Are there any active players who are the GOAT at any single aspect of basketball?

[Kblaze8855]

Obviously you have Steph who is the GOAT outside shooter....or at least off the dribble.


Kyrie arguably has the tightest handle ever far as protecting his dribble:



https://youtu.be/qQ1Z5aus-9M




Up there with Rod Strickland and Isiah.




That it? Is anyone else in the nba a candidate for the goat at any individual thing?

[Kblaze8855]

How high up the all time transition scorer list would you put the likes of Lebron and Giannis?

Both of them are unstoppable in transition but no more so than Doctor J really...or Magic in a different way. Or MJ of course.



You giving anyone GOAT tier pick and roll running status?


Shot blocking?

Rebounding?

Defense?

Let me have some names to ponder.

[tpols]

chris paul's handle is probably just as tight as kyries.

[Kblaze8855]

It’s up there but at some point it’s hard to separate. I wish I could see Muggsy guard all of them with 90s rules. You could obviously shoot over him but nobody just dribble around him in comfort.

[tpols]

kyrie's finishing impresses me sometimes more than his handle. that clip was just as much a reverse layup from every angle exhibition as it was dribblin.

[Kblaze8855]

Yea he’s goat tier as a little man finisher but last time I brought that up it led to an argument on if Wade was a little man and if so how Kyrie isn’t even close and I didn’t feel like all that again. But it’s not like we have anything else to do.

[DoctorP]

LeBran is one of the all time greatest at losing if not the greatest :lol

[tpols]

Yea he’s goat tier as a little man finisher but last time I brought that up it led to an argument on if Wade was a little man and if so how Kyrie isn’t even close and I didn’t feel like all that again. But it’s not like we have anything else to do.

i dont think anybody with wade's wingspan and muscularity can be considered a little man.

kyrie can barely dunk, yet finishes like a GOAT. Shout out tony parker too. thats true skill.

[warriorfan]

Kyrie is a circus show around the rim. He makes unbelievable finishes all the time.

[Kblaze8855]

Wade is one of those guys who makes you realize how the top of your head doesn’t matter. You play with your standing reach not your skull. Height almost doesn’t matter.

[Manny98]

LeBron - GOAT passer and transition scorer

CP3/Kyrie - GOAT handles

KD - GOAT midrange

Harden - GOAT at drawing fouls

[Kblaze8855]

You could argue that last one....



https://youtu.be/h68lIm3LcaM


But gotdamn is it annoying.

[tpols]

Harden has brought brazillian ju jitsu to the nba.

he's the royce gracie of basketball.

[FKAri]

Kyrie's handle is great but how can we really compare him and his contemporaries with guys from the past when all these guys today are refereed like they're the feature in an And1 mixtape.

[DoctorP]

Kyrie's handle is great but how can we really compare him and his contemporaries with guys from the past when all these guys today are refereed like they're the feature in an And1 mixtape.

the answer is yes.

[Smoke117]

Chris Paul has the GOAT BBIQ. He's just a genius at basketball.

[FireDavidKahn]

Give me Rodman's rebounding.

[FireDavidKahn]

Chris Paul has the GOAT BBIQ. He's just a genius at basketball.

This.

Chris Paul may be a flopping bitch but god damn is he a smart player and has the skills to back it all up.

[red1]

lebron arguable GOAT transition player. GOAT durability if he keeps playing at this level.

kd arguable GOAT 1on1 scorer

kyrie GOAT handles agreed

steph GOAT shooter

kawhi arguable GOAT perimeter defender

harden GOAT at drawing whistles

[red1]

Chris Paul has the GOAT BBIQ. He's just a genius at basketball.

I agree with this too Chris Paul arguable GOAT pointguard skills period

[imdaman99]

Westbrook arguably GOAT motor

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lebron is arguably the best driver to the rim. He and Mike are definitely GOAT-tier in that regard.

And yeah, Kyrie has the GOAT handle.

[KissMySwag]

Vince Carter is technically still active and arguably the greatest in game dunker if not dunker of all time.

[bizil]

Steph being the GOAT shooter and Kyrie with the GOAT handles are clear cut for me. Bron being the best slasher to the rack of all time is damn likely as well. Vince is the GOAT dunker when u consider all factors. Other than that, I don't think I can come up with any other elements in terms of a single skill.

[dreamshake]

Lebron is arguably the best driver to the rim. He and Mike are definitely GOAT-tier in that

Nope. Not even close. MJ yes. But guys like AI, Rose had GOAT-tier driving ability. Elite first step, handles and finishing ability. LeBron has been a horrible finisher this and last season. His first step is average or below. Honestly there’s no argument. Even Harden and Westbrook are better drivers than James.

[FKAri]

Steph being the GOAT shooter and Kyrie with the GOAT handles are clear cut for me. Bron being the best slasher to the rack of all time is damn likely as well. Vince is the GOAT dunker when u consider all factors. Other than that, I don't think I can come up with any other elements in terms of a single skill.

Harden. GOAT ref manipulator.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Nope. Not even close. MJ yes. But guys like AI, Rose had GOAT-tier driving ability. Elite first step, handles and finishing ability. LeBron has been a horrible finisher this and last season. His first step is average or below. Honestly there’s no argument. Even Harden and Westbrook are better drivers than James.

What? Miami and early Cleveland years, Lebron was EASILY one of the greatest finishers. Ever. A super athlete who bulldozed through defenders at will.

Bron also has comparable at-rim percentages to Jordan.

[iamgine]

Out of all the players in history who ever had a perfect FT season, Tony Snell made the most this season.

Snell 32/32 FT

You can say he's the GOAT of perfect FT season.

[Axe]

Stephen curry for goat loyalty to one team. Do you think this one actually qualifies? 🤔

[highwhey]

How high up the all time transition scorer list would you put the likes of Lebron and Giannis?

Both of them are unstoppable in transition but no more so than Doctor J really...or Magic in a different way. Or MJ of course.



You giving anyone GOAT tier pick and roll running status?


Shot blocking?

Rebounding?

Defense?

Let me have some names to ponder.
Giannis is exempt from fouls so he shouldn't be on any list.

[Kblaze8855]

Giannis is exempt from fouls so he shouldn't be on any list.


Hes 26th in fouls. Lebron is outside the top 100.

[SouBeachTalents]

Stephen curry for goat loyalty to one team. Do you think this one actually qualifies? ��
How the hell would he be GOAT at that when Dirk spent 21 years with the Mavs

[highwhey]

Hes 26th in fouls. Lebron is outside the top 100.

He should be #1 if the refs didn't look the other way on his blatant offensive fouls.

I wish I could get away with pulling off an NFL move at my local basketball park.

[Kblaze8855]

Everyones got their 3ball I guess. You’re his.

[Axe]

How the hell would he be GOAT at that when Dirk spent 21 years with the Mavs
Oh, so Dirk is currently still active in the roster now, isn't he? Read the freaking thread title again to see my point.

[Phoenix]

Oh, so Dirk is currently still active in the roster now, isn't he? Read the freaking thread title again to see my point.

Someone who's a 'GOAT' at loyalty can really only be measured once we have the full context of their careers, not while they're still active, if the measuring stick is seasons with a single team as I'm not sure how else this would be determined.

[Axe]

Someone who's a 'GOAT' at loyalty can really only be measured once we have the full context of their careers, not while they're still active, if the measuring stick is seasons with a single team as I'm not sure how else this would be determined.
Which is why i asked earlier if it qualifies. And atm, amongst the active players, he's currently the longest for staying in one team though.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Kawhi Leonard is the best perimeter defender of all time. And Jokic is the best passing center of all time if it counts.

[Phoenix]

Which is why i asked earlier if it qualifies. And atm, amongst the active players, he's currently the longest for staying in one team though.

Yes, I saw your question and my earlier post and this one I believe expresses that it doesn't or shouldn't qualify IMO. There are things we can see a player do now, like Steph's shooting, and say yeah nobody has ever been better. He can't 'not ' be the best shooter ever at this point because he can't undue what we've seen from him at his peak. Kyrie, while ball-handling is subjective, to my eye there's never been a craftier or more aesthetically pleasing dribbler. CP3's handle is maybe 'as tight' but more in a fundamental sense and not as and-1 flashy.

Team loyalty based on seasons played? Ok currently he's the longest tenured played, actually Russ also has 11 with one team before getting traded to the Rockets. But in a greatest of ALL TIME context, you really can't make that case because he's still playing and we don't know if he spends his whole career with the Warriors. And then it becomes a case of whether he plays 22 seasons with the Warriors, and we know that ain't happening.

[Axe]

No, I don't think it qualifies. There are things we can see a player do now, like Steph's shooting, and say yeah nobody has ever been better. He can't 'not ' be the best shooter ever at this point because he can't undue what we've seen from him at his peak. Team loyalty based on seasons played? Ok currently he's the longest tenured played, actually Russ also has 11 with one team before getting traded to the Rockets. But in a greatest of ALL TIME context, you really can't make that case because he's still playing and we don't know if he spends his whole career with the Warriors. And then it becomes a case of whether he plays 22 seasons with the Warriors, and we know that ain't happening.
Maybe i chose the wrong term but obviously you have a point. At least i got an answer now.

[superduper]

The GOAT coward....

[superduper]

Kawhi Leonard is the best perimeter defender of all time. And Jokic is the best passing center of all time if it counts.

He is definitely in the top tier.

[HakeemAlHilm]

KD is the goat at pull up mid range shots.

AD the best rim runner ever

[Phoenix]

Are we saying Kawhi is a better defender relatively in this era than Scottie was in 94 and 95? That's the most direct comparison I can think of.

[Axe]

Kyle lowry seems to be the best at drawing charges.

[highwhey]

Everyones got their 3ball I guess. You’re his.

Great response. It's funny but it didn't address my valid point.

[Kblaze8855]

3ball is often annoyed by people no longer caring about his points.

Once you make it clear you have no interest in a fair conversation why would a reasonable person consider your opinions?

Im not saying I don’t listen to you on any subject. Just not that one. You have made it clear you don’t intend to be reasonable.

If 3 ball had something to say about Jason Kidd I might read it and care. Not about Lebron. Same with you and Giannis.

[highwhey]

So what was your original argument, that Shaq and other superstars got away with fouls bs they are superstars?

I mean, i get it, but you can argue that even James Harden is skilled at doing it.

Giannis isn't nearly as good as people make him out to be bc his go to move is literally dropping his shoulder and shoving people. That IS NOT SKILL.

[highwhey]

https://i.postimg.cc/cCF2T7Wd/giphy.gif

[FireDavidKahn]

Wilt - Most milk men played

[FireDavidKahn]

3ball is often annoyed by people no longer caring about his points.

Once you make it clear you have no interest in a fair conversation why would a reasonable person consider your opinions?

Im not saying I don’t listen to you on any subject. Just not that one. You have made it clear you don’t intend to be reasonable.

If 3 ball had something to say about Jason Kidd I might read it and care. Not about Lebron. Same with you and Giannis.

3ball argues with people about how much p**** he gets
3ball gloated and admired Kobe that he was a risk taker and LeBron wasn't because he took helicopter rides
3ball has admitted on multiple occasions that he hasn't watched a game in years

[Overdrive]

Oh, so Dirk is currently still active in the roster now, isn't he? Read the freaking thread title again to see my point.

GOAT at something, who's still active means active player who's better at it than anyone that ever played. So Dirk's 21 seasons are the GOAT criteria.


Kyle lowry seems to be the best at drawing charges.

Obviously you don't get the concept. The thread isn't about current best.

Still not sure if I'd crown Curry GOAT shooter. His 3pt pull ups are insane, but I still don't like him not using an inbetween game. A GOAT shooter should be someone who can shoot it from anywhere. I'd say he's the GOAT 3pt shooter with Ray Allen as a contender for that title.

I think Lebron is #1 or #2 historically in the Bird-Pippen-Hill-... mold of players. He's not clear cut GOAT at any certain skill. Young MJ and young Wade were better slashers than him imo, others were just as good open court players, but among those player types he's the best or #2.

Klay is the best spot up 3pt shooter ever. It's not even close. He's a Kyle Korver(don't get me wrong Klay is a better overall player) who can get 60 points on catch and shoot threes.

[FireDavidKahn]

GOAT at something, who's still active means active player who's better at it than anyone that ever played. So Dirk's 21 seasons are the GOAT criteria.



Obviously you don't get the concept. The thread isn't about current best.

Still not sure if I'd crown Curry GOAT shooter. His 3pt pull ups are insane, but I still don't like him not using an inbetween game. A GOAT shooter should be someone who can shoot it from anywhere. I'd say he's the GOAT 3pt shooter with Ray Allen as a contender for that title.

I think Lebron is #1 or #2 historically in the Bird-Pippen-Hill-... mold of players. He's not clear cut GOAT at any certain skill. Young MJ and young Wade were better slashers than him imo, others were just as good open court players, but among those player types he's the best or #2.

Klay is the best spot up 3pt shooter ever. It's not even close. He's a Kyle Korver(don't get me wrong Klay is a better overall player) who can get 60 points on catch and shoot threes.

Curry can shoot it from anywhere, wth you talking about?

0-3': 64.7%
3-10': 41.5%
10-16': 45.4%
16-<3Pointer: 46.6%
3 pointer: 43.5%

Allen is:

0-3': 63%
3-10': 40%
10-16': 44.4%
16-<3Pointer: 43.6%
3 pointer: 40.3%

Curry is literally better everywhere.

[Overdrive]

Curry can shoot it from anywhere, wth you talking about?

0-3': 64.7%
3-10': 41.5%
10-16': 45.4%
16-<3Pointer: 46.6%
3 pointer: 43.5%

Allen is:

0-3': 63%
3-10': 40%
10-16': 44.4%
16-<3Pointer: 43.6%
3 pointer: 40.3%

Curry is literally better everywhere.

Number of shots he takes from the midrange? % is futile when he rarely pulls up from 16 ft.

If my life depended on a last second contested three I'd take Allen over Curry.
Also I don't think either are the GOAT overall shooters. Imo those are Bird, Durant and Dirk in no particular order.

[FireDavidKahn]

Number of shots he takes from the midrange? % is futile when he rarely pulls up from 16 ft.

If my life depended on a last second contested three I'd take Allen over Curry.
Also I don't think either are the GOAT overall shooters. Imo those are Bird, Durant and Dirk in no particular order.
Ok, breaking of how often they shoot by percentage:

0-3': 17.1%
3-10': 9%
10-16': 7.4%
16-<3Pointer: 18.4%
3 pointer: 48.1%

Allen is:

0-3': 18.3%
3-10': 9.4%
10-16': 13.2%
16-<3Pointer: 17.2%
3 pointer: 42%

So Curry actually takes more 16'+ shots (not including 3's) then Allen did.

[86Celtics]

So what was your original argument, that Shaq and other superstars got away with fouls bs they are superstars?

I mean, i get it, but you can argue that even James Harden is skilled at doing it.

Giannis isn't nearly as good as people make him out to be bc his go to move is literally dropping his shoulder and shoving people. That IS NOT SKILL.


Funnily enough, you don't seem so sensitive when James does it.

[ralph_i_el]

Wade is one of those guys who makes you realize how the top of your head doesn’t matter. You play with your standing reach not your skull. Height almost doesn’t matter.

He had all the advantages of a long reach, but a low center of gravity.

[highwhey]

Funnily enough, you don't seem so sensitive when James does it.

Lebron learned to shoot. He even now has a step back 3.

Meanwhile, Giannis is spamming the league with his football move. That's why he gets contained in the playoffs.

[Overdrive]

Ok, breaking of how often they shoot by percentage:

0-3': 17.1%
3-10': 9%
10-16': 7.4%
16-<3Pointer: 18.4%
3 pointer: 48.1%

Allen is:

0-3': 18.3%
3-10': 9.4%
10-16': 13.2%
16-<3Pointer: 17.2%
3 pointer: 42%

So Curry actually takes more 16'+ shots (not including 3's) then Allen did.

I don't know why you keep comparing him to Ray. I said both are the #1&2 best 3 pt shooters ever, not Ray being a better overall shooter. I stated who the best 3 shooters AT are imo. Can you give me their stats?

[3ball]

Lebron learned to shoot. He even now has a step back 3.

.
Lebron still isn't an elite jumpshooter

which is different from simply being able to shoot

Lebron isn't a skilled pull-up or turnaround shooter - for example, I can't even imagine him attempting a floating pull-up like "the shot" over Ehlo

Lebron simply isn't a great shooter from anywhere, nor a skilled jumpshooter

Ultimately, he doesn't have a "blow-the-game-open" jumper that routinely gets hot and requires getting the ball out of his hands (double-team).. Kerr and Stan Van Gundy opted not to double, preferring to face lebron's long-dribble and rarely hot jumper instead

[red1]

lebron might be the GOAT passing bigman as well

https://media1.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/source.gif



35 years old 6'9 260 built like malone passes the rock like stockton

https://media1.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/source.gif

[3ball]

lebron might be the GOAT passing bigman as well

https://media1.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/source.gif



35 years old 6'9 260 built like malone passes the rock like stockton

https://media1.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/source.gif
^^^ All that means nothing if you aren't a great shooter from anywhere, which lays the foundation for a passive approach in the clutch

and therefore countless losses such as the errant pass to JR, snatched from the jaws of victory (should've pulled up over Curry)

Meanwhile, his inability to seemlessly switch to the off-ball "shooter" role creates an exploitable brand that can't move the ball/wear down opponents as well, aka win the attrition battle at the championship level, aka 3/9

Carry on

[RRR3]

Jordan wasn’t a great shooter from everywhere either 3bitch.

Now shut up already

[red1]

^^^ All that means nothing if you aren't a great shooter from anywhere, which lays the foundation for a passive approach in the clutch

and therefore countless losses such as the errant pass to JR, snatched from the jaws of victory (should've pulled up over Curry)

Meanwhile, his inability to seemlessly switch to the off-ball "shooter" role creates an exploitable brand that can't move the ball/wear down opponents as well, aka win the attrition battle at the championship level, aka 3/9

Carry on

blah blah blah. Im sure you have MJ and 3 for 9 in there somewhere in your post.




you used to argue that lbj isn't a top 15 player of all time, not talking careers just measuring players - try 2nd GOAT.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/source.gif




you used to argue that lebrons ball-dominance would never win an NBA championship - 3 finals MVPs bitch.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/source.gif

[3ball]

Jordan wasn’t a great shooter from everywhere either 3bitch.

Now shut up already

Jordan is the goat mid-range jumpshooter - he rountinely shot 50% from mid-range on goat volume (scoring champion volume).. this matters because mid-range jumpshooting has the most variety and contested

In 1997, he made over 700 jumpshots - that's 250 more than Curry or Lebron's highest volume season, at better efficiency than Lebron's best jumpshooting season.

Again, MJ led the league every year on mostly mid-range jumpshots, especially from 96-98'

[red1]

Jordan wasn’t a great shooter from everywhere either 3bitch.

Now shut up already

Im using this quarantine as an opportunity to shit on 3ball and rub salt in his wounds. Im watching a lot of basketball highlights and using some time at home to blaze as well.


Im surprised he still posts and pushes his agenda after 2016.


oh wait "buh buh ray allen" became "buh buh buh kyrie."



he's still crying.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/source.gif

[Axe]

GOAT at something, who's still active means active player who's better at it than anyone that ever played. So Dirk's 21 seasons are the GOAT criteria.
The question i had earlier already got answered before you did so i don't even need you to tell me this.


Obviously you don't get the concept. The thread isn't about current best.
Tell me about it. Didn't know that a single word there was already enough to make you cry and simply tell me or assume that i didn't get the concept right.

So since you have a big problem about that, i wish i could still adjust by myself through editing that post of mine's and replacing "best" with "goat" but too bad. It's not even an option in this place.

Smh. People these days.

[Gougou]

Harden at drawing fouls and free throws.

[iamgine]

Jimmy Butler has been pretty elite at drawing fouls this season. Much more so than Harden ever was.

Butler: 13 FGA, 9 FTA

The GOAT could be between Dantley, Kevin Martin and Butler.

[Overdrive]

The question i had earlier already got answered before you did so i don't even need you to tell me this.


Tell me about it. Didn't know that a single word there was already enough to make you cry and simply tell me or assume that i didn't get the concept right.

So since you have a big problem about that, i wish i could still adjust by myself through editing that post of mine's and replacing "best" with "goat" but too bad. It's not even an option in this place.

Smh. People these days.

Ahaha the irony of you crying about my post. It wasn't even ill-intented.

[Axe]

Ahaha the irony of you crying about my post. It wasn't even ill-intented.
Lol stop smoking will ya. I was just telling the truth. 💩

[Stephonit]

Stephen Curry:

efficiency
off-ball
gravity
plus-minus
court coverage
point guard
free-throw
hockey assists

[ArbitraryWater]

Stephen Curry:

efficiency
off-ball
gravity
plus-minus
court coverage
point guard
free-throw
hockey assists


point guard is not a aspect of basketball

no, curry is not the GOAT at efficiency or plus-minus

[Whoah10115]

I can't believe that an actual discussion has been hijacked again.

Not by 3ball, but by people bothering to respond to him.

Anyway, Kawhi best perimeter defender, Jokic best passing big man, LeBron best passer or passing big man...

Lots of no.

Curry best shooter by a few 3ball rants.

[Stephonit]

point guard is not a aspect of basketball

no, curry is not the GOAT at efficiency or plus-minus

Yes he is.

[ShawkFactory]

errant pass to JR

??

[SouBeachTalents]

??
Give him a break, he hasn't watched a game in 20 years

[FKAri]

Yes he is.

Won a lucky ring in 2015 and faded to obscurity as soon as KD left. Jeremy Lin'esque.

[Stephonit]

Won a lucky ring in 2015 and faded to obscurity as soon as KD left. Jeremy Lin'esque.

He doesn't toot his own horn or have an army of PR people dependent on clicks propping him up. But he doesn't need to. His achievements speak for themselves. He's more like Tim Duncan—if Duncan had reached a higher peak.

[Manny98]

Klay Thompson - GOAT at scoring without the ball

DeAndre Jordan - GOAT at catching lobs

[LostCause]

Klay Thompson - GOAT at scoring without the ball



How the hell does he manage that?

Reggie Miller exists

[SouBeachTalents]

He doesn't toot his own horn or have an army of PR people dependent on clicks propping him up. But he doesn't need to. His achievements speak for themselves. He's more like Tim Duncan—if Duncan had reached a higher peak.
Except Duncan is a consensus top 10 player (and 3x FMVP). Curry will be neither of these things

[Manny98]

How the hell does he manage that?

Reggie Miller exists
Yes and Klay is better imo

[Stephonit]

Except Duncan is a consensus top 10 player (and 3x FMVP). Curry will be neither of these things

We'll see in a few years if that opinion lasts when more objective assessments will start to be drawn. He is the engine of the greatest team ever who was on the team when it set the regular season wins record and then the playoffs wins record. Curry is the only unanimous MVP in history. Really the only players who can compare are Jordan and Russell.

[LostCause]

Yes and Klay is better imo

Based on?

Reggie has GOAT-level offensive impact in the RS and Playoffs. His presence alone transformed his teams. All of which is verifiable through advanced metrics

Klay really doesn’t come close in that respect

[ArbitraryWater]

Based on?

Reggie has GOAT-level offensive impact in the RS and Playoffs. His presence alone transformed his teams. All of which is verifiable through advanced metrics

Klay really doesn’t come close in that respect

C'mon man.

Klay has 3 of the wildest records in NBA history.

He's better at what Reggie does and his saved his team's season twice.

A 70+ win team pretty much looked for him to bail them out of sticky situations and he did.

Reggie is more of a typical leader due to his ballhandling, but on any already competent / contending team, Klay is the better asset.

[Overdrive]

Klay Thompson - GOAT at scoring without the ball




How the hell does he manage that?

Reggie Miller exists

Posted that some pages ago. I think he's far away the GOAT in that aspect. Miller still played some on ball, but Klay scored 60 on 11 dribbles.

[Manny98]

Based on?

Reggie has GOAT-level offensive impact in the RS and Playoffs. His presence alone transformed his teams. All of which is verifiable through advanced metrics

Klay really doesn’t come close in that respect

Are you serious Klay has had literally multiple 40+ point games where he has barely taken any dribbles, pure off ball scoring.

It's definitely close between Reggie and Klay but you're idiotic if your going to sit and act like it's not close, cmon now


https://youtu.be/okLnXZhHPPc

[LostCause]

C'mon man.

Klay has 3 of the wildest records in NBA history.

He's better at what Reggie does and his saved his team's season twice.

A 70+ win team pretty much looked for him to bail them out of sticky situations and he did.

Reggie is more of a typical leader due to his ballhandling, but on any already competent / contending team, Klay is the better asset.

Klay can get hotter. Between him and Kobe he’s in the arguing or players who can get the hottest

But Reggie was a better offball player. Probably the GOAT at using screens of just moving without the ball. This is supported by most metrics and the eye test. He also attained these results in an era of less free-flowing offense on teams with nowhere near the offensive talent. So why would he be worse on a better team, with a 2-time MVP and much, much more spacing?

There’s a reason Miller and Bird are usually the first names mentioned when people say who they wished could play today. He was way ahead of his time.

I don’t even know what you’re referring to by claiming he was a leader due to his ballhandling. That’s not at all how anyone would describe Reggies game

[ArbitraryWater]

Klay can get hotter. Between him and Kobe he’s in the arguing or players who can get the hottest

But Reggie was a better offball player. Probably the GOAT at using screens of just moving without the ball. This is supported by most metrics and the eye test. He also attained these results in an era of less free-flowing offense on teams with nowhere near the offensive talent. So why would he be worse on a better team, with a 2-time MVP and much, much more spacing?

There’s a reason Miller and Bird are usually the first names mentioned when people say who they wished could play today. He was way ahead of his time.

I don’t even know what you’re referring to by claiming he was a leader due to his ballhandling. That’s not at all how anyone would describe Reggies game

of course its not, but thats Klay's main weakness, and the only reason why one could possibly take Reggie in my POV.

Klay must be better at off ball game or shooting because otherwise he wouldn't acquire more records and hot streaks in a more limited role.

Any contender that has a superstar leader, which neither Klay nor Reggie are capable of leading a title team are; would take Klay as complimentary player.

[Manny98]

Kyle lowry seems to be the best at drawing charges.

Ersan Illyasova


https://youtu.be/pyHqTRuQxTQ

[LostCause]

Are you serious Klay has had literally multiple 40+ point games where he has barely taken any dribbles, pure off ball scoring.

It's definitely close between Reggie and Klay but you're idiotic if your going to sit and act like it's not close, cmon now


https://youtu.be/okLnXZhHPPc

It’s not close going by actual measurable impact. Reggies offensive impact far exceeded Klays despite era difference and Reggie commanding more attention. Klay can get hotter than Reggie, but Reggies threat as an offball player was massive, hence his impact metrics

He also massively increased his scoring and efficiency in the play, arguably better than anyone in history, whereas Klay doesn’t always show up.

[ArbitraryWater]

It’s not close going by actual measurable impact. Reggies offensive impact far exceeded Klays despite era difference and Reggie commanding more attention. Klay can get hotter than Reggie, but Reggies threat as an offball player was massive, hence his impact metrics

He also massively increased his scoring and efficiency in the play, arguably better than anyone in history, whereas Klay doesn’t always show up.

You talk about Reggie like he's a different tier

He got to be his team's leader and cracked 22 ppg twice.

Klay as 3rd option is scoring more and hitting his 3's at a higher clip

it's definitely not an easy choice in either direction

[LostCause]

of course its not, but thats Klay's main weakness, and the only reason why one could possibly take Reggie in my POV.

Klay must be better at off ball game or shooting because otherwise he wouldn't acquire more records and hot streaks in a more limited role.

Any contender that has a superstar leader, which neither Klay nor Reggie are capable of leading a title team are; would take Klay as complimentary player.


I probably would take Klay but that’s in large part due to his defensive ability. I think Reggies game would allow him to fit next to anyone just as easily and he’d be a bit better even given his consistency and impact

Regardless I’ll agree to disagree

[Smoke117]

You talk about Reggie like he's a different tier

He got to be his team's leader and cracked 22 ppg twice.

Klay as 3rd option is scoring more and hitting his 3's at a higher clip

it's definitely not an easy choice in either direction

There's a big difference between being the main guy and target of an opposing defense and being a 2nd and then 2nd and 3rd guy to Steph and Durant. It's also pretty evident that Reggie would be scoring more in this era...every perimeter player that 90s era would be.

[Manny98]

It’s not close going by actual measurable impact. Reggies offensive impact far exceeded Klays despite era difference and Reggie commanding more attention. Klay can get hotter than Reggie, but Reggies threat as an offball player was massive, hence his impact metrics

He also massively increased his scoring and efficiency in the play, arguably better than anyone in history, whereas Klay doesn’t always show up.
Who is talking about impact?

I'm just talking about a players ability to move/score without dribbling the basketball which Klay is the best I have ever seen do

Reggie dribbled the ball and shot off the dribble a lot more than Klay did

[LostCause]

You talk about Reggie like he's a different tier

He got to be his team's leader and cracked 22 ppg twice.

Klay as 3rd option is scoring more and hitting his 3's at a higher clip

it's definitely not an easy choice in either direction

He kinda is in a different tier, really

His impact is shown better by advanced metrics than raw stats, though even then compare their playoff data and it’ll show

[LostCause]

Who is talking about impact?

I'm just talking about a players ability to move/score without dribbling the basketball which Klay is the best I have ever seen do

Reggie dribbled the ball and shot off the dribble a lot more than Klay did

If you’re referring strictly to catch and shoot, without dribbling, then sure Klay gets the edge

Offball scoring isn’t just catch and shoot though so when looking at offball scoring in it’s totality Reggie comes out on top.

Impact is relevant because that was his game. His efficiency as an offball scorer was right up there with the best in history.

[3ball]

Goat loser on the championship level of 3-pointer basketball is Lebron James

[red1]

Goat loser on the championship level of 3-pointer basketball is Lebron James
mr 3 of dem thangz 3 time finals MVP shoots the 3 better than mike himself. aka 3ball took that nice juicy sizzling L.

spent all that time in his mothers basement but still saw his theories go to shit - not top-15, wont win, cant win, he told us.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/62/20/51/622051586156e2eada5f7726e99df6f4.jpg
https://img.mshanken.com/d/cao/16_9/lebron-cigar-1600.jpg













plus woulda had more if our boy 'ree didnt go down in '15 and if kd didnt stack the deck at an all-time level. fulfilled the hype, went home and brought a championship to cleveland and ohio. you lost bitch. :oldlol:

[3ball]

plus woulda had more if our boy 'ree didnt go down in '15


:
15' is a black mark because we know the KD-less Warriors were weak - they needed a last resort (an 8 ppg bench player) to beat a 1-man team that was shooting 39%.

So lebron should've beaten the KD-less Warriors without a high-scoring teammate, just like Kawhi did in 2019, and like MJ won the 96/98 Finals and countless other series (see previous post), including beating the #1 SRS in 89' with no sidekick.

But unfortunately, Lebron can't beat good teams with scoring - he never beats good teams when he averages 35+ because it's too much long dribbling for each play he makes

[Manny98]

Goat loser on the championship level of 3-pointer basketball is Lebron James

No because they're players who are 0-3 in the finals like Karl Malone

[SouBeachTalents]

No because they're players who are 0-3 in the finals like Karl Malone
No, but LeBron has more Finals losses than him. He should've be losing in the first round like Jordan to not be seen as such loser by making the Finals so many times instead

[red1]

15' is a black mark because we know the KD-less Warriors were weak - they needed a last resort (an 8 ppg bench player) to beat a 1-man team that was shooting 39%.

So lebron should've beaten the KD-less Warriors without a high-scoring teammate, just like Kawhi did in 2019, and like MJ won the 96/98 Finals and countless other series (see previous post), including beating the #1 SRS in 89' with no sidekick.

But unfortunately, Lebron can't beat good teams with scoring - he never beats good teams when he averages 35+ because it's too much long dribbling for each play he makes

dude. excuse after excuse after excuse. ray allen. kyrie. blah blah blah. you just need to shut the **** up and bend the knee.


just bend the knee and admit that you lost. you said not top-15. in reality there haven't even been 4 players that have been better, nor 4 players that have had better careers. its almost undisputed top-5 now, CERTAINLY top 10.


yet you argued not top-15. "balldominant players will never make it into the top 10. lebron wont even be top 15 and cant win with his style"

how are you not a clown exactly? you dont know anything about basketball. you're just a pajama-wearing, excuse-making goof.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LikableDapperGermanpinscher-size_restricted.gif

[3ball]

.

yet you argued not top-15. "balldominant players will never make it into the top 10. lebron wont even be top 15 and cant win with his style"

how are you not a clown exactly? you dont know anything about basketball. you're just a pajama-wearing, excuse-making goof.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LikableDapperGermanpinscher-size_restricted.gif
I amended my top 11 to:

MJ
Bird
Wilt
Kareem
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Russell
Hakeem
Magic
Lebron


Ball-dominators get punished for their style needing goat help to win and lower team ceilings in general. .. even with Kareem, Magic still had 4 Finals losses and got destroyed as the favorite by goatBird.

[Whoah10115]

If you’re referring strictly to catch and shoot, without dribbling, then sure Klay gets the edge

Offball scoring isn’t just catch and shoot though so when looking at offball scoring in it’s totality Reggie comes out on top.

Impact is relevant because that was his game. His efficiency as an offball scorer was right up there with the best in history.

Very well said. Klay is better with economizing every movement, and every second once receiving the ball. He's much bigger, more athletic, and his release is insane.

Reggie's PPG lacks context not only because of era, but because so much of the Indiana offense is built around his movement without the ball.

[SouBeachTalents]

I amended my top 11 to:

MJ
Bird
Wilt
Kareem
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Russell
Hakeem
Magic
Lebron


Ball-dominators get punished for their style needing goat help to win and lower team ceilings in general. .. even with Kareem, Magic still had 4 Finals losses and got destroyed as the favorite by goatBird.
Damn, y'all really use the Finals losses shit with players other than LeBron too huh :lol

Believe me, Magic losing to a 40 win team in the first round in '81 and as a huge favorite to Houston in '86 was much worse than making the Finals

[3ball]

Damn, y'all really use the Finals losses shit with players other than LeBron too huh :lol

Believe me, Magic losing to a 40 win team in the first round in '81 and as a huge favorite to Houston in '86 was much worse than making the Finals
Magic had a weak conference and sufficient cast relative to his opposition in 81/86 and should've made the Finals..... just like Lebron in 09' and 10', who failed to deny a weak 1-timer like Dwight, something MJ never did

[red1]

I amended my top 11 to:

MJ
Bird
Wilt
Kareem
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Russell
Hakeem
Magic
Lebron


Ball-dominators get punished for their style needing goat help to win and lower team ceilings in general. .. even with Kareem, Magic still had 4 Finals losses and got destroyed as the favorite by goatBird.
:roll: :roll:


you're allowed to rank things however you see fit for your own list but you're just factually wrong. lebron has surpassed the careers of magic AND bird and he's certainly leapfrogged duncan and kobe. he's certainly done more than hakeem as well.

if you want to take these players as a snapshot of their absolute peak then lebron's peak is as dominant as any player not named mike or shaq. you're also ranking russell and wilt above lebron purely as a hater because you know they played in a different league - as far as prime and career is concerned I'd ALREADY take lebron over every player not named mike. career and peak-play.

and if he leads the lakers to any titles...


you've already caved and you're going to have to cave even further.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LikableDapperGermanpinscher-size_restricted.gif

[wagexslave]

Lebron, CP3, and Harden the top 3 GOAT floppers in NBA history.

[Whoah10115]

I take Magic and Bird over LeBron. I just do. I think they were, after Jordan, the best players to ever live.

[red1]

I take Magic and Bird over LeBron. I just do. I think they were, after Jordan, the best players to ever live.

thats cool bro. obviously different from my take.


3ball has been arguing with me for years that lebron wasn't even top-15. he had guys like moses malone kg and dirk above him. I cant remember but I think even barkley as well. also all-time players but hey you get my point.


I wasted a lot of time arguing with him before I realized he's actually just an insane fanboy - Im just enjoying shitting on him during these quarantine days. brings back the ol memories of shitting on him back then. :)

[72-10]

Stephen Curry is the best shooter I have seen. That's it as far as I'm concerned.

[ShawkFactory]

Stephen Curry is the best shooter I have seen. That's it as far as I'm concerned.

This is the only correct answer.

Westbrook having the best motor has some merit but that’s hard to quantify. There’s been plenty of bench guys who do the same who just aren’t as talented/athletic.

[72-10]

Very well said. Klay is better with economizing every movement, and every second once receiving the ball. He's much bigger, more athletic, and his release is insane.

Reggie's PPG lacks context not only because of era, but because so much of the Indiana offense is built around his movement without the ball.

Whoah since Klay has usually been third and at best second option on his team he didn't have to contend with the world's top defenders most of time, while, since Reggie was the first option in his team's set offense, and due to the league in which he played, he contended with most of the best perimeter defenders of all time - Rodman, Pippen, Jordan, Payton, Mason, etc. Klay also isn't nearly as clutch as Reggie; Reggie has all these great moments. Klay might be almost as good of a shooter as Reggie, but Reggie is decisively the better player.

[Axe]

Or probably Klay also benefitted playing for a much better team than Reggie ever did in his career.

[Phoenix]

Reggie just seemed to have a flair for the big play and moment that I don't see in Klay. Klay can definitely get hotter but those moments were typically once or twice a year where he'd have a nuclear game. Reggie is more dangerous and consistent over a series and as the guy you'd want to lead your team.

[ImKobe]

Stephen Curry is the best shooter I have seen. That's it as far as I'm concerned.

Best 3PT and FT shooter. Chris Paul is arguably the most talented playmaker/pure passer, Kevin Durant is arguably the GOAT mid-range shooter, his percentages on long 2s are insane and he's unstoppable from 10-16 ft when he posts up.

Obviously, all the best post & iso scorers are from the 80-04 era with Bird, McHale, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, Jordan, Kobe, Dirk but this era is probably the most talented when it comes to shooting & passing the ball, not so much on the defensive side though.

[Whoah10115]

Whoah since Klay has usually been third and at best second option on his team he didn't have to contend with the world's top defenders most of time, while, since Reggie was the first option in his team's set offense, and due to the league in which he played, he contended with most of the best perimeter defenders of all time - Rodman, Pippen, Jordan, Payton, Mason, etc. Klay also isn't nearly as clutch as Reggie; Reggie has all these great moments. Klay might be almost as good of a shooter as Reggie, but Reggie is decisively the better player.

I agree, tho if there's an argument for Klay it would mainly be his defense.

[Whoah10115]

thats cool bro. obviously different from my take.


3ball has been arguing with me for years that lebron wasn't even top-15. he had guys like moses malone kg and dirk above him. I cant remember but I think even barkley as well. also all-time players but hey you get my point.


I wasted a lot of time arguing with him before I realized he's actually just an insane fanboy - Im just enjoying shitting on him during these quarantine days. brings back the ol memories of shitting on him back then. :)

I honestly don't even think he feels that way. If he were to take one or two over LeBron then maybe he'd have a unique take, but taking them all is him trying to prove his point.

Even then he recently posted LeBron 12th or something, which means that at worst he's all-time elite.

He makes great points and analyzes well. The problems are that he resorts to Trump-like insults that are not only ridiculous, but also completely contradict the fact that he ranks LeBron in the top 10-15 range...he talks about him like he were a stat-padder on a 25win team. If that's true then any list with James on it is invalidated.

And he's obviously obsessed with criticizing LeBron, way more than he reps Jordan. It's like a more cultivated, intelligent, clinically recognizable version of jlauber, but negative.

[Kblaze8855]

Whoah since Klay has usually been third and at best second option on his team he didn't have to contend with the world's top defenders most of time, while, since Reggie was the first option in his team's set offense, and due to the league in which he played, he contended with most of the best perimeter defenders of all time - Rodman, Pippen, Jordan, Payton, Mason, etc. Klay also isn't nearly as clutch as Reggie; Reggie has all these great moments. Klay might be almost as good of a shooter as Reggie, but Reggie is decisively the better player.


Reggie had more in his bag but Klay matches him in the only thing he was exceptional in....outside shooting. And has been a considerably better defender. The case for Reggie is more abstract and accomplishment based than basketball skills.

I didn’t like Reggie but obviously he would be perfect for this league and likely a bigger star in it than Klay. He’d still be worse on defense though and when compared to one of the only people in history who match or exceed his shooting?

A reasonable person could pick Klay.


Edit....

Reggie was also much better than Klay drawing foul so I think he could live at the line today which is a bonus but still....defense factors in.

[Da_Realist]

I take Magic and Bird over LeBron. I just do. I think they were, after Jordan, the best players to ever live.

This is my position but out of respect I'll say these three are the best I've seen play.

[Manny98]

Despite playing second fiddle to Curry his entire career Klay already has more seasons where he has averaged at least 22.5ppg per 36 and has only one less all NBA selection

Klay could easily average 25ppg if he was a first option on a team and got to play with a decent pass first point guard next to him like Chris Paul

[72-10]

This is my position but out of respect I'll say these three are the best I've seen play.

There were many an amazing two-way players in that era.

[72-10]

Reggie had more in his bag but Klay matches him in the only thing he was exceptional in....outside shooting. And has been a considerably better defender. The case for Reggie is more abstract and accomplishment based than basketball skills.

I didn’t like Reggie but obviously he would be perfect for this league and likely a bigger star in it than Klay. He’d still be worse on defense though and when compared to one of the only people in history who match or exceed his shooting?

A reasonable person could pick Klay.


Edit....

Reggie was also much better than Klay drawing foul so I think he could live at the line today which is a bonus but still....defense factors in.

The multiple points to your argument has me convinced that Klay really might be greater than Reggie. The changes in racial disparity might play a role as well i.e. the league didn't have as diverse of an ethnic makeup representative of the nation's (or world's) diaspora back in 1980 albeit you had teams like the 1979-80 New York Knicks wherein all 15 players were black. Someone who's really been watching basketball closely might choose Dwight Howard as their GOAT rebounder, as well.

Edit: I think there are times whern I would want Dwight to get the rebound more than any other player on the team, but there's also certain times where I would not and would rather have him defending out on the wing.

[Axe]

I didn't want to backread just to see if someone already mentioned it in this thread but I can't overlook the fact that lebron james currently has 4,402 turnovers.