Put 31 year old Jordan on the Cavs in place of LeBron on the 2015-2016 Cavs..

[Mamba4Life]

What happens that season?

Remember Kyrie was injured until January that season, Cavs had no other PG, and they had no depth at the SF position either

What record do the Cavs get, how do they do in the playoffs?

[red1]

I consider that a championship-calibre season for lbj. he got finals MVP votes playing without a second or third option and still making it a six game series. great play throughout the entire playoffs.

https://i.gifer.com/Qkbq.gif

[Mamba4Life]

I consider that a championship-calibre season for lbj. he got finals MVP votes playing without a second or third option and still making it a six game series. great play throughout the entire playoffs.

https://i.gifer.com/Qkbq.gif

That was a diff season...

[And1AllDay]

2016 LeBron did what PRIME KD could not do

Beat 73 win warriors

then you factor in #2 options and Russ outperformed Kyrie those series too

Russ 27/11/7/4/2
Kyrie 27/4/4/2/1

[red1]

That was a diff season...

my bad I just read the 2015, which is what I was talking about.


2016 season is even better. :)

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan is a better fit for an already good team so presumably they do better (i.e., do not go 3-1 in the first place). LeBron is better at raising the floor with scrubs and average players. Any team with prime LeBron will get to around 50 wins.

[3ball]

.
THRU 31 YEARS OLD (thru 93' and 16').. (playoff stats are linked to source data)




PLAYOFFS PER GAME



Jordan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game)... 34.7 ppg.. 6.7 rpg.. 6.6 apg.. 2.3 spg.. 1.0 bpg.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ortg.. 29.6 PER
Lebron (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html)... 28.0 ppg.. 8.8 rpg.. 6.8 apg.. 1.8 spg.. 0.9 bpg.. 47.8 fg.. 56.7 ts.. 115 ortg.. 27.7 PER




PLAYOFFS PER 100 POSSESSIONS



Jordan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1993-sum:playoffs_per_poss)... 43.9 pts.... 8.5 reb.. 8.4 ast.. 4.2 tov.. 2.9 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ortg.. 29.6 PER
Lebron (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html)... 36.4 pts.. 11.5 reb.. 8.8 ast.. 4.6 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 47.8 fg.. 56.7 ts.. 115 ortg.. 27.7 PER




FINALS PER GAME:



Jordan Finals... 36.3 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 7.9 apg.. 2.7 tov.. 2.0 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 52.6 fg
Lebron Finals... 27.0 ppg.. 9.9 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 45.4 fg



Jordan's first 3 rings required 25-33% more scoring with better efficiency than Lebron's 3 rings, while still getting equal or greater assists... :eek:



It's 2 easy...... because you guys stan a fraud.. he avoids contested jumpers and employs a brand that turns teammates into spot-up shooters, therefore needing ready-made stars (team-hopping).. the most overrated athlete ever.. a perennial underdog and loser with super-teams
.

[tpols]

if you gave MJ the 2015 cast from the start he'd buy into Blatt's princeton offense, and Cleveland would be the 2010's dynasty.

they would run train on the east, and then have the shooting to beat golden state.

Can you imagine the warriors single covering jordan even with love and kyrie out?

:biggums:

[Axe]

Interesting. They should have kept blatt instead of letting crappy lue take over.

[3ball]

if you gave MJ the 2015 cast from the start he'd buy into Blatt's princeton offense, and Cleveland would be the 2010's dynasty.

they would run train on the east, and then have the shooting to beat golden state.

Can you imagine the wariors single covering jordan even with love and kyrie out?

:biggums:
https://media.giphy.com/media/wAxlCmeX1ri1y/giphy.gif

[Mamba4Life]

https://media.giphy.com/media/wAxlCmeX1ri1y/giphy.gif

How far does Jordan go?

[3ball]

How far does Jordan go?

The Warriors needed a last resort (an 8-point player off the bench) to beat Allen Iverson in the 2015 Finals (Lebron shot 39% on 33 shot attempts)

so MJ wins the title with surprising ease as his goat trademark - efficiency at high volume - was the only thing preventing lebron from winning that series..

[AirBonner]

No Pip?

[Mamba4Life]

The Warriors needed a last resort (an 8-point player off the bench) to beat Allen Iverson in the 2015 Finals (Lebron shot 39% on 33 shot attempts)

so MJ wins the title with surprising ease as his goat trademark - efficiency at high volume - was the only thing preventing lebron from winning that series..

LeBron averaged 13 rebounds and 9 assists

Jordan’s 4 rebounds and 2 assists would get swept

[3ball]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-28-2020/hyp2rb.gif




No Pip?

Teammates played at capacity or pretty close next to Jordan - so jordan's high volume was needed at #1 option, and only Jordan could shoot well at such high volume...

So the Bulls win zero chips with anyone outside of Jordan because only Jordan could shoot well at the high volume required

People think MJ has a lot more fmvp's than everyone - but the category where he holds the biggest lead is high volume, high efficiency seasons (see chart above)

[AirBonner]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-28-2020/hyp2rb.gif


Teammates played at capacity or pretty close next to Jordan - so jordan's high volume was needed at #1 option, and only Jordan could shoot well at such high volume...

So the Bulls win zero chips with anyone outside of Jordan because only Jordan could shoot well at the high volume required

People think MJ has a lot more fmvp's than everyone - but the category where he holds the biggest lead is high volume, high efficiency seasons (see chart above)



Grant and Armstrong were not at capacity. They were all stars once MJ retired

[3ball]

Grant and Armstrong were not at capacity. They were all stars once MJ retired

Grant's career high (capacity) was 15/11 in 1995... He got 14/10 alongside Mike in 1992 and was generally near this capacity

Similarly, Armstrong was close to his highs alongside MJ.

So again, teammates played at capacity or pretty close next to Jordan - so jordan's high volume was needed at #1 option, and only Jordan could shoot well at such high volume...

So the Bulls win zero chips with anyone outside of Jordan because only Jordan could shoot well at the high volume required

People think MJ has a lot more fmvp's than everyone - but the category where he holds the biggest lead is high volume, high efficiency seasons (see chart above)

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan doesn't lift teams that aren't already good without him that much. He takes good teams and makes them great. LeBron does the opposite: carries scrubs or average teams to 50+ wins but lacks the ceiling of MJ on good teams. I suspect MJ would do better with the 2016 Cavs but LeBron with the 2018 Cavs.

[warriorfan]

The Warriors needed a last resort (an 8-point player off the bench) to beat Allen Iverson in the 2015 Finals (Lebron shot 39% on 33 shot attempts)

so MJ wins the title with surprising ease as his goat trademark - efficiency at high volume - was the only thing preventing lebron from winning that series..

So true. Never really have heard LeBron fans address the fact that LeBron shot Allen Iverson percentages in the 2015 Finals.

[Roundball_Rock]

So true. Never really have heard LeBron fans address the fact that LeBron shot Allen Iverson percentages in the 2015 Finals.

The aj1987 guy "tried" to do it here http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?479554-Kareem-vs-Lebron-(The-definitive-case-for-Lebron)/page7 .

[Duncan21formvp]

Considering Kyrie already outplayed the best player on the Warriors, how would the Cavs not do better?

[3ball]

Jordan doesn't lift teams that aren't already good without him that much. He takes good teams and makes them great. LeBron does the opposite: carries scrubs or average teams to 50+ wins but lacks the ceiling of MJ on good teams. I suspect MJ would do better with the 2016 Cavs but LeBron with the 2018 Cavs.
I'm happy to inform you that the stats refute your theory:

In 1989, the 47-win Bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8.

So that was a lottery roster that mj carried to the cusp of the Finals - indeed, Phil inherited a team on the cusp of the Finals (probably makes Finals if Pip doesn't miss game 6 in 89')

Btw, in the process of MJ dragging a lottery cast to the cusp of the Finals, and beat the #1 SRS team that had 3 3xall-stars plus Ron Harper.. that was a better opponent and bigger talent deficit than lebron ever overcame in the East

[AirBonner]

MJ couldn’t fill the holes LeBron did. LeBron is the ultimate hole filler

[Roundball_Rock]

You can see the difference with MJ going in and out the lineup, about +10 wins with him.

https://backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/84-to-90-Healthy-Bulls-SRS.png

[Axe]

MJ couldn’t fill the holes LeBron did. LeBron is the ultimate hole filler
If you're talking about carrying a team with a bunch of scrubs, then it's natural obviously. Bran has done that several times. But that doesn't translate to winning multiple chips.

[AirBonner]

If you're talking about carrying a team with a bunch of scrubs, then it's natural obviously. Bran has done that several times. But that doesn't translate winning multiple chips.

Well that’s the thing, the 2016 cavs were nothing special. LeBron filled so many holes and maintained it through the playoffs. That’s what took them to the next level

[Docs Orders]

MJ couldn’t fill the holes LeBron did. LeBron is the ultimate hole filler

:cheers:

[FKAri]

Cavs would get relegated.

[Axe]

Well that’s the thing, the 2016 cavs were nothing special. LeBron filled so many holes and maintained it through the playoffs. That’s what took them to the next level
Well, it's basically going to be regarded as the greatest comeback in finals history, without a doubt. Nothing more, nothing less.