LeBron vs. MJ: Finals Opponents [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

FromDowntown

04-19-2020, 02:28 PM

It's not a comparison. Not in the slightest bit. The only thing MJ fans have left is 6. But we know 11 beats 6, so...They are in a deep mess. All three of LeBron's rings are better than any of Jordan's six. MJ won more often, but who did he beat? LBJ also has all the playoff stats records since both played 13 years. It's a shame to see MJ fall from #1 so ungracefully. Maybe one day when Zion or Luka passes LBJ I hope to take it better than how MJ fans are taking LBJ passing MJ.

FromDowntown

04-19-2020, 02:28 PM

Honestly old spurs and mavericks aren't really impressive either. Every single one of MJ's finals opponents were more talented... by a lot.

and they whooped Lebron's ass.

This is why I am honestly rethinking Kobe vs MJ. LBJ is goat tier, but honestly Kobe's 2010 ring was better than any ring MJ won as well. MJ has inflated, watered down ring totals and it shows when you begin to dig deeply.

red1

04-19-2020, 02:31 PM

Honestly old spurs and mavericks aren't really impressive either. Every single one of MJ's finals opponents were more talented... by a lot.

and they whooped Lebron's ass.

no offense bro I have nothing against you I just feel like you have some of the worst takes ever.

those so called old 2013-2014 spurs are literally better than every single team that mj beat by a mile. you couldnt be more wrong.

warriorfan

04-19-2020, 02:35 PM

Honestly old spurs and mavericks aren't really impressive either. Every single one of MJ's finals opponents were more talented... by a lot.

and they whooped Lebron's ass.

Okc was talented but were 23 years old with no experience. He barley beat old man Duncan and then we all know the truth about 2016.

I’m not even trolling when I say LeBrons wins are not impressive in the slightest bit

FromDowntown

04-19-2020, 02:35 PM

sdot_thadon

04-19-2020, 02:37 PM

Honestly old spurs and mavericks aren't really impressive either. Every single one of MJ's finals opponents were more talented... by a lot.

and they whooped Lebron's ass.

Really? I always feel like although Lebron played like shit in 2011 the Mavs get underrated because people make it more about what Lebron didn't do rather than what the Mavs actually did. I wont take them over all MJ's finals opponents but i could see them beating the 1st 3peat opponents with the suns being a push. Sonics and Jazz are probably better tho. The Spurs? I don't think a single finals opponent of MJ's beats them, the Jazz and Sonics would get the closest but I don't think they win.

tpols

04-19-2020, 02:40 PM

no offense bro I have nothing against you I just feel like you have some of the worst takes ever.

those so called old 2013-2014 spurs are literally better than every single team that mj beat by a mile. you couldnt be more wrong.

Not even close.

The 2014 spurs had no MVP talent... shit.. they didnt even have a single All NBA talent.

Kawhi won FMVP and he averaged 12 ppg on the year. You'll NEVER find a less talented team to lay such a beatdown on somebody in the Finals.

The spurs won by record margin in 2014 against the Heat. Even an ancient Mavs team took them to 7 in the first round.

FireDavidKahn

04-19-2020, 02:45 PM

MJ getting bailed out by frail old white bois

https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/1251923417282088965

tpols

04-19-2020, 02:48 PM

Really? I always feel like although Lebron played like shit in 2011 the Mavs get underrated because people make it more about what Lebron didn't do rather than what the Mavs actually did. I wont take them over all MJ's finals opponents but i could see them beating the 1st 3peat opponents with the suns being a push. Sonics and Jazz are probably better tho. The Spurs? I don't think a single finals opponent of MJ's beats them, the Jazz and Sonics would get the closest but I don't think they win.

The pheonix suns easily beat the 2014 spurs.

Peak charles ****ing barkley, kevin johnson, and thunder dan.

jesus.... it's not even close. it might be a sweep.

FireDavidKahn

04-19-2020, 02:50 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv_8GVbv01U

:oldlol:

Footage that Jordanphiles wish the NBA would have kept hidden away.,

FireDavidKahn

04-19-2020, 02:51 PM

sdot_thadon

04-19-2020, 02:58 PM

The pheonix suns easily beat the 2014 spurs.

Peak charles ****ing barkley, kevin johnson, and thunder dan.

jesus.... it's not even close. it might be a sweep.

:biggums:

Spurs had better depth, coaching and 3 hall of famers, possibly 4. I'd take baby Kawhi over Thunder Dan. And, the Spurs played great defense. Barkely was a monster but he didnt have as much help as Timmy did with that team.

tpols

04-19-2020, 03:00 PM

He honestly thinks the Raptors didn't have a good supporting cast around Kawhi last year:roll:

who did they have?

When Kawhi joined the raptors, his second option was a 7 ppg player. Lowry a playoff failure.

Not favored against the bucks or dubs.

They won the biggest underdog title since the '11 mavs.

Kawhi didnt even make an all star game until 2016.

you guys are presenting joke arguments...

tpols

04-19-2020, 03:03 PM

the main reason the 2014 spurs who0ped the Heat's ass so bad was the revenge factor.

They KNEW they blew the previous year. Tim Duncan guaranteed a win before the series. They destroyed them from an internal emotional state that propelled their play.

All time, they're one of the least talented teams to ever win a title. Ancient duncan, parker, and a 12 ppg kawhi were their best players.

FromDowntown

04-19-2020, 03:03 PM

Okc was talented but were 23 years old with no experience. He barley beat old man Duncan and then we all know the truth about 2016.

I’m not even trolling when I say LeBrons wins are not impressive in the slightest bit

2012 Thunder were on pace to beat anyone. They started the playoffs on a

13-3 run before losing 4 straight to LeBron's Heat. Be honest bb

sdot_thadon

04-19-2020, 03:04 PM

who did they have?

When Kawhi joined the raptors, his second option was a 7 ppg player. Lowry a playoff failure.

Not favored against the bucks or dubs.

They won the biggest underdog title since the '11 mavs.

Dude the Raptors were damn near a perennial 50 win team by that point, that repalced Derozan with Kawhi(obvious upgrade) and added Marc freakin Gasol and Danny Green to an already conference final level team. Cmon bro. do better.

FromDowntown

04-19-2020, 03:04 PM

warriorfan

04-19-2020, 03:04 PM

Op vs Small Turkish kids

https://media.tenor.com/images/2dd849adb1a55154aae9d47109a537b4/tenor.gif

imdaman99

04-19-2020, 03:04 PM

The pheonix suns easily beat the 2014 spurs.

Peak charles ****ing barkley, kevin johnson, and thunder dan.

jesus.... it's not even close. it might be a sweep.
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: Spurs were not star player oriented, they worked as a team. Go watch some videos of that team, the ball movement would embarrass the average defense of the Suns.

tpols

04-19-2020, 03:05 PM

Top 30 SRS team of all time = "least talented"

Wake up pols

you need to learn to differentiate between teamwork and talent.

Turbo Slayer

04-19-2020, 03:07 PM

2014 Spurs....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1ANov-Ogvg

3ball

04-19-2020, 03:09 PM

those so called old 2013-2014 spurs are literally better than every single team that mj beat by a mile. you couldnt be more wrong.

Dirk almost beat them with an 8 seed

Give Dirk 3 HOF teammates like Wade/Bosh/Allen, and he beats the Spurs easily

Spurs weren't better on paper (talent-wise) - it was their teamwork and brand that was superior, so that's on Lebron

tpols

04-19-2020, 03:09 PM

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: Spurs were not star player oriented, they worked as a team. Go watch some videos of that team, the ball movement would embarrass the average defense of the Suns.

i watched their every playoff game. If you search it, you could find a comment in most of their playoff game threads.

the **** are you smoking mate?

Obviously they had GOAT teamwork. Thats the reason they were so good despite their limited talent.

OP's post is talking about... talent.

LeCroix

04-19-2020, 03:10 PM

Dirk almost beat them with an 8 seed

Give Dirk 3 HOF teammates like Wade/Bosh/Allen, and he beats the Spurs easily

But you can also give Pippen another scorer liek Iverson or Westbrook and he wins most years but not 93 as well so dont use that swap method.

red1

04-19-2020, 03:15 PM

3ball and tpols you guys are both dumb as hell.

2013 and 2014 spurs over the 91 lakers 92 blazers 93 suns 96 sonics and 97 98 jazz - by a ****ing mile.

warriorfan

04-19-2020, 03:16 PM

Td > lbj

red1

04-19-2020, 03:17 PM

Td > lbj

same tier - both top are top 10 finals MVP playoff icons :)

tpols

04-19-2020, 03:18 PM

ancient Td > lbj

fixed.

3ball

04-19-2020, 03:23 PM

give Pippen another scorer liek Iverson or Westbrook and he wins most years but not 93 as well so dont use that swap method.

Playoff Average

Jordan....... 33.5
Iverson....... 29.7
Westbrick... 25.4

^^^ Iverson and Westbrick don't score enough - the Bulls needed scoring champ production for all 6 rings, so only MJ would do - only MJ won titles as the scoring champ because only he was skilled enough to fit that level of scoring into a championship framework/teamwork

(edit: Shaq and Kareem also won as scoring champ once each in their peak seasons of 00' and 71' - so their peak burden was MJ's standard burden to win a ring

Ultimately, the 14' Spurs weren't better on paper (talent-wise) - it was their teamwork and brand that was superior, so that's on Lebron..

Btw, Jordan and Pippen averaged equal assists, so jordan wasn't just a scorer

ArbitraryWater

04-19-2020, 03:32 PM

Honestly old spurs and mavericks aren't really impressive either. Every single one of MJ's finals opponents were more talented... by a lot.

and they whooped Lebron's ass.

'14 Spurs easily destroy any of MJ's opponents. easily.

stop fawning over 16 GSW and deny this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjadmjleQT8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sedat305uCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olHQBgA4ak8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgwZYsXCcVY

highest playoff +/- since '01 Lakers

ArbitraryWater

04-19-2020, 03:33 PM

The pheonix suns easily beat the 2014 spurs.

Peak charles ****ing barkley, kevin johnson, and thunder dan.

jesus.... it's not even close. it might be a sweep.

holy yikes you are dumb.

Spurs blew everybody out

why did the lack of talent not prevent them from blowing out the ultra talented OKC by 25+ pts at home every game?

mavs argument doesnt stick. we all know great champions have lackluster first rounds.

3ball

04-19-2020, 03:40 PM

'14 Spurs easily destroy any of MJ's opponents. easily.

stop fawning over 16 GSW and deny this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjadmjleQT8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sedat305uCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olHQBgA4ak8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgwZYsXCcVY

highest playoff +/- since '01 Lakers

Why post a superior brand of ball that lebron's skillset can't play?

He had his own super-teams teams to face his comp, but his ball-domination couldn't elevate teams to the level that the opponent's ball movement was at

So he didn't lose to better talent - he lost to better teamwork/brand, which is on him

Ultimately, he played 17 years and had many coaches - but he rejected coaching from everyone, including Walton (https://sports.yahoo.com/lebron-james-reportedly-ignoring-luke-waltons-play-calls-nobodys-surprise-210514450.html), Lue (http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/lebron-james-attitude-listen-to-tyronne-lue-cavs-heat-david-blatt/hjmyp8w984gi1xkzex534zc19), Blatt (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-david-blatt-rift), and Spolestra (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-miami-heat-news-0402-20150401-story.html)

He always ran lebron-ball instead of getting coached, so the next Phil Jackson wasn't allowed

SouBeachTalents

04-19-2020, 03:44 PM

Not even close.

The 2014 spurs had no MVP talent... shit.. they didnt even have a single All NBA talent.

Kawhi won FMVP and he averaged 12 ppg on the year. You'll NEVER find a less talented team to lay such a beatdown on somebody in the Finals.

The spurs won by record margin in 2014 against the Heat. Even an ancient Mavs team took them to 7 in the first round.
Parker was All-NBA in 2014. And a lot of what you say could be applied to the '04 Pistons, who also laid an epic beatdown on the Lakers in the Finals

tpols

04-19-2020, 04:14 PM

Parker was All-NBA in 2014. And a lot of what you say could be applied to the '04 Pistons, who also laid an epic beatdown on the Lakers in the Finals

Exactly.

the '04 pistons are generally seen as one of the least talented teams to win and were MASSIVE underdogs.

They won against an internally crumbling lakers who out-talented them. Doesnt mean they'd beat Barkley and KJ. Or stockton and malone. Or magic's lakers.

I used to watch Jason Kidd & scrubs routinely wipe the detroit pistons as a kid. They were far from unbeatable, as were the 2014 spurs.

How many title teams you seen with no MVP talents? How many GOAT teams you seen lacking that?

None.

SouBeachTalents

04-19-2020, 04:17 PM

Exactly.

the '04 pistons are generally seen as one of the least talented teams to win and were MASSIVE underdogs.

They won against an internally crumbling lakers who out-talented them. Doesnt mean they'd beat Barkley and KJ. Or stockton and malone. Or magic's lakers.

I used to watch Jason Kidd & scrubs routinely wipe the detroit pistons as a kid. They were far from unbeatable, as were the 2014 spurs.

How many title teams you seen with no MVP talents? How many GOAT teams you seen lacking that?

None.
The Spurs did destroy the Blazers, and were putting some pretty bad beatings on the Thunder in their home games (tbf Ibaka was out the first two). Obviously, I know the Finals is where a lot of teams mold how they'll be remembered, but I think those two teams benefited more reputation wise from their Finals performance than any other team I can think of

FireDavidKahn

04-19-2020, 04:39 PM

who did they have?

When Kawhi joined the raptors, his second option was a 7 ppg player. Lowry a playoff failure.

Not favored against the bucks or dubs.

They won the biggest underdog title since the '11 mavs.

Kawhi didnt even make an all star game until 2016.

you guys are presenting joke arguments...

2017-18: 59 games
2016-17: 51 games
2015-16: 56 wins

Then subtract out the worst parts of those teams (DeRozan and Valanciunas) and replace it with Kawhi, Green and Gasol...

"no help":roll:

You incorrectly rate how "stacked" a team is based on how many "stars" it has, it's like the entire make up of a team is completely lost on you. The Raptors have had some of the deepest teams in the league for a while now and were constantly among the best in the East with DEROZAN as their best player. If DEROZAN is your best player and your team is winning 50+ games year after year then you have a really, really good team around you.

Drygon

04-19-2020, 04:40 PM

no offense bro I have nothing against you I just feel like you have some of the worst takes ever.

those so called old 2013-2014 spurs are literally better than every single team that mj beat by a mile. you couldnt be more wrong.

Rubbish. Portland Trail Blazers in early 1990s were arguably better.

Clyde finished 2nd in MVP Voting behind the GOAT and was actually in his prime unlike Duncan, Kawhi and Manu. Tony Parker was at the tail end of his. You also had Terry Porter who was an all star in 91 and 93 combined with a deep bench and another 91 All Star Kevin Duckworth.

ArbitraryWater

04-19-2020, 04:41 PM

Rubbish. Portland Trail Blazers in early 1990s were arguably better.

Clyde finished 2nd in MVP Voting behind the GOAT and was actually in his prime unlike Duncan, Kawhi and Manu. Tony Parker was at the tail end of his. You also had Terry Porter who was an all star in 91 and 93 combined with a deep bench and another 91 All Star Kevin Duckworth.

and yet, the 14 Spurs posted a +15 route in the post-season, merely maintaing their RS trend

tpols

04-19-2020, 04:44 PM

Why post a superior brand of ball that lebron's skillset can't play?

it's funny as hell. :lol

the author breaking down all the angles. Manu's "quick dribble" that allows him to make an entry pass to duncan. While a role player get's his pass stolen.

It is an expert anaylsis. But it highlights chemistry. It highlights familiarality.

The spurs could win with no big talent because they were so nuanced in their micro motions.

red1

04-19-2020, 04:44 PM

Rubbish. Portland Trail Blazers in early 1990s were arguably better.

Clyde finished 2nd in MVP Voting behind the GOAT and was actually in his prime unlike Duncan, Kawhi and Manu. Tony Parker was at the tail end of his. You also had Terry Porter who was an all star in 91 and 93 combined with a deep bench and another 91 All Star Kevin Duckworth.

**** outta here.

blazers would get swept by the 2013 or 2014 spurs.

tpols

04-19-2020, 04:53 PM

2017-18: 59 games
2016-17: 51 games
2015-16: 56 wins

Then subtract out the worst parts of those teams (DeRozan and Valanciunas) and replace it with Kawhi, Green and Gasol...

"no help":roll:

You incorrectly rate how "stacked" a team is based on how many "stars" it has, it's like the entire make up of a team is completely lost on you. The Raptors have had some of the deepest teams in the league for a while now and were constantly among the best in the East with DEROZAN as their best player. If DEROZAN is your best player and your team is winning 50+ games year after year then you have a really, really good team around you.

retarded take since derozan was always great in the regular season, and a joke in the playoffs. (as was lowry)

it takes less than a sentence to slay a paragraph argument from you.

red1

04-19-2020, 04:59 PM

retarded take since derozan was always great in the regular season, and a joke in the playoffs. (as was lowry)

it takes less than a sentence to slay a paragraph argument from you.

he's actually 100% right. everything he said is completely accurate.

we were already a 50 win team without derozan on the court and then you add in kawhi - that's an excellent supporting cast

lowry
gasol
ibaka
siakam
norman powell

these guys will win 50 games every year no problem and can defend their ass off too.

17-5 last year without kawhi and again on pace for the same record as last year - without kawhi.

we didn't replace him with anything either. the roster is identical just minus kawhi obviously.

sportjames23

04-20-2020, 01:41 AM

1987_Lakers

04-20-2020, 01:42 AM

If the Revenge Factor was all it took, how come the Jazz couldn’t do it against MJ and the Bulls in 1998?

Excuses, excuses for Bron. :oldlol:
https://i.postimg.cc/HkTXCqvB/Sport-James-Owned.png

SouBeachTalents

04-20-2020, 01:48 AM

https://i.postimg.cc/HkTXCqvB/Sport-James-Owned.png
:oldlol:

GimmeThat

04-20-2020, 01:54 AM

I think we're winning the war on drugs though

Akeem34TheDream

04-20-2020, 02:13 AM

2014 Spurs would beat 2012 Okc and 2015 Gsw and might beat 2016 Gsw. Might also be the best Spurs team ever.

FromDowntown

04-20-2020, 03:12 AM

The pheonix suns easily beat the 2014 spurs.

Peak charles ****ing barkley, kevin johnson, and thunder dan.

jesus.... it's not even close. it might be a sweep.

What about peak fu****** LeBron, with Wade and Bosh. Or is Wade washed up now?

FromDowntown

04-20-2020, 03:14 AM

If the Revenge Factor was all it took, how come the Jazz couldn’t do it against MJ and the Bulls in 1998?

https://i.postimg.cc/HkTXCqvB/Sport-James-Owned.png

Lebron23

04-20-2020, 03:32 AM

Really? I always feel like although Lebron played like shit in 2011 the Mavs get underrated because people make it more about what Lebron didn't do rather than what the Mavs actually did. I wont take them over all MJ's finals opponents but i could see them beating the 1st 3peat opponents with the suns being a push. Sonics and Jazz are probably better tho. The Spurs? I don't think a single finals opponent of MJ's beats them, the Jazz and Sonics would get the closest but I don't think they win.

The 2011 Dallas Mavericks were also the same team who swept the defending Champion Los Angeles Lakers