.

nah. we just celebrate the second most finals MVPs in NBA history.



that shit is money in the bank. AKA "the gold standard™."


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/IdealisticAdmiredAntelope-size_restricted.gif
https://monetary-metals.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/gstandard.png

[SouBeachTalents]

Imagine celebrating ECF victories against Derozan lead team.

Amen.
True, but Finals victories against 73 win teams are pretty worthy of celebration

[red1]

my boy soubeach what it do


james gang aka cigar gang



https://www.baltimoresun.com/resizer/bgoCifc8iq8Mel2dZTJh-OqMeK4=/fit-in/800x533/smart/filters:fill(black)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/QJ4SJ2O77RDJPDNI4FAQVRDHCE.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/1b/26/ee/1b26eef0631d96cce3fffc08b8e3ce2a--king-james-james-darcy.jpg

[dreamshake]

nah. we just celebrate the second most finals MVPs in NBA history.

LeBron James fans are so accustomed to celebrating second place awards. You've only done it six times. Second is always good right? Beta mentality.

[red1]

LeBron James fans are so accustomed to celebrating second place awards. You've only done it six times. Second is always good right? Beta mentality.

ok so how about this - best player of the era?



keep crying knicksman, you'll be alright after all of these years of tears. :oldlol:

[red1]

Players with 6 or more NBA finals losses:

Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
LeBron James

Yikes

Players with 3 or more NBA finals MVPs:

Michael Jordan
Lebron James
Magic Johnson
Shaquille O'neal
Tim Duncan


that's it.



Yikes.

[dreamshake]

Maybe all that losing will inspire Lebron to become a great GM like Jerry West one day.

[dreamshake]

Players with 6 or more NBA finals losses:

Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
LeBron James

Yikes

[red1]

Players with 6 or more NBA finals losses:

Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
LeBron James

Yikes

I repeat after your post:

Players with 3 or more NBA finals MVPs:

Michael Jordan
Lebron James
Magic Johnson
Shaquille O'neal
Tim Duncan


that's it.



Yikes.

[red1]

imagine being compared constantly to jerry west as your worst insult. OP doesnt even realize that he is giving out a compliment. :oldlol:


not to mention that you actually have to be a good player to play in so many finals that you are tied for 2nd most finals MVPs. more GOAT shit. :oldlol:

[3ball]

I repeat after your post:

Players with 3 or more NBA finals MVPs:

Michael Jordan
Lebron James
Magic Johnson
Shaquille O'neal
Tim Duncan


that's it.



Yikes.
Jordan has twice the rings, fmvp's, and three-peats as Lebron

while being #1 in:

- scoring (ppg)
- efficiency rating (PER)
- winning contribution (ws/48)
- box scores (BPM)
- clutch
- team ceiling (undefeated in Finals)


Lebron's arguments don't compare

[SouBeachTalents]

imagine being compared constantly to jerry west as your worst insult. OP doesnt even realize that he is giving out a compliment. :oldlol:


not to mention that you actually have to be a good player to play in so many finals that you are tied for 2nd most finals MVPs. more GOAT shit. :oldlol:
Not to mention West is literally one of the greatest Finals performers of all time. I bet he couldn't even name 5 better

[3ball]

Not to mention West is literally one of the greatest Finals performers of all time. I bet he couldn't even name 5 better
Jerry West isn't a top 10 player

Lebron is lucky that Ray/Kyrie hit those shots so he won't suffer the same fate as West

[red1]

Jordan has twice the rings, fmvp's, and three-peats as Lebron

while being #1 in:

- scoring (ppg)
- efficiency rating (PER)
- winning contribution (ws/48)
- box scores (BPM)
- clutch
- team ceiling (undefeated in Finals)


Lebron's arguments don't compare
fine.


now who's the second best player of all-time as of today?



we'll do this for 10 players because you argue that he isn't top 10. meanwhile in reality you are just wearing your jordan bulls pajamas and have latched onto lebron hate as a substitute for mj discussion.

[red1]

Not to mention West is literally one of the greatest Finals performers of all time. I bet he couldn't even name 5 better

he's already flip-flopped a million times. his main argument was that bron ball doesnt win championships. already proven wrong 3 times aka 3-time finals MVP. the excuse was "buh buh heat all-time stacked bosh and wade are the reason, ie stacked team." which was wrong in the first place because they played very good teams and werent unbeatable, very flawed team.

"bron ball doesnt win. unless stacked teams."


then 2016 happened and the rest of his arguments went down the drain. :roll:



business is slow, I actually have a little bit of time to engage him again and rub the 'ol victories in. :pimp: :yaohappy:

[3ball]

he's already flip-flopped a million times. his main argument was that bron ball doesnt win championships. already proven wrong 3 times aka 3-time finals MVP. the excuse was "buh buh heat all-time stacked bosh and wade are the reason, ie stacked team." which was wrong in the first place because they played very good teams and werent unbeatable, very flawed team.

"bron ball doesnt win. unless stacked teams."


then 2016 happened and the rest of his arguments went down the drain. :roll:



business is slow, I actually have a little bit of time to engage him again and rub the 'ol victories in. :pimp: :yaohappy:
Lebron is a 2-1 underdog in the Finals on average, and accordingly wins 1 out of 3 Finals, aka 3/9

So my argument is that Bron-ball = perennial underdog/losers on the championship level

which is obviously true, 3/9

And 2016 makes my point - only a ball-dominant style would need 7 games and a 28 ppg sidekick to beat the 16' Warriors - a ball movement style would have a comparable team to the Warriors and wouldn't be an underdog to begin with (aka Kawhi's Spurs, who almost won 70 games)

[red1]

Lebron is a 2-1 underdog in the Finals on average, and accordingly wins 1 out of 3 Finals, aka 3/9

So my argument is that Bron-ball = perennial underdog/losers on the championship level

which is obviously true, 3/9

And 2016 makes my point - only a ball-dominant style would need 7 games and a 28 ppg sidekick to beat the 16' Warriors - a ball movement style would have a comparable team to the Warriors and wouldn't be an underdog to begin with (aka Kawhi's Spurs, who almost won 70 games)

all you have is circumstance dawg. you already lost every point and every argument. which is why all you ever post is 3/9, you think that wins the argument.


which is why I'll never stop ragging on you for MJ not winning shit without pippen. you just want to prop up MJ so remember that he never won shit without pippen. :oldlol:


lebron won with two different duos on two different franchises. :oldlol:

[3ball]

all you have is circumstance dawg. you already lost every point and every argument. which is why all you ever post is 3/9, you think that wins the argument.


which is why I'll never stop ragging on you for MJ not winning shit without pippen. you just want to prop up MJ so remember that he never won shit without pippen. :oldlol:


lebron won with two different duos on two different franchises. :oldlol:
Lebron either won with better sidekicks than Pippen (Wade, AD), or better-producing sidekicks (Kyrie)

And he needed an additional star altogether - a 3rd star, aka Big 3

And his sidekick needed to be an equal scorer and closer, whereas MJ had the biggest gap ever over a 2nd option (10-30 more than Pip for every series)

[RRR3]

3ball is a huge bitch.

[red1]

Lebron either won with better sidekicks than Pippen (Wade, AD), or better-producing sidekicks (Kyrie)

And he needed an additional star altogether - a 3rd star, aka Big 3

And his sidekick needed to be an equal scorer and closer, whereas MJ had the biggest gap ever over a 2nd option (10-30 more than Pip for every series)

dude MJ went 1-9 without pippen. you're the one thats so obsessed with circumstance aka how things have landed. for all we know he wouldve gone ringless without pippen - because again he's 1 for 9 without him.


meanwhile lebron won on two different franchises with two different teams as the "alpha lead dawg" etc etc terminology that you use, aka as the undisputed number one option.

[red1]

3ball is a huge bitch.

yep.



plus bulls experienced no drop-off without pippen.

[RRR3]

Biggest bitch on the board tbqh. 3bitch

[3ball]

yep.



plus bulls experienced no drop-off without pippen.
Why did the 94' Bulls win with just 22 ppg from Pippen, while the 88' Bulls needed 35 and dpoy from MJ?

Obviously, the 94' Bulls had much more talent or system/brand/teamwork to win with just 22 from Pippen.. it was the latter obviously (3-peat teamwork), since their next-best talent was a simple dunker (horace)

[red1]

Why did the 94' Bulls win with just 22 ppg from Pippen, while the 88' Bulls needed 35 and dpoy from MJ?

Obviously, the 94' Bulls had much more talent and/or system/brand/teamwork that allowed them to win with just 22 from Pippen.. it was the latter obviously (3-peat teamwork), since their next-best talent was a simple dunker (horace)

you just said it right here, MJ came back to a stacked team :roll:


no dropoff whatsoever when MJ left :roll:

[red1]

stacked team is literally the argument that you used for years to discredit the heat - meanwhile the spurs and mavs didnt view them as stacked at all :roll:

[3ball]

you just said it right here, MJ came back to a stacked team :roll:


no dropoff whatsoever when MJ left :roll:
No, I said the 94' bulls must've had more talent OR teamwork/system to win with just 22 from Pip.

Then I said it was obviously teamwork that allowed the winning (3-peat system), since their next-best talent was a simple dunker (horace)

Brah, pip was nothing without that system

[red1]

No, I said the 94' bulls must've had more talent OR teamwork/system to win with just 22 from Pip.

Then I said it was obviously teamwork that allowed the winning (3-peat system), since their next-best talent was a simple dunker (horace)

so how come no dropoff without MJ? scottie plus a proven system leading to 55 wins - again without mj?


do you think even a single one of lebrons teams would've held out without him - let alone won 50+ games?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LeBron haters scared shitless the season could return :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

LeBron haters scared shitless the season could return :oldlol:
They are PRAYING that it doesn't :oldlol: I remember I saw a poster claim they'd rather have the season cancelled than LeBron win the title. Some of these guys literally hate LeBron more than they like watching basketball

[RRR3]

3bitch thinks LeBron is better than Jordan. It’s so obvious. I’m not saying I think that LeBron’s better, I’m just saying 3bitch does.

[red1]

LeBron haters scared shitless the season could return :oldlol:

got 'em firmly in their cage. the legacy is already cemented as a winner and a champion. any new rings are now just gravy.


and I think he's going to do it. bronny is ready for that next ring. he's still the best in the world.



3bitch thinks LeBron is better than Jordan. It’s so obvious. I’m not saying I think that LeBron’s better, I’m just saying 3bitch does.

Im not even joking, his arguments have actually convinced me that lebron is the GOAT or damn near it. you could tell by the way that he argues that he believes it as well.

bron is pound for pound the best of all time. just a force on the court. 3balls arguments have definitively proven to me that haters have never had shit.

[3ball]

LeBron haters scared shitless the season could return :oldlol:
It's funny because if somehow the season re-started and lebron choked 2011-style or 2013-style (pre-ray), the media would quickly reverse course and claim the season meant nothing because players didn't have enough time to prepare.. lol..

This is after pushing for the season to restart and saying it would be fine... Lol... LeFraud

Of course I got no answer to my question about why the 94' Bulls won with just 22 ppg from Pippen, while the 88' Bulls needed 35 and dpoy from MJ

[red1]

It's funny because if somehow the season re-started and lebron choked 2011-style or 2013-style (pre-ray), the media would quickly reverse course and claim the season meant nothing because players didn't have enough time to prepare.. lol..

This is after pushing for the season to restart and saying it would be fine... Lol... LeFraud

Of course I got no answer to my question about why the 94' Bulls won with just 22 ppg from Pippen, while the 88' Bulls needed 35 and dpoy from MJ
dude dont act like you're logical. you never answered my questions either. if pippen is so trash, why was there no dropoff? either its a stacked team or pippen isnt trash. you're ****ed and are a hypocrite either way with all of the arguments that you've put out there over the years.




3ball is finally reversing course and admitting that lebron is top 10 - its been a rough decade for him :roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

They are PRAYING that it doesn't :oldlol: I remember I saw a poster claim they'd rather have the season cancelled than LeBron win the title. Some of these guys literally hate LeBron more than they like watching basketball

Hahahaha

No surprise there. The insecurity here is palpable. "Finals losses!" "Can't play in a system!!" "GOAT choke artist!!1" I'll throw shade @ dude if its warranted. Seeing these obsessed weirdos losing sleep over him is hilarious though. Gonna be good theater when basketball is back, and Bron yams a basketball down their throats :oldlol:

[3ball]

dude dont act like you're logical. you never answered my questions either. if pippen is so trash, why was there no dropoff? either its a stacked team or pippen isnt trash. you're ****ed and are a hypocrite either way with all of the arguments that you've put out there over the years.




3ball is finally reversing course and admitting that lebron is top 10 - its been a rough decade for him :roll:
No drop-off?

3-peat to 2nd Round is goat drop-off

But there was no regular season drop-off for the same reason they won with Pippen only getting 22 PPG - they had sufficient teamwork/brand to win that way

Otoh, the 88' bulls needed 35 and dpoy from mj because they had far less teamwork/system

[red1]

No drop-off?

3-peat to 2nd Round is goat drop-off

But there was no regular season drop-off for the same reason they won with Pippen only getting 22 PPG - they had sufficient teamwork/brand to win that way

Otoh, the 88' bulls needed 35 and dpoy from mj because they had far less teamwork/system

you are a complete ****ing joke. by YOUR EXACT LOGIC MJ is a fraud and an underachiever. you literally claim lebron failed in 2009 because he lost with a 66 win team - that team would be lucky to scrape by and win 35 games if you just removed him. meanwhile jordan's teams literally win 55-games without him. mj's record in the playoffs without pippen and the rest of his championship bulls supporting cast? 1-9

you claim mo williams and pippen are the exact same of level of player. :roll:


keep crying in your jordan pajamas while you look at photos of ray allen and kyrie :roll:

[RRR3]

Jordan pajamas lmao

[dreamshake]

Players with 6 or more NBA finals losses:

Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
LeBron James

Yikes

Ya-ikes

[SouBeachTalents]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClXdOhhWkAA3H_f.jpg

Ya-ikes

[dreamshake]

Anyone could get 3 if they had 9 shots at it. Not exactly something I would celebrate.

[SouBeachTalents]

Anyone could get 3 if they had 9 shots at it. Not exactly something I would celebrate.
Kobe barely got 2 in 7, and Curry's currently at 0 after 5, so it may not be as easy as you think

[dreamshake]

Kobe barely got 2 in 7, and Curry's currently at 0 after 5, so it may not be as easy as you think

I don't care for the numbers you just mentioned. They're irrelevant. Any player can be good for one series and get the finals MVP. Tony Parker, Iguodala, Paul Pierce, etc.

Winning rings as one of the best players on your team mean more than just a finals MVPs. When you only won 3 times in 9 attempts, it's not a good look. Jerry West and Wilt still catch a ton of shit to this day for that.

[red1]

Anyone could get 3 if they had 9 shots at it. Not exactly something I would celebrate.

no they cant. :oldlol:






3 finals MVP bitch suck my nuts we already won :roll:

https://media.giphy.com/media/ooImpwbcMlAfS/200.gif

[Duncan21formvp]

Arguably the 5 greatest chokers in NBA Finals history.

1. Jerry West - 8 Finals Losses
2. Elgin Baylor - 8 Finals Losses
3. LeBron James - 6 Finals Losses
4. Larry Foust - 5 Finals Losses
5. Wilt Chamberlain - 4 Finals Losses

Lebron only one with 5+ with a MVP.

[ELITEpower23]

Anyone could get 3 if they had 9 shots at it. Not exactly something I would celebrate.

Why dont they just go for more shots? Cant make it? Too busy losing in the first round?

[Axe]

Lebron only one with 5+ with a MVP.
Here ya go again

[Duncan21formvp]

Why dont they just go for more shots? Cant make it? Too busy losing in the first round?

5+ finals losses and 2 bronze medals. No one else has that.

[light]

First Round Losses

Jordan - 3
Kobe - 2
LeBron - 0

:lebronamazed: