Scottie Was Damn Near MVP Without MJ

[FireDavidKahn]

Here are his accolades from that 1 season.

- All-Star Selection
- All-Star MVP
- 1st-team All-NBA
- 3rd in MVP voting
- 1st-team All-Defense
- 4th in DPOY voting
- 2x Player of the Week
- 1x Player of the Month
- 55 wins, 3rd seed
- Top 5 in BPM, VORP, and WS

Almost the MVP AND DPOY?

That's a lot of help MJ had


But Jordan went one step too far that first season. He was angry over the Bulls’ slow start and had already gone to Jerry Krause during the Western trip in November to ask that he make some trades.

“I need help,” he told Krause. Krause explained the Bulls had salary cap problems, which Jordan neither understood nor cared to hear about.

https://i.imgur.com/GpBXHnt.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vCxkUmq.jpg

[SouBeachTalents]

https://cameyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/3ball.jpg

[SouBeachTalents]

I do wonder though how many players in history have

Made All-NBA First Team
Made All-NBA Defensive First Team
Finished top 5 in MVP voting
Finished top 5 in DPOY voting

all in the same season. And I wonder how many of them were also scrubs like 3ball claims Pip was

[andgar923]

Imagine being so great and GOATy that you not just elevate others around you to be all stars, but raise their game so high that they're MVP candidates.

That's GOAT shit right there.

He was criticized for not making his teammates better then he molded Pip into an MVP caliber player. He molded Grant, BJ and Kukoc into all stars. He made journeymen players into champions. He made a CBA coach that made Bill Walton look sane into a HOF coach.

GOAT indeed.

[andgar923]

The true mark of a leader is to make others around you great without you.

You lay the foundation through discipline and teachings to mold someone into an independent functional successful person. That is what all parents strive for. It's what managers/corporations train and have meetings on. A true leader elevates others to achieve their potential, not take away nor diminish them.

[3ball]

so was Paul George last year

both suck, although it's hard to say who sucks more.

pippen sucks offensively but his physical presence wears the other team down more.. :eek:.. whereas George isn't as strong and is more like 88-90' pippen and moved off his spot easily

but pippen was poopin offensively, while George be poppin, and doesn't need a system to score

[FireDavidKahn]

Imagine being so great and GOATy that you not just elevate others around you to be all stars, but raise their game so high that they're MVP candidates.

That's GOAT shit right there.

He was criticized for not making his teammates better then he molded Pip into an MVP caliber player. He molded Grant, BJ and Kukoc into all stars. He made journeymen players into champions. He made a CBA coach that made Bill Walton look sane into a HOF coach.

GOAT indeed.

Did Scottie ever do this WITH MJ?

NO.

MJ was holding back how good Scottie really was.

[FireDavidKahn]

so was Paul George last year

both suck, although it's hard to say who sucks more.

pippen sucks offensively but his physical presence wears the other team down more.. :eek:.. whereas George isn't as strong and is more like 88-90' pippen and moved off his spot easily

but pippen was poopin offensively, while George be poppin, and doesn't need a system to score

Without MJ: 22 PPG on 17.8 FGA on 49.1% + 5.6 APG

That sure does "suck"

[superduper]

Wade WAS FMVP without Bran.

[andgar923]

Wade WAS FMVP without Bran.
If we're going that route..

Love and Bosh were damn near MVPs BEFORE Bran as well. Kyrie was ROY and All Star MVP, FIBA World Cup MVP, USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year,

[SouBeachTalents]

If we're going that route..

Love and Bosh were damn near MVPs BEFORE Bran as well. Kyrie was ROY and All Star MVP, FIBA World Cup MVP, USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year,
Neither of them had even finished top 5 in MVP voting, they have literally one top 10 finish apiece. You can't be a damn near MVP when you miss the playoffs every year like those two were doing

[Da_Realist]

Scottie was the forerunner to LeBron James. But MJ toughened him up. By his 7th season, Pippen was as good as he ever would be.

I imagine if Pippen spent his prime years hopping from team to team coordinating his own personal AAU team he would have won a few non-MJ titles too. Instead he waited too late...going to Houston and then Portland when he was past his prime.

[tpols]

I do wonder though how many players in history have

Made All-NBA First Team
Made All-NBA Defensive First Team
Finished top 5 in MVP voting
Finished top 5 in DPOY voting

all in the same season. And I wonder how many of them were also scrubs like 3ball claims Pip was

Kobe did it in '02 and '08.

[FireDavidKahn]

MJ when he doesn't play: Leadership makes his teammates better.
LeBron when he doesn't play: He was holding his teammates back!

[FireDavidKahn]

Kobe did it in '08.

So MJ basically played with Kobe:oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe did it in '08.
Imagine if Kobe had won the Finals that year. He would've literally had

MVP
FMVP
All-NBA First Team
All-NBA Defensive First Team
Top 5 DPOY voting
Gold medal

all in one season. Something iirc only Jordan & LeBron have accomplished

[tpols]

wouldve been a GOAT season.

but pau gasol doesnt stack up to prime wade and bosh. Lakers wouldve won with kobe-wade-bosh big 3 on the '08 team easily.

it would've been preposterous.

[SouBeachTalents]

wouldve been a GOAT season.

but pau gasol doesnt stack up to prime wade and bosh. Lakers wouldve won with kobe-wade-bosh big 3 on the '08 team easily.
Tbf though, Kobe wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire in those Finals. He really struggled those final 3 games

[Axe]

Wade WAS FMVP without Bran.
Unfortunately, a lot of them don't even seem to know that.

[3ball]

Without MJ: 22 PPG on 17.8 FGA on 49.1% + 5.6 APG

That sure does "suck"
^^^ Imagine that being the absolute peak performance of a #2 option on a SIX-TIME CHAMP.. 22 on 49%.. lol.. as #1 option no less... :facepalm:

Obviously, to win with that, the #1 option would need to score a record amount OVER that - and only the goat can do it - MJ scored a record 10-30 more than Pippen in every series while matching him in assists..

No one is close to this - virtually EVERYONE needed an equal-scoring sidekick to win, except MJ and mini-MJ (mamba).. there might be 1 or 2 other exceptions but MJ and Kobe were the only guys that won that way as a standard when they were #1 option.

[red1]

^^^ Imagine that being the absolute peak performance of a #2 option on a SIX-TIME CHAMP.. 22 on 49%.. lol.. as #1 option no less... :facepalm:

Obviously, to win with that, the #1 option would need to score a record amount OVER that - and only the goat can do it - MJ scored a record 10-30 more than Pippen in every series while matching him in assists..

No one is close to this - virtually EVERYONE needed an equal-scoring sidekick to win, except MJ and mini-MJ (mamba)

no pip, no chip - shout out LAmbruh. :oldlol:

[gengiskhan]

reason.....1994 Pippen was damn near MVP (finished 3rd behing Hakeem, Ewing)

1. No pressure at all. Just play fast and loose. Hog the ball 90% of 24 mins.
2. Grant became an All-Star. Again ZERO pressure. Just go out there and kill it. made it to Allstar game.
3. BJ peaked to All-star leve. again no pressure. became a starter. got into 1994 Al Star Game.
4. Ronny boy. poor man's MJ. played D perfectly. chipped in with 10 ppg.
5. Kukoc addition was the biggest. maybe not All Star worthy. But Clutch as hell. hit 4 buzzer beaters to win by himself

all this lead to 55 wins instead of 47 wins.

[gengiskhan]

reason.....1994 Pippen was damn near MVP (finished 3rd behing Hakeem, Ewing)

1. No pressure at all. Just play fast and loose. Hog the ball 90% of 24 mins.
2. Grant became an All-Star. Again ZERO pressure. Just go out there and kill it. made it to Allstar game.
3. BJ peaked to All-star leve. again no pressure. became a starter. got into 1994 Al Star Game.
4. Ronny boy. poor man's MJ. played D perfectly. chipped in with 10 ppg.
5. Kukoc addition was the biggest. maybe not All Star worthy. But Clutch as hell. hit 4 buzzer beaters to win by himself

all this lead to 55 wins instead of 47 wins.

[ArbitraryWater]

Thats an insane season.

[3ba11]

This thread is just a lie.

Pippen was never "nearly" MVP, and he was never in any "conversation" for MVP.

No one ever said "who will win MVP this year - Hakeem, Robinson, or Pippen??"

That conversation never happened and would've been considered ridiculous.. No one even knew that he had garnered enough votes for 3rd until 30 years later when new fans looked it up... The Bulls surprised everyone by staying afloat in the regular season, so Pippen's 22/5 system stats were inflated by this surprise factor and got a few extra votes... But he wasn't a "franchise player" that was tasked with building a lottery team from scratch - he was simply handed the goat dynasty, which he cratered to barely .500 in less than 18 months.. Then he begged MJ to return... aka honeymoon over.. "MJ save me!!".. So MJ returns and lifts them from barely .500 to another 3-peat

[SouBeachTalents]

Here are his accolades from that 1 season.

- All-Star Selection
- All-Star MVP
- 1st-team All-NBA
- 3rd in MVP voting
- 1st-team All-Defense
- 4th in DPOY voting
- 2x Player of the Week
- 1x Player of the Month
- 55 wins, 3rd seed
- Top 5 in BPM, VORP, and WS
Damn, that's actually fvcking crazy he accomplished all that


Almost the MVP AND DPOY?

That's a lot of help MJ had
Agreed

[3ba11]

“I need help," he told Krause





^^^ 100% lie.. you guys are horrible people




"I will say 1 thing about Michael Jordan... To this day, he never came to me and asked for other players.. He never came to me and asked me to draft a player... He never came to me and asked me to trade for a player.. never ONCE, did that happen."

https://www.instagram.com/jumpmanhistory/reel/CaVwtCcpXcp/



Any team that requires 41 ppg from the 1st option is a horrific cast... Isiah and Magic stated that the Bulls were a 1-man team during the 93' Finals.. Anyone can youtube "Magic says MJ is goat in 1993" and see Isiah and Magic telling Bob Costas that the Bulls' cast was nothing.

Pippen was a low producer that was gifted an unprecedented situation in 1994 that inflated his pedestrian 22/5 stats to undeserved media accolade.. Other guys with those stats and better playoff performance don't get accolades because they don't enjoy the winning spotlight like Pippen does alongside the GOAT..

Pippen's entire case is based off media accolades, which are group think by journalism majors and influenced by winning spotlight or storylines... They mean literally nothing in determining how good someone is at basketball... They certainly mean nothing in the 90's - most people didn't know that All-NBA teams existed.

[ArbitraryWater]

wouldve been a GOAT season.

but pau gasol doesnt stack up to prime wade and bosh. Lakers wouldve won with kobe-wade-bosh big 3 on the '08 team easily.

it would've been preposterous.

There is no chance anyone wins a title with your best player playing that kind of Finals.

It does not happen.

[bullettooth]

If Pippen and Phil Jackson were so great... Howcome they didn't win without MJ in '94?