Kobe Bryant vs Kevin Durant

[Lebron23]

Who's the better player? Who has the better career???

[Akeem34TheDream]

Better career? Easily Kobe. Unless Durant wins titles with Nets. Better player? I'm not sure. Better first option to win a title? Kobe.

[Soundwave]

I think Durant might be more gifted overall because of the extra height, but Kobe was mentally tougher so I give the nod to Kobe. KD needs to win a title with the Nets I think.

That's pretty close though.

[Dr Hawk]

Kobe by far.

They might be close as purely basketball players (I would still go with Kobe 10 times out of 10), but as team leaders, Durant is nowhere close from Kobe.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Who do you guys think has the better mid-range jumpshot?

[Akeem34TheDream]

Who do you guys think has the better mid-range jumpshot?

KD easily.

[Doranku]

Kobe by far.

They might be close as purely basketball players (I would still go with Kobe 10 times out of 10), but as team leaders, Durant is nowhere close from Kobe.

This sums it up nicely.

[Mr Feeny]

Durant is o obviously the better player. But I'd rather have Kobe's career. Granted, Durant isn't done yet.

[nayte]

Better player prob Durant . Career is kobe

[Rysio]

Kobe the more skilled player but it's way easier to score for KD I think Kobe is more valuable on a championship team but its close.

[Manny98]

Durant passes Kobe when he delivers Brooklyn a championship

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe the more skilled player but it's way easier to score for KD I think Kobe is more valuable on a championship team but its close.

I'm not sure what thats supposed to mean. Carmelo is more "skilled" than Lebron but isnt even 1/10th of the player. Sabonis is more skilled than Shaq and isnt 1/50th of the player.

[Rysio]

I'm not sure what thats supposed to mean. Carmelo is more "skilled" than Lebron but isnt even 1/10th of the player. Sabonis is more skilled than Shaq and isnt 1/50th of the player.

Talent is king but talent with skill is even better.

[Mr Feeny]

Talent is king but talent with skill is even better.

By talent, are you talking about athleticism?

[Rysio]

By talent, are you talking about athleticism?

Mostly yea

[SATAN]

Kobe by far.

They might be close as purely basketball players (I would still go with Kobe 10 times out of 10), but as team leaders, Durant is nowhere close from Kobe.

This. These moronic comparisons are out of control.

[SATAN]

Carmelo is more "skilled" than Lebron

:lol

[Mr Feeny]

Mostly yea

But even relatively less skillful players like Shaq are among the 5 greatest players who have ever lived. That tells you that individual dominance is predicated in large part on athleticism.

In other words, I'd rather have a "no skill"atheltic freak like Shaq or Lebron (both in the top 5 ever) than a skillful mediocre player who cant stack up when it comes to the all time discussions.

[Axe]

Durant passes Kobe when he delivers Brooklyn a championship
Yup, because 3>5, duh...

[Phoenix]

Shaqs skills have become underrated IMO. No, nobody is going to confuse him with Hakeems skillset on the block, but Shaq always had great footwork, pivots, spins, and developed a decent baby hook off the glass and one handed short turnaround. I think if he was strictly a force/strength based talent he wouldn't have ascended as high as he peaked. All-star? Yeah. Top 5 alltime peak and arguably top 5 GOAT? I don't think so.

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaqs skills have become underrated IMO. No, nobody is going to confuse him with Hakeems skillset on the block, but Shaq always had great footwork, pivots, spins, and developed a decent baby hook off the glass and one handed short turnaround. I think if he was strictly a force/strength based talent he wouldn't have ascended as high as he peaked. All-star? Yeah. Top 5 alltime peak and arguably top 5 GOAT? I don't think so.
His longevity's become the most underrated aspect about him. He was a legitimate superstar for a decade, played at an elite level for like 12-13 years, and was even making the All-NBA Team at 37 years old

[tpols]

Durant is a bigger freak talent because of his size, skill, and mobility (which are a GOAT package), but like others have said he didnt have Kobe's end prime leadership, competitiveness, toughness or general intangibles. He's basically a freak individual component that doesnt rub off on others in the same way. Kobe could demoralize opponents and rally his teammates with 25 points. Durant gets that without anybody even noticing.

[Turbo Slayer]

Kobe all the way! Mamba mentality!

[Wally450]

Better player is Durant as weak minded as he is. Durant with Kobe's mentality would be the best player in the league by far.

[Turbo Slayer]

https://media.giphy.com/media/eJiYW9lbplheg/giphy.gif

I'm sorry KD is in a lower tier than Kobe.

[Phoenix]

His longevity's become the most underrated aspect about him. He was a legitimate superstar for a decade, played at an elite level for like 12-13 years, and was even making the All-NBA Team at 37 years old

Exactly. He hit the ground running as a rookie and was probably among the top 7-8 players from the moment he stepped on the court.

[Manny98]

Yup, because 3>5, duh...
3 rings as the best player > 2

[LeCroix]

Better career? Easily Kobe. Unless Durant wins titles with Nets. Better player? I'm not sure. Better first option to win a title? Kobe.
Cosign

[Axe]

3 rings as the best player > 2
The first 2 rings which he got against lbj? Ok, 2 rings.. 💩

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

3 rings as the best player > 2
3 of those rings are due to joining up with other franchise players which includes a guy who already won a championship as the man

[Whoah10115]

Durant is obviously not in the tier of Kobe, but Kobe is an inarguable top 10 player. Sure, some will argue it, but I can technically argue that those people aren't message board warriors...but I can't really argue it.

Durant could still be a top 25 player, but he's never gonna be in the top 15. Kobe and LeBron are in the same tier, and they are ahead of Kevin Durant.


Shaqs skills have become underrated IMO. No, nobody is going to confuse him with Hakeems skillset on the block, but Shaq always had great footwork, pivots, spins, and developed a decent baby hook off the glass and one handed short turnaround. I think if he was strictly a force/strength based talent he wouldn't have ascended as high as he peaked. All-star? Yeah. Top 5 alltime peak and arguably top 5 GOAT? I don't think so.

Kinda like the Cristiano Ronaldo scoring goals but a declining level of play for over half his career. Sounds insulting, but it's true. Shaq got away with a ton.

In fact, randomly caught the Kings blowing Game 4 in 2002 yesterday. Saw the whole thing (embarrassing because I didn't remember they'd also blown Game 3, and all the bad calls PLUS Game 6 lead me to lose a lot of sympathy and empathy for their getting scewed). Shaq had a great up and under against Vlade, rather than just bowling him over (give Vlade credit as I've never seen him so tough, barely flopped).

On replay, Shaq clearly locked his elbows at Vlade's face. Should have been an offensive foul. During his peak, he clearly became a better player...yet not. He had more moves earlier in his career, and he got away with less. In the Laker championship days, his stats weren't any better than they were earlier in his career, but overall his offensive impact was greater. Kobe was already a better player than Penny, but I think Shaq did more of his own work at that point.

All that being said, you're right. His footwork is actually quite exceptional. There weren't a lot of good centers during those years, and obviously fewer great ones than in the first third of his career. Would have been great to watch him have to use his entire skillset.

[Roundball_Rock]

Kobe easily. Was Durant ever clearly the best player in the league like Kobe was for several years? 2019 is Durant's strongest claim but you have Giannis, Harden, Kawhi also in the conversation.


Shaqs skills have become underrated IMO. No, nobody is going to confuse him with Hakeems skillset on the block, but Shaq always had great footwork, pivots, spins, and developed a decent baby hook off the glass and one handed short turnaround. I think if he was strictly a force/strength based talent he wouldn't have ascended as high as he peaked. All-star? Yeah. Top 5 alltime peak and arguably top 5 GOAT? I don't think so.

Yup. It is sad. He is getting more underrated as time goes by. I would not be surprised if he slips out of fans' top 10.

I would say he had a top 5 peak pretty easily, arguably the best. It is hard to get him to the top 5 all-time but I have him 6th. He was more dominant than Bird, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem and he had better longevity Bird, Magic, Hakeem easily and is comparable to Duncan and Kobe (probably a little more than Kobe, a little less than Duncan). Shaq was a top 5 player from 1994-2005 and top 10 for 1993-2006. People don't realize how long his run was.

[sportjames23]

Kobe easily. Was Durant ever clearly the best player in the league like Kobe was for several years? 2019 is Durant's strongest claim but you have Giannis, Harden, Kawhi also in the conversation.



Yup. It is sad. He is getting more underrated as time goes by. I would not be surprised if he slips out of fans' top 10.

I would say he had a top 5 peak pretty easily, arguably the best. It is hard to get him to the top 5 all-time but I have him 6th. He was more dominant than Bird, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem and he had better longevity Bird, Magic, Hakeem easily and is comparable to Duncan and Kobe (probably a little more than Kobe, a little less than Duncan). Shaq was a top 5 player from 1994-2005 and top 10 for 1993-2006. People don't realize how long his run was.

This is probably the first time I've ever agreed with you.

[iamgine]

Kobe easily. Was Durant ever clearly the best player in the league like Kobe was for several years? 2019 is Durant's strongest claim but you have Giannis, Harden, Kawhi also in the conversation.
I think a lot of people feel Kobe was always behind prime Shaq, Duncan, Lebron. On some years behind Garnett and Nowitzki as well.

[Roundball_Rock]

I think a lot of people feel Kobe was always behind prime Shaq, Duncan, Lebron. On some years behind Garnett and Nowitzki as well.

2006-2008 it was Kobe pretty clearly. LeBron took a leap in 2009 and surpassed him and you had Wade, Howard rise in the same time frame to give Kobe further comp behind LeBron for 2-4.

[lilteapot]

I think a better question is who's more unguardable/the better scorer. I would say KD.

[Carbine]

Did I really just read Durant could be top 25?

He's top 15 right now if he never played again.

In this era, he's better than Kobe was. He can play with any type of player and still be himself because he can score 30 without pounding the rock into the floor. His defense with Warriors was All-NBA caliber and his versatility would give him the nod over Kobe IMO, he was their C on defense for stretches of play and it worked well for the Warriors. That's unique.

[iamgine]

2006-2008 it was Kobe pretty clearly. LeBron took a leap in 2009 and surpassed him and you had Wade, Howard rise in the same time frame to give Kobe further comp behind LeBron for 2-4.

I dunno if it's that clear to a lot of people.

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe easily. Was Durant ever clearly the best player in the league like Kobe was for several years? 2019 is Durant's strongest claim but you have Giannis, Harden, Kawhi also in the conversation.



Yup. It is sad. He is getting more underrated as time goes by. I would not be surprised if he slips out of fans' top 10.

I would say he had a top 5 peak pretty easily, arguably the best. It is hard to get him to the top 5 all-time but I have him 6th. He was more dominant than Bird, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem and he had better longevity Bird, Magic, Hakeem easily and is comparable to Duncan and Kobe (probably a little more than Kobe, a little less than Duncan). Shaq was a top 5 player from 1994-2005 and top 10 for 1993-2006. People don't realize how long his run was.

When exactly was Kobe meant to be the best player in the league?:oldlol:
Please tell me you arent about to compare Durant and Kobe at their peaks because Durant is miles ahead of the best version of Kobe.

[Mr Feeny]

Did I really just read Durant could be top 25?

He's top 15 right now if he never played again.

In this era, he's better than Kobe was. He can play with any type of player and still be himself because he can score 30 without pounding the rock into the floor. His defense with Warriors was All-NBA caliber and his versatility would give him the nod over Kobe IMO, he was their C on defense for stretches of play and it worked well for the Warriors. That's unique.

I don't know if that's clear to a lot of the laker and Kobe fanboys.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Kobe is without a doubt a better defender and a more dangerous scorer

[Mr Feeny]

2006-2008 it was Kobe pretty clearly. LeBron took a leap in 2009 and surpassed him and you had Wade, Howard rise in the same time frame to give Kobe further comp behind LeBron for 2-4.

I dont know what you're smoking but Dirk was a much better player in those years.
Kobe had 1 point in the 2nd half of the biggest game of the season in 2006 and was not even close to the best player during the season. Dirk and Nash were clearly ahead. As was Duncan.

2007? Is this a joke? The gap between dirk and Kobe was even bigger here.
2008? Forget about the fact that he was badly outplayed in the most important moments of the nba finals by Paul Pierve, who lead the Celtics to the largest comeback in nba history on Kobe's home floor while Kobe wet the bed under pressure as usual, or the fact the 39 point humiliation in which Kobe went 7-22 and showed no leadership, but what argument do you think 2008 Kobe has 2008 Lebron?

Lebron, Paul, Garnett were all higher. And pretty easily.

Lebron led the league in PER for the first time and most fans think he was the best player in 2008 even though I dont think youll9 find Lebron being arrogant enough to claim that he was.

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe is without a doubt a better defender and a more dangerous scorer

The 40% finals scorer? And 25% finals game 7 scorer? Not a chance. Durant is so far ahead of him as scorer.

[Phoenix]

Durant is obviously not in the tier of Kobe, but Kobe is an inarguable top 10 player. Sure, some will argue it, but I can technically argue that those people aren't message board warriors...but I can't really argue it.

Durant could still be a top 25 player, but he's never gonna be in the top 15. Kobe and LeBron are in the same tier, and they are ahead of Kevin Durant.



Kinda like the Cristiano Ronaldo scoring goals but a declining level of play for over half his career. Sounds insulting, but it's true. Shaq got away with a ton.

In fact, randomly caught the Kings blowing Game 4 in 2002 yesterday. Saw the whole thing (embarrassing because I didn't remember they'd also blown Game 3, and all the bad calls PLUS Game 6 lead me to lose a lot of sympathy and empathy for their getting scewed). Shaq had a great up and under against Vlade, rather than just bowling him over (give Vlade credit as I've never seen him so tough, barely flopped).

On replay, Shaq clearly locked his elbows at Vlade's face. Should have been an offensive foul. During his peak, he clearly became a better player...yet not. He had more moves earlier in his career, and he got away with less. In the Laker championship days, his stats weren't any better than they were earlier in his career, but overall his offensive impact was greater. Kobe was already a better player than Penny, but I think Shaq did more of his own work at that point.

All that being said, you're right. His footwork is actually quite exceptional. There weren't a lot of good centers during those years, and obviously fewer great ones than in the first third of his career. Would have been great to watch him have to use his entire skillset.

Shaqs raw stats in 1994 and 2000 were pretty much the same off memory. I don't have the advanced stuff in front of me ( and too lazy to look it up) but he was doing 29/14 6 years before he won as a Laker. The numbers on the surface look similar but he was a more cerebral and thoughtful player in 2000. Better passing out of doubles and reading the court. He was more nimble on the Magic, faster, lighter on his feet, but a more indomitable force during his Lakers peak. Shaq was often getting swept out of the playoffs his first half a dozen seasons. Don't think you're doing that with 2000-2002 Shaq. Of course his teammates played roles in that, but I just can't see Utah sweeping that version of him. Even the Bull in 96. 2000 Shaq isnt allowing a sweep in that series even with the loss of Grant.

[Phoenix]

Kobe easily. Was Durant ever clearly the best player in the league like Kobe was for several years? 2019 is Durant's strongest claim but you have Giannis, Harden, Kawhi also in the conversation.



Yup. It is sad. He is getting more underrated as time goes by. I would not be surprised if he slips out of fans' top 10.

I would say he had a top 5 peak pretty easily, arguably the best. It is hard to get him to the top 5 all-time but I have him 6th. He was more dominant than Bird, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem and he had better longevity Bird, Magic, Hakeem easily and is comparable to Duncan and Kobe (probably a little more than Kobe, a little less than Duncan). Shaq was a top 5 player from 1994-2005 and top 10 for 1993-2006. People don't realize how long his run was.

For me Shaq was top 8 as a rookie. Top 3 from 94 to 99. Best from 2000-2002. A minor dip in 2003 and 2004 but still top 2-3. Top 5 in 05( many would say he was a deserving MVP that year). A bit iffy on 2006. He was clearly on the back nine, probably still top 6-7 but he was starting to concede to Wade and he wasnt producing the same level of statistical domination.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

The 40% finals scorer? And 25% finals game 7 scorer? Not a chance. Durant is so far ahead of him as scorer.
Kobe is more likely to go off for 40-50 pts on any given night,can't say the same thing for KD despite having 4 scoring titles.Also doesn't help that he lacks the killer mentality.

[Doranku]

The 40% finals scorer? And 25% finals game 7 scorer? Not a chance. Durant is so far ahead of him as scorer.


When exactly was Kobe meant to be the best player in the league?:oldlol:
Please tell me you arent about to compare Durant and Kobe at their peaks because Durant is miles ahead of the best version of Kobe.


:oldlol: What a joke. Kobe's biggest knock is his efficiency, yet Durant in OKC was even more inefficient in the playoffs than Kobe was as a near 7 footer.

25 ppg on 35/29/87
29 ppg on 45/34/84
29 ppg on 52/37/86
31 ppg on 46/31/83
30 ppg on 46/34/81
28 ppg on 43/28/89

Kobe was more efficient '06-10 and actually won with Pau Gasol while Durant managed a lone finals game win with two MVP winners. :lol Durant didn't look "unstoppable" until he joined a team that went 73-9 without him. A team where he had zero leadership responsibilities. A team that was so stacked that nobody even values or argues in favor of his FMVPs. It's night and day compared to what Kobe did with the '09 and '10 Lakers.

[aj1987]

:oldlol: What a joke. Kobe's biggest knock is his efficiency, yet Durant in OKC was even more inefficient in the playoffs than Kobe was as a near 7 footer.

25 ppg on 35/29/87
29 ppg on 45/34/84
29 ppg on 52/37/86
31 ppg on 46/31/83
30 ppg on 46/34/81
28 ppg on 43/28/89

Kobe was more efficient '06-10 and actually won with Pau Gasol while Durant managed a lone finals game win with two MVP winners. :lol Durant didn't look "unstoppable" until he joined a team that went 73-9 without him. A team where he had zero leadership responsibilities. A team that was so stacked that nobody even values or argues in favor of his FMVPs. It's night and day compared to what Kobe did with the '09 and '10 Lakers.

KD in the PO's in OKC - 57.5% TS%

Kobe has literally two seasons with a better TS%. 4, if you include the RS as well.

[tpols]

Durant is a more efficient shooter than kobe. thats the only thing he has over him.

Kobe is the better

passer
playmaker
defender
post player
leader
crunchtime scorer
dunker
etc.

you name it.

Durant had a chance to be on kobe's level but the golden state thing ruined it for him. He was exposed as a whiny "brat" player. very insecure.

If you were to measure the respect kobe gets and the respect durant gets from players, it'd be a landslide.

[StrongLurk]

Ehh, they are pretty much equal talent/skill wise. KD has top 10-15 type talent clearly...I think I would take prime Kobe over prime Durant slightly, but definitely would take Durant in the finals.

[scuzzy]

Durant is the better all around player by far, he does everything Bryant did but better.


He'd be drafted over Kobe 10/10 times

[tpols]

Ehh, they are pretty much equal talent/skill wise. KD has top 10-15 type talent clearly...I think I would take prime Kobe over prime Durant slightly, but definitely would take Durant in the finals.

thats kinda skewed by going against lebron everytime though dude.

he never looked nearly as dominant in the west, against good defense. I imagine the statistical differential would be staggering if looked up.

[scuzzy]

thats kinda skewed by going against lebron everytime though dude.

he never looked nearly as dominant in the west, against good defense. I imagine the statistical differential would be staggering if looked up.
Baby Durant pushed Kobe's shit in a quick 5 games

Poor bean never sniffed a post season after that massacre, makes sense why he begged Mitch to sell the future for Nash and Dwight that summer.

[bizil]

I think this one could be a matter of taste. Once KD upped the ante in terms of passing and defense, he became AS SKILLED as any SF ever. By that, I mean his blend of scoring skillset, handles, defense, and passing as a package. He's a 50-40-90 guy who can ALSO dominate the midrange area at 6'11! With that said, I would narrowly take Kobe because his motor IN TERMS of his two way ability in addition to his epic skillset would give him the edge. But I'm not gonna argue at all if one went with KD on this one.

[Carbine]

Durant is a more efficient shooter than kobe. thats the only thing he has over him.

Kobe is the better

passer
playmaker
defender
post player
leader
crunchtime scorer
dunker
etc.

you name it.

Durant had a chance to be on kobe's level but the golden state thing ruined it for him. He was exposed as a whiny "brat" player. very insecure.

If you were to measure the respect kobe gets and the respect durant gets from players, it'd be a landslide.

None of those things matter. Dunker? When did this become a thing of measuring who I want to take?

Here's what matters.

1) When you have the ball, how often does it result in an open look for his team

2) If you shoot it, how efficient are you

That is literally the only thing that anyone should measure an offensive player against. Kobe is great at this, but Durant is better. I don't put much emphasis on regular season numbers, although Durant is a 4 time scoring champ. It's all about the playoffs for me.

Durant has entire post season runs of scoring 28.5 a game on damn near 70 TS percentages, has another one at 28.5 a game on 63 with OKC and he was dropping a Jordanish 32+ ppg on an insane 66 TS before his injury last year. His career playoff is 29 a game on 60 TS

Watching him play at his best, which is what we witnessed with GS when he wanted to score, he got any shot he wanted and scored pretty much whenever he wanted too. Nobody can do anything with that version of Durant.

He won finals MVP against his direct contemporary who happens to be many peoples GOAT in back to back seasons.

#8 Kobe was a better defender, individually so there is that but Durants versatility on defense is a unique asset in this era and was a huge reason why he made GS the best team ever, IMO.

Durant should get more respect as the years go by and we start to give credit to him in an historical sense that he deserves. He's going down as one of the 10 best players of all time.

[tpols]

Durant never had anything 70 TS except Golden State... where he faced total single coverage in one of the most stacked offenses of all time.

Where defenses always threw the book at Curry and Klay instead due to their explosive nature.

Durant, even on OKC, never faced the defensive attention Kobe did. He was known for getting locked down 1v1 by tony allen and even chris paul in the playoffs.

You just arent able to comprehend context my guy. Kobe not only faced more resistance, he passed and eluded his way out of it far more than Durant ever could.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da9Rfz5P2aQ

Durant cant do that ^^^. He operates as an individual (big time) cannon. Not the engine of the ship.

Kobe was both.

[Manny98]

3 of those rings are due to joining up with other franchise players which includes a guy who already won a championship as the man

So KD was the alpha on the Warriors

He led the greatest team in NBA history

What has Kobe done outside of ride on Shaq and Gasols back his entire career

[Docs Orders]

Baby Durant pushed Kobe's shit in a quick 5 games

Poor bean never sniffed a post season after that massacre, makes sense why he begged Mitch to sell the future for Nash and Dwight that summer.

That's the kicker, when they faced H2H in the playoffs young Durant mopped his balls across Kobe's face


Notice how Tpols swiftly ducked this point and continued irrelevant rambling on Kobe's facing other teams, it's a tough pill to swallow. 6-16 even worse

[Manny98]

Baby Durant pushed Kobe's shit in a quick 5 games


I forgot about that :roll:

[Turbo Slayer]

Durant never had anything 70 TS except Golden State... where he faced total single coverage in one of the most stacked offenses of all time.

Where defenses always threw the book at Curry and Klay instead due to their explosive nature.

Durant, even on OKC, never faced the defensive attention Kobe did. He was known for getting locked down 1v1 by tony allen and even chris paul in the playoffs.

You just arent able to comprehend context my guy. Kobe not only faced more resistance, he passed and eluded his way out of it far more than Durant ever could.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da9Rfz5P2aQ

Durant cant do that ^^^. He operates as an individual (big time) cannon. Not the engine of the ship.

Kobe was both. Kobe have a better assist-to-turnover ratio than KD. Kobe 1.57 KD 1.31 :applause::rockon: Kobe is the superior passer.

[tpols]

Kobe have a better assist-to-turnover ratio than KD. Kobe 1.57 KD 1.31 :applause::rockon: Kobe is the superior passer.

and he handled the rock more.

it really has nothing to do with that though. Just look at the creativity and breadth of playmaking in the video i linked.

Comparing durant to kobe is like comparing george gervin to magic johnson.

it's insane....

[StrongLurk]

and he handled the rock more.

it really has nothing to do with that though. Just look at the creativity and breadth of playmaking in the video i linked.

Comparing durant to kobe is like comparing george gervin to magic johnson.

it's insane....

What??? Your sentence is what's insane.

Nobody should be compared to Kobe right now EXCEPT for Durant. Durant is really the true "heir" of the MJ/Kobe line. Not saying KD is better than Lebron all time, but KD was the best scorer of the 2010 decade. Durant literally averaged 29.1ppg on 59.7TS% this decade in the playoffs

A guy like Lebron is in the Magic/Oscar lineage (with a twist of course), just like Durant is in the MJ/Kobe lineage (his twist being that he is 6'11").

[tpols]

No... Kawhi is the heir.

Durant's playmaking and passing is totally lackluster plus his puny strength has led to him being bullied countless times.

He's just like george gervin the "iceman"... skinny and lanky and skilled as hell midrange and in transition scoring.

He makes kobe look like magic.

It's a good analogy.

[dbugz]

both better than LeBron that's for sure

[scuzzy]

That's the kicker, when they faced H2H in the playoffs young Durant mopped his balls across Kobe's face


Notice how Tpols swiftly ducked this point and continued irrelevant rambling on Kobe's facing other teams, it's a tough pill to swallow. 6-16 even worse


I forgot about that :roll:

2nd round swept to Terry

2nd round backdoor to baby Durant

1st round swept to toddler Kawhi

lottery

lottery

lottery


Pretty much all generational talent from this decade made easy work off Kobe. With Giannis it's highly probably prime Kobe wouldn't even be top 5 today. No one bats an eye over Trey's high scoring games or Booker's 70 in lottery seasons. Prime Kobe playing as a Hawk/Sun in 2020, same result. Shit, even Harden on a top team gets ridiculed for all his chucking.

[Turbo Slayer]

and he handled the rock more.

it really has nothing to do with that though. Just look at the creativity and breadth of playmaking in the video i linked.

Comparing durant to kobe is like comparing george gervin to magic johnson.

it's insane.... True Kobe is a higher usage rate player
than KD

[IllegalD]

Yet another meltdown post by the insecure pinoy.

Dude's been losing his mind ever since The Last Dance premiered..... :roll:

[Turbo Slayer]

2nd round swept to Terry

2nd round backdoor to baby Durant

1st round swept to toddler Kawhi

lottery

lottery

lottery


Pretty much all generational talent from this decade made easy work off Kobe. With Giannis it's highly probably prime Kobe wouldn't even be top 5 today. No one bats an eye over Trey's high scoring games or Booker's 70 in lottery seasons. Prime Kobe playing as a Hawk/Sun in 2020, same result. Shit, even Harden on a top team gets ridiculed for all his chucking. One of the worst takes Ive seen.:facepalm

[Turbo Slayer]

2nd round swept to Terry

2nd round backdoor to baby Durant

1st round swept to toddler Kawhi

lottery

lottery

lottery


Pretty much all generational talent from this decade made easy work off Kobe. With Giannis it's highly probably prime Kobe wouldn't even be top 5 today. No one bats an eye over Trey's high scoring games or Booker's 70 in lottery seasons. Prime Kobe playing as a Hawk/Sun in 2020, same result. Shit, even Harden on a top team gets ridiculed for all his chucking. Youre telling me a Prime Kobe wouldnt be Top 5? Tf :biggums:

[Turbo Slayer]

A Prime Kobe would drop 40 a game in this era!
! :bowdown:

[Run DLC]

I’d lean slight to,Durant. Kobe had the better career. Durant is a more efficient scorer. Kobe was a better playmaker and perimeter defender. In terms of who would I want to be the leader of my team, no doubt about it, Kobe had a stronger mental leadership. In terms of having a team that’s already built with all the pieces intact and just need one more lethal scorer to icing on the cake, then it’s Durant. Overall, Kobe had a better legacy.

[SATAN]

A lot of posters here are completely delusional or just plain stupid.

[Axe]

A lot of posters here are completely delusional or just plain stupid.
Could it be that because they're so alike to you, our dear fiend? 🤔

[Run DLC]

Their styles are very similar. It’s just that Durant is just more efficient across all the metrics. I know y’all are optimistic about Durant winning with the Nets, but I just don’t see it. He doesn’t have that “IT” factor when it comes to making his teammates better, neither did Kobe if we’re being honest, but moreso Durant. As a leader and playmaker, Durant will have a lot to prove next season in order to enhance his legacy, but as I said, I highly doubt he can get better at this stage of his career. He’s a finished product. He’s(IMO) the greatest scorer in league history in terms of his ability to score with ease, but he’ll never be as complete as LeBron, MJ, etc in terms of being highly productive as more than just a great scorer.

[SATAN]

Could it be that because they're so alike to you, our dear fiend? ��

You are one of the worst posters here. **** off.

[Axe]

You are one of the worst posters here. **** off.
Oh sorry, dear fiend. I didn't realize truth does actually hurt a lot.

[SATAN]

You have the worst grammar on this forum. **** off.

[Axe]

You have the worst grammar on this forum. **** off.
Okay, if you say so...

https://i.imgflip.com/3hqyil.gif

[Doranku]

KD in the PO's in OKC - 57.5% TS%

Kobe has literally two seasons with a better TS%. 4, if you include the RS as well.

Durant's TS% is only that high because of his FT shooting. Look at Durant's efficiency from the floor. Pedestrian for a guy with his size and basically identical to '06-10 Kobe's efficiency.. except Kobe was winning rings while Durant was getting dusted by the Spurs every year.

Mind you, this is just efficiency.. basically Durant's only claim to fame. Playmaking, defense, leadership... there isn't even an argument to be had. Kobe blows him out of the water on all fronts.

KD > Kobe is a very low IQ take.

[brownmamba00]

KD is weak. Dude is a soap opera.

[Carbine]

Durants only claim to fame is efficient scoring?

You just described Adrian Dantley, not KD

[brownmamba00]

Imagine getting chased out of town by a loudmouth scrub triple single draymond green

[SouBeachTalents]

Imagine getting chased out of town by a loudmouth scrub triple single draymond green
The biggest irony is he's the one who was lobbying the hardest for Durant. Dude was literally hitting him up the night they lost Game 7 to join the team :oldlol:

[Axe]

Dray getting angry at kd for making a cakewalk of their last two title runs? 😂

[Gougou]

Kobe as an overall player he is better. KD scoring efficiency is better than Kobe, that's it.

[brownmamba00]

The biggest irony is he's the one who was lobbying the hardest for Durant. Dude was literally hitting him up the night they lost Game 7 to join the team :oldlol:

Kd got played. They used him just to stick it to lebron.

When he wanted free reign; draymond put him in his place. Probably cornered kd somewhere after practice and scared him. The millenial that is kd tucked his tail between his legs and bounced out of town.

Them midwest dudes are not to be trusted.

[Mr Feeny]

Durant is a more efficient shooter than kobe. thats the only thing he has over him.

Kobe is the better

passer
playmaker
defender
post player
leader
crunchtime scorer
dunker
etc.

you name it.

Durant had a chance to be on kobe's level but the golden state thing ruined it for him. He was exposed as a whiny "brat" player. very insecure.

If you were to measure the respect kobe gets and the respect durant gets from players, it'd be a landslide.

Durant is a much better scorer in every way possible. He is a much better offensive player overall. He is a better defensive player. He has a bigger basketball IQ.

And he doesn't shrink in the finals into a 40% shooter.

[ImKobe]

Durant is a much better scorer in every way possible. He is a much better offensive player overall. He is a better defensive player. He has a bigger basketball IQ.

And he doesn't shrink in the finals into a 40% shooter.

KD plays in a much weaker defensive era and he isn't really as efficient as you think. Bunch of terrible shooting series from 2013-16. KD's played with another superstar all his career basically and had the two greatest 3PT shooters ever spacing the floor for him the past 3 seasons. We saw how bad he was when Westbrook went down in the 2013 Playoffs.

Old ass Kobe was just as good as Durant in the post and could have taken the scoring title from him in the last game of the 2012 season and outscored him in the Playoffs when they went H2H.

You can just blindly argue the box score numbers but obviously we're talking about two different eras here, Durant's OKC stint was kind of underwhelming when you look at the number of times he came up short in the Playoffs, he just wasn't as good of an all-around player as Kobe.

[Mr Feeny]

KD plays in a much weaker defensive era and he isn't really as efficient as you think. Bunch of terrible shooting series from 2013-16. KD's played with another superstar all his career basically and had the two greatest 3PT shooters ever spacing the floor for him the past 3 seasons. We saw how bad he was when Westbrook went down in the 2013 Playoffs.

Old ass Kobe was just as good as Durant in the post and could have taken the scoring title from him in the last game of the 2012 season and outscored him in the Playoffs when they went H2H.

You can just blindly argue the box score numbers but obviously we're talking about two different eras here, Durant's OKC stint was kind of underwhelming when you look at the number of times he came up short in the Playoffs, he just wasn't as good of an all-around player as Kobe.

We have seen Kobe play in the same era, with no handchecking.
And he wasn't half the offensive player that Durant is.

Underwhelming way is an interesting word or choice. Awful more accurately describes Kobe's offense under pressure.

[G0ATbe]

When we’re talking strictly as players and not career it’s clearly Durant:confusedshrug:

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

How many seasons can we qualify Durant as an elite defender?Putting effort on the defensive end would be double work.

[Rysio]

Durant is a much better scorer in every way possible. He is a much better offensive player overall. He is a better defensive player. He has a bigger basketball IQ.

And he doesn't shrink in the finals into a 40% shooter.

I bet your one of those retards that thinks Adrian dantley is better player than iverson or Kobe.

[Turbo Slayer]

Kobe is my pick.

Kobe has more CORP (meaning that X player impacts winning on a random team or average team) than Kevin Durant.

Kobe- 1.50 CORP

KD- 1.00 CORP

Also it's worth noting that Kobe did impact winning far longer than KD ever did.

Here is the link: https://backpicks.com/2017/10/02/the-plus-minus-goat-list-1994-2016/

[Turbo Slayer]

Kobe at his zenith developed a smooth pull up and an arsenal of finishes at the hoop

One example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=k4gOb_u0nw0&feature=emb_title

Another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=7NoCMQCY4FI&feature=emb_title

[Turbo Slayer]

Kobe had the ability to control his body mid air and finish:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzsvbheXscg

[Turbo Slayer]

Like I mentioned eariler in my previous posts... Kobe is the superior passer in every way and the assist-to-turnover ratio supports my claim.

Kobe 1.57 KD 1.31

[Mr Feeny]

I bet your one of those retards that thinks Adrian dantley is better player than iverson or Kobe.

"Your" "retards"

Oh, the irony.

[Mr Feeny]

When we’re talking strictly as players and not career it’s clearly Durant:confusedshrug:

And it isn't even close. Kobe couldn't sniff Durant, as a player.

[Turbo Slayer]

Cutting seasons where both players sat some games or were injured or played less than 1500 minutes per season... Kobe bests KD in points per 100 possessions

Kobe- 37.1 points

KD- 36.8 points

[Mr Feeny]

Cutting seasons where both players sat some games or were injured or played less than 1500 minutes per season... Kobe bests KD in points per 100 possessions

Kobe- 37.1 points

KD- 36.8 points

Why on earth are you cherry picking seasons. We have their career numbers. Durant is a much better scorer in the regular season and in the playoffs. A much better scorer in the finals.

And does it on a higher efficiency.

[Turbo Slayer]

Cutting seasons where both players sat some games or were injured or played less than 1500 minutes per season... Kobe bests KD in points per 100 possessions

Kobe- 37.1 points

KD- 36.8 points Also Kobe has more OWS, DWS, WS, and VORP currently.

[Turbo Slayer]

Why on earth are you cherry picking seasons. We have their career numbers. Durant is a much better scorer in the regular season and in the playoffs. A much better scorer in the finals.

And does it on a higher efficiency. Yeah. Kevin Durant was a more efficient scorer I can give you that. But more explosive?

# of 50 points games

Kobe- 25

KD- 6

KD's career high: 54

Kobe career high in 1 half: 55

[StrongLurk]

Anyone who thinks Kobe is easily or clearly better than Durant needs to get their heads checked. Durant's dominance has honestly been understated due to him playing during the same time and same position as Lebron Raymone James.

[Run DLC]

Anyone who thinks Kobe is easily or clearly better than Durant needs to get their heads checked. Durant's dominance has honestly been understated due to him playing during the same time and same position as Lebron Raymone James.

Yeah, I agree. Kevin Durant is the GOAT.

[Mr Feeny]

Yeah. Kevin Durant was a more efficient scorer I can give you that. But more explosive?

# of 50 points games

Kobe- 25

KD- 6

KD's career high: 54

Kobe career high in 1 half: 55

Number of 50 point finals games :

Lebron 1 vs Kobe 0

Number of Lebron finals playoff games:

Lebron 7 vs Kobe 1

Don't even mention Kobe in the same breath as Lebron as a scorer, in that case.

Career high's? Ray Allen has a 51 point playoff game while Kobe has never hit that mark in his entire playoff career.

How many scoring titles does Kobe have? What's his career scoring average?

Go ahead and post them I'll be waiting.

[Mr Feeny]

Also Kobe has more OWS, DWS, WS, and VORP currently.

Are you confused? These are cumulative stats. Kobe played 20 seasons and Durant hasn't finished his career.

Post their PERs and ws/48. I'll be waiting.

For the regular reason. Playoffs. And finals.

[Rysio]

Number of 50 point finals games :

Lebron 1 vs Kobe 0

Number of Lebron finals playoff games:

Lebron 7 vs Kobe 1

Don't even mention Kobe in the same breath as Lebron as a scorer, in that case.

Career high's? Ray Allen has a 51 point playoff game while Kobe has never hit that mark in his entire playoff career.

How many scoring titles does Kobe have? What's his career scoring average?

Go ahead and post them I'll be waiting.

50 points Vs weak warriors defense. Kobe would average 40+ Vs those warrior teams in his prime

[Turbo Slayer]

How many scoring titles does Kobe have? What's his career scoring average?

Go ahead and post them I'll be waiting. Less than KD.

[Turbo Slayer]

Less than KD.

[aj1987]

Durant's TS% is only that high because of his FT shooting. Look at Durant's efficiency from the floor. Pedestrian for a guy with his size and basically identical to '06-10 Kobe's efficiency.. except Kobe was winning rings while Durant was getting dusted by the Spurs every year.

Mind you, this is just efficiency.. basically Durant's only claim to fame. Playmaking, defense, leadership... there isn't even an argument to be had. Kobe blows him out of the water on all fronts.

KD > Kobe is a very low IQ take.

I really don't give a shit about the KD vs Kobe debate, but KD is definitely more efficient than Kobe and that's a FACT. FT's are a part of scoring. Why would you remove them? :facepalm

[Whoah10115]

I see three straight posts of genuinely stupid people, from Carbine to Trump avatar to Feeney.

Three genuinely stupid posts, from three genuinely stupid people. Durant top 15? My goodness.

[Phoenix]

Yeah, I agree. Kevin Durant is the GOAT.

Lol. Nuanced takes aren't a hallmark of ISH is it?

[Carbine]

I see three straight posts of genuinely stupid people, from Carbine to Trump avatar to Feeney.

Three genuinely stupid posts, from three genuinely stupid people. Durant top 15? My goodness.

4X Scoring champ
2X Finals MVP
1X Reg MVP

That resume alone makes him top 15 right now.

[dankok8]

Hearing people saying that Durant is the better player? How? Kobe in his prime was as good a scorer, a better ball handler. a better defender, and of course a better leader. Kobe proved he can carry two teams to titles in LA without Shaq. Durant didn't prove anything by joining a 73-win team. KD still never carried a team to a championship. Durant is in the KG/Dirk category all time (basically borderline top 20) until and unless he wins a title with Brooklyn. It's not like his title don't count but people have to understand that any HOFer in his prime would win 2+ titles at GS. The likes of Pierce, T-Mac, Nique… Not that they are as good as KD but winning those titles doesn't elevate his legacy. KD was a top 25 all timer in OKC and he still is now.

[Carbine]

I see three straight posts of genuinely stupid people, from Carbine to Trump avatar to Feeney.

Three genuinely stupid posts, from three genuinely stupid people. Durant top 15? My goodness.

4X Scoring champ
2X Finals MVP
1X Reg MVP

That resume alone makes him top 15 right now.

[SouBeachTalents]

4X Scoring champ
2X Finals MVP
1X Reg MVP

That resume alone makes him top 15 right now.
But we both know those 2 FMVP's come with a huge asterisk

[Carbine]

Not to me & not historically. People were saying LeBron going to Miami will forever discredit him from any future GOAT discussions back then......

He went head up against half the peoples GOAT and outplayed him on the biggest stage, back to back. That's as good as it gets for "legacy" building.

[LostCause]

People are so confused when it comes to Durant. Compare him with say, LeBron? His championships and FMVPs don’t count. His stats are inflated cuz single coverage. Compare him to Kobe? 2 rings as best player. Look at his stats as best player. Lol

Durants obviously more efficient than Kobe and all things considered they’re in the same class as scorers. Kobe though is a much better playmaker/passer, and a far better leader. Someone mentioned earlier Kobe never made his teammates better. That’s false. What happened to Smush Parker, Jordan Farmar, Sasha Vujacic, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Shannon Brown etc after leaving the Lakers? People called the team stacked when he won championships with some of these guys but aside from Ariza and Gasol, none of them did anything afterward or we’re out of the league entirely. To that point, who can even be named from OKC as being elevated by Durant? Ibaka is probably the only person who seemed to have their best years playing alongside him, but what other role players were elevated there? Most players excelled when they got away from KD. I could be misremembering players though so if anyone can correct me feel free

Overall it’s not easy to choose, but I’ll roll with Kobe

[Walk on Water]

Kobe is the better player. KD could never have as many 50 point games. As far as talent, it’s still Kobe. The thing KD has in his advantage is his height and so mid range shots are easier for him. Kobe has to work harder for certain shots, but Kobe also has more moves. He can make the tough shots. KD on the other hand isn’t as much of a game changer.

And also why not mention defense? Who has the 12 All NBA defensive honors? Certainly not KD.

Like I said KD’s advantage is his height but everything else goes to Kobe.

[Turbo Slayer]

Not to me & not historically. People were saying LeBron going to Miami will forever discredit him from any future GOAT discussions back then......

He went head up against half the peoples GOAT and outplayed him on the biggest stage, back to back. That's as good as it gets for "legacy" building.

How could you respect a guy like KD who went to the enemy? LeBron and Kobe never did that bullshit.

Kobe over KD. I dont give a shit!

The bottom line was that KD never accomplished shit in OKC and never brought a title to them.

[Turbo Slayer]

Okay, enough ranting. Peace out.

[RRR3]

Kobe is clearly higher on the GOAT list. You can debate who was actually better at basketball though. I do prefer Kobe's ability to run an offense, and as Doranku said, before Durant joined GS, his efficiency in the playoffs wasn't that much better than Kobe's. I think it depends on how much you value Durant's ability to get off a clean look against basically anyone versus Kobe's more all-around game. From what I know, I think Kobe generally had more impact.

[Run DLC]

How could you respect a guy like KD who went to the enemy? LeBron and Kobe never did that bullshit.

Kobe over KD. I dont give a shit!

The bottom line was that KD never accomplished shit in OKC and never brought a title to them.

You’re wrong and here’s why. Durant is greater all-time than both of them. He singlehandedly knocked LeBron out in back-to-back finals. He was a one man army. He impacted the game in so many ways and made Curry a much better player. There’s only one player who should be mentioned in the same sentence with Durant and that is, MJ. Durant is the GOAT.

1. Durant
2. MJ
3. Kareem

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Durant is greater all-time than both of them. He singlehandedly knocked LeBron out in back-to-back finals.
Kobe was waiting for LeBron in 2008,2009,2010 finals

[Turbo Slayer]

You’re wrong and here’s why. Durant is greater all-time than both of them. He singlehandedly knocked LeBron out in back-to-back finals. He was a one man army. He impacted the game in so many ways and made Curry a much better player. There’s only one player who should be mentioned in the same sentence with Durant and that is, MJ. Durant is the GOAT.

1. Durant
2. MJ
3. Kareem Nah you dont get to revise history!

KD joined a team with Curry, Klay, Dray, and Iggy.

Its not a one man team!

[tpols]

KD on the warriors was a 1 man army :roll:

man... only here.

Only here.

[SouBeachTalents]

KD on the warriors was a 1 man army :roll:

man... only here.

Only here.
Bro he was CLEARLY being sarcastic :oldlol:

[Akeem34TheDream]

You’re wrong and here’s why. Durant is greater all-time than both of them. He singlehandedly knocked LeBron out in back-to-back finals. He was a one man army. He impacted the game in so many ways and made Curry a much better player. There’s only one player who should be mentioned in the same sentence with Durant and that is, MJ. Durant is the GOAT.

1. Durant
2. MJ
3. Kareem

Interesting. I have Kawhi as GOAT.
1.Kawhi
2.Jordan
3.Kareem

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe for most things already said. Durant's shooting makes this close though, which is a testament to how good he is. I mean...dude isn't the all-around player Kobe was. At all.

KD is probably a top 5 scorer ALL TIME.

[Smoke117]

Durant, obviously.

[And1AllDay]

Better career? Easily Kobe. Unless Durant wins titles with Nets. Better player? I'm not sure. Better first option to win a title? Kobe.

This obviously

[Naero]

Greater career? Easily Kobe's.

We don't need to belabor how much more valuable Kobe's two leaderly rings are than Durant's; in fact, you could have a legitimate discussion on whether or not those 2017-2018 championships even outvalue Kobe's sidekick ones from 2001-2002.

Better player? That's much more debatable.

As a GM, I'd be tempted to build around Durant because he is:

-More physically gifted
-The better shot-selector (and thus the more efficient scorer)
-The lengthier defender

But I'd probably balk at it in the end when accounting for their playoffs track records. Defenses zero in on superstars in that realm, and Durant hasn't made them pay as fatally as Kobe has because of the latter's superior playmaking.

Kobe's Western Conference three-peat from 2008-2010 still props him up over many modern-day superstars not just as an all-time great but as a player. Durant has yet to engineer any similar postseason run as the team's clear-cut leader, and he flamed out in his one postseason as the lone superstar in 2013 (when Westbrook was sidelined).

KD's definitely been the better Finals-performer (albeit, capitalizing off of a porous Cavaliers' defense for most of those appearances), but he's scarcely even reached that stage without an Olympian supporting cast in large part because of how shakily he's played in the Western playoffs.

Don't even get me started on leadership intangibles, too.

Durant can disprove me, of course—and I hope he does, as I love to see ATGs burnish their legacies before my eyes—but I'm not holding my breath on that. Between his Achilles rupture and this likely-protracted hiatus, his prime years might not even extend to the 2020s.

[Whoah10115]

Durant, obviously.

You're smart enough in other points you make to know you're uttering a pile of bullshit.

You don't like Kobe and you think his D is overrated. There is simply no comparing, as Kobe's impact is greater. He's in a tier of all-timers that Durant is not.

Bryant is a better defender and the only thing overrated about his defense is the total number of All-Defensive teams, because he did have a few seasons where he either wasn't focusing intelligently, or when he wasn't as good over the course of the regular season. But even with blocks, length and all that, Durant doesn't impact a game on the defensive end like Bryant did. He doesn't handle the ball, make plays, make passes, nearly as well. And while there's a lot to be said about his ability to score within an offense, efficiently, and without dominating the ball and then getting his shot when he needs, he simply doesn't impact the game as much as Kobe, strictly as a scorer. Taking into account the rest of their offensive games, and evaluating high impact?

It's not a matter of taste. Kobe can carry a team and win in a way Durant does not. He was the best player in the world from 06 to the last title, and he was really ybe best player well before that.

Why people need to hate on Bryant is beyond me. Hating how annoying he was, how obnoxious he got, playing for the Lakers, the Kings series, his early petulance and obsession with everyone else calling him a killer? Yeah, I get that. But hating on him to the point that you discard him as a player and to fail -for yourself- to see him for what he was? That's just genuinely stupid. Validates the trolls who view and post the way they do, and pretty much allows for us all to view and discuss the game as we prefer, rather than for what it is.

[Axe]

At this rate, you'd wonder if kobe can carry another franchise to a championship had he played for another team that may be more inferior to the lakers. Doesn't undermine his greatness though.

[Nike D'Antoni]

I think Kobe. But post-Achilles, I think Durant came better.

[John8204]

Durant had the skillset to be one of the all-time greats but his mind and fragile ego burned any chance at him crossing into the top twenty. The dude left rings on the table...Kobe would have never done that.

[Smook A.]

Durant had the skillset to be one of the all-time greats but his mind and fragile ego burned any chance at him crossing into the top twenty. The dude left rings on the table...Kobe would have never done that.

He's already easily a top 15 player of all time

[kawhileonard2]

Kobe pretty handily. Kobe is the best player of anyone that played from 2010 going forward.