Scottie Pippen signing a 7 year contract showed why he wasnt built to be 1st option

[STATUTORY]

Pippen was risk averse and mentally soft. He chose the guaranteed dollars instead of betting on himself coming off the back injury, even his owner told him not to sign the contract but he was scared and chose the safe option. Once the contracts went up and he realized he made a bad deal, he tried to back out of it, which again shows a lack of mental fortitude cause he was rustled by the Fear Of Missing Out, which is an effeminate tendency.

Pippen signing his contract then whining about it told you everything you needed to know about him as a player. That was him in a nutshell, great sidekick but not alpha enough to be the man

Pippen had weak hands and couldn't pull the trigger when it came to negotiating a contract, definitely not the type of guy you want to take the last shot.

[trada7029]

Pippen was trash

Always was

Always will be

Everyone is just lying about him now - literally lying - essentially being nice to him like he's needy or something.. that's how he's covered in the media.... no one has more horrific games, chokes, or clutch stats - no one - yet none of this is covered...

[Shogon]

OP is a virgin.


Pippen was trash

Always was

Always will be

Everyone is just lying about him now - literally lying - essentially being nice to him like he's needy or something.. that's how he's covered in the media.... no one has more horrific games, chokes, or clutch stats - no one - yet none of this is covered...

Yeah, the guy that was arguably the best defensive player in the league and at the helm of a lot of the decision making on the court for a 6 time champion was absolute trash. *rolls eyes*

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan signed an 8 year contract for only about half a million more per year. Jordan was a fraud then too, right?

[97 bulls]

These dudes literally hate Scottie Pippen.

Did they not hear Pippen say in the documentary that he had to sign that contract to help his family?

[Roundball_Rock]

These dudes literally hate Scottie Pippen.

They all "happen" to be fans of the same retired player. :lol

[Kblaze8855]

OP is a virgin.



Yeah, the guy that was arguably the best defensive player in the league and at the helm of a lot of the decision making on the court for a 6 time champion was absolute trash. *rolls eyes*


You realize that’s 3ball right?

[trada7029]

Yeah, the guy that was arguably the best defensive player in the league





^^^ No you're just going along with the media lies on this:


DPOY VOTING

1988.... MJ (1st).... Pip (none)
1989.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1990.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1991.... MJ (7th).... Pip (7th)
1992.... MJ (3rd).... Pip (3rd)
1993.... MJ (2nd)... Pip (none)
1996.... MJ (5th).... Pip (2nd)
1997.... MJ (5th).... Pip (4th)
1998.... MJ (4th).... Pip (9th)


^^^^ MJ was clearly considered the better defender AT THE TIME, and Pippen's defensive capabilities have been vastly overrated by revisionist historians... ... the dpoy voting and various other sources (like the NBA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s) confirm the actual sentiment at the time (that MJ was the Bulls' best defender)

And when we're evaluating MJ's "help", the team defensive ranking shows how much total defensive help he had and that matters more than what he got from any one player..

and the Bulls only had the #7 defense during the 1st three-peat - so MJ's overall defensive help was inferior, including a worse defense than every conference finals and Finals opponent (except the Suns' #9 defense)

Ultimately, MJ had the greatest scoring gap ever from his 2nd option, while also having non-elite defensive help (only #7 during first three-peat)

[ImKobe]

^^^ No you're just going along with the media lies on this:


DPOY VOTING

1988.... MJ (1st).... Pip (none)
1989.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1990.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1991.... MJ (7th).... Pip (7th)
1992.... MJ (3rd).... Pip (3rd)
1993.... MJ (2nd)... Pip (none)
1996.... MJ (5th).... Pip (2nd)
1997.... MJ (5th).... Pip (4th)
1998.... MJ (4th).... Pip (9th)


^^^^ MJ was clearly considered the better defender AT THE TIME, and Pippen's defensive capabilities have been vastly overrated by revisionist historians... ... the dpoy voting and various other sources (like the NBA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s) confirm the actual sentiment at the time (that MJ was the Bulls' best defender)

And when we're evaluating MJ's "help", the team defensive ranking shows how much total defensive help he had and that matters more than what he got from any one player..

and the Bulls only had the #7 defense during the 1st three-peat - so MJ's overall defensive help was inferior, including a worse defense than every conference finals and Finals opponent (except the Suns' #9 defense)

Ultimately, MJ had the greatest scoring gap ever from his 2nd option, while also having non-elite defensive help (only #7 during first three-peat)

Yup. Pippen was better in some aspects but Jordan was a better defensive player at his peak, Pip was arguably better during the 2nd 3-Peat but he was younger than MJ and didn't carry the offense nearly as much as Jordan had to.

[Roundball_Rock]

They were different. Jordan the better on the ball defender, Pippen the better team/help defender. Pippen could guard 4 positions, Jordan 3.

[Roundball_Rock]

You realize that’s 3ball right?

How many accounts does he have?

They were different. Jordan the better on the ball defender, Pippen the better team/help defender. Pippen could guard 4 positions, Jordan 3.

[RogueBorg]

^^^ No you're just going along with the media lies on this:


DPOY VOTING

1988.... MJ (1st).... Pip (none)
1989.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1990.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1991.... MJ (7th).... Pip (7th)
1992.... MJ (3rd).... Pip (3rd)
1993.... MJ (2nd)... Pip (none)
1996.... MJ (5th).... Pip (2nd)
1997.... MJ (5th).... Pip (4th)
1998.... MJ (4th).... Pip (9th)




Pippen not getting any votes in '93 is surprising. I get 1989, not 1993. He made the 1st Team All-NBA Defensive Team.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Pippen's contract was a product of the time he signed it. His agent didn't foresee how the money in contracts was going to explode. He's nothing to do with his mentality. Stupid topic.

[Turbo Slayer]

Really OP :facepalm

[LostCause]

Pippen's contract was a product of the time he signed it. His agent didn't foresee how the money in contracts was going to explode. He's nothing to do with his mentality. Stupid topic.

Inb4 (deserved) lock

[Shogon]

You realize that’s 3ball right?

:oldlol:

Makes sense. I didn't know, no. I haven't kept up. I'm guessing he was banned. Lol.

Who was 3ball's main account/other account before this one?

Anyways...

Back to the topic... even if Pippen WASN'T the best defensive player in the league... let's say he was the 5th best or something... let's say he was 20th best... just for argument's sake... lol...

How could anyone label that player as trash? Only ~400+ players in the entire world able to make the NBA at the time and this dude was one of the best handful in the world at defense and yet he's trash? Unreal. Sometimes trolling goes too far.

[ImKobe]

I'd say his lack of scoring ability was the bigger reason. He simply didn't have the skills to be a #1 option on a great team, which is why Jordan almost always scored 10+ more ppg. He could have been the best player on a championship squad in the modern era with shooters around him, but he was never going to be a 25+ ppg scorer that you could count on.

[Shogon]

I'd say his lack of scoring ability was the bigger reason. He simply didn't have the skills to be a #1 option on a great team, which is why Jordan almost always scored 10+ more ppg. He could have been the best player on a championship squad in the modern era with shooters around him, but he was never going to be a 25+ ppg scorer that you could count on.

So you're one of those guys that only sees / primarily values ISO scoring... got it, well, you're not alone, most NBA fans are right there with you.

It's the same reason that Bill Russell doesn't get more mention as the GOAT.

[Roundball_Rock]

So you're one of those guys that only sees / primarily values ISO scoring... got it, well, you're not alone, most NBA fans are right there with you.

It's the same reason that Bill Russell doesn't get more mention as the GOAT.

Yup, and it helps explain why they don't understand those Bulls teams.

Pippen scored 22 in a context where he was the team's primary facilitator. PGs and de facto PGs didn't score 25-30 then like they do today. Nash himself said if he played today he would look to score more but back then the mentality was pass first, score second.

It is odd to set 25 PPG as the cutoff, then say Pippen can't do it because he was at 22 PPG in a point forward role.

Miller is one of those guys they hype because he played against, not with, MJ. Miller was an 20 PPG guy in the 90s when Indiana contended. In 94' he was at 19.9, Pippen 22.0.

Top Perimeter Scorers in the 1993-1994 Season

Wilkins 26.0 (24.4 on ATL)
Richmond 23.4
Pippen 22.0
Rice 21.0

These were the perimeter players in the top 10 in scoring. None of the others was tasked with facilitating or being a defensive anchor. Their job was to do one thing: score. Moreover, they did it on bad teams. Wilkins' season total was inflated by being traded to the Clippers, where he averaged nearly 30.

[97 bulls]

Yup, and it helps explain why they don't understand those Bulls teams.

Pippen scored 22 in a context where he was the team's primary facilitator. PGs and de facto PGs didn't score 25-30 then like they do today. Nash himself said if he played today he would look to score more but back then the mentality was pass first, score second.

It is odd to set 25 PPG as the cutoff, then say Pippen can't do it because he was at 22 PPG in a point forward role.

Miller is one of those guys they hype because he played against, not with, MJ. Miller was an 20 PPG guy in the 90s when Indiana contended. In 94' he was at 19.9, Pippen 22.0.

Top Perimeter Scorers in the 1993-1994 Season

Wilkins 26.0 (24.4 on ATL)
Richmond 23.4
Pippen 22.0
Rice 21.0

These were the perimeter players in the top 10 in scoring. None of the others was tasked with facilitating or being a defensive anchor. Their job was to do one thing: score. Moreover, they did it on bad teams. Wilkins' season total was inflated by being traded to the Clippers, where he averaged nearly 30.

The league as a whole was totally different. Teams just didnt want to run. There was a much bigger emphasis on defense. And most teams tried to get their offense in the post. Put the same Pippen. In the 80s or 10s and hes easily a 25ppg scorer with the same skillset.

[Roundball_Rock]

The league as a whole was totally different. Teams just didnt want to run. There was a much bigger emphasis on defense. And most teams tried to get their offense in the post. Put the same Pippen. In the 80s or 10s and hes easily a 25ppg scorer with the same skillset.

Which they will apply to other 90s players but not Pippen.

Pippen Compared to Select Stars

VORP rankings (1991-1998)

Pippen 10th 5th 9th 5th 3rd 7th 8th N/A
Ewing 14th 8th 15th 8th 18th N/A N/A N/A
Drexler 6th 4th N/A N/A 5th N/A N/A N/A
Payton N/A N/A N/A 18th 10th 10th 7th 4th
Miller 15th N/A 8th 10th 12th 13th N/A 9th
Barkley 5th 6th 4th 13th 11th 11th N/A N/A
Malone 8th 7th 3rd 6th 4th 3rd 3rd 1st

If Pippen sucked, the 90s must have been a super weak era...

[trada7029]

Haha you guys are making up hypothetical scenarios where Pippen somehow scrapes 25 ppg, lol !!....

He simply wasn't capable because he was a bad shooter from literally everywhere and the worst iso player in the top 200 all-time

Actually top 300

And Roundball is reduced to cherry-picking the only stat that pippen doesn't get destroyed in!!!... heck, Horace Grant and Kukoc led Pippen in WS/48 many years!!!

Face facts - by definition, if a 2nd option forces the #1 option to carry the goat scoring load (biggest gap ever between 1st and 2nd option), while still forcing them to get equal assists and more dpoy votes - that's the worst 2nd option ever - Pippen didn't relieve MJ in any area

Guys like Payton, Robinson, or Ewing would've been better 2nd options on both ends

[Elosha]

Haha you guys are making up hypothetical scenarios where Pippen somehow scrapes 25 ppg, lol !!....

He simply wasn't capable because he was a bad shooter from literally everywhere and the worst iso player in the top 200 all-time

Actually top 300

And now presenting, the 301st best iso player of all time.


https://youtu.be/T8_GiznzWbk?t=8


https://youtu.be/wB2NmpVEnjs

[RRR3]

Haha you guys are making up hypothetical scenarios where Pippen somehow scrapes 25 ppg, lol !!....

He simply wasn't capable because he was a bad shooter from literally everywhere and the worst iso player in the top 200 all-time

Actually top 300

And Roundball is reduced to cherry-picking the only stat that pippen doesn't get destroyed in!!!... heck, Horace Grant and Kukoc led Pippen in WS/48 many years!!!

Face facts - by definition, if a 2nd option forces the #1 option to carry the goat scoring load (biggest gap ever between 1st and 2nd option), while still forcing them to get equal assists and more dpoy votes - that's the worst 2nd option ever - Pippen didn't relieve MJ in any area

Guys like Payton, Robinson, or Ewing would've been better 2nd options on both ends
Yes he was definitely a worse ISO player than Ben Wallace :rolleyes:

[Roundball_Rock]

And now presenting, the 301st best iso player of all time.


https://youtu.be/T8_GiznzWbk?t=8


https://youtu.be/wB2NmpVEnjs

He will just paste a "response."

[tontoz]

During their 2nd 3 peat Pippen had back to back seasons shooting 37% from 3 on 5 attempts per game.

[trada7029]

And now presenting, the 301st best iso player of all time.


https://youtu.be/T8_GiznzWbk?t=8


https://youtu.be/wB2NmpVEnjs
^^^ That's all transition and easy assisted finishes from MJ or another tesmmate.. No iso's

So you made my point

Guys like Nick Anderson were equal or better iso players

Top 300 is too high

[97 bulls]

^^^ That's all transition and easy assisted finishes from MJ or another tesmmate.. No iso's

So you made my point

Guys like Nick Anderson were equal or better iso players

Top 300 is too high
Lol this dude is a troll. Cant have a good debate with a liar.

[RRR3]

Yes he was definitely a worse ISO player than Ben Wallace :rolleyes:
3ball avoiding this like the plague.

[trada7029]

Lol this dude is a troll. Cant have a good debate with a liar.

Pippen was a horrible iso player

That's a fact

You just weren't old enough to know what was going on back then, although I've tried to provide some quotes and background.

Terry Porter was a better iso player than Pippen... Ditto Detlef Schrempf... real talk

Maybe you were better than pip too... Did you play ball at all? Okay just kidding... but Pippen was a really bad 1-on-1 player who was a 14 ppg player without the triangle in 89' and 99'.. his clutch stats are literally the worst of all time

[brownmamba00]

His family was piss poor. He did the right thing for his family. I respect that.

[Real Men Wear Green]

This is the second time some idiot has claimed Pippen couldn't shoot. Just because you hate Lebron James doesn't mean Pippen was unskilled. A lot of people saw those Bull teams, you aren't getting away with that lie.

[97 bulls]

Pippen was a horrible iso player

That's a fact

You just weren't old enough to know what was going on back then, although I've tried to provide some quotes and background.

Terry Porter was a better iso player than Pippen... Ditto Detlef Schrempf... real talk

Maybe you were better than pip too... Did you play ball at all? Okay just kidding... but Pippen was a really bad 1-on-1 player who was a 14 ppg player without the triangle in 89' and 99'.. his clutch stats are literally the worst of all time

Quick. Who was a better iso player? Prime Scottie Pippen? Or Oliver Miller

[97 bulls]

This is the second time some idiot has claimed Pippen couldn't shoot. Just because you hate Lebron James doesn't mean Pippen was unskilled. A lot of people saw those Bull teams, you aren't getting away with that lie.

I think hes just trying to get a rise out of folks.

[Roundball_Rock]

Where are these "clutch stats"?


I think hes just trying to get a rise out of folks.

I think their play is to throw as much out there and hope some of it sticks. The prime example is, at least until the doc on Sunday, everybody "knew" Pippen didn't play in Game 7 because MJ stans pushed it so often at so many places. Another is the whole "Pippen made Jordan" myth that a lot of people buy.

They know there aren't enough Pippen people out there to compete with the # of MJ stans. Yeah we can shoot them down in a FB thread but they will pop up the next day or day after that and spew the same BS.

[tpols]

Scottie Pippen was a much, much better scorer (and offensive player) than john starks.

Yet ewing was competitive with john.

Imagine! if pat had pippen and MJ had starks. :roll:

[trada7029]

Tpols is a liar

[trada7029]

Scottie Pippen was a much, much better scorer (and offensive player) than john starks.

Yet ewing was competitive with john.

Imagine! if pat had pippen and MJ had starks. :roll:



Ewing had a sidekick that scored more than Pippen, yet still lost to MJ despite having the better cast

Xavier McDaniel outplayed Pippen severely in the 1992 ECSF - he outscored and outrebounded him - and Starks nearly outscored Pippen - so Ewing had 2 teammates score like Pippen but still lost.

So you're wrong and spreading ignorance - you're infact lying and making things up

Look at the FACTS... Pippen sucked and was outplayed in many key series... many




Scottie Pippen was a much, much better scorer (and offensive player) than john starks.

Yet ewing was competitive with john.

Imagine! if pat had pippen and MJ had starks. :roll:



Pippen was not a much better scorer than Starks.. that's a lie.. he was barely better, maybe not at all.. peak Starks provided spacing and about 20 ppg, while Pippen provided zero spacing and only scored with the triangle

And the Bulls had the lowest-scoring casts ever, less than the Knicks, whose cast was better overall on both ends

[tpols]

the knicks in 1993 didnt have xavier mcdaniel and went up 2-0 on the Bulls.

John starks was total... and complete trash. Ewing actually outplayed MJ.

and if he had pippen instead of john? wouldve won quite easily.

Looking at the spreads, even MJ's role players shit on Ewing's.

:lol

[trada7029]

the knicks in 1993 didnt have xavier mcdaniel and went up 2-0 on the Bulls.

John starks was total... and complete trash. Ewing actually outplayed MJ.

and if he had pippen instead of john? wouldve won quite easily.

Looking at the spreads, even MJ's role players shit on Ewing's.

:lol

So Pippen didn't wet the bed in 1993 like he did in 1992?

Low bar.... :facepalm:... but that's what I expect from Pippen..

so you're making my point - after I reminded you of the 92' ECSF, you introduce another series where Pippen didn't wet the bed........................... lololol

Anyway, your original point was that Ewing would beat MJ if he had a better scorer in place of Starks, like say, Pippen... Except he had a better scorer than Pippen - Xavier McDaniel destroyed Pippen in the 92' ECSF and outscored him, while Starks nearly did too - that proved your theory wrong pretty convincingly - heck, Pippen would be nothing next to Ewing and without MJ to teach him how to play the wing position.. Don't worry bruh - it's okay to say Pippen sucked because he did

[Roundball_Rock]

the knicks in 1993 didnt have xavier mcdaniel and went up 2-0 on the Bulls.

John starks was total... and complete trash. Ewing actually outplayed MJ.

and if he had pippen instead of john? wouldve won quite easily.

Looking at the spreads, even MJ's role players shit on Ewing's.

:lol

1993 ECF

Pippen 23/7/4 on 51%
Ewing 26/11/3 on 53%
Starks 15/4/6 on 45%

So Pippen as a SF shot as well as a C. (MJ shot 40% in this series, including 17% with the Bulls down 0-2. Fortunately Pippen shot 83% and the rest of the team saved MJ.) Pippen was huge in this series in key games and moments, especially when MJ uncharacteristically wasn't.

1992 ECSF

Pippen 17/8/7 on 40%
Ewing 22/11/2 on 49%
McDaniel 19/6/2 on 50%

So McDaniel did well but they replaced him with Charles Smith because small sample sizes are fluky. In Game 7 Pippen was 17/11/11 while McDaniel was 14/7/0. So X didn't show up when it counted but Pippen did.

Starks crashed and burned as a second option. We all saw it. It was sad Ewing had so little help.

[tpols]

Scottie Pippen was the leading scorer in game 3 of the 1993 series... on both teams.

Starks never did that.

Pippen also demolished everybody on the Bulls in DRTG.

MJ had a dead even 107-107 spread in 1992 against the knicks lmao.

Scottie Pippen was in the plus because he had a much better DRTG than Jordan.

:biggums:

Both series shit on you mate.

[trada7029]

Scottie Pippen was the leading scorer in game 3 of the 1993 series... on both teams.

Starks never did that.

Pippen also demolished everybody on the Bulls in DRTG.

MJ had a dead even 107-107 spread in 1992 against the knicks lmao.

Scottie Pippen was in the plus because he had a much better DRTG than Jordan.

:biggums:

Both series shit on you mate.

You're like a guy falling off a cliff grasping at anything he can as he goes down... Lol

It's funny that Pippen's own horrific play in the 1992 ECSF shut down your troll... Not me - I didn't shut you down - Pippen being a horrible player did, just like I said he WAS... it's perfect

Again, Ewing would not win with Pippen in Starks' place, because Ewing already had a guy that played better than Pippen and destroyed him - X-man - he threw Pippen around like a rag doll and terrified him - Pippen couldn't look him in the eyes - FACTS - mj had to literally save him from crying on the court..

I think part of MJ liked picking up after Scottie and treating him like a son, so he overlooked Pip's frequent screw-ups (like pip delaying surgery, or his many horrible series)

[tpols]

You're like a guy falling off a cliff grasping at anything he can as he goes down... Lol


The projection is real. :lol

Pat Ewing had a better ORTG than MJ in BOTH series.

His teammates completely shit the bed compared to Jordan's.

[trada7029]

The projection is real. :lol

Pat Ewing had a better ORTG than MJ in BOTH series.

His teammates completely shit the bed compared to Jordan's.

I'll always remember this day as the day 3ball had to rip apart his own kind .. like a hyena... Sorry bruh, had to do it... Can't be blindly posting that Pippen revisionist lies/crap... his OWN SHITTY PLAY will bury you against an astute poster... But it's okay, knowledge is your reward

[tpols]

hyena lmao.

this is your pauk lion king moment mate.

im sorry i had to do it.

[Axe]

Lol you're undermining pippen's greatness once again. And mind you, his stats don't dictate it at all. 🥴

[trada7029]

hyena lmao.

this is your pauk lion king moment mate.

im sorry i had to do it.

You illustrated better than I ever could how Pippen was trash

Not even good enough to be Ewing's sidekick in 92'... yikes

And btw, Pippen's 93' run < Wade's 14'.... Facts

[trada7029]

Lol you're undermining pippen's greatness once again. And mind you, his stats don't dictate it at all. ��



Yes a picture says 1000 words:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-07-2019/4EMYLq.gif



Scottie "no eye contact" Pippen

What an amazing sidekick that has MJ's back and sticks up for MJ!!!

[tpols]

i have no doubt scottie pippen wasnt an alpha. MJ had to step in for him there.

But his lack of alphaness doesnt matter when hes infinitely more talented (and impactful) at the game of basketball than John Starks.

a person with down syndrome could be aggressive. doesnt mean theyre better than pippen at basketball.

[ShawkFactory]

Yes a picture says 1000 words:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-07-2019/4EMYLq.gif



Scottie "no eye contact" Pippen

What an amazing sidekick that has MJ's back and sticks up for MJ!!!
So we're actually now questioning Pippen as a "sidekick".

Get banned..come back and troll harder.

[Axe]

Yes a picture says 1000 words:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-07-2019/4EMYLq.gif



Scottie "no eye contact" Pippen

What an amazing sidekick that has MJ's back and sticks up for MJ!!!
Man, I don't know if I'd feel bad for you because of this, 3ball.

[trada7029]

i have no doubt scottie pippen wasnt an alpha. MJ had to step in for him there.

But his lack of alphaness doesnt matter when hes infinitely more talented (and impactful) at the game of basketball than John Starks.

a person with down syndrome could be aggressive. doesnt mean theyre better than pippen at basketball.



Ralph Sampson was more talented than Ewing... Didn't make him the better player

I agree that Pippen is more talented than Starks, but he's honestly just a little better basketball player than peak Starks, who was an all-defensive, 20-point scorer and jumpshooter.. Pippen wasn't much better than that

And again, Ewing doesn't win shit with Pippen, because he had guys that outplayed Pippen but still lost.. Pippen's bar just wasn't high.

For example, Pippen's "impact" was often less than Kukoc or Grant if we're using WS/48... That's a good metric for teammates because the stats are pegged to the same number of wins.. apparently, Pippen was outplaying his matchup by the same amount or less than Grant and Kukoc - that's how you should think about his "dominance" (good role player level)... And the raw stats reflect that (good role player level, not superstar)

[Roundball_Rock]

Scottie Pippen was the leading scorer in game 3 of the 1993 series... on both teams.

Starks never did that.


All you need to know about Starks is 2 for 18.

Starks averaged 13.9 off the bench in 92', 17.5 in 93', and 19.0 in 94'. After "2 for 18" he collapsed (similar to Nick Anderson's collapse after choking in the finals the next year). 15.3 then 12.6 by 96'. Starks made one all-star team, zero all-NBA teams, one all-D (2nd) team, won 6th MOY once. This was prime Ewing's second option when the Knicks were contenders...meanwhile MJ had one of the top 20-30 players eve.


Again, Ewing would not win with Pippen in Starks' place, because Ewing already had a guy that played better than Pippen and destroyed him - X-man

:lol

Xavier McDaniel made 1 all-star team, in 88'. He was 14/6/2 in 92'--this was the Knick's Pippen. Meanwhile Pippen was 21/8/7 and all-NBA second team.
Ewing had him for only 1 year of them contending and the X Man, who had a good series, didn't show up for Game 7 while Pippen had a triple double.


His teammates completely shit the bed compared to Jordan's.

It was sad to see. Jordan didn't make a field goal for the final 22 minutes of Game 6 in the ECF, MJ shot 17% in Game 3. His teammates stepped up in those games and at key junctures in other games. Pippen led the charge but BJ made some big shots too. Meanwhile Ewing got no corresponding help from his teammates.

[tpols]

Listen... Ewing out ORTG Jordan in two series.

Was obviously the better defender... a 7 foot anchor on a better defensive team.

There's no excuse.

Michael Jordan having Scottie Pippen changed the landscape of basketball.

Knicks wouldve won at least 1. MJ cant quit due to "dominance". Perhaps has to face Hakeem on equal terms.

it starts going down hill from there... Pippen was the GOAT 2nd option of the 90s by far.

[knicksman]

So you're one of those guys that only sees / primarily values ISO scoring... got it, well, you're not alone, most NBA fans are right there with you.

It's the same reason that Bill Russell doesn't get more mention as the GOAT.

nah most fans are stats/triple doubles. Its the players that values ISO scoring. Why do you think the greatest winners are the best iso scorers? Coz they understand how important it is.

[97 bulls]

nah most fans are stats/triple doubles. Its the players that values ISO scoring. Why do you think the greatest winners are the best iso scorers? Coz they understand how important it is.

Actually, that's not true. Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, Tim Duncan, wouldn't be considered great scorers. It's not a coincidence that Michael Jordan is the only player to win a championship and lead the league in scoring.

[knicksman]

Actually, that's not true. Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, Tim Duncan, wouldn't be considered great scorers. It's not a coincidence that Michael Jordan is the only player to win a championship and lead the league in scoring.

magic had kareem, tim duncan is one of the best post players. Bill russell? well good luck building around a player like him in todays league.

[Elosha]

^^^ That's all transition and easy assisted finishes from MJ or another tesmmate.. No iso's

So you made my point

Guys like Nick Anderson were equal or better iso players

Top 300 is too high


WTF are you talking about 3 Ball?? Did you even watch the videos? There were tons of isolation players, post ups, contested jumpers, dunks in the half court after beating his man off the dribble, drives with creative finishes, skilled bank shots, blowbys, crossovers, etc. I tried to save the youtube urls at about a dozen of these plays, but ISH doesn't permit it. Yes, Pippen was great in transition, but he was well above the average NBA player in creating his own shot . Don't be an idiot. Yes Jordan was substantially a better isolation player than Pippen, but since he's probably the best ever at that, there's no shame to Pippen. And it doesn't mean that Pippen wasn't good at it, even if he was even better at transition. Particularly before Pippen's back started to give out, he was a very creative player even in the half court.

Don't be an idiot, next time watch the videos.

[SATAN]

Why do people even respond to 3ball? The guy is an absolute moron.

[Elosha]

The projection is real. :lol

Pat Ewing had a better ORTG than MJ in BOTH series.

His teammates completely shit the bed compared to Jordan's.

3Ball might be saying some stupid stuff about Pippen overall, but he's not wrong that Pippen played very poorly in 92 against NY. During the series, everyone was amazed b/c Pippen had been dunking so much all year, but didn't get his first dunk until I believe game 7. NY was intimidating and physical as fu*k with Wilkens, Xavier, Oakley, and Ewing, with Starks coming off the bench. You youngins' laugh at the Knicks and think they were not talented but they were tough and hungry as hell. Ewing was a fiery competitor who feasted on Cartwright (but no, lol, he didn't outplay Jordan in 92 or 93 OTRG be damned). Jordan was double and tripled teamed during those series, and fouled like hell, and the Knicks tried to emulate the Bad Boy Pistons and knock the hell out of Pippen.

If those Knicks came into today's league and were allowed to play as they were in the 90's, they'd put the fear of God in every team in the league, and beat all but the best of them.

[tontoz]

WTF are you talking about 3 Ball?? Did you even watch the videos? There were tons of isolation players, post ups, contested jumpers, dunks in the half court after beating his man off the dribble, drives with creative finishes, skilled bank shots, blowbys, crossovers, etc. I tried to save the youtube urls at about a dozen of these plays, but ISH doesn't permit it. Yes, Pippen was great in transition, but he was well above the average NBA player in creating his own shot . Don't be an idiot. Yes Jordan was substantially a better isolation player than Pippen, but since he's probably the best ever at that, there's no shame to Pippen. And it doesn't mean that Pippen wasn't good at it, even if he was even better at transition. Particularly before Pippen's back started to give out, he was a very creative player even in the half court.

Don't be an idiot, next time watch the videos.

3ball doesnt watch games and hasnt for years. He definitely didnt watch your vid.

Xman wasnt on Pippens level as a player but he was very physical and obviously bullying Pippen trying to intimidate him, taking a page from the Pistons. If i remember right that series went 7 games. The Knicks were a good, tough team. Maybe not as dirty as the Pistons but similarly physical.

[Smoke117]

3Ball might be saying some stupid stuff about Pippen overall, but he's not wrong that Pippen played very poorly in 92 against NY. During the series, everyone was amazed b/c Pippen had been dunking so much all year, but didn't get his first dunk until I believe game 7. NY was intimidating and physical as fu*k with Wilkens, Xavier, Oakley, and Ewing, with Starks coming off the bench. You youngins' laugh at the Knicks and think they were not talented but they were tough and hungry as hell. Ewing was a fiery competitor who feasted on Cartwright (but no, lol, he didn't outplay Jordan in 92 or 93 OTRG be damned). Jordan was double and tripled teamed during those series, and fouled like hell, and the Knicks tried to emulate the Bad Boy Pistons and knock the hell out of Pippen.

If those Knicks came into today's league and were allowed to play as they were in the 90's, they'd put the fear of God in every team in the league, and beat all but the best of them.

He made up for that in 93 when he was arguably the MVP of the Knicks series with no performance being bigger than his game 3 where he had 29pts on 12 shots when they were down 0-2. He would hit a lot of big shots throughout the series. That 93 season is also when he would put on more muscle and pretty much have the physique and weight he'd have the rest of his career. That 92 series vs Knicks is probably what prompted him to put on that muscle. He wouldn't be as quick as he used to be, but he was obviously stronger.

[Elosha]

He made up for that in 93 when he was arguably the MVP of the Knicks series with no performance being bigger than his game 3 where he had 29pts on 12 shots when they were down 0-2. He would hit a lot of big shots throughout the series. That 93 season is also when he would put on more muscle and pretty much have the physique and weight he'd have the rest of his career. That 92 series vs Knicks is probably what prompted him to put on that muscle. He wouldn't be as quick as he used to be, but he was obviously stronger.

I'll actually agree with you there, and I've said the same thing before. Even SI was saying at the time that Pippen was arguably the MVP of that 93 ECF and I've said the same too. Hit huge clutch shots in game 6, had a great game3 and 5, along with Jordan (each had close to 30 points and trible doubles), winning in NY, the biggest game of the series. While Jordan played great in games 4 and 5, he shot poorly for much of the series, and Pippen was arguably more consistent. It's likely the only playoff series in which Jordan was possibly outplayed by a teammate.

[Roundball_Rock]

but he's not wrong that Pippen played very poorly in 92 against NY.

By his standards. He went 16/8/7 including 17/11/11 in Game 7 and is remembered as having a terrible series. X Man didn't show up for Game 7.

What happened after that series? 20/11/6 against Cleveland including 29/12/5/4 to close out the Cavs and 21/8/8 against Portland including leading the 4th quarter comeback in Game 6 when he was the only starter on the floor. (Keep in mind these numbers come with dominant defense that doesn't show up on the stat sheet.)

What did the #1 options on the other side do in these series? Price was 18/2/5 and Drexler 25/8/5 (on 41%--Pippen shot 48%). So maybe Pippen is a total fraud but the fact is he was considered one of the best players of his era and regularly outplayed the #1 option on the other team. Weak era then, right?


Ewing was a fiery competitor who feasted on Cartwright

His numbers aren't as good as you would think against the Bulls...


He made up for that in 93 when he was arguably the MVP of the Knicks series with no performance being bigger than his game 3 where he had 29pts on 12 shots when they were down 0-2. He would hit a lot of big shots throughout the series.

They never mention that. Remember MJ had one of his worst series. He shot 40-41% and was worse if you took out his monster Game 4. MJ shot 17% when the Bulls were facing an 0-3 deficit in Game 3. Pippen shot 83%. In 93' the Knicks, lacking the talent to win on the court, tried the same thuggish tactics. It didn't work.

In Game 6 Jordan made 0 field goals in the final 22 minutes (despite firing away). Pippen was there to lift him up.


Even SI was saying at the time that Pippen was arguably the MVP of that 93 ECF and I've said the same too.

When I said "they" above I meant the MJ crowd, not you. :oldlol: Yes, I remember SI saying Pippen was the MVP of the series. Here it is:


A VERSATILE STAR LED THE BULLS TO A 4-2 ELIMINATION OF THE KNICKS, AND HE WASN'T NAMED JORDAN


It was not surprising that Jordan was able to pick up Pippen, of course; such acts are part of Superman's daily agenda. But it was intriguing to see Pippen step into the temporary vacuums left by the sometimes physically exhausted and mentally overburdened Jordan (page 13). For the first time in Chicago's three successive marches into the NBA Finals, in fact, a Bull other than Jordan would have deserved to be named MVP in a playoff series, were such an honor awarded for a series other than the Finals.

https://vault.si.com/vault/1993/06/14/eye-of-the-storm-a-versatile-star-led-the-bulls-to-a-4-2-elimination-of-the-knicks-and-he-wasnt-named-jordan