Which championship run was Pippen as bad as 2013 Wade?

[Mamba4Life]

LeBron won a championship with Wade averaging 15/4/3 on 45% the entire playoff run


Which championship run was Pippen like that in?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Pippen was putrid offensively in the entire second three peat.

Partly due to hobbling injuries, but also due to the fact he just wasn't a very elite or great scorer. Particularly in half court sets against set defenses. Great in transition due to length and athleticism ... but he didn't have the offensive skill set or creativity. And def not against late 90's defenses, in grind it out, difficult scoring climates.

At no point did Scottie win an entire game in the Finals, on the road, in a pivotal series defining game, like 2013 Wade did. Carrying the Heat with 32 points in game 4, when outcome was still in the balance.

Then Bron came in at some point to stat pad, after the game had already been decided.

Wade was hobbled in 2013 after the reg season winning streak, but they faced such meek cupcake competition in the rounds, he didn't need to put up gaudy numbers. Their toughest comp was young, green, overrated Pacer team.

Either way Scottie was never as great as 2011 Wade. 2012 Wade is comparable to the best Scottie had to offer in 1991 and 1992.

Scottie is an amazing Robin. Prototypical basketball swiss army knife, and the text book definition of GOAT sidekick.

But Wade was an MVP ALPHA franchise corner stone in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and basically 2011 as well. Scottie never had the ability, let alone the mental strength capacity to handle that pressure or burden.

Wade is a top 5 SG ever.

Pippen isn't close to a top 5 SF ever.

[Mamba4Life]

Pippen was putrid offensively in the entire second three peat.

Partly due to hobbling injuries, but also due to the fact he just wasn't a very elite or great scorer. Particularly in half court sets against set defenses. Great in transition due to length and athleticism ... but he didn't have the offensive skill set or creativity. And def not against late 90's defenses, in grind it out, difficult scoring climates.

At no point did Scottie win an entire game in the Finals, on the road, in a pivotal series defining game, like 2013 Wade did. Carrying the Heat with 32 points in game 4, when outcome was still in the balance.

Then Bron came in at some point to stat pad, after the game had already been decided.

Wade was hobbled in 2013 after the reg season winning streak, but they faced such meek cupcake competition in the rounds, he didn't need to put up gaudy numbers. Their toughest comp was young, green, overrated Pacer team.

Either way Scottie was never as great as 2011 Wade. 2012 Wade is comparable to the best Scottie had to offer in 1991 and 1992.

Scottie is an amazing Robin. Prototypical basketball swiss army knife, and the text book definition of GOAT sidekick.

But Wade was an MVP ALPHA franchise corner stone in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and basically 2011 as well. Scottie never had the ability, let alone the mental strength capacity to handle that pressure or burden.

Wade is a top 5 SG ever.

Pippen isn't close to a top 5 SF ever.


So which Championship run?

[SamuraiSWISH]

So which Championship run?
1996 or 1998. Take your pick.

[Roundball_Rock]

1996 or 1998. Take your pick.

This tells you the guy didn't watch or only looks at scoring. Pippen was dominant in the 98' playoffs but since it was on defense.

The answer is none. 96' would be a possibility, but again, there is more to basketball than scoring. They both sucked at scoring in the 96' and 13' playoffs but Pippen still provided elite defense and was the better playmaker.

It is funny he is talking about "elite scoring" when Wade averaged less points than Pippen (15.9 in 13' versus 16.5 for Pippen in 96' in a lower scoring era). Wade's field goal percentage looks better, but Wade could not and did not shoot threes so that explains the difference.

[Roundball_Rock]

But Wade was an MVP ALPHA franchise corner stone in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and basically 2011 as well. Scottie never had the ability, let alone the mental strength capacity to handle that pressure or burden.

This is amusing since they have identical records as MVP candidates. Both were MVP candidates once and both finished 3rd those years. Both also had a second 5th place finish.

How did that franchise do with that "MVP alpha"? There was early success but Shaq was the "MVP alpha" (2nd to Nash in one of the closest races in 05') and then a top 10 player in 2006. What happened after Shaq no longer was a star? 44-38, 15-67 (alpha!), 43-39, 47-35. Three first round defeats and missing the playoffs badly in his prime.

What people forget about Wade is he couldn't stay on the court. He got hurt year after year after year. You can't be "alpha" wearing a suit for 20-30 games each year.

[TheCorporation]

So which Championship run?

Get. His. Ass. :lol

[guy]

Those Wade numbers are brought down because he was basically coasting those first 2 rounds against the Bucks and Bulls who were without both Rose and Deng. He was taking like 12 shots per game and playing less than 35 mpg in those rounds (even missed a game). No one at the time was saying he was struggling against the Bucks and Bulls cause no one took those seriously since they were never in danger of losing and Wade at that time of his career with both Lebron and Bosh on his team could afford to conserve himself and did so given his age/injury history. These numbers hide that context. He wasn't that good against Indiana though, but definitely was against San Antonio.

You could probably say the same for Pippen for some of those playoff runs where he was putrid offensively, which is probably why they get swept under the rug for the most part. Since Wade was more recent though and there's a constant narrative that "Lebron needs more help" thats probably the reason Wade's runs don't.

[tpols]

2013 Wade had by far his best series when they needed it... in the Finals.

Fun fact: Wade and Lebron had a worse on/off together than they did apart. How the **** can that be if not poor fit / teamwork?

:biggums:

Who cares what he did vs garbage in the east? They were calling the team the miami cavaliers because Lebron Ball was in full effect.

[HoopsNY]

This tells you the guy didn't watch or only looks at scoring. Pippen was dominant in the 98' playoffs but since it was on defense.

The answer is none. 96' would be a possibility, but again, there is more to basketball than scoring. They both sucked at scoring in the 96' and 13' playoffs but Pippen still provided elite defense and was the better playmaker.

It is funny he is talking about "elite scoring" when Wade averaged less points than Pippen (15.9 in 13' versus 16.5 for Pippen in 96' in a lower scoring era). Wade's field goal percentage looks better, but Wade could not and did not shoot threes so that explains the difference.

You raise some valid points, but Wade could hold his own defensively as well. In addition, Wade and Pippen both shot the same in 2p fg% and Wade was slightly higher in the playoffs. Also keep in mind that the 1995-96 season had a shorter 3 pt line.

And I wouldn't exactly call 1995-96 a lower scoring era. The league scoring average in 1995-96 was 99.5 compared to 98.1 in 2012-13.

[Mamba4Life]

Wade: 15.9 ppg, 4.8 apg, 2.6 tov, on 49.8% TS and mediocre defensively


Tell me a worse Pippen run

[HoopsNY]

This is amusing since they have identical records as MVP candidates. Both were MVP candidates once and both finished 3rd those years. Both also had a second 5th place finish.

How did that franchise do with that "MVP alpha"? There was early success but Shaq was the "MVP alpha" (2nd to Nash in one of the closest races in 05') and then a top 10 player in 2006. What happened after Shaq no longer was a star? 44-38, 15-67 (alpha!), 43-39, 47-35. Three first round defeats and missing the playoffs badly in his prime.

What people forget about Wade is he couldn't stay on the court. He got hurt year after year after year. You can't be "alpha" wearing a suit for 20-30 games each year.

You're really underrating Wade's play prior to LeBron joining Miami. For one, Wade's 2006 finals performance ranks among the all time best. And between 2003-2010, Wade's numbers are up there with Kobe and LeBron.

[AirBonner]

You're really underrating Wade's play prior to LeBron joining Miami. For one, Wade's 2006 finals performance ranks among the all time best. And between 2003-2010, Wade's numbers are up there with Kobe and LeBron.

Yeah that version of Wade never played with LeBron

[Turbo Slayer]

Yeah that version of Wade never played with LeBron Forgetting 11' Wade?

[HoopsNY]

Yeah that version of Wade never played with LeBron

I'd say he did in 2010-11 and 2011-2012. If the Heat managed to beat Dallas, Wade probably wins finals MVP. Keep in mind Wade sees a pretty big drop in fg attempts, free throw attempts, and usg% when LeBron comes to town. You have to factor that in as well.

[SouBeachTalents]

This is amusing since they have identical records as MVP candidates. Both were MVP candidates once and both finished 3rd those years. Both also had a second 5th place finish.

How did that franchise do with that "MVP alpha"? There was early success but Shaq was the "MVP alpha" (2nd to Nash in one of the closest races in 05') and then a top 10 player in 2006. What happened after Shaq no longer was a star? 44-38, 15-67 (alpha!), 43-39, 47-35. Three first round defeats and missing the playoffs badly in his prime.

What people forget about Wade is he couldn't stay on the court. He got hurt year after year after year. You can't be "alpha" wearing a suit for 20-30 games each year.
You're easily one of the best posters on this godforsaken website, but you really downplay how good Wade was, I've seen you do it several times. He may have never been MVP, but just from eye test alone Wade was clearly a better player in his prime than Pippen was. Shaq by the '05 & '06 playoffs was no longer some superstar player, Wade was carrying the bulk of the load those playoff runs. And Pippen in his wildest dreams could never replicate what Wade was doing in those playoffs, or in the '09 season. You put Pippen on those '08-'10 Heat teams they don't have any more success

[AirBonner]

Forgetting 11' Wade?

Don’t get me wrong that Wade was very good but he wasnt nearly the monster of 06 Wade

[HoopsNY]

You're easily one of the best posters on this godforsaken website, but you really downplay how good Wade was, I've seen you do it several times. He may have never been MVP, but just from eye test alone Wade was clearly a better player in his prime than Pippen was. Shaq by the '05 & '06 playoffs was no longer some superstar player, Wade was carrying the bulk of the load those playoff runs. And Pippen in his wildest dreams could never replicate what Wade was doing in those playoffs, or in the '09 season. You put Pippen on those '08-'10 Heat teams they don't have any more success

Agreed. Wade was a 25.5-5-6.6 player shooting 48% before the super-team. In addition, he had 3 All-Defensive 2nd team selections and I honestly believe by about 2008-2010, Wade was a better defender than Kobe but Kobe always secured 1st team All-Defensive. Wade was a terrific on the ball defender.

And even within his first two seasons with diminished touches and a reduced role, Wade averaged over 24 ppg and shot 50%. He'll go down as a top 5 SG of all time, easily.

[Turbo Slayer]

Don’t get me wrong that Wade was very good but he wasnt nearly the monster of 06 Wade

Lets take the 2 year peak/prime of Wade. (2006 to 2007)

2006 Wade

37.6 points, 10 assists, and 7 rebounds...

FT% 80
2P% 51
3P% 22

BPM-8
VORP-12
OBPM-6
DBPM-1.8
WS/48- .231

2011 Wade

36.3 points, 6.5 assists, and 9 rebounds...

FT% 76
2P% 53
3P% 31 (also the attempted 3's increase from 1.7 to 4)

BPM- 6.6
VORP-6.1
OBPM-5.5
DBPM-1
WS/48-.218

He was still a beast in 11 though!

(Note: His advanced stats slightly cratered but that's due to playing with 2 other stars.)

Points per 100 possessions and advanced stats in effect!

Link here: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html

[Turbo Slayer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rdpa06LqSo

[Turbo Slayer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNADYTflhRw

[guy]

This is amusing since they have identical records as MVP candidates. Both were MVP candidates once and both finished 3rd those years. Both also had a second 5th place finish.

How did that franchise do with that "MVP alpha"? There was early success but Shaq was the "MVP alpha" (2nd to Nash in one of the closest races in 05') and then a top 10 player in 2006. What happened after Shaq no longer was a star? 44-38, 15-67 (alpha!), 43-39, 47-35. Three first round defeats and missing the playoffs badly in his prime.

What people forget about Wade is he couldn't stay on the court. He got hurt year after year after year. You can't be "alpha" wearing a suit for 20-30 games each year.

Did you not watch in 06? I don't know how anyone can argue Shaq was their "MVP" in 06. Wade was clearly their best player. How did that franchise do? They won a championship early in his career as their "MVP". What more do you want? :oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Agreed. Wade was a 25.5-5-6.6 player shooting 48% before the super-team. In addition, he had 3 All-Defensive 2nd team selections and I honestly believe by about 2008-2010, Wade was a better defender than Kobe but Kobe always secured 1st team All-Defensive. Wade was a terrific on the ball defender.

And even within his first two seasons with diminished touches and a reduced role, Wade averaged over 24 ppg and shot 50%. He'll go down as a top 5 SG of all time, easily.
This


Did you not watch in 06? I don't know how anyone can argue Shaq was their "MVP" in 06. Wade was clearly their best player. How did that franchise do? They won a championship early in his career as their "MVP". What more do you want? :oldlol:
Bro Wade was they best player by the 2005 playoffs. The fall off in the ECF when he was injured is proof.


Those Wade numbers are brought down because he was basically coasting those first 2 rounds against the Bucks and Bulls who were without both Rose and Deng. He was taking like 12 shots per game and playing less than 35 mpg in those rounds (even missed a game). No one at the time was saying he was struggling against the Bucks and Bulls cause no one took those seriously since they were never in danger of losing and Wade at that time of his career with both Lebron and Bosh on his team could afford to conserve himself and did so given his age/injury history. These numbers hide that context. He wasn't that good against Indiana though, but definitely was against San Antonio.

You could probably say the same for Pippen for some of those playoff runs where he was putrid offensively, which is probably why they get swept under the rug for the most part. Since Wade was more recent though and there's a constant narrative that "Lebron needs more help" thats probably the reason Wade's runs don't.
LOL truth

You're really underrating Wade's play prior to LeBron joining Miami. For one, Wade's 2006 finals performance ranks among the all time best. And between 2003-2010, Wade's numbers are up there with Kobe and LeBron.
More truth


2013 Wade had by far his best series when they needed it... in the Finals.

Fun fact: Wade and Lebron had a worse on/off together than they did apart. How the **** can that be if not poor fit / teamwork?

:biggums:

Who cares what he did vs garbage in the east? They were calling the team the miami cavaliers because Lebron Ball was in full effect.
More facts

Roundball Rock has always been an obsessed LeBron Stan, who underrates (MJ / Wade / Kobe) and props up Pippen undeservingly as a BEARD.

[Roundball_Rock]

You're easily one of the best posters on this godforsaken website, but you really downplay how good Wade was, I've seen you do it several times. He may have never been MVP, but just from eye test alone Wade was clearly a better player in his prime than Pippen was. Shaq by the '05 & '06 playoffs was no longer some superstar player

I consider Wade a top 25-30 all-time player, so similar to Pippen. Yes, he was better at his peak than Pippen and a lot of other people but I have to ding him for his lack of durability. I just don't get why a guy who consistently missed significant time is compared at face value with guys who didn't. If you got Wade for 82 games that's a different conversation but that's not what Wade did after 2006. It happened year after year from 2007-2016. 31, 31, 3, 5, 6, 17, 13, 28, 20, 8. So other than 2008-2010 and his last all-star year it was 10+ every time.

Shaq is underrated in Miami. Look at Miami's record without him in 2006 and 2007--and compare it to Miami's minus Wade.

2007

Miami with Shaq, without Wade: 16-8
Miami with Wade, without Shaq: 13-12

2006

Miami with Shaq, without Wade: 4-1
Miami with Wade, without Shaq: 11-11

These are the years where Wade supposedly "carried" the team. If so, how do you explain these numbers when Shaq wasn't around? Most people don't know this so I don't give Wade the same credit most people do for these years and give Shaq more.

Wade is a great player and at his peak he rivaled Kobe but for all-time purposes his lack of durability hurts him and he gets a lot of mileage out of 2006 because people assume Shaq was washed up because Shaq didn't do much in the finals (he had a great ECF, though).

[Roundball_Rock]

Roundball Rock has always been an obsessed LeBron Stan, who underrates (MJ / Wade / Kobe) and props up Pippen undeservingly as a BEARD.

This guy is a piece of work. Now he calls me a LeBron stan--for years he called me a Kobe stan. He doesn't have the capability to process that Pippen actually had fans.

[red1]

roundball rock is a great poster.


I love his unbiased take on pippen. :cheers:

[Roundball_Rock]

roundball rock is a great poster.


I love his unbiased take on pippen. :cheers:

:cheers:

[guy]

I consider Wade a top 25-30 all-time player, so similar to Pippen. Yes, he was better at his peak than Pippen and a lot of other people but I have to ding him for his lack of durability. I just don't get why a guy who consistently missed significant time is compared at face value with guys who didn't. If you got Wade for 82 games that's a different conversation but that's not what Wade did after 2006. It happened year after year from 2007-2016. 31, 31, 3, 5, 6, 17, 13, 28, 20, 8. So other than 2008-2010 and his last all-star year it was 10+ every time.

Shaq is underrated in Miami. Look at Miami's record without him in 2006 and 2007--and compare it to Miami's minus Wade.

2007

Miami with Shaq, without Wade: 16-8
Miami with Wade, without Shaq: 13-12

2006

Miami with Shaq, without Wade: 4-1
Miami with Wade, without Shaq: 11-11

These are the years where Wade supposedly "carried" the team. If so, how do you explain these numbers when Shaq wasn't around? Most people don't know this so I don't give Wade the same credit most people do for these years and give Shaq more.

Wade is a great player and at his peak he rivaled Kobe but for all-time purposes his lack of durability hurts him and he gets a lot of mileage out of 2006 because people assume Shaq was washed up because Shaq didn't do much in the finals (he had a great ECF, though).

Did you even bother to look at who the Heat played in those 5 games without Wade in 2006? There 1 loss was to the Suns and there 4 wins were against the Bobcats (2x), Raptors and Hawks. Those 3 teams each only won 26-27 games that season :oldlol:

It is incredibly stupid to try to define a championship season and those 2’s contribution to it by 5 meaningless regular season games mostly against shitty competition. I mean really think about it. Does that not sound absolutely crazy?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Pip wasnt anything special in the 2nd 3peat postseasons

47TS
52TS
50TS

specially 98. Kukoc was MJs most reliable option in the 98 run and he bailed out Pip alot. Pip was injured that whole season, missed half the RS and was broken down in the playoffs

hell they clinched the title in game 6 with Pip leaving the game and playing like 20 overall minutes

[TheCorporation]

I consider Wade a top 25-30 all-time player, so similar to Pippen. Yes, he was better at his peak than Pippen and a lot of other people but I have to ding him for his lack of durability. I just don't get why a guy who consistently missed significant time is compared at face value with guys who didn't. If you got Wade for 82 games that's a different conversation but that's not what Wade did after 2006. It happened year after year from 2007-2016. 31, 31, 3, 5, 6, 17, 13, 28, 20, 8. So other than 2008-2010 and his last all-star year it was 10+ every time.

Shaq is underrated in Miami. Look at Miami's record without him in 2006 and 2007--and compare it to Miami's minus Wade.

2007

Miami with Shaq, without Wade: 16-8
Miami with Wade, without Shaq: 13-12

2006

Miami with Shaq, without Wade: 4-1
Miami with Wade, without Shaq: 11-11

These are the years where Wade supposedly "carried" the team. If so, how do you explain these numbers when Shaq wasn't around? Most people don't know this so I don't give Wade the same credit most people do for these years and give Shaq more.

Wade is a great player and at his peak he rivaled Kobe but for all-time purposes his lack of durability hurts him and he gets a lot of mileage out of 2006 because people assume Shaq was washed up because Shaq didn't do much in the finals (he had a great ECF, though).

Plus if I recall correctly, 96 Shaq was still all nba 1st team.

[Roundball_Rock]

Plus if I recall correctly, 96 Shaq was still all nba 1st team.

Yup, it is funny, the "beta" was on the 1st team and the "alpha" on the 2nd team in 2006. I think it is a combination of Shaq having a poor finals (you know, for the first time ever...) and Shaq falling off a lot after 06' that people forget how good he still was.

Anyone who says Kukoc was more important than Pippen in the 98' run didn't watch. Pippen was dominant defensively. In 97' Pippen and Jordan were basically all the scoring. 96' is his worst playoff run during those title runs but you can cherry pick one from any player.

[TheCorporation]

Yup, it is funny, the "beta" was on the 1st team and the "alpha" on the 2nd team in 2006. I think it is a combination of Shaq having a poor finals (you know, for the first time ever...) and Shaq falling off a lot after 06' that people forget how good he still was.

Anyone who says Kukoc was more important than Pippen in the 98' run didn't watch. Pippen was dominant defensively. In 97' Pippen and Jordan were basically all the scoring. 96' is his worst playoff run during those title runs but you can cherry pick one from any player.


Good catch on my typo, I meant 2006 of course but you are high IQ and knew already.

Interesting to see Shaq was still 1st team all nba in 2006. That changes things a bit more.

[guy]

Yup, it is funny, the "beta" was on the 1st team and the "alpha" on the 2nd team in 2006. I think it is a combination of Shaq having a poor finals (you know, for the first time ever...) and Shaq falling off a lot after 06' that people forget how good he still was.

Anyone who says Kukoc was more important than Pippen in the 98' run didn't watch. Pippen was dominant defensively. In 97' Pippen and Jordan were basically all the scoring. 96' is his worst playoff run during those title runs but you can cherry pick one from any player.

Another really bad argument here. Everyone who watched back then and has any common sense knows that the biggest reason for that is cause of the dearth of centers in the league at the time. By your logic, he was a worse player in much of the 90s then he was in 06, which is just not true at all. Wade was also ranked ahead of Shaq in MVP voting that year, so there's that.

[Roundball_Rock]

Interesting to see Shaq was still 1st team all nba in 2006. That changes things a bit more.

He benefited from being at a weaker position but it shows he still was a force. Wade was better by 06' but Shaq was still a top 10 player. People act like he was Cleveland or Boston Shaq by then.

[LeCroix]

I need to know

[ImKobe]

20/4/5 1.9 stl 1.4 blk in the Finals. 32/6/4 6 stls down 1 - 2 on the road, 23/10 2 blocks in Game 7.

[LeCroix]

20/4/5 1.9 stl 1.4 blk in the Finals. 32/6/4 6 stls down 1 - 2 on the road, 23/10 2 blocks in Game 7.

14 ppg before Finals
15 ppg for entire 2013 playoffs

Howd he make it?

[ImKobe]

14 ppg before Finals
15 ppg for entire 2013 playoffs

Howd he make it?

They played no one leading up to the Finals, he coasted against the 38-win Bucks, the 45-win Bulls that were missing Deng and the 49-win Pacers led by Paul George and Roy Hibbert.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

None. Pippen's defense is a tier higher over Wade and made up any offensive gap there ever was. Pippen averaged almost 2 blocks per game in 1997 finals!

The thing is, 2013 finals the heat averaged less points and had a worse offensive rating then Spurs. So in other words, they were lucky to win. Has Jordan's team in the finals ever had the worse offensive rating and less points but still managed to win anyway?

[LeCroix]

They played no one leading up to the Finals, he coasted against the 38-win Bucks, the 45-win Bulls that were missing Deng and the 49-win Pacers led by Paul George and Roy Hibbert.

#6, #1, #3 defense

Goat run

Next

[ImKobe]

#6, #1, #3 defense

Goat run

Next

Bulls didn't have Deng, so they weren't nearly as good as in the RS.

[LeCroix]

Bulls didn't have Deng, so they weren't nearly as good as in the RS.

Goat run, find better

#6, #1, #3 defense

Back to back to back

[ImKobe]

Goat run, find better

#6, #1, #3 defense

Back to back to back

Act like it's the only time someone's faced three top 10 defenses in the Playoffs

Kobe
01: 9th, 7th, 1st, 5th
02: 2nd, 6th, 1st
09: 10th, 4th, 8th, 1st
10: 9th, 10th, 5th

[LeCroix]

Act like it's the only time someone's faced three top 10 defenses in the Playoffs

Kobe
01: 9th, 7th, 1st, 5th
02: 2nd, 6th, 1st
09: 10th, 4th, 8th, 1st
10: 9th, 10th, 5th

Odd I did nt know Kobe won FMVP in 01 or 02 :lol

Got'm

So Kobe's best was:
4th, 8th, 1st

LBJ's best
6th, 1st, 3rd

Too funny we win again

[ImKobe]

Odd I did nt know Kobe won FMVP in 01 or 02 :lol

Got'm

So Kobe's best was:
4th, 8th, 1st

LBJ's best
6th, 1st, 3rd

Too funny we win again

Except the teams Kobe faced actually had great offenses. Lebron played the Bulls without Deng and the Spurs with an injured Tony Parker and a 37 y.o Duncan.

[RRR3]

Except the teams Kobe faced actually had great offenses. Lebron played the Bulls without Deng and the Spurs with an injured Tony Parker and a 37 y.o Duncan.
Worth noting that LeBron did better statistically than Kobe against the 09 Magic, 10 Celtics and Billups/Hamilton/Prince/Wallace/Wallace Pistons. Kobe did better against the Spurs (07 vs. 08 I believe?) and the 08 Celtics.

[ImKobe]

Worth noting that LeBron did better statistically than Kobe against the 09 Magic, 10 Celtics and Billups/Hamilton/Prince/Wallace/Wallace Pistons. Kobe did better against the Spurs (07 vs. 08 I believe?) and the 08 Celtics.

Lebron didn't play the 04 Pistons, got to account for rule changes and Sheed/Wallace being older + no Larry Brown in 06, they replaced Wallace with a washed up C-Webb when they lost in 07. Wouldn't say he did better against Boston with the 3 straight losses and a really weird Game 6.

[Smoke117]

Except the teams Kobe faced actually had great offenses. Lebron played the Bulls without Deng and the Spurs with an injured Tony Parker and a 37 y.o Duncan.

Hahahha, going on about injured players when the Celtics were better in 09 than they were in 08 before Garnett went down. Kobe only even has that 09 championship Because he got injured. You then have the fact that Zo went down before the 2001 season. With the acquisitions of Eddie Jones and Brian Grant it was gearing up to be an obvious Heat vs Lakers finals until Zo lost the entire season due to his kidney ailment. A kobe fan has shit to say about the misfortune of other teams helping his favorite player.

[LeCroix]

Lebron didn't play the 04 Pistons, got to account for rule changes and Sheed/Wallace being older + no Larry Brown in 06, they replaced Wallace with a washed up C-Webb when they lost in 07. Wouldn't say he did better against Boston with the 3 straight losses and a really weird Game 6.

Numbnuts hes talking about 2006 when he went 7 games with Detroit and did

27-9-6-1.5-1

[ImKobe]

Numbnuts hes talking about 2006 when he went 7 games with Detroit and did

27-9-6-1.5-1

2006 Detroit didn't have Larry Brown and that's post-rule changes when everyone put up numbers.

[ImKobe]

Hahahha, going on about injured players when the Celtics were better in 09 than they were in 08 before Garnett went down. Kobe only even has that 09 championship Because he got injured. You then have the fact that Zo went down before the 2001 season. With the acquisitions of Eddie Jones and Brian Grant it was gearing up to be an obvious Heat vs Lakers finals until Zo lost the entire season due to his kidney ailment. A kobe fan has shit to say about the misfortune of other teams helping his favorite player.

You can't say that, because Kobe didn't play the 09 Celtics. 09 Lakers were much, much better than the 08 version with Ariza & Bynum healthy. I think they would have beat Boston in 6/7 games. I know RS means very little, but we did go 2 - 0 against them that season, and that's with them healthy.

[Cyrus334]

It's no one's fault but Lebron's own that he wasted 1 year of prime D-Wade at his best.

[Mamba4Life]

It's no one's fault but Lebron's own that he wasted 1 year of prime D-Wade at his best.

So it’s Bron’s fault that Wade had a 1 year prime?

[Manny98]

Wade was awful in 3/4 series in the 2013 playoffs

Worst second option ever, Lebron would have,3-peated if he had Pippen instead of Wade

[Bronbron23]

Wade was awful in 3/4 series in the 2013 playoffs

Worst second option ever, Lebron would have,3-peated if he had Pippen instead of Wade

Holy shit your delusional. Wade is better than pip. Wade in 10-11 averaged 26 pts on 50% shooting and had 1.5 steals and more than a block a game. Bron lost with a prime 29 year old wade. To dirk at that. Theres no way he 3 peats with pip. Get back on your meds boi:facepalm

[Mamba4Life]

Holy shit your delusional. Wade is better than pip. Wade in 10-11 averaged 26 pts on 50% shooting and had 1.5 steals and more than a block a game. Bron lost with a prime 29 year old wade. To dirk at that. Theres no way he 3 peats with pip. Get back on your meds boi:facepalm

Why did Wade lose in 2011 if he was so good?

[Doranku]

Lebron didn't play the 04 Pistons, got to account for rule changes and Sheed/Wallace being older + no Larry Brown in 06, they replaced Wallace with a washed up C-Webb when they lost in 07. Wouldn't say he did better against Boston with the 3 straight losses and a really weird Game 6.

He did play them 4 times in the regular season. I know he was a rookie, but...

15/7/3 on 5-17 shooting
12/4/6 on 5-19 shooting
23/3/9 on 8-21 shooting
6/2/7 on 2-8 shooting

[Bronbron23]

Why did Wade lose in 2011 if he was so good?

Well its not one thing. There can be many reasons why. The best player on the team and the self proclaimed goat not showing up may have been one of them though

[Indian guy]

Except the teams Kobe faced actually had great offenses. Lebron played the Bulls without Deng and the Spurs with an injured Tony Parker and a 37 y.o Duncan.

Yeah, those Yao-less Rockets (14th ranked offense) and the 11th ranked Magic in the Finals sure were juggernauts offensively :rolleyes:

And in what world are the 2013 Spurs not elite on offense? They ranked 7th in the RS and 2nd in the playoffs. And are a better team than anybody Kobe faced in '09 and '10. Also, :oldlol: @ mentioning Parker's injury. Yes, we know every player of all Kobe's opponents were uber-healthy (Yao? Jameer Nelson? :oldlol:).

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah, those Yao-less Rockets (14th ranked offense) and the 11th ranked Magic in the Finals sure were juggernauts offensively :rolleyes:


Rockets didn't have T Mac either. They were down to their third string center by the end of the series after Mutumbo also went down. Still took the Lakers to 7. :lol

[tpols]

MJ and scottie pippen were like peanut butter and jelly. They fit perfectly and optimally.

Wade and bron didnt fit at all. they had a negative rating together in 2013. lebron was better with an old ray allen than a prime dwayne wade.

[Mamba4Life]

MJ and scottie pippen were like peanut butter and jelly. They fit perfectly and optimally.

Wade and bron didnt fit at all. they had a negative rating together in 2013. lebron was better with an old ray allen than a prime dwayne wade.

That’s Wade’s fault for being a SHOOTING guard who couldn’t shoot

Why did Kyrie and AD fit so well with Bron?

[3ball]

A sidekick wasn't needed to win the weak East, let alone two sidekicks like Bron had with Wade/Bosh

Otoh, lebron's sidekick needed prime Pippen stats to win the Finals (Wade averaged 20/5/5 on 48%), whereas MJ won with Pippen getting 15 on 34%

/thread.. nice try op (not actually)

[Manny98]

Holy shit your delusional. Wade is better than pip. Wade in 10-11 averaged 26 pts on 50% shooting and had 1.5 steals and more than a block a game. Bron lost with a prime 29 year old wade. To dirk at that. Theres no way he 3 peats with pip. Get back on your meds boi:facepalm
I'm not talking about 2011, Wade was decent that year

However he was garbage in the 2013 and 2014 postseason

[RRR3]

Wade was quite a bit more than "decent" in 2011. Manny at it again :facepalm

[Smoke117]

Wade was quite a bit more than "decent" in 2011. Manny at it again :facepalm

lol You could argue he was the 2nd best player in the league after LeBron, but yeah, just a decent pretty good baller.

[RRR3]

lol You could argue he was the 2nd best player in the league after LeBron, but yeah, just a decent pretty good baller.
25.5/6.4/4.6/1.5/1.1 on 58.1 TS% with a 6.6 BPM. 24.5/7.1/4.4/1.6/1.3 on 57.0 TS% with an 8.4 BPM in the playoffs. Just decent doe.

[Manny98]

Wade was quite a bit more than "decent" in 2011. Manny at it again :facepalm
Wade couldn't even get past past the first round before LeBron joined and carried him

[RRR3]

Wade couldn't even get past past the first round before LeBron joined and carried him
https://d1l5jyrrh5eluf.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/dwyane_wade_main.jpg

[Manny98]

https://d1l5jyrrh5eluf.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/dwyane_wade_main.jpg
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2010-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-heat-vs-celtics.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2009-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-celtics.html

[Smoke117]

https://d1l5jyrrh5eluf.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/dwyane_wade_main.jpg

When you needed LeBron to get past the first round, but you already have a championship and finals MVP and said player was the one who RAN TO JOIN YOU. :oldlol:

[Manny98]

When you needed LeBron to get past the first round, but you already have a champion and finals MVP and said player was the one who RAN TO JOIN YOU. :oldlol:
Wade begged for Lebron to join him because he couldn't get past the first round without Shaq :oldlol:

[RRR3]

Wade begged for Lebron to join him because he couldn't get past the first round without Shaq :oldlol:
Damn, so after LeBron left, Wade surely never made it past the first round again, right?

[Manny98]

Damn, so after LeBron left, Wade surely never made it past the first round again, right?
He literally missed the playoffs the year after Lebron left :roll:

[Smoke117]

Damn, so after LeBron left, Wade surely never made it past the first round again, right?

He argues like he's 10 years old.

[RRR3]

He literally missed the playoffs the year after Lebron left :roll:
What happened the year after that? I bet he missed the playoffs again, right?

[Mamba4Life]

He literally missed the playoffs the year after Lebron left :roll:

Get his ass! :roll:


Wade was a loser before LeBron, he was a loser after LeBron

[Manny98]

What happened the year after that? I bet he missed the playoffs again, right?
So it took the additions of Whiteside,Dragic and Luol Deng just for Wade to make the playoffs and get spanked in the second round :facepalm

[Mamba4Life]

What happened the year after that? I bet he missed the playoffs again, right?

“What happened the year after when Wade got 3 more stars while still having Bosh on his roster”? :roll:

[TheCorporation]

LeBron won a championship with Wade averaging 15/4/3 on 45% the entire playoff run


Which championship run was Pippen like that in?

+1

Which one?

[3ball]

+1

Which one?



Playoffs

13' Wade..'.... 18.7 PER.. 3.0 bpm.. 1.0 vorp.. 0.108 ws/48
93' Pippen.... 16.9 PER.. 2.0 bpm.. 0.8 vorp.. 0.083 ws/48


Finals

13' Wade...... 19.6 on 47% (outscored opposing #1 option)

96' Pippen.... 15.7 on 34%
97' Pippen.... 19.0 on 42%
98' Pippen.... 15.7 on 41%



Comparing sidekick help while trying to 3-peat



Playoffs

14' Wade...'.. 18.5 PER.. 0.086 ws/48.. 1.6 obpm
93' Pippen... 16.9 PER.. 0.083 ws/48.. 1.1 obpm


Per 100 Possessions

14' Wade...'.. 28.6 pts.. 6.2 ast.. 56.0 ts.. 106 ortg
93' Pippen... 26.2 pts.. 7.4 ast.. 50.0 ts.. 102 ortg


So why the excuses for Lebron?..

[TheCorporation]

So you mean to tell me Wade's 2013 playoff ppg was lower than ANY of Pippen's lowest Finals playoff runs? Pippen's lowest ppg was still higher than Wade's 2013 ppg? AND Pippen was playing elite level defense? AND Wade's 2013 playoff ppg is top 5 lowest ppg for a #2 option all-time, NBA history?

I've seen enough. Carry on.

[3ball]

So you mean to tell me Wade's 2013 playoff ppg was lower than ANY of Pippen's





Not pace adjusted

Pippen scored less in the 96' and 98' Playoffs pace-adjusted

[Gohan]

Get. His. Ass. :lol

So you watch gay porn? Fukking ***

[TheGoatest]

Forgetting 11' Wade?

The 18.8 ppg on .405 shooting and 2.2 assist averaging against the Bulls in the ECF Wade wouldn't have even been in the finals if it wasn't for LeBron.

[3ball]

The 18.8 ppg on .405 shooting and 2.2 assist averaging against the Bulls in the ECF Wade wouldn't have even been in the finals if it wasn't for LeBron.

Lebron won the 2014 ECF with 22 ppg

And Bosh outplayed him in the 11' ECF... Wade outplayed him for those Playoffs as a whole especially the Finals