Capitalism at work

[Stephonit]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html

[John Connor]

If you live in the United States, and you're over the age of 18, you are a massive hypocrite. And yes, it's that simple. What's the verdict?

[MMM]

I am a Conservative and can tell you Capitalism doesn't work

[John Connor]

I am a Conservative and can tell you Capitalism doesn't work

It does work.

What doesn't work is... government.

[Long Duck Dong]

It does work.

What doesn't work is... government.

Exactly. If the CDC hadn't waited weeks on involving private biotech companies in the making of COVID-19 test kits and tried to make it themselves, of which they failed miserably, there would probably be a million or more testing kits available to the public right now. I believe Germany and South Korea got their private companies involved immediately in the making of these kits

[FKAri]

It does work.

What doesn't work is... government.

Capitalism doesn't work without government regulations so if government doesn't work neither does capitalism.

[Stephonit]

If you live in the United States, and you're over the age of 18, you are a massive hypocrite. And yes, it's that simple. What's the verdict?

You sound offended. What in the story is there to be hypocritical about?

Synopsis:

Up and coming firm wins government contract to develop inexpensive ventilators. Company expects prestige from becoming a government supplier to help sales eventually thus justifying low price. Development runs smoothly. Capitalism at its best no?

Larger firm comes along and buys out up and coming firm. Developers are reassigned. Larger firm complains it won't make enough money from the product and petitions government to cancel contract. There's suspicion that the larger firm bought out the smaller firm to stop production of the cheaper ventilators that would have undercut its established products. Not a single ventilator is delivered. Capitalism at its worst.

The verdict? The country needs Bernie.

[bladefd]

You sound offended. What in the story is there to be hypocritical about?

Synopsis:

Up and coming firm wins government contract to develop inexpensive ventilators. Company expects prestige from becoming a government supplier to help sales eventually thus justifying low price. Development runs smoothly. Capitalism at its best no?

Larger firm comes along and buys out up and coming firm. Developers are reassigned. Larger firm complains it won't make enough money from the product and petitions government to cancel contract. There's suspicion that the larger firm bought out the smaller firm to stop production of the cheaper ventilators that would have undercut its established products. Not a single ventilator is delivered. Capitalism at its worst.

The verdict? The country needs Bernie.

That's why 100% free capitalism doesn't work. You need oversight and watchdogs/inspectors to keep a watch on crony capitalism & exploitation. Corruption exists regardless of what economic & political system you have in place and so oversight is always necessary.

[Hawker]

You sound offended. What in the story is there to be hypocritical about?

Synopsis:

Up and coming firm wins government contract to develop inexpensive ventilators. Company expects prestige from becoming a government supplier to help sales eventually thus justifying low price. Development runs smoothly. Capitalism at its best no?

Larger firm comes along and buys out up and coming firm. Developers are reassigned. Larger firm complains it won't make enough money from the product and petitions government to cancel contract. There's suspicion that the larger firm bought out the smaller firm to stop production of the cheaper ventilators that would have undercut its established products. Not a single ventilator is delivered. Capitalism at its worst.

The verdict? The country needs Bernie.

If you need a government contract for something, is that really capitalism?

The number of regulations that have been slashed in order to speed approval of tests, manufacturing of tests etc. has been ridiculous. I thought those regulations were necessary?

[Phong]

What would Bernie do to speed up the design and production of those cheap ventilators?

[John Connor]

Capitalism doesn't work without government regulations so if government doesn't work neither does capitalism.

No. The best short and even possibly mid term result might be a result of regulations, that is indisputable, but the best long term result absolutely is not. Additionally, yes, it is true that, unfortunately, capitalism without question results in short term pains that might not have happened with regulation in place in some if not many instances. But again... think long term. Short term thinking doesn't work.


You sound offended. What in the story is there to be hypocritical about?

Synopsis:

Up and coming firm wins government contract to develop inexpensive ventilators. Company expects prestige from becoming a government supplier to help sales eventually thus justifying low price. Development runs smoothly. Capitalism at its best no?

Larger firm comes along and buys out up and coming firm. Developers are reassigned. Larger firm complains it won't make enough money from the product and petitions government to cancel contract. There's suspicion that the larger firm bought out the smaller firm to stop production of the cheaper ventilators that would have undercut its established products. Not a single ventilator is delivered. Capitalism at its worst.

The verdict? The country needs Bernie.

This country doesn't need Bernie. Firstly, he won't be able to pass the extreme vast majority of what he wants to pass. Secondly, you're a hypocrite. If you've ever taken out a loan on anything ever, if you've ever sought a better job, if you've ever bought something that perhaps you couldn't quite afford, if you've ever done literally anything ever with your own personal money that wasn't for other people... you are a hypocrite.

Here, this scene about sums it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f2kGHcdJYU

If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.

[Stephonit]

What would Bernie do to speed up the design and production of those cheap ventilators?

Of all the presidential contenders he is the least likely to kowtow to the wishes of the larger firm. If there was any chance for the administration to demand fulfillment of the contract and if necessary stop the merger based on national interest grounds it would be under Bernie's administration.

[DoctorP]

https://media.giphy.com/media/aNQm3OSoDsBXi/giphy.gif

[DoctorP]

https://i2.wp.com/brightestyoungthings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/pr-72.gif

https://media3.giphy.com/media/HwVUs9OvLuDpS/source.gif

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oratv-admin-wysiwyg/2015/02/19/anigif_enhanced-buzz-32724-1372697749-28.gif

[Axe]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html
The title of the article is comical.

[Stephonit]

This country doesn't need Bernie. Firstly, he won't be able to pass the extreme vast majority of what he wants to pass. Secondly, you're a hypocrite. If you've ever taken out a loan on anything ever, if you've ever sought a better job, if you've ever bought something that perhaps you couldn't quite afford, if you've ever done literally anything ever with your own personal money that wasn't for other people... you are a hypocrite.

As I asked previously what was hypocritical about sharing that article? It shows capitalism at work—both the good and the bad. The good side of capitalism we are exposed to endless propaganda of. The bad gets swept under the rug or is lost in jargon like "leveraged buyouts" and "collateralized debt obligations". The story is pertinent in the current context not only because of how it has affected the current crisis du jour but also because it's larger firms that are dominating the market while the small and upcoming ones are more and more becoming background props.

[Cleverness]

Let's review the article.

-The federal gov't spent 15 years giving billions of dollars to their friends to make zero ventilators.

-The federal gov't (FDA) took a long ass time to approve ventilators for use.

-Finally, in Trump's America, "the government has since sped up maintenance to increase the number available." /s


Dude, this is not capitalism.:oldlol:

[Stephonit]

Let's review the article.

-The federal gov't spent 15 years giving billions of dollars to their friends to make zero ventilators.

-The federal gov't (FDA) took a long ass time to approve ventilators for use.

-Finally, in Trump's America, "the government has since sped up maintenance to increase the number available." /s


Dude, this is not capitalism.:oldlol:

"The contract called for Newport to receive $6.1 million upfront, with the expectation that the government would pay millions more as it bought thousands of machines to fortify the stockpile."

Where are the billions you are talking about? You mean the current deal that was struck by the Trump administration in the midst of this crisis which values a new ventilator at around $10000 each rather than the $3000 of the Newport deal?

[Cleverness]

Oh sorry, hundreds of millions over 15+ years? You can delete your post now or continue to debate minutia.

[bladefd]

"The contract called for Newport to receive $6.1 million upfront, with the expectation that the government would pay millions more as it bought thousands of machines to fortify the stockpile."

Where are the billions you are talking about? You mean the current deal that was struck by the Trump administration in the midst of this crisis which values a new ventilator at around $10000 each rather than the $3000 of the Newport deal?

GM/Ventec ventilator plan that Trump administration have costs $1bn for 80,000 ventilators, which is about $12,500 per ventilator. The deal has since been altered, and we don't have the latest cost numbers.

The plan with Newport in OP's article, which cleverness didn't read & is busy talking out of his ass (as usual), cost around $3,000 per ventilator. We will end up paying much more money here during a time of desperate need.

[kabar]

South Korea has been very successful at incorporating capitalistic mechanisms mainly due to their experience with MERS and SARs outbreak. Their experience taught them they needed adequate testing early so private companies filled the demand. $140 if you're asymptomatic, refunded if you test positive, free if you're symptomatic.

[Stephonit]

Oh sorry, hundreds of millions over 15+ years? You can delete your post now or continue to debate minutia.

Read the quote above again and maybe its meaning will sink in.

[Cleverness]

Read the quote above again and maybe its meaning will sink in.

Since you completely missed (ignored) the point, I'll rephrase it and dumb it down for you.

1. You are incorrect about federal gov't failures being "capitalism at work."

2. The article you posted tells us how the federal gov't wasted tax dollars to make zero ventilators. This is not capitalism at work.

3. The article you posted tells us that federal gov't (FDA) took a long ass time to approve ventilators for use. This is not capitalism at work.

4. I was being sarcastic, but the article points out that in Trump's America "the government has since sped up maintenance to increase the number available."

You're welcome.

[Phong]

GM/Ventec ventilator plan that Trump administration have costs $1bn for 80,000 ventilators, which is about $12,500 per ventilator. The deal has since been altered, and we don't have the latest cost numbers.

The plan with Newport in OP's article, which cleverness didn't read & is busy talking out of his ass (as usual), cost around $3,000 per ventilator. We will end up paying much more money here during a time of desperate need.Newport's owners pocketed millions from the government, only produced 3 prototypes in the span of 2 years and then sold the company for $100 millions. Seems like their "$3,000 ventilator" was nothing but a vaporware to get a government contract and get bought by a bigger company.

At least with GM/Ventec, you'll get a real ventilator and manufacturing capacity to produce it in high volume.

[Stephonit]

Since you completely missed (ignored) the point, I'll rephrase it and dumb it down for you.
1. You are incorrect about federal gov't failures being "capitalism at work."
2. The article you posted tells us how the federal gov't wasted tax dollars to make zero ventilators. This is not capitalism at work.


If two private companies weren't involved you might have a point but since they were central actors in the story you don't.

If the government didn't get its money back and wasn't indemnified by the private company then you'd be right and it would be an example of how the government bends over backwards to please private interests and how capitalism as practiced between the state and the private sector is broken. If the government was indemnified you have no point.