LeBron Was Favored In Only 2 Finals

[FireDavidKahn]

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-playoffs-series/?y=all&o=d&fv=&hv=&fd=

NBA FinalsSan Antonio Spurs(3) -450 Cleveland Cavaliers(2) +360 San Antonio Spurs 4-0

NBA Finals Miami Heat (2) -175 Dallas Mavericks (3) +155 Dallas Mavericks 4-2

NBA Finals Oklahoma City Thunder (2) -175 Miami Heat (2) +155 Miami Heat 4-1

NBA Finals Miami Heat (1) -220 San Antonio Spurs (2) +180 Miami Heat 4-3

NBA Finals San Antonio Spurs (1) -155 Miami Heat (2) +135 San Antonio Spurs 4-1

NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +190 Golden State Warriors 4-2

NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (1) +180 Cleveland Cavaliers 4-3

NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -300 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +250 Golden State Warriors 4-1

NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (2) -1075 Cleveland Cavaliers (4) +688 Golden State Warriors 4-0

Just goes to show you that the people who are putting down actual money on these games that tend to take scouting way more seriously then the media are often way more accurate. It's been plain as day that LeBron has always been dragging bad supporting casts. Top heavy doesn't mean you have a great supporting cast.

A good measuring stick is looking at the top 8/9 guys on a team. Most of the time come play offs that's about the size of the rotation. 1 star next to you does not mean you are a stacked team if the rest of the players are scrubs.

[red1]

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-playoffs-series/?y=all&o=d&fv=&hv=&fd=

NBA FinalsSan Antonio Spurs(3) -450 Cleveland Cavaliers(2) +360 San Antonio Spurs 4-0

NBA Finals Miami Heat (2) -175 Dallas Mavericks (3) +155 Dallas Mavericks 4-2

NBA Finals Oklahoma City Thunder (2) -175 Miami Heat (2) +155 Miami Heat 4-1

NBA Finals Miami Heat (1) -220 San Antonio Spurs (2) +180 Miami Heat 4-3

NBA Finals San Antonio Spurs (1) -155 Miami Heat (2) +135 San Antonio Spurs 4-1

NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +190 Golden State Warriors 4-2

NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (1) +180 Cleveland Cavaliers 4-3

NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -300 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +250 Golden State Warriors 4-1

NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (2) -1075 Cleveland Cavaliers (4) +688 Golden State Warriors 4-0

Just goes to show you that the people who are putting down actual money on these games that tend to take scouting way more seriously then the media are often way more accurate. It's been plain as day that LeBron has always been dragging bad supporting casts. Top heavy doesn't mean you have a great supporting cast.

A good measuring stick is looking at the top 8/9 guys on a team. Most of the time come play offs that's about the size of the rotation. 1 star next to you does not mean you are a stacked team if the rest of the players are scrubs.

holy shit great post OP.


what an overachiever. thats coming in at 50% over quota. :eek:

[SouBeachTalents]

Yet I've seen clowns on here claim that other players win 6 rings in his place :lol

[FireDavidKahn]

Yet I've seen clowns on here claim that other players win 6 rings in his place :lol

NO kidding. They also think that preseason favorites means anything. Preseason favorites sure as hell can't foretell how the team is looking coming into the Finals, ie. health and other shit like that.

[FKAri]

So he's 3/2 while someone like MJ's 6/6.

1.5 > 1

I always knew MJ stans couldn't do fractions

[FireDavidKahn]

So he's 3/2 while someone like MJ's 6/6.

1.5 > 1

I always knew MJ stans couldn't do fractions

LeHaters unknowingly were LeFans all along!

1.5 rings (in fractions)!!!!!!!!!!

[Overdrive]

The only reason OKC was favoured was '11.

[FireDavidKahn]

The only reason OKC was favoured was '11.

Vegas doesn't work like that.

[warriorfan]

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-playoffs-series/?y=all&o=d&fv=&hv=&fd=

NBA FinalsSan Antonio Spurs(3) -450 Cleveland Cavaliers(2) +360 San Antonio Spurs 4-0

NBA Finals Miami Heat (2) -175 Dallas Mavericks (3) +155 Dallas Mavericks 4-2

NBA Finals Oklahoma City Thunder (2) -175 Miami Heat (2) +155 Miami Heat 4-1

NBA Finals Miami Heat (1) -220 San Antonio Spurs (2) +180 Miami Heat 4-3

NBA Finals San Antonio Spurs (1) -155 Miami Heat (2) +135 San Antonio Spurs 4-1

NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +190 Golden State Warriors 4-2

NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (1) +180 Cleveland Cavaliers 4-3

NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -300 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +250 Golden State Warriors 4-1

NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (2) -1075 Cleveland Cavaliers (4) +688 Golden State Warriors 4-0

Just goes to show you that the people who are putting down actual money on these games that tend to take scouting way more seriously then the media are often way more accurate. It's been plain as day that LeBron has always been dragging bad supporting casts. Top heavy doesn't mean you have a great supporting cast.

A good measuring stick is looking at the top 8/9 guys on a team. Most of the time come play offs that's about the size of the rotation. 1 star next to you does not mean you are a stacked team if the rest of the players are scrubs.

Lebron not being favored is indicative to him being underwhelming in the finals. Especially after 2011. After 2011 he legitimately established himself as the greatest Finals choker of all time. Look it up. Does any other superstar have a bigger choke than LeBron in 2011? So now we have that established, that’s automatically going to play into the odds and make him “less of a favorite”. Vegas isn’t stupid but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that after 2011, betting on LeBron in the Finals is not a wise strategy. Therefore the odds set him as unfavorited. He’s laying in the bed he made.

[FireDavidKahn]

Lebron not being favored is indicative to him being underwhelming in the finals. Especially after 2011. After 2011 he legitimately established himself as the greatest Finals choker of all time. Look it up. Does any other superstar have a bigger choke than LeBron in 2011? So now we have that established, that’s automatically going to play into the odds and make him “less of a favorite”. Vegas isn’t stupid but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that after 2011, betting on LeBron in the Finals is not a wise strategy. Therefore the odds set him as unfavorited. He’s laying in the bed he made.

:roll:

Not even close. After 2011 he went on to win 2 straight Finals:roll:

[Overdrive]

Of course it does. By then Lebron wasn't seen as someone who can win the championship. Do you think LV bookies go that much into detail about players on any sports? They judge winning odds by math and history.

[FireDavidKahn]

Of course it does. By then Lebron wasn't seen as someone who can win the championship. Do you think LV bookies go that much into detail about players on any sports? They judge winning odds by math and history.

No I mean the narrative that 2011 would somehow influence the bookies in the future is stupid since LeBron won 2 consecutive Finals after that. You really think Vegas would care what happened the year before he won 2 straight?

[warriorfan]

No I mean the narrative that 2011 would somehow influence the bookies in the future is stupid since LeBron won 2 consecutive Finals after that. You really think Vegas would care what happened the year before he won 2 straight?

Two rights don’t make a wrong. If you can even call it two. More like one in a half if we are being generous. For one how many teams have won an NBA title with their best and second best player being 23 and 22 years old? Answer is zero. Then LeBron was a Hail Mary away from losing to old man Duncan and a 21 year old Kawhi Leonard. Those arnt exactly decisive decisions rather than being in the right place at the right time. Which is reflected in the odds of the rest of his Finals appearances.

[FireDavidKahn]

Two rights don’t make a wrong. If you can even call it two. More like one in a half if we are being generous. For one how many teams have won an NBA title with their best and second best player being 23 and 22 years old? Answer is zero. Then LeBron was a Hail Mary away from losing to old man Duncan and a 21 year old Kawhi Leonard. Those arnt exactly decisive decisions rather than being in the right place at the right time. Which is reflected in the odds of the rest of his Finals appearances.

He won one he was favored in and one he wasn't. Exactly as Vegas predicted. From then on out the outcome was always what was predicted. 2011 literally had no effect on the odds in the future.

This isn't opinion, it's facts literally from the bookies.

[hold this L]

Lebron is the only athlete I have ever heard analysists and his idiotic stans talk proudly about him being seen as an overachiever in finals because the odds were for the other team.


A quick example from 1 of the 3 sports I follow, soccer. Real Madrid, by far the best European team of all time made its 3rd final in a row winning the previous two finals making it the first team ever to win B2B Champions League titles in the new format in the last couple of decades. Liverpool despite having an amazing history, finally became relevant in the CL and made the final. Other than here and there (mostly garbage US analysts), the talk wasn't about Madrid being some magical overwhelming favorite. And when they won 3x in a row, Liverpool wasn't given any excuses but was murdered by the media for losing, like every single team that loses a final in the CL. I guess this is a roundabout way of stating what a pathetic fan the Kat stan is. Maybe go look at more obscure, pointless stats to kiss your hero's ass some more. I really hate this loser mentality attitude, and it's not like Lebron needs it. Yes he is a loser in the finals, but that doesn't change that he is one of the best players of all time.

[FireDavidKahn]

Lebron is the only athlete I have ever heard analysists and his idiotic stans talk proudly about him being seen as an overachiever in finals because the odds were for the other team.


A quick example from 1 of the 3 sports I follow, soccer. Real Madrid, by far the best European team of all time made its 3rd final in a row winning the previous two finals making it the first team ever to win B2B Champions League titles in the new format in the last couple of decades. Liverpool despite having an amazing history, finally became relevant in the CL and made the final. Other than here and there (mostly garbage US analysts), the talk wasn't about Madrid being some magical overwhelming favorite. And when they won 3x in a row, Liverpool wasn't given any excuses but was murdered by the media for losing, like every single team that loses a final in the CL. I guess this is a roundabout way of stating what a pathetic fan the Kat stan is. Maybe go look at more obscure, pointless stats to kiss your hero's ass some more. I really hate this loser mentality attitude, and it's not like Lebron needs it. Yes he is a loser in the finals, but that doesn't change that he is one of the best players of all time.

Sports betting is obscure?

[red1]

Lebron is the only athlete I have ever heard analysists and his idiotic stans talk proudly about him being seen as an overachiever in finals because the odds were for the other team.


A quick example from 1 of the 3 sports I follow, soccer. Real Madrid, by far the best European team of all time made its 3rd final in a row winning the previous two finals making it the first team ever to win B2B Champions League titles in the new format in the last couple of decades. Liverpool despite having an amazing history, finally became relevant in the CL and made the final. Other than here and there (mostly garbage US analysts), the talk wasn't about Madrid being some magical overwhelming favorite. And when they won 3x in a row, Liverpool wasn't given any excuses but was murdered by the media for losing, like every single team that loses a final in the CL. I guess this is a roundabout way of stating what a pathetic fan the Kat stan is. Maybe go look at more obscure, pointless stats to kiss your hero's ass some more. I really hate this loser mentality attitude, and it's not like Lebron needs it. Yes he is a loser in the finals, but that doesn't change that he is one of the best players of all time.

you're a warriors fan, of course you don't like it. :oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

Of course it does. By then Lebron wasn't seen as someone who can win the championship. Do you think LV bookies go that much into detail about players on any sports? They judge winning odds by math and history.

That's what I was doing to say. 2011 factors in some of the series after that. There is no way the 2012 Thunder on paper are even close to the 2012 Heat. But they played well as a team and the heat's chemistry was still called into question given how they wet the bed the previous year and how poorly they played against Boston.

[Axe]

That's what I was doing to say. 2011 factors in some of the series after that. There is no way the 2012 Thunder on paper are even close to the 2012 Heat. But they played well as a team and the heat's chemistry was still called into question given how they wet the bed the previous year and how poorly they played against Boston.
The thunder still had the homecourt advantage over the heat in the finals during that year due to a better regular-season record though.

[Mr Feeny]

The thunder still had the homecourt advantage over the heat in the finals during that year due to a better regular-season record though.

Shaq's Lakers didn't have home court advantage during some of their title years. Neither did Jordan's Bulls. It doesnt matter when you have a better team. And the Heat were a better team. A much more stacked team than the 2012 Thunder which consisted of a bunch of babies who hadn't hit their primes or achieved anything.

[Axe]

Shaq's Lakers didn't have home court advantage during some of their title years. Neither did Jordan's Bulls. It doesnt matter when you have a better team. And the Heat were a better team. A much more stacked team than the 2012 Thunder which consisted of a bunch of babies who hadn't hit their primes or achieved anything.
Of course the heat had a former fmvp in dwyane wade and finals runner-up lebron james to lead their team with other several players who also played with them during the finals in the year prior whereas the thunder lineup consists of first-time finalists, aside from veterans or role players like fisher, mohammed and perkins. I guess that helps to make them appear more stacked than anybody else would think but this is not always the case for other finalists teams.

[Mr Feeny]

Of course the heat had a former fmvp in dwyane wade and finals runner-up lebron james to lead their team with other several players who also played with them during the finals in the year prior whereas the thunder lineup consists of first-time finalists, aside from veterans or role players like fisher, mohammed and perkins. I guess that helps to make them appear more stacked than anybody else would think but this is not always the case for other finalists teams.

I agree. That's why I wouldnt consider the 2014 heat a stacked team. It wouldn't apply because Wade was a shell of himself as were most of the players they had. Allen was on his last legs. Bosh wasn't the same Bosh.

But in 2012, they were all in top form.

[Axe]

I agree. That's why I wouldnt consider the 2014 heat a stacked team. It wouldn't apply because Wade was a shell of himself as were most of the players they had. Allen was on his last legs. Bosh wasn't the same Bosh.

But in 2012, they were all in top form.
Just by looking at their regular season record in that season would be enough to tell anybody that they aren't as stacked compared to their previous years.

[Mr Feeny]

Just by looking at their regular season record in that season would be enough to tell anybody that they aren't as stacked compared to their previous years.

Again, I agree with that generally speaking, but not in all cases. The 93 Bulls had 57 wins because Jordan and Pippen weren't even practicing during a gokd stretch of the season. They were mentally and physically exhausted after not having their usual break in the 92 offseason and Jackson wasn't concerned about the regular season.

They were still a better team than the 62 win 98 team. Shaq's Lakers similarly had mediocre records during some seasons and were still much better than their record.

The 2006 Pistons had a much better record than the 2004 Pistons and they weren't as good.

But I agree with you, overall. As a general rule, it stands

[Phoenix]

The thunder still had the homecourt advantage over the heat in the finals during that year due to a better regular-season record though.

The Thunder shouldn't have been favored that series.Bear in mind this is the year after the 2011 finals, so confidence in Lebron on the finals stage wasn't exactly high at that time. If the Heat had won in 2011 with Lebron performing well I don't see why they'd be underdogs against the unproven baby Thunder. They would have been seen as defending champs with a peak Lebron, prime Wade/Bosh with an experience edge against OKC.

[Axe]

Again, I agree with that generally speaking, but not in all cases. The 93 Bulls had 57 wins because Jordan and Pippen weren't even practicing during a gokd stretch of the season. They were mentally and physically exhausted after not having their usual break in the 92 offseason and Jackson wasn't concerned about the regular season.

They were still a better team than the 62 win 98 team. Shaq's Lakers similarly had mediocre records during some seasons and were still much better than their record.

The 2006 Pistons had a much better record than the 2004 Pistons and they weren't as good.

But I agree with you, overall. As a general rule, it stands
Sure. In fact, the houston rockets in their 1995 championship season only had a 47-35 record which placed them as the 6th seed in their conference but were able to repeat as back-to-back champions. Facing a 57-win orlando magic team led by o'neal and hardaway in the finals, they're very lucky for that one, i guess.

[86Celtics]

Lebron is the only athlete I have ever heard analysists and his idiotic stans talk proudly about him being seen as an overachiever in finals because the odds were for the other team.


A quick example from 1 of the 3 sports I follow, soccer. Real Madrid, by far the best European team of all time made its 3rd final in a row winning the previous two finals making it the first team ever to win B2B Champions League titles in the new format in the last couple of decades. Liverpool despite having an amazing history, finally became relevant in the CL and made the final. Other than here and there (mostly garbage US analysts), the talk wasn't about Madrid being some magical overwhelming favorite. And when they won 3x in a row, Liverpool wasn't given any excuses but was murdered by the media for losing, like every single team that loses a final in the CL. I guess this is a roundabout way of stating what a pathetic fan the Kat stan is. Maybe go look at more obscure, pointless stats to kiss your hero's ass some more. I really hate this loser mentality attitude, and it's not like Lebron needs it. Yes he is a loser in the finals, but that doesn't change that he is one of the best players of all time.

That's true. Real Madrid were favourites but nobody was discounting Liverpool's chances. And when they did lose, the talk wasn't that Madrid was an unbeatable opponent but it centered on the goalkeeper, Karius who had gifted two goals. There didn't search for excuses; instead they addressed their weaknesses by massively upgrading on Karius in the following summer and going on to win the Champions League the next season.

[Phoenix]

Again, I agree with that generally speaking, but not in all cases. The 93 Bulls had 57 wins because Jordan and Pippen weren't even practicing during a gokd stretch of the season. They were mentally and physically exhausted after not having their usual break in the 92 offseason and Jackson wasn't concerned about the regular season.

They were still a better team than the 62 win 98 team. Shaq's Lakers similarly had mediocre records during some seasons and were still much better than their record.

The 2006 Pistons had a much better record than the 2004 Pistons and they weren't as good.

But I agree with you, overall. As a general rule, it stands

Hell the 2001 Lakers were better than the 2000 team and won like 10 less games IIRC. Alot of people put too much stock in season records from year to year but there's so many things that can occur over the course of a season. Teams take the gas off, back to back, mid season apathy in January, injuries, lineup experimenting, all kinds of intangibles. The playoffs always define the true measure of a team.

[Axe]

Hell the 2001 Lakers were better than the 2000 team and won like 10 less games IIRC. Alot of people put too much stock in season records from year to year but there's so many things that can occur over the course of a season. Teams take the gas off, back to back, mid season apathy in January, injuries, lineup experimenting, all kinds of intangibles. The playoffs always define the true measure of a team.
The most notable example; the 73-9 golden state warriors team of the 2015-16 season that just came back from a 3-1 deficit against the thunder in the 2016 western finals, only to blow a similar 3-1 lead against the cavaliers in the actual finals of the same year.

[Phoenix]

The most notable example; the 73-9 golden state warriors team of the 2015-16 season that just came back from a 3-1 deficit against the thunder in the 2016 western finals, only to blow a similar 3-1 lead against the cavaliers in the actual finals of the same year.

Another example of not taking team record too seriously and piggybacking off your example. The 2016 Warriors won 73 games. The team with Durant a year later won 67. There's obviously no argument which version was better.

[Axe]

Another example of not taking team record too seriously and piggybacking off your example. The 2016 Warriors won 73 games. The team with Durant a year later won 67. There's obviously no argument which version was better.
The one with a championship banner and ring, of course.

[Phoenix]

The one with a championship banner and ring, of course.

Yes, you have to tell that to those who harp on records.

[Hey Yo]

Shaq's Lakers didn't have home court advantage during some of their title years. Neither did Jordan's Bulls. It doesnt matter when you have a better team. And the Heat were a better team. A much more stacked team than the 2012 Thunder which consisted of a bunch of babies who hadn't hit their primes or achieved anything.
Then how did those bunch of babies dominate the defending champs Dallas, then the Lakers and then San Antonio?? Losing only 3gms in route to the Finals?

[Mr Feeny]

Then how did those bunch of babies dominate the defending champs Dallas, then the Lakers and then San Antonio?? Losing only 3gms in route to the Finals?

Should I even bother responding to this tripe?

[ImKobe]

Shows how weak the LEastern Conference was. All those Finals appearances are nothing but empty stats in mostly one-sided losses.


The one with a championship banner and ring, of course.

Obviously, they were MUCH better, as indicated by their 16 - 1 Playoff record with 15 straight wins against better competition than the year before. The 2017 Cavs were much better offensively than the 2016 version, Lebron and Irving both went off in the Finals with Kevin Love playing better and they still got demolished.

[Axe]

Shows how weak the LEastern Conference was. All those Finals appearances are nothing but empty stats in mostly one-sided losses.



Obviously, they were MUCH better, as indicated by their 16 - 1 Playoff record with 15 straight wins against better competition than the year before. The 2017 Cavs were much better offensively than the 2016 version, Lebron and Irving both went off in the Finals with Kevin Love playing better and they still got demolished.
Lmao obviously.

While the cavs seem to get better during that year despite winning lesser games in the regular season, kd went to golden state and was playing there already. In their 3rd consecutive meet-up in the finals, of course the cavs had no answer to kd so that's why they got demolished inevitably. At that rate, the dubs have already established themselves as a renowned dynasty during that time.

[ImKobe]

Lmao obviously.

While the cavs seem to get better during that year despite winning lesser games in the regular season, kd went to golden state and was playing there already. In their 3rd consecutive meet-up in the finals, of course the cavs had no answer to kd so that's why they got demolished inevitably. At that rate, the dubs have already established themselves as a renowned dynasty during that time.

Lebron couldn't stop anything defensively, the Cavs' P&R defense was getting shredded every night, though they did have that one game where they went nuclear from 3 after the refs called a foul on every play to give the Cavs momentum to avoid the sweep.

[Axe]

Lebron couldn't stop anything defensively, the Cavs' P&R defense was getting shredded every night, though they did have that one game where they went nuclear from 3 after the refs called a foul on every play to give the Cavs momentum to avoid the sweep.
That, and also they have a crappy coach who's inconsistent at implementing their defense, which is why the cavs execute it poorly that led to their downfall as well.

[Hey Yo]

Should I even bother responding to this tripe?
It's been 2hrs so it's safe to say you surprisingly did a smart thing for once and abandoned the thread.


Not sure why you even post really, cause it's quite clear you're ****ing clueless about basketball.

[FKAri]

Lebron is the only athlete I have ever heard analysists and his idiotic stans talk proudly about him being seen as an overachiever in finals because the odds were for the other team.


A quick example from 1 of the 3 sports I follow, soccer. Real Madrid, by far the best European team of all time made its 3rd final in a row winning the previous two finals making it the first team ever to win B2B Champions League titles in the new format in the last couple of decades. Liverpool despite having an amazing history, finally became relevant in the CL and made the final. Other than here and there (mostly garbage US analysts), the talk wasn't about Madrid being some magical overwhelming favorite. And when they won 3x in a row, Liverpool wasn't given any excuses but was murdered by the media for losing, like every single team that loses a final in the CL. I guess this is a roundabout way of stating what a pathetic fan the Kat stan is. Maybe go look at more obscure, pointless stats to kiss your hero's ass some more. I really hate this loser mentality attitude, and it's not like Lebron needs it. Yes he is a loser in the finals, but that doesn't change that he is one of the best players of all time.

Lebron was the most hyped prospect to ever enter the league. He was labelled The Chosen One by ESPN (or was it SI? Either way he was on the cover of both as a child). You're telling me THAT guy OVERachieved? Wow! How GOAT is our GOD?! LeGOAT!!

[Hey Yo]

Of course it does. By then Lebron wasn't seen as someone who can win the championship. Do you think LV bookies go that much into detail about players on any sports? They judge winning odds by math and history.
OKC were the favorites due to

1. KD was the reigning 3x scoring champion and All-NBA.
2. Russ All-NBA
3. Harden 6MOTY
4. Ibaka All-Defensive NBA, was DPOY runner-up and led the league in blocked shots.
5. OKC swept the defending champions while going 12-3 in route to the Finals.
6. Bosh missed 9 straight playoff games, only played in 3 ECF games while starting in none of them.

Safe to say those reasons are more legit than just saying "look at 2011"

[Overdrive]

OKC were the favorites due to

1. KD was the reigning 3x scoring champion and All-NBA.
2. Russ All-NBA
3. Harden 6MOTY
4. Ibaka All-Defensive NBA, was DPOY runner-up and led the league in blocked shots.
5. OKC swept the defending champions while going 12-3 in route to the Finals.
6. Bosh missed 9 straight playoff games, only played in 3 ECF games while starting in none of them.

Safe to say those reasons are more legit than just saying "look at 2011"

Miami had the reigning MVP, a HOFer in his prime, good ourside shooting, one of the best 3 & D guys at that time.

The defending champs lost half of their team in the off season. That's like saying the '19 Cavs were the defending EC champs.

[warriorfan]

KD and Westbrook were 23 years old with zero Finals experience. The Heat should have been an obvious favorite if it wasn’t for LeBron’s rep as a choker that he established in 2011.

[Charlie Sheen]

All of his Cavs teams were overmatched on paper. Lets get that out of the way right now.

The Heat teams though? I don't think it's a fair characterization to say only 2 of those 4 times was Lebron a favorite because it implies that he was an underdog the other 2 times.

Edit: I get you're going strictly by betting odds, but that's not always a true reflection of history

[deathawaitu]

OP just proved Lebron is the best player in the world for only 2 years in his whole career =(

Universal recognized best player will always make their team the favorite

Thanks OP for proving MJ > Lebron

Thread back fired l :lol

[Bronbron23]

The fact that hes been considered an underdog so often could also be a reflection on him and how others look at him. Even diehard lebron fans dont have much faith in lebrons game. If hes the goat and as great as you say he is you should always think hes gonna win. I know i always thought mj was gonna win, even in the 80's. I never said he lost because he was supposed to lol. Thats weak as hell. I guarantee if you give mj a top 3 foward and gaurd theres no way hed be considered an underdog against anyone.

[Hey Yo]

Miami had the reigning MVP, a HOFer in his prime, good ourside shooting, one of the best 3 & D guys at that time.

The defending champs lost half of their team in the off season. That's like saying the '19 Cavs were the defending EC champs.
Dallas still had 3 of the 5 remaining starters (including FMVP) and Terry off the bench. That's 4 key figures from the title team.

2019 Cavs still had Love and???? Not a great example on your part

[Hey Yo]

KD and Westbrook were 23 years old with zero Finals experience. The Heat should have been an obvious favorite if it wasn’t for LeBron’s rep as a choker that he established in 2011.
Dumb......

OKC just dominated 3 teams n a row that had major championship experience.

[SouBeachTalents]

OP just proved Lebron is the best player in the world for only 2 years in his whole career =(

Universal recognized best player will always make their team the favorite

Thanks OP for proving MJ > Lebron

Thread back fired l :lol
True, just like Jordan was against Detroit 3 years in a row

[Mr Feeny]

It's been 2hrs so it's safe to say you surprisingly did a smart thing for once and abandoned the thread.


Not sure why you even post really, cause it's quite clear you're ****ing clueless about basketball.


You're the punching bag of the forum for a reason.

[Mr Feeny]

Dumb......

OKC just dominated 3 teams n a row that had major championship experience.

So you deliberately make an effort to be the dumbest poster on the site?

Is this an act? Or are you really that thick?

[Bankaii]

So you deliberately make an effort to be the dumbest poster on the site?

Is this an act? Or are you really that thick?
I don’t really care one way or the other. But you keep throwing out ad Homs instead of proving him wrong. If his argument is so dumb, disprove of it. But right now you’re just acting like a child that realized you don’t have a valid argument.

[Mr Feeny]

I don’t really care one way or the other. But you keep throwing out ad Homs instead of proving him wrong. If his argument is so dumb, disprove of it. But right now you’re just acting like a child that realized you don’t have a valid argument.


"Disprove of it"

If someone tells me that Rondo is better than Kareem, should I even bother responding? If I don't, that means I don't have a valid argument?

No. It means that his "argument" is so stupid that it isn't even worth my time.

[ArbitraryWater]

"Disprove of it"

If someone tells me that Rondo is better than Kareem, should I even bother responding? If I don't, that means I don't have a valid argument?

No. It means that his "argument" is so stupid that it isn't even worth my time.

Except you're the only one who feels like this.

Get over your fake pride.

You have nothing to earn that pride with. You're a bum.

Stoop down and explain your position.

As long as you don't, you're just a useless bystander, carved up in his emotions.

[Bankaii]

"Disprove of it"

If someone tells me that Rondo is better than Kareem, should I even bother responding? If I don't, that means I don't have a valid argument?

No. It means that his "argument" is so stupid that it isn't even worth my time.
His argument is nowhere near that outlandish and you know that. You’re scrambling. It’s a valid argument if you actually watched basketball.
You simply don’t have a rebuttal. It’s fine, everybody takes an L. But just take yours instead of hurling out insults.


Miami had the reigning MVP, a HOFer in his prime, good ourside shooting, one of the best 3 & D guys at that time.

The defending champs lost half of their team in the off season. That's like saying the '19 Cavs were the defending EC champs.
What’s up with people and these horrid analogies that make zero sense?

[Mr Feeny]

Except you're the only one who feels like this.

Get over your fake pride.

You have nothing to earn that pride with. You're a bum.

Stoop down and explain your position.

As long as you don't, you're just a useless bystander, carved up in his emotions.

Bud, the entire board but you and simon feel this way.
Calling people a bum isnt going to make you less of a joke than you are.

Stick to watching iraqi football.

[Mr Feeny]

His argument is nowhere near that outlandish and you know that. You’re scrambling. It’s a valid argument if you actually watched basketball.
You simply don’t have a rebuttal. It’s fine, everybody takes an L. But just take yours instead of hurling out insults.


What’s up with people and these horrid analogies that make zero sense?

I watch basketball and you don't. "His" argument is stupid, as are most of "his posts"

Log back to that alt, dummy.

[Bankaii]

I watch basketball and you don't. "His" argument is stupid, as are most of "his posts"

Log back to that alt, dummy.
Again, you keep talking about how dumb his argument is but still haven’t proven him wrong.
You have time to continuously call it stupid but can’t argue against it lol?
Now you’re back to ad homs so I’m out. You’re a child and you clearly have no idea wtf you’re talking about lol. When you’re ready to actually prove something wipe your tears and post.

[SamuraiSWISH]

False ...

2011
2012
2013

Even 2014 they weren’t truly underdogs

2015 they weren’t even given steam rolling overrated 60 win opponent with Atlanta and having vastly more experience than the super young green Warriors.

They shouldn’t have been much of an underdog in 2016 and 2017 anyway.

[superduper]

Damn... is he truly that underwhelming that no one fears him?

[sdot_thadon]

False ...

2011
2012
2013

Even 2014 they weren’t truly underdogs

2015 they weren’t even given steam rolling overrated 60 win opponent with Atlanta and having vastly more experience than the super young green Warriors.

They shouldn’t have been much of an underdog in 2016 and 2017 anyway.

false? the odds are literally posted in the op. More "don't agree"

[red1]

False ...

2011
2012
2013

Even 2014 they weren’t truly underdogs

2015 they weren’t even given steam rolling overrated 60 win opponent with Atlanta and having vastly more experience than the super young green Warriors.

They shouldn’t have been much of an underdog in 2016 and 2017 anyway.

not at all kid. most of these teams here are better than all of jordan's competition.

2011 he was an overdog. so you need to read again.
2012 thunder may have been young but they were loaded with talent and destroyed the west including some great teams. meanwhile the heat were clearly a flawed team - far from the stacked unbeatable team that the haters always act like it was. they were great because of their stars and because of veteran role-players like battier and mike miller, they were definitely not some all time stacked team relative to the competition like jordan's bulls.

ditto for the spurs. they were playing very well, handled their conference, and sure duncan may have been old but they had an infusion of young talent like kawhi and danny green who if you remember broke the finals record for threes against the heat before curry when he played the heat in 2013. buh buh buh ray allen.

2015 the warriors had a great season and love already went down before any odds were made already had a shorter rotation. absolutely were underdogs. what are you talking about.

16
17
18

underdog all of these years for obvious reasons. what do you mean shouldn't have been an underdog? jordan would've lost to all of these teams.

[FireDavidKahn]

false? the odds are literally posted in the op. More "don't agree"

It's sad that they cannot accept irrefutable proof. These people have the highest level possible for LeBron Derangement Syndrome. They'd argue that LeGod is wrong if he said that 2+2=4

[tpols]

thats another strike against him.

He could never elevate a team to favorite dynasty status despite having more than enough talent to do so.

[FireDavidKahn]

thats another strike against him.

He could never elevate a team to favorite dynasty status despite having more than enough talent to do so.

No he didn't. His teams rarely had good depth.

[SamuraiSWISH]

thats another strike against him.

He could never elevate a team to favorite dynasty status despite having more than enough talent to do so.
Odd considering playing with

Prime Wade
Prime Bosh

Prime Kyrie
Prime Love

PEAK AD

[FKAri]

thats another strike against him.

He could never elevate a team to favorite dynasty status despite having more than enough talent to do so.

He elevated teams to favourite dynasty status despite have not nearly enough talent to do so. What a GOAT.

[STATUTORY]

he was favored against Orlando and Celtics in back to back years. Lost both times

[SamuraiSWISH]

he was favored against Orlando and Celtics in back to back years. Lost both times
Forgot about that ...

[tpols]

No he didn't. His teams rarely had good depth.

hahaha... they had fine depth. on top of dwayne wade and chris bosh they were bolstered by birdman, ray allen, shane battier, mike miller, chalmers and more.

the '01 lakers are a GOAT team with derek fisher and rick fox in the starting lineup, two guys worse ballers than any of the aforementioned.

There's absolutely no excuse.

[tpols]

Odd considering playing with

Prime Wade
Prime Bosh

Prime Kyrie
Prime Love

PEAK AD

its pretty incredible the hindsight bias.

The heat were expected to be an all time dynasty without all of their later additions birdman, ray, and battier.

They werent even favorites AFTER adding those guys to a bill russell dynasty shell.

smdh...

[Da_Realist]

There's absolutely no excuse.

There's ALWAYS an excuse.

[red1]

There's ALWAYS an excuse.

actually there are ZERO excuses on this side. he ALREADY did it.


if you can lead cleveland to the chip you can lead anyone to a ring. the sorry state that they were in - lebron is literally the best number one pick in history. :roll:

[SamuraiSWISH]

There's ALWAYS an excuse.
A LeExcuse

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

A LeExcuse

Where do you rate Lebron these days?

I switch my all-time rankings a lot, depending on the playoffs. In terms of greatness? I have Bron in my Top 5 without question. Some days in the top 3. Other days, I think dudes like Bird and Kobe had years where they were better. As scorers, in the clutch and defensively (mainly Kobe). Not arguing Bron isn't greater than them. Only that those two had certain years during their prime that are overlooked.

[red1]

no excuses just facts. the haters used to say he'd go ringless - hey man they had a good shot because he was drafted to the cleveland ****ing cavaliers

now the resume is set :roll:

3× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016)
3× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
16× NBA All-Star (2005–2020)
3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008, 2018)
12× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2018)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
All-NBA Third Team (2019)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2004)
NBA scoring champion (2008)
J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award (2017)
3× AP Athlete of the Year (2013, 2016, 2018)
2× Sports Illustrated Sportsperson of the Year (2012, 2016)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2012)
2× Mr. Basketball USA (2002, 2003)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (2003)
McDonald's All-American Game MVP (2003)
2× First-team Parade All-American (2002, 2003)
3× Ohio Mr. Basketball (2001–2003)

[tpols]

There's ALWAYS an excuse.

true that.

it just blows my mind that the big 3 Heat werent enough... like... what?

kids these days just making shit up.

they had better role players after their first year than most dynasties do.

[STATUTORY]

There's ALWAYS an excuse.

it's truly pathetic

[Axe]

no excuses just facts. the haters used to say he'd go ringless - hey man they had a good shot because he was drafted to the cleveland ****ing cavaliers

now the resume is set :roll:

3× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016)
3× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
16× NBA All-Star (2005–2020)
3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008, 2018)
12× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2018)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
All-NBA Third Team (2019)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2004)
NBA scoring champion (2008)
J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award (2017)
3× AP Athlete of the Year (2013, 2016, 2018)
2× Sports Illustrated Sportsperson of the Year (2012, 2016)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2012)
2× Mr. Basketball USA (2002, 2003)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (2003)
McDonald's All-American Game MVP (2003)
2× First-team Parade All-American (2002, 2003)
3× Ohio Mr. Basketball (2001–2003)
Copy-pasted from wikipedia. Thanks.

[ArbitraryWater]

There's ALWAYS an excuse.

Jordan fans speaking from their privileged, unchallenged, phony fraud 6/6 chair.

Weak ass personalities, dodging actual challenges.

It's akin to Jordan's and LeBrons career.

Jordan's is the set-up, made for him sweet Disney flick..

LeBron's is the gritty Oscar tale. Persevering.

It takes a little to see it. Not for the simple counting folks.

[Da_Realist]

Jordan fans speaking from their privileged, unchallenged, phony fraud 6/6 chair.

Weak ass personalities, dodging actual challenges.

It's akin to Jordan's and LeBrons career.

Jordan's is the set-up, made for him sweet Disney flick..

LeBron's is the gritty Oscar tale. Persevering.

It takes a little to see it. Not for the simple counting folks.

Textbook projection (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/projection).

[ArbitraryWater]

Textbook projection (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/projection).

I prefer your YouTube links to that black nutjob

[SamuraiSWISH]

Textbook projection (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/projection).
Seriously hah

[red1]

Copy-pasted from wikipedia. Thanks.

well, yeah?


I'm not typing that shit out, are you retarded? :oldlol:

[red1]

the problem with most of the lebron stans online is that they are either too young or too dumb to actually make a good case. in reality the evidence is right there - lebron is the undisputed 2nd GOAT. doesnt take a genius to see it.

[Axe]

well, yeah?


I'm not typing that shit out, are you retarded? :oldlol:
Lmao truth hurts?

[red1]

Lmao truth hurts?

why would that hurt? thats exactly right. I copied it straight from wikipedia.

[warriorfan]

no excuses just facts. the haters used to say he'd go ringless - hey man they had a good shot because he was drafted to the cleveland ****ing cavaliers

now the resume is set :roll:

3× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016)
3× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
16× NBA All-Star (2005–2020)
3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008, 2018)
12× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2018)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
All-NBA Third Team (2019)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2004)
NBA scoring champion (2008)
J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award (2017)
3× AP Athlete of the Year (2013, 2016, 2018)
2× Sports Illustrated Sportsperson of the Year (2012, 2016)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2012)
2× Mr. Basketball USA (2002, 2003)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (2003)
McDonald's All-American Game MVP (2003)
2× First-team Parade All-American (2002, 2003)
3× Ohio Mr. Basketball (2001–2003)

-Outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA finals despite logging in way more minutes per game

[Axe]

why would that hurt? thats exactly right. I copied it straight from wikipedia.
See? So freaking obvious.

[red1]

-Outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA finals despite logging in way more minutes per game

yup. certainly a choke.


well deserved. congrats to the mavs and their MVP dirk. kidd and marion got one as well, well-deserved for both. :applause:





FYI here's JT nowadays :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpUZCdaF7t8

[red1]

See? So freaking obvious.

dude. I dont even know what you're talking about. I already said that you're right. I did copy it from wikipedia. :confusedshrug:




your point?

[Axe]

dude. I dont even know what you're talking about. I already said that you're right. I did copy it from wikipedia. :confusedshrug:




your point?
Why do you think you have to do that though earlier? I mean I'm certain most stans in this board know already about his list of feats.

[red1]

Why do you think you have to do that though earlier? I mean I'm certain most stans in this board know already about his list of feats.

Im a fan of greatness bro. hence the ray allen.


of course I had to post those godly accolades.

[Axe]

Im a fan of greatness bro. hence the ray allen.


of course I had to post those godly accolades.
Then you shouldn't be afraid or ashamed of acknowledging their own shortcomings if people have to point them out.

[red1]

Then you shouldn't be afraid or ashamed of acknowledging their own shortcomings if people have to point them out.

bron is the GOAT overall athlete and specimen Ive seen.

no doubt the GOAT athlete competing now. and thats for all sports.

[FromDowntown]

Jordan fans speaking from their privileged, unchallenged, phony fraud 6/6 chair.

Weak ass personalities, dodging actual challenges.

It's akin to Jordan's and LeBrons career.

Jordan's is the set-up, made for him sweet Disney flick..

LeBron's is the gritty Oscar tale. Persevering.

It takes a little to see it. Not for the simple counting folks.

Bingo