‘Pippen saved Jordan’s career’ ‘1-9’ Where did this narrative come from?

[bison]

I’m not talking about the argument itself but rather the timing. This idea that Jordan was an overhyped loser is very recent. I’ve only seen the ‘1-9’ arguments appear in the last 3-4 years for instance. To be fair the press wrote similar things in the late 80s. But here’s the thing: Jordan and Pippen last played together more than 20 years ago. We’ve had 20 years to marinate on Jordan’s career, to research and criticize it and no one during that time span brought up ‘1-9’. It seems certain narratives just pop up, not as basketball analysis, but as compensation for something else.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Jordan went 1-9 in the playoffs without Pippen. That's where the narrative came from retard

It's not even a narrative, it's a fact. Jordan would be ringless without Pippen. Even Jordan fans agree

[Kblaze8855]

Stupid people started with 2/5 with Lebron and idiot Lebron fans flipped it to making as many basketball arguments as possible be two numbers. 1/9. 6/24. 0/44 or whatever they did for stephe finals mvps. It’s stupid building on stupid and not worth your consideration.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Stupid people started with 2/5 with Lebron and idiot Lebron fans flipped it to making as many basketball arguments as possible be two numbers. 1/9. 6/24. 0/44 or whatever they did for stephe finals mvps. It’s stupid building on stupid and not worth your consideration.
So none of that is relevant? Steph not getting any FMVP votes isn't relevant to his career... Kobe shooting poorly in the finals isn't relevant to his career.... Jordan not winning before or after Pippen isn't relevant to his career....


But everything else is relevant. Just not the negative stuff right? 2/5 isn't relevant to LeBron as an individual player so the analogy there doesn't hold up.

[Indian guy]

It's MJ's playoff record pre-Pippen from the ages of 22-24 when he played with awful rosters.

It's an obvious troll job to rile up MJ fans. Not something remotely worthy of consideration. Sadly, most MJ fans live in a perpetual state of insecurity where anything that does't say MJ-is-GOD is something to go nuts over. I'm just constantly amazed by the amount of posts these threads see :facepalm

[Kblaze8855]

None of it means shit. None of it. Not 3/9 not 1/9 not 0/44 not 6/24 and none of the rest.

Literally 100% of those arguments are trolling bullshit from people either not willing or not able to make a basketball argument.

[LeCroix]

Alternative AC makes the tough point to battle around. It is not a narrative, it is a truth. Michael played 10 post season games before Pippen was on his Bulls team and Michael was defeated in 9 of those games, that which brings the result of 1 win, 9 losses, converted to 1-9

[86Celtics]

Alternative AC makes the tough point to battle around. It is not a narrative, it is a truth. Michael played 10 post season games before Pippen was on his Bulls team and Michael was defeated in 9 of those games, that which brings the result of 1 win, 9 losses, converted to 1-9

Yes, let's throw context out of the window to suit our agenda. Jordan was 1-9 before Pippen and James is 3-9 in the finals. It's a stupid, transparent and weak attempt to make a point. No wonder that trolls and fanboys use obsessively since they're incapable of making a meaningful contribution to the discourse.

[jstern]

It started coming up here on ish I would say about 4 years ago. I remember it being a comment that I would gloss over because it was so silly that who would take it seriously. It was just a troll comment, similar to saying that Jordan is not the Goat because the Bulls were never able to go 15 -1 like the 2001 Lakers. I mean Jordan was a rookie going up against the likes of teams like the 86 Celtics.

Then I started seeing it on YouTube, teenagers going 1-9, but this time I could tell they were 100% serious.

I cannot stress how despite how common it is now and one gets more or less use to it, I cannot stress how stupid, idiotic it felt during those beginnings.

[bison]

None of it means shit. None of it. Not 3/9 not 1/9 not 0/44 not 6/24 and none of the rest.

Literally 100% of those arguments are trolling bullshit from people either not willing or not able to make a basketball argument.

Thanks, king. You’re on point here.

Basketball discussions are getting increasingly meta. That’s why I love this classic quote “today’s sports fan uses stats like a drunk uses a lamppost: not for illumination, but support”.

You can isolate any ‘stat’ to tarnish whatever player is making your life sad: Jordan, Kobe, lebron, Bill Russell.

[bison]

Yes, let's throw context out of the window to suit our agenda. Jordan was 1-9 before Pippen and James is 3-9 in the finals. It's a stupid, transparent and weak attempt to make a point. No wonder that trolls and fanboys use obsessively since they're incapable of making a meaningful contribution to the discourse.

Agreed. My point exactly.

[Roundball_Rock]

From MJ stans who have been saying 1) Jordan is the GOAT because of his team success 2) attacking every other legend for (supposedly) doing less with more around them.

The logical response involves pointing out MJ was having zero team success when he didn't have a strong team around him. 1-9 is misleading but it is easy shorthand for a larger point, like "6-0" and "3-6" are for MJ stans.

[LAL]

From MJ stans who have been saying 1) Jordan is the GOAT because of his team success 2) attacking every other legend for (supposedly) doing less with more around them.

The logical response involves pointing out MJ was having zero team success when he didn't have a strong team around him. 1-9 is misleading but it is easy shorthand for a larger point, like "6-0" and "3-6" are for MJ stans.

No man he was more succesful, better on both ends, has the stats, media awards, the 6 rings and waay less faillures than lebron. Why focus on MJ and the 80's? Nobody is talking about lebron's first 7 years with cleveland.. Can't win every year, you know? This Scottie Pippen shit is getting too retarded, wake up.

Btw, all the KD, Kawhi, Kobe, MJ, Steph, Giannis hate comes from bronstans.

[FKAri]

0/44

fmvp amc

:yaohappy:

[Monta Ellis MVP]

I’m not talking about the argument itself but rather the timing. This idea that Jordan was an overhyped loser is very recent. I’ve only seen the ‘1-9’ arguments appear in the last 3-4 years for instance. To be fair the press wrote similar things in the late 80s. But here’s the thing: Jordan and Pippen last played together more than 20 years ago. We’ve had 20 years to marinate on Jordan’s career, to research and criticize it and no one during that time span brought up ‘1-9’. It seems certain narratives just pop up, not as basketball analysis, but as compensation for something else.

A lot of my co-workers at McDonalds have been saying some of those things for along time. No pip, no chip! We all love LeBron.

[Axe]

None of it means shit. None of it. Not 3/9 not 1/9 not 0/44 not 6/24 and none of the rest.

Literally 100% of those arguments are trolling bullshit from people either not willing or not able to make a basketball argument.
It's the typical narrative of many people here having the crab mentality thing just to feel good about their favorite players or teams.

[Turbo Slayer]

This stupid narrative is just something people bring out and troll other with. Trolls can't be reasoned with.

[Roundball_Rock]

No man he was more succesful, better on both ends, has the stats, media awards, the 6 rings and waay less faillures than lebron.

I know but that's not what we hear from MJ stans. The level of discussion is much higher here but check out any sports Facebook group or Twitter. It is "6-0" and "3-6" nonstop. That is it. People don't say what you said.

Another example, Wilt came up tonight in a FB group I am in. Can you guess what the MJ stans' immediate response was? "6 rings versus 2!" MJ stans do this over and over again by saying he is the best because of team results so people naturally are going to question the context of the team results.

[Ronin45]

Stupid people started with 2/5 with Lebron and idiot Lebron fans flipped it to making as many basketball arguments as possible be two numbers. 1/9. 6/24. 0/44 or whatever they did for stephe finals mvps. It’s stupid building on stupid and not worth your consideration.
Except 2-5 for LeBron in the Finals is an actual, fact based thing.

1-9 is a spin on something that is arbitrary and entirely false. Fake news. Narrative spin job.

Pippen was ass to average in 88 and 89. In those seasons the Bulls got to the Semis, and the Conference Finals. Giving the undefeated otherwise Bad Boy Piston champions their only two losses of the season.

So, umm, no. 1-9 is actually more reflective of LeBron Finals record sans legacy saving shots from Ray Allen and Kyrie. Not to mention league facilitated officiating benefits.

[LAL]

I know but that's not what we hear from MJ stans. The level of discussion is much higher here but check out any sports Facebook group or Twitter. It is "6-0" and "3-6" nonstop. That is it. People don't say what you said.

Another example, Wilt came up tonight in a FB group I am in. Can you guess what the MJ stans' immediate response was? "6 rings versus 2!" MJ stans do this over and over again by saying he is the best because of team results so people naturally are going to question the context of the team results.

Poor Lebron. What's the context for MJ's winning 6? Scottie pippen? What's the context for lebron's losing with superteams? Context of creating the Heatles when he had zero? Let me guess, wade injured or some shit? Scottie never was? Kobe or MJ would've been killed by the media and you guys if they made that same coward decision and lost so many times. You guys need to humble yourselfs more that's all.

[Ronin45]

Poor Lebron. What's the context for MJ's winning 6? Scottie pippen? What's the context for lebron's losing with superteams? Context of creating the Heatles when he had zero? Let me guess, wade injured or some shit? Scottie never was? Kobe or MJ would've been killed by the media and you guys if they made that same coward decision and lost so many times. You guys need to humble yourselfs more that's all.
Wow, absolute total truth.

[LAL]

Wow, absolute total truth.

Your post above was even better :cheers:

[jstern]

A lot of my co-workers at McDonalds have been saying some of those things for along time. No pip, no chip! We all love LeBron.

That does make sense, since a lot of the basketball fans that work at McDonald's like yourself tend to be young, with little exposure to basketball before 2016 or so. I respect those McDonald's guy even though they have limited basketball IQs, for working, and I hope you guys are wearing the face mask.

[Turbo Slayer]

Except 2-5 for LeBron in the Finals is an actual, fact based thing.

1-9 is a spin on something that is arbitrary and entirely false. Fake news. Narrative spin job.

Pippen was ass to average in 88 and 89. In those seasons the Bulls got to the Semis, and the Conference Finals. Giving the undefeated otherwise Bad Boy Piston champions their only two losses of the season.

So, umm, no. 1-9 is actually more reflective of LeBron Finals record sans legacy saving shots from Ray Allen and Kyrie. Not to mention league facilitated officiating benefits.


more reflective of LeBron Finals record sans legacy saving shots from Ray Allen Conveniently ignoring the fact that the Miami Heat was dead in the water at the end of the 3rd quarter down around 10 points.

LeBron James scored 16 points on 7/11 (64%) and hit a clutch three to make it possible to tie the game and make it a 1 possession game. Also LeBron made 2 assists so he was directly responsible for 20+ points in the 4th qtr. I agree that Ray Allen shot saved his legacy because if Allen missed that shot it would have affected his all-time ranking severely. But choosing to ignore the 16 points that LeBron put up shows your ignorance.

What if LeBron never showed up in the 4th quarter? Ray Allen 3 wouldn't have even mattered. Also Ray Allen's shot didn't win the game. It only tied it.

LeBron played clutch defense on Tony Parker who could have made a game winner if he wasn't playing defense. LeBron also made the go ahead layup in OT too. The Heat also had to play Game 7 too. LeBron put 37 points and the dagger to put away the game at last, clinching the 2nd title in the Heatles era.


and Kyrie. LeBron put up 10+ in the 4th qtr. LeBron also blocked Iggy, making it one of the greatest defensive plays of all-time. If we took away Kyrie's shot, the Cavs would have won the game with LeBron's FT at the end of the game.

[LAL]

Conveniently ignoring the fact that the Miami Heat was dead in the water at the end of the 3rd quarter down around 10 points.

LeBron James scored 16 points on 7/11 (64%) and hit a clutch three to make it possible to tie the game and make it a 1 possession game. I agree that Ray Allen shot saved his legacy because if Allen missed that shot it would have affected his all-time ranking severely. But choosing to ignore the 16 points that LeBron put up shows your ignorance.

What if LeBron never showed up in the 4th quarter? Ray Allen 3 wouldn't have even mattered. Also Ray Allen's shot didn't win the game. It only tied it.

LeBron played clutch defense on Tony Parker who could have made a game winner if he wasn't playing defense. LeBron also made the go ahead layup in OT too. The Heat also had to play Game 7 too. LeBron put 37 points and the dagger to put away the game at last, clinching the 2nd title in the Heatles era.

LeBron put up 10+ in the 4th qtr. LeBron also blocked Iggy, making it one of the greatest defensive plays of all-time. If we took away Kyrie's shot, the Cavs would have won the game with LeBron's FT at the end of the game.
Hey Turbo question, think we gonna have to wait another 18 years for bron to reach 6? Or nah?

[Turbo Slayer]

Hey Turbo question, think we gonna have to wait another 18 years for bron to reach 6? Or nah? It's highly unlikely that LeBron gets 6 rings. He will likely decline soon in the age range of 35-40.

[LAL]

It's highly unlikely that LeBron gets 6 rings. He will likely decline soon.

I see.. maybe he just needed a teammate like scottie pippen, who knows.

[Ronin45]

I see.. maybe he just needed a teammate like scottie pippen, who knows.
As if Wade / Bosh and Kyrie / Love and eventually AD weren’t enough :oldlol:

[Turbo Slayer]

As if Wade / Bosh and Kyrie / Love and eventually AD weren’t enough :oldlol: You say things out of your head with no context whatsoever.

I ask you this.

What happened in the 2015 Finals? What was the Cavs supporting cast around LeBron at that point? Hm?

[Soundwave]

lol, this board in a nutshell ... 10 losers with 30 alts desperately clinging to the delusion that LeBron still could somehow be GOAT at age 35 and no one is buying it.

The general public would laugh at your dumb asses.

In 4-5 years, kids are not going to even give a rats ass about LeBron and will be all over some other new player's bandwagon. Enjoy whatever he has left.

[Turbo Slayer]

lol, this board in a nutshell ... 10 losers with 30 alts desperately clinging to the delusion that LeBron still could somehow be GOAT at age 35 and no one is buying it.

The general public would laugh at your dumb asses.

In 4-5 years, kids are not going to even give a rats ass about LeBron and will be all over some other new player's bandwagon. Enjoy whatever he has left. I am a fan of LeBron and I don't even remotely think that LeBron is the GOAT. Michael Jordan is the GOAT to me.

[Round Mound]

Get real Pippen was a great player but MJ was the leader and alpha male since day 1 on that Bulls squad. Jordan would not have won without Pippen? NOPE but also Pippen would have won without Jordan? NOPE. There are two extremes: Jordan Jockers who view Pippen as he was just a good role player that could be replaced by another and there are Pippen Jockers who believe Pippen was the best player in the 90s after MJ retired. None of them are right. Pippen was a Top 10 Player in the 90s? YES! and Jordan was THEE Top Player in the 90s? YES! Pippen's seasons in his prime (93-94 part of 94-95) without Jordan prooved he was one of the best players in the game (especially Defensively) and his stats would have looked better as a 1st option? All True! Both where great and the best at their positions in the 90's. One sacrificed stats and money to win the other was give his best 2nd option in order to win aswell. Jordan and Pippen are the Best Dynamic Duo of All Time!

[LeCroix]

Except 2-5 for LeBron in the Finals is an actual, fact based thing.

1-9 is a spin on something that is arbitrary and entirely false. Fake news. Narrative spin job.

Pippen was ass to average in 88 and 89. In those seasons the Bulls got to the Semis, and the Conference Finals. Giving the undefeated otherwise Bad Boy Piston champions their only two losses of the season.

So, umm, no. 1-9 is actually more reflective of LeBron Finals record sans legacy saving shots from Ray Allen and Kyrie. Not to mention league facilitated officiating benefits.

Well actually no, not much truth to you. Think to this, the 1st year Pippen jumps Bulls wins to 50 + a 1st round win. But without Scottie the previous 3 years years (85, 86, 87) the MJ led Bulls won 38, 30, and 40 games at an average of 36 wins. Pippen in 88 takes Bulls to 50 wins and their 1st ever 1st round win. 36, to 50.

Again think to this, Pip took a 36 win team to 50 wins as a rookie.

[Smoke117]

Probably from the fact that he never did anything before Pippen arrived...so the truth???????

[LeCroix]

Probably from the fact that he never did anything before Pippen arrived...so the truth???????

Rookie Pippen jumped the 36 win Bulls team to 50 wins!

[Roundball_Rock]

to the delusion that LeBron still could somehow be GOAT at age 35 and no one is buying it.

It is unlikely. If he has not gotten past Jordan with the public now it is hard to see him doing so with whatever quality seasons he has left. That said, why are MJ stans so insecure then?

I suspect MJ stans fear 1) LeBron crushing MJ in longevity and career stats and 2) that MJ may lose steam when the MJ lovers in the media get old and are replaced by a new generation.

The one wild card is we have never seen MJ subject to any real historical evaluation (i.e., scrutiny) so we don't know how MJ would hold up 20-25 years from now when people look at him as dispassionately as we do today towards Wilt, Russell, or Kareem.


Poor Lebron. What's the context for MJ's winning 6? Scottie pippen? What's the context for lebron's losing with superteams? Context of creating the Heatles when he had zero?

Case in point. So there is no context according to people like you. Team results occurred in team vacuums. This will result in pushback and "1-9" is a shorthand response LeBron fans have been using.


Pippen was ass to average in 88 and 89. In those seasons the Bulls got to the Semis, and the Conference Finals.

Yup, it was all Jordan by himself, like always! Pippen was 16/7/4 as a starter in 89' and it was only when he became a permanent starter that the Bulls became permanent winners. Not bad for "ass."

If it was all Jordan, where were the results before major roster and coaching upgrades (including eventually the GOAT coach)? This is what brings it back to "1-9."


Jordan would not have won without Pippen? NOPE but also Pippen would have won without Jordan? NOPE.

I think the reason it comes up are 1) all the people saying MJ won by himself 2) basically every other top 10 player actually did win without his best teammate. The only exceptions are Bird (who had only his rookie year without McHale, and took a 29 win team to 61 wins and the ECF that year), Magic (who had only 2 years without Kareem and made the finals one of those years), and Jordan (who won 1 playoff game in 5 years without Pippen).


Rookie Pippen jumped the 36 win Bulls team to 50 wins!

It was 40 to 50 but Pippen didn't come along. Grant was drafted the same year and the Bulls got their third coach in four years of MJ that year in Doug Collins.

What happened before 1988? 38 wins, 30 (MJ hurt most of the season), 40 wins. So the GOAT is there for three years and there is zero improvement until the cavalry arrives.

[97 bulls]

It is unlikely. If he has not gotten past Jordan with the public now it is hard to see him doing so with whatever quality seasons he has left. That said, why are MJ stans so insecure then?

I suspect MJ stans fear 1) LeBron crushing MJ in longevity and career stats and 2) that MJ may lose steam when the MJ lovers in the media get old and are replaced by a new generation.

The one wild card is we have never seen MJ subject to any real historical evaluation (i.e., scrutiny) so we don't know how MJ would hold up 20-25 years from now when people look at him as dispassionately as we do today towards Wilt, Russell, or Kareem.



Case in point. So there is no context according to people like you. Team results occurred in team vacuums. This will result in pushback and "1-9" is a shorthand response LeBron fans have been using.



Yup, it was all Jordan by himself, like always! Pippen was 16/7/4 as a starter in 89' and it was only when he became a permanent starter that the Bulls became permanent winners. Not bad for "ass."

If it was all Jordan, where were the results before major roster and coaching upgrades (including eventually the GOAT coach)? This is what brings it back to "1-9."



I think the reason it comes up are 1) all the people saying MJ won by himself 2) basically every other top 10 player actually did win without his best teammate. The only exceptions are Bird (who had only his rookie year without McHale, and took a 29 win team to 61 wins and the ECF that year), Magic (who had only 2 years without Kareem and made the finals one of those years), and Jordan (who won 1 playoff game in 5 years without Pippen).



It was 40 to 50 but Pippen didn't come along. Grant was drafted the same year and the Bulls got their third coach in four years of MJ that year in Doug Collins.

What happened before 1988? 38 wins, 30 (MJ hurt most of the season), 40 wins. So the GOAT is there for three years and there is zero improvement until the cavalry arrives.

Great post. I often wonder why Jordan get so much credit for his teams success where as other all-time greats share the glory with their teammates. Did Magic win his 5 Championships by himself? Did Bird? Did Duncan? Did James? Russell? Why only MJ?

[trada7029]

Great post. I often wonder why Jordan get so much credit for his teams success where as other all-time greats share the glory with their teammates. Did Magic win his 5 Championships by himself? Did Bird? Did Duncan? Did James? Russell? Why only MJ?
What do you think of this article?

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-michael-jordan-was-the-best/

[SATAN]

Great post. I often wonder why Jordan get so much credit for his teams success where as other all-time greats share the glory with their teammates. Did Magic win his 5 Championships by himself? Did Bird? Did Duncan? Did James? Russell? Why only MJ?

Because half of his fans don't actually know shit about the game. They are emotionally invested in the MJ brand. They got baited.

[97 bulls]

What do you think of this article?

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-michael-jordan-was-the-best/

It's a great article. MJ is the greatest ever.

Give me your opinion on this article

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blogabull.com/platform/amp/2015/9/24/9358331/scottie-pippen-stats-analytics-chicago-bulls

[Roundball_Rock]

I often wonder why Jordan get so much credit for his teams success where as other all-time greats share the glory with their teammates. Did Magic win his 5 Championships by himself? Did Bird? Did Duncan? Did James? Russell? Why only MJ?

Great question. I think it is a combination of the media obsessed with promoting MJ and MJ stans' unique zealotry.


Because half of his fans don't actually know shit about the game. They are emotionally invested in the MJ brand

True.

[Overdrive]

Great post. I often wonder why Jordan get so much credit for his teams success where as other all-time greats share the glory with their teammates. Did Magic win his 5 Championships by himself? Did Bird? Did Duncan? Did James? Russell? Why only MJ?

The Jordan won by gimself argument is relatively new. Back in the day most Jorda homers also thought Pippen was a very great player. It's just now that people started to act like Kobe and Lebron were one man armies that older stacked teams are negated and taken as one mn armies themselves.

I don't know how you guys can side with the Lebron trolls. They dgaf about Pippen. It's only to diminish Jordan in an attempt to push Lebron to GOAT, which he simply isn't.

[Roundball_Rock]

I don't know how you guys can side with the Lebron trolls. They dgaf about Pippen. It's only to diminish Jordan in an attempt to push Lebron to GOAT, which he simply isn't.

We aren't siding with anyone. We are saying what we have said our entire time on ISH. We aren't the ones changing. It is other fan bases.

Pippen has no relevance to MJ being or not being GOAT. I am not sure why MJ stans are so insecure.

[97 bulls]

The Jordan won by gimself argument is relatively new. Back in the day most Jorda homers also thought Pippen was a very great player. It's just now that people started to act like Kobe and Lebron were one man armies that older stacked teams are negated and taken as one mn armies themselves.

I don't know how you guys can side with the Lebron trolls. They dgaf about Pippen. It's only to diminish Jordan in an attempt to push Lebron to GOAT, which he simply isn't.

I've been posting here since 2006 and I can tell you this has always been the case. Hell even before I made an account. Before James came into his own. Theres just a certain faction that has no respect for the Bulls outside of Michael Jordan.

[Overdrive]

We aren't siding with anyone. We are saying what we have said our entire time on ISH. We aren't the ones changing. It is other fan bases.

Pippen has no relevance to MJ being or not being GOAT. I am not sure why MJ stans are so insecure.

Because they feel the immense need to be fan of the best. If there's any chance their guy isn't the best they get superdefensive. Jordan gives them the best opportunity to feel good about themselves. Pippen as a strawman is an opportunity to attack Jordan so they have to hate on him as mich as possible.


I've been posting here since 2006 and I can tell you this has always been the case. Hell even before I made an account. Before James came into his own. Theres just a certain faction that has no respect for the Bulls outside of Michael Jordan.

They're not basketball fans, just like most of the Lebronclowns aren't. Any real basketball fan, Jordan stan, Kobe, Lebron whatever would atleast deep down appreciate the other ATGs, because those are the players we want to see. Jordan happened to have an ATG player by his site and not appreciating him is retarded.

[Soundwave]

The Jordan won by gimself argument is relatively new. Back in the day most Jorda homers also thought Pippen was a very great player. It's just now that people started to act like Kobe and Lebron were one man armies that older stacked teams are negated and taken as one mn armies themselves.

I don't know how you guys can side with the Lebron trolls. They dgaf about Pippen. It's only to diminish Jordan in an attempt to push Lebron to GOAT, which he simply isn't.

This isn't really a basketball board. It's the "I hope Kobe or LeBron can be as good as Jordan" board basically for the last 12+ years. No one really gives a crap about anything other than that or complaining about Durant choosing to be a Warrior, and really the only reason that was such a big deal here is because it was co-opting the whole "well shit, he's short cutting to being in the GOAT convo! Omg!!!" not because people actually cared that much about Durant before.

Pippen was a great player, but it's equally stupid to act like somehow he was some magic wizard that was the only player on earth Jordan could possibly win with.

That's also stupid. The really great players like Jordan, Shaq, (yes, sure) Kobe, LeBron will win titles if you give them a solid enough supporting cast. Period. There's no f**king magic to it, there's a reason why basketball is by far the most predictable pro sport.

The fact is the Bulls were monumentally lucky to fluke out in getting Jordan, they won the golden ticket in basketball terms and all they really had to do was be half way competent and at least give Jordan two other fairly good players to play with, which is not asking a lot.

[Ronin45]

Rookie Pippen jumped the 36 win Bulls team to 50 wins!
Yea averaging 8 ppg 4 rpg in 21 mpg

:oldlol:

Or the next year averaging 14 ppg 6 rpg in 33 mpg

:roll:

[Roundball_Rock]

I've been posting here since 2006 and I can tell you this has always been the case. Hell even before I made an account. Before James came into his own. Theres just a certain faction that has no respect for the Bulls outside of Michael Jordan.

I second that and I started here in 2009. MJ stans are hellbent on this.


Because they feel the immense need to be fan of the best. If there's any chance their guy isn't the best they get superdefensive.

Good points.


Pippen as a strawman is an opportunity to attack Jordan so they have to hate on him as mich as possible.

Not really. MJ stans themselves are the reason Pippen keeps coming up. If MJ stans keep boosting MJ and denigrating every other legend based on team success, that invites an examination of MJ's team success context.


Pippen was a great player, but it's equally stupid to act like somehow he was some magic wizard that was the only player on earth Jordan could possibly win with.

No but MJ doesn't have a dynasty with Horace Grant as his #2 option. It is always "6" and "6-0" that MJ stans say, so they are dependent on the narrative that the dynasty was a one man achievement and hence inevitable.


That's also stupid. The really great players like Jordan, Shaq, (yes, sure) Kobe, LeBron will win titles if you give them a solid enough supporting cast

In theory. In practice, what did Kobe do without Shaq or Gasol? He had Odom, Butler, etc. so not total scrubs.

[Duncan21formvp]

A lot of my co-workers at McDonalds have been saying some of those things for along time. No pip, no chip! We all love LeBron.

They would have been 1-9 even if you added prime Pippen to those teams. Lebron for instance was 1-8 against the Warriors in 2017 and 2018 and that in the finals.

[Duncan21formvp]

Bulls also won game 4 at Philly in 1990 with no Pippen as a FYI.

[Roundball_Rock]

They would have been 1-9 even if you added prime Pippen to those teams.

This is ridiculous.

[Duncan21formvp]

This is ridiculous.

If you add prime Pippen to those teams there is no guarantee they even win a game against the 1986 or 1987 Celtics and that is a fact.
Lakers who were even more stacked was 1-4 vs Houston in 1986 who was the underdog.

[Roundball_Rock]

If you add prime Pippen to those teams there is no guarantee they even win a game against the 1986 or 1987 Celtics and that is a fact.

That is irrelevant to "1-9"--they wouldn't be facing those teams in the first round with prime Pippen.

[Duncan21formvp]

That is irrelevant to "1-9"--they wouldn't be facing those teams in the first round with prime Pippen.
They still would have been 1-9 against them and that is the point.

[LeCroix]

They would have been 1-9 even if you added prime Pippen to those teams. Lebron for instance was 1-8 against the Warriors in 2017 and 2018 and that in the finals.

What is his second option for 2018? Good night lmao

[Roundball_Rock]

They still would have been 1-9 against them and that is the point.

"1-9" refers to MJ's career playoff record without Pippen (remember, he missed the playoffs both years in DC as well). The 80s Pistons were making conference finals and giving Boston a run during this period yet MJ and prime Pippen would be going 1-9 in the playoffs?

[Duncan21formvp]

"1-9" refers to MJ's career playoff record without Pippen (remember, he missed the playoffs both years in DC as well). The 80s Pistons were making conference finals and giving Boston a run during this period yet MJ and prime Pippen would be going 1-9 in the playoffs?

And Lebron was winning bronze medals as well despite having all time greats, and losing to career losers in Dwight Howard with HCA.

[LAL]

In theory. In practice, what did Kobe do without Shaq or Gasol? He had Odom, Butler, etc. so not total scrubs.
Give it a rest idiot

[LeCroix]

And Lebron was winning bronze medals as well despite having all time greats, and losing to career losers in Dwight Howard with HCA.

Olympics again hm

This is the 84 gold medal opponent for michael

https://pasteboard.co/J5Hqy0K.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/GtBprXXX/Spain-Team84.jpg

Now what

[LAmbruh]

Olympics again hm

This is the 84 gold medal opponent for michael

https://pasteboard.co/J5Hqy0K.jpg:roll:

https://i.postimg.cc/GtBprXXX/Spain-Team84.jpg

Now whatcollege players :roll:


90% under 200lbs :roll:

[GimmeThat]

in fairness, it came from age comparison between Lebron and Michael

[Roundball_Rock]

And Lebron was winning bronze medals as well despite having all time greats

This exposes this is a MJ stan alt account, not a Duncan account. Duncan was the best player on the team but the 19 year old on the bench is to blame!

[deathawaitu]

Same reasons why people call Lebron "1-12" without Jones in the finals

[HoopsNY]

Great post. I often wonder why Jordan get so much credit for his teams success where as other all-time greats share the glory with their teammates. Did Magic win his 5 Championships by himself? Did Bird? Did Duncan? Did James? Russell? Why only MJ?

Might have something to do with Mj winning 6 finals MVPs where as the other teams had more of a spread in that department.

[Roundball_Rock]

Might have something to do with Mj winning 6 finals MVPs where as the other teams had more of a spread in that department.

Not really. Shaq won all 3 FMVPs when he was the best player. LeBron won all 3 in Miami and Cleveland. Prime Duncan won it 3 of 4 times. Kobe won it both times he was the best player, same with Durant. The 80s Lakers are the only team that traded FMVPs.

The best player on the winning team almost always gets FMVP. Several of the exceptions come from the 80s: Maxwell, Worthy, Dumars. Since 1990, the only exceptions are Parker and Iggy.

[hateraid]

Stupid people started with 2/5 with Lebron and idiot Lebron fans flipped it to making as many basketball arguments as possible be two numbers. 1/9. 6/24. 0/44 or whatever they did for stephe finals mvps. It’s stupid building on stupid and not worth your consideration.

Funny thing is this is literally what Jordanites lean on. 3-9. I don't blame the whole 1-9 thing as a rebuttle because it just points out those numbers are arbitrary

[LAL]

Funny thing is this is literally what Jordanites lean on. 3-9. I don't blame the whole 1-9 thing as a rebuttle because it just points out those numbers are arbitrary

No no you don't understand i think. MJ was better at everything, skills, mentality, leadership, stats, media awards, 6 rings.. you name it.. What does lebron have? Anyone clowning MJ's career is ridiculous.. let alone as a lebron fan lol.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

No no you don't understand i think. MJ was better at everything, skills, mentality, leadership, stats, media awards, 6 rings.. you name it.. What does lebron have? Anyone clowning MJ's career is ridiculous.. let alone as a lebron fan lol.

aj1987 claimed I was you

Did your LAL account get banned already, retard? :oldlol:


Oh great,someone thinks I'm somebody else even though I'm not.Let me set the record straight,I'm not LAL whoever that is.I have two accounts on here the first one I created was AnimeSportsGuy which was last year.Believe it or not I never posted on that account,I decided to create a new one and here I am.

I've been on this forum for a few years now even before I created an account,I already know how you operate on here (LeBronsexual) and I want no part of it.



The exact same posting style (a ton of autism mixed with a bit of ******ry) and the same name calling. How much of a chicken shit do you have to be, to lie on an anonymous message board? :roll: :roll:

[LAL]

aj1987 claimed I was you

Goddamn, dude is still shook? Had no idea :oldlol: Thx dude :roll:

[Roundball_Rock]

No no you don't understand i think. MJ was better at everything, skills, mentality, leadership, stats, media awards, 6 rings.. you name it.. What does lebron have? Anyone clowning MJ's career is ridiculous.. let alone as a lebron fan lol.

That isn't what we hear. He is correct. We have an army of MJ stans who 24/7 go around saying "6-0" and that MJ is the GOAT because he had better team results than anyone else (despite having less help than every other legend). That all is dumb but that is what they do. They aren't going around saying Jordan actually was the better player.

[trada7029]

That isn't what we hear. He is correct. We have an army of MJ stans who 24/7 go around saying "6-0" and that MJ is the GOAT because he had better team results than anyone else (despite having less help than every other legend). That all is dumb but that is what they do. They aren't going around saying Jordan actually was the better player.

My posts cite skill deficits that lebron has to Jordan

It's easy to do and many people cite these obvious skill deficits

So they don't just cite team ceiling (Finals record)

That's just 1 aspect.

[Roundball_Rock]

My posts cite skill deficits that lebron has to Jordan

It's easy to do and many people cite these obvious skill deficits

So they don't just cite team ceiling (Finals record)

That's just 1 aspect.

Post on social media about the two and see how many of the responses are about team results...