How good was Peak Kobe?

[Turbo Slayer]

Top 10 alltime peak? Top 5? Top 20?

:confusedshrug:

[red1]

much much better than curry.


kobe was a kd-kawhi tier player. 2nd best in the league after lebron.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Peak Kobe was the closest thing to SECOND 3-peat Jordan imo. Don't think he was as good or equal, but somewhere in that ballpark.

[SouBeachTalents]

One of the lesser talked about players, I'd have to think about it

[red1]

One of the lesser talked about players, I'd have to think about it

:roll:

[RRR3]

I'll save you some time OP

ImKobe: literally god
3ball: Better than LeBron because LeBron's ball dominance leads to underachieving teams and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Lambruh and his alts: Overrated trash
Everyone else: Amazing

[Manny98]

His peak was kind of overrated imo but still a top 20 peak of all time

I'd honestly take peak Wade and Paul over peak Kobe tbh

[AlternativeAcc.]

I don't remember Kobe ever having a 'peak'

he was pretty much the same player his whole career, for better or worse. Incredibly high volume, low efficiency SG

[Atlantis]

Good enough to score 81. :rockon:

[Fireball1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9NILK4OXpo&t=364s

There´s your answer.

[LAmbruh]

a regular season super star

[AlternativeAcc.]

a regular season super star

All his best moments seem to be in regular season against bad teams and all-star (exhibition) games

Would you say that's accurate?

[Vino24]

I like to introduce myself to everybody on this NBA forum. I am mainly a RealGM poster.

I just registered here to see what ISH looks like and feels. I heard that ISH is infested with trolls from Realgm general board. Is that true???

Anyway, Im not looking to become full time on ISH. I mostly post on Realgm. I just wanna see what ISH looks like.
What’s your main account on here?

[LAmbruh]

All his best moments seem to be in regular season against bad teams and all-star (exhibition) games

Would you say that's accurate?

I would tend to agree

Him similar to Curry most memorable moments came in meaningless games during the regular season. (IE: 81 pts Raptors, peaked in OKC)

Neither Kobe nor Curry really have that peak playoff resume. Infact Kobe's peak that most people argue, ended in the lottery and first round exits (2005-06)

[AlternativeAcc.]

I would tend to agree

Him similar to Curry most memorable moments came in meaningless games during the regular season. (IE: 81 pts Raptors, peaked in OKC)

Neither Kobe nor Curry really have that peak playoff resume. Infact Kobe's peak that most people argue, ended in the lottery and first round exits (2005-06)

Wow that's interesting

You would think a guy with 5 championship rings would have a lot more notable playoff moments. Some guys just don't thrive when the lights shine the brightest

Nothing wrong with being a regular season star though. Curry, Nash, Kobe can be argued as top 40 alltime players

[Fireball1]

Wow that's interesting

You would think a guy with 5 championship rings would have a lot more notable playoff moments. Some guys just don't thrive when the lights shine the brightest

Nothing wrong with being a regular season star though. Curry, Nash, Kobe can be argued as top 40 alltime players Kobe should be ranked higher than top 40. That´s disrespecting Kobe. He deserves to be top 15. (Imo he deserves to be top 15 but not top 5)

I don´t know you but you clearly have an agenda to discredit Kobe by placing him top 40.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Kobe should be ranked higher than top 40. That´s disrespecting Kobe. He deserves to be top 15. (Imo he deserves to be top 15 but not top 5)

I don´t know you but you clearly have an agenda to discredit Kobe by placing him top 40.

Hi warriorfan

[Fireball1]

Hi warriorfan ???

[Fireball1]

When Kobe was without Shaq he averaged 5 creations per 100. He is the only player to match young Jordan in that regard.

[red1]

Good enough to score 81. :rockon:

devin booker scored 70.

[Jay-B]

So good

[bobopenguin]

how young do u have to be to ask question like this?

[jstern]

Like Larry Bird says, if you want to win championships, get Kobe. His impact goes beyond stats, because he's always pushing forward, demanding that everyone from the owners to the 12th man is on the same page about winning championships. Always looking for that extra edge. That goes a long way. It's why Larry Bird picks him if you want to win. It's not a coincidence why a player like Kobe has a winning Finals record. It's not a coincidence why players and GMs had him as the best of the last generation, despite the media judging simply by stats.

[GimmeThat]

safe measure is roughly, he'll win you a quarter in the regular season by himself, one game in the playoff by himself

[Mr Feeny]

much much better than curry.


kobe was a kd-kawhi tier player. 2nd best in the league after lebron.

Durant and kawhi are arguably better than Lebron. And were arguably better the past few seasons, depending on your stance. There wasn't much between any of the three.

Prime Lebron, on the other hand, was atleast a tier above anyone in basketball. And late 2000s Wade was the only one close (and not necessarily that close). Kobe wasn't 2nd best when Lebron was at his peak.

I don't think their peaks coincided at all. If the argument is that Lobe was the best of 2nd best in 2006 and 2007, Dirk was a better player than Lebron (probably the best in the league) at that point.

[Mr Feeny]

His peak was kind of overrated imo but still a top 20 peak of all time

I'd honestly take peak Wade and Paul over peak Kobe tbh

Everyone would. It doesn't mean they have better careers or would necessarily be higher on an all time list, because longevity and resume matter to most people.

But peak for peak, Wade and Paul were top 10-15 all time.

[Axe]

Bryant was just a hell of a scoring machine. Who knows what could've been his stats in that aspect if not for some disruptive injuries he had to go through 3 years before his retirement from the league.

[Rysio]

Kobe was only forced 3 times to score shit load of points in his career 2nd half of 03 season 06 and 07 that's 200 games where kobe averaged 33 ppg 46% 50efg% 57ts% and had 19 50 point games lol can you imagine if kobe was forced to score so much in a 1000 games. He would have 80 - 100 50 point games while averaging 33-35 ppg so he was at his peak the goat scorer and one of the goat all around players.

[Back In Shape]

His peak was kind of overrated imo but still a top 20 peak of all time

I'd honestly take peak Wade and Paul over peak Kobe tbh




1. MJ
2.Kareem
3. Shaq
4. Hakeem
5. Russell
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Magic
9. Bird
10. Kobe
11. Lebron

Lebron's not top 10 but definitely top 20

You got Kobe as top 10 on lock remember. Don't back down now wheels.

[Turbo Slayer]

Kobe was only forced 3 times to score shit load of points in his career 2nd half of 03 season 06 and 07 that's 200 games where kobe averaged 33 ppg 46% 50efg% 57ts% and had 19 50 point games lol can you imagine if kobe was forced to score so much in a 1000 games. He would have 80 - 100 50 point games while averaging 33-35 ppg so he was at his peak the goat scorer and one of the goat all around players. Agreed. After the Lakers lost Shaq to the Heat and lost Malone and Payton. Phil Jackson also got fired... From there its was all downhill from there.

The Lakers had a terrible supporting cast around Kobe and Kobe was forced to carry the slack.

The Lakers also suffered injuries too...

It wasnt until the 2007-08 where the Lakers finally had a good supporting cast around and went to the Finals too.

Kobe was amazing man. Despite the Lakers being plain trash Kobe led the NBA in scoring in 2007 and 2006. :bowdown:

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe was amazing man. Despite the Lakers being plain trash Kobe led the NBA in scoring in 2007 and 2006. :bowdown:
I don't know why you act like that's so surprising, roughly half the scoring champs over the last 20 years were either stuck on bad teams or had poor offensive help around them.

You would assume the worse the team is, the most shots the star player is gonna put up

[Turbo Slayer]

I don't know why you act like that's so surprising, roughly half the scoring champs over the last 20 years were either stuck on bad teams or had poor offensive help around them.

You would assume the worse the team is, the most shots the star player is gonna put up Well its Kobe.

[Overdrive]

Kobe had the biggest benefit of any of the GOATlist players.

His peak happened when he was on a weak team and had the green light to do whatever he wanted. Most other guys had a supporting cast that needed them to play within a system.
So I think Kobe's peak was overmagnified yet still a top 10ish one.

[Turbo Slayer]

Kobe had the biggest benefit of any of the GOATlist players.

His peak happened when he was on a weak team and had the green light to do whatever he wanted. Most other guys had a supporting cast that needed them to play within a system.
So I think Kobe's peak was overmagnified yet still a top 10ish one. This.

[ArbitraryWater]

One of the lesser talked about players, I'd have to think about it


lmao

[LAL]

Kobe had the biggest benefit of any of the GOATlist players.

His peak happened when he was on a weak team and had the green light to do whatever he wanted. Most other guys had a supporting cast that needed them to play within a system.
So I think Kobe's peak was overmagnified yet still a top 10ish one.

You blame kobe for not averaging the same scoring numbers during his title runs as he was with smush and kwame years? You think he couldn't? Or did he take lesser shots, more team oriented and took over when necessary? to.. win titles?

:facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

You blame kobe for not averaging the same scoring numbers during his title runs as he was with smush and kwame years? You think he couldn't? Or did he take lesser shots, more team oriented and took over when necessary? to.. win titles?

:facepalm

Your comprehension is sadly low.

The case for most of Kobe supporters, however.

[LAL]

Your comprehension is sadly low.

The case for most of Kobe supporters, however.

Explain it to me then clown

[ArbitraryWater]

Explain it to me then clown

Kobe's peak happened on a no-expectations green light kind of team.

That's all the statement is.

[LAL]

Kobe's peak happened on a no-expectations green light kind of team.

That's all the statement is.

Why was that his peak? Why mention those years if his prime lasted 13 years? clown.

[SouBeachTalents]

Why was that his peak? Why mention those years if his prime lasted 13 years? clown.
When do you think his peak was?

[LAL]

When do you think his peak was?

2013

[HakeemAlHilm]

2013

The ****?

[ArbitraryWater]

Why was that his peak? Why mention those years if his prime lasted 13 years? clown.

What you're saying makes no sense.

You're just scrambling words together which are empty of logic.


2013

You're a helpless cause

[LAL]

What you're saying makes no sense.

You're just scrambling words together which are empty of logic.



You're a helpless cause

The ****?

Quote the guy who said kobe deserves lower ranking because his peak was 06 & 07 like that's a fact and other players had to share because they were playing on better teams or some crap like that. Bad take if your talking about kobe, who's prime lasted 13 years.. the last one is a top 2, 3 season personally, went downhill after that obviously.
If the discussion was about what player has better peaks then i wouldn't post.

[Hey Yo]

2013
That was his peak of taking multiple trips to Germany for illegal doping.

[Mr Feeny]

Quote the guy who said kobe deserves lower ranking because his peak was 06 & 07 like that's a fact and other players had to share because they were playing on better teams or some crap like that. Bad take if your talking about kobe, who's prime lasted 13 years.. the last one is a top 2, 3 season personally, went downhill after that obviously.
If the discussion was about what player has better peaks then i wouldn't post.
A 13 year prime? I don't know what you're smoking but his level of play fluctuated drastically during those 13 years.

His peak (which is what we are discussing) was probably 2006 and 2007. And someone correctly pointed out that Kobe had a green light that others didn't.

[RRR3]

A 13 year prime? I don't know what you're smoking but his level of play fluctuated drastically during those 13 years.

His peak (which is what we are discussing) was probably 2006 and 2007. And someone correctly pointed out that Kobe had a green light that others didn't.
You’re talking to someone who said Kobe was better than LeBron in 2013.

[Jay-B]

There were times when Kobe was more like Jordan than Jordan himself

Name me another NBA player in the past 30 years who was capable of hitting 12 3’s and double pump dunking on your starting center in the same game, I’m waiting

[Mr Feeny]

You’re talking to someone who said Kobe was better than LeBron in 2013.

The 2012-13 season? Lebron was the undisputed best player on the planet and at the peak of his powers. The only discussion was the Jordan-Lebron one because it was unanimously accepted that he was heads and shoulders above anyone in the league.

There is absolutely no argument for Kobe being anywhere near him that year. Kobe could have been at the lower end of the top 5. Lebron was comfortably entrenched in the top spot and there was a big gap between him and whoever was next in line. This is silly.

[Turbo Slayer]

LeBron also nearly won the 1st Unanimous MVP too. Thats how good he was in 2013.

[Turbo Slayer]

In case you all forget his greatness in 2013. Amazing. Watch it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTwq4-LEN8U

Notable moments:

1:15

5:55

[LAL]

A 13 year prime? I don't know what you're smoking but his level of play fluctuated drastically during those 13 years.

His peak (which is what we are discussing) was probably 2006 and 2007. And someone correctly pointed out that Kobe had a green light that others didn't.

No his prime lasted 13 years, i thought it ended in 2011 with the injuries, but was still dominant in 2012 despite the injuries and then 2013 a top 2, 3 season. Fluctuations, sure. Keeping the highest level of play basically for 13 years including one of his absolute best individually in the last, yes.


So 06, 07 were his peak years because he had the "green light" and were his best scoring averages? Jordan had better numbers in the 80's than the years he won titles? When was his peak?

[STATUTORY]

^^this guy really created a thread called "How good was peak KOBE" just to post Lebron highlgihts in it?!

:roll:

[Turbo Slayer]

^^this guy really created a thread called "How good was peak KOBE" just to post Lebron highlgihts in it?!

:roll: My post was simply to remind everyone that LeBron was the best player in 2013 not Kobe. Of course I won't post further LeBron highlights to derail the thread. But nonetheless, carry on...

[Fireball1]

LeBron was better than Kobe in 2013. There's absolutely no debate.

[SouBeachTalents]

My post was simply to remind everyone that LeBron was the best player in 2013 not Kobe. Of course I won't post further LeBron highlights to derail the thread. But nonetheless, carry on...
Good thing too, without that well timed video we may have all forgotten

[Overdrive]

Quote the guy who said kobe deserves lower ranking because his peak was 06 & 07 like that's a fact and other players had to share because they were playing on better teams or some crap like that. Bad take if your talking about kobe, who's prime lasted 13 years.. the last one is a top 2, 3 season personally, went downhill after that obviously.
If the discussion was about what player has better peaks then i wouldn't post.


You blame kobe for not averaging the same scoring numbers during his title runs as he was with smush and kwame years? You think he couldn't? Or did he take lesser shots, more team oriented and took over when necessary? to.. win titles?

:facepalm

I never said he deserves lower ranking or he is to blame for anything. What I'm saying is that Kobe had seasons where he played within a system and won titles, but it didn't highlight him as much as an individual player as the Smush years did. What's wrong about it? His peak definately doesn't deserve a higher ranking, because he had the green light, else TMac's 2003 would be a top 10 peak season AT. Do you think 03 TMac is as great as Kobe? Peaks also have to be put into context.

Saying 2013 was his best is borderline retarded. It was a throwbackseason, but not much else.



So 06, 07 were his peak years because he had the "green light" and were his best scoring averages? Jordan had better numbers in the 80's than the years he won titles? When was his peak?

It's not about scoring averages. Peak is when physical, mental aspects and experience have their biggest overlap in terms a players top capabilities. With Kobe that coinceded with his best scoring seasons.

[LAL]

I never said he deserves lower ranking or he is to blame for anything. What I'm saying is that Kobe had seasons where he played within a system and won titles, but it didn't highlight him as much as an individual player as the Smush years did. What's wrong about it? His peak definately doesn't deserve a higher ranking, because he had the green light, else TMac's 2003 would be a top 10 peak season AT. Do you think 03 TMac is as great as Kobe? Peaks also have to be put into context.

Saying 2013 was his best is borderline retarded. It was a throwbackseason, but not much else.
Peak statistically or peak by level of play?

Mcgrady probably has a top 10 peak season, that's not the discussion. Kobe's prime lasted 13 years, that is one of the reasons he's better, keep it simple.

Me saying 2013 is top 2,3 is not crazy, also have to be put into context

[LAL]

It's not about scoring averages. Peak is when physical, mental aspects and experience have their biggest overlap in terms a players top capabilities. With Kobe that coinceded with his best scoring seasons.
Why would that be 06 and 07 only? The losing years.

[tpols]

just think of it this way... if 2013 kobe was better than lebron, just imagine how much better 06-08 kobe wouldve been.

[Overdrive]

Peak statistically or peak by level of play?

Mcgrady probably has a top 10 peak season, that's not the discussion. Kobe's prime lasted 13 years, that is one of the reasons he's better, keep it simple.

Me saying 2013 is top 2,3 is not crazy, also have to be put into context

How is TMac's 03 better than any of the top 10 GOAT's best seasons? 2013 top 2 or 3 season by Kobe? I mean you're arguing it was a better season than peak Lebron. That in itself invalidates anything you say anyway.


Why would that be 06 and 07 only? The losing years.

Do you think you're cornering me with that question? Do you think I'm a stan/troll who only posts agenda driven BS? I'd have to disappoint you. Neither of ISH' troll circle jerk trinity players is in my personal top 10 list.

So here's some secret: A player's individual peak can be seperated from team success. Kobe was definately his best when the Lakers were a fringe playoff team mid '00. You put him on the 08-10 Lakers and they probably are a even better team. He already slowed down a tad when Gasol arrived, but arguing '08 being his peak year is steal feasible. No way 06 Kobe goes 6 for 24 in a G7.

[ImKobe]

Peak Kobe could do everything, from scoring 35 to running the offense to guarding the best opposing perimeter player. Not a single weakness in his game. He was somewhere between 1st and 2nd 3-Peat Jordan. Better than 96-98 MJ but not quite as efficient as peak Jordan, but had better 3PT shooting ability and could make tougher shots, not quite the athlete but skill-wise he was up there.

[LAL]

How is TMac's 03 better than any of the top 10 GOAT's best seasons? 2013 top 2 or 3 season by Kobe? I mean you're arguing it was a better season than peak Lebron. That in itself invalidates anything you say anyway.



Do you think you're cornering me with that question? Do you think I'm a stan/troll who only posts agenda driven BS? I'd have to disappoint you. Neither of ISH' troll circle jerk trinity players is in my personal top 10 list.

So here's some secret: A player's individual peak can be seperated from team success. Kobe was definately his best when the Lakers were a fringe playoff team mid '00. You put him on the 08-10 Lakers and they probably are a even better team. He already slowed down a tad when Gasol arrived, but arguing '08 being his peak year is steal feasible. No way 06 Kobe goes 6 for 24 in a G7.

It's not about scoring averages. Peak is when physical, mental aspects and experience have their biggest overlap in terms a players top capabilities.
His physical peak was 03.. pretty banged up after that, mental peak and experience.. 03 to '13? No? :D Nobody talks about 80's MJ being his peak. You talk about
that game 7 and how 06 kobe would not shoot that bad, maybe not but have you seen kobe in the playoffs in 08, 09 and 10? Peak mentally and experience, no?


Kobe had the biggest benefit of any of the GOATlist players.

I thought this was trollish bronsexual crap. My bad i was wrong. I just don't believe in "peak year" with kobe, was as great in 2001 as he was in other years for example. green light or no green light

[ImKobe]

His physical peak was 03.. pretty banged up after that, mental peak and experience.. 03 to '13? No? :D Nobody talks about 80's MJ being his peak. You talk about
that game 7 and how 06 kobe would not shoot that bad, maybe not but have you seen kobe in the playoffs in 08, 09 and 10? Peak mentally and experience, no?



I thought this was trollish bronsexual crap. My bad i was wrong. I just don't believe in "peak year" with kobe, was as great in 2001 as he was in other years for example.

06 Kobe shot well in that Game 7, he had 23 points on 8/13 shooting in the first half, but they were still down 15 points so he changed his strategy & it didn't pay off because they still couldn't stop the Suns defensively & his teammates couldn't make shots in that 2nd half.

As far as best version goes, it would be 08-10 Kobe. He still had the same ability, but was a far more willing team player and knew how to pick his spots better.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

People saying 09 and 10 are Kobe's best versions put too much priority on rings

That or they never saw 06-08 Kobe. The guy who had all the skills later versions did, but the skills too.

[SouBeachTalents]

People saying 09 and 10 are Kobe's best versions put too much priority on rings

That or they never saw 06-08 Kobe. The guy who had all the skills later versions did, but the skills too.
That's the biggest irony about Kobe stans, they constantly hype up ring count as being the most significant criteria, yet his peak seasons (06-08) all ended with him winning 0 rings :lol

[ImKobe]

That's the biggest irony about Kobe stans, they constantly hype up ring count as being the most significant criteria, yet his peak seasons (06-08) all ended with him winning 0 rings :lol

Put peak Lebron with Kwame Brown, Luke Walton & Smush Parker in the tough West, and tell me how many Finals he would have made.

[imdaman99]

The best I ever rooted for. Unfortunately the other guys I rooted for are ringless :( I didn't celebrate the Lakers championships, but I was happy for Kobe, during his repeat.

[SouBeachTalents]

Put peak Lebron with Kwame Brown, Luke Walton & Smush Parker in the tough West, and tell me how many Finals he would have made.
I don't criticize him for not winning, especially '06 & '07, but you'd think those years would teach you not winning a ring doesn't invalidate how great you were, nor automatically make someone else a better player if they do

[ImKobe]

I don't criticize him for not winning, especially '06 & '07, but you'd think those years would teach you not winning a ring doesn't invalidate how great you were, nor automatically make someone else a better player if they do

That's his athletic/scoring peak, but he never stopped working on his game and looked like a far more polished product in 08-10. His numbers peaked in 06/07 because he was in his athletic prime and played on a bad team, so he had the green light to shoot as much as he wanted. He was definitely a better teammate & a more willing playmaker from 08-10.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's the biggest irony about Kobe stans, they constantly hype up ring count as being the most significant criteria, yet his peak seasons (06-08) all ended with him winning 0 rings :lol

Yeah. Meant to say the skills AND athleticism in my post. You got the point though.

Its a clusterfukk for the fanboys because RINGS are the only argument they use. Kobe was getting his knee drained in the 2010 playoffs. And was clearly spent, physically. But yeah that's the BEST version of him lol

[Overdrive]

His physical peak was 03.. pretty banged up after that, mental peak and experience.. 03 to '13? No? :D Nobody talks about 80's MJ being his peak. You talk about
that game 7 and how 06 kobe would not shoot that bad, maybe not but have you seen kobe in the playoffs in 08, 09 and 10? Peak mentally and experience, no?


You still don't get it right? Peak Kobe is the best mix of '03 and '09.



I thought this was trollish bronsexual crap. My bad i was wrong. I just don't believe in "peak year" with kobe, was as great in 2001 as he was in other years for example. green light or no green light

No, it's not bronsexual crap. Most people view Kobe's peak somewhere between '06 and '08. No other top 10 player had the chance to have the best mix of athleticism and skills on a team where they could go all in without caring for team success. Doesn't matter if you believe in peak years when the damn thread is about that...


06 Kobe shot well in that Game 7, he had 23 points on 8/13 shooting in the first half, but they were still down 15 points so he changed his strategy & it didn't pay off because they still couldn't stop the Suns defensively & his teammates couldn't make shots in that 2nd half.

That was a reply to me saying 06 Kobe wouldn't have gone 6/24 in '10 G7.

[LAL]

Yeah. Meant to say the skills AND athleticism in my post. You got the point though.

Its a clusterfukk for the fanboys because RINGS are the only argument they use. Kobe was getting his knee drained in the 2010 playoffs. And was clearly spent, physically. But yeah that's the BEST version of him lol

No one is saying he was better than those years, those years were just part of his long ass prime. Didn't you watch 06 kobe with that knee brace and the few highlight dunks and then coming back next season out of shape after having surgery? Always battling injuries.

[ImKobe]

That was a reply to me saying 06 Kobe wouldn't have gone 6/24 in '10 G7.

Welp, '10 Kobe was getting his knee drained mid-Playoffs and had a broken index finger in his shooting hand, but he probably was smarter and a more willing team player than the '06 version, though you could argue that him being on a really bad team at his peak made him a "bad" teammate.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

No one is saying he was better than those years, those years were just part of his long ass prime. Didn't you watch 06 kobe with that knee brace and the few highlight dunks and then coming back next season out of shape after having surgery? Always battling injuries.

The guy with Kobe in his username is.

In 2006 Kobe wasn't wasn't hindered like in 2010. Getting fluid drained from his knee before playoff games. Not going to make excuses for him, but he clearly lost a step. Kobe was probably no more skilled or mentally tough than in his final year. Didn't matter though. His body was done.

[ImKobe]

The guy with Kobe in his username is.

In 2006 Kobe wasn't wasn't hindered like in 2010. Getting fluid drained from his knee before playoff games. Not going to make excuses for him, but he clearly lost a step. Kobe was probably no more skilled or mentally tough than in his final year. Didn't matter though. His body was done.

But 2010 Kobe still put up elite numbers (30/6/5) in the POs and had arguably his greatest statisical series ever against the Suns in that WCF, despite all the injuries he was dealing with. It's not like he stopped working on his game after 2006, he was better in certain aspects like scoring in the post and making plays for other teammates.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

But 2010 Kobe still put up elite numbers (30/6/5) in the POs and had arguably his greatest statisical series ever against the Suns in that WCF, despite all the injuries he was dealing with. It's not like he stopped working on his game after 2006, he was better in certain aspects like scoring in the post and making plays for other teammates.

Yea he did. I still consider 2010 Kobe's prime.

With Pau/Ron/Fish/LO 2006 Kobe would do the SAME thing though. Remember those daggers Bean hit in Grant Hill's face? He was doing that ALL YEAR in 2006 an 2007. I think the 2006 version has a better series against Boston too.

[LAL]

You still don't get it right? Peak Kobe is the best mix of '03 and '09.
Peak kobe is 03 UNTILL 09, that i can give you :D


No, it's not bronsexual crap. Most people view Kobe's peak somewhere between '06 and '08
Well i'm not most people dammit!

No other top 10 player had the chance to have the best mix of athleticism and skills on a team where they could go all in without caring for team success. Doesn't matter if you believe in peak years when the damn thread is about that...
My man didn't you say kobe had the biggest benefit of any of the GOATlist players because he had bad teams those 2 years? And they didn't. Maybe it's just my english.


Turbo, can you change the title to "peak kobe statistically" please, shits confusing

[Turbo Slayer]

Peak kobe is 03 UNTILL 09, that i can give you :D


Well i'm not most people dammit!

My man didn't you say kobe had the biggest benefit of any of the GOATlist players because he had bad teams? And they didn't. Maybe it's just my english.


Turbo, can you change the title to "peak kobe statistically" please, shits confusing Sure man no problem.

[ImKobe]

Yea he did. I still consider 2010 Kobe's prime.

With Pau/Ron/Fish/LO 2006 Kobe would do the SAME thing though. Remember those daggers Bean hit in Grant Hill's face? He was doing that ALL YEAR in 2006 an 2007. I think the 2006 version has a better series against Boston too.

That's a fair argument, though I think he still would have lost in '08 because Boston had a much better team with the Lakers missing Bynum & Ariza. You could make the same arguments for '01 and '03 Kobe,

[LAL]

Sure man no problem.

I wasn't really serious but okay, thx bro :cheers:

[Turbo Slayer]

Never mind.

[LAL]

I dont know how to change the title? Tf

It's cool bro

[Turbo Slayer]

It's cool bro

I did it :oldlol:

[Overdrive]

My man didn't you say kobe had the biggest benefit of any of the GOATlist players because he had bad teams those 2 years? And they didn't. Maybe it's just my english.


In terms of displaying his peak play, yes, he did. He didn't have to hold back to get other players touches etcetc.

[LAL]

In terms of displaying his peak play, yes, he did. He didn't have to hold back to get other players touches etcetc.


No other top 10 player had the chance to have the best mix of athleticism and skills on a team where they could go all in without caring for team success.

I'm still ****ing confused, honestly. Please just say peak "numbers wise" and call it day?

[LAL]

I did it :oldlol:

Why the hell not :cheers:

[RRR3]

just think of it this way... if 2013 kobe was better than lebron, just imagine how much better 06-08 kobe wouldve been.
Yeah and if the moon was made of cheese we could eat it. Shut the hell up, there is literally zero argument for Kobe vs. LeBron in 2013. It is not an argument at all.

[Overdrive]

I'm still ****ing confused, honestly. Please just say peak "numbers wise" and call it day?

Every sport is a numbers game. Of course numbers will reflect what I say, but they're the result, not the reason. Jordan had his best numbers before his peak for example.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yeah and if the moon was made of cheese we could eat it. Shut the hell up, there is literally zero argument for Kobe vs. LeBron in 2013. It is not an argument at all.

Kobe fans: there's no proof the moon isn't made of cheese :lol


But could you cut down on the cursing

[red1]

mj
lbj
kaj
shaq
magic
kobe
bird
duncan
hakeem

HM for the OGs wilt and russell

only the top-2 are in stone. I've got shaq magic kobe bird duncan all on a similar level and mike lebron and kareem a slight tier above.

[LAL]

Every sport is a numbers game. Of course numbers will reflect what I say, but they're the result, not the reason. Jordan had his best numbers before his peak for example.

Can't compare that with MJ's peak then, kobe had his own and different career, he aleady had a mature game since 01 as far post game, footwork and jumper, that's why it's difficult to tell with him.. and again, athletic peak ended after 03 and fluctuated after. people say MJ's peak might be 92 because his game matured more visibly since the 80's, and kobe studied his whole career ofcourse. It's not because MJ had his "peak" in the middle of his career that kobe had it too.

I'm going to let this go

[3ball]

Kobe had goat jumpshooting skill based on the sheer variety of his jumpshooting, and his ability to make contested shots.

Consequently, he had the 2nd best jumpshooting season ever based on volume coupled with effective FG% - in 06', he made over 700 jumpers - that's 250 more than Lebron and Curry's career high volume and at efficiency that would rank 3rd in Lebron's career (46% eFG)

There's no defense for a player making contested shots, so they command a double team.. Every game Kobe would get hot and cause a timeout for adjustments.. His quick-hitter ability kept the defense on their toes and always adjusting, so his style wore teams down thus reducing their freshness on offense (aka won the attrition battle)... Otoh, we know that coaches prefer to defend Lebron's weak-shooting, long dribbling rather than double-team and face ball movement.. his long-dribbe, weak shooting style doesn't shift defenses/wear down teams like the ball movement he faces at the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off.
.

[LAL]

Can't compare that with MJ's peak then, kobe had his own and different career, he aleady had a mature game since 01 as far post game, footwork and jumper, that's why it's difficult to tell with him.. and again, athletic peak ended after 03 and fluctuated after. people say MJ's peak might be 92 because his game matured more visibly since the 80's, and kobe studied his whole career ofcourse. It's not because MJ had his "peak" in the middle of his career that kobe had it too.

I'm going to let this go

Sorry for quoting myself but i think this highlights maybe why he was the most skilled ever.. it became strictly fine tuning since 01 because he basically had it all by then.
What a player. RIP

[warriorfan]

Kobe had goat jumpshooting skill based on the sheer variety of his jumpshooting, and his ability to make contested shots.

Consequently, he had the 2nd best jumpshooting season ever based on volume coupled with effective FG% - in 06', he made over 700 jumpers - that's 250 more than Lebron and Curry's career high volume and at efficiency that would rank 3rd in Lebron's career (46% eFG)

There's no defense for a player making contested shots, so they command a double team.. Every game Kobe would get hot and cause a timeout for adjustments.. His quick-hitter ability kept the defense on their toes and always adjusting, so his style wore teams down thus reducing their freshness on offense (aka won the attrition battle)... Otoh, we know that coaches prefer to defend Lebron's weak-shooting, long dribbling rather than double-team and face ball movement.. his long-dribbe, weak shooting style doesn't shift defenses/wear down teams like the ball movement he faces at the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off.
.

Interesting. Well said.

[bizil]

I would say skill for skill on both sides of the rock, peak Kobe was the MOST SKILLED player ever. I'm talking scoring skillset, handles, defense, and passing as a package. He added some wrinkles to that MJ blueprint he based his game on heavily. In terms of his overall peak, I would put it in the top 10 of all time:

MJ
Wilt
Bron
Kareem
Kobe
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Hakeem

These are my top 9 (in no order) hands down. For that 10th spot,I think Big O, Duncan, KD, and Moses could all have a case. Kobe is in such a unique spot due to the MJ comparison. No other great athletes were SO SIMILAR in any other sport. And they are from different eras on top of it. Not his fault, it's just was destined to be. To be SO SIMILAR to the GOAT was a gift and curse. Because ON PAPER, Kobe's resume is Mt. Rushmore caliber GOAT wise. BUT on the flip side, Kobe didn't revolutionize his position the way MJ, Bron, Magic, or Bird did on the perimeter. So that in my opinion is used as a tiebreaker when compared to the other top 10 GOATs. But on a peak-prime level in general, being the most SKILLED player of all time is a hell of a distinction to have.

[red1]

Kobe had goat jumpshooting skill based on the sheer variety of his jumpshooting, and his ability to make contested shots.

Consequently, he had the 2nd best jumpshooting season ever based on volume coupled with effective FG% - in 06', he made over 700 jumpers - that's 250 more than Lebron and Curry's career high volume and at efficiency that would rank 3rd in Lebron's career (46% eFG)

There's no defense for a player making contested shots, so they command a double team.. Every game Kobe would get hot and cause a timeout for adjustments.. His quick-hitter ability kept the defense on their toes and always adjusting, so his style wore teams down thus reducing their freshness on offense (aka won the attrition battle)... Otoh, we know that coaches prefer to defend Lebron's weak-shooting, long dribbling rather than double-team and face ball movement.. his long-dribbe, weak shooting style doesn't shift defenses/wear down teams like the ball movement he faces at the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off.
.

this guy cant even help himself :roll:


dude why are you still plugging your balldominance theory? bronball has been proven to win championships. I thought you said it couldnt win?


didnt you have essays on the subject on why it couldnt work? why'd it work?

[3ball]

this guy cant even help himself :roll:


dude why are you still plugging your balldominance theory? bronball has been proven to win championships. I thought you said it couldnt win?
his ball-dominance only won because he got 8 extra chances to win Finals by forming a strong team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning (aka Dwight, AI, Kidd, etc)

[red1]

his ball-dominance only won because he got 8 extra chances to win Finals by forming a strong team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning

you keep repeating this though. thats not what Im asking. I'm asking WHY did he win? was the fact that he was the best player on the court during those series a factor at all?


why'd he lead the team in scoring those years? why did the team win the championship in 2012 and 2013 and 2016 if bronball is such a detriment? such a detriment that it reduced antawn jamison in 2010 from a star to a nonstar?

[3ball]

you keep repeating this though. thats not what Im asking. I'm asking WHY did he win? was the fact that he was the best player on the court during those series a factor at all?


why'd he lead the team in scoring those years? why did the team win the championship in 2012 and 2013 and 2016 if bronball is such a detriment? such a detriment that it reduced antawn jamison in 2010 from a star to a nonstar?
Why did lebron win?

Because he teamed up with Bird, or this era's equivalent (top 3 player)

It's impossible to lose with a top 3 player at 2nd option.. only lebron had that.. only lebron gets guys that are normally #1 options to be his 2nd options

The only exception is when KD had curry be his #2.. but even then, lebron's #2 destroyed him

And even though he guaranteed victory by teaming up with a top 3 player, he still mostly lost, which is why he gets knocked, aka 3/9

[red1]

Lebron had the
Why did lebron win?

Because he teamed up with Bird, or this era's equivalent (top 3 player)

It's impossible to lose with a top 3 player at 2nd option.. only lebron had that.. only lebron gets guys that are normally #1 options to be his 2nd options

weak. that answer is unacceptable.


the correct answer is that he won because he was the best player in the series each of those years. also had a great playoff run each year.


"buh buh kyrie" is very very weak.


and you were wrong, your theories all sucked. based on conjecture: "hurr durr lebron lost with a 66 win team in 2009 so his style is suboptimal doesnt wear teams down here's the proof look at pippen's stats"


wrong wrong wrong. you didn't get what you want.


but that's ok. you'll be alright.

[warriorfan]

06 Kobe shot well in that Game 7, he had 23 points on 8/13 shooting in the first half, but they were still down 15 points so he changed his strategy & it didn't pay off because they still couldn't stop the Suns defensively & his teammates couldn't make shots in that 2nd half.

As far as best version goes, it would be 08-10 Kobe. He still had the same ability, but was a far more willing team player and knew how to pick his spots better.

Agreed on 08 - 10 being his peak

[Axe]

Agreed on 08 - 10 being his peak
Just because he had two fmvps during those years?