Ball movement is overrated

[Vino24]

3ball, if ball movement is so important then why in 2016 did a 14th ranked team in assists beat thr 1st ranked team in assists in the finals? I keep hearing how detrimental LeBron’s time of possession and lack of ball movement is. :confusedshrug:

[warriorfan]

3ball, if ball movement is so important then why in 2016 did a 14th ranked team in assists beat thr 1st ranked team in assists in the finals? I keep hearing how detrimental LeBron’s time of possession and lack of ball movement is. :confusedshrug:

Because Steph Curry was injured, Adam Silver went back after the game and upgraded a foul to flagrant to get Draymond Green suspended, Andrew Bogut got taken out, and Iguodala’s back was so messed up he could hardly make it up and down the court. That team was not representative of the team that had the most assists in the league and won 73 games.

[3ball]

3/9 proves my point, along with being a perennial underdog in the championship

So ball-dominance is an underdog and mostly loses to ball-movement

But look, even the 10-72 clippers won 10 games... No one loses every time.. lebron was a 2-1 underdog and that works out because he won 1 of 3 Finals

[red1]

wrong. ballmovement is very important.


the mistake 3ball makes is that he acts like it is a substitute for talent - in reality talent is what wins in the NBA


you can also lose if you have talent but if you dont have talent then you will always lose


3ball acts like a womens team with good chemistry can beat a mens team that goes 1on1 every time. he's obviously wrong.


the bulls were a 50 win team without mike. that's talent.

[3ball]

wrong. ballmovement is very important.


the mistake 3ball makes is that he acts like it is a substitute for talent - in reality talent is what wins in the NBA


you can also lose if you have talent but if you dont have talent then you will always lose


3ball acts like a womens team with good chemistry can beat a mens team that goes 1on1 every time. he's obviously wrong.


the bulls were a 50 win team without mike. that's talent.
False

Less talented teams win all the time like 2011 and 2014... Or 2004 and 2010...

Lebron had sufficient talent in 11/14/17 and should've won.. maybe even 15' too because if 39% and bad defense went 6 games, then good defense and shooting probably wins

[red1]

3/9 proves my point, along with being a perennial underdog in the championship

So ball-dominance is an underdog and mostly loses to ball-movement and is

But look, even the 10-72 clippers won 10 games... No one loses every time.. lebron was a 2-1 underdog and that works out because he won 1 of 3 Finals

your theories were all wrong. meanwhile some of us were right about everything. it was very obvious too, nothing to brag about.


lebron lost the chance to compete for the championship 4 years of his prime. 2 years due to injuries (2014, 2015) and two years due to kd creating the most stacked team of all-time (2017, 2018)


still came away with three rings. thats not called being a loser, thats called carrying a franchise deep into the playoffs.


meanwhile you argued that mo williams was a superior basketball talent to scottie pippen. you said mike won without any talent.


you said lebron's style would never lead a team to a championship. you were wrong three times.


you're gonna bend the knee my boy. if you were honest at all you'd already acknowledge that you have no reason not to agree with me and rank him top-5 at the very least by your own criteria - NO way he isnt top 10


and what kind of moron calls magic a bum and scottie a fake allstar. you're clueless bro.

[red1]

False

Less talented teams win all the time like 2011 and 2014... Or 2004 and 2010...

Lebron had sufficient talent in 11/14/17 and should've won.. maybe even 15' too because if 39% and bad defense went 6 games, then good defense and shooting probably wins

you are always wrong. how did the less talented team win in 2010 or 2014? do you even know anything about basketball? this is why I troll you kid.

[3ball]

your theories were all wrong. meanwhile some of us were right about everything. it was very obvious too, nothing to brag about.


lebron lost the chance to compete for the championship 4 years of his prime. 2 years due to injuries (2014, 2015) and two years due to kd creating the most stacked team of all-time (2017, 2018)


still came away with three rings. thats not called being a loser, thats called carrying a franchise deep into the playoffs.


meanwhile you argued that mo williams was a superior basketball talent to scottie pippen. you said mike won without any talent.


you said lebron's style would never lead a team to a championship. you were wrong three times.


you're gonna bend the knee my boy. if you were honest at all you'd already acknowledge that you have no reason not to agree with me and rank him top-5 at the very least by your own criteria - NO way he isnt top 10


and what kind of moron calls magic a bum and scottie a fake allstar. you're clueless bro.
Lebron quits when he finds out his mommy is having sex with a man

So he's weak mentally

Skill-wise, he has weak jumpshooting skill, which gets exploited

He needs long dribbling to get stats, which is also exploitable

And he's choked a few times, thus getting the label of choker

He simply has many weaknesses while MJ had none

[warriorfan]

wrong. ballmovement is very important.


the mistake 3ball makes is that he acts like it is a substitute for talent - in reality talent is what wins in the NBA


you can also lose if you have talent but if you dont have talent then you will always lose


3ball acts like a womens team with good chemistry can beat a mens team that goes 1on1 every time. he's obviously wrong.


the bulls were a 50 win team without mike. that's talent.

The lack of ball movement gets sub optimal performance from his very talented teams.

When LeBron joined with Prime D Wade and Chris Bosh and promised all those championships...everyone thought he was right. He performed below expectations. He underachieved. He didn’t optimize the talent on his team.

[red1]

Lebron quits when he finds out his mommy is having sex with a man

So he's weak mentally

Skill-wise, he has weak jumpshooting skill, which gets exploited

He needs long dribbling to get stats, which is also exploitable

And he's choked a few times, thus getting the label of choker

He simply has many weaknesses while MJ had none

perhaps. you might be right.


or perhaps scottie "the tree-trunk pippen" and his 50-win bulls (without mike btw) played a role


perhaps playing relatively weak competition played a role. these teams werent the warriors or spurs, thats for sure.

[red1]

The lack of ball movement gets sub optimal performance from his very talented teams.

When LeBron joined with Prime D Wade and Chris Bosh and promised all those championships...everyone thought he was right. He performed below expectations. He underachieved. He didn’t optimize the talent on his team.

maybe bro.


I think 3 finals MVPs is a somewhat satisfactory result. wouldnt you agree?

[FireDavidKahn]

Because Steph Curry was injured, Adam Silver went back after the game and upgraded a foul to flagrant to get Draymond Green suspended, Andrew Bogut got taken out, and Iguodala’s back was so messed up he could hardly make it up and down the court. That team was not representative of the team that had the most assists in the league and won 73 games.

"Curry was injured"

11 play off games before the finals:

26.7 ppg on 45.8%/40.7%/90.9%
6 rpg
6 apg
2 spg

In the WCF (played every game):

28 ppg on 44.3%/41.6%/88.6%
6 rpg
6 apg
2 spg

Finals (played every game):

22.6 ppg on 40.3%/30%/92.9%
5 rpg
4 apg
1 spg
1 bpg

He wasn't injured at all.

[STATUTORY]

a low iq 3/9 stan would think that

[Bronbron23]

3ball, if ball movement is so important then why in 2016 did a 14th ranked team in assists beat thr 1st ranked team in assists in the finals? I keep hearing how detrimental LeBron’s time of possession and lack of ball movement is. :confusedshrug:

Probably one of the dumbest takes ive ever heard. If anything on and off ball movement is underrated. There's always exceptions like the one you gave but most championship teams moved the ball well. In the last 30 years theres only been a few teams that didnt kove the ball well. Out of 30 chips bron in 2016 and wade in 06 are the only ones i can think of.

[3ball]

"Curry was injured"

11 play off games before the finals:

26.7 ppg on 45.8%/40.7%/90.9%
6 rpg
6 apg
2 spg

In the WCF (played every game):

28 ppg on 44.3%/41.6%/88.6%
6 rpg
6 apg
2 spg

Finals (played every game):

22.6 ppg on 40.3%/30%/92.9%
5 rpg
4 apg
1 spg
1 bpg

He wasn't injured at all.
Brah man... You obviously never picked up a ball in your life

Curry had a surgically-repaired knee that needed rest after the WCF

Instead, he was forced to keep pushing it... It's funny because the 16' Warriors were a drastically injured/suspended team, yet the media acts like only the 19' Warriors were injured - but the 16' Warriors were far more injured (not including KD since he didn't play in 16')

[red1]

Brah man... You obviously never picked up a ball in your life

Curry had a surgically-repaired knee that needed rest after the WCF

werent you trashing curry saying mj is the better shooter when somone compared him to mj?


admittedly it is a terrible comparison comparing curry to the arguable GOAT.

[3ball]

werent you trashing curry saying mj is the better shooter when somone compared him to mj?


admittedly it is a terrible comparison comparing curry to the arguable GOAT.
MJ is a more skilled jumpshooter.. this is true

But Curry is better at stand-still long distance ahots

[red1]

MJ is a more skilled jumpshooter.. this is true

But Curry is better at stand-still long distance ahots

I dont know. I feel like you were arguing something even more ridiculous. something like mj GOAT 3-point shooter. maybe not that bad but close.


even this is pretty bad tbh. curry is the better shooter period. midrange freethrows threes everything.

[Vino24]

MJ is a more skilled jumpshooter.. this is true

But Curry is better at stand-still long distance ahots

Actually Curry is a comparable midrange shooter while being better 3pt shooter and finisher at the rim than MJ. The reason Curry has open looks is because his offball movement is GOAT

[3ball]

Actually Curry is a comparable midrange shooter while being better 3pt shooter and finisher at the rim than MJ. The reason Curry has open looks is because his offball movement is GOAT
Curry can't shoot mid-range

Only open mid-range, which is why his volume is basically nothing

[red1]

Curry can't shoot mid-range

Only open mid-range, which is why his volume is basically nothing

are you retarded? curry's midrange is money. I've seen him hit consistently difficult midrange shots like its nothing. his problem is SIZE he cant get those shots off in the nba against nba wings.


do you know ANYTHING about basketball?

[Wally450]

Idk if 3ball really believes the shit he spews out of his mouth.

[3ball]

are you retarded? curry's midrange is money. I've seen him hit consistently difficult midrange shots like its nothing. his problem is SIZE he cant get those shots off in the nba against nba wings.


do you know ANYTHING about basketball?
If he can't get the shots off, then he can't take contested shots... which is what I said

So we agree.. curry can't get off a lot of mid-range shots, aka can't make contested shots

[red1]

If he can't get the shots off, then he can't take contested shots... which is what I said

So we agree.. curry can't get off a lot of mid-range shots, aka can't make contested shots
dude.


just stop. we're talking about the ability to shoot the ball - curry is a better shooter period. his hand eye co-ordination and consistency might be the best.

its not his fault that he got locked up by 6'10 kevin love. I bet you cant even shoot over someone who's curry's height, 6'3. you probably get your shit packed every time by guys who are 5'10.

[RRR3]

dude.


just stop. we're talking about the ability to shoot the ball - curry is a better shooter period. his hand eye co-ordination and consistency might be the best.

its not his fault that he got locked up by 6'10 kevin love. I bet you cant even shoot over someone who's curry's height, 6'3. you probably get your shit packed every time by guys who are 5'10.
According to 3ball he dunked twice on Zach Randolph and “can score at will” on Raja Bell.


No I’m not making that up.

[red1]

Idk if 3ball really believes the shit he spews out of his mouth.

mj has been steadily sliding down the rankings with every 3ball post.


mike started off at the undisputed #1 position - now he's in a 1a, 1b, 1c scenario.


according to 3ball mike only beat weak competition (who was the best team mike beat? the jazz? surely not the old lakers)


and according to 3ball mike only won with a stacked team (50+ win team with superior chemistry and ball-movement while mike is busy showing us that he's a one-sport athlete scrubbing it up playing baseball)


pretty soon shaq will be breathing down mike's neck. at least shaq showed he can win with two different star shooting guards. mike hasn't proved that he can win without pippen.

[Wally450]

According to 3ball he dunked twice on Zach Randolph and “can score at will” on Raja Bell.


No I’m not making that up.

He actually said 4 times in a row which makes it even more unbelievable. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

He actually said 4 times in a row which makes it even more unbelievable. :oldlol:
Whaaaaat???? Link?

[3ball]

According to 3ball he dunked twice on Zach Randolph and “can score at will” on Raja Bell.


No I’m not making that up.
Both are true except I dunked 4 times on Zach.. in a row.. using the same move (hesitation drive going left)..

he just wasn't quick enough to move his feet.. I destroyed him that game because he started overcompensating to stop my go-to move, which opened up all my other moves

[red1]

According to 3ball he dunked twice on Zach Randolph and “can score at will” on Raja Bell.


No I’m not making that up.


He actually said 4 times in a row which makes it even more unbelievable. :oldlol:

hey man I'm not saying it isnt possible.


I just highly doubt a guy who thinks timofey mozgov and tristan thompson wouldve led the 2015 cavaliers to a championship without lebron's balldominance holding them back - a guy like that who isnt trolling - you just really doubt a guy like that can dribble the ball, let alone get on the same court as a zbo.

[3ball]

I'm actually a pretty good 1-on-1 player

[RRR3]

Both are true except I dunked 4 times on Zach.. in a row.. using the same move (hesitation drive going left)..

he just wasn't quick enough to move his feet.. I destroyed him that game because he started overcompensating to stop my go-to move, which opened up all my other moves
You’ve never met either of those players in your life you liar.

[3ball]

hey man I'm not saying it isnt possible.


I just highly doubt a guy who thinks timofey mozgov and tristan thompson wouldve led the 2015 cavaliers to a championship without lebron's balldominance holding them back - a guy like that who isnt trolling - you just really doubt a guy like that can dribble the ball, let alone get on the same court as a zbo.
Mosgov > any center MJ ever had...

So MJ elevated inferior players without dominating the ball and playing in a system instead.. why can't lebron? Why does his skillset require ball-domination, which prevents ball-movement, aka winning?

[RRR3]

Mozgov is absolutely not better than Bill Cartwright who was a damn good offensive player until MJ ball ruined him.

[red1]

I'm actually a pretty good 1-on-1 player

why'd you choose zach randolph in the story that you made up?



couldnt you have gone with a smaller player and made your story more believable?

[red1]

Mosgov > any center MJ ever had...

So MJ elevated inferior players without dominating the ball and playing in a system instead.. why can't lebron? Why does his skillset require ball-domination, which prevents ball-movement, aka winning?

who cares even if it was true (it isn't).



it doesnt mean that the 2015 cavs wouldve been better off with tristan ****ing thompson and timofey ****ing mozgov ISOing like you tried to argue - another one of your delusions.

[3ball]

until MJ ball ruined him.



Points Per 100 Possessions

88' Cartwright Knicks... 20.5
89' Cartwright Bulls...... 18.6


^^^ minor difference.. So MJ didn't "ruin" him because he was already a 12/7 player by 1989 and was at 0.5 blocks since 86'






Mozgov is absolutely not better than Bill Cartwright who was a damn good offensive player




89' Cartwright... 12/7 and 0.5 blk
10' Shaquille..... 12/7 and 1.5 blk
05' Zydrunas..... 18/9 and 2.5 blk
15' Mozgov........ 11/7 and 1.5 blk


So Lebron had much better rim protection and bigs compared to MJ

He also had more athletic guards (Shumpert, JR, Ray Allen, Hughes) and more defensive rebounders..

for these reasons (better rim protection/bigs, more athletic guards, and more defensive rebounders), his defensive help (team ranking) was often better than MJ's bulls...

[Turbo Slayer]

Everyone watch this. The Cavs without LBJ in the 2015 NBA Finals were iffy to say the least.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b4mlieUbP4

3ball really wants to hand the ball to Delly and Moz. Lol...

[3ball]

Everyone watch this. The Cavs without LBJ in the 2015 NBA Finals were iffy to say the least.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b4mlieUbP4
The Warriors struggled to beat a 1-man team led by Allen Iverson, I mean Lebron

lebron shot 39% and had record ball-domination (12.0 min per game) - it was Iverson ball-dominance and inefficiency on steroids (no pun intended)

The 15' Finals (where they almost lost to Iverson), along with 16' and 19' prove the pre-KD Warriors are easy to beat by any Finals team

[red1]

The Warriors struggled to beat a 1-man team led by Allen Iverson, I mean Lebron

lebron shot 39% and had record ball-domination (12.0 min per game) - it was Iverson ball-dominance and inefficiency on steroids (no pun intended)

The 15' Finals (where they almost lost to Iverson), along with 16' and 19' prove the pre-KD Warriors are easy to beat by any Finals team

you know that you're a joke right? know that you make the most irrational arguments ever right? :oldlol:


just because lebron shot the ball like shit IT DOES NOT MEAN that timofey mozgov and tristan ISOing would've helped the cavs win - like you literally just tried to argue earlier today.


you said "lebrons balldominance held the cavs back - they'd be better off with mosgov (that's how you spelled it) and the other cavs ISOing"


how many times you been hit on the head bro?

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SecondhandNewBeagle-size_restricted.gif
https://media1.tenor.com/images/f7f0c431dd9f719b3e9cc64f4e5da3f3/tenor.gif






and you're garbage at basketball stop lying. :oldlol:



dunked on zbo 4 times my ass :roll:

[3ball]

you know that you're a joke right? know that you make the most irrational arguments ever right? :oldlol:


just because lebron shot the ball like shit IT DOES NOT MEAN that timofey mozgov and tristan ISOing would've helped the cavs win



Of course not - we already agreed that if Lebron himself just shoots 50% against the wide open single-coverage and iso's he got, while not letting Iggy win MVP - Cavs win easily

[red1]

Of course not - we already agreed that if Lebron himself just shoots 50% against the wide open single-coverage and iso's he got, while not letting Iggy win MVP - Cavs win easily

thats not what you said.



you said lebrons balldominant style held the 2015 cavs back.


you said they'd have a better chance to win if mozgov and TT got more ISO touches.



which is why we say that you're insane.


you're a lot of fun but you're also insane.

[3ball]

you said lebrons balldominant style held the 2015 cavs back.



It did

the Cavs would've won if lebron doesn't imitate Iverson with the bad shooting and ball-domination, but they also would've had a better chance if they were a 70-win juggernaut that lost Kyrie, instead of a 50-win, underachiever that lost Kyrie.

the 15' Cavs were the league favorite in the pre-season and pre-playoffs before the Kyrie injury, and statisticians said they were among the greatest assemblages of talent ever .. so they should've won 60 or 70 games and been a juggernaut.. that would've made the odds better without Kyrie...

Essentially, Lebron would've won by imitating MJ instead of Iverson, and that imitation includes being a 60 or 70-win juggernaut like the team was expected to do.. these 60-70 wins would've required a different style of play that allows ball movement.. ball movement (team assists) has always gotten better looks for role players than 1 guy dominating the ball (individual assists)

[red1]

It did

the Cavs would've won if lebron doesn't imitate Iverson with the bad shooting and ball-domination, but they also would've had a better chance if they were a 70-win juggernaut that lost Kyrie, instead of a 50-win, underachiever that lost Kyrie.

the 15' Cavs were the league favorite in the pre-season and pre-playoffs before the Kyrie injury, and statisticians said they were among the greatest assemblages of talent ever .. so they should've won 60 or 70 games and been a juggernaut.. that would've made the odds better without Kyrie... Essentially, Lebron imitating MJ instead of Iverson wins it, and that imitation includes winning 60 or 70 like the team was expected to do.
this is why you get trolled kid. you are SUCH a disgusting pajama-wearing fanboy. :oldlol:


and you still haven't explained how the legendary tristan thompson timofey mosgov ISOs wouldve improved the cavs odds at winning a ring.


you said they would be better off with more TT and mozgov ISOs - how? explain.


I honestly would LOVE to watch a series of MJ going 1 on 5 against the 2015 warriors. it would be a vintage 1-9 series. :oldlol:

[red1]

"jordan scored on craig ehlo and pippen was a fake allstar so that means jordan would score 50 points in a series on iggy and he'd beat the warriors going 1 on 5."



that's what we're doing? :oldlol:

[3ball]

"jordan scored on craig ehlo and pippen was a fake allstar so that means jordan would score 50 points in a series on iggy and he'd beat the warriors going 1 on 5."



that's what we're doing? :oldlol:
89' Jordan averaged 40/8/6 against Ron Harper, who was the starter and played 37 mpg, compared to bench player Ehlo's 25 mpg

And the entire point is that no coach could play MJ straight-up like the Warriors played lebron - so while lebron's weak shooting and long dribbles were preferred over doubling and facing ball movement, ball movement is actually preferred over a Jordan iso because it was too deadly (quick-hitting, efficient, and a few in a row gets the whole team going)

[warriorfan]

Brah man... You obviously never picked up a ball in your life

Curry had a surgically-repaired knee that needed rest after the WCF

Instead, he was forced to keep pushing it... It's funny because the 16' Warriors were a drastically injured/suspended team, yet the media acts like only the 19' Warriors were injured - but the 16' Warriors were far more injured (not including KD since he didn't play in 16')

This. Re aggravation from coming back too soon from a serious knee injury and then playing hardly on it during playoff overtime games.

[red1]

89' Jordan averaged 40/8/6 against Ron Harper, who was the starter and played 37 mpg, compared to bench player Ehlo's 25 mpg

And the entire point is that no coach could play MJ straight-up like the Warriors played lebron - so while lebron's weak shooting and long dribbles were preferred over doubling and facing ball movement, ball movement is actually preferred over a Jordan iso because it was too deadly (quick-hitting, efficient, and a few in a row gets the whole team going)

great. I'm sure I'll watch some of that series again one of these days. I'm not going to trash ron harper he was a great defender.


that still doesnt explain how mj will beat the 2015 warriors by giving more touches to timofey mozgov and tristan thompson - so they can ISO and carry the team to a championship.

[3ball]

that still doesnt explain how mj will beat the 2015 warriors by giving more touches to timofey mozgov and tristan thompson - so they can ISO and carry the team to a championship.




The Cavs would've had a better chance if they were a 70-win juggernaut that lost Kyrie, instead of a 50-win underachiever that lost Kyrie.

the 15' Cavs were the league favorite in the pre-season and pre-playoffs before the Kyrie injury, and statisticians said they were among the greatest assemblages of talent ever.. so they should've won 60 or 70 games and been a juggernaut.. that would've made the odds better without Kyrie...

Essentially, Lebron would've won by imitating MJ instead of Iverson, and that imitation includes being a 60 or 70-win juggernaut like the team was expected to do..

However, these 60-70 wins would've required a different style of play that allows ball movement.. ball movement (team assists) has always gotten better looks for role players than 1 guy dominating the ball (individual assists)

[red1]

The Cavs would've had a better chance if they were a 70-win juggernaut that lost Kyrie, instead of a 50-win underachiever that lost Kyrie.

the 15' Cavs were the league favorite in the pre-season and pre-playoffs before the Kyrie injury, and statisticians said they were among the greatest assemblages of talent ever.. so they should've won 60 or 70 games and been a juggernaut.. that would've made the odds better without Kyrie...

Essentially, Lebron would've won by imitating MJ instead of Iverson, and that imitation includes being a 60 or 70-win juggernaut like the team was expected to do..

However, these 60-70 wins would've required a different style of play that allows ball movement.. ball movement (team assists) has always gotten better looks for role players than 1 guy dominating the ball (individual assists)

dude you're still not explaining how mike would've led the cavs to a championship by having tristan thompson and mozgov ISO.


you literally said thats what it would've taken to win the championship. and that they didnt win because lebron was too balldominant.


HOW will more tristan thompson and mozgov ISOs win the cavs the championship - like you claimed?


HOW.


you obviously know something that we dont know.

[3ball]

dude you're still not explaining how mike would've led the cavs to a championship by having tristan thompson and mozgov ISO.


you literally said thats what it would've taken to win the championship. and that they didnt win because lebron was too balldominant.


HOW will more tristan thompson and mozgov ISOs win the cavs the championship - like you claimed?


HOW.


you obviously know something that we dont know.
It's almost like you just learned the game yesterday and need basketball 101

No problem I got you

Why do Mosgov and Tristan have to iso?.. it's called ball movement.. Mosgov and Tristan don't have to iso any more than Kerr or Cartwright did.. ball movement has always gotten better looks for role players then 1 player dominating the ball in the halfcourt

That's actually the point of ball movement - to avoid an iso

[RRR3]

It's almost like you just learned the game yesterday and need basketball 101

No problem I got you

Why do Mosgov and Tristan have to iso?.. it's called ball movement.. Mosgov and Tristan don't have to iso any more than Kerr or Cartwright did.. ba movement has always gotten better looks for role players then 1 player dominating the ball in the halfcourt
We've already established MJ ruined Cartwright as seen by his shocking decline in efficiency once he joined the Bulls. Meanwhile, LeBron made Mozgov look good.

[Vino24]

3ball actually believes the Cavs would have won more had the ball been taken out of a great ball handlers hands and put into a far worse one Thompson and Mozgov :oldlol::oldlol::oldlol:

[3ball]

We've already established MJ ruined Cartwright as seen by his shocking decline in efficiency once he joined the Bulls. Meanwhile, LeBron made Mozgov look good.
Okay, point lebron

Now should we keep going down the list or do you concede early to save time?

It's up to you

[red1]

It's almost like you just learned the game yesterday and need basketball 101

No problem I got you

Why do Mosgov and Tristan have to iso?.. it's called ball movement.. Mosgov and Tristan don't have to iso any more than Kerr or Cartwright did.. ball movement has always gotten better looks for role players then 1 player dominating the ball in the halfcourt

actually no you're the one that's been wrong about everything. I've been saying the same exact shit for years. its very bland to read Im sure.


the reason I keep asking you the same question is because the answer is obvious and because you're not answering - of course you wouldnt answer honestly, the truth is in direct conflict with your agenda. and your answers and explanations are idiotic.


the CORRECT answer is that more mozgov and tristan thompon ISOs would NOT help the cavs. it would make them even easier to guard because those guys cant do shit with the ball - at least if lebron or a wing player has the ball these guys can crash the glass after a missed shot or benefit from a pass if their man helps on a drive.


the reason the cavs lost is because they simply did NOT HAVE THE TALENT.


or better yet, perhaps more accurately, they did not have THE BODIES. it was one of the most depleted teams to ever make the finals.


I dont give a **** what you fantasize about - the cavs were going to lose that series whether you slot in MJ or any other player in their absolute athletic prime. every player including MJ wouldve started wearing down as the series went on and the warriors kept bringing in fresh rested player after fresh player, all while you're fielding a 6 man rotation.



you think like a scrub bro. if your game is anything like your basketball IQ then I can guarantee that you are a complete scrub.

[3ball]

more mozgov and tristan thompon ISOs would NOT help the cavs.


.
Only you are saying Mosgov and tristan should iso

I'm saying they should move the ball.. Mosgov and Tristan don't have to iso any more than Kerr or Cartwright did.. ball movement has always gotten better looks for role players then 1 player dominating the ball in the halfcourt

The ball movement would've made the Cavs a 60-70 win juggernaut before the Kyrie injury - this better brand of ball along with MJ playing like MJ instead of a bad defensive Iverson - wins it

[red1]

Only you are saying Mosgov and tristan should iso

I'm saying they should move the ball.. Mosgov and Tristan don't have to iso any more than Kerr or Cartwright did.. ball movement has always gotten better looks for role players then 1 player dominating the ball in the halfcourt

The ball movement would've made the Cavs a 60-70 win juggernaut before the Kyrie injury - this better brand of ball coupled with MJ playing like MJ instead of Iverson with bad defense - wins it
Im not going to waste my time pulling up your shitty post - you said lebrons ball dominance held the cavs back and that they would be better off with other players getting the chance to go ISO


in reality the fact that the ball was in lebrons hands probably limited turnovers and gave them their best shot


yeah Im saying tristan and mozgov because they're probably the best options - but it still WOULD NOT do what you claim. aka win them the series.


just admit that you're wrong.

[3ball]

Im not going to waste my time pulling up your shitty post - you said lebrons ball dominance held the cavs back and that they would be better off with other players getting the chance to go ISO


in reality the fact that the ball was in lebrons hands probably limited turnovers and gave them their best shot


yeah Im saying tristan and mozgov because they're probably the best options - but it still WOULD NOT do what you claim. aka win them the series.


just admit that you're wrong.
I never said other players should iso

You have bad reading comp so you keep revisiting debunked arguments you made earlier

i just said to move the ball, which always gets better looks for role players.. this would take the ball out of lebron's hands, but don't misinterpret that as me saying others should iso... No, just move the ball

Again, a better brand and lebron playing like MJ instead of iverson wins it

[red1]

I never said other players should iso

You have bad reading comp so you keep revisiting debunked arguments you made earlier

i just said to move the ball, which always gets better looks for role players.. this would take the ball out of lebron's hands, but don't misinterpret that as me saying others should iso... No, just move the ball

Again, a better brand and lebron playing like MJ instead of iverson wins it

actually no I've been very reasonable with you even though you are completely irrational.


I do appreciate you though - its not a fake compliment - because Im a fan of greatness aka ray allen mj lebron kobe (in that order)


I dont think I could meet a bigger hater than you though so you create balance and keep us sharp - for every nick wright that exists there must be a 3ball otherwise the universe will stop working.


thats probably how coronvirus started. too many nick wrights on this earth so nature started pushing back.



so in other words if you're bending the knee and saying top 11 or top 9 or whatever - then we can safely slide him up 5-10 spots on the tier list when lebron retires soon and thats the real GOAT list.

[LAmbruh]

Red1 putting on a clinic


easy work :applause:

[Bronbron23]

3ball actually believes the Cavs would have won more had the ball been taken out of a great ball handlers hands and put into a far worse one Thompson and Mozgov :oldlol::oldlol::oldlol: Not sure what 3bsll said but yes bron would of won more if he had a great coach that could get him to buy into playing within a system with more movement. it dosnt mean you totally take the ball out of brons hands. Hes still gonna have the ball more than anyone. Just learn to play off ball also and get a little more movement. This shouldn't even be arguable tbh.

[RRR3]

Not sure what 3bsll said but yes bron would of won more if he had a great coach that could get him to buy into playing within a system with more movement. it dosnt mean you totally take the ball out of brons hands. Hes still gonna have the ball more than anyone. Just learn to play off ball also and get a little more movement. This shouldn't even be arguable tbh.
He literally did this in Miami and 3ball never acknowledges it.

[tpols]

Not sure what 3bsll said but yes bron would of won more if he had a great coach that could get him to buy into playing within a system with more movement. it dosnt mean you totally take the ball out of brons hands. Hes still gonna have the ball more than anyone. Just learn to play off ball also and get a little more movement. This shouldn't even be arguable tbh.

this theory was proven totally bunk in the 2nd cleveland stint when he rejected Blat's ball movement based princeton offense.

the'res a million links to articles on it with a simple google search.

the simple fact of the matter is Lebron grew up in AAU culture and went straight from it to the pros. He had no respect for advanced coaching philosophies or direction.

MJ otoh had to go through dean smith and UNC and learn to play the right way to earn his stripes.

[DoctorP]

3ball, if ball movement is so important then why in 2016 did a 14th ranked team in assists beat thr 1st ranked team in assists in the finals? I keep hearing how detrimental LeBron’s time of possession and lack of ball movement is. :confusedshrug:

OP has failed because in 2013 one of the all-time best ball-movement teams beat one of the all-time best iso teams.

[Turbo Slayer]

Here is a video of LeBron torching the Spurs and Pop with his 3 point shot...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKZIiLhLh4w

Moments of LeBron playing off ball...

0:39 <- Post move

0:43

0:50

1:05

Cool stuff.

[Bronbron23]

He literally did this in Miami and 3ball never acknowledges it. yes he did and he had more success there than anywhere. Its also why his stats were lower than when he was in cle playing a more ball dominant role.

[Bronbron23]

this theory was proven totally bunk in the 2nd cleveland stint when he rejected Blat's ball movement based princeton offense.

the'res a million links to articles on it with a simple google search.

the simple fact of the matter is Lebron grew up in AAU culture and went straight from it to the pros. He had no respect for advanced coaching philosophies or direction.

MJ otoh had to go through dean smith and UNC and learn to play the right way to earn his stripes.
So because he didn't want to play in a system where he wasnt in total control its debunked? He only lost with blat in 15 because he lost love and kyrie. Even with that blat won 2 games agsinst one of the best teams ever. Blatt easily wins in 2015 eith a healthy roster

[Axe]

So because he didn't want to play in a system where he wasnt in total control its debunked? He only lost with blat in 15 because he lost love and kyrie. Even with that blat won 2 games agsinst one of the best teams ever. Blatt easily wins in 2015 eith a healthy roster
Yeah, blatt seemed to be a better coach than lue, who sucks at coaching defense. They should have kept him.

[Turbo Slayer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQh0eg4FysM

Examples of off ball movement by LBJ...

0:22<- Catch and shoot

0:32

0:40

3:45<- Catch and shoot

5:00<- Catch and shoot

LeBron looks way better when he plays off ball

[Bronbron23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQh0eg4FysM

Examples of off ball movement by LBJ...

0:22<- Catch and shoot

0:32

0:40

3:45<- Catch and shoot

5:00<- Catch and shoot

LeBron looks way better when he plays off ball

Yup. Everyone is better when they're more versatile. Off ball movement is a huge part of the game. Not sure why he got away from it.

[Bronbron23]

Yeah, blatt seemed to be a better coach than lue, who sucks at coaching defense. They should have kept him.

Yeah. Im not even saying blatt was better but he definitely wasn't any worse. Bron obviously likes getting those crazy stats and feels hes good enough to sacrifice movement to get the crazy stats and win at the same time. Ill give him credit hes one of the few players that has won that way. I just think he could of won alot more if he was willing to play more within a system

[RRR3]

^He had some of his best statistical years in Miami lmao

His assists were down mostly because he didn't have the ball nearly as much.

[Turbo Slayer]

In 2013-14, catch and shoot accounted for 12.4% of his game so he was using it regularly. The crazy part is that he shot 60 EFG% and 44 3P% which is insane! :biggums:

Most of his game was surrounded with 0 dribbles aka 33% of his game...

he shot 71 EFG% and 43 3P% on 6 FGA which is marvelous efficiency...

I do notice as the years go on LeBron wasn't using it much aka catch and shoot and less dribbles...

[Bronbron23]

^He had some of his best statistical years in Miami lmao

His assists were down mostly because he didn't have the ball nearly as much.
If you look at his post season stats he scored less and had less assists in the miami run compared to his Cleveland run after that. What are u talking about dude?

[Axe]

Yeah. Im not even saying blatt was better but he definitely wasn't any worse. Bron obviously likes getting those crazy stats and feels hes good enough to sacrifice movement to get the crazy stats and win at the same time. Ill give him credit hes one of the few players that has won that way. I just think he could of won alot more if he was willing to play more within a system
Probably. If he was involved in a system that employs the triangle offense, who knows what could've happened.

[RRR3]

If you look at his post season stats he scored less and had less assists in the miami run compared to his Cleveland run after that. What are u talking about dude?
You're right, although he scored a lot in the 2012 playoffs. Not like he did in the 2018 playoffs though, for sure. His advanced stats have been pretty similar every year in the playoffs starting in 2010 though, outside of 2011 and 2015 when they were noticeably worse.

[Turbo Slayer]

In 2017-18 Playoffs, LeBron didnt even rely on catch and shoot. It was only 5.5% of his game.

He mostly did his work dribbling more than 7+ dribbles on 40% frequency...

He was super ball dominant yet crushed the East lol

I dont understand how defenses cannot stop LeBron :oldlol:

[Bronbron23]

You're right, although he scored a lot in the 2012 playoffs. Not like he did in the 2018 playoffs though, for sure. His advanced stats have been pretty similar every year in the playoffs starting in 2010 though, outside of 2011 and 2015 when they were noticeably worse.

Yeah i actually loved the way he played in miami minus the 2011 finals where he just looked out of it.

[Elosha]

actually no I've been very reasonable with you even though you are completely irrational.


I do appreciate you though - its not a fake compliment - because Im a fan of greatness aka ray allen mj lebron kobe (in that order)

You have Ray Allen as greater than Jordan, LeBron and Kobe?? I know you're a fan but...that's crazy. Doesn't help your credibility one bit in these arguments. If you were just being facetious, then please clarify.

[red1]

You have Ray Allen as greater than Jordan, LeBron and Kobe?? I know you're a fan but...that's crazy. Doesn't help your credibility one bit in these arguments. If you were just being facetious, then please clarify.
I was joking


if you really think about it though ray allen pound for pound is the GOAT. greatest play in NBA history. no one has had a better 1.2 seconds in the league than ray from catch to release of game 6.

[Axe]

You have Ray Allen as greater than Jordan, LeBron and Kobe?? I know you're a fan but...that's crazy. Doesn't help your credibility one bit in these arguments. If you were just being facetious, then please clarify.
That one was just being rhetorical.

[SamuraiSWISH]

this theory was proven totally bunk in the 2nd cleveland stint when he rejected Blat's ball movement based princeton offense.

the'res a million links to articles on it with a simple google search.

the simple fact of the matter is Lebron grew up in AAU culture and went straight from it to the pros. He had no respect for advanced coaching philosophies or direction.

MJ otoh had to go through dean smith and UNC and learn to play the right way to earn his stripes.
This

[Smoke117]

This

This what? Bran is so good so you pick out some pseudo self ass hat basketball theory to throw him under the bus to raise your lover? You are literally quoting a post by tpols....gasp, I legitimately gasped on a drink of my whisky. It never ceases to amaze me how the ****ing mold together. :oldlol: