2014 should go against Lebron as well. Duncan was 38!

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Wade and Bosh played big minutes this series. May not have been 100%, but not like they were playing reduced minutes.
I hear the Lebron apologists tell us we need to forgive Lebron for the 2007 FInals disaster (22.0 PPG on 34% FG), yet Kawhi was only 22 in 2014 and won the FMVP. How can this be true?
Jordan haters say Magic was old in '91 when the Bulls won, yet Magic was only 32 in the '91 series. Tim Duncan was 38 years old in the 2014 finals!

So having 2 all stars alongside you (Wade 32 / Bosh 30) and you're 29 and the league MVP and 2x champ - you shouldn't lose by an all-time record finals margin in 5 games. The 1 game the Heat won was by 2 points.
Let's not forget Miami had Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis - both dudes who could light it up beyond the arc. That 2013-2014 team was stacked. Hell Ginobli turned 37 the month after the finals, and Parker was 31 and noticeably slower than the 20 year old player he was in 2003.

I rank Lebron's finals failures in this order from most embarrassing to least:
2011 (obviously)
2007 (Just because he had played 4 full years in the league and his numbers were way below his regular season / and the turnovers) + swept
2014 is 3rd worse due to my reasons above. Record finals loss margin, lost 4-1.
2018 - Meltdown choke in OT of game 1 / "punching the wall" + swept
2017 - KD ate his lunch, 4-1 loss
2015 - Good numbers and 2 injured teammates - although played like trash in games 4/5, this is his least worse in a sea of finals losses.


Thoughts?

[SouBeachTalents]

Let's see you post the numbers of those two all-stars, they must've been having some monster games playing those big minutes. Or the likes of Allen & Lewis

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Let's see you post the numbers of those two all-stars, they must've been having some monster games playing those big minutes. Or the likes of Allen & Lewis

Wade 34.5 minutes per game. Bosh, 36.3. Dudes hurt don't play that many minutes, period.
Highest scorer for the Spurs was Parker's amazing 18.0 PPG. Lebron just couldn't get it done - he does not play with a style that's winning team basketball when it counts. You know it and I know it.

Lebron did lead both teams in turnovers, with 19 for the series. So there's that.

[red1]

go watch the series.

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade 34.5 minutes per game. Bosh, 36.3. Dudes hurt don't play that many minutes, period.
I agree, and especially since they weren't hurt, they must've both had really good series

[FromDowntown]

Wade was a top 10 all time WORST #2 option in Finals history.

You CRY about Pippens lack of scoring but Wade did even less than ANY FINALS Pippen played in.

And, the obvious, Pippen also was an elite defender with mmore rebs and assists than Wade.

You are a low iq 3ball alt now Stop it.

[FromDowntown]

Imagine crying about Pippen's lack of scoring and praising Wade who did even less :lol stop it 3ball

Top 10 lowest ppg #2 Finals scorers

[ 1.] '98 Hornacek (10.7 ppg) (MJ opponent)
[ 2.] '89 Kareem (12.5 ppg)
[ 3.] '07 Gooden (12.8 ppg)
[ 4.] '94 Maxwell (13.4 ppg)
[ 5.] '06 Walker (13.8 ppg)
[ 6.] '15 Mozgov (14.0 ppg)
[ 7.] '03 Parker (14.0 ppq)
[ 8.] '08 Gasol (14.7 ppg)
[ 9.] '97 Stockton (15.0 ppg) (MJ opponent)
[ 10.] '14 Wade (15.2 ppg)

[red1]

the spurs were 10 deep with great shooters at every position and a great system meanwhile the heat were hobbled - you could tell the deep runs were getting to everyone except lebron who still seemed fresh.


duncan wasn't even the spurs best player - who knows who it was. they had ginobili, kawhi, hell patty mills going off from three.


and the fact that the heat seemed sluggish and slow only compounded the problems because they got destroyed by the ballmovement.


to me wade was the biggest culprit and the reason they struggled - he couldnt run. literally couldnt run.


"hurr durr tim duncan was 38"


"and in 2017 kd ate his lunch."





**** outta here kid.

[SouBeachTalents]

the spurs were 10 deep with great shooters at every position and a great system meanwhile the heat were hobbled you could tell the deep runs were getting to everyone except lebron who still seemed fresh.


duncan wasn't even the spurs best player - who knows who it was. they had ginobili, kawhi, hell patty mills going off from three.


and the fact that the heat seemed sluggish and slow only compounded the problems because they got destroyed by the ballmovement.


to me wade was the biggest culprit and the reason they struggled - he couldnt run. literally couldnt run.


"hurr durr tim duncan was 38"


"and in 2017 kd ate his lunch."





**** outta here kid.
I prompted him twice too, OP still couldn't bring himself to post Wade & Bosh's numbers from that series :oldlol:

[Shaquille O'Neal]

For comparison's sake:
Lebron age 29 in 2014 in the finals:
Lebron 28.2 PPG
Wade 15.2 PPG
Bosh 14.0 PPG
Allen 9.8 PPG

Jordan @ Age 35 in 1998
Jordan 33.5 PPG with only 10 turnovers in 6 games (compared to 19 in 5 games for Lebron)
Pippen 15.7 PPG (about the same as Wade)
Kukoc 15.2 PPG
4th highest scorer - a dazzling 5.2 from Ron Harper.

So Lebron got 39 PPG from scorers #2-#4
Michael 6 years older got 35 PPG from scorers #2-#4 and put in 5 more PPG himself with 1/2 the turnovers.

Yet you idiots dare to compare these two. What a disgrace.

[Mamba4Life]

that was a asterisk ring for duncan

imagine if kobe averaged 15ppg and won a ring, noone would count it


only duncan can go for 14-15ppg, be a 3rd option and win a ring for full credit


kobe had to carry bumf*ck nash and dwight at that age

[Stanley Kobrick]

that was a asterisk ring for duncan

imagine if kobe averaged 15ppg and won a ring, noone would count it


only duncan can go for 14-15ppg, be a 3rd option and win a ring for full credit


kobe had to carry bumf*ck nash and dwight at that age
welcome to insidehoops mamba4life

[red1]

For comparison's sake:
Lebron age 29 in 2014 in the finals:
Lebron 28.2 PPG
Wade 15.2 PPG
Bosh 14.0 PPG
Allen 9.8 PPG

Jordan @ Age 35 in 1998
Jordan 33.5 PPG with only 10 turnovers in 6 games (compared to 19 in 5 games for Lebron)
Pippen 15.7 PPG (about the same as Wade)
Kukoc 15.2 PPG
4th highest scorer - a dazzling 5.2 from Ron Harper.

So Lebron got 39 PPG from scorers #2-#4
Michael 6 years old got 35 PPG from scorers #2-#4 and put in 5 more PPG himself with 1/2 the turnovers.

Yet you idiots dare to compare these two. What a disgrace.

your take is idiotic. completely idiotic.


the first mistake that you make is that you are trying to compare the stats on a 1 to 1 level.


the second mistake that you're making is that you're acting like the 98 jazz and 2014 spurs are the same team.


the spurs are a FULL TIER above the jazz as far as ability on the court.


and trust me dude - you'd never want to watch a series with old mike going up against a young kawhi.


mike would still do his thing but it would be 10x harder for him.


he's never seen a defender on that level. the only guy that could compare was on his team.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

For reference in 2016 - Lebron 29 PPG, Kyrie 27 PPG. Lebron got 48 points per game from his players #2-#4. Talk about "moar help".

Has anyone ever in the history of the finals gotten more help than Lebron in 2016?
#2 option scores only 2 PPG less than he did. Check.
#2 option (Kyrie) drops 41 points in a game. Check.
Refs suspended the glue guy (Green) for a game. Check.
Starting center for GS hurt after game 3, never returns. Check.
Curry still playing easily as injured as Wade in 2014. Check.
The 73-9 regular season team went 15-9 in the playoffs - clearly were running out of gas.

Again, has a superstart ever had more fortunate luck than Lebron did in 2016?

[SouBeachTalents]

For comparison's sake:
Lebron age 29 in 2014 in the finals:
Lebron 28.2 PPG
Wade 15.2 PPG
Bosh 14.0 PPG
Allen 9.8 PPG

Jordan @ Age 35 in 1998
Jordan 33.5 PPG with only 10 turnovers in 6 games (compared to 19 in 5 games for Lebron)
Pippen 15.7 PPG (about the same as Wade)
Kukoc 15.2 PPG
4th highest scorer - a dazzling 5.2 from Ron Harper.

So Lebron got 39 PPG from scorers #2-#4
Michael 6 years older got 35 PPG from scorers #2-#4 and put in 5 more PPG himself with 1/2 the turnovers.

Yet you idiots dare to compare these two. What a disgrace.
Absolutely no mention of assists, rebounds, efficiency, defense. Seems legit

[LostCause]

he's never seen a defender on that level

Trolling?

[FromDowntown]

your take is idiotic. completely idiotic.


the first mistake that you make is that you are trying to compare the stats on a 1 to 1 level.


the second mistake that you're making is that you're acting like the 98 jazz and 2014 spurs are the same team.


the spurs are a FULL TIER above the jazz as far as ability on the court.


and trust me dude - you'd never want to watch a series with old mike going up against a young kawhi.


mike would still do his thing but it would be 10x harder for him.


he's never seen a defender on that level. the only guy that could compare was on his team.

Its a 3ball alt, cant you tell? Thats why its so idiotic

[FromDowntown]

For reference in 2016 - Lebron 29 PPG, Kyrie 27 PPG. Lebron got 48 points per game from his players #2-#4. Talk about "moar help".

Has anyone ever in the history of the finals gotten more help than Lebron in 2016?
#2 option scores only 2 PPG less than he did. Check.
#2 option drops 41 points in a game. Check.
Refs suspended the glue guy (Green for a game). Check.
Starting center for GS hurt after game 3, never returns. Check.
Curry still playing easily as injured as Wade in 2014. Check.
The 73-9 regular season team went 15-9 in 16 games - clearly were running out of gas.

Again, has a superstart ever had more fortunate luck than Lebron did in 2016?

Was Hornacek on the Warriors scoring 10.7 ppg? :lol

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I prompted him twice too, OP still couldn't bring himself to post Wade & Bosh's numbers from that series :oldlol:

I guess you can't read? I posted them.

[red1]

Trolling?

absolutely not. I think kawhi is the greatest perimeter defender of all-time. maybe pippen or mike.


you think mj is shedding kawhi as easily as he did bryon russell to win the series? hell ****ing no.

[SouBeachTalents]

I guess you can't read? I posted them.
I guess you can't read, you did so after that post

[FromDowntown]

Imagine crying about Pippen's lack of scoring and praising Wade who did even less :lol stop it 3ball

Top 10 lowest ppg #2 Finals scorers

[ 1.] '98 Hornacek (10.7 ppg) (MJ opponent)
[ 2.] '89 Kareem (12.5 ppg)
[ 3.] '07 Gooden (12.8 ppg)
[ 4.] '94 Maxwell (13.4 ppg)
[ 5.] '06 Walker (13.8 ppg)
[ 6.] '15 Mozgov (14.0 ppg)
[ 7.] '03 Parker (14.0 ppq)
[ 8.] '08 Gasol (14.7 ppg)
[ 9.] '97 Stockton (15.0 ppg) (MJ opponent)
[ 10.] '14 Wade (15.2 ppg)

3ball? Where does Pippen rank? Better than Wade in 2014?


End scene

[LostCause]

absolutely not. I think kawhi is the greatest perimeter defender of all-time. maybe pippen or mike.


you think mj is shedding kawhi as easily as he did bryon russell to win the series? hell ****ing no.

I mean yeah, you could argue Kawhi's up there. But to say MJ has never faced a perimeter defender on his level is just false

Forgetting he faced Rodman at his peak defensively, Payton, McMillan, Moncrief, Dumars etc

[ArbitraryWater]

stacked? Nikka half the team was retired a week later and Wade dropped a couple of nice 3-point games G4-5 pre-garbage time.

Team got outscored badly with LeBron off.

I still remember 3rd quarter of game 4, LeBron badly trying to wrestle them back in it:
LeBron 8-11
Teammates 1/10

What a shitshow that was

[ArbitraryWater]

For comparison's sake:
Lebron age 29 in 2014 in the finals:
Lebron 28.2 PPG
Wade 15.2 PPG
Bosh 14.0 PPG
Allen 9.8 PPG

Jordan @ Age 35 in 1998
Jordan 33.5 PPG with only 10 turnovers in 6 games (compared to 19 in 5 games for Lebron)
Pippen 15.7 PPG (about the same as Wade)
Kukoc 15.2 PPG
4th highest scorer - a dazzling 5.2 from Ron Harper.

So Lebron got 39 PPG from scorers #2-#4
Michael 6 years older got 35 PPG from scorers #2-#4 and put in 5 more PPG himself with 1/2 the turnovers.

Yet you idiots dare to compare these two. What a disgrace.

You just cannot be this retarded, PLEASE.

MJ stans really bottom of the barrel filth

[red1]

I mean yeah, you could argue Kawhi's up there. But to say MJ has never faced a perimeter defender on his level is just false

Forgetting he faced Rodman at his peak defensively, Payton, McMillan, Moncrief, Dumars etc

that still doesnt refute my point. I'll still say he hasn't faced a defender on kawhi's level.


and it applies 10-fold against the jazz.


if you swapped out hornacek or russell for 2013 or 2014 kawhi - it would change some of your perceptions :oldlol:

[LostCause]

that still doesnt refute my point. I'll still say he hasn't faced a defender on kawhi's level.

So you're claiming peak Dennis Rodman isn't on Kawhi's level defensively?

Based on what exactly?

[red1]

So you're claiming peak Dennis Rodman isn't on Kawhi's level defensively?

Based on what exactly?

I said greatest perimeter defender. and yes. kawhi>rodman


based on everything? ask a guy like james harden the so-called MVP what he thinks about kawhi. :oldlol:

[Turbo Slayer]

MJ OWNED his competition....

:bowdown:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlwUFA5Sric

[LostCause]

I said greatest perimeter defender. and yes. kawhi>rodman


based on everything? ask a guy like james harden the so-called MVP what he thinks about kawhi. :oldlol:

Ask Magic, Jordan, Wilkins etc what they think of Rodman?

You are aware Rodman won 2 DPOY's in 90 and 91, when he was primarily a perimeter defender. Right? I'm not seeing much of an argument of why Kawhi is on a different level

[Turbo Slayer]

Michael Jordan will always be the GOAT. Nuff said.

Jordan didn't have a Finals meltdown like LeBron did in 2011....

[red1]

Ask Magic, Jordan, Wilkins etc what they think of Rodman?

You are aware Rodman won 2 DPOY's in 90 and 91, when he was primarily a perimeter defender. Right? I'm not seeing much of an argument of why Kawhi is on a different level

kawhi is a better perimeter defender than rodman, period.


why would you even argue otherwise? its plain as day. they didnt even do same thing on defense. kawhi literally guards some of the best perimeter players of all-time in kd lebron the warriors etc. that was never rodman's job, he was mostly scrapping with bigs that had a size advantage but not an athleticism or strength advantage.


dont argue obvious shit. :oldlol:

[Turbo Slayer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDgOIcnp-iY

He shot 3 for 11. Hes top 5 alltime but not GOAT...

[red1]

Michael Jordan will always be the GOAT. Nuff said.

Jordan didn't have a Finals meltdown like LeBron did in 2011....

dude you're like 12 years old no offense.

[LostCause]

kawhi is a better perimeter defender than rodman, period.


why would you even argue otherwise? its plain as day. they didnt even do same thing on defense. kawhi literally guards some of the best perimeter players of all-time in kd lebron the warriors etc. that was never rodman's job, he was mostly scrapping with bigs that had a size advantage but not an athleticism or strength advantage.


dont argue obvious shit. :oldlol:

You have to be trolling

[Da_Realist]

You have to be trolling

Willfully ignorant. He'd rather spout off than make a quick google search.

[red1]

You have to be trolling


Willfully ignorant. He'd rather spout off than make a quick google search.

what's your point?

[red1]

Ask Magic, Jordan, Wilkins etc what they think of Rodman?

You are aware Rodman won 2 DPOY's in 90 and 91, when he was primarily a perimeter defender. Right? I'm not seeing much of an argument of why Kawhi is on a different level

you're right but whats your point though? I'm saying kawhi is a better perimeter defender and I know I'm right about it because I'd take kawhi over any other player of all-time to guard one play if its an alltime perimeter scorer like mike or kobe. kawhi is a BEAST of a defender has length,instincts, hands, toughness, everything.


and in any case you're strengthening my point because rodman was on the bulls and I what I said is that MJ didnt face any perimeter defender like kawhi in the finals. I'd say gp was the closest thing to an elite defender on that level and I'd say kawhi would be much better at covering mj because he'd have the size and length advantage, not the other way around.


OP is the one who opened that can of worms not me by trashing the teams that the cavs and heat beat. in reality all 3 teams would beat all of mj's finals competition.

[red1]

You have to be trolling

FYI that was definitely poorly said - what I should have said is that it wasnt rodmans job with the bulls which is where I mostly saw him play in replays of games

[Axe]

You have to be trolling
Oof

[red1]

Oof

you dont deserve your username dude. bet you're not a menace at all and I doubt that you could grow a beard. :)

[Lebron23]

OP getting wrecked as usual.

[Axe]

you dont deserve your username dude. bet you're not a menace at all and I doubt that you could grow a beard. :)
Lol as if your foolishness matters. You don't even know who the hell he is, boyo.

[red1]

Lol as if your foolishness matters. You don't even know who the hell he is, boyo.

where am I wrong? just let me know your own thoughts kid. :oldlol:

[Axe]

where am I wrong? just let me know your own thoughts kid. :oldlol:
You're probably butthurt because someone called you a troll. 💩

[red1]

You're probably butthurt because someone called you a troll. ��

nah you're the one that followed me around as per usual. :D

[Axe]

nah you're the one that followed me around as per usual. :D
Here? No. I just said oof. That is all. 😂

[red1]

Here? No. I just said oof. That is all. 😂

its all good buddy. glad you agree kawhi > young rodman as a perimeter defender. :cheers:

[Axe]

its all good buddy. glad you agree kawhi > young rodman as a perimeter defender. :cheers:
Fair enough.

[LostCause]

you're right but whats your point though? I'm saying kawhi is a better perimeter defender and I know I'm right about it because I'd take kawhi over any other player of all-time to guard one play if its an alltime perimeter scorer like mike or kobe. kawhi is a BEAST of a defender has length,instincts, hands, toughness, everything.

So you know you're right because you'll take him over anyone else? That's not an argument

Rodman had all of the bolded, btw. Regardless of whether you'd take Kawhi over Rodman or not, your claim was MJ never faced anyone on his level. You won't find many people who'd agree Kawhi is on another level defensively over a peak Rodman


and in any case you're strengthening my point because rodman was on the bulls

Your point isn't strengthened. Maybe if MJ didn't face Rodman, but he beat his team in the playoffs the year Dennis won DPOY. Slow down & respond rationally because what you're saying makes no sense, or is this how you normally go about things?


and I what I said is that MJ didnt face any perimeter defender like kawhi in the finals.

Here's what you actually said


he's never seen a defender on that level

Nothing about only the Finals, which btw is irrelevant. What impact does it being the Finals or Conference Finals have on defensive ability? Regardless, it's still debatable


I'd say gp was the closest thing to an elite defender on that level and I'd say kawhi would be much better at covering mj because he'd have the size and length advantage, not the other way around.

Possibly, but a size/length advantage doesn't always make someone better at stopping a great scorer. It helps, but it's not definitive. Tony Allen for example is 6'4 with a 6'9 wingspan and has defended KD/Kobe better than anyone. Both of them have straight up said he's the best defender they've faced and he's arguably the GOAT perimeter defender
https://youtu.be/vf31lsw5tFM?t=129

As for GP, as great a defender as he was many people would say McMillan was the better defender between them on those Sonics teams. Seeing as you weren't familiar with Rodman prior to his Bulls stint you probably don't know who he is outside of coaching. He's a bit bigger than Payton and is ranked 2nd all time in DBPM, behind David Robinson and above people like Draymond, Ben Wallace and Kawhi Leonard. So it's not like MJ only went up against 1 great defender that series


OP is the one who opened that can of worms not me by trashing the teams that the cavs and heat beat. in reality all 3 teams would beat all of mj's finals competition.

It's debatable. Do you actually know enough about MJ's opponents to make that claim though? Legit question, not trying to talk shit. Just seems that based on you not knowing much about Rodman prior to his Bulls years (Even though he was on the 2x Champ Pistons), I don't see how you'd know much about other teams from the 90s. So what are you basing it on? Feeling?


FYI that was definitely poorly said - what I should have said is that it wasnt rodmans job with the bulls which is where I mostly saw him play in replays of games

That would make more sense but then it makes 0 sense for you to attempt to argue something you admittedly have little knowledge of (Young Rodman). That's just trolling

[red1]

So you know you're right because you'll take him over anyone else? That's not an argument

Rodman had all of the bolded, btw. Regardless of whether you'd take Kawhi over Rodman or not, your claim was MJ never faced anyone on his level. You won't find many people who'd agree Kawhi is on another level defensively over a peak Rodman



Your point isn't strengthened. Maybe if MJ didn't face Rodman, but he beat his team in the playoffs the year Dennis won DPOY. Slow down & respond rationally because what you're saying makes no sense, or is this how you normally go about things?



Here's what you actually said



Nothing about only the Finals, which btw is irrelevant. What impact does it being the Finals or Conference Finals have on defensive ability? Regardless, it's still debatable



Possibly, but a size/length advantage doesn't always make someone better at stopping a great scorer. It helps, but it's not definitive. Tony Allen for example is 6'4 with a 6'9 wingspan and has defended KD/Kobe better than anyone. Both of them have straight up said he's the best defender they've faced and he's arguably the GOAT perimeter defender
https://youtu.be/vf31lsw5tFM?t=129


That would make more sense but then it makes 0 sense for you to attempt to argue something you admittedly have little knowledge of (Young Rodman). That's just trolling
this is what I actually said:


absolutely not. I think kawhi is the greatest perimeter defender of all-time. maybe pippen or mike.


you think mj is shedding kawhi as easily as he did bryon russell to win the series? hell ****ing no.

I did goof it by saying rodman defended big men because thats what we were talking about and its what I remember - I remember rodman wrestling with shaq and malone.


when rodman was on the bulls his job wasnt defending perimeter players that was obviously scottie and mj. I wasnt thinking of dennis on the pistons but that poster was right.


bulls rodman was defending powerforwards and even massive centers. he used to outrebound shaq and defended him well in the post despite the massive size advantage - but not a massive strength or athleticism advantage because rodman was a freak too.


phil says dennis was more athletic than mike or scottie and kobe agrees: https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/sports/kobe_agrees_with_phil_rodman_was_a_better_athlete_ than_michael_jordan/1839000/



and the reason I was thinking about BULLS rodman is because thats what OP brought up - OP brought up the 98 bulls and the 98 jazz and the 2014 spurs hence the kawhi comparison.


and my point is definitely strengthened because I said that mj never went up against a defender like kawhi in the finals and you just confirmed that for me because the guys we are talking about that might compare are all on the bulls including mike. (mike, scottie or young dennis)




let me ask you this - if your life is on the line and you need to defend mike or kobe for one possession, which player would you choose?



I know my answer and its kawhi every single time.

[FromDowntown]

https://i.postimg.cc/L5wvShHQ/espn-stats-info-stats-espnstatslinfo-info-each-of-lebron-23113365.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV_dNd5WsAESgN5?format=jpg&name=small

[red1]

https://i.postimg.cc/L5wvShHQ/espn-stats-info-stats-espnstatslinfo-info-each-of-lebron-23113365.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV_dNd5WsAESgN5?format=jpg&name=small

I dont like these stats - its moreso about talent and fit


people that knock the spurs for being old like OP are intentionally ignoring the fact that they have 10 guys who contribute at a high level plus 4 hall of fame players plus a ton of experience and all-time level coaching


I would take the 2013 and 2014 spurs in a series over every single one of those western conference finals teams in the chart


spurs are going to be very underrated in the future

[SATAN]

Spurs had a great team. Terrible thread.

[FromDowntown]

I dont like these stats - its moreso about talent and fit


people that knock the spurs for being old like OP are intentionally ignoring the fact that they have 10 guys who contribute at a high level plus 4 hall of fame players plus a ton of experience and all-time level coaching


I would take the 2013 and 2014 spurs in a series over every single one of those western conference finals teams in the chart


spurs are going to be very underrated in the future

2014 Spurs were ranked 2nd best of the 15 teams MJ and LBJ faced.

[Stanley Kobrick]

this is what I actually said:



I did goof it by saying rodman defended big men because thats what we were talking about and its what I remember - I remember rodman wrestling with shaq and malone.


when rodman was on the bulls his job wasnt defending perimeter players that was obviously scottie and mj. I wasnt thinking of dennis on the pistons but that poster was right.


bulls rodman was defending powerforwards and even massive centers. he used to outrebound shaq and defended him well in the post despite the massive size advantage - but not a massive strength or athleticism advantage because rodman was a freak too.


phil says dennis was more athletic than mike or scottie and kobe agrees: https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/sports/kobe_agrees_with_phil_rodman_was_a_better_athlete_ than_michael_jordan/1839000/



and the reason I was thinking about BULLS rodman is because thats what OP brought up - OP brought up the 98 bulls and the 98 jazz and the 2014 spurs hence the kawhi comparison.


and my point is definitely strengthened because I said that mj never went up against a defender like kawhi in the finals and you just confirmed that for me because the guys we are talking about that might compare are all on the bulls including mike. (mike, scottie or young dennis)




let me ask you this - if your life is on the line and you need to defend mike or kobe for one possession, which player would you choose?



I know my answer and its kawhi every single time.
I agree with you Red1

[red1]

they were 1 shot from being 6/6 in the finals :oldlol:


https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2014-nba-finals-heat-vs-spurs.html


look at that roster and look at those shooting percentages. they had useful role-players guys like bellinelli and aron baynes buried on the bench - hard to make time when you have guys like danny green and patty mills and ginobili and kawhi shooting lights out.


2013 and 2014 spurs were VERY strong teams.


again literally one ray allen shot from going 6/6 and the perception would be very different


I would probably take the old duncan 2013 2014 spurs over any of their other championship versions as well


duncan is older and not nearly as dominant but they are so much stronger everywhere else. they didnt have to play so-called boring grind them out spurs-style basketball memphis took that crown from them this decade.


they actually had the ability this time around to blitz teams and slice teams apart with their offense. which they did to the west as well including good teams like the thunder.


very underrated team.

[ninephive]

the spurs were 10 deep with great shooters at every position and a great system meanwhile the heat were hobbled - you could tell the deep runs were getting to everyone except lebron who still seemed fresh.


duncan wasn't even the spurs best player - who knows who it was. they had ginobili, kawhi, hell patty mills going off from three.


and the fact that the heat seemed sluggish and slow only compounded the problems because they got destroyed by the ballmovement.


to me wade was the biggest culprit and the reason they struggled - he couldnt run. literally couldnt run.


"hurr durr tim duncan was 38"


"and in 2017 kd ate his lunch."





**** outta here kid.
Uhh, considering Parker was the only All-Star and only All-NBA player on that team, and considering he led them in points and assists throughout the regular season, playoffs, and Finals, I would say he was.

[red1]

Uhh, considering Parker was the only All-Star and only All-NBA player on that team, and considering he led them in points and assists throughout the regular season, playoffs, and Finals, I would say he was.
yeah thats reasonable. could make a case for duncan or kawhi as well.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Rodman was obviously a great defender. But if he was such a great perimeter defender, why didn't he guard Mike? Why was Dumars defending Mj? Jordan faced same level of defenders in his career. Just not at his position. And I agree that Kawhi is the best perimeter defender of all time.

[GimmeThat]

might be an argument that point guard is the position that has more leverage in attacking from the strong side than big man.

[LostCause]

and my point is definitely strengthened because I said that mj never went up against a defender like kawhi in the finals

Disagree you said that but w/e. Moving on


let me ask you this - if your life is on the line and you need to defend mike or kobe for one possession, which player would you choose?

Tony Allen

[red1]

Disagree you said that but w/e. Moving on



Tony Allen

how can you disagree with a fact? I even posted it for you again. :oldlol:


absolutely not. I think kawhi is the greatest perimeter defender of all-time. maybe pippen or mike.


you think mj is shedding kawhi as easily as he did bryon russell to win the series? hell ****ing no.

[LostCause]

how can you disagree with a fact? I even posted it for you again. :oldlol:

Bro what are you even talking about?

I initially responded to this statement (Notice "in the Finals" isn't part of it):

he's never seen a defender on that level

What you quoted was your reply to me. Not the original statement. You even repeated it again:

I'll still say he hasn't faced a defender on kawhi's level.

I'm not sure if you're amnesic or have some other shit going on but posting a quote you made in response to me as if that was your original position is dumb as hell

[red1]

Bro what are you even talking about?

I initially responded to this statement (Notice "in the Finals" isn't part of it):


What you quoted was your reply to me. Not the original statement. You even repeated it again:


I'm not sure if you're amnesic or have some other shit going on but posting a quote you made in response to me as if that was your original position is dumb as hell

use your brain. we're obviously talking about perimeter players. OP was talking about guarding MJ. you think I'd be talking about powerforwards or centers trying to guard mike? or pointguards that he'd just shoot over?


and that response that I sent you was before you started arguing semantics. I made it clear as day.

[LostCause]

use your brain. we're obviously talking about perimeter players. OP was talking about guarding MJ. you think I'd be talking about powerforwards or centers trying to guard mike? or pointguards that he'd just shoot over?

What are you talking about? You do understand Rodman played Small Forward (Same position as Kawhi) for most of his early years, right? Where'd this powerforward/centers nonsense come from. Also, point guards are perimeter players

Not continuing the other shit, already showed the quotes. Don't have an issue with folks trying to save face

[Docs Orders]

LostCause having a glorious meltdown across multiple threads on the front page


wee little insecure MJ stan :oldlol:

[LostCause]

LostCause having a glorious meltdown across multiple threads on the front page


wee little insecure MJ stan :oldlol:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/QuickSevereCat-max-1mb.gif

Sure weirdo lol

[red1]

What are you talking about? You do understand Rodman played Small Forward (Same position as Kawhi) for most of his early years, right? Where'd this powerforward/centers nonsense come from. Also, point guards are perimeter players

Not continuing the other shit, already showed the quotes. Don't have an issue with folks trying to save face
:facepalm


you're talking yourself into circles dude.

[red1]

Bro what are you even talking about?

I initially responded to this statement (Notice "in the Finals" isn't part of it):


What you quoted was your reply to me. Not the original statement. You even repeated it again:


I'm not sure if you're amnesic or have some other shit going on but posting a quote you made in response to me as if that was your original position is dumb as hell

:facepalm


in any case I already shared my views.

[Roundball_Rock]

Wade 15/4/3
Bosh 14/5/1
LeBron 28/8/4

Parker 18/0/5
Kawhi 18/6/2
Duncan 15/10/2
Manu 14/3/4

LeBron is the one who sucked in the series?

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade 15/4/3
Bosh 14/5/1
LeBron 28/8/4

Parker 18/0/5
Kawhi 18/6/2
Duncan 15/10/2
Manu 14/3/4

LeBron is the one who sucked in the series?
That's the most retarded part of these threads. A team loses and literally the only player who plays well gets blamed :oldlol: Absolutely no logic behind it. You can blame LeBron for a few of his losses pre 2012. Since then? He has not been the reason for his team losing

[RRR3]

Wade 15/4/3
Bosh 14/5/1
LeBron 28/8/4

Parker 18/0/5
Kawhi 18/6/2
Duncan 15/10/2
Manu 14/3/4

LeBron is the one who sucked in the series?
Had to look up because I thought this was a typo. Dude really averaged 0.4 RPG in 35.2 MPG that series :biggums:

[red1]

Had to look up because I thought this was a typo. Dude really averaged 0.4 RPG in 35.2 MPG that series :biggums:

:oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

That's the most retarded part of these threads. A team loses and literally the only player who plays well gets blamed :oldlol: Absolutely no logic behind it. You can blame LeBron for a few of his losses pre 2012. Since then? He has not been the reason for his team losing

Exactly. LeBron goes 36/13/9 with his second and third best players down and these guys blame him for losing to a 67 win team.

[Kblaze8855]

It really is painful reading people argue about people they clearly don’t remember. Dennis is one of the easiest to tell when people have no clue. That guy was....pretty ****ing ridiculous despite having almost none of his athletic prime in his basketball prime. He was in his early thirties still on the pistons. That’s what being a 25 year old rookie will do.

[Da_Realist]

Rodman was obviously a great defender. But if he was such a great perimeter defender, why didn't he guard Mike? Why was Dumars defending Mj? Jordan faced same level of defenders in his career. Just not at his position. And I agree that Kawhi is the best perimeter defender of all time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEpHpNSX4Mg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKtur6F5Jy0

[Naero]

I don't hold the series that harshly against LeBron because of his teammates' underperformances, but I'm surprised how much revisionism his stans get away with. :oldlol:

By the current narrative, you'd think those Spurs were heavily favored moving into the Finals, yet Vegas pegged both teams about as close to an oddsmaking wash as calculable: -120 for San Antonio and +100 for the Miami, with the break-even edge allotted to the Spurs because of HCA. They even recalculated the Heat as the clear-cut favorites after they stole Game 2 on the road, when #HeatThreepeat trended wildly.

Then the Spurs vanquished them by record margins in the last-three games, and they were suddenly considered an unbeatable juggernaut. :rolleyes: Never mind that they only scraped through the West prior and had no prime-time Hall of Famer, which LeBron and Heat fans were all salivating.

Look up the preseries predictions, and tell me it wouldn't have sounded outlandish at the time to predict a gentleman's sweep in the Spurs' favor.

They're still more or less an all-time-great team, but they probably benefit the most from rose-colored hindsight out of all champions.

[FromDowntown]

I don't hold the series that harshly against LeBron because of his teammates' underperformances, but I'm surprised how much revisionism his stans get away with. :oldlol:

By the current narrative, you'd think those Spurs were heavily favored moving into the Finals, yet Vegas pegged both teams about as close to an oddsmaking wash as calculable: -120 for San Antonio and +100 for the Miami, with the break-even edge allotted to the Spurs because of HCA. They even recalculated the Heat as the clear-cut favorites after they stole Game 2 on the road, when #HeatThreepeat trended wildly.

Then the Spurs vanquished them by record margins in the last-three games, and they were suddenly considered an unbeatable juggernaut. :rolleyes: Never mind that they only scraped through the West prior and had no prime-time Hall of Famer, which LeBron and Heat fans were all salivating.

Look up the preseries predictions, and tell me it wouldn't have sounded outlandish at the time to predict a gentleman's sweep in the Spurs' favor.

They're still more or less an all-time-great team, but they probably benefit the most from rose-colored hindsight out of all champions.

Wade put on an all time top 10 worst Finals #2 ever

[34-24 Footwork]

The Lebron stans were calling this the GOAT team before the Warriors. Lol. Just a reminder, OP.

You're dealing with a delusional bunch.

[34-24 Footwork]

Also, the 2014 'GOAT' Spurs teams lost in the first round to the Clippers the following year.

Then the Warriors won...and the stans have called them the GOAT team ever since. It's a cycle.

[34-24 Footwork]

Oh yeah - There's another game that the Lebron stans like to play. Let's play.

The Spurs were going up against SIX HOFs on the HEAT and the Spurs had FOUR HOFs.

Duncan
Manu
Leonard
Parker

vs

Wade
Lebron
Ray
Lewis
Battier
Bosh


All things considered, it was a miracle that the Spurs pulled it off.

[3ball]

Wade put on an all time top 10 worst Finals #2 ever

But the Spurs won by specifically exploiting the poor fit between Wade/lebron, and Bosh had been reduced to spot-up shooter so he couldn't step up

That's all.lebron's fault... Bron-ball... Always solved and exploited in the end

Why is it okay for lebron to get taught basketball lessons in his prime? Isn't he supposed to be administering lessons on the best way to play?

Ultimately, the bron-ball was solved and massively underachieved their regular season ORtg - the solved/weaker offense allowed the Spurs' defense to work less and be fresher for offense - lebron-ball always loses the attrition battle in this manner.. his ball-domination doesn't shift defenses/wear down teams as much as the ball movement he faces at the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off.. this makes it look like lebron's teams aren't playing defense but they're just losing the attrition battle... In a cage fight, the losing fighter must mount material OFFENSE, or the ref will stop it.
The best defense is a good offense, but unfortunately, bron-ball can't apply as much pressure as they face from ball movement at the championship level

[3ball]

.
Thread Cliffs:


bron-ball was solved and massively underachieved their regular season ORtg - the solved/weaker offense allowed the Spurs' defense to work less and be fresher for offense - lebron-ball always loses the attrition battle in this manner.. his ball-domination doesn't shift defenses/wear down teams as much as the ball movement he faces at the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off.. this makes it look like lebron's teams aren't playing defense but they're just losing the attrition battle..

In a cage fight, the losing fighter must mount material OFFENSE, or the ref will stop it.. The best defense is a good offense, but unfortunately, bron-ball can't apply as much pressure as they face from ball movement at the championship level

[SATAN]

Mental illness.

[dreamshake]

the spurs were 10 deep with great shooters at every position and a great system meanwhile the heat were hobbled - you could tell the deep runs were getting to everyone except lebron who still seemed fresh.


duncan wasn't even the spurs best player - who knows who it was. they had ginobili, kawhi, hell patty mills going off from three.


and the fact that the heat seemed sluggish and slow only compounded the problems because they got destroyed by the ballmovement.


to me wade was the biggest culprit and the reason they struggled - he couldnt run. literally couldnt run.


"hurr durr tim duncan was 38"


"and in 2017 kd ate his lunch."





**** outta here kid.

OP got this kid mad as fk 😂

[red1]

Also, the 2014 'GOAT' Spurs teams lost in the first round to the Clippers the following year.

Then the Warriors won...and the stans have called them the GOAT team ever since. It's a cycle.
why are you making shit up? if anything everyone says the spurs were old and weak.

which is completely wrong and what I'm pushing back against - they were actually very good. obviously.


OP got this kid mad as fk ��

silence fanboy

https://media.vlipsy.com/vlips/K9DIhau4/preview-small.jpg


It really is painful reading people argue about people they clearly don’t remember. Dennis is one of the easiest to tell when people have no clue. That guy was....pretty ****ing ridiculous despite having almost none of his athletic prime in his basketball prime. He was in his early thirties still on the pistons. That’s what being a 25 year old rookie will do.

Im guilty of that too I mostly remember him for his bulls days.


to me thats already impressive enough because outrebounding shaq and holding your own in the post not getting pushed around by some of the strongest players of all-time shows an insane amount of strength and stamina.

[red1]

Oh yeah - There's another game that the Lebron stans like to play. Let's play.

The Spurs were going up against SIX HOFs on the HEAT and the Spurs had FOUR HOFs.

Duncan
Manu
Leonard
Parker

vs

Wade
Lebron
Ray
Lewis
Battier
Bosh


All things considered, it was a miracle that the Spurs pulled it off.

sometimes you just have to actually watch the series to understand what's happening.

[Axe]

OP got this kid mad as fk 😂
And the op was the dominant diesel man from 00s. 😂

[red1]

And the op was the dominant diesel man from 00s. ��

hey man its a very common claim just had to add my two cents.


people trash the spurs all the time. usually the same group that props up curry during the regular season but then trashes the warriors as a team during the playoffs. gee I wonder why.

[Axe]

hey man its a very common claim just had to add my two cents.


people trash the spurs all the time. usually the same group that props up curry during the regular season but then trashes the warriors as a team during the playoffs. gee I wonder why.
Wtf you talking about?

[red1]

Wtf you talking about?

the subject of this entire thread... you did comment on OP right?


what OP posted is a common argument - the spurs being weak.


common argument made by idiots.

[Axe]

the subject of this entire thread... you did comment on OP right?


what OP posted is a common argument - the spurs being weak.


common argument made by idiots.
Ok. But i didn't care tho if it was valid or not, since i was just talking about his username after all. :oldlol: