Bill Laimbeer: LeBron is the GOAT over MJ and is better at involving teammates to win

[LAmbruh]

Once again, another 80's-90's player who competed against MJ dropping hard anecdotal facts :applause:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHliam4z1rY



https://media.giphy.com/media/3ofSBs4Q1f8Q4aRFkc/giphy.gif

[tpols]

and he says "MJ was a one man band, all you have to do is send 3 guys at him" :roll:

3ball gonna have a field day with this.

They TRIPLE teamed jordan.

While Lebron gets sagged off in single coverage...

smh. :facepalm

[Docs Orders]

:lebronamazed:


WE


WIN


AGAIN


https://media.giphy.com/media/5OWLUbuMq4YXEl2ECg/giphy.gif

[Docs Orders]

They TRIPLE teamed jordan.

While Lebron gets sagged off in single coverage...




Easy to trap and force MJ into turnovers/bad shots knowing he doesn't pass and notorious ball hog


Can't do that with Lebron, send two guys it's an laser precision pass to the cutter for a high efficient bucket :applause:

[red1]

the bad boys are all mj haters. john salley says pippen is better than jordan. :roll:



to be fair salley admit that he is a hater but its still hilarious. :oldlol:

[LAmbruh]

Easy to trap and force MJ into turnovers/bad shots knowing he doesn't pass and notorious ball hog


Can't do that with Lebron, send two guys it's an laser precision pass to the cutter for a high efficient bucket :applause:

bingo


same with Curry, easy to trap his ass and get physical knowing he'll make sloppy plays and can't see over defenders

[Axe]

Lmao those bad boy pistons aren't going to appreciate mj of course, because obviously he was responsible for not letting them achieve a three-peat. :oldlol:

It feels like you have tremendously low joy levels whenever you enjoy hearing someone take another player over mj as goat when it's an opinion.

[tpols]

Just watched the whole video...

at 2:30 Lambier elaborates on reasons why he thinks Lebron is the GOAT.

"Because he's 6'8, 285 (what?), and runs like the wind, and knew how to involve his teammates from day 1"

For all Lebron's "out of the gate team work" was better... what does he have to show for it? Losing in the playoffs with 66 win teams?

He only won when he stacked the deck and even then it was by the skin of his teeth. His teams were NEVER dynasties. And he had to keep hoppin'.

Bill's analysis is a joke.

[Fireball1]

LeBron never gets double teamed and for good reason. It´s not because he is ball dominant or a poor shooter. He is an extremely good passer. One mistake and LeBron can make you pay for double-teaming him. Here´s a good video on LeBron´s court vision. It is always better to let LeBron to get his rather than double-teaming him. A few years back, the Hawks tried to double team LeBron and the result? The Hawks got flamed by raining 3s.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9UEAbEF1co

[Stanley Kobrick]

LeBron never gets double teamed and for good reason. It´s not because he is ball dominant or a poor shooter. He is an extremely good passer. One mistake and LeBron can make you pay for double-teaming him. Here´s a good video on LeBron´s court vision. It is always better to let LeBron to get his rather than double-teaming him. A few years back, the Hawks tried to double team LeBRon and the result? The Hawks got flamed by raining 3s.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9UEAbEF1co
High IQ post. welcome to the forum

[AlternativeAcc.]

The guys who demolished Jordan with ease know he was just a fairly average superstar without Pippen/stacked casts and insanely weak competition

doesn't take a rocket scientist to know this

When Trae Young drops 50 nobody bats an eye because he's on a shitty losing team. But Jordan gets praised for it.

[LAmbruh]

:rant:cry:


:rant:cry:.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Ri7tAKABuUgkdwA2fr/giphy.gif

[red1]

Just watched the whole video...

at 2:30 Lambier elaborates on reasons why he thinks Lebron is the GOAT.

"Because he's 6'8, 285 (what?), and runs like the wind, and knew how to involve his teammates from day 1"

For all Lebron's "out of the gate team work" was better... what does he have to show for it? Losing in the playoffs with 66 win teams?

He only won when he stacked the deck and even then it was by the skin of his teeth. His teams were NEVER dynasties. And he had to keep hoppin'.

Bill's analysis is a joke.

dont go all 3ball on us - your IQ is already in shaky standing after you told us curry was the best player in the NBA :oldlol:

[Stanley Kobrick]

Hello. I am a RealGM poster. I mainly post there. I just post here on my free time lol.
I also am a RealGM and /r/NBA poster :cheers:

[Fireball1]

I also am a RealGM and /r/NBA poster :cheers: :cheers: Cool!

[Manny98]

The List continues to grow

https://i.postimg.cc/Ghgx1Hvz/7f7.jpg

[Axe]

LeBron never gets double teamed and for good reason. It´s not because he is ball dominant or a poor shooter. He is an extremely good passer. One mistake and LeBron can make you pay for double-teaming him. Here´s a good video on LeBron´s court vision. It is always better to let LeBron to get his rather than double-teaming him. A few years back, the Hawks tried to double team LeBron and the result? The Hawks got flamed by raining 3s.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9UEAbEF1co
Great iq on the court but i seriously doubt if it's enough to make him win more in the finals, given his last two finals appearances. Also, it'd be better if he can elevate his teammates while playing because nothing will happen if he doesn't.

[tpols]

dont go all 3ball on us - your IQ is already in shaky standing after you told us curry was the best player in the NBA :oldlol:

im just saying bro....

Lambiers main justification was "team first out of the gate" ... when Lebron's biggest known fault is his lack of meshing with dwayne wade, chris bosh, and kevin love.

What does that say?

MJ won 6 rings with scottie pippen.

Won so much he got bored, tried a new sport, came back.. did it again.

[Axe]

im just saying bro....

Lambiers main justification was "team first out of the gate" ... when Lebron's biggest known fault is his lack of meshing with dwayne wade, chris bosh, and kevin love.

What does that say?

MJ won 6 rings with scottie pippen.

Won so much he got bored, came back.. did it again.
Brace yourself.

'No pip, no chip' comments are coming.

[Fireball1]

Great iq on the court but i seriously doubt if it's enough to make him win more in the finals, given his last two finals appearances. Also, it'd be better if he can elevate his teammates while playing because nothing will happen if he doesn't. So his offensive style is LeBron's fault for losing? No way. He only lost because LeBron had the misfortune to go up against those stacked GSW teams. In 2017 he had a small chance but he allowed KD to go off (35 points) and Curry and Klay was on fire.

In 2018 he had no chance of winning the NBA Finals with that cast of his.

[tpols]

Brace yourself.

'No pip, no chip' comments are coming.


it's hilarious because he made due with just one great guy. Didnt have to hop between 5+ HOF talents to win half the rings.

the teamwork stuff... MJ's championship teams all had better teamwork evidenced by team assists and general viewership of ball movement.

Bill Said he hates todays game because its 1v1 or 2v2, where as his era played 5v5... Lebron is the EPITOME of 2v2 PnR mismatch spamming w/ 3 guys spotting up.

[Axe]

So his offensive style is LeBron's fault for losing? No way. He only lost because LeBron had the misfortune to go up against those stacked GSW teams. In 2017 he had a small chance but he allowed KD to go off (35 points) and Curry and Klay was on fire.

In 2018 he had no chance of winning the NBA Finals with that cast of his.
I never said it was his fault. But that cast probably and also maybe the cavs had an inferior coach during those times.

[Fireball1]

I never said it was his fault. But that cast probably and also maybe the cavs had an inferior coach during those times. Exactly.

[LAmbruh]

get on your hazmat suits bois



Tslow's blood pressure is breaching full nuclear :oldlol:

[Axe]

Exactly.
Also, they could have played better defense when it completely mattered the most.

[AlternativeAcc.]

get on your hazmat suits bois



Tslow's blood pressure is breaching full nuclear :oldlol:

:roll:

[LAmbruh]

:roll:

poor guy needs to stick to Covid-19 and Sandy Hook hoaxes


talking hoops isn't his niche :lol

[tpols]

get on your hazmat suits bois



Tslow's blood pressure is breaching full nuclear :oldlol:


i'm a mellow guy simon...

i dont think my blood pressure has ever been clocked at over 120.

if anything the satisfaction from disproving your erroneous claims is providing me a calming effect. :D

[Fireball1]

Also, they could have played better defense when it completely mattered the most. The 2017 and 2018 Cavs were severly lacking in defensive presence.

[Axe]

The 2017 and 2018 Cavs were severly lacking in defensive presence.
So true.

[STATUTORY]

ironically this just shows MJ is the true GOAT

Lambeer is still distraught and salty over what MJ did to his dynastic pistons nearly 4 decades later

Lebron has never left that type of scar and trauma on any NBA player, everybody ate good on his reign

[3ball]

So why didn't he have better offenses despite better offensive help?

Bulls had the #14 offense without MJ in 94' but had goat offenses with him.

Specifically, the Bulls have 2 of the top 5 team ortgs ever, and 4 of the top 20 - this is the most top ORtg's ever and MJ did it with sub-par offensive help

[ArbitraryWater]

Lmao those bad boy pistons aren't going to appreciate mj of course, because obviously he was responsible for not letting them achieve a three-peat. :oldlol:

It feels like you have tremendously low joy levels whenever you enjoy hearing someone take another player over mj as goat when it's an opinion.

**** are you talking about?

Pistons beat MJ thrice and lost once without a shot, there is no reason for them to be mad at MJ or do any downplaying... in fact it would be in their best interest to prop up MJ, since they beat him three times, to further credit their own achievement.

Yet with no motive for bad blood, all of Isiah, Laimbeer and Salley have LeBron as GOAT.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Huh? MJ won 6 titles in 11 full, and healthy seasons. LeBron has won 3 (2 fluky) in 16 full, and healthy seasons. Are you serious?!

[ArbitraryWater]

Huh? MJ won 6 titles in 11 full, and healthy seasons. LeBron has won 3 (2 fluky) in 16 full, and healthy seasons. Are you serious?!

MJ stans in a nutshell.

Embarrassing.

MJ vs LBJ has become the new global test of complexity and idiocy.

Lets see who the sheep are and which people can think for themselves.

[3ball]

.
MJ's style proved the most optimal because his triangle exceeded league average ORtg by much more than Kobe/Shaq's triangle despite less offensive help:



Points above league average ORtg:


2000 Lakers... +3.2
2001 Lakers... +5.4
2002 Lakers... +4.9

2008 Lakers... +5.5
2009 Lakers... +4.5
2010 Lakers... +1.2
______________________
Average........ +4.12


1991 Bulls... +6.7
1992 Bulls... +7.3
1993 Bulls... +4.9

1996 Bulls... +7.6
1997 Bulls... +7.7
1998 Bulls... +2.7
______________________
Average..... +6.15


So MJ elevates teams and teammates more than Lebron... It's not remotely close - MJ had far better offenses than Bron despite FAR less offensive help

[Axe]

**** are you talking about?

Pistons beat MJ thrice and lost once without a shot, there is no reason for them to be mad at MJ or do any downplaying... in fact it would be in their best interest to prop up MJ, since they beat him three times, to further credit their own achievement.

Yet with no motive for bad blood, all of Isiah, Laimbeer and Salley have LeBron as GOAT.
*Says this without mentioning that the same pistons team were bitter in the closing seconds of game 4 of the 1991 ecf, when they were swept by the bulls and that most of them left the court without congratulating nor shaking the hands of their opponents.

Ok...

[Stanley Kobrick]

:cheers: Cool!
already banned :(

[red1]

im just saying bro....

Lambiers main justification was "team first out of the gate" ... when Lebron's biggest known fault is his lack of meshing with dwayne wade, chris bosh, and kevin love.

What does that say?

MJ won 6 rings with scottie pippen.

Won so much he got bored, tried a new sport, came back.. did it again.
I was just responding to the 66-win 3ball argument. 3ball intentionally ignores the fact that no other player in NBA history is carrying a cast that bad to 66 wins.

that team was the least talented "contender" I've ever seen. outside of lebron of course.

[Axe]

I was just responding to the 66-win 3ball argument. 3ball intentionally ignores the fact that no other player in NBA history is carrying a cast that bad to 66 wins.

that team was the least talented "contender" I've ever seen. outside of lebron of course.
Was the bulls somewhat the same as this in 2011, albeit somewhat having a better cast with d-rose, who's inferior to lbj, leading the team during that year to a not far-off 62 wins and ecf appearance?

[3ball]

I was just responding to the 66-win 3ball argument. 3ball intentionally ignores the fact that no other player in NBA history is carrying a cast that bad to 66 wins.

that team was the least talented "contender" I've ever seen. outside of lebron of course.
07' Dirk carried a garbage cast to 67 wins in the West

So lebron deserves the same credit Dirk got, aka none.. btw, only curry carries Klay/Dray to 73 wins - lebron wouldn't even win 50 with them (he only won 51 with healthy Kyrie/Love)

And quit acting like his cast is worse than dwight's - it wasn't - he was a colossal favorite a d everyone expected it to be an easy win... Who can lose with a 39 PER? Only LeEmpty Stat... Only LeAAU Brand

[DoctorP]

Laimbeer has nightmares about Jordan to this day. Im sure he has zero agenda.

[LAmbruh]

appreciate the 5*'s btw

[RRR3]

I'm a retarded troll who spams the same bullshit over and over again
Yep

[red1]

07' Dirk carried a garbage cast to 67 wins in the West

So lebron deserves the same credit Dirk got, aka none.. btw, only curry carries Klay/Dray to 73 wins - lebron wouldn't even win 50 with them (he only won 51 with healthy Kyrie/Love)

And quit acting like his cast is worse than dwight's - it wasn't - he was a colossal favorite a d everyone expected it to be an easy win... Who can lose with a 39 PER? Only LeEmpty Stat... Only LeAAU Brand
that's actually fair. I have no problem agreeing with that.


but when you go "HURR DURR mo williams superior firepower greater talent than scottie pippen more talented roster than the championship bulls horace grant was a complete scrub varejao was better HURR"


thats where you lose me.

[red1]

Was the bulls somewhat the same as this in 2011, albeit somewhat having a better cast with d-rose, who's inferior to lbj, leading the team during that year to a not far-off 62 wins and ecf appearance?

thats absolutely fair too. rose and those bulls definitely overachieved.

[RRR3]

thats absolutely fair too. rose and those bulls definitely overachieved.
Rose had 3 all-stars on his team lmao.

[Axe]

Rose had 3 all-stars on his team lmao.
Yeah but you can say they're trash when they are playing without rose, as evidenced in the 2012 playoffs.

[Turbo Slayer]

07' Dirk carried a garbage cast to 67 wins in the West

So lebron deserves the same credit Dirk got, aka none.. btw, only curry carries Klay/Dray to 73 wins - lebron wouldn't even win 50 with them (he only won 51 with healthy Kyrie/Love)

And quit acting like his cast is worse than dwight's - it wasn't - he was a colossal favorite a d everyone expected it to be an easy win... Who can lose with a 39 PER? Only LeEmpty Stat... Only LeAAU Brand
(he only won 51 with healthy Kyrie/Love)
Incorrect. Kyrie suffered a hamstring injury and Love missed a month due to knee surgery. Also, JR Smith missed 3 months too. So your point fails. Stop lying to posters to prove your point. It isnt needed.

[RRR3]

Yeah but you can say they're trash when they are playing without rose, as evidenced in the 2012 playoffs.
IDK they were able to upset the Nets without him in 2013, an Boozer had definitely declined by then.

[FromDowntown]

Easy to trap and force MJ into turnovers/bad shots knowing he doesn't pass and notorious ball hog


Can't do that with Lebron, send two guys it's an laser precision pass to the cutter for a high efficient bucket :applause:


bingo

bad passers get doubled

how is this not common knowledge

cant double team an elite level passer like bron...mike cant pass, easy to double him he wont pass because of low IQ and he cant pass well anyway so no risk to double team him.

bad passers = no risk in double teaming them
elite passers = risk in double teaming them

[3ball]

Incorrect. Kyrie suffered a hamstring injury and Love missed a month due to knee surgery. Also, JR Smith missed 3 months too. So your point fails. Stop lying to posters to prove your point. It isnt needed.
Kyrie played 72 games and Love played 60 - that should be enough to win 60+ like 98' MJ when Pippen missed 35 games

Lebron failed to win more than 57 in any season with Kyrie/Love, while Kawhi and Curry flirt with 70 wins with underdog casts (Cavs were initially favored in 15' and statisticians considered them a goat assemblage of talent)

[Axe]

Kyrie played 72 games and Love played 60 - that should be enough to win 60+ like 98' MJ when Pippen missed 35 games

Lebron failed to win more than 57 in any season with Kyrie/Love, while Kawhi and Curry flirt with 70 wins with underdog casts (Cavs were initially favored in 15' and statisticians considered them a goat assemblage of talent)
Kawhi played for gs? 🤔

[3ball]

Kawhi played for gs? ��
Spurs nearly won 70 - so Kawhi and Curry flirted with 70 wins while bron-ball capped the Cavs at 57...

[Cyrus334]

He's said this before if I'm not mistaken.

And just like back then, nobody should care or take his opinion seriously.

Excluding Rodman, who played with Jordan after leaving Detroit, everyone else on the Pistons hate Jordan with a burning passion after losing to the Bulls and effectively having they're shot at a 3 peat destroyed. They were such bad losers about it that they walked off the court like bitches and have since always taken every opportunity to throw shots at Jordan whenever they can and the best way they do that is praising the one dude that every media outlet proclaims is Jordan's only rival in the GOAT debate.

It's funny too because you'd think a team that knocked Jordan out of the playoffs three straight years would have more dignity and class than that.

[3ball]

I'd still like to know how his comments hold any water when Jordan led the Bulls to goat offenses with weak offensive help compared to many other teams (#2, #4 and #6 team ortgs all-time)

His triangles achieved a greater margin above the league average than Shaq or Kobe's triangle despite having less offensive help.. his offenses destroy lebron's and even Nash's...

In addition to goat offenses with weak help, MJ is the only guy that had to develop single digit rookies to
all-star caliber to win (pip, grant, bj).. He elevated teammates and teams more than anyone ever

[FromDowntown]

He's said this before if I'm not mistaken.

And just like back then, nobody should care or take his opinion seriously.

Excluding Rodman, who played with Jordan after leaving Detroit, everyone else on the Pistons hate Jordan with a burning passion after losing to the Bulls and effectively having they're shot at a 3 peat destroyed. They were such bad losers about it that they walked off the court like bitches and have since always taken every opportunity to throw shots at Jordan whenever they can and the best way they do that is praising the one dude that every media outlet proclaims is Jordan's only rival in the GOAT debate.

It's funny too because you'd think a team that knocked Jordan out of the playoffs three straight years would have more dignity and class than that.

:lol
Why would the Pistons hate Jordan? They eliminated him in the playoffs three straight years. Look it up

88, 89, 90

That would be like LeBron hating DeMar Derozan.

[3ball]

bingo

bad passers get doubled

how is this not common knowledge

cant double team an elite level passer like bron...mike cant pass, easy to double him he wont pass because of low IQ and he cant pass well anyway so no risk to double team him.

bad passers = no risk in double teaming them
elite passers = risk in double teaming them

Double teams create a 4-on-3 off the ball" - Lebron James

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZOzilY8o14&t=01m15s

Accordingly, it's a false narrative that teams don't double Lebron because he's such a good passer, since all double teams create a 4-on-3 that spurs ball movement, as Lebron said himself above

4-on-3's are bad for any defense, not just when Lebron gets doubled.

So when Stan Van Gundy says they didn't double Lebron, it's a legit knock - lebron's 38/8/8 certainly kept the Cavs competitive, but another player's 38/8/8 would've come with double-teams, thus freeing up teammates so they perform better... It's a knock that a lebron iso isn't feared more than ball movement.. weak shooting and long dribble will do that

[Da_Realist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjiN6CfDf7Y

These two go way back

[Axe]

:lol
Why would the Pistons hate Jordan? They eliminated him in the playoffs three straight years. Look it up

88, 89, 90

That would be like LeBron hating DeMar Derozan.
The implementation of the flagrant foul became the end of era for their dirty dominance.

[brownmamba00]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjiN6CfDf7Y

These two go way back

Laimbeer went IN gawddamm

[Overdrive]

**** are you talking about?

Pistons beat MJ thrice and lost once without a shot, there is no reason for them to be mad at MJ or do any downplaying... in fact it would be in their best interest to prop up MJ, since they beat him three times, to further credit their own achievement.

Yet with no motive for bad blood, all of Isiah, Laimbeer and Salley have LeBron as GOAT.


MJ stans in a nutshell.

Embarrassing.

MJ vs LBJ has become the new global test of complexity and idiocy.

Lets see who the sheep are and which people can think for themselves.

The Pistons feuded with Jordan the very moment he got to the NBA. He was frozen out of the all star game simply for being drafted by Isiah's home town team. Thomas was a bitter guy and still is holding petty grudges over stuff like that. Later Jordan was the main instigator for omitting him from the Dream Team.

You should read up on that matter. The Pistons hated Jordan and vice versa. I know unimaginable in this feel good lovey dovey era.

Regarding the 2nd quote: For most people Jordan is the better player not based on rings, but capability, style of play etc. Being on ish would make you believe that Lebron has a shot, because some trolls wanna make everyone believe he's the GOAT or BOAT and any differing opinion is insane. You come here to validate your own. But saying if you don't share my opinion you're stupid, you're a sheep is a "Totschlagargument" - sorry english lacks a word for that, but you understand it anyway.

[Axe]

Let me also add that Jordan's rise to fame that made him popular in the city of chicago just added more wood to the fire of isiah's intense dislike towards him, as thomas himself was a chicago native and felt like mj was stealing the beautiful city from him. In other words, he became jealous. So what did you expect when the tables were turned and the pistons were the ones finally suffering from a sweep.

[nayte]

Using player quotes never goes well for all involved . Can’t believe people still do that

[Manny98]

The Pistons feuded with Jordan the very moment he got to the NBA. He was frozen out of the all star game simply for being drafted by Isiah's home town team. Thomas was a bitter guy and still is holding petty grudges over stuff like that. Later Jordan was the main instigator for omitting him from the Dream Team.

You should read up on that matter. The Pistons hated Jordan and vice versa. I know unimaginable in this feel good lovey dovey era.

Regarding the 2nd quote: For most people Jordan is the better player not based on rings, but capability, style of play etc. Being on ish would make you believe that Lebron has a shot, because some trolls wanna make everyone believe he's the GOAT or BOAT and any differing opinion is insane. You come here to validate your own. But saying if you don't share my opinion you're stupid, you're a sheep is a "Totschlagargument" - sorry english lacks a word for that, but you understand it anyway.

Is it so hard to get that some people just think that LeBron is a better player than Jordan?

It has nothing to do with Laimbeer "hating" Jordan he just thinks that LeBron is better stop being so buthurt

[86Celtics]

Once again, another 80's-90's player who competed against MJ dropping hard anecdotal facts :applause:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHliam4z1rY



https://media.giphy.com/media/3ofSBs4Q1f8Q4aRFkc/giphy.gif

According to your own moronic trolling, Jordan faced plumbers and car mechanics. So why should Laimbeer's opinion matter in any meaninful way?

[LostCause]

MJ stans in a nutshell.

Embarrassing.

MJ vs LBJ has become the new global test of complexity and idiocy.

Lets see who the sheep are and which people can think for themselves.

So you’re an actual moron?

I mean on this topic specifically, there’s nothing but evidence that Laimbeer tears down MJ at every opportunity yet your argument is what. They beat the Bulls a few times so no reason to hate? Must be why they walked off and Laimbeer called him a nobody the next season cuz no hard feelings, right?

Try that “think for yourself “ thing

[nayte]

So you’re an actual moron?

I mean on this topic specifically, there’s nothing but evidence that Laimbeer tears down MJ at every opportunity yet your argument is what. They beat the Bulls a few times so no reason to hate? Must be why they walked off and Laimbeer called him a nobody the next season cuz no hard feelings, right?

Try that “think for yourself “ thing


Yea he is a forsaken moron . Really u should know that by now

[Rysio]

LeBron involving teammates is just turning them in to 3 point shooters which is just a poor basketball strategy.

[Turbo Slayer]

LeBron involving teammates is just turning them in to 3 point shooters which is just a poor basketball strategy. Then explain why the Lakers clinched 1st seed in the West this season if LeBron Ball was sub-optimal???

[Turbo Slayer]

LeBron involving teammates is just turning them in to 3 point shooters which is just a poor basketball strategy. Also the 2020 Lakers have poor 3 point shooting this year they are ranked 22th in the league in terms of the 3 point shot.

[nayte]

Also the 2020 Lakers have poor 3 point shooting this year they are ranked 22th in the league in terms of the 3 point shot.

That doesn't really help imo

[Turbo Slayer]

That doesn't really help imo Yeah their trash 3 point shooting will be iffy in the Playoffs. Teams may want to sag off Kuzma for example... Kuz is a poor 3 point shooter on everywhere except the corners but even if Kuz shooting lights out in the corner that doesnt help the Lakers much.

[nayte]

Yeah their trash 3 point shooting will be iffy in the Playoffs. Teams may want to sag off Kuzma for example... Kuz is a poor 3 point shooter on everywhere except the corners but even if Kuz shooting lights out in the corner that doesnt help the Lakers much.
I won't discount Danny green. They signed him for a reason I think we will see that in the playoffs

[ArbitraryWater]

The Pistons feuded with Jordan the very moment he got to the NBA. He was frozen out of the all star game simply for being drafted by Isiah's home town team. Thomas was a bitter guy and still is holding petty grudges over stuff like that. Later Jordan was the main instigator for omitting him from the Dream Team.

You should read up on that matter. The Pistons hated Jordan and vice versa. I know unimaginable in this feel good lovey dovey era.

Regarding the 2nd quote: For most people Jordan is the better player not based on rings, but capability, style of play etc. Being on ish would make you believe that Lebron has a shot, because some trolls wanna make everyone believe he's the GOAT or BOAT and any differing opinion is insane. You come here to validate your own. But saying if you don't share my opinion you're stupid, you're a sheep is a "Totschlagargument" - sorry english lacks a word for that, but you understand it anyway.

Totschlagargument, yet, you say no one could possibly believe LeBron to be better than Jordan...

Believe me, I know enough about their fierce rivalry and genuine dislike for each other.

But we're over 30 years beyond that now, in almost all sporting rivalries, the guys have grown and mellowed up and look back fondly on the days they spent competing with each other...

and yet in this case, everyone wants to write these opinions off as "oh he just mad"...

Thats laughable.

Its as laughable to me as considering MJ to be better than LeBron after what he has done in 2017 and 2018, toppling MJ thoroughly across ALL elements of the game now, even scoring.

He does everything MJ did only more, and for a much longer period of time as well.

One can't talk himself out of that. Its pretty cut and dry at this point. LeBron is still going on. Adding to it.

[Turbo Slayer]

I won't discount Danny green. They signed him for a reason I think we will see that in the playoffs Thats why the Lakers signed Danny Green. They specifically signed him b/c he has veteran exp and most importantly he has 3 point shooting in him which the Lakers were lacking in 2019.

Danny Green also set a Finals record in 3 pointers made in 2013 I think...?? So he is a very valuable player. Opposing players cant sag off him which will free up the spacing a little bit more for AD and LeBRon etc...

[nayte]

Thats why the Lakers signed Danny Green. They specifically signed b/c he has veteran exp and most importantly he has 3 point shooting in him which the Lakers were lacking in 2019.

Danny Green also set a Finals record in 3 pointers made in 2013 I think...?? So he is a very valuable player. Opposing players cant sag off him which will free up the spacing a little bit more.

We shall see on the finals of it ever happens .we seem to agree on that one

[Turbo Slayer]

We shall see on the finals of it ever happens .we seem to agree on that one
Yep. I hope Danny Green will make teams pay for not paying attention to him. At least I hope! Lol.

[nayte]

Yep. I hope Danny Green will make teams pay for not paying attention to him. At least I hope! Lol.

Haha I don't I want giannis to win.lol.

[Turbo Slayer]

Haha I don't I want giannis to win.lol. We see both ways lol.

Giannis may be the next ¨guy¨ up for the upcoming years. Giannis will replace LeBron as the ¨guy¨ tbh. I can see a hypothetical Finals matchup between LeBRon and Giannis this year or next year. I can see LeBron losing to Giannis and Giannis will be the torch bearer for the 2020´s. Giannis will dominate the 2020s in the headlines.

[FireDavidKahn]

Pistons destroyed the Bulls until they started to need walkers.

[Turbo Slayer]

Pistons destroyed the Bulls until they started to need walkers. Why are you still trolling for 9 years (3200 days appox!!!)? Just stop already... :facepalm

[Axe]

Why are you still trolling for 9 years (3200 days appox!!!)? Just stop already... :facepalm
Never say die. 😂

[Turbo Slayer]

Never say die. �� :oldlol:

[FireDavidKahn]

Why are you still trolling for 9 years (3200 days appox!!!)? Just stop already... :facepalm

LOL. I've only turned into a troll the past few years...Certainly not 9 years.

[nayte]

LOL. I've only turned into a troll the past few years...Certainly not 9 years.
Bullshit. U been like that for ages

[SamuraiSWISH]

We see both ways lol.

Giannis may be the next ¨guy¨ up for the upcoming years. Giannis will replace LeBron as the ¨guy¨ tbh. I can see a hypothetical Finals matchup between LeBRon and Giannis this year or next year. I can see LeBron losing to Giannis and Giannis will be the torch bearer for the 2020´s. Giannis will dominate the 2020s in the headlines.
This year? NBA isn’t coming back anytime soon

[FireDavidKahn]

Bullshit. U been like that for ages

I sure you remember the first few years (on this account,had one all the way back to like 2007!) of how I posted.

[FireDavidKahn]

And here's the thing, I am very self aware and can even admit that at this point I am a troll. Really turned up it a notch when the NBA was canceled due to sheer boredom but my transformation into an established troll happened when LeBron came back home.

Wish I still had my old account but I got banned in 2011 because I was telling people about some "ad" thing (can't actually say the word as it gets censored but I'm sure you can figure it out). I was rightfully banned. I begged forgiveness and made the argument that 9 years was enough punishment for that one slip up (never had any other incidents at that point) and my account was unlocked...only problem is that my old account was using an email that I don't even remember anymore so that put the kibosh on that.

LOL. So please dont act like I've been a troll from day one.

[nayte]

I sure you remember the first few years (on this account,had one all the way back to like 2007!) of how I posted.

Yah true I remember how u used to post .My apologies

[SamuraiSWISH]

And here's the thing, I am very self aware and can even admit that at this point I am a troll. Really turned up it a notch when the NBA was canceled due to sheer boredom but my transformation into an established troll happened when LeBron came back home.

Wish I still had my old account but I got banned in 2011 because I was telling people about some "ad" thing (can't actually say the word as it gets censored but I'm sure you can figure it out). I was rightfully banned. I begged forgiveness and made the argument that 9 years was enough punishment for that one slip up (never had any other incidents at that point) and my account was unlocked...only problem is that my old account was using an email that I don't even remember anymore so that put the kibosh on that.

LOL. So please dont act like I've been a troll from day one.
No one cares

[red1]

really big fan of the bad boy pistons. I think I might cop that isiah thomas or laimbeer jersey



huge fan of the way laimbeer used to put jordan on his ass.

[Hey Yo]

and he says "MJ was a one man band, all you have to do is send 3 guys at him" :roll:

3ball gonna have a field day with this.

They TRIPLE teamed jordan.

While Lebron gets sagged off in single coverage...

smh. :facepalm
Sending 3 guys "when MJ makes his move to the basket", just like what Golden St. did to LeBron in the 2015 Finals. Once James made his move to the basket, the defense collapsed on him and we saw 2 guys getting to the paint (plus Iggy trying to stop James from getting to the paint).

It's quite normal for defenses to do this against various players.

[Hey Yo]

Huh? MJ won 6 titles in 11 full, and healthy seasons. LeBron has won 3 (2 fluky) in 16 full, and healthy seasons. Are you serious?!
And needed a 2yr rest inbetween to achieve that.

[3ball]

Sending 3 guys "when MJ makes his move to the basket", just like what Golden St. did to LeBron in the 2015 Finals. Once James made his move to the basket, the defense collapsed on him and we saw 2 guys getting to the paint (plus Iggy trying to stop James from getting to the paint).

It's quite normal for defenses to do this against various players.
No, MJ was overtly doubled before he started driving

During the Bulls-Pistons series, the Pistons' 4th quarter policy was to double-team MJ every single time he touched the ball.. Here's an examle from Game 6 of 1989 ECF, starting at the 9 minute mark (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W_0I82B18&t=1h21m11s) - MJ is double-teamed 10 of 13 times he touched the ball to finish out the game.. The 3 times he didn't get doubled were because he shot the ball immediately - here's all 10 double-teams shown in gifs:


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88



Here's a video of MJ against Atlanta - he's double-teamed 12 of 13 possessions from the 6:40 mark to the 8:40 mark - the consecutive double-teams are shown in rapid succession:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLDGm8pV6uU&t=6m40s



The youtube channel "Nobody Touches Jordan" did a video of Payton guarding MJ in Game 4 of 1996 Finals (link here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgFWyLRNsGk)) - MJ was doubled exactly 10 of the 20 times he caught the ball with Payton guarding - all 10 double-teams are shown if gifs here:


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11792377&postcount=161



Here's the New York Times on Jordan, 1987:


"Last season, Jordan had to overcome the harrassment of zone traps and double-triple teaming to average 37.1 points a game."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s9_GKFNL9E&t=0m49s[/INDENT


By comparison, Lebron was doubled-teamed a TOTAL of 18 times in the entire Finals... So in comparison to MJ getting double-teamed 12 times in a single quarter, Lebron was doubled 3 times per game.

[I]"Curry’s ability to guard one-on-one allowed the Warriors’ wing defenders to double-team LeBron James effectively. When James was double-teamed, the Cavaliers scored 5 points on 2-of-18 shooting (11 percent)".

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106718/iguodala-heads-all-playoff-defensive-team
.[/QUOTE]

[Hey Yo]

The implementation of the flagrant foul became the end of era for their dirty dominance.
Direct result of MJ crying to Daddy Stern about hard fouls.

[3ball]

Direct result of MJ crying to Daddy Stern about hard fouls.
Save it bruh

You just said that MJ was only doubled on the drive which is blatantly false and proven wrong in gifs in the last post.

Lebron doesn't command doubles, whereas MJ was the most doubled player ever

[Hey Yo]

Save it bruh

You just said that MJ was only doubled on the drive which is blatantly false and proven wrong in gifs in the last post.

Lebron doesn't command doubles, whereas MJ was the most doubled player ever
He was met in the paint / at the rim with his original defender and 2 guys collapsing or 2 defenders and 1 guy collapsing.

I never said he wasn't ever doubled outside of driving to the basket. He certainly wasn't tripled teamed before driving like the 2nd post of the thread suggests.

[3ball]

He was met in the paint / at the rim with his original defender and 2 guys collapsing or 2 defenders and 1 guy collapsing.

I never said he wasn't ever doubled outside of driving to the basket. He certainly wasn't tripled teamed before driving like the 2nd post of the thread suggests.
Jordan is the kind of player you had to double, whereas teams beat lebron without doubling

[SamuraiSWISH]

And needed a 2yr rest inbetween to achieve that.
Rest?! Lol

Well winning 3 in a row takes a lot of you ... I know your favorite player wouldn’t know anything about that, let alone doing it twice.

But NOT playing basketball ... is worse for you than continuing to do so.

And I didn’t know playing professional baseball was cryo chamber hibernation Cap America / Demolition Man out of time type “rest”

:oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

Jordan is the kind of player you had to double, whereas teams beat lebron without doubling
Except for game 5 in the 1989 ECF when he was reluctant to shoot.

[warriorfan]

Giving the ball to prime Wade/Irving and letting them iso.

Getting them teammates involved.

[Hey Yo]

Rest?! Lol

Well winning 3 in a row takes a lot of you ... I know your favorite player wouldn’t know anything about that, let alone doing it twice.

But NOT playing basketball ... is worse for you than continuing to do so.

And I didn’t know playing professional baseball was cryo chamber hibernation Cap America / Demolition Man out of time type “rest”

:oldlol:
Standing in the outfield with your thumb up your ass is more grueling than playing a full NBA season? Sitting on your ass waiting to bat or after striking out is more grueling than playing a full NBA season?

Your boy was in his prime and needed to rest. There's no denying those facts.

[3ball]

Except for game 5 in the 1989 ECF when he was reluctant to shoot.

He got overwhelmed, which is typical of massive underdogs...

Otoh, lebron lost a 2-1 lead as the favorite... Twice...

One of the times he quit like a little boy because he found out his mommy was having sex with a man.. so don't compare this lame to the guy you're gonna see on the 19th

[red1]

He got overwhelmed, which is typical of massive underdogs...

Otoh, lebron lost a 2-1 lead as the favorite... Twice...

One of the times he quit like a little boy because he found out his mommy was having sex with a man.. so don't compare this lame to the guy you're gonna see on the 19th

lebron may have quit on the celtics and against the mavs but he definitely beat your scrawny ass.


you said he wouldnt retire top-20. fake superstar.


in reality the reason you are so triggered to this day having started 1,000+ threads the last decade is because you KNOW he's the only real threat the nba ever had to compete for that GOAT crown.


even though it won't happen and mike's spot is safe and sound you're still threatened so you can't even help yourself. don't worry bro - when it's all said and done all-time rankings will be

1. mike
2. lebron


and its gonna happen my boy. 2nd best player of all-time (jumpshot wasnt good enough to be number 1 - came close though).


I need you on this board so I can get those final bragging rights over you. the game is more fun when you're invested in the trash-talk and I'm gonna troll the **** out of you.

[Hey Yo]

He got overwhelmed, which is typical of massive underdogs...

Otoh, lebron lost a 2-1 lead as the favorite... Twice...

One of the times he quit like a little boy because he found out his mommy was having sex with a man.. so don't compare this lame to the guy you're gonna see on the 19th
Overwhelmed by what? The series was tied at 2 and they won game 1 @ Detroit so I'm sure that gave them a ton of confidence. It's as if he threw the game by purposely not shooting the ball after avg. like 25FGA in the first 4gms.

[3ball]

Overwhelmed by what? The series was tied at 2 and they won game 1 @ Detroit so I'm sure that gave them a ton of confidence. It's as if he threw the game by purposely not shooting the ball after avg. like 25FGA in the first 4gms.
Overwhelmed by a dynasty, while he had no help - it was like lebron in 2015, except worse

So both MJ/lebron lost 2-1 leads as underdogs, but only lebron did it as a favorite

[Hey Yo]

Overwhelmed by a dynasty, while he had no help - it was like lebron in 2015, except worse

So both MJ/lebron lost 2-1 leads as underdogs, but only lebron did it as a favorite
:lol: ............. You're so full of shit.

If he had no help, then how did the "huge underdogs" take the series to 6gms? How were they only down by 1pt after 3 quarters in game 5 with MJ trying to throw the game?

[3ball]

:lol: ............. You're so full of shit.

If he had no help, then how did the "huge underdogs" take the series to 6gms? How were they only down by 1pt after 3 quarters in game 5 with MJ trying to throw the game?
89' MJ had a worse roster than any of lebron's teams from 04-20'

A zero accolade cast....

Otoh, 05-10' Lebron played with 3 all-stars, 2 all defenders, the COY, and top team defenses - that's why he won more games despite much less personal stats

[Hey Yo]

That doesn't answer my questions, Chico.

Quit ducking

[red1]

89' MJ had a worse roster than any of lebron's teams from 04-20'

A zero accolade cast....

Otoh, 05-10' Lebron played with 3 all-stars, 2 all defenders, the COY, and top team defenses - that's why he won more games despite much less personal stats

:roll:


those cavs were actually garbage. definitely not a 50+ win team like pippen's bulls.


you try to claim pippen is a fake allstar - mo williams was ACTUALLY an injury replacement allstar that only got in that one year because jameer nelson was injured and because lebron carried them to so many wins. :oldlol:

[red1]

this guy actually brags about mike brown's coaching - dude mj is ringless without pippen and phil jackson.


thats a fact.

[3ball]

this guy actually brags about mike brown's coaching - dude mj is ringless without pippen and phil jackson.


thats a fact.
Phil is ringless without MJ or his clone

MJ was the goat candidate when he won in 91', while Phil was the first-time, nobody coach, just like Mike Brown in 07'.

The difference is that MJ made Phil by averaging 36/7/8 and winning the 91-93' Finals, while Lebron averaged 22 on 36% to lose in 07' and from 06-10'

[LostCause]

Totschlagargument, yet, you say no one could possibly believe LeBron to be better than Jordan...

Believe me, I know enough about their fierce rivalry and genuine dislike for each other.

But we're over 30 years beyond that now, in almost all sporting rivalries, the guys have grown and mellowed up and look back fondly on the days they spent competing with each other...

and yet in this case, everyone wants to write these opinions off as "oh he just mad"...

Thats laughable.

Its as laughable to me as considering MJ to be better than LeBron after what he has done in 2017 and 2018, toppling MJ thoroughly across ALL elements of the game now, even scoring.

He does everything MJ did only more, and for a much longer period of time as well.

One can't talk himself out of that. Its pretty cut and dry at this point. LeBron is still going on. Adding to it.

Like I said, you're an actual moron

All you're doing is interjecting your own weird beliefs into what's been established by pretty much all parties involved

To quote you again:


Believe me, I know enough about their fierce rivalry and genuine dislike for each other.

But we're over 30 years beyond that now, in almost all sporting rivalries, the guys have grown and mellowed up and look back fondly on the days they spent competing with each other...

and yet in this case, everyone wants to write these opinions off as "oh he just mad"...

Thats laughable.

And yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHQ0kQbkZdg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRQ-clEfbBE

Pippen himself references the same shit you're pretending doesn't exist. Says himself there will always be bad blood, none of this mellow out looking back fondly shit you're talking

So you're just talking out your ass, as usual

[red1]

Phil is ringless without MJ or his clone

MJ was the goat candidate when he won in 91', while Phil was the first-time, nobody coach, just like Mike Brown in 07'.

true.


The difference is that MJ made Phil by averaging 36/7/8 and winning the 91-93' Finals, while Lebron averaged 22 on 36% to lose in 07' and from 06-10'
strongly disagree. pippen made mj.


mike is ringless without the pip. and without the trunk's 50-win team. for all we know he'd keep going 1/9 without pippen.


just facts.

[3ball]

true.


strongly disagree. pippen made mj.


mike is ringless without the pip. and without the trunk's 50-win team. for all we know he'd keep going 1/9 without pippen.


just facts.
1988 1st Round (MJ's first win)

Jordan... 45 ppg
Pippen..... 7 ppg


That doesn't look like Pippen "made" MJ - that's MJ carrying Pippen - the definition of carrying - literally the biggest carry-job ever..

Show me where lebron averaged 38 more than his sidekick... Waiting

[red1]

1988 1st Round (MJ's first win)

Jordan... 45 ppg
Pippen..... 7 ppg


That doesn't look like Pippen "made" MJ... It looks like he's just on for the ride

who cares about that stat when pippen was still a kid and wasn't "the trunk" yet.


that stat is meaningless.


especially when you consider the all important fact that pippen's bulls won 55 games.

[3ball]

who cares about that stat when pippen was still a kid and wasn't "the trunk" yet.


that stat is meaningless.


especially when you consider the all important fact that pippen's bulls won 55 games.
How many wins for Pippen without MJ in 1988?

They needed to develop a 3-peat system to win without MJ.. Everyone knew this - imagine how dumb you look 30 years later trying to change history

Your statements = someone coming along in 2035 and saying Lebron was nothing before Hughes got him to the playoffs

[Overdrive]

Totschlagargument, yet, you say no one could possibly believe LeBron to be better than Jordan...

Believe me, I know enough about their fierce rivalry and genuine dislike for each other.

But we're over 30 years beyond that now, in almost all sporting rivalries, the guys have grown and mellowed up and look back fondly on the days they spent competing with each other...

and yet in this case, everyone wants to write these opinions off as "oh he just mad"...

Thats laughable.

Its as laughable to me as considering MJ to be better than LeBron after what he has done in 2017 and 2018, toppling MJ thoroughly across ALL elements of the game now, even scoring.

He does everything MJ did only more, and for a much longer period of time as well.

One can't talk himself out of that. Its pretty cut and dry at this point. LeBron is still going on. Adding to it.

I wrote most think, not everyone has to think or thinks, Jordan's better. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. You on the other hand state Lebron's perceived superiority as fact and everything else is laughable.

Laimbeer is a sad ****. He still hates Robert Parish for his punch after Laimbeer tried to injure him for years and took him down right before that. Some people hold grudges for all of their life. As sad as it is.


Is it so hard to get that some people just think that LeBron is a better player than Jordan?

It has nothing to do with Laimbeer "hating" Jordan he just thinks that LeBron is better stop being so buthurt

I said most. Most have Jordan as GOAT. Like it or not.

I'm not butthurt. I despised Jordan when he played. I actually never liked players that are hyped as the best thing since sliced bread. Not because they're not great, but people act like they're some unfailable god.

Jordan unlike the others is a real douche to go long with it. I wish someone would dethrone him, but Lebron imo just isn't that guy.

[red1]

How many wins for Pippen without MJ in 1988?

They needed to develop a 3-peat system to win without MJ.. Everyone knew this - imagine how dumb you look 30 years later trying to change history

Your statements = someone coming along in 2035 and saying Lebron was nothing before Hughes got him to the playoffs

I'm not the one trying to convince everyone that mj had the worst help for any star ever.


if you're making a claim that ridiculous then the burden of proof falls on you.


and there is no evidence for that. because again - his bulls won 55-games without him.


thats a decent or good team at worst.


and it's possibly - just possibly - a stacked team.

[3ball]

I'm not the one trying to convince everyone that mj had the worst help for any star ever.


if you're making a claim that ridiculous then the burden of proof falls on you.


and there is no evidence for that. because again - his bulls won 55-games without him.


thats a decent or good team at worst.


and it's possibly - just possibly - a stacked team.
Horace Grant at 2nd option = no talent team

So the 94' Bulls won via teamwork, not talent (3-peat system)

And MJ did have the worst help... No one who won multiple rings had worse help, except maybe Hakeem, but we all know his rings have a major asterisk.. 1 all-star teammate = 6 rings, while guys like Kareem, Magic and Lebron needed 7-9 all-star teammates in their career, and at least 2 perennial all-stars to win any ring

[red1]

Horace Grant at 2nd option = no talent team

So the 94' Bulls won via teamwork, not talent (3-peat system)

that may be true.

so either the bulls were a no talent team that was good enough to win 50+ games (meaning the league was weak. it must be a weak league if a no talent team can win 55 games)


or they were a team that had some talent and some competence.


which is it?

[red1]

I have to step out and do some work need to make some calls as well- I'll be back for your ass 3ball sit tight.

[3ball]

it must be a weak league if a no talent team can win 55 games)


or they were a team that had some talent and some competence.



You keep leaving out an option:

Teamwork (3-peat system)

Teamwork wins too, not just talent

And I get it - every team needs a little talent to win the championship... but we aren't talking about championship - we're talking about 55 wins and 2nd Round.. so no - you don't need talent to do that - great teamwork and 3-peat system is more than enough

Hope that helps

[Cyrus334]

:lol
Why would the Pistons hate Jordan? They eliminated him in the playoffs three straight years. Look it up

88, 89, 90

That would be like LeBron hating DeMar Derozan.

Well no, not exactly. Derozan was never a threat to Lebron, ever. The Raps took them to 6 in 16 but everyone knew the Cavs were toying with them and didn't even try in Game's 3 and 4. Case in point, they swept them the next two years in embarassing fashion and essentially forced Masai to take one of the biggest gambles in recent history just to get Derozan out of Toronto.

Jordan was a threat to the Pistons starting from 88 and onward. Apparently you forgot that the Bulls were actually the Pistons toughest challenge during their title runs in both 89 and 90 where the Bulls were the only team to win any games against the Pistons in 89 and pushed them to Game 7 in 90. The Pistons saw how Jordan was developing and knew once he had the roster to compete, he'd finally overtake them and they were right in 91 when the Bulls swept them.

You don't develop a specific set of rules to defend one player if you don't have that player in your sights.

[Da_Realist]

Well no, not exactly. Derozan was never a threat to Lebron, ever. The Raps took them to 6 in 16 but everyone knew the Cavs were toying with them and didn't even try in Game's 3 and 4. Case in point, they swept them the next two years in embarassing fashion and essentially forced Masai to take one of the biggest gambles in recent history just to get Derozan out of Toronto.

Jordan was a threat to the Pistons starting from 88 and onward. Apparently you forgot that the Bulls were actually the Pistons toughest challenge during their title runs in both 89 and 90 where the Bulls were the only team to win any games against the Pistons in 89 and pushed them to Game 7 in 90. The Pistons saw how Jordan was developing and knew once he had the roster to compete, he'd finally overtake them and they were right in 91 when the Bulls swept them.

You don't develop a specific set of rules to defend one player if you don't have that player in your sights.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKXAwkkzTjY

^^ The Isiah Olympics Snub

Pistons derided and mocked MJ for not winning. Not only did he go on to win 3 times as many titles, but he embarrassed them in 1991.

Plus the Pistons felt that MJ and the Bulls devalued their championships.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-05-28-9102170643-story.html

[scuzzy]

Always respected Bill


And he like many other 80's greats have no reason to hate Jordan, he was their perinneal jizzrag for a half decade. Little baby brother

[Bronbron23]

Once again, another 80's-90's player who competed against MJ dropping hard anecdotal facts :applause:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHliam4z1rY



https://media.giphy.com/media/3ofSBs4Q1f8Q4aRFkc/giphy.gif

In that same interview he also says he dosnt watch nba so hes obviously just hating on mj.

[Cyrus334]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKXAwkkzTjY

^^ The Isiah Olympics Snub

Pistons derided and mocked MJ for not winning. Not only did he go on to win 3 times as many titles, but he embarrassed them in 1991.

Plus the Pistons felt that MJ and the Bulls devalued their championships.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-05-28-9102170643-story.html


Yeah that too. The Pistons had more than enough reasons to hate Jordan.

[red1]

You keep leaving out an option:

Teamwork (3-peat system)

Teamwork wins too, not just talent

And I get it - every team needs a little talent to win the championship... but we aren't talking about championship - we're talking about 55 wins and 2nd Round.. so no - you don't need talent to do that - great teamwork and 3-peat system is more than enough

Hope that helps

sorry dude I'm back have to jump on a conference call in 15 - I'll probably post while I'm on mute :roll:





dude. we already know that you are a dishonest serial liar. all I'm trying to get out of you is that basketball is a team sport. which you refuse to admit - you're just obsessed with narratives and extrapolating false outcomes based on those narratives.


all I'm telling you is that the facts absolutely refute the narrative that you've been trying to push forever - that the championship bulls were one-man team. you literally argue that pippen is a fake allstar that cant score. you said today that horace grant wasnt a good defender.


one man teams dont win 55-games in the modern NBA. period.


you think a guy like magic tmac or a guy like 2006 kobe wouldnt kill for pippen horace grant even a bj armstrong?


THATs what poor supporting help looks like.



and I know the reason you refuse to acknowledge the facts - EVERYONE knows the reason. its because you're only interested in propping up what is already the GOAT. you aren't interested in facts or the real picture.

[bullettooth]

In that same interview he also says he dosnt watch nba so hes obviously just hating on mj.

This.... but these Bron nut huggers are like your average Trump supporter. They're morons.

[Docs Orders]

This.... but these Bron nut huggers are like your average Trump supporter. They're morons.

Looks like you're going to cry

[3ball]

sorry dude I'm back have to jump on a conference call in 15 - I'll probably post while I'm on mute :roll:





dude. we already know that you are a dishonest serial liar. all I'm trying to get out of you is that basketball is a team sport. which you refuse to admit - you're just obsessed with narratives and extrapolating false outcomes based on those narratives.


all I'm telling you is that the facts absolutely refute the narrative that you've been trying to push forever - that the championship bulls were one-man team. you literally argue that pippen is a fake allstar that cant score. you said today that horace grant wasnt a good defender.


one man teams dont win 55-games in the modern NBA. period.


you think a guy like magic tmac or a guy like 2006 kobe wouldnt kill for pippen horace grant even a bj armstrong?


THATs what poor supporting help looks like.



and I know the reason you refuse to acknowledge the facts - EVERYONE knows the reason. its because you're only interested in propping up what is already the GOAT. you aren't interested in facts or the real picture.
Bruh, lebron won 66 with a weak cast just like Pippen won 55 with one

Dirk won 67 with arguably a weaker cast than both.

In the early 90's, Jeff Hornacek was putting up Pippen numbers (20/5/6) and leading sub-par casts in scoring and to 55 wins

DeRozan won 60 with garbage (aka lowry.. case in point)

Some people argue that Curry's goat offensive season and first-ever unanimous MVP performance was completely needed to win 73 because his cast wasn't as great as people think.. if it was so great why was Curry's goat offensive season needed?

Marc Gasol rountinely won 55 with non-descript casts

So 55 wins - especially with a 3-peat cast - is NOT a big deal

[red1]

Bruh, lebron won 66 with a weak cast just like Pippen won 55 with one

Dirk won 67 with arguably a weaker cast than both.

In the early 90's, Jeff Hornacek was putting up Pippen numbers (20/5/6) and leading sub-par casts in scoring and to 55 wins

DeRozan won 60 with garbage (aka lowry.. case in point)

Some people argue that Curry's goat offensive season and first-ever unanimous MVP performance was completely needed to win 73 because his cast wasn't as great as people think.. if it was so great why was Curry's goat offensive season needed?

Marc Gasol rountinely won 55 with non-descript casts

So 55 wins - especially with a 3-peat cast - is NOT. a big deal
dude how you do always gloss over the facts?


I get what you're saying and its probably the true, the conference may have been weak.


the point that I am making is that MJ's supporting cast won 55-games WITHOUT him.


why are you listing gasol or derozan or dirk? what are you even talking about? you putting pippen on dirk's tier?


you can't say a supporting cast is garbage if they can win 55 games on their own.

[3ball]

dude how you do always gloss over the facts?


I get what you're saying and its probably the true, the conference may have been weak.


the point that I am making is that MJ's supporting cast won 55-games WITHOUT him.


why are you listing gasol or derozan or dirk? what are you even talking about? you putting pippen on dirk's tier?


you can't say a supporting cast is garbage if they can win 55 games on their own.
Most champions don't win off just talent

And teams that actually reach goat caliber, aka 3-peat - they reach that high by having better strategy, know-how and sheer basketball then everyone, not just talent.. This better basketball is what allows them to win 55 when they lose their best talent

You claim Pippen's Bulls won 55 because they were stacked with stars? Where are they? Who are they?.. poor man's Mo Williams (BJ) and poor man's PJ Brown (Grant)?.. poor man's odom (Kukoc)?... tgats weak... so surely the #1 option was carrying these guys with 35 ppg... Oh wait... Only 22 ppg on weak efficiency from the #1 option?... Damn.. Looks like they won via teamwork, not talent... 3-peat system

[red1]

Most champions don't win off just talent

And teams that actually reach goat caliber, aka 3-peat - they reach that high by having better strategy, know-how and sheer basketball then everyone, not just talent.. This better basketball is what allows them to win 55 when they lose their best talent

You claim Pippen's Bulls won 55 because they were stacked with stars? Where are they? Who are they?.. poor man's Mo Williams (BJ) and poor man's PJ Brown (Grant)?

what? :oldlol:


every single basketball champion in NBA history won off of talent. obviously it isnt JUST talent but without talent you are screwed.


that's what winning is - knowing how to use your physical ability and your skill to get the outcome that you want.



it's common sense.


YOU are the one that argues mj will elevate any player regardless of their talent - YOU are the one who argued that mj would turn mo williams into a surefire guaranteed championship second option.


in reality there is zero evidence for that - and it wouldnt happen. just because you compare mo williams stats with pippens stats it wont suddenly make mo williams the greatest perimeter defender of all-time


"mo williams has superior talent than every player mj ever played with"


you're a worse GM than jordan :roll:

[3ball]

what? :oldlol:


every single basketball champion in NBA history won off of talent. obviously it isnt JUST talent but without talent you are screwed.

that's what winning is - knowing how to use your physical ability and your skill to get the outcome that you want.



it's common sense.


YOU are the one that argues mj will elevate any player regardless of their talent - YOU are the one who argued that mj would turn mo williams into a surefire guaranteed championship second option.


in reality there is zero evidence for that - and it wouldnt happen. just because you compare mo williams stats with pippens stats it wont suddenly make mo williams the greatest perimeter defender of all-time


"mo williams has superior talent than every player mj ever played with"


you're a worse GM than jordan :roll:





MJ makes the 09' Finals with Mo... I never said he would've beaten Kobe that year

And only MJ had to elevate single-digit rookies to all-star caliber to win (Grant, Pippen, BJ).. so he did what lebron failed to do - elevate weak players into respectable players and champions... Pippen wasn't a fluke - MJ did that to grant and bj too... And woolridge/Oakley achieved their highs with MJ... MJ elevated everyone

You claim Pippen's Bulls won 55 because they were stacked with stars? Where are they? Who are they?.. poor man's Mo Williams (BJ) and poor man's PJ Brown (Grant)?.. poor man's odom (Kukoc)?... thats weak... so surely the #1 option was carrying these guys with 35 ppg... Oh wait... Only 22 ppg on weak efficiency from the #1 option?... Damn.. Looks like they won via teamwork, not talent... 3-peat system

[red1]

MJ makes the 09' Finals with Mo... I never said he would've beaten Kobe that year

And only MJ had to elevate single-digit rookies to all-star caliber to win (Grant, Pippen, BJ).. so he did what lebron failed to do - elevate weak players into respectable players... Pippen wasn't a fluke - MJ dud that to grant and bj too... And woolridge/Oakley achieved their highs with MJ... MJ elevated everyone

You claim Pippen's Bulls won 55 because they were stacked with stars? Where are they? Who are they?.. poor man's Mo Williams (BJ) and poor man's PJ Brown (Grant)?.. poor man's odom (Kukoc)?... tgats weak... so surely the #1 option was carrying these guys with 35 ppg... Oh wait... Only 22 ppg on weak efficiency from the #1 option?... Damn.. Looks like they won via teamwork, not talent... 3-peat system

dude you need to stop flipflopping and need to learn to stick to your guns.


how you gonna change the goalpost every 10 seconds? you already twist everything I'm not even asking you to be honest, just stick to your arguments.


you literally argued that jordan would've beat the 09 magic guaranteed if you swapped him with lbj 1 to 1 (he wouldnt) and then you said he'd win the finals (he wouldnt do this either - guaranteed).



if you had a shred of honesty you'd admit that you actually have nothing because your main arguments were factually debunked

1. balldominance doesnt win championships (yes it does go look at all of the nba champions in history they all have ball-dominant stars. just because lebron pounds the rock and its ugly it doesnt mean that it wont win.)
2. lebron isnt a winner and won't retire top-20 (this became top - 15 - you reneged on this as well and now claim he wont be top-10 - you have him at 11 :roll:)
3. jordan was a one-man team


not one of these arguments is right. I'm not going to open the can of worms on all of the different agendas that you've peddled that also got completely shit on (magic is a bum, larry bird is the second best of all-time, every player of all-time in NBA history other than mj and bird are trash - players like shaq kobe curry pippen all complete trash etc etc)


complete glutton for punishment. you're homer simpson in this equation and drederick tatum is common sense. you're fighting a losing battle.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-29-2015/0jpd5x.gif

[3ball]

dude you need to stop flipflopping and need to learn to stick to your guns.


how you gonna change the goalpost every 10 seconds? you already twist everything I'm not even asking you to be honest, just stick to your arguments.


you literally argued that jordan would've beat the 09 magic guaranteed if you swapped him with lbj 1 to 1 (he wouldnt) and then you said he'd win the finals (he wouldnt do this either - guaranteed).



if you had a shred of honesty you'd admit that you actually have nothing because your main arguments were factually debunked

1. balldominance doesnt win championships (yes it does go look at all of the nba champions in history they all have ball-dominant stars. just because lebron pounds the rock and its ugly it doesnt mean that it wont win.)
2. lebron isnt a winner and won't retire top-20 (this became top - 15 - you reneged on this as well and now claim he wont be top-10 - you have him at 11 :roll:)
3. jordan was a one-man team


not one of these arguments is right. I'm not going to open the can of worms on all of the different agendas that you've peddled that also got completely shit on (magic is a bum, larry bird is the second best of all-time, every player of all-time in NBA history other than mj and bird are trash - players like shaq kobe curry pippen all complete trash etc etc)


complete glutton for punishment. you're homer simpson in this equation and drederick tatum is common sense. you're fighting a losing battle.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-29-2015/0jpd5x.gif
I never said MJ would beat Kobe in the Finals in 09'

10' is possible because they added Shaq and Jamison

And ball-dominators that lead their team in scoring dont win... or almost never (possibly never)... Maybe 2 out of 50 years when everything falls just right (a broken clock/style is still right 2 times)

ultimately, ball-dominators that lead the team in scoring need an extra boost, like team-hopping.. aka lebron got 8 extra chances at the Finals by forming a strong team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning

[RRR3]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-29-2015/0jpd5x.gif


Red (Tatum) vs 3ball (Homer)

[red1]

I never said MJ would beat Kobe in the Finals in 09'

yeah you did. thats exactly what you said and argued.


stop lying. :oldlol:


I'm glad that you flipflopped AGAIN because NOW you are right - mike would not have beaten the lakers and kobe with that garbage cavs roster.


10' is possible because they added Shaq and Jamison

And ball-dominators that lead their team in scoring dont win... or almost never (possibly never)... Maybe 2 out of 59 years... ball-dominators that lead the team in scoring need an extra boost, like team-hopping.. lebron got 8 extra chances at the Finals by forming a strong team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning
this guy :roll:


wrong. again.


wrong wrong wrong.


2010 shaq and jamison? did you even watch a single cavs game that year?


go watch the 2010 series with the celtics and tell me how great 2010 jamison and 2010 shaq were. :oldlol:


And ball-dominators that lead their team in scoring dont win... or almost never (possibly never)... Maybe 2 out of 59 years... ball-dominators that lead the team in scoring need an extra boost, like team-hopping.. lebron got 8 extra chances at the Finals by forming a strong team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning
that's a new one :roll:


I can just imagine 3ball at the 2016 cavs parade passing out flyers telling people not to celebrate "guys its a fake ring its not real he's a loser 3 for 9. fake ring please guys stop celebrating" :oldlol:

[3ball]

yeah you did. thats exactly what you said and argued.


stop lying. :oldlol:


I'm glad that you flipflopped AGAIN because NOW you are right - he would not have beaten the lakers with that garbage cavs roster.


this guy :roll:


wrong. again.


wrong wrong wrong.


2010 shaq and jamison? did you even watch a single cavs game that year?


go watch the 2010 series with the celtics and tell me how great 2010 jamison and 2010 shaq were. :oldlol:


that's a new one :roll:


I can just imagine 3ball at the 2016 cavs parade passing out flyers telling people not to celebrate "guys its fake ring its not real he's a loser 3 for 9. fake ring please guys stop celebrating" :oldlol:
No one said 16' was a fake ring

But he was going to win eventually

It's like the 10-72 clippers celebrating one of their wins

It's like, relax bro, no team goes winless forever... But the question is "are you a loser in general/overall??"...

And lebron most definitely is - the biggest loser ever in modern Finals history (3/9 and 18-32 overall record, aka worst-ever, aka goat loser)

[red1]

No one said 16' was a fake ring

But he was going to win eventually

It's like the 10-72 clippers celebrating one of their wins

It's like, relax bro, no team goes winless forever... But the question is "are you a loser in general/overall??"...

And lebron most definitely is - the biggest loser ever in modern Finals history (3/9 and 18-32 overall record, aka worst-ever, aka goat loser)

wrong - he's arguably the second winningest player in NBA history after mike. :oldlol:


let me ask you a question 3ball.


say you are a businessperson. say you close 3 large deals including one large deal that is the largest deal in the history of the company - a deal that large hadn't be closed in 50 years, if ever, at that company.


is this person a loser if they had to present their service or product 9 different times?

[3ball]

wrong - he's arguably the second winningest player in NBA history after mike. :oldlol:


let me ask you a question 3ball.


say you are a businessperson. say you close 3 large deals including one large deal that is the largest deal in the history of the company - a deal that large hadn't be closed in 50 years, if ever, at that company.


is this person a loser if they had to present their service or product 9 different times?
compared to someone that has a 100% closing rate, a 33% rate is definitely loser and shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as the undefeated closer

[red1]

compared to someone that has a 100% closing rate, a 33% rate is definitely loser and shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as the undefeated closer

Aha. there we go.


your argument assumes that carrying your team to the finals is worse than losing in the earlier rounds.


let me ask you again - is that what you're saying?

[highwhey]

:rockon:

[red1]

:rockon:

oh shit you're a laimbeer fan too?



thats dope fam. I always appreciate a man who speaks his mind with zero agenda. :cheers:




https://www.baconsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/bill-laimbeer-upper-deck.jpg

[3ball]

Aha. there we go.


your argument assumes that carrying your team to the finals is worse than losing in the earlier rounds.


let me ask you again - is that what you're saying?
Both MJ and Lebron led their team to the Finals, but MJ's runs required more stats and production, aka higher PPG, PER, BPM, and WS/48 (and clutch, aka 20% more clutch attempts on far better efficiency)

Ultimately:

- lebron has 9 ECF wins to Jordan's 6
- jordan has 6 Finals wins to Lebron's 3

^^^ so jordan's 3 extra Finals wins > lebron's 3 extra ECF wins

[Vino24]

MJ’s stats were not required. Bulls won 50+ games without MJ

[red1]

Both MJ and Lebron led their team to the Finals, but MJ's runs required more stats and production, aka higher PPG, PER, BPM, and WS/48 (and clutch, aka 20% more clutch attempts on far better efficiency)

Ultimately:

- lebron has 9 ECF wins to Jordan's 6
- jordan has 6 Finals wins to Lebron's 3

^^^ so jordan's 3 extra Finals wins > lebron's 3 extra ECF wins
I actually agree with your point but your logic is bad. you cant compare stats on a 1 to 1 basis. thats why you keep confusing yourself into thinking mo williams and scottie are the same. or ditto with varejao and grant


but you didnt answer my question. you argue that it is worse to make the finals and lose than it is to lose in the earlier rounds - say the first round. I just want to confirm again that you still believe that? (you've flipflopped on many things, just making sure)


and let me ask you this - is it better to be 100/100 and undefeated against the top 100 womens teams in the world (you're an NBA player)


or is it better to be the best player amongst ALL the men in the world? meaning your peers, your contemporary competitors?


and again the most important criteria is leading your team to a championship right?



a lot of questions I know 3ball. just bear with me I know you aren't doing shit.

[3ball]

I actually agree with your point but your logic is bad. you cant compare stats on a 1 to 1 basis. thats why you keep confusing yourself into thinking mo williams and scottie are the same. or ditto with varejao and grant


but you didnt answer my question. you argue that it is worse to make the finals and lose than it is to lose in the earlier rounds - say the first round. I just want to confirm again that you still believe that? (you've flipflopped on many things, just making sure)


and let me ask you this - is it better to be 100/100 and undefeated against the top 100 womens teams in the world (you're an NBA player)


or is it better to be the best player amongst ALL the men in the world? meaning your peers, your contemporary competitors?


and again the most important criteria is leading your team to a championship right?



a lot of questions I know 3ball. just bear with me I know you aren't doing shit.
Both lebron and MJ lost in earlier rounds so you have no point

You just want to compare lebron's Finals-making years to MJ's early round years, which is dumb because I can do the same thing... i.e. yes indeed, it was better when MJ won the 91' title than when lebron lost in 2nd round with a 1 seed... :rolleyes:.... "b-b-but MJ won the title and lebron lost in 2nd round so MJ better" heerrrrr durrrrr

^^^ That's your logic for lebron... Dumb as shit... Batshit dumb

Again, ultimately - MJ's 3 extra Finals wins > Lebron's 3 extra conference finals

[red1]

Both lebron and MJ lost in earlier rounds so you have no point

You just want to compare lebron's Finsls-making years to MJ's early round years, which is dumb because I can do the same thing... Yes indeed, it was better when MJ win the 91' title than when lebron lost in 2nd round with a 1 seed... :rolleyes:.... "b-b-but MJ won the title and lebron lost in 2nd round so MJ better" heerrrrr durrrrr

^^^ That's your logic for lebron... Dumb as shit... Batshit dumb

Again, ultimately - MJ's 3 extra Finals wins > Lebron's 3 extra conference finals

I do have a point. its the SAME points as always. Im still after the same thing - you've genuflected and lowered your knee just a little bit by going from "not top-20" to "barely top-11"


you dont have to like what I like, and I know its childish - I just want you to agree and say "undisputed top-5, top 10 even on the biggest (most deranged) hater's list aka 3ball"



answer my questions please, dear brother 3ball.


you argue that it is worse to make the finals and lose than it is to lose in the earlier rounds - say the first round. I just want to confirm again that you still believe that? (you've flipflopped on many things, just making sure)


and let me ask you this - is it better to be 100/100 and undefeated against the top 100 womens teams in the world (you're an NBA player)


or is it better to be the best player amongst ALL the men in the world? meaning your peers, your contemporary competitors?


and again the most important criteria is leading your team to a championship right?

[LAmbruh]

oh shit you're a laimbeer fan too?



thats dope fam. I always appreciate a man who speaks his mind with zero agenda. :cheers:




https://www.baconsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/bill-laimbeer-upper-deck.jpg

Huge Laimbeer fan :applause:

[Axe]

Zzz

[FromDowntown]

:lol
Why would the Pistons hate Jordan? They eliminated him in the playoffs three straight years. Look it up

88, 89, 90

That would be like LeBron hating DeMar Derozan.
Guys?

[warriorfan]

Guys?

Hey, here’s a little attention. Hope you feel better.

[FromDowntown]

Hey, here’s a little attention. Hope you feel better.

Thanks you.

Why would the Pistons hate Jordan? They eliminated him in the playoffs three straight years. Look it up

88, 89, 90

That would be like LeBron hating DeMar Derozan.

[sportjames23]

Thanks you.

Why would the Pistons hate Jordan? They eliminated him in the playoffs three straight years. Look it up

88, 89, 90

That would be like LeBron hating DeMar Derozan.

Maybe because MJ ended their little mini-dynasty in embarrassing fashion (even when they beat the Bulls, the Pistons never swept them). And he not only destroyed them, he went on to lead his team to dominate the decade, something Laimbeer’s team couldn’t do.

[AirBonner]

Maybe because MJ ended their little mini-dynasty in embarrassing fashion (even when they beat the Bulls, the Pistons never swept them). And he not only destroyed them, he went on to lead his team to dominate the decade, something Laimbeer’s team couldn’t do.

They got the best of MJ just like Bird did

[SamuraiSWISH]

Maybe because MJ ended their little mini-dynasty in embarrassing fashion (even when they beat the Bulls, the Pistons never swept them). And he not only destroyed them, he went on to lead his team to dominate the decade, something Laimbeer’s team couldn’t do.
True

[Axe]

Thanks you.

Why would the Pistons hate Jordan? They eliminated him in the playoffs three straight years. Look it up

88, 89, 90

That would be like LeBron hating DeMar Derozan.
Rofl why spam this crap again?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Thanks you.

Why would the Pistons hate Jordan? They eliminated him in the playoffs three straight years. Look it up

88, 89, 90

That would be like LeBron hating DeMar Derozan.
And then Demar DeFrozen eliminating Queen 3 for 9 in a straight curb stomping sweep

[FromDowntown]

Maybe because MJ ended their little mini-dynasty in embarrassing fashion (even when they beat the Bulls, the Pistons never swept them). And he not only destroyed them, he went on to lead his team to dominate the decade, something Laimbeer’s team couldn’t do.
https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png

[scuzzy]

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png
:oldlol:

[AirBonner]

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png:lol:lol:lol

[warriorfan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouFqVzZWO7E&app=desktop&persist_app=1

He needs to get his teammates involved though! :mad:

[FromDowntown]

:lol:lol:lol

:lol

[3ball]

Everyone already knows that young players struggle alongside lebron - his style prevents their growth and turns them into spot-up shooters.. Lebron infact needs ready-made veteran teammates that already know how to play.

^^^ this is common knowledge, yet one of the biggest myths in sports history is that lebron makes teammates better (he obviously doesn't) and Jordan doesn't make guys better (he infact did).

The stats show this clearly

only MJ had to grow single-digit rookies to all-star caliber to win (Pip, Grant, BJ), while most of lebron's teammates don't see growth alongside him and must sacrifice their game to play with him..

I understand that he made Mo Williams better and maybe even Kyrie, but there's more cases of teammates declining alongside him, and him needing replacements or new scenery instead.

MJ sacrificed his game to fit into a system that allowed everyone to thrive (team elevation and teammate stat growth), while lebron's teamnates must sacrifice their game and stats to play with him.

So why do people say lebron makes teammates better?... Is it the assists? Because even that's wrong...

MJ averaged 6.6 apg from 85-93', and Lebron averaged 7.2 from 06-16', so they both averaged near-equal assists through 3 rings each.. for their careers, it's common knowledge that MJ averaged 5-6 apg (only 1-2 less then lebron), including an 8 apg season and 11 apg Finals.. When MJ played PG for 24 games in 1989, the Associated Press said he was already equal or better than Magic/Isiah/Stockton after 5 only games at the new position.

But the personal assists are irrelevant because Lebron's monopolization of the playmaking results in low TEAM assists - the common thread in lebron's last 4 Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists, whereas MJ's game resulted in higher assist teams where everyone is assisting, not just 1 guy.

[3ball]

Everyone already knows that young players struggle alongside lebron - his style prevents their growth and turns them into spot-up shooters.. Lebron infact needs ready-made veteran teammates that already know how to play.

^^^ this is common knowledge, yet one of the biggest myths in sports history is that lebron makes teammates better (he obviously doesn't) and Jordan doesn't make guys better (he infact did).

The stats show this clearly

only MJ had to grow single-digit rookies to all-star caliber to win (Pip, Grant, BJ), while most of lebron's teammates don't see growth alongside him and must sacrifice their game to play with him..

I understand that he made Mo Williams better and maybe even Kyrie, but there's more cases of teammates declining alongside him, and him needing replacements or new scenery instead.

MJ sacrificed his game to fit into a system that allowed everyone to thrive (team elevation and teammate stat growth), while lebron's teamnates must sacrifice their game and stats to play with him.

So why do people say lebron makes teammates better?... Is it the assists? Because even that's wrong...

MJ averaged 6.6 apg from 85-93', and Lebron averaged 7.2 from 06-16', so they both averaged near-equal assists through 3 rings each.. for their careers, it's common knowledge that MJ averaged 5-6 apg (only 1-2 less then lebron), including an 8 apg season and 11 apg Finals.. When MJ played PG for 24 games in 1989, the Associated Press said he was already equal or better than Magic/Isiah/Stockton after 5 only games at the new position.

But the personal assists are irrelevant because Lebron's monopolization of the playmaking results in low TEAM assists - the common thread in lebron's last 4 Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists, whereas MJ's game resulted in higher assist teams where everyone is assisting, not just 1 guy.

Finally, this idea that high personal assists makes other guys better is misguided - getting an assist makes guys better, but being an assist target so others can make plays also makes them better (and diversifies the offense for a higher team ceiling and Finals record).. So Lebron makes guys better play-finishers but not better playmakers, whereas MJ did both

[3ball]

.
Thread Cliffs:


Lebron has a good handle so he handles the rock and assists teammates/improves their play-finishing.

But he lacks the shooting and footwork to be an assist target, so he doesn't improve teammates' playmaking or the assist capacity of teams

Otoh, MJ handled the rock/assisted teammates, so he improved their play-finishing like Lebron does, but he also improved their playmaking by being the goat assist target off-the-ball..

MJ's superior versatility in making guys better (improving their play-finishing and playmaking), meant that he improved teammates more than Lebron.. better teammate maximization allowed perennial favorite status and better teams, while lebron's lesser teammate maximization (play-finishing only) resulted in perennial underdogs and lower team ceilings, aka 3/9

[highwhey]

oh shit you're a laimbeer fan too?



thats dope fam. I always appreciate a man who speaks his mind with zero agenda. :cheers:




https://www.baconsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/bill-laimbeer-upper-deck.jpg

yessir. he was a real tough son of a b1tch too.

[red1]

3ball for years:

"this lebron guy he's not that good trust me guys he cant win. he's not a top-20 player of all time. trust me, I'm sure of this."

"FYI mike won without any help. scottie pippen is a fake allstar and the worst offensive player of all time. mo williams is much better"


3 finals MVPs later

lebron = 1
3ball = 0



3ball now regarding mo williams: "oh sorry I was wrong about that - I dont know why I wrote 100 essays arguing that mo williams is more talented than scottie pippen. you're actually right scottie was better"

regarding the constant spam: "oh sorry I was wrong about that too lebron is top-11 even though I wrote 10k essays arguing that he isn't top 20. my bad you were right."



this flipflopping clown right here. cut from the exact same cloth as KD. :oldlol:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FlimsyInfiniteFinwhale-max-1mb.gif

[red1]

yessir. he was a real tough son of a b1tch too.

no doubt :cheers:

[LukeWalton]

as far as playoffs go
3-1

Pistons beat Bulls
1988
1989
1990

Bulls beat Pistons
1991

[3ball]

3ball for years:

"this lebron guy he's not that good trust me guys he cant win. he's not a top-20 player of all time. trust me, I'm sure of this."

"FYI mike won without any help. scottie pippen is a fake allstar and the worst offensive player of all time. mo williams is much better"


3 finals MVPs later

lebron = 1
3ball = 0



3ball now regarding mo williams: "oh sorry I was wrong about that - I dont know why I wrote 100 essays arguing that mo williams is more talented than scottie pippen. you're actually right scottie was better"

regarding the constant spam: "oh sorry I was wrong about that too lebron is top-11 even though I wrote 10k essays arguing that he isn't top 20. my bad you were right."



this flipflopping clown right here. cut from the exact same cloth as KD. :oldlol:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FlimsyInfiniteFinwhale-max-1mb.gif


All of Lebron's sidekicks out-produced Pippen:


09' Mo Will RS... 18/3/4.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 17.1 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
89' Pippen RS'... 14/6/4.. 52.4 ts.. 102 ORtg.. 14.9 PER.. 0.080 ws/48.. 1.4 bpm.. 2.1 vorp

09' Mo Will ECF...... 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. #3 team defense.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
89' Pippen 1st Rd... 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. #11 team defense.. beat #1 SRS (3 all-stars*)

* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper




Career Finals Stats

Wade 11-14...... 21.1 ppg.. 5.2 rpg.. 4.5 apg.. 47.9%
Pippen Career... 19.0 ppg.. 8.3 rpg.. 5.9 apg.. 42.5%
Wade Career..... 23.9 ppg.. 5.7 rpg.. 4.3 apg.. 47.6%


Per 100 Possessions - Playoffs

14' Wade..... 28.6 pts.. 6.2 ast.. 56.0 ts.. 106 ortg.. 18.5 PER.. 0.086 ws/48.. 1.6 obpm
93' Pippen... 26.2 pts.. 7.4 ast.. 50.0 ts.. 102 ortg.. 16.9 PER.. 0.083 ws/48.. 1.1 obpm




Playoffs

Kyrie 16-17' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2016-2017-sum:playoffs_per_game)...... 23.9 ppg.. 57.3 ts.. 41% threes.. 89% ft.. 23.0 PER.. 0.181 ws/48.. 3.6 obpm
Pippen 91-96' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1996-sum:playoffs_per_game)... 19.8 ppg.. 52.4 ts.. 28% threes.. 72% ft.. 19.7 PER.. 0.157 ws/48.. 3.1 obpm

Kyrie 16-17' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2016-2017-sum:playoffs_advanced)...... outplayed league mvp.. hit Finals-winning shot
Pippen 91-96' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1996-sum:playoffs_advanced)... outplayed by schrempf.. no winning shots

[red1]

why do you always repost those stats? and why are you comparing 09 mo williams with 89 pippen? you said mo williams was better than championship pippen so thats 91-93 and 96-98


and please stop flipflopping - you argued the '09 cavs supporting cast was superior to the championship bulls.


there should be an IQ test before you're allowed to post as much as you do. :oldlol:

[3ball]

why do you always repost those stats? and why are you comparing 09 mo williams with 89 pippen? you said mo williams was better than championship pippen so thats 91-93 and 96-98


and please stop flipflopping - you argued the '09 cavs supporting cast was superior to the championship bulls.


there should be an IQ test before you're allowed to post as much as you do. :oldlol:
Mo played alongside young Lebron, so it makes sense to compare him to young jordan's cast, aka 89' Pip

So Mo > 89' Pip... And Wade/Kyrie > prime pip... As the stats clearly show

[FromDowntown]

as far as playoffs go
3-1

Pistons beat Bulls
1988
1989
1990

Bulls beat Pistons
1991

Ether

[3ball]

Ether
The Pistons beat a Mchale/Parish/DJ cast and also a Kareem/Worthy/Scott cast

So it's goat that MJ was almost beating them and drastically out-performing the league against them with just 89' Pippen, aka nothing

[RRR3]

Mo played alongside young Lebron, so it makes sense to compare him to young jordan's cast, aka 89' Pip

So Mo > 89' Pip... And Wade/Kyrie > prime pip... As the stats clearly show
Mo played alongside 6th year LeBron. So you have to compare him to 90 Pippen (6th year MJ). :D

[3ball]

Mo played alongside 6th year LeBron. So you have to compare him to 90 Pippen (6th year MJ). :D
It's basically the same. Pippen averaged 16 on 41% in ECF and basically missed Game 7 (just like he missed Game 6 in 89')

Btw, the 90' Bulls cast just had Pippen, who wasn't all-defense - otoh, the 10' Cavs had all-defense Varejao and 2 all-star-caliber sidekicks who were super-experienced vets.. so Bron's 2010 cast was better than MJ's in 90', yet he lost in 2nd round while MJ all-but made Finals

[red1]

Mo played alongside young Lebron, so it makes sense to compare him to young jordan's cast, aka 89' Pip

So Mo > 89' Pip... And Wade/Kyrie > prime pip... As the stats clearly show

thats why I call you a flip-flopper.


flip-flopping flippety-flopper.


you never stick to your guns on anything that you say, and you're always weaseling around reposting the same exact posts and stats, over and over again.


you argued that mj would've won against the '09 magic and argued that supporting cast and that cavs roster was as good or better than any of mj's championship bulls supporting casts - which was and still is a ridiculously fanboyish thing to argue. :oldlol:


your terrible stats dont show or prove anything. there's something called defense.


pippen >>> mo williams, period.


pippen won 55 without mike.

[red1]

Mo played alongside 6th year LeBron. So you have to compare him to 90 Pippen (6th year MJ). :D

I can't imagine mo williams leading a team to 55 wins.


pippen takes the dub here.

[3ball]

thats why I call you a flip-flopper.


flip-flopping flippety-flopper.


you never stick to your guns on anything that you say, and you're always weaseling around reposting the same exact posts and stats, over and over again.


you argued that mj would've won against the '09 magic and said that help was as good or better than any of mj's champion supporting casts - which was and still is a ridiculously fanboyish thing to argue. :oldlol:


your terrible stats dont show or prove anything. there's something called defense.


pippen >>> mo williams, period.


pippen won 55 without mike.
09' Mo > 89' Pippen, and the 09' Cavs had better defense too, yet they lost to #4 SRS and Bulls beat #1 SRS.. :facepalm:.. mj was so goat for beating a better team with less help than Bron had on both sides of ball

And the 88' bulls only had a simple dunker at 2nd option and weak teamwork, so they needed 35 ppg from MJ.. meanwhile, the 94' Bulls had a similar dunker at 2nd option but GREAT teamwork (3-peat system), so they only needed 22 from Pippen

[DoctorP]

Bill Laimbeer is a meathead.

[red1]

09' Mo > 89' Pippen, and the 09' Cavs had better defense too, yet they lost to #4 SRS and Bulls beat #1 SRS.. :facepalm:.. mj was so goat for beating a better team with less help than Bron had on both sides of ball

And the 88' bulls only had a simple dunker at 2nd option and weak teamwork, so they needed 35 ppg from MJ.. meanwhile, the 94' Bulls had a similar dunker at 2nd option but GREAT teamwork (3-peat system), so they only needed 22 from Pippen

yes yes I agree

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DetailedAdvancedCutworm-size_restricted.gif




Bill Laimbeer is a meathead.

dominated both genders of the game using his brain. thats the opposite of a meathead.


certified high IQ.

[DoctorP]

yes yes I agree

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DetailedAdvancedCutworm-size_restricted.gif





dominated both genders of the game using his brain. thats the opposite of a meathead.


certified high IQ.

he did the opposite of that. was a low rent bodyguard that physically bullied opponents. a hockey player. nothing wrong with that but far from high IQ. That would be Magic, Bird, LeBron, STockton, Nash...

[red1]

he did the opposite of that. was a low rent bodyguard that physically bullied opponents. a hockey player. nothing wrong with that but far from high IQ. That would be Magic, Bird, LeBron, STockton, Nash...

I dont know about that dude. you dont win 2 championships and coach of the year without a high bball IQ.

[DoctorP]

I dont know about that dude. you dont win 2 championships and coach of the year without a high bball IQ.

fair enough. i dont know about his coaching days. but ty lue won a ship...

[3ball]

I dont know about that dude. you dont win 2 championships and coach of the year without a high bball IQ.
Notice how Phil had to win 72 to get COY with MJ

That's because any coach is expected to do well with MJ - Doug Collins almost made the Finals with no cast or system!!

Otoh, it took nothing for Mike Brown to win it - dragging lebron to 66 wins and bad playoff loss is enough for COY - no goat team needed like what Phil needed

[Axe]

Notice how Phil had to win 72 to get COY with MJ

That's because any coach is expected to do well with MJ - Doug Collins almost made the Finals with no cast or system!!

Otoh, it took nothing for Mike Brown to win it - dragging lebron to 66 wins and bad playoff loss is enough for COY - no goat team needed like what Phil needed
Doug collins? Are you serious?

[3ball]

Doug collins? Are you serious?
Exactly - even Collins almost made the Finals with MJ and no cast

So any coach was expected to do well with MJ, which is why Phil needed the goat team to win COY

Otoh, it took nothing for Mike Brown to win it - dragging lebron to 66 wins and bad playoff loss is enough for COY - no goat team needed like what Phil needed

[Axe]

Exactly - even Collins almost made the Finals with MJ and no cast

So any coach was expected to do well with MJ, which is why Phil needed the goat team to win COY

Otoh, it took nothing for Mike Brown to win it - dragging lebron to 66 wins and bad playoff loss is enough for COY - no goat team needed like what Phil needed
Then tell us why it didn't happen during his years in the wizards.

[DoctorP]

Then tell us why it didn't happen during his years in the wizards.

Kwame Brown was a bust

MJ dug his own grave

MJ prob thought he was going to have an all-nba center to play with

[3ball]

Then tell us why it didn't happen during his years in the wizards.
He led the 02' Wizards to 17 more wins

Compare that to 11' Lebron/Bosh, who added a pathetic 11 wins to the 10' Heat

The 02 Wizards were actually the 4 seed halfway through the year, and only MJ/Kobe/Tmac were averaging 25/5/5 at that time... But then MJ got hurt around game #47 or so, and the season was over.. wizards cratered without mj

[Axe]

Kwame Brown was a bust

MJ dug his own grave

MJ prob thought he was going to have an all-nba center to play with
Except i was asking 3ball and not anyone else.

[DoctorP]

Except i was asking 3ball and not anyone else.

you should PM him like when you ask him for nudes

[Axe]

you should PM him like when you ask him for nudes
Lol you can't influence me with that gay hobby of yours. You should be permabanned for admitting that.

[red1]

Notice how Phil had to win 72 to get COY with MJ

That's because any coach is expected to do well with MJ - Doug Collins almost made the Finals with no cast or system!!

Otoh, it took nothing for Mike Brown to win it - dragging lebron to 66 wins and bad playoff loss is enough for COY - no goat team needed like what Phil needed

I'm actually a jordan fan and a tim grover fan - I dont like the way you keep dropping mj down the rankings in the consensus™ ISH list with every post of yours. according to you mj played on a stacked team and beat weak competition.


mj was #1. before you got here and now he's in a 1.a, 1.b situation


please dont drop our IQs any lower with any more of your opinions :lol

[3ball]

Except i was asking 3ball and not anyone else.


MJ was doing this halfway through the season as the 4 seed:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-31-2019/GgFaPT.gif


But then got hurt around game 47 and the Wizards tanked after that

[DoctorP]

Lol you can't influence me with that gay hobby of yours. You should be permabanned for admitting that.

its ok to be gay. no need to be defensive about it, knuckledragger

[Axe]

MJ was doing this halfway through the season as the 4 seed:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-31-2019/GgFaPT.gif


But then got hurt around game 47 and the Wizards tanked after that
Poor thing.

[Axe]

its ok to be gay. no need to be defensive about it, knuckledragger
Man, it really sucks to be you. You need to grow up. Seriously.

[3ball]

Poor thing.
Indeed, and he was shooting like that with a messed up finger... :facepalm:.. imagine LeBrick with a messed up shooting finger

[DoctorP]

Man, it really sucks to be you. You need to grow up. Seriously.

i wasnt talking to you. i was replying to someone else, knuckledragger

[Axe]

i wasnt talking to you. i was replying to someone else, knuckledragger
Your idiocy here is the biggest reason why the whole world has suffered from the pandemic rn.

[DoctorP]

Your idiocy here is the biggest reason why the whole world has suffered from the pandemic rn.

that's it. you are banned from all mcdonalds

[Axe]

that's it. you are banned from all mcdonalds
Says someone who doesn't have much of a life. 😒

[DoctorP]

Says someone who doesn't have much of a life. 

you dont know me, fat boy. at least i dont have heart disease

YOU
ARE
BANNED
FROM
MCDONALDS

[Axe]

you dont know me, fat boy. at least i dont have heart disease

YOU
ARE
BANNED
FROM
MCDONALDS
You don't know me either but your hobby to eat people's 💩 ain't good for the mind and the body at all.

[red1]

that's it. you are banned from all mcdonalds

:roll:

[DoctorP]

You don't know me either but your hobby to eat people's  ain't good for the mind and the body at all.

heart disease, dude

[Axe]

heart disease, dude
You don't even know what that is, you turd-eating cro magnon.

[DoctorP]

You don't even know what that is, you turd-eating cro magnon.

you kiss your mom with that mouth?

mouth breather.

[BarberSchool]

Why do niccas like Laimbeer absolutely LOVE BEING HATED ????

WHY GOD ? Tell us why!

[warriorfan]

Why do niccas like Laimbeer absolutely LOVE BEING HATED ????

WHY GOD ? Tell us why!

He’s like a non handicapped version of Simon

[knicksman]

Everyone already knows that young players struggle alongside lebron - his style prevents their growth and turns them into spot-up shooters.. Lebron infact needs ready-made veteran teammates that already know how to play.

^^^ this is common knowledge, yet one of the biggest myths in sports history is that lebron makes teammates better (he obviously doesn't) and Jordan doesn't make guys better (he infact did).

The stats show this clearly

only MJ had to grow single-digit rookies to all-star caliber to win (Pip, Grant, BJ), while most of lebron's teammates don't see growth alongside him and must sacrifice their game to play with him..

I understand that he made Mo Williams better and maybe even Kyrie, but there's more cases of teammates declining alongside him, and him needing replacements or new scenery instead.

MJ sacrificed his game to fit into a system that allowed everyone to thrive (team elevation and teammate stat growth), while lebron's teamnates must sacrifice their game and stats to play with him.

So why do people say lebron makes teammates better?... Is it the assists? Because even that's wrong...

MJ averaged 6.6 apg from 85-93', and Lebron averaged 7.2 from 06-16', so they both averaged near-equal assists through 3 rings each.. for their careers, it's common knowledge that MJ averaged 5-6 apg (only 1-2 less then lebron), including an 8 apg season and 11 apg Finals.. When MJ played PG for 24 games in 1989, the Associated Press said he was already equal or better than Magic/Isiah/Stockton after 5 only games at the new position.

But the personal assists are irrelevant because Lebron's monopolization of the playmaking results in low TEAM assists - the common thread in lebron's last 4 Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists, whereas MJ's game resulted in higher assist teams where everyone is assisting, not just 1 guy.


just like it takes higher IQ to identify whether a friend is fake or not. Same is true in basketball, It takes higher IQ to identify a true unselfish and fake one. Just because you have high APG doesnt mean youre unselfish. Thats why low IQs(ESPN and its sheeps) fall for lebron just like they gave harden and westbrook 1 MVP each while the high IQs know that these guys are selfish thats why they are underachieving right now.

[G0ATbe]

MJ Stan’s acting like he said he’s not top 10:lol. There’s no shame in being 2nd place fellas.

[warriorfan]

MJ Stan’s acting like he said he’s not top 10:lol. There’s no shame in being 2nd place fellas.

Of course a LeBron stan would say this. :roll:

[knicksman]

and let me ask you this - is it better to be 100/100 and undefeated against the top 100 womens teams in the world (you're an NBA player)


or is it better to be the best player amongst ALL the men in the world? meaning your peers, your contemporary competitors?




yet you respect lebrons rings like winning with superteams is the same as winning without one. LOL Be consistent red or just stick to trolling. You clearly dont have the IQ for serious discussion.

[G0ATbe]

I’m a Kobe stan:confusedshrug:

[red1]

yet you respect lebrons rings like winning with superteams is the same as winning without one. LOL Be consistent red or just stick to trolling. You clearly dont have the IQ for serious discussion.

welcome back knickswoman.



another rat that's been slayed. winning with superteams my ass. :oldlol:

[knicksman]

welcome back knickswoman.



another rat that's been slayed. winning with superteams my ass. :oldlol:

only low standards aka trolls respect ringchasers rings.

[red1]

only low standards aka trolls respect ringchasers rings.

knickswoman.

[knicksman]

knickswoman.

cheapskate

[Whoah10115]

yet you respect lebrons rings like winning with superteams is the same as winning without one. LOL Be consistent red or just stick to trolling. You clearly dont have the IQ for serious discussion.

Problem is you said playing defense is for role players and is evidence of a lack in pride.

[RogueBorg]

“The dirty play and the flagrant fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct, hopefully that will be eliminated from the game with them gone.” He added, “I think people are happy the game will get back to a clean game.”
Michael Jordan, post-game


Earlier in the series Jordan stated he felt the Pistons style of play was bad for basketball. No wonder those guys hate each other.

As Thomas noted during a 2013 recording of NBA TV’s Open Court, “They (the Bulls) were up 3-0, and then, they had this press conference just totally disrespecting us as champions.”

[knicksman]

Problem is you said playing defense is for role players and is evidence of a lack in pride.

jordan is one of the best but is he the 1st option in defense? Pippen and rodman are the 1st and 2nd options just like kawhi is the 2nd option to gasol. Its just basketball 101. You dont want your general in the frontlines or else your whole army is dead once the general dies.

[red1]

jordan is one of the best but is he the 1st option in defense? Pippen and rodman are the 1st and 2nd options just like kawhi is the 2nd option to gasol. Its just basketball 101. You dont want your general in the frontlines or else your whole army is dead once the general dies.

I'll go with big bill laimbeer over knickswoman, no doubt

[knicksman]

im a cheapskate
i know

[3ball]

.
From the Ringer (https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2020/3/11/21174817/michael-jordan-triple-doubles-1989-chicago-bulls):

"The Bulls ran into a deeper, tougher Pistons team— one that believed a version of Jordan intent on facilitating was a less daunting foe than one fully committed to scoring."



Post-elimination game interviews in the Chicago Tribune:

After Jordan scorched the Pistons for 46 points in Game 3, [Isiah] Thomas and fellow guard Joe Dumars made a suggestion to coach Chuck Daly, and its concept was starkly simple. Let’s not let Jordan beat us again, they said. Let’s take a chance on the other guys beating us.

“The more you make him think as a point guard—that’s important: ‘as a point guard’—the more beneficial it is for us,” explained Thomas, himself a point guard. …


^^^ the Pistons wanted MJ dominating the ball and wasting time, not an assassin scorer off-ball..

It's a fallacy that having one guy dribble and assist others is the best way to play and even pros often think it's the best way to play.. But here we see Isiah spill the beans - possibly unknowingly - the Bulls were actually tougher with MJ as an off-ball scorer rather than a ball-dominator that averaged a lot of assists.. obviously, the off-ball assassin facilitates a more effective ball-movement brand as an assist target - this ball movement ultimately gets better looks for everybody and higher team assists than 1 guy dribbling and getting all the assists

[Mr Feeny]

Laimbeer?

Is this supposed to be a joke? This is a guy who watched MJ sweep and end his Detroit dynasty and actuate the Pistons players to leave the court like a bunch of losers which shaped the way that team was thought of in later years.

Jordan severely impacted each of those Pistons' legacies. Not only is he regarded as the best player ever and the Bulls as the greatest dynasty ever, but that Detroit team (which featured 27 and 29 year olds Thomas, Dumars, and Rodman in their primes and expected to dominate the basketball scene for years to come) had their dynasty stopped dead in its tracks, as they were supplanted by Jordan's Bulls. They became an afterthought, while the Bulls took all the plaudits.

Jordan haunts their dreams and you can tell how much anger imbues their existence, in every interview done with one of those former Pistons.

Why on earth would I or anyone care what Bill Laimbeer of all peoppe has to see about the guy who lives rent free in his head and in the heads of each of his former teammates?

[red1]

.
From the Ringer (https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2020/3/11/21174817/michael-jordan-triple-doubles-1989-chicago-bulls):

"The Bulls ran into a deeper, tougher Pistons team— one that believed a version of Jordan intent on facilitating was a less daunting foe than one fully committed to scoring."



Post-elimination game interviews in the Chicago Tribune:

After Jordan scorched the Pistons for 46 points in Game 3, [Isiah] Thomas and fellow guard Joe Dumars made a suggestion to coach Chuck Daly, and its concept was starkly simple. Let’s not let Jordan beat us again, they said. Let’s take a chance on the other guys beating us.

“The more you make him think as a point guard—that’s important: ‘as a point guard’—the more beneficial it is for us,” explained Thomas, himself a point guard. …


^^^ the Pistons wanted MJ dominating the ball and wasting time, not an assassin scorer off-ball..

It's a fallacy that having one guy dribble and assist others is the best way to play and even pros often think it's the best way to play.. But here we see Isiah spill the beans - possibly unknowingly - the Bulls were actually tougher with MJ as an off-ball scorer rather than a ball-dominator that averaged a lot of assists.. obviously, the off-ball assassin facilitates a more effective ball-movement brand as an assist target - this ball movement ultimately gets better looks for everybody and higher team assists than 1 guy dribbling and getting all the assists
you dont even realize how retarded you are. you're complaining and posting about the bulls running into a deeper team - so you praise jordan when he loses but kobe or lebron or any other player is a choker the years that they lose :oldlol:


I dont know if Im making this up let me know if I am - I think you even called kobe a choker the years that he didnt make the playoffs or lost with scrubs before he got pau :oldlol:



according to you jordan lost because he was too balldominant -so why didnt he pass the ball more and let his bulls teammates ISO? wouldnt he have a better chance to win? talent doesn't play a role remember?


the pistons didnt win because of superior talent- they won because jordan took too many shots pounded the rock too long and was too selfish playing to rack up stats instead of playing team basketball. 1-9 is a black mark on his career.

[Bronbron23]

MJ’s stats were not required. Bulls won 50+ games without MJ

This is why i think some bron stans dont know jack about ball. Bulls still managed to win 50 games because of their coach and system. If bron was on the spurs with greg pop along side another top 10 player the spurs and pop would still win 50 plus games if bron left. If you deny this your an idiot.

Plus is the goal to win 50 plus games or to win a chip? They needed mj to win it all so id say his skill were definitely required.

[FireDavidKahn]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV2Sog5XkAE4uLk?format=jpg&name=360x360


Check please.

Yes sir!

IN MJ's day they literally let senior citizens play.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV1-tB6WkAMcqxz?format=jpg&name=small

[AlternativeAcc.]

MJ came along in a time where the best athletes were flocking to baseball and football over basketball.

Nowadays, the best athletes flock to basketball so the competition is probably 10x that of Jordan's time

He couldn't cut it in baseball which is where the elite athletes were going.

[FromDowntown]

MJ Stan’s acting like he said he’s not top 10:lol. There’s no shame in being 2nd place fellas.

Youd' think MJ fans would be used to 2nd place by now but they cant accept it yet.

Something like 12 players have six rings
ONE player has 6,000 points. ONE player has 6911 points

MJ #2nd place in everything these days.

[FromDowntown]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV2Sog5XkAE4uLk?format=jpg&name=360x360



IN MJ's day they literally let senior citizens play.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV1-tB6WkAMcqxz?format=jpg&name=small

Tough physical era. Wow very tough

[FromDowntown]

Laimbeer?

Is this supposed to be a joke? This is a guy who watched MJ sweep and end his Detroit dynasty and actuate the Pistons players to leave the court like a bunch of losers which shaped the way that team was thought of in later years.

Jordan severely impacted each of those Pistons' legacies. Not only is he regarded as the best player ever and the Bulls as the greatest dynasty ever, but that Detroit team (which featured 27 and 29 year olds Thomas, Dumars, and Rodman in their primes and expected to dominate the basketball scene for years to come) had their dynasty stopped dead in its tracks, as they were supplanted by Jordan's Bulls. They became an afterthought, while the Bulls took all the plaudits.

Jordan haunts their dreams and you can tell how much anger imbues their existence, in every interview done with one of those former Pistons.

Why on earth would I or anyone care what Bill Laimbeer of all peoppe has to see about the guy who lives rent free in his head and in the heads of each of his former teammates?

Pistons hating MJ is like Lebron hating Demar

Both got eliminated by the guy three years in a row

Pistons beat Mike 3 straight years
LBJ beat Demar DeRozan 3 straight years

Try again

[LostCause]

Pistons hating MJ is like Lebron hating Demar

Both got eliminated by the guy three years in a row

Pistons beat Mike 3 straight years
LBJ beat Demar DeRozan 3 straight years

Try again

By that logic, Curry must love LeBron since he went 3-1 against him in the Finals

[FromDowntown]

By that logic, Curry must love LeBron since he went 3-1 against him in the Finals

BronBron23 alert :lol #AltExposed

[LostCause]

BronBron23 alert :lol #AltExposed

I guarantee a woman feels better than your hand

[Axe]

Youd' think MJ fans would be used to 2nd place by now but they cant accept it yet.

Something like 12 players have six rings
ONE player has 6,000 points. ONE player has 6911 points

MJ #2nd place in everything these days.
What happened to your SpaceJam2 and TheCorporation accounts?

[SpaceJam]

I believe this.

If Laimbeer had any agenda he would have put MJ as the GOAT, just to prop up himself/Bad-BoyPistons the whole 'We beat the GOAT" narrative would have only aided their legacy. But major props to Bill for putting aside any personal agendas and giving us a raw, unbiased opinion on who is the GOAT

[FromDowntown]

What happened to your SpaceJam2 and TheCorporation accounts?

We are doing fine thank you.

[Axe]

We are doing fine thank you.
Lol that's the spirit.

[FromDowntown]

Lol that's the spirit.

Blessed. And how are all of your accounts?

[Axe]

Blessed. And how are all of your accounts?
Alive and kicking ofc. This the only one i have here.

[3ball]

.
MJ was considered a better point guard than Magic/Isiah/Stockton, so everyone does MJ disservice by forgetting that he was a great passer



Associated Press, April 9, 1989

"In just 16 games at point guard, Jordan has gone from the league’s leading scorer the last two seasons to being lumped with Johnson, John Stockton of Utah and Isiah Thomas of Detroit as the elite among NBA point guards. Jordan may already be the best of the group."

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2020/3/11/21174817/michael-jordan-triple-doubles-1989-chicago-bulls

https://ballislife.com/michael-jordan-could-of-been-the-best-point-guard-ever-want-proof/


scoring is the most important thing, so he did that more because scoring is what wins

But when he played PG and he was better than Magic at it

[Axe]

.
MJ was considered a better point guard than Magic/Isiah/Stockton, so Laimbeer and everyone does MJ a tremendous disservice by forgetting that he was a great passer



Associated Press, April 9, 1989

"In just 16 games at point guard, Jordan has gone from the league’s leading scorer the last two seasons to being lumped with Johnson, John Stockton of Utah and Isiah Thomas of Detroit as the elite among NBA point guards. Jordan may already be the best of the group."

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2020/3/11/21174817/michael-jordan-triple-doubles-1989-chicago-bulls

https://ballislife.com/michael-jordan-could-of-been-the-best-point-guard-ever-want-proof/


People simply forget that MJ was a great passer because scoring is the most important thing and he was goat at it

You will never convince them.