Gary Payton's DPOY has to be the biggest joke of all and show how all awards are...

[Smoke117]

narrative based. He wasn't even a top 10 defensive player and could be argued to not even be the most impactful defensive player on his own team. (Kemp) Even if they wanted to pick a perimeter player Scottie Pippen was well above Payton as far as defense, but Soncis won a lot of games and Payton had a big mouth and pretty much had a campaign for it and the media loved him and gave it to him. The biggest disservice this was to was to David Robinson who was pretty easily the best defensive player in the league. Dennis Rodman is always talked about as this big shit defensive player, yeah? Well the Spurs IMPROVED without him from 5th in the league (105.4) to 103.5 for 3rd in the league. Need further evidence Robinson should have been DPOY? The next season when he only played 8 hurt games THEY DROPPED TO THE WORST DEFENSIVE TEAM IN THE LEAGUE (29/29). lol

[jstern]

I've never heard this narrative before, nor did I hear anyone complaining about it back in 96. All I really know is that at 6'4" he was giving Jordan a lot of problems in the Finals. It all adds up, so I will have to investigate and look a little deeper into it. I haven't watched those Finals since they happened.

[HoopsNY]

Payton is one of the best perimeter defenders of all time. Rodman is one of the greatest defensive players, ever. Payton deserved that DPOY award IMO. He was a menace defensively and a serious lockdown defender.

Not sure what makes you think Pippen was better defensively that particular season. I mean, Payton held Michael Jordan to his worst playoff performance of his career. He also averaged more assists, Defensive Win Shares, and Defensive BPM than Pippen (slightly).

I know advanced metrics aren't everything and the difference isn't much, but this is really the first time I'm hearing this one.

[Mamba4Life]

They hyped up Gary Payton as a defender as an excuse for MJ's 40% shooting Finals against him in 1996

Truth is, he was average at best

[HoopsNY]

Payton is one of the best perimeter defenders of all time. Rodman is one of the greatest defensive players, ever. Payton deserved that DPOY award IMO. He was a menace defensively and a serious lockdown defender.

Not sure what makes you think Pippen was better defensively that particular season. I mean, Payton held Michael Jordan to his worst playoff performance of his career. He also averaged more assists, Defensive Win Shares, and Defensive BPM than Pippen (slightly).

I know advanced metrics aren't everything and the difference isn't much, but this is really the first time I'm hearing this one.

I meant to say he averaged more steals*

[HoopsNY]

They hyped up Gary Payton as a defender as an excuse for MJ's 40% shooting Finals against him in 1996

Truth is, he was average at best

Average at best? On what planet? Go and watch the games where he guarded Kobe Bryant or Penny. GP was the truth. He didn't win All-Defensive 1st team nine times for no reason.

[Smoke117]

Payton is one of the best perimeter defenders of all time. Rodman is one of the greatest defensive players, ever. Payton deserved that DPOY award IMO. He was a menace defensively and a serious lockdown defender.

Not sure what makes you think Pippen was better defensively that particular season. I mean, Payton held Michael Jordan to his worst playoff performance of his career. He also averaged more assists, Defensive Win Shares, and Defensive BPM than Pippen (slightly).

I know advanced metrics aren't everything and the difference isn't much, but this is really the first time I'm hearing this one.

If you are using advanced metrics for Gary Payton that's laughable especially when it comes to David Robinson who completely dominated the season in that regard. Even if you want to use that he had a 1.8 to Pippen's 1.7 and I already said neither deserved DPOY in the first place anyway. This is all regardless that Pippen in 94 and 95 especially completely blows away Payton's 1.8 career best with a 3.2 and 3.0, but he wasn't given a DPOY. None of this matters as, as I said before David Robinson was easily the DPOY, PERIOD. Giving it Gary payton who didn't even have half the impact someone like RObinson have is what makes the award such a joke. It's all about a narrative and not about who is actually the best defender. Payton wasn't a top 10 impact defensive player in the league, period.

[LAL]

SCotTie PiPpeN

[HakeemAlHilm]

SCotTie PiPpeN
?
Are you trying to mock that Pippen was DPOY caliber? He was the best defender on the best defensive team lol. And wing defense is far more important than guard defense.

David Robinson should of won it tho.

[Smoke117]

?
Are you trying to mock that Pippen was DPOY caliber? He was the best defender on the best defensive team lol. And wing defense is far more important than guard defense.

David Robinson should of won it tho.

Scottie Pippen in 95 was one of those rare instances when a perimeter player actually deserved the dpoy and he got screwed out of it. They gave it to Mutumbo for averaging a lot blocks despite the fact that the Nuggets were 14th in defense while Pippen carried the Bulls to 2nd in defense...pathetic.

[iamgine]

narrative based. He wasn't even a top 10 defensive player and could be argued to not even be the most impactful defensive player on his own team. (Kemp) Even if they wanted to pick a perimeter player Scottie Pippen was well above Payton as far as defense, but Soncis won a lot of games and Payton had a big mouth and pretty much had a campaign for it and the media loved him and gave it to him. The biggest disservice this was to was to David Robinson who was pretty easily the best defensive player in the league. Dennis Rodman is always talked about as this big shit defensive player, yeah? Well the Spurs IMPROVED without him from 5th in the league (105.4) to 103.5 for 3rd in the league. Need further evidence Robinson should have been DPOY? The next season when he only played 8 hurt games THEY DROPPED TO THE WORST DEFENSIVE TEAM IN THE LEAGUE (29/29). lol
Kemp wasn't even selected to the All-Defensive Team so I assume they just didn't think that highly of his defense.

[LAL]

?
Are you trying to mock that Pippen was DPOY caliber? He was the best defender on the best defensive team lol. And wing defense is far more important than guard defense.

David Robinson should of won it tho.
I'm mocking the recent Scottie pippen fanbois. All of a sudden Gary Payton didn't deserve it 96.. Scottie couldn't win in 94 & 95 without MJ & Rodman? Sonics defense was pretty crazy in 94, 95, 96.. led by GP.

[Smoke117]

I'm mocking the recent Scottie pippen fanbois. All of a sudden Gary Payton didn't deserve it 96.. Scottie couldn't win in 94 & 95 without MJ & Rodman? Sonics defense was pretty crazy in 94, 95, 96.. led by GP.

So Gary Payton deserved it over David Robinson? If you believe that you should just stop watching basketball, “boi”. Very few people that know anything about basketball would argue Payton was better defensively than Oippen in 96, regardless.

[DoctorP]

what. the . ****.

[Micku]

It's whatever.

I mean, Tyson Chandler won DPOY in 2013 and yet didn't get on the first team all defense.

You can argue about MVPs this way too. Sometimes MVP isn't really the most valuable player. It could just mean which player has the best story on a good team or just the best player on the best team. But not really the most valuable player. Did Rose deserve his MVP? Did Nash? etc, etc. You can debate about it all day.

We can see what happens on the court and who does what more impressive. Sometimes players do things so well equally you just flip a coin. But it should be known for any hardcore sports fan, especially on a team sport, that these awards could sometimes get things wrong for whatever reason based upon your opinion. Not everyone had Payton as their DPOY.

Regardless, these awards is still accolade to be proud of. Ppl took notice and you are usually in the ballpark of doing something right. Some of these awards MVP, DPOY, 1st/2nd all team, all-star sometimes snips the player who is actually the best, but it happens.

[Smoke117]

It's whatever.

I mean, Tyson Chandler won DPOY in 2013 and yet didn't get on the first team all defense.

You can argue about MVPs this way too. Sometimes MVP isn't really the most valuable player. It could just mean which player has the best story on a good team or just the best player on the best team. But not really the most valuable player. Did Rose deserve his MVP? Did Nash? etc, etc. You can debate about it all day.

We can see what happens on the court and who does what more impressive. Sometimes players do things so well equally you just flip a coin. But it should be known for any hardcore sports fan, especially on a team sport, that these awards could sometimes get things wrong for whatever reason based upon your opinion. Not everyone had Payton as their DPOY.

Regardless, these awards is still accolade to be proud of. Ppl took notice and you are usually in the ballpark of doing something right. Some of these awards MVP, DPOY, 1st/2nd all team, all-star sometimes snips the player who is actually the best, but it happens.

Tyson Chandler is legit one of the laughable weakest dpoy for sure especially for a big man.

[LostCause]

Payton was an all-time great defender. Whoever said he wasn’t is a complete moron

That said, as said, it’s debatable if he was the best defender on his team. Nate McMillan didn’t get all the recognition GP did, but he was a more impactful defender (He’s also 2nd all time in DBPM, yet still gets severely underrated defensively)

[Smoke117]

Payton was an all-time great defender. Whoever said he wasn’t is a complete moron

That said, as said, it’s debatable if he was the best defender on his team. Nate McMillan didn’t get all the recognition GP did, but he was a more impactful defender (He’s also 2nd all time in DBPM, yet still gets severely underrated defensively)

That’s a good point, too. McMillan was a beast defensively. In the 96 season he had a 98 drafting to Garys 102. When you are given dpoy and aren’t even the best defensive player at your position on your own team...:oldlol:

[LAL]

That’s a good point, too. McMillan was a beast defensively. In the 96 season he had a 98 drafting to Garys 102. When you are given dpoy and aren’t even the best defensive player at your position on your own team...:oldlol:I'm sure your happy mcmillan has better DBPM than Payton :applause: How old were you in 96? Can we focus more on Lebron losing with mvp level players? How long have you been a pippen fan?

[Smoke117]

I'm sure your happy mcmillan has better DBPM than Payton :applause: How old were you in 96? Can we focus more on Lebron losing with mvp level players? How long have you been a pippen fan?

You’re*

[LAL]

You’re*

My third language it happens

[Smoke117]

I'm sure your happy mcmillan has better DBPM than Payton :applause: How old were you in 96? Can we focus more on Lebron losing with mvp level players? How long have you been a pippen fan?

I was 12 in 96. I don’t care about LeBron and discussions about him bore me as much as watching him play does. Since 91.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

DBPM doesn’t mean anything. I work at McDonalds and even I know this. :oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

That’s a good point, too. McMillan was a beast defensively. In the 96 season he had a 98 drafting to Garys 102. When you are given dpoy and aren’t even the best defensive player at your position on your own team...:oldlol:


Drating does not make anyone better on defense than anyone else. I’m sure you could find quite a few examples you would disagree with heavily.

Nate was a great defender but he wasn’t better than Payton that late in his career.

[Smoke117]

Drating does not make anyone better on defense than anyone else. I’m sure you could find quite a few examples you would disagree with heavily.

Nate was a great defender but he wasn’t better than Payton that late in his career.

I was being facetious. Regardless, as per the topic...do you think Payton should have been dpoy?

[LAL]

I was being facetious. Regardless, as per the topic...do you think Payton should have been dpoy?

We've been reading nothing but "poor pippen" topics and posts last couple of months or weeks, this is not a coincedence,. now Gary Payton's dpoy award has to pay for it too. For what? He deserved it.

[Kblaze8855]

It doesn’t bother me that much. Though I do remember getting into a similar GP vs the bigs argument but it was about Zo back when that insane Payton fan Glove or whatever was here.

Generally bigs should win it due to having more total impact but GP is on the short list of guards I’ve seen totally take key players out of games and ruin a game plan. He had Tim Hardaway and Stockton just under lock and key a few times in big games and I have to respect it.

Its hard to compete with big like Drob or Hakeem who essentially guard the whole other team while still being able to switch and stop guys outside though.

You’re probably fundamentally right.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Payton didn't deserve it but lmao @ Pip

He wasn't even the best defender on the Bulls..dude missed half the season in 98 and they played better defense without him and still finished top 3

Kemp being better than Glove is jokes too. Gary arguably wasn't the best defender on his team but that's because of Nate McMillan not Kemp

[Roundball_Rock]

If Pippen got DPOY like he deserved, the Bulls would have won MVP, COY, 6th man and DPOY. That probably hurt him.

[SouBeachTalents]

If Pippen got DPOY like he deserved, the Bulls would have won MVP, COY, 6th man and DPOY. That probably hurt him.
What's crazy is the '01 76ers did that

[SouBeachTalents]

It doesn’t bother me that much. Though I do remember getting into a similar GP vs the bigs argument but it was about Zo back when that insane Payton fan Glove or whatever was here.

Generally bigs should win it due to having more total impact but GP is on the short list of guards I’ve seen totally take key players out of games and ruin a game plan. He had Tim Hardaway and Stockton just under lock and key a few times in big games and I have to respect it.

Its hard to compete with big like Drob or Hakeem who essentially guard the whole other team while still being able to switch and stop guys outside though.

You’re probably fundamentally right.
Payton still was more deserving than some bigs that have won it. Chandler & Camby stick out the most in that regard

[imdaman99]

Was watching game 5 of the 1st round series the Sonics had with the Nuggets the other night when NBA TV had it on. That was the series they lost as the 1st seed, he got abused by Robert Pack :biggums: