Kawhi is NOT even a top 25 player of all time.

[StrongLurk]

Even if he won a "3rd FMVP" (his first one doesn't even matter when it comes to all-time player debates since he was just a super role player at the time).

Kawhi is about to end his 9th NBA season...and he STILL doesn't even have 10,000 career total points...He also has only had TWO elite playoff runs (last year) and the 2017 playoffs.

He just has not done enough as far as "production" to warrant top 25. Casuals are being blinded by his rings/FMVPs and not putting context behind the hardware.

[TheCorporation]

Don't forget he has ZERO MVPs.

Top 10 is 1 MVP minimum

Sorry Kawhit

[red1]

I was really rooting for kawhi and playoff pee this year. that kid patrick beverly is also dogshit, I completely understand why he always gets these dog comparisons.

[superduper]

His peak form is among the best ever and that is hard to argue against.

[DoctorP]

id still take him over lebron in the clutch. thats a no brainer

[Turbo Slayer]

id still take him over lebron in the clutch. thats a no brainer Thats recency bias. You have to take into account their whole careers and LeBron is clearly better.

[Turbo Slayer]

Kawhi is an interesting case.

[STATUTORY]

peak>longevity

[StrongLurk]

peak>longevity

He doesn't even HAVE any longevity, so he's not even in that discussion. He's had three elite years...and that's it. Everyone in the top 25 had at least double or even triple the amount of elite years that Kawhi has had.

Are you really gonna try to rank Kawhi over a D-wade, Dirk, Dr. J, David Robinson, or Isaiah Thomas?

I'll be happy to rank Kawhi higher than what he is now if he continues this level of play for 3-4 more seasons.

[tpols]

Kawhi is one of those guys that may not have the career stats, but his game when it counts is just dominant.

Antwan Jamison and melo will probably lap him in totals despite being totally inferior as players.

long story short... it doesnt mean shit.

[warriorfan]

You are right he’s top 20 or top 15 especially since he got robbed of a chip this year.

[red1]

kawhi really needs that ring more than any other player in the league. he's got that questionable, aka nonexistent longevity. unlike the lakers who will definitely have another year or two in the tank after this rigged season from silver.


speaking of pencil-necks, silver and others have been getting payments under the table from ballmer. which explains the forum and the paul george gift from okc.

[TheCorporation]

peak>longevity


So LeBron > *

Thanks :lol

[Doranku]

kawhi really needs that ring more than any other player in the league. he's got that questionable, aka nonexistent longevity. unlike the lakers who will definitely have another year or two in the tank after this rigged season from silver.


speaking of pencil-necks, silver and others have been getting payments under the table from ballmer. which explains the forum and the paul george gift from okc.

Eh, not so sure I agree with that. Kawhi is the defending FMVP and just gave a city it's first ring in franchise history. I'd say guys like Harden and Giannis need it more for that ultimate validation that comes with leading a team to a title. Kawhi already has that.

[bizil]

He's not YET! BUT he's certainly on that path if he stays healthy. And he DOESN'T even need another ring to hit top 25. He just needs more longevity being a great player. His peak-prime shit in my opinion is looking to be in the top 5 ever at the SF spot. U got Bron, Bird, KD, and Doc in that mix. But Kawhi has proved to be on that level when u see what he's capable of. And he's gonna go down as the best two player EVER at the SF spot if the health holds up. Hell among ALL PERIMETER PLAYERS MJ, Kawhi, and Mamba are the top two way players ever. DPOY shit AND alpha dog scoring in one package! The question is could Kawhi be in the top 10-15 GOAT legends down the road. Top 25 (although he's not there yet) is a mere formality if he stays healthy. Longevity does count for something. BUT the huge edge he has is two rings, two Finals MVPs, and two DPOYS. He has SICK ACCOLADES ALREADY to match his peak-prime play thus far. Those things can SUPERCEDE longevity if u are a player in Kawhi's level. BUT he isn't top 25 yet. Just saying rings and Finals MVPs boost a legend's standing on the GOAT chart. The fact he ALREADY has those out of the way in his 20's is an advantage.

[DoctorP]

Thats recency bias. You have to take into account their whole careers and LeBron is clearly better.

nope. lebron hasnt been clutch since 2007.

lebrons one of the goats but Kawhis a killer in the clutch

[tpols]

So LeBron > *

Thanks :lol

kawhi is known for shitting on lebron.

he even did it when he was a pre-all star, now it's just unfair. midrange game and defense too tight.

[red1]

Eh, not so sure I agree with that. Kawhi is the defending FMVP and just gave a city it's first ring in franchise history. I'd say guys like Harden and Giannis need it more for that ultimate validation that comes with leading a team to a title. Kawhi already has that.

harden will never win a ring unless he ring chases as an old vet, and giannis isn't ready yet. this year its kawhi or lebron guaranteed. next year that tall scrawny bastard with the patchy hair will try to come back and take credit for what the nets have been building, so kawhi better do some voodoo prayer that the season returns ASAP otherwise he might have another rival to contend with.


kawhi is known for shitting on lebron.

he even did it when he was a pre-all star, now it's just unfair. midrange game and defense too tight.

not true at all. lebron is much better than kawhi. and I've been a closet kawhi fan since 2016-2017 when he was killing the league and no one noticed. thats the first season kawhi reached his current level on offense of unguardable 1on1 scoring.

[TheCorporation]

nope. lebron hasnt been clutch since 2007.

lebrons one of the goats but Kawhis a killer in the clutch

Imagine having more game winners than anyone ever and more points but they people say this :lol

6,911

facts

no emotions

https://i.postimg.cc/B6nJtxQ5/Playoff-Leaders.png

[Bronbron23]

Even if he won a "3rd FMVP" (his first one doesn't even matter when it comes to all-time player debates since he was just a super role player at the time).

Kawhi is about to end his 9th NBA season...and he STILL doesn't even have 10,000 career total points...He also has only had TWO elite playoff runs (last year) and the 2017 playoffs.

He just has not done enough as far as "production" to warrant top 25. Casuals are being blinded by his rings/FMVPs and not putting context behind the hardware.

Hes only 28 bro. You could say the same about slot of 28 year olds before they went on to do what they did. At 28 mj has 1 chip. Steph onky had 4 all star appearances and fmvps. Kd only had one chip and one fmvp. Lebron would only have 2 chips.

Woukd mj have been considered a top 25 player all time at 28?

[DoctorP]

Imagine having more game winners than anyone ever and more points but they people say this :lol

6,911

facts

no emotions

https://i.postimg.cc/B6nJtxQ5/Playoff-Leaders.png

what does this have to do w clutch tho? :lol

lebron, god bless em, has been a consistent choker. this is old news.

[keep-itreal]

2× NBA champion (2014, 2019)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2014, 2019)
2× All-NBA First Team (2016, 2017)
All-NBA Second Team (2019)
2× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2015, 2016)
3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2015–2017)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014, 2019)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA steals leader (2015)


He's already top 25 all time and he's only 28. :rockon:

[red1]

just look at this group of clowns literally trying to buy the championship. I bet silver and the nba get weekly deposits from ballmer. these guys are easily the villains of the nba compared to the wholesome family friendly lakers and bucks.


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BackDrearyImperatorangel-size_restricted.gif
https://i1.hoopchina.com.cn/blogfile/201905/16/BbsImg_24906728961787_1557978470_s_140015_o_w_1024 _h_683_33043.jpg?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_800/format,webp

[Akeem34TheDream]

Greatest perimeter defender of all time

[red1]

microsoft and windows was always a bullshit monopoly and now ballmer is bringing that silicon valley goon behavior into the NBA, encouraging a known thug like patrick beverley. how these guys even have fans is beyond me.

[keep-itreal]

microsoft and windows was always a bullshit monopoly and now ballmer is bringing that silicon valley goon behavior into the NBA, encouraging a known thug like patrick beverley. how these guys even have fans is beyond me.

Why are you hating on ballmer and the clippers?? WTF...

[red1]

Why are you hating on ballmer and the clippers?? WTF...

im slandering and discrediting the enemy in advance. its a textbook strategy in the art of war.


ballmer wasnt shit without bill gates just like the clippers arent shit now without silver in their back pocket.

[keep-itreal]

im slandering and discrediting the enemy in advance. its a textbook strategy in the art of war.


ballmer wasnt shit without bill gates just like the clippers arent shit now without silver in their back pocket.

What does Adam Silver have anything to do with the Clippers?

[red1]

What does Adam Silver have anything to do with the Clippers?

rigging.

[keep-itreal]

rigging.

rigging what??

[TheCorporation]

what does this have to do w clutch tho? :lol

lebron, god bless em, has been a consistent choker. this is old news.

LBJ #1
10 game winners

MJ #2
9

THE REST ...

#1

[red1]

rigging what??

seasons. and games.

[DoctorP]

LBJ #1
10 game winners

MJ #2
9

THE REST ...

#1

http://bkref.com/tiny/2kBZj

Games =
LeBron 239
Jordan 179

chasing ghosts

[keep-itreal]

seasons. and games.

which seasons? Which games?

[red1]

LBJ #1
10 game winners

MJ #2
9

THE REST ...

#1

this is why I always get attacked by chuckbe stans. 81 points craptors etc etc which is fair I'll give you that. :oldlol: what I wont concede is when bean stans have the audacity say that kobe was clutch and lebron is a choker. Im like dude what planet do you live on lebron is way more clutch than kobe. its not even a debate at this point it all fell away like the ringless and no 4th quarter narrative. now we just go with elimination game james and hey-soos shuttlesworth.






the president had the honor of meeting ray allen that day. I'm glad ray took some time out of his busy schedule:


https://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Barack+Obama+Meets+NBA+Champions+svPom2bxWQRx.jpg

[dreamshake]

Kawhi is already top 10 based off the sheer fact that he brought the first championship to a shit Toronto Raptors franchise.

[TheCorporation]

http://bkref.com/tiny/2kBZj

Games =
LeBron 239
Jordan 179

chasing ghosts

Oh

https://i.postimg.cc/MZbRk4Lp/FB-IMG-1536210946931.jpg

[red1]

look at that big-ass ring on ray's hand. always thought ray was the weakest of the late 90's early 2000's jordan-heir star shooting guards. tmac kobe carter ray.


who knew he'd have the greatest shot in NBA history. the type of shot that drives haters to jump off of cliffs.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/94/2c/76/942c7663a0cc497eda5efbbbff1afb6a.gif
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/RewardingMiserlyFulmar-small.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

OP with another no shit thread :oldlol: Nobody besides trolls would have Kawhi in the top 25 at this point

[RRR3]

OP is right. Who you taking Kawhi over career wise of these 25 players?

1. MJ
2. LeBron
3. Kareem
4. Wilt
5. Shaq
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Duncan
10. Russell
11. Kobe
12. Big O
13. Jerry West
14. David Robinson
15. KG
16. KD
17. Karl Malone
18. Barkley
19. Steph
20. Dr. J
21. Wade
22. CP3
23. Dirk
24. Bob Pettit
25. Moses Malone


Then you have guys like John Stockton, Rick Barry, John Havlicek, Scottie Pippen, Patrick Ewing, Willis Reed, Elgin Baylor, Steve Nash, Gary Payton, Walt Frazier, Jason Kidd, Clyde Drexler, Kevin McHale, James Harden, etc etc.

Kawhi has had 4 elite seasons and even in those seasons he always missed a lot of games. That isn’t very much. If you rank Kawhi that high you have to rank Bill Walton fairly high too. And T-Mac and George Mikan and Penny Hardaway.

[DoctorP]

Oh

https://i.postimg.cc/MZbRk4Lp/FB-IMG-1536210946931.jpg
https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1001/nba_g_james_gb2_576.jpg

[Whoah10115]

He's not YET! BUT he's certainly on that path if he stays healthy. And he DOESN'T even need another ring to hit top 25. He just needs more longevity being a great player. His peak-prime shit in my opinion is looking to be in the top 5 ever at the SF spot. U got Bron, Bird, KD, and Doc in that mix. But Kawhi has proved to be on that level when u see what he's capable of. And he's gonna go down as the best two player EVER at the SF spot if the health holds up. Hell among ALL PERIMETER PLAYERS MJ, Kawhi, and Mamba are the top two way players ever. DPOY shit AND alpha dog scoring in one package! The question is could Kawhi be in the top 10-15 GOAT legends down the road. Top 25 (although he's not there yet) is a mere formality if he stays healthy. Longevity does count for something. BUT the huge edge he has is two rings, two Finals MVPs, and two DPOYS. He has SICK ACCOLADES ALREADY to match his peak-prime play thus far. Those things can SUPERCEDE longevity if u are a player in Kawhi's level. BUT he isn't top 25 yet. Just saying rings and Finals MVPs boost a legend's standing on the GOAT chart. The fact he ALREADY has those out of the way in his 20's is an advantage.


I don't think top 25 is a formality for him. And I don't think he's approaching that top 5 right now. I even think a player like Paul Pierce has a comparable peak and prime so far. At his best, Kawhi is an obvious standout on the defensive side, but would a player like Pierce (who spent a lot of time at SG) really be so far behind if his teams weren't completely terrible?

Rick Barry also had an exceptional playoff run, and he had a better playoff run. Plus he had a better prime, honestly. But Kawhi has two FMVP's (and the first should have gone to Manu), and then really became a great player in San Antonio. That said, it honestly wasn't until last season that he really looked like the player a lot of people credit him with being. There are other guys who have just been better. And you can then get into Elgin Baylor, and unfortunately too many will blow right by Scottie Pippen, who is ELITE. And those who don't will just be people, it seems, who wanna rip Jordan to lift LeBron.

Just like this thread -despite thoughtful responses like yours- is just meant to slag off a current rival and favorite of the LeBron haters.



Woukd mj have been considered a top 25 player all time at 28?

Not sure if serious.


Greatest perimeter defender of all time

Unfortunately, you are serious...try and work on that.

[StrongLurk]

Hes only 28 bro. You could say the same about slot of 28 year olds before they went on to do what they did. At 28 mj has 1 chip. Steph onky had 4 all star appearances and fmvps. Kd only had one chip and one fmvp. Lebron would only have 2 chips.

Woukd mj have been considered a top 25 player all time at 28?

Are you serious with this question??? Of course MJ was top 25 all time at 28. Hell just the fact that we've basically had 30 more years of basketball since MJ was 28 means it's even harder to get into the top 25 now compared to 1992.

Do you SEEEEE the production difference below?

MJ at 28 for his career - 589 games
32/6/6/3/1 - Reg
35/7/7/2/1 - playoffs

Kawhi at 28 for his career - 518 games
19/6/3/2/1 - Reg
20/8/2/2/1 - Playoffs


Besides, you are also proving my point by saying "Kawhi is only 28". Yeah exactly, he is still somewhat young and has plenty left to prove before he just automatically gets to be top 25 all time.

[ArbitraryWater]

nope. lebron hasnt been clutch since 2007.

lebrons one of the goats but Kawhis a killer in the clutch

You take the piss with everything you say

Then someone brings facts and you revert to your trollish haha dont care tho posts

If this is the serious you, you are retarded


Clearly even you have doubts about your opinions

[StrongLurk]

OP is right. Who you taking Kawhi over career wise of these 25 players?

1. MJ
2. LeBron
3. Kareem
4. Wilt
5. Shaq
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Duncan
10. Russell
11. Kobe
12. Big O
13. Jerry West
14. David Robinson
15. KG
16. KD
17. Karl Malone
18. Barkley
19. Steph
20. Dr. J
21. Wade
22. CP3
23. Dirk
24. Bob Pettit
25. Moses Malone


Then you have guys like John Stockton, Rick Barry, John Havlicek, Scottie Pippen, Patrick Ewing, Willis Reed, Elgin Baylor, Steve Nash, Gary Payton, Walt Frazier, Jason Kidd, Clyde Drexler, Kevin McHale, James Harden, etc etc.

Kawhi has had 4 elite seasons and even in those seasons he always missed a lot of games. That isn’t very much. If you rank Kawhi that high you have to rank Bill Walton fairly high too. And T-Mac and George Mikan and Penny Hardaway.

Thank you! Honestly man basketball easily has the dumbest and most casual fan base of all major sports. So many people can't even get the basic facts right.

[ArbitraryWater]

https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1001/nba_g_james_gb2_576.jpg

See, you're bottom of the barrell. Disgusting person.

[DoctorP]

You take the piss with everything you say

Then someone brings facts and you revert to your trollish haha dont care tho posts

If this is the serious you, you are retarded


Clearly even you have doubts about your opinions

wait what? what are you talking about?

[DoctorP]

See, you're bottom of the barrell. Disgusting person.

huge choke job. the image says it all. everyone knows.

do i really have to repeat again how LeBron choked here? He was ineffective.

[ArbitraryWater]

wait what? what are you talking about?

Back to your trollish nothing posts

You're a despicable person

Absolutely disgusting

[DoctorP]

See, you're bottom of the barrell. Disgusting person.

you havent seen the bottom of the barrell then. :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

huge choke job. the image says it all. everyone knows.

do i really have to repeat again how LeBron choked here? He was ineffective.

Yea, what happened 2012, 2013, 2014 ecsf, 2016, 2018....

Don't matter nun, right.

What happens every RS. Who leads crunchtime offenses.

[DoctorP]

Back to your trollish nothing posts

You're a despicable person

Absolutely disgusting

oh, thanks. i dont know who you are but you rep a person that killed half a universe in thanos and you are obsessed with lebron. typical insidehoops. :lol

[DoctorP]

Yea, what happened 2012, 2013, 2014 ecsf, 2016, 2018....

Don't matter nun, right.

What happens every RS. Who leads crunchtime offenses.

LeBrons one of the best ever dude, relax. but he has flaws and failures.
he's also a big choker.

[ArbitraryWater]

People dont even care about Kawhi's perennial chokes.

Dude missed BOTH FT's that led to overtime in Kyrie's 57 pter

Would be saved image on dumbass above me computer if it was lebron

[ArbitraryWater]

LeBrons one of the best ever dude, relax. but he has flaws and failures.
he's also a big choker.

Sadly you cant explain the last at all without going off the rails for trollish pics

[DoctorP]

Sadly you cant explain the last at all without going off the rails for trollish pics

i dont know what you are talking about :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

A big choker, who averages the most pts ever in elimination games and game 7's, won 2 finals game 7s, has the most playofff buzzer beaters, averages the mlst 4th quarter points, perenially leads the best crunchtime offenses, best playoff last 10/24 seconds stats, last 2 min stats.

Checks off all signs of big chokers really

[DoctorP]

A big choker, who averages the most pts ever in elimination games and game 7's, won 2 finals game 7s, has the most playofff buzzer beaters, averages the mlst 4th quarter points, perenially leads the best crunchtime offenses, best playoff last 10/24 seconds stats, last 2 min stats.

Checks off all signs of big chokers really

read this, thanos

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?173716-Lebron-James-Booed-of-home-court-after-awful-May-11-Game-5-loss-to-Celtics

LeBron aint as bad of a choker as Curry tho. Cheer up. :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

read this, thanos

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?173716-Lebron-James-Booed-of-home-court-after-awful-May-11-Game-5-loss-to-Celtics

LeBron aint as bad of a choker as Curry tho. Cheer up. :lol

You can't be this dumb lol.

Yeah, a random bad game 5/6 and the 2011 series denounces a career of clutch brilliance.

Clearly lebron could have done nothing since 2011 to change his narrative.

Ignorance really is one of the worst traits in a person

[DoctorP]

You can't be this dumb lol.

Yeah, a random bad game 5/6 and the 2011 series denounces a career of clutch brilliance.

Clearly lebron could have done nothing since 2011 to change his narrative.

Ignorance really is one of the worst traits in a person

who cares?

i agree ignorance is an ugly trait.

[DoctorP]

hey, you want to kill people?

[ArbitraryWater]

who cares?


Refer back to this, you ignorant ****


You take the piss with everything you say

Then someone brings facts and you revert to your trollish haha dont care tho posts

If this is the serious you, you are retarded

[DoctorP]

Refer back to this, you ignorant ****

where are your facts this is dumb.

do you want to kill people or not?

[Proctor]

OP is right. Who you taking Kawhi over career wise of these 25 players?

1. MJ
2. LeBron
3. Kareem
4. Wilt
5. Shaq
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Duncan
10. Russell
11. Kobe
12. Big O
13. Jerry West
14. David Robinson
15. KG
16. KD
17. Karl Malone
18. Barkley
19. Steph
20. Dr. J
21. Wade
22. CP3
23. Dirk
24. Bob Pettit
25. Moses Malone


Then you have guys like John Stockton, Rick Barry, John Havlicek, Scottie Pippen, Patrick Ewing, Willis Reed, Elgin Baylor, Steve Nash, Gary Payton, Walt Frazier, Jason Kidd, Clyde Drexler, Kevin McHale, James Harden, etc etc.

Kawhi has had 4 elite seasons and even in those seasons he always missed a lot of games. That isn’t very much. If you rank Kawhi that high you have to rank Bill Walton fairly high too. And T-Mac and George Mikan and Penny Hardaway.

https://media.giphy.com/media/gRI82qIDbHZPW/200.gif

[DoctorP]

Refer back to this, you ignorant ****

where did you go? you didnt answer my question?

[DoctorP]

hello? arbitrary?

https://media.giphy.com/media/eunmee117BvXWWBKsl/giphy.gif

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/EasygoingDisloyalCarp-size_restricted.gif

[RRR3]

https://media.giphy.com/media/gRI82qIDbHZPW/200.gif
Longevity matters. I would take Kawhi over Harden at their best for sure, don't get me wrong. We are talking total career value, not just peak play.

[Jasper]

never will be a top 25 , but he will be in some arguments ...

I could never put him in a top 25 because 1/2 his game is walking and standing .. he acts like more less a 2nd option to his teams...

[Akeem34TheDream]

Looks like there are are plenty of people that dislike him. Nice. You can criticize him for his durability but when he plays he is one of the best ever.

[Bronbron23]

Are you serious with this question??? Of course MJ was top 25 all time at 28. Hell just the fact that we've basically had 30 more years of basketball since MJ was 28 means it's even harder to get into the top 25 now compared to 1992.

Do you SEEEEE the production difference below?

MJ at 28 for his career - 589 games
32/6/6/3/1 - Reg
35/7/7/2/1 - playoffs

Kawhi at 28 for his career - 518 games
19/6/3/2/1 - Reg
20/8/2/2/1 - Playoffs


Besides, you are also proving my point by saying "Kawhi is only 28". Yeah exactly, he is still somewhat young and has plenty left to prove before he just automatically gets to be top 25 all time.

Yeah i agree Kawhi not a top 25. He most likely will be though. And mj was not a top 25 at 28. If he had of got hurt after that year or just sucked and never won again he absolutely wouldn't be a top 25. Maybe a top 50

[StrongLurk]

Yeah i agree Kawhi not a top 25. He most likely will be though. And mj was not a top 25 at 28. If he had of got hurt after that year or just sucked and never won again he absolutely wouldn't be a top 25. Maybe a top 50

You are crazy thinking this. You saw the stats MJ had. He also had already won two MVPS (three counting 92), DPOY, RING/FMVP (2 if you are finishing the 1992 year) and he made the all star team every year of his career at that point.

You must be confusing my Kawhi argument. Kawhi lacks production AND longevity of playing at an elite level. MJ did NOT lack production or longevity playing at an elite level...MJ from 84-92 might be the best 8 year streak ever.

[Whoah10115]

MJ from 84-92 might be the best 8 year streak ever.


No might about it.
Jordan was probably the best ever by 28. Without any question in the top 5.

So poster needs to get it together.

[Bronbron23]

You are crazy thinking this. You saw the stats MJ had. He also had already won two MVPS (three counting 92), DPOY, RING/FMVP (2 if you are finishing the 1992 year) and he made the all star team every year of his career at that point.

You must be confusing my Kawhi argument. Kawhi lacks production AND longevity of playing at an elite level. MJ did NOT lack production or longevity playing at an elite level...MJ from 84-92 might be the best 8 year streak ever.
Maybe i had my sge wrong but i wasnt counting 92 Olympics and chip. If we're counting thise then yeah mj with his stats 2 chips and accolades would be a top 25. If were only counting one ring though then no i dont think he would be. He wouldn't have enough chips.

[Roundball_Rock]

Even if he won a "3rd FMVP" (his first one doesn't even matter when it comes to all-time player debates since he was just a super role player at the time).

Kawhi is about to end his 9th NBA season...and he STILL doesn't even have 10,000 career total points...He also has only had TWO elite playoff runs (last year) and the 2017 playoffs.

He just has not done enough as far as "production" to warrant top 25. Casuals are being blinded by his rings/FMVPs and not putting context behind the hardware.

Exactly. How many great seasons does he have? Even during those seasons he can't play the full season.

[ralph_i_el]

He could hold his own against anyone in history when he's on the court. You have to respect that.

[Marchesk]

I'm just curious who would be ranking Kawhi over Durant. Is this recency bias? Didn't KD win the previous two FMVPs, and wasn't he hurt this last finals?

[nayte]

On play maybe. Dude is a legit two way player .

[Axe]

I'm just curious who would be ranking Kawhi over Durant. Is this recency bias? Didn't KD win the previous two FMVPs, and wasn't he hurt this last finals?
Lol, kawhi won first his chip and fmvp before durant even got his in golden state.

[AussieSteve]

Hes only 28 bro. You could say the same about slot of 28 year olds before they went on to do what they did. At 28 mj has 1 chip. Steph onky had 4 all star appearances and fmvps. Kd only had one chip and one fmvp. Lebron would only have 2 chips.

Woukd mj have been considered a top 25 player all time at 28?

Dude, MJ was in goat contention by 28. Certainly top 5.

He was top 10 by 1990, at age 26 in only his 6th NBA season.

Red Auerbach 1990 top 12 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m7IqJZJIjFE)

Barkey was top 12 the same year at the same age, also in just his 6th season.

It's funny how Red ranked MJ and Chuck in his all time 12 man roster, despite the fact that neither had even made the finals let alone won a ring. Goes to show how distorted people weight Finals wins these days, ignoring the fact that it's a team game. You can player at an ATG level and still not win. Likewise you can play at a much lower level and win if your team is better than your opppnents. Kawhi is a case in point of the later.

[Stephonit]

Dude, MJ was in goat contention by 28. Certainly top 5.

He was top 10 by 1990, at age 26 in only his 6th NBA season.

Red Auerbach 1990 top 12 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m7IqJZJIjFE)

Barkey was top 12 the same year at the same age, also in just his 6th season.

It's funny how Red ranked MJ and Chuck in his all time 12 man roster, despite the fact that neither had even made the finals let alone won a ring. Goes to show how distorted people weight Finals wins these days, ignoring the fact that it's a team game. You can player at an ATG level and still not win. Likewise you can play at a much lower level and win if your team is better than your opppnents. Kawhi is a case in point of the later.

So who would you rate in the top 12 in 1990? Basketball is a relatively young game. One had to figure a couple of the current superstars would make an impact. Hyping young guns is part of league promotion.

[Mamba4Life]

He’s somewhere in the 30s, slightly ahead of Steph

[deathawaitu]

Thats recency bias. You have to take into account their whole careers and LeBron is clearly better.

Na.. It's called the eye test. Kawhi was just unfortunate to played his career on the West and Lebron was fortunate to play on the East

Kawhi first year in East = champion

Lebron first year in West = miss playoff

Let us know when Lebron does something clutch in the Western Playoff, but until then Kawhi is better than Lebron

[bizil]

I don't think top 25 is a formality for him. And I don't think he's approaching that top 5 right now. I even think a player like Paul Pierce has a comparable peak and prime so far. At his best, Kawhi is an obvious standout on the defensive side, but would a player like Pierce (who spent a lot of time at SG) really be so far behind if his teams weren't completely terrible?

Rick Barry also had an exceptional playoff run, and he had a better playoff run. Plus he had a better prime, honestly. But Kawhi has two FMVP's (and the first should have gone to Manu), and then really became a great player in San Antonio. That said, it honestly wasn't until last season that he really looked like the player a lot of people credit him with being. There are other guys who have just been better. And you can then get into Elgin Baylor, and unfortunately too many will blow right by Scottie Pippen, who is ELITE. And those who don't will just be people, it seems, who wanna rip Jordan to lift LeBron.

Just like this thread -despite thoughtful responses like yours- is just meant to slag off a current rival and favorite of the LeBron haters.



Not sure if serious.



Unfortunately, you are serious...try and work on that.

Once again, u gotta realize that Kawhi ALREADY has two rings AND two Finals MVPs. On two different teams in two different conferences nonetheless! That right there takes a HUGE LOAD off his back in terms of getting in the top 25 GOAT. WANNA KNOW WHY?? Because MOST GUYS in the top 25 don't have that combination of 2 rings AND 2 Finals MVPs! From there, u gotta look at Kawhi AT HIS BEST compared to everybody else at the SF spot. It's not a stretch at all to see that Kawhi is a top 5 SF ever peak-prime wise. He's in that mix with Bron, Bird, KD, and Dr. J. Some may not agree of course. BUT he's the best two way SF EVER! Nobody else combined defense and scoring like he does. Bron and Hondo come the closest among the 3 spot.

So when u factor ALL THIS SHIT, he just needs more longevity being a great player to be a top 25 GOAT. At his best, he's a top 5 caliber SF of all time. He has 2 rings and 2 Finals MVPs before he even hit 30. Accolades and peak-prime value like that push u up the charts faster. And Paul Pierce was a great player and legend. BUT Kawhi is hands down the better player. Once Kawhi upped the ante scoring wise, only the guys like a Bron, Bird, KD, Baylor, and Doc can be considered just as good or better peak-prime wise.

[StrongLurk]

Once again, u gotta realize that Kawhi ALREADY has two rings AND two Finals MVPs. On two different teams in two different conferences nonetheless! That right there takes a HUGE LOAD off his back in terms of getting in the top 25 GOAT. WANNA KNOW WHY?? Because MOST GUYS in the top 25 don't have that combination of 2 rings AND 2 Finals MVPs! From there, u gotta look at Kawhi AT HIS BEST compared to everybody else at the SF spot. It's not a stretch at all to see that Kawhi is a top 5 SF ever peak-prime wise. He's in that mix with Bron, Bird, KD, and Dr. J. Some may not agree of course. BUT he's the best two way SF EVER! Nobody else combined defense and scoring like he does. Bron and Hondo come the closest among the 3 spot.

So when u factor ALL THIS SHIT, he just needs more longevity being a great player to be a top 25 GOAT. At his best, he's a top 5 caliber SF of all time. He has 2 rings and 2 Finals MVPs before he even hit 30. Accolades and peak-prime value like that push u up the charts faster. And Paul Pierce was a great player and legend. BUT Kawhi is hands down the better player. Once Kawhi upped the ante scoring wise, only the guys like a Bron, Bird, KD, Baylor, and Doc can be considered just as good or better peak-prime wise.

Kawhi only has one ring and one FMVP on an all-time good level. His ring/FMVP in 2014 don't mean shit for his all-time rankings because he didn't play at an all-time level. The Spurs were an ultimate TEAM and he was a key cog...but he was just a cog. Pretty Kawhi averaged like 14ppg for that whole playoff run...not noteworthy at all.

Two, you could argue that even though Kawhi was excellent in the 2019 playoffs...he would have had zero chance at winning a ring if KD and Klay were fully healthy...so he got a lucky break there big time. KD was averaging like 35ppg heading into the finals.

[Axe]

Imagine if kawhi never to deal with load management, he would be a far better player than he is rn.

[Whoah10115]

Once again, u gotta realize that Kawhi ALREADY has two rings AND two Finals MVPs. On two different teams in two different conferences nonetheless! That right there takes a HUGE LOAD off his back in terms of getting in the top 25 GOAT. WANNA KNOW WHY?? Because MOST GUYS in the top 25 don't have that combination of 2 rings AND 2 Finals MVPs! From there, u gotta look at Kawhi AT HIS BEST compared to everybody else at the SF spot. It's not a stretch at all to see that Kawhi is a top 5 SF ever peak-prime wise. He's in that mix with Bron, Bird, KD, and Dr. J. Some may not agree of course. BUT he's the best two way SF EVER! Nobody else combined defense and scoring like he does. Bron and Hondo come the closest among the 3 spot.

So when u factor ALL THIS SHIT, he just needs more longevity being a great player to be a top 25 GOAT. At his best, he's a top 5 caliber SF of all time. He has 2 rings and 2 Finals MVPs before he even hit 30. Accolades and peak-prime value like that push u up the charts faster. And Paul Pierce was a great player and legend. BUT Kawhi is hands down the better player. Once Kawhi upped the ante scoring wise, only the guys like a Bron, Bird, KD, Baylor, and Doc can be considered just as good or better peak-prime wise.

Why should he be ahead of Hondo as a 2way? Why is he clearly ahead defensively? And Hondo scored a bunch.

If we're just cramming accomplishments into someone's all-time ranking, sure. He has Barkley beat, but Barkley will always be ahead of him and when ranking players based on playing, will always be ahead of Kawhi.

Larry and LeBron are so far ahead of Kawhi, peak or otherwise, and neither will change. Kawhi isn't better than Dr. J, or Rick Barry peak-wise...and Barry played long enough. He isn't better than Durant. A lot of a jump for someone to get into top 5 peaks. And again, just looking at playing, I can take Pierce.

[knicksman]

And this is what separates low IQs from high IQs. Low IQs focus on the cover coz they just dont have the capacity for content/substance. So for them durant is higher than kawhi coz durant has an MVP but for high IQs, theres no way well choose lebron/durant over kawhi. Hes the only other player that won with 2 franchises without superteam. Hes a proven player while lebron/durant arent.

[houston]

OP is right. Who you taking Kawhi over career wise of these 25 players?

1. MJ
2. LeBron
3. Kareem
4. Wilt
5. Shaq
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Duncan
10. Russell
11. Kobe
12. Big O
13. Jerry West
14. David Robinson
15. KG
16. KD
17. Karl Malone
18. Barkley
19. Steph
20. Dr. J
21. Wade
22. CP3
23. Dirk
24. Bob Pettit
25. Moses Malone


Then you have guys like John Stockton, Rick Barry, John Havlicek, Scottie Pippen, Patrick Ewing, Willis Reed, Elgin Baylor, Steve Nash, Gary Payton, Walt Frazier, Jason Kidd, Clyde Drexler, Kevin McHale, James Harden, etc etc.

Kawhi has had 4 elite seasons and even in those seasons he always missed a lot of games. That isn’t very much. If you rank Kawhi that high you have to rank Bill Walton fairly high too. And T-Mac and George Mikan and Penny Hardaway.



Kawhi is in that Grant Hill/Scottie Pippen/T-Mac level. I mean shoot even as All-time great SF does he crack top 10.


Lebron
Bird
Durant
Dr. J
Baylor
Havichek
Barry
Pippen
Hill
Wilkins
Cunnigham

Leonard is a lil overrated but he alright

[bizil]

Kawhi only has one ring and one FMVP on an all-time good level. His ring/FMVP in 2014 don't mean shit for his all-time rankings because he didn't play at an all-time level. The Spurs were an ultimate TEAM and he was a key cog...but he was just a cog. Pretty Kawhi averaged like 14ppg for that whole playoff run...not noteworthy at all.

Two, you could argue that even though Kawhi was excellent in the 2019 playoffs...he would have had zero chance at winning a ring if KD and Klay were fully healthy...so he got a lucky break there big time. KD was averaging like 35ppg heading into the finals.

FOR STARTERS, GOAT shit factors:

Solo accolades
Team Accolades
Numbers
Peak-prime status
Longevity being great
Impact on the league (redefining a position, rules change because of you, being a face of the league, etc.)

ACCOLADES ARE ACCOLADES!!!! Two rings, two Finals MVPs, 2 DPOYS, All Star Game MVP, 5x All League D, 4 Time All Star, and 3x All NBA his a HELL OF A START for a player ONLY 28 years old!!! All that shit COUNTS on a GOAT list! U can't MINIMIZE what he has done thus far in his career. I'm NOT SAYING he's top 25 GOAT yet! But he's CERTAINLY on track!

Bottom line is GOAT status is your overall RESUME! If u get to knitpicking, then u GOTTA do it for everybody! How about the Pistons winning a ring when the Lakers roster was missing Magic and B Scott due to hamstring injuries?? I can go on down the list of shit that has happened in league history. BOTTOM LINE is the Raptors were in position to WIN THE DAMN RING by winning the East. Their is no asterisk at all in the record books. Those rings and Finals MVPs are DAMN SURE factored into Kawhi's resume. If u gonna dock him, start docking ALL THE LEGENDS who had luck on their side!!! Luck is when opportunity meets preparation!! His 2014 Finals MVP doesn't mean shit BECAUSE he didn't play on an all time level??? GTFOH!!!! So Kawhi gets DOCKED because he stepped his weight up and CAME OF AGE on the biggest stage!!!! That was his coming out party and he EVOLVED FROM THERE!!!

[Stephonit]

FOR STARTERS, GOAT shit factors:

ACCOLADES ARE ACCOLADES!!!! Two rings, two Finals MVPs

For a top player a ring and a FMVP are virtually the same thing. There's nothing more a great player who won a ring did that he didn't do to get a FMVP except win a poll of 11 media representatives. It's double counting.

[Mamba4Life]

For a top player a ring and a FMVP are virtually the same thing. There's nothing more a great player who won a ring did that he didn't do to get a FMVP except win a poll of 11 media representatives. It's double counting.


Glad to know Manu Ginobili has 4 FMVPs dumbass :oldlol:

[Stephonit]

Glad to know Manu Ginobili has 4 FMVPs dumbass :oldlol:

He might as well. That's the value of a FMVP.

[bizil]

For a top player a ring and a FMVP are virtually the same thing. There's nothing more a great player who won a ring did that he didn't do to get a FMVP except win a poll of 11 media representatives. It's double counting.

GTFOH!!! It's not double counting!!!! A FMVP is a solo accolade!!! A ring is a team accolade!!! Two TOTALLY different things! All great players who have won rings DON'T get a Finals MVP! Now we are MINIMIZING Finals MVPs!!!! Some of yall posters are CLOWNS!!! The ring is the most important thing don't get me wrong! But the Finals MVP is still a MAJOR ACCOLADE!!!! That FOR DAMN SURE carries weight on a GOAT resume!!!

[bizil]

Why should he be ahead of Hondo as a 2way? Why is he clearly ahead defensively? And Hondo scored a bunch.

If we're just cramming accomplishments into someone's all-time ranking, sure. He has Barkley beat, but Barkley will always be ahead of him and when ranking players based on playing, will always be ahead of Kawhi.

Larry and LeBron are so far ahead of Kawhi, peak or otherwise, and neither will change. Kawhi isn't better than Dr. J, or Rick Barry peak-wise...and Barry played long enough. He isn't better than Durant. A lot of a jump for someone to get into top 5 peaks. And again, just looking at playing, I can take Pierce.

I'm FULLY AWARE of Hondo's greatness! Just saying I think Kawhi's size, athletic ability,and scoring ability AS A PACKAGE make him better than Hondo in the TWO WAY SENSE! Kawhi, Bron, and Hondo are my top 3 SF's OF ALL TIME in terms of two way ability! The defensive versatility that Kawhi and Bron have COUPLED with their athletic ability EVOLVED what Hondo did as a two way phenom at the SF position. SO CHILL THE **** OUT!!! I gave Hondo MAJOR PROPS and grouped him with those guys!

And SECONDLY do u know how to comprehend shit??? I said Kawhi ISN'T a top 25 GOAT YET!! BUT he's certainly on track for top 25 GOAT and EVEN HIGHER that that. It's about the longevity he can exhibit going forward being a great player. And even if he SLIPS from being a superstar level player to an All Star level player a bit prematurely, he STILL will add key accolades and numbers along the way to add to his resume. KEEP telling some of u DAMN POSTERS that GOAT status is your overall resume!!

Plus I ALREADY SAID that Bron,Bird, KD, and Dr.J are better players peak-prime wise. When it comes to Pierce, Kawhi AT THIS POINT is every bit the scorer, passer, and rebounder that Pierce was. And is BY FAR the better defender! LMAO!!!! NO GM is gonna draft peak Pierce OVER Kawhi! Just not gonna happen! Kawhi's two way ability is TOO EPIC to pass up!!

And Pierce isn't a Bird-KD-Dr. J level SF for teams to overlook that shit!!! Those guys don't have Kawhi's defensive ability EITHER! But they are so dominant in other areas, MVPs, one of the true faces of the league, and top 2-3 caliber players IN THEIR ERAS!!! As great as Pierce was, he was never Bird-KD-Doc level at the SF spot. Those three were so great, they could SUPERCEDE the edge Kawhi would have on them in terms of two way ability!

[Stephonit]

GTFOH!!! It's not double counting!!!! A FMVP is a solo accolade!!! A ring is a team accolade!!! Two TOTALLY different things! All great players who have won rings DON'T get a Finals MVP! Now we are MINIMIZING Finals MVPs!!!! Some of yall posters are CLOWNS!!! The ring is the most important thing don't get me wrong! But the Finals MVP is still a MAJOR ACCOLADE!!!! That FOR DAMN SURE carries weight on a GOAT resume!!!

FMVPs are statistically suspect in all facets. It's a rule of thumb in statistics that there should at minimum be a sample size of 30 to make a conclusion of 90% confidence. But the number of players under consideration are less than that. The number of games are less than that. The number of voters are less than that. From a procedural standpoint it is a farce. It's a popularity contest nothing more. What makes it a major accolade? Nothing more than the vested interest media's say-so. Everything you need to know about a FMVP is found in the games of the finals. The award is redundant at best and misleading at worst. It inserts itself at the last moment to manipulate popular opinion of the result. Who won a ring? That tells you 99% of all you need to know.

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SkY9R8o3CM

Kawhi is currently in the top 25.

[RRR3]

FMVPs are statistically suspect in all facets. It's a rule of thumb in statistics that there should at minimum be a sample size of 30 to make a conclusion of 90% confidence. But the number of players under consideration are less than that. The number of games are less than that. The number of voters are less than that. From a procedural standpoint it is a farce. It's a popularity contest nothing more. What makes it a major accolade? Nothing more than the vested interest media's say-so. Everything you need to know about a FMVP is found in the games of the finals. The award is redundant at best and misleading at worst. It inserts itself at the last moment to manipulate popular opinion of the result. Who won a ring? That tells you 99% of all you need to know.
You only don't value FMVPs because your hero Curry never has won one :oldlol:

Transparent AF

[Axe]

FMVPs are statistically suspect in all facets. It's a rule of thumb in statistics that there should at minimum be a sample size of 30 to make a conclusion of 90% confidence. But the number of players under consideration are less than that. The number of games are less than that. The number of voters are less than that. From a procedural standpoint it is a farce. It's a popularity contest nothing more. What makes it a major accolade? Nothing more than the vested interest media's say-so. Everything you need to know about a FMVP is found in the games of the finals. The award is redundant at best and misleading at worst. It inserts itself at the last moment to manipulate popular opinion of the result. Who won a ring? That tells you 99% of all you need to know.
0/5

[red1]

You only don't value FMVPs because your hero Curry never has won one :oldlol:

Transparent AF

too predictable :oldlol:

[Stephonit]

You only don't value FMVPs because your hero Curry never has won one :oldlol:

Transparent AF

Curry could make the finals three more times and I'd be happier if he didn't win any of them. Curry is bigger than the FMVP and I want that to be clear. Knowing the media though if that were to happen they'd give it to him even if he didn't deserve it in which case I hope he shows up to shake Bill Russell's hand recite some paean to teamwork and then leave the award untouched.

[RRR3]

Curry could make the finals three more times and I'd be happier if he didn't win any of them. Curry is bigger than the FMVP and I want that to be clear. Knowing the media though if that were to happen they'd give it to him even if he didn't deserve it in which case I hope he shows up to shake Bill Russell's hand recite some paean to teamwork and then leave the award untouched.
Whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night man.

[Stephonit]

Whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night man.

I don't tell myself anything at night to go to sleep. Why? Do you?

[Whoah10115]

I'm FULLY AWARE of Hondo's greatness! Just saying I think Kawhi's size, athletic ability,and scoring ability AS A PACKAGE make him better than Hondo in the TWO WAY SENSE! Kawhi, Bron, and Hondo are my top 3 SF's OF ALL TIME in terms of two way ability! The defensive versatility that Kawhi and Bron have COUPLED with their athletic ability EVOLVED what Hondo did as a two way phenom at the SF position. SO CHILL THE **** OUT!!! I gave Hondo MAJOR PROPS and grouped him with those guys!

And SECONDLY do u know how to comprehend shit??? I said Kawhi ISN'T a top 25 GOAT YET!! BUT he's certainly on track for top 25 GOAT and EVEN HIGHER that that. It's about the longevity he can exhibit going forward being a great player. And even if he SLIPS from being a superstar level player to an All Star level player a bit prematurely, he STILL will add key accolades and numbers along the way to add to his resume. KEEP telling some of u DAMN POSTERSthat GOAT status is your overall resume!!

Plus I ALREADY SAID that Bron,Bird, KD, and Dr.J are better players peak-prime wise. When it comes to Pierce, Kawhi AT THIS POINT is every bit the scorer, passer, and rebounder that Pierce was. And is BY FAR the better defender! LMAO!!!! NO GM is gonna draft peak Pierce OVER Kawhi! Just not gonna happen! Kawhi's two way ability is TOO EPIC to pass up!!

And Pierce isn't a Bird-KD-Dr. J level SF for teams to overlook that shit!!! Those guys don't have Kawhi's defensive ability EITHER! But they are so dominant in other areas, MVPs, one of the true faces of the league, and top 2-3 caliber players IN THEIR ERAS!!! As great as Pierce was, he was never Bird-KD-Doc level at the SF spot. Those three were so great, they could SUPERCEDE the edge Kawhi would have on them in terms of two way ability!

Pierce is a much better scorer than Kawhi.

Much much. And better playmaker.

There is no argument for Kawhi being at Pierce's level as a scorer.

And a little rude. I understood what you said. I said it won't be a formality. And I think unlikely he will be. Also chilling out...I just told you why I disagree, but you went off the handle, don't you think?

Bird, LeBron, Dr. J, Barry, Durant..all better peaks, easily.

[Axe]

Curry could make the finals three more times and I'd be happier if he didn't win any of them. Curry is bigger than the FMVP and I want that to be clear. Knowing the media though if that were to happen they'd give it to him even if he didn't deserve it in which case I hope he shows up to shake Bill Russell's hand recite some paean to teamwork and then leave the award untouched.
Sorry but no king rules forever. In your case, you think curry is.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Pierce is a much better scorer than Kawhi.

Much much. And better playmaker.

There is no argument for Kawhi being at Pierce's level as a scorer.

And a little rude. I understood what you said. I said it won't be a formality. And I think unlikely he will be. Also chilling out...I just told you why I disagree, but you went off the handle, don't you think?

Bird, LeBron, Dr. J, Barry, Durant..all better peaks, easily.

Paul Pierce is a much much much better scorer than Kawhi? What? Even Paul Pierce wouldn't say that lmao. But I know that you hate Kawhi. Don't know why though.

[LAL]

Paul Pierce is a much much much better scorer than Kawhi? What? Even Paul Pierce wouldn't say that lmao. But I know that you hate Kawhi. Don't know why though.

You are one of few who's making sense in this topic. And what a topic.
Is it a coincedince that KD, Curry and Kawhi are not very liked here? They have more talent and skill than lebron and same ring count basically? They all beat him. What if Kawhi or Kobe joined Wade, Bosh and Allen in the east after zero rings? Y'all wouldn't have clowned them? No let's focus on KD's warriors and his "worthless" rings, Kawhi's stats and Curry's 0 fmvp's. Nerds.

[Drygon]

Na.. It's called the eye test. Kawhi was just unfortunate to played his career on the West and Lebron was fortunate to play on the East

Kawhi first year in East = champion

Lebron first year in West = miss playoff

Let us know when Lebron does something clutch in the Western Playoff, but until then Kawhi is better than Lebron

LeBron never had a playoff-run in the East where he played against teams as good as 76ers, Bucks.

[Stephonit]

You are one of few who's making sense in this topic. And what a topic.
Is it a coincedince that KD, Curry and Kawhi are not very liked here? They have more talent and skill than lebron and same ring count basically? They all beat him. What if Kawhi or Kobe joined Wade, Bosh and Allen in the east after zero rings? Y'all wouldn't have clowned them? No let's focus on KD's warriors and his "worthless" rings, Kawhi's stats and Curry's 0 fmvp's. Nerds.

You new here? The fans of the manufactured player of this generation have been misled by the media into believing he is the greatest thing since sliced bread and they spam boards all across the internet in desperation to validate the results of their Pavlovian training but slowly grow more desperate and insecure when they don't find that validation because it doesn't exist. The result is the mess you see. Don't get too worked up over it. They generally self-destruct although they have an annoying habit of coming back as alts.

[LAL]

You new here? The fans of the manufactured player of this generation have been misled by the media into believing he is the greatest thing since sliced bread and they spam boards all across the internet in desperation to validate the results of their Pavlovian training but slowly grow more desperate and insecure when they don't find that validation because it doesn't exist. The result is the mess you see. Don't get too worked up over it. They generally self-destruct although they have an annoying habit of coming back as alts.

:cheers:

[brownmamba00]

Right now it's difficult to say but if he brings a chip to the Clipps; which will happen at some point. He'll be top 10 material easily.

[StrongLurk]

Right now it's difficult to say but if he brings a chip to the Clipps; which will happen at some point. He'll be top 10 material easily.

Kahwi would have to do way more incredible things to get into the top 10. Way too many players before him who produced at a high level for a LONG time, but didn't play on elite teams every year of their careers like Kawhi has.

[Whoah10115]

Paul Pierce is a much much much better scorer than Kawhi? What? Even Paul Pierce wouldn't say that lmao. But I know that you hate Kawhi. Don't know why though.

Goodness. Based on? What, telling you that you're wrong about him being the best perimeter defender ever?

What would Pierce score in this era? Pierce is a better scorer. Much much is more a reaction to someone not recognizing that.

Ah well.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Goodness. Based on? What, telling you that you're wrong about him being the best perimeter defender ever?

What would Pierce score in this era? Pierce is a better scorer. Much much is more a reaction to someone not recognizing that.

Ah well.
What is Pierce better at? 3 point shot? Midrange? Under the rim? Better slasher? Off ball moving? Free throws? What makes Paul Pierce a better scorer? Oh and please dont give me that" he would have scored 40 in this era" bullsht. And dont forget that we are comparing their peaks.

[Whoah10115]

What is Pierce better at? 3 point shot? Midrange? Under the rim? Better slasher? Off ball moving? Free throws? What makes Paul Pierce a better scorer? Oh and please dont give me that" he would have scored 40 in this era" bullsht. And dont forget that we are comparing their peaks.

He's a better shooter, better at driving to the lane.

He gets to the line more. He's not as good as Wade, but scoring wise he's on par. And they're both well above Kawhi.

Kawhi is better at getting his shot from midrange, I think, and in the open court and transition. But Pierce has better handles, and has a better post game as well.

[Akeem34TheDream]

He's a better shooter, better at driving to the lane.

He gets to the line more. He's not as good as Wade, but scoring wise he's on par. And they're both well above Kawhi.

Kawhi is better at getting his shot from midrange, I think, and in the open court and transition. But Pierce has better handles, and has a better post game as well.

Only part I agree is that he draws foul more. I guess we will disagree in this subject too. But Kawhi is really good man. He was on his way to win another title too. Shame.

[Whoah10115]

Only part I agree is that he draws foul more. I guess we will disagree in this subject too. But Kawhi is really good man. He was on his way to win another title too. Shame.

Never questioned whether or not he's great and one of the top players. But don't agree on rest.

Also, they were in contention. Not on the way. I won't root for them, as I don't like the way they were put together, and I've long stopped liking Doc. And with him as the coach, it's a bit of an uphill battle.