Pippen only needed 22ppg to get 54 wins and to the 2nd round

[AirBonner]

Meanwhile MJ’s 37ppg in 1987 was only good for 40 wins (8th seed) and a 1st round exit. Why was Pippen able to maximize the talent around him and achieve a higher team ceiling than MJ despite scoring 15ppg less than MJ?

[ImKobe]

Lebron missed the Playoffs...

[FireDavidKahn]

Lebron missed the Playoffs...

LeBron was injured.

[ImKobe]

LeBron was injured.

Oh really, was he injured when he activated Playoff mode?

[LostCause]

Lebron missed the Playoffs...

3 times

[Phoenix]

The answer, beyond the 87 Bulls being incredibly mediocre after MJ in a tougher east, is that 87 MJ was still very much a solo act. Make no mistake, MJ immediately improved that team considering they were a sub 30 win team before he got there, added 11 wins as a rookie and 40 wins in his third year( 2nd full season) with no tangible increase in talent. By his 4th year he already had the Bulls at 50 wins with Charles Oakley as the next best player after him. MJ's ability to 'lead' and harness his gifts into a team yielding better team records grew a lot between his 3rd and 4th years.

[3ball]

The answer, beyond the 87 Bulls being incredibly mediocre after MJ in a tougher east, is that 87 MJ was still very much a solo act. Make no mistake, MJ immediately improved that team considering they were a sub 30 win team before he got there, added 11 wins as a rookie and 40 wins in his third year( 2nd full season) with no tangible increase in talent. By his 4th year he already had the Bulls at 50 wins with Charles Oakley as the next best player after him. MJ's ability to 'lead' and harness his gifts into a team yielding better team records grew a lot between his 3rd and 4th years.
So 93' Pippen was considered a "leader" but 87' Jordan wasn't, is that it now?... that's why Pippen won 55 and MJ won 40?

Are you guys out of your mind? What's the deal with the re-writing of history?

Pippen was never considered a good leader and this is the exact factor that was exposed in those playoffs

And the 88' Bulls improved 10 games over 1987 because their defense improved to #3 in the league, due to MJ's dpoy campaign - otherwise, everything else remained the same..

The 88' team couldn't win 55 like the 94' Bulls because they lacked the talent or system to lighten MJ's load, whereas the 94' Bulls had a 3-peat system that allowed Pippen to average only 22 a game.. this was only good for 2nd round exit however, and needed a 33-point infusion (goat amount) to elevate to 3-peat caliber

[Phoenix]

So 93' Pippen was considered a "leader" but 87' Jordan wasn't, is that it now?... that's why Pippen won 55 and MJ won 40?

Are you guys out of your mind? What's the deal with the re-writing of history?

Pippen was never considered a good leader and this is the exact factor that was exposed in those playoffs

And the 88' Bulls improved 10 games over 1987 because their defense improved to #3 in the league, due to MJ's dpoy campaign - otherwise, everything else remained the same..

The 88' team couldn't win 55 like the 94' Bulls because they lacked the talent or system to lighten MJ's load, whereas the 94' Bulls had a 3-peat system that allowed Pippen to average only 22 a game.. this was only good for 2nd round exit however, and needed a 33-point infusion (goat amount) to elevate to 3-peat caliber

I didn't even mention Pippen in that post. So how the fukk did you infer that I was making any commentary about his leadership? I said the 87 Bulls were a weak cast in a strong east. I said the Bulls were absolute shit (sub 30 win team) before Jordan got there and just off his talent he improved the team, year by year, until they were a 50 win team by his 4th year, and even the cast in 88 wasn't great, but his ability to lead improved. I didn't say lead RELATIVE TO PIPPEN, I'm saying on his own merits his own leadership skills, game management improved with experience and he got better as a player. 88 Jordan was a better player than 87, as a leader and skillwise. That translated to both his own individual accolades( MVP, DPOY) and the team leaping from 40 wins to 50 wins.

The 94 Bulls were coming off a threepeat. They had chemistry built off the prior playoff wars. You're not dropping any knowledge I don't know and haven't already said myself in the past. The team around Pippen was better than what Jordan had in 87. Hell, the east in 94 wasn't even as strong as it was in 87. So there's alot of factors disqualifying this from being an apples to apples comparison.

So...calm down before you pop a vessel. I've made absolutely no reference or comparison between MJ as a leader and Scottie as one.

[3ball]

Essentially, the 88' Bulls lacked the talent or system to win 50 without the #1 option getting 35 ppg, while the 94' Bulls had the talent or system to win 55 with Pippen getting just 22.

Does that make sense?

They didn't win 55 because Pippen was a better leader than MJ.. They won 55 because they had the talent or system to win while Pippen got only 22 ppg - Pippen's far lower production is a sign of a great system... aka, low ppg from the #1 option and 50+ wins = good system

[Phoenix]

Essentially, the 88' Bulls lacked the talent or system to win 50 without the #1 option getting 35 ppg, while the 94' Bulls had the talent or system to win 55 with Pippen getting just 22.

Does that make sense?

They didn't win 55 because Pippen was a better leader than MJ.. They won 55 because they had the talent or system to win while Pippen got only 22 ppg - Pippen's far lower production is a sign of a great system... aka, low ppg from the #1 option and 50+ wins = good system

Did I not say something to that effect above?

'The 94 Bulls were coming off a threepeat. They had chemistry built off the prior playoff wars. You're not dropping any knowledge I don't know and haven't already said myself in the past. The team around Pippen was better than what Jordan had in 87. Hell, the east in 94 wasn't even as strong as it was in 87. So there's alot of factors disqualifying this from being an apples to apples comparison.'

Are you on autopilot?

[3ball]

Did I not say something to that effect above?

'The 94 Bulls were coming off a threepeat. They had chemistry built off the prior playoff wars. You're not dropping any knowledge I don't know and haven't already said myself in the past. The team around Pippen was better than what Jordan had in 87. Hell, the east in 94 wasn't even as strong as it was in 87. So there's alot of factors disqualifying this from being an apples to apples comparison.'

Are you on autopilot?
I stand eviscerated.

I'm not surprised that an MJ fan like yourself isn't afraid to go toe-to-toe with me.. And win

Whereas Lebron fans cower and whine from the sidelines.. sad.. :facepalm:

I rest my case

[Phoenix]

I stand eviscerated.

I'm not surprised that an MJ fan like yourself isn't afraid to go toe-to-toe with me.. And win

Whereas Lebron fans cower and whine from the sidelines.. sad.. :facepalm:

I rest my case

:cheers:

[Axe]

Meanwhile MJ’s 37ppg in 1987 was only good for 40 wins (8th seed) and a 1st round exit. Why was Pippen able to maximize the talent around him and achieve a higher team ceiling than MJ despite scoring 15ppg less than MJ?
Lmao they won 55 games actually and they still had hof coach phil jackson, who tried to experiment with scottie and his teammates to fill a void left by jordan in his first retirement.

[FireDavidKahn]

SPeaks to how good his defense was

[3ball]

SPeaks to how good his defense was
MJ led a better defense in 1988 when he was dpoy, but STILL needed to average 35 because the 88' Bulls lacked the system that allows winning with only 22 ppg

bulls with no system or talent = need 35 from MJ to win 50

bulls WITH system or talent = only need 22 from Pip




Hope that helps

[FireDavidKahn]

MJ led a better defense in 1988 when he was dpoy, but STILL needed to average 35 because the 88' Bulls lacked the system that allows winning with only 22 ppg

bulls with no system or talent = need 35 from MJ to win 50

bulls WITH system or talent = only need 22 from Pip




Hope that helps

Nope. When MJ left the Bulls were free to play AS A TEAM which is why they had success without "the GOAT". Jordan was selfish for taking so many shots and taking his teammates out of the picture.

[Turbo Slayer]

Nope. When MJ left the Bulls were free to play AS A TEAM which is why they had success without "the GOAT". Jordan was selfish for taking so many shots and taking his teammates out of the picture.

Jordan averaged 5.7 assists in his first 3-peat. Jordan was not selfish. Hot take.

[Axe]

Nope. When MJ left the Bulls were free to play AS A TEAM which is why they had success without "the GOAT". Jordan was selfish for taking so many shots and taking his teammates out of the picture.
Jordan was more selfish when doug collins was still the bulls' head coach but adjusted himself when phil jackson took over him as his successor.

[3ball]

Jordan was more selfish when doug collins was still the bulls' head coach but adjusted himself when phil jackson took over him as his successor.
He adjusted his game but not in the sense of , "he passed more" because he averaged 6 apg in the 80's including an 8 apg season

His assists actually went down under Jackson, especially in the 2nd three-peat, but he was taking less time than ever to score - that's the part of MJ's game that the triangle forced MJ to use and stress - the post footwork that allows quicker scoring upon the catch....

Ultimately, there was no primary ball-handler role (no pg) in the triangle - so only an off-ball player like MJ could adhere to the ridiculously strict no-dribble requirements of the triangle

[Manny98]

Pippen ball allowed everyone to flourish, Grant and Armstrong instantly became all stars without MJ reducing them

[FireDavidKahn]

Pippen ball allowed everyone to flourish, Grant and Armstrong instantly became all stars without MJ reducing them

Exactly.

[AirBonner]

Pippen ball allowed everyone to flourish, Grant and Armstrong instantly became all stars without MJ reducing them

Irrefutable :pimp:

[3ball]

Pippen ball allowed everyone to flourish, Grant and Armstrong instantly became all stars without MJ reducing them
bulls with no system or talent = need 35 from MJ to win in 88'

bulls WITH system or talent = only need 22 from Pip to win in 94'

[Smoke117]

bulls with no system or talent = need 35 from MJ to win in 88'

bulls WITH system or talent = only need 22 from Pip to win in 94'

The Bulls were 4-6 when Pippen was injured and he had the 2nd highest BPM in the league after Robinson. Of course all you go on about is PPGZ, though, the fact that Pippen was the best perimeter defensive player in the world and top 10, period, even with big men means nothing I guess, huh? Your crush Jordan is already considered the best player ever, so I don't know why you feel the need to go out of your way to diminish every teammate he's ever had. It's ****ing pathetic.

[FireDavidKahn]

bulls with no system or talent = need 35 from MJ to win in 88'

bulls WITH system or talent = only need 22 from Pip to win in 94'

The system was Scottie.

[Smoke117]

The system was Scottie.

Exactly. The 94 Bulls were led by a top 5 player in the league. This idiot going on about a system and talent is hilarious. The 94 bulls were Pippen and a bunch of role players. And again...the Bulls were 4-6 in the 10 games he missed. It's too bad he was injured at the beginning of the season as it would have been hilarious to see the 94 bulls win more games than the 93 bulls with Jordan. Fanboys like this clown would be having such a huge meltdown.

[FireDavidKahn]

Exactly. The 94 Bulls were led by a top 5 player in the league. This idiot going on about a system and talent is hilarious. The 94 bulls were Pippen and a bunch of role players. And again...the Bulls were 4-6 in the 10 games he missed. It's too bad he was injured at the beginning of the season as it would have been hilarious to see the 94 bulls win more games than the 93 bulls with Jordan. Fanboys like this clown would be having such a huge meltdown.

Damn, never knew that part:roll:

Looks like MJ's gambling paid off. Scottie Pippen saved Jordan's legacy by getting injured:roll:

[TheCorporation]

Meanwhile MJ’s 37ppg in 1987 was only good for 40 wins (8th seed) and a 1st round exit. Why was Pippen able to maximize the talent around him and achieve a higher team ceiling than MJ despite scoring 15ppg less than MJ?
Shut it down

:dancin