WORST defenders in playoff run to win a FMVP

[TheCorporation]

I wondered who was the worst defenders to win a FMVP

Defensive rating:

1980 Magic: 100
1981 Maxwell: 104
1982 Magic: 102
1983 Moses: 96
1984 Bird: 103
1985 Kareem: 105
1986 Bird: 103
1987 Magic: 107
1988 Worthy: 111
1989 Dumars: 108

1990 Isiah: 100
1991 Jordan: 101
1992 Jordan: 104
1993 Jordan: 105
1994 Hakeem: 97
1995 Hakeem: 108
1996 Jordan: 101
1997 Jordan: 101
1998 Jordan: 103
1999: Duncan: 92

2000 Shaq: 104
2001 Shaq: 96
2002 Shaq: 99
2003 Duncan: 92
2004 Billups: 96
2005 Duncan: 101
2006 Wade: 100
2007 Parker: 107
2008 Pierce: 105
2009 Kobe: 104

2010 Kobe: 109
2011 Dirk: 105
2012 LeBron: 99
2013 LeBron: 101
2014 Kawhi: 101
2015 Iggy: 101
2016 LeBron: 100
2017 Durant: 105
2018 Durant:104
2019 Kawhi: 103
2020 ?

Is MJ the only top 10 player to never have a championship run 100 and below?


Top 10:

1. LeBron (99, 100) x2
2. Magic (100) x1
3. Shaq (96, 99) x2
4. Duncan (92, 92) x2
5. Hakeem (97) x1
6. Kareem (99) x1

MJ and Kobe never did it :(

[FireDavidKahn]

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[TheCorporation]

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the 3ball slayer strikes again

It's also crazy to see that Pippen was the leading anchor for every Bulls chip run, beat MJ in Def rating every single year. Rodman did too of course.

[FireDavidKahn]

the 3ball slayer strikes again

It's also crazy to see that Pippen was the leading anchor for every Bulls chip run, beat MJ in Def rating every single year. Rodman did too of course.

There's a reason Scottie's middle name is "tree trunk".

[highwhey]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Aff4ryYiacUO4/giphy.gif

:roll:

[superduper]

Okay now watch the games nerd :roll:

[TheCorporation]

Okay now watch the games nerd :roll:

Sorry bout it

[MrFonzworth]

Okay now watch the games nerd :roll:

Rich coming from Mr. Spreadsheet himself. Biggest geek on ISH getting hit with his own medicine:yaohappy:

[Smoke117]

Using defensive rating on its own to try and bring up or belittle a player is idiotic. This is just ****ing stupid moronicness.

[warriorfan]

Using defensive rating on its own to try and bring up or belittle a player is idiotic. This is just ****ing stupid moronicness.

It’s classic SpaceJam2 posting, the 60 post per day incel who is either retarded or has some sort of serious brain damage.

[Smoke117]

Defensive rating is only useful when comparing players on the same team. You can't just throw it out there like an idiot. A players defensive rating compared to his teammates and the teams overall drating is useful as it shows how good or worthless he is. You can be a worthless defensive player, though, and have a low defensive rating because you were on a good defensive team. In 2004 Rip Hamilton had a 99 defensive rating....the teams rating overall? 95.4. Compared to the team he was garbage. His rating is so low because of who he played with not because he played good defense.

[TheCorporation]

Defensive rating is only useful when comparing players on the same team. You can't just throw it out there like an idiot. A players defensive rating compared to his teammates and the teams overall drating is useful as it shows how good or worthless he is. You can be a worthless defensive player, though, and have a low defensive rating because you were on a good defensive team. In 2004 Rip Hamilton had a 99 defensive rating....the teams rating overall? 95.4. Compared to the team he was garbage. His rating is so low because of who he played with not because he played good defense.

That's fair enough. So MJ could never anchor a defense like LeBron or Pippen.

[Stanley Kobrick]

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[Phoenix]

So basically on the 'logic' being presented, 95 Hakeem is the 2nd worst defender in this scenario. That's......the level of discussion we're having here.

[TheCorporation]

So basically on the 'logic' being presented, 95 Hakeem is the 2nd worst defender in this scenario. That's......the level of discussion we're having here.

Hakeem has what, 8x first round exits? It's no surprise when the pressure increases, guys like MJ and Hakeem shrink. Regular season warriors shrink in the playoffs.

Harden, MJ, Hakeem, Kobe, etc. It happens.

[TheCorporation]

is mj the only top 10 player to never have a championship run 100 and below?


Top 10 players:

1. Lebron (99, 100) x2
2. Magic (100) x1
3. Shaq (96, 99) x2
4. Duncan (92, 92) x2
5. Hakeem (97) x1
6. Kareem (99) x1

mj and kobe never did it :(

anyone???

[Phoenix]

Hakeem has what, 8x first round exits? It's no surprise when the pressure increases, guys like MJ and Hakeem shrink. Regular season warriors shrink in the playoffs.

Harden, MJ, Hakeem, Kobe, etc. It happens.

Rookie Magic in 1980 was a better defender than peak Lebron in 2013. Good to know.

We'd all be better off if your dad had jerked off in a banana patch the night you were conceived.

[TheCorporation]

Rookie Magic in 1980 was a better defender than peak Lebron in 2013. Good to know.

We'd all be better off if your dad had jerked off in a banana patch the night you were conceived.

Compare by year.

Magic had Kareem.
LeBron WAS Kareem.

MJ had his anchor, Pippen.
LeBron WAS the anchor.

Just not even fair...

[Phoenix]

Compare by year.

Magic had Kareem.
LeBron WAS Kareem.

MJ had his anchor, Pippen.
LeBron WAS the anchor.

Just not even fair...

So who was 'Kareem' in 85 when Kareem himself had a 105 rating? Just to be clear, don't be duped into thinking I'm actually debating with you. I have a strange curiosity for just how stupid you can go with this one.

[TheCorporation]

So who was 'Kareem' in 85 when Kareem himself had a 105 rating? Just to be clear, don't be duped into thinking I'm actually debating with you. I have a strange curiosity for just how stupid you can go with this one.

Ditto...Facts are...facts.

Translation:
•MJ never was his team's defensive anchor
•MJ never had a better playoff defensive run than LBJ
•LBJ is the GOAT 2-way player
•LBJ was his team's anchor
•LBJ is a much better defender than MJ
•Pippen is a much better defender than MJ

[Phoenix]

Ditto...Facts are...facts.

Translation:
•MJ never was his team's defensive anchor
•MJ never had a better playoff defensive run than LBJ
•LBJ is the GOAT 2-way player
•LBJ was his team's anchor
•LBJ is a much better defender than MJ
•Pippen is a much better defender than MJ

And Tony Parker is a better defender than 95 Hakeem cause defensive rating. Big factzzz..

Fukk off.

[TheCorporation]

And Tony Parker is a better defender than 95 Hakeem cause defensive rating. Big factzzz..

Fukk off.

It's funny you keep holding on to 1995 Hakeem nd I know you are probably trolling but I'll bite.

That was his worst defensive year. He had plenty of better years defensively but you have to imagine keeping up the pace of your defense for an entire Championship run is hard. MJ couldn't do it either.

[TheCorporation]

And Tony Parker is a better defender than 95 Hakeem cause defensive rating. Big factzzz..

Fukk off.
And just for the record, it probably didn't help that Hakeem let his Rockets give up over 100 points PER GAME during the Finals. The Magic scored: 428 in 4 games for an average of 107 per game

118, 106, 103, 101

Numbers don't lie. Put your emotion side for a minute you idiot.

In 1995 he also gave up 761 points to the Suns in 7 games, for an average of 108.7 per GAME :lol

130, 118, 85, 114, 97, 103, 114

Thanks for proving my point

[Phoenix]

It's funny you keep holding on to 1995 Hakeem nd I know you are probably trolling but I'll bite.

That was his worst defensive year. He had plenty of better years defensively but you have to imagine keeping up the pace of your defense for an entire Championship run is hard. MJ couldn't do it either.

Chauncey in 04 has the 2nd lowest rating on the list with 2001 Shaq and Moses. So the conclusion is he's the 2nd best defender on the list based on your 'facts'. A better use of your time would be going to your nearest clinic and getting snipped. As I said, this isn't a conversation. Just seeing just how far down the elevator goes with you.

[TheCorporation]

Chauncey in 04 has the 2nd lowest rating on the list with 2001 Shaq and Moses. So the conclusion is he's the 2nd best defender on the list based on your 'facts'. A better use of your time would be going to your nearest clinic and getting snipped. As I said, this isn't a conversation. Just seeing just how far down the elevator goes with you.

So LeBron and Billups anchored a better defensive team than MJ? Right?

[Phoenix]

So LeBron and Billups anchored a better defensive team than MJ? Right?

So Biliups anchored a better defense than 2013 Lebron? Right?

Fukk off.

[TheCorporation]

So Biliups anchored a better defense than 2013 Lebron? Right?

Fukk off.

Look at the #s, what do they say?

[warriorfan]

I’ve seen enough. Op is autistic.

[Phoenix]

Look at the #s, what do they say?

They say Chauncey was a better defender than Lebron ever was. Factz.

[ImKobe]

What's the point of comparing DRTGs like this when Lebron's playing 38-44 win teams with bottom tier offenses like every year in the LEast?

look at these ORTG ranks

2012 - Knicks (17th), Pacers (7th), Celtics (27th)
2013 - Bucks (22nd), Bulls (23rd), Pacers (20th)
2016 - Pistons (13th), Hawks (22nd) & Raptors (5th)


only two out of the 9 teams had a top 10 offense while most of them are bottom-tier. That 2013 LEastern Conference was an absolute joke.

Now let's look at Kobe's 3 straight Finals runs

2008 - Nuggets (11th), Jazz (1st), Spurs (15th)
2009 - Jazz (8th), Rockets (14th), Nuggets (7th)
2010 - OKC (12th), Jazz (8th), Suns (1st)

Not a single below-average offense. 8 out of 9 won 50+ games, the only one that didn't still had a 48-34 record.

[Phoenix]

What's the point of comparing DRTGs like this

That's just it, there's no point because it's a stat that measures your defensive level of play relative to your teammates and reliant on your team being a great defensive team as a whole. That's why you get anomalies like Chauncy Billups having lower ratings than everyone but Tim Duncan because the 2004 Pistons were a historic defensive team. Pretty much everyone on that team has a sub 100 rating; it doesn't mean that everyone on the team was a historic level defender.

But, OP is a retard with a keyboard and has free reign to make dumb topics with the support of the admins.

[ImKobe]

That's just it, there's no point because it's a stat that measures your defensive level of play relative to your teammates and reliant on your team being a great defensive team as a whole. That's why you get anomalies like Chauncy Billups having lower ratings than everyone but Tim Duncan because the 2004 Pistons were a historic defensive team. Pretty much everyone on that team has a sub 100 rating; it doesn't mean that everyone on the team was a historic level defender.

But, OP is a retard with a keyboard and has free reign to make dumb topics with the support of the admins.

Right. Too many variables.

I thought these guys were trolling but I actually believe they're this stupid.

[TheCorporation]

Why did Pippen have a better DRtg than MJ every chip? Why did LBJ?

Magically happened?

[Phoenix]

Why did Pippen have a better DRtg than MJ every chip? Why did LBJ?

Magically happened?

Chauncy Billups is a better defender in 04 than Lebron, Scottie and MJ in any of their runs. Defensive rating fax.

[Axe]

But, OP is a retard with a keyboard and has free reign to make dumb topics with the support of the admins.
Yeah, and with impunity, most of every thread he makes has hatred or bitterness directed towards jordan. I wonder whatever did the legend baller do to make his life so miserable. 🤦😒

[TheCorporation]

Chauncy Billups is a better defender in 04 than Lebron, Scottie and MJ in any of their runs. Defensive rating fax.

Jumped off that 1995 Hakeem storyline real quick :lol

So now it's Billups you dont like? As opposed to ADMITTING LBJ and Pippen were much better defenders than MJ?

[Whoah10115]

Jumped off that 1995 Hakeem storyline real quick :lol

So now it's Billups you dont like? As opposed to ADMITTING LBJ and Pippen were much better defenders than MJ?

You're actually a much worse postsr than 3ball. He's just crazy.

But Kblaze is right..you all have no interest in talking basketball.

[Phoenix]

Jumped off that 1995 Hakeem storyline real quick :lol

So now it's Billups you dont like? As opposed to ADMITTING LBJ and Pippen were much better defenders than MJ?

Take your emotions out of it idiot. I can jump right back onto the Hakeem storyline. Chauncy in 04 has a better rating than 94 Hakeem, the defensive player of the year :lol. Whoops. It's not dislike to point out what your 'facts' say babyboi. Sorry if that's inconvenient. :(

Hakeem, MJ, Lebron AND Pippen have never had defensive ratings that low during their title runs. So time to go back to the drawing board on this one.

[ImKobe]

Why did Pippen have a better DRtg than MJ every chip? Why did LBJ?

Magically happened?

That's false, him & Pippen had the same DRTG in multiple runs and the difference in their DRTG comes from the rotations Phil played & MJ also played more minutes than Pip in most of those runs so obviously Jordan was out there with different players at certain points in the game. I feel like you legitimately think that DRTG is supposed to measure a player's individual defensive impact on the court & I feel sorry for you.

[Phoenix]

That's false, him & Pippen had the same DRTG in multiple runs and the difference in their DRTG comes from the rotations Phil played & MJ also played more minutes than Pip in most of those runs so obviously Jordan was out there with different players at certain points in the game. I feel like you legitimately think that DRTG is supposed to measure a player's individual defensive impact on the court & I feel sorry for you.

The average defensive rating for each over the 6 titles is MJ 101.33 and Scottie 101.5. It's an equally dumb argument to make due to a number of variables and one I wouldn't even consider typing out on a decent message board, but when in Rome...... admin isn't concerned about the topic quality so nobody else needs to give a shit about making logical posts, when the OP is getting high 5s and a happy meal from management with every click so job well done.

[TheCorporation]

Take your emotions out of it idiot. I can jump right back onto the Hakeem storyline. Chauncy in 04 has a better rating than 94 Hakeem, the defensive player of the year :lol. Whoops. It's not dislike to point out what your 'facts' say babyboi. Sorry if that's inconvenient. :(

Hakeem, MJ, Lebron AND Pippen have never had defensive ratings that low during their title runs. So time to go back to the drawing board on this one.

Stay focused.

Now you're compating regular season defense (DPOY) to a championship playoff run? You've lost it...

[Trollsmasher]

Not surprising - guard defense is extremely overrated, especially in an ISO era with like 4 good SGs in the entire league

[Phoenix]

Stay focused.

Now you're compating regular season defense (DPOY) to a championship playoff run? You've lost it...

Whenever you get around to making an intelligent post, I'll focus up. You've already been educated in various posts that using defensive ratings in this way is a shitty and extremely flawed way to argue individual defenders, regardless of its application for a season or in other instances.

So right now smearing shit on a page is an adequate response to your drivel.

[Turbo Slayer]

Good post Corp.

https://media.giphy.com/media/wAxlCmeX1ri1y/giphy.gif

:hammertime:

[highwhey]

No Pip, No Chip