When did Kobe surpass Allen Iverson?

[StrongLurk]

96-2000:
AI - 25/4/6 with 2 steals, scoring title in 99
Kobe - 16/4/3

00-01:
AI - 31/4/5 with 2.5 steals (lead NBA), MVP, scoring title
Kobe - 29/6/5 with 1.7 steals

00-01 FINALS:
AI - 36/6/4
Kobe - 25/8/6

So, it seems like AI was the better player clearly through their first 5 seasons. Kobe was a great player by 2001, but had the fortune to play with peak Shaq at that time, one of the most dominant peaks ever.

02-05:
AI - 29/4/6 with 2.6 steals (couple of steals titles/scoring titles during this time).
Kobe - 27/6/6

Kobe had no scoring titles/steals titles through 96-05, AI had 4 scoring titles, 3 steals titles. So, it appears the real advantage Kobe had as far as "narratives" of him being better than AI was him three-peating with Shaq.

PLAYOFFS 99-05:
AI - 31/4/6 with 2.2 steals
Kobe - 26/5/5 with 1.6 steals

[Smoke117]

lmfao, why is this mongoose tyke even alllowed to even open his mouth? lmfao. Everything this mental patient has to say is ridiculous but we have to all suffer, it, ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING.

[FromDowntown]

2 sides of the ball my friend. This is why Kobe is higher than MJ,MJ had weak defense (Pippen saved him). LBJ os the GOAT 2way player, Kobe is top 5 tho. MJ is a good scorer but doesnt play D.

[FreezingTsmoove]

You perfectly described how 75% of this board feels about you

[StrongLurk]

No real rebuttals? For me I would say Kobe surpassed AI around 06.

It would be interesting though if AI got to play with Shaq and Kobe was drafted by the Sixers. AI would definitely have been viewed as the better player.

[ArbitraryWater]

lmfao, why is this mongoose tyke even alllowed to even open his mouth? lmfao. Everything this mental patient has to say is ridiculous but we have to all suffer, it, ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING.

nikka reads basketball reference every day and then makes a thread

[StrongLurk]

nikka reads basketball reference every day and then makes a thread

Bro I watched Kobe and AI play all the time growing up. It's just that the NBA is really easy to make perception of when it comes to casuals. AI was the better player compared to Kobe for sure when they started their careers, but Kobe had the benefit of playing with the MDE. Kobe's PROFILE was elevated to legendary status before he truly deserved it in my opinion. Guys like Duncan and AI were better than Kobe for a while.

I'm just using BREF as a quick, objective reminder for people who are young on this board. Plenty of posters here were born in 2000 or after.

[ArbitraryWater]

Bro I watched Kobe and AI play all the time growing up. It's just that the NBA is really easy to make perception of when it comes to casuals. AI was the better player compared to Kobe for sure when they started their careers, but Kobe had the benefit of playing with the MDE. Kobe's PROFILE was elevated to legendary status before he truly deserved it in my opinion. Guys like Duncan and AI were better than Kobe for a while.

I'm just using BREF as a quick, objective reminder for people who are young on this board. Plenty of posters here were born in 2000 or after.

COOL COOL COOL NO DOUBT NO DOUBT NO DOUBt

[STATUTORY]

lol OP is such a tryhard contrarian, that's the constant theme in every thread he creates

the only advantage AI had over Kobe from 2001-2005 is the fact AI was the sole volume scorer on a bad team, so he was allowed to chuck away and put up 2 more points on lower percentages

your own stats proved that

[IllegalD]

96-2000:
AI - 25/4/6 with 2 steals, scoring title in 99
Kobe - 16/4/3

00-01:
AI - 31/4/5 with 2.5 steals (lead NBA), MVP, scoring title
Kobe - 29/6/5 with 1.7 steals

00-01 FINALS:
AI - 36/6/4
Kobe - 25/8/6

So, it seems like AI was the better player clearly through their first 5 seasons. Kobe was a great player by 2001, but had the fortune to play with peak Shaq at that time, one of the most dominant peaks ever.

02-05:
AI - 29/4/6 with 2.6 steals (couple of steals titles/scoring titles during this time).
Kobe - 27/6/6

Kobe had no scoring titles/steals titles through 96-05, AI had 4 scoring titles, 3 steals titles. So, it appears the real advantage Kobe had as far as "narratives" of him being better than AI was him three-peating with Shaq.

PLAYOFFS 99-05:
AI - 31/4/6 with 2.2 steals
Kobe - 26/5/5 with 1.6 steals


You must be a retard.

Give Kobe prime Melo as his second option like Iverson had and he wins you rings. Meanwhile everyone and their momma wrote off the Iverson/Melo pairing from the start because they knew AI was too much of a ballhog to make it work. Failed so hard he got his ass traded for an inferior player in Billups, because he was a better chemistry fit and a better leader.

[StrongLurk]

You must be a retard.

Give Kobe prime Melo as his second option like Iverson had and he wins you rings. Meanwhile everyone and their momma wrote off the Iverson/Melo pairing from the start because they knew AI was too much of a ballhog to make it work. Failed so hard he got his ass traded for an inferior player in Billups, because he was a better chemistry fit and a better leader.

I wonder what AI would have done with a teammate like Shaq?

Also, I said Kobe truly passed AI in 06 which was before AI played with Carmelo. So, I think Kobe after 06 had a better chance of winning with Carmelo than AI did. We agree there. I don't agree that AI was a ballhog compared to Kobe. They were basically the same type of "ballhog", although AI did average more assists...

But AI was winning steals titles, and scoring titles even before Kobe became an elite player. And the year Kobe became elite (00-01), AI won MVP that year and was way better in the finals going up directly against Kobe. AI almost dropped 50 on Kobe.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

At the time, from the eye test alone, I knew Kobe was the better player in 2003. That version of Bean was the closest I saw to Jordan.

Knowing how both their careers panned out and with the benefit of hindsight, Kobe "truly" passed AI in the 2001 postseason.

[tpols]

Hilarious how you focus on whole seasons at first, but then switch to 5 games for your 2001 analysis.

also only use volume stats, with no contextual explanation.

very shallow clown level study.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Hilarious how you focus on whole seasons at first, but then switch to 5 games for your 2001 analysis.

also only use volume stats, with no contextual explanation.

very shallow clown level study.

I'm thinking OP is a troll.

He first compared years from 96-01. Had regular-season and playoff numbers too. Then 02-05 stats but conveniently leftout playoff data. Well...he went back and added 99-01 again :oldlol:

[tpols]

I'm thinking OP is a troll.

He first compared years from 96-01. Had regular-season and playoff numbers too. Then 02-05 stats but conveniently leftout playoff data. Well...he went back and added 99-01 again :oldlol:

:lol

he's gotta try harder if he's trolling. this was one of the least convincing posts ive ever seen.

and if the fella isn't trolling, i just feel bad for him.

[StrongLurk]

Hilarious how you focus on whole seasons at first, but then switch to 5 games for your 2001 analysis.

also only use volume stats, with no contextual explanation.

very shallow clown level study.


I'm confused about this post. I included the entire 00-01 regular season (AI was MVP, scoring/steals leader) and then included the finals where AI was much better than Kobe. What better way to compare two elite guards than when they faced off in the finals?

Of course Kobe is better all time than AI, I'm just curious when people think Kobe actually surpassed AI on the all-time list. I could see someone making an argument for 03...or even 06. I just find Kobe's early career fascinating in hindsight because so many casuals think Kobe was "KOBE" for like his whole career...when he really got a lot of accolades before he deserved it. He was making all-star teams in the 90's when he definitely wasn't all star level. People wanted to say he was like Jordan because he three-peated...except he was clearly beneath Jordan during that time (while he TEAMMATE actually dominated like Jordan, especially in the finals).

[red1]

tmac
kobe
iverson
carter


kobe is the only one out of the group that played defense.

[StrongLurk]

tmac
kobe
iverson
carter


kobe is the only one out of the group that played defense.

Clearly Kobe is higher all-time, but that's not what I'm talking about. At least by the end of the 2001 season, AI was the best out of that group. AI also averaged 2.4 steals per game between 97-05 and won three steals titles in a row, so he definitely played some defense.

97-05:
AI - 27/4/6 with 2.4 steals on 42/31/77
Kobe - 22/5/4 with 1.5 steals on 45/33/83

AI - 1 MVP, 4 scoring titles, 3 steals titles
Kobe - no MVPS, no scoring titles, no steals titles

AI - 3 times all-nba 1st team, 3 times all-nba 2nd team
Kobe - 3 times all-nba 1st team, 2 times all-nba 2nd team

[RRR3]

Clearly Kobe is higher all-time, but that's not what I'm talking about. At least by the end of the 2001 season, AI was the best out of that group. AI also averaged 2.4 steals per game between 97-05 and won three steals titles in a row, so he definitely played some defense.

97-05:
AI - 27/4/6 with 2.4 steals on 42/31/77
Kobe - 22/5/4 with 1.5 steals on 45/33/83

AI - 1 MVP, 4 scoring titles, 3 steals titles
Kobe - no MVPS, no scoring titles, no steals titles

AI - 3 times all-nba 1st team, 3 times all-nba 2nd team
Kobe - 3 times all-nba 1st team, 2 times all-nba 2nd team
High steals totals don't automatically mean you're a good defender.