Where Does Kyrie Rank as an Athlete?

[CTbasketball92]

It seems like he's seen as a strictly skilled player, but having watched him since high school, he seems to be very fast and very quick in the halfcourt, and he's got body control like DWade and he's pretty strong. Not sure how high he jumps, but with his touch and quickness and strength he's great at finishing any shot pretty much.

Was wondering what this board thought.

[Mamba4Life]

Worse than Pippen

[tpols]

he's quick and thats about it. cant leap, and isnt fast at all end to end. he penetrates and manuevers around by tricking people.

[AirBonner]

LeBron got Kyrie in physical peak in 2016. He just seemed bulkier. When the Celtics got him he was just more soft and fragile. He’s fast but delicate overall

[WhiteKyrie]

Worse than Pippen
Yet Pippen never scored 41 in a Finals game against an elite defense, and the opposing team’s best man defender.

Also did it as the total focus of the opposing defense in the half court.

Also never averaged 25 ppg for an entire playoff run en route to a championship.

And he definitely never averaged 27 ppg in a Finals, nor did he ever have to take the biggest testicular fortitude shots to win a series for a winless franchise in a game 7 for a championship. Jordan was the one doing that for him.



he's quick and thats about it. cant leap, and isnt fast at all end to end. he penetrates and manuevers around by tricking people.
Yet is insanely good at it. And along with KD, the best ISO scorer in the league.

Getting to the rim, best or most creative finisher of all time with either hand. And does it without the absurd leaping and finishing ability of freaks like:

Jordan, Nique, Kobe, VC, McGrady or LeBron. And he’s fearless and versatile with it scoring unlike say a Steph.

[tpols]

agreed ^^^. he's a like a longer, better shooting tony parker. who relative to athleticism, is probably the best finisher ever.

[Axe]

Yet Pippen never scored 41 in a Finals game against an elite defense, and the opposing team’s best man defender.

Also did it as the total focus of the opposing defense in the half court.

Also never averaged 25 ppg for an entire playoff run en route to a championship.

And he definitely never averaged 27 ppg in a Finals, nor did he ever have to take the biggest testicular fortitude shots to win a series for a winless franchise in a game 7 for a championship. Jordan was the one doing that for him.



Yet is insanely good at it. And along with KD, the best ISO scorer in the league.

Getting to the rim, best or most creative finisher of all time with either hand. And does it without the absurd leaping and finishing ability of freaks like:

Jordan, Nique, Kobe, VC, McGrady or LeBron. And he’s fearless and versatile with it scoring unlike say a Steph.
So scoring is basically what defines kyrie as a better player overall? Okay.

[WhiteKyrie]

So scoring is basically what defines kyrie as a better player overall? Okay.
Did I say he was a better player? I was responding to someone comparing him to Scottie’s athleticism.

And honestly given Kyrie’s strengths, especially as it related back to the holes in LeBron’s game and mentality, he was arguably a better sidekick than Scottie was to Jordan or Gasol was to Kobe.

Because his impact wasn’t that of a sidekick. It was a borderline co alpha. Same way Kobe was to Shaq in 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004.

Volume scoring, especially in the half court with shot creating and especially his clutch ability are easier to build around as a franchise center piece. And in my opinion the primary most valuable assets you could bring to a team. The rest is icing on the cake.

I don’t know who the better player is honestly. Scottie took a team motivated with the loss of their best player, and a championship pedigree to the second round as well as 55 wins.

Kyrie in 2018 before his injuries had his Celtics as a #1 seed, with rookies and role players. And if it wasn’t for season ending injury they most likely would’ve been in the Finals. And given they nearly eliminated the LeBron - Love Cavs without him, being just rookies and role players, with Kyrie they give those Warriors a better series and more competition.

[Mamba4Life]

Did I say he was a better player? I was responding to someone comparing him to Scottie’s athleticism.

And honestly given Kyrie’s strengths, especially as it related back to the holes in LeBron’s game and mentality, he was arguably a better sidekick than Scottie was to Jordan or Gasol was to Kobe.

Because his impact wasn’t that of a sidekick. It was a borderline co alpha. Same way Kobe was to Shaq in 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004.

Volume scoring, especially in the half court with shot creating and especially his clutch ability are easier to build around as a franchise center piece. And in my opinion the primary most valuable assets you could bring to a team. The rest is icing on the cake.

I don’t know who the better player is honestly. Scottie took a team motivated with the loss of their best player, and a championship pedigree to the second round as well as 55 wins.

Kyrie in 2018 before his injuries had his Celtics as a #1 seed, with rookies and role players. And if it wasn’t for season ending injury they most likely would’ve been in the Finals. And given they nearly eliminated the LeBron - Love Cavs without him, being just rookies and role players, with Kyrie they give those Warriors a better series and more competition.

Why did Celtics lose in the 2nd round with Kyrie but made the ECF without him?

[WhiteKyrie]

Why did Celtics lose in the 2nd round with Kyrie but made the ECF without him?
Chemistry and attitude issues all season long.

[Axe]

Did I say he was a better player? I was responding to someone comparing him to Scottie’s athleticism.

And honestly given Kyrie’s strengths, especially as it related back to the holes in LeBron’s game and mentality, he was arguably a better sidekick than Scottie was to Jordan or Gasol was to Kobe.

Because his impact wasn’t that of a sidekick. It was a borderline co alpha. Same way Kobe was to Shaq in 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004.

Volume scoring, especially in the half court with shot creating and especially his clutch ability are easier to build around as a franchise center piece. And in my opinion the primary most valuable assets you could bring to a team. The rest is icing on the cake.

I don’t know who the better player is honestly. Scottie took a team motivated with the loss of their best player, and a championship pedigree to the second round as well as 55 wins.

Kyrie in 2018 before his injuries had his Celtics as a #1 seed, with rookies and role players. And if it wasn’t for season ending injury they most likely would’ve been in the Finals. And given they nearly eliminated the LeBron - Love Cavs without him, being just rookies and role players, with Kyrie they give those Warriors a better series and more competition.
Kyrie never carried the cavaliers to a postseason appearance on his own alone.

[Mamba4Life]

Chemistry and attitude issues all season long.

Why did the Cavs win 51 games and make the Finals in 2017 with Kyrie, and won 50 games and made the Finals in 2018 without Kyrie?

So Kyrie was worth 1 regular season win overall for the Cavs?

[WhiteKyrie]

Kyrie never carried the cavaliers to a postseason appearance on his own alone.
I didn’t say he did. But he took the 2018 Celtics to their high seeding that helped facilitate their ability to advance in an insanely weak and talented depleted Eastern Conference.

[Axe]

I didn’t say he did. But he took the 2018 Celtics to their high seeding that helped facilitate their ability to advance in an insanely weak and talented depleted Eastern Conference.
Because he got traded to the team that was the first seed in the east, as they've won 53 games and one that they faced in the ecf 3 years ago when he was still in cleveland lmao.

[red1]

above curry.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I didn’t say he did. But he took the 2018 Celtics to their high seeding that helped facilitate their ability to advance in an insanely weak and talented depleted Eastern Conference.
He missed over 20 games in the regular season and then missed the entire playoffs. He didn't take the Celtics anywhere.

[Roundball_Rock]

I didn’t say he did. But he took the 2018 Celtics to their high seeding that helped facilitate their ability to advance in an insanely weak and talented depleted Eastern Conference.

They played better without him in 2018 and again in 2019. Then he leaves altogether and they take a jump. All this implies he was "taking" the team to lower performance (which is what his time in Brooklyn also suggests so far).

[999Guy]

Really good brakes. His pull-up and finishing game is really good for it.

Athletically he is similar to mid-10’s Curry.

[CTbasketball92]

above curry.

Yeah I'd say so. Curry's got underrated bounce/balance, but I'd give Kyrie the burst, the speed and body control edges.

I think his top end speed is seriously underrated. I'd say off hand, only someone like Westbrook, DeAaron Fox and John Wall can get down a court like this. D. Rose too even now:


https://youtu.be/VXO90_BTago?t=194


That and the ability to be in full control at that speed and contort in mid-air all play a role in his scoring ability.

[CTbasketball92]

See below. Great first step, amazing balance and body control, brakes and speed, dexterity and coordination, jump off both feet at weird angles. He absorbs contact, gets by athletic point guards and wing defenders at will. Maybe the best biomechanics in the league with LeBron.

Super underrated athlete. In the league i'd say there's below average, average, good, very good, elite, GOAT. Kyrie at that very good/fringe elite sort of level. Just missing a lot of power and explosive bounce. Steph is between average and good.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xohX0SLPFio


http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEVHAXwwwM4&t

[3ball]

the gather-step was hard-wired in since he was 7, so not as high as you might think

Robert Pack destroys him, for example.. or even Isiah Thomas

It's mostly navigational efficiency with Kyrie, not athleticism - he's like a shorter, black Luka

[Marchesk]

He's no Westbrook.

[CTbasketball92]

the gather-step was hard-wired in since he was 7, so not as high as you might think

Robert Pack destroys him, for example.. or even Isiah Thomas

It's mostly navigational efficiency with Kyrie, not athleticism - he's like a shorter, black Luka

I do think he reminds me of a Black Luka, but i think Luka's really athletic. Goodd burst, great core strength and balance/body control.

(People don't realize Isiah Thomas was super quick and had like a 40-inch vertical)

I think Kyrie is a lot faster than Luka, though and more flexible. Plus the stuff he can do in mid air, contorting his body, etc. It's just crazy (obviously he's got elite skills as well. Maneuverability is also something I've thought about to:


http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6zQb-oqQh4

[999Guy]

he's quick and thats about it. cant leap, and isnt fast at all end to end. he penetrates and manuevers around by tricking people.

Lol he is absolutely fast, pretty damn strong, has great brakes, ability to change direction.

If he was a running back he’d be like Prime Arian Foster as opposed to like AP, but that’s still a ton of athleticism.

[CTbasketball92]

Lol he is absolutely fast, pretty damn strong, has great brakes, ability to change direction.

If he was a running back he’d be like Prime Arian Foster as opposed to like AP, but that’s still a ton of athleticism.

The idea of him not being fast was always wild to me lol. He's super fast very quick and no one can start/stop and change directions while being in complete control like him, on top of that speed and strength.


https://youtu.be/5UUM14avtrY?t=86

[rplozano23]

Agreed. Check out his Boston and Utah game highlights he goes end to end rapidly and has the ability to change directions on the dime for a crossover, euro step at full speed for a layup. I wish he would dunk more often I know he has a 34 inch vertical leap and has incredible hang time which allows him to make acrobatic finishes, sometimes even switching hands in midair. I think he lacks vertical explosiveness so he doesnt dunk like a Dame Lillard on fast breaks or on the half court set. Ive seen him do it a few times in his Cleveland days.

[rplozano23]

Love it when he goes end to end full speed with with just three dribbles and a left hand finish over 7’1 Gobert. He was so fast Gobert could not even time him for a contest. Also love the euro step finish over Tatum in the fast break in the Boston game.

[Smoke117]

Clearly he's nothing particularly special as an athlete, but he's good enough with his great ball handling skill.

[tpols]

Yea its hard to classify change of pace ability... Is it skill or athleticism? Because the same moves Kyrie uses to beat guys, hesitating and juking them out is what a scat back or soccer player would do to get by somebody.

[CTbasketball92]

Yea its hard to classify change of pace ability... Is it skill or athleticism? Because the same moves Kyrie uses to beat guys, hesitating and juking them out is what a scat back or soccer player would do to get by somebody.

That's an interesting point I always think about. Luka is also great at this, though i think to a lesser extent. You've generally got to have a strong handle to do it, so someone who has good agility might not be able to master it. I think a big part of it is having great feet and that plays into agility. When you see a wide receiver make a catch and still keep their feet in bounds, or a running back make a sharp start/stop motion to reverse direction and turn back up field to get more yards, get hit by a would-be tackler, slip, put their arm down to stay up after taking contact only to speed back up a millisecond later...those are sort of the attributes I see from him in games. His ability to absorb contract while staying on balance, start/stop, cut, accelerate/decelerate, both at the same time, all remind me of a Barry Sanders or a young Mike Vick. MJ had all of these qualities too, along w. the body control and GOAT speed/bounce/quickness combo. Kai's not as fast as DeAaron Fox, Westbrook, John Wall, etc., but probably a notch below, so still fast, with those attributes I mentioned. When you compare him to Steph or someone like Steve Nash or Chauncey Billups, you see he's more dynamic in his movements, ability to get where he wants. That's a big reason why he's a great one-on-one player, in addition to being of course a great shooter.

[ShawkFactory]

He's like the Greg Maddux of basketball players.

[light]

It seems like he's seen as a strictly skilled player, but having watched him since high school, he seems to be very fast and very quick in the halfcourt, and he's got body control like DWade and he's pretty strong. Not sure how high he jumps, but with his touch and quickness and strength he's great at finishing any shot pretty much.

Was wondering what this board thought.

below average athlete.

[rplozano23]

That's an interesting point I always think about. Luka is also great at this, though i think to a lesser extent. You've generally got to have a strong handle to do it, so someone who has good agility might not be able to master it. I think a big part of it is having great feet and that plays into agility. When you see a wide receiver make a catch and still keep their feet in bounds, or a running back make a sharp start/stop motion to reverse direction and turn back up field to get more yards, get hit by a would-be tackler, slip, put their arm down to stay up after taking contact only to speed back up a millisecond later...those are sort of the attributes I see from him in games. His ability to absorb contract while staying on balance, start/stop, cut, accelerate/decelerate, both at the same time, all remind me of a Barry Sanders or a young Mike Vick. MJ had all of these qualities too, along w. the body control and GOAT speed/bounce/quickness combo. Kai's not as fast as DeAaron Fox, Westbrook, John Wall, etc., but probably a notch below, so still fast, with those attributes I mentioned. When you compare him to Steph or someone like Steve Nash or Chauncey Billups, you see he's more dynamic in his movements, ability to get where he wants. That's a big reason why he's a great one-on-one player, in addition to being of course a great shooter.

Most accurate assessement of Ky. He is so skilled if only he can add one more dimension to his game, drawing fouls to get his fta up. Not necessarily in the manner of absorbing contact, but similar to Trae Young by putting on the brakes and change of pace. He has mastered that by avoiding the defender.

Kyrie is a decent athlete he has a 34 inch vertical leap but lacks explosiveness to dunk in context and speed of an NBA game. I’ve seen him perform
some impressive dunks for his height in warmups and pick up games in you tube. I noticed he likes to jump off his right leg which allows him to finish with the left hand as well as the right. If u notice he likes to block with his left hand. Being able to jump well off both legs is a sign of a good athlete. I think he just lacks vertical explosiveness. But in terms of speed with the ball, he is as fast as anyone in the open court. Tony Parker lacked jumping ability but he was very fast with the ball. Many considered him a below average athlete but he would out speed more athletic point guards from Steve Francis to a young Westbrooke. Kyrie is easily way more athletic than Tony Parker.

[CTbasketball92]

Most accurate assessement of Ky. He is so skilled if only he can add one more dimension to his game, drawing fouls to get his fta up. Not necessarily in the manner of absorbing contact, but similar to Trae Young by putting on the brakes and change of pace. He has mastered that by avoiding the defender.

Kyrie is a decent athlete he has a 34 inch vertical leap but lacks explosiveness to dunk in context and speed of an NBA game. I’ve seen him perform
some impressive dunks for his height in warmups and pick up games in you tube. I noticed he likes to jump off his right leg which allows him to finish with the left hand as well as the right. If u notice he likes to block with his left hand. Being able to jump well off both legs is a sign of a good athlete. I think he just lacks vertical explosiveness. But in terms of speed with the ball, he is as fast as anyone in the open court. Tony Parker lacked jumping ability but he was very fast with the ball. Many considered him a below average athlete but he would out speed more athletic point guards from Steve Francis to a young Westbrooke. Kyrie is easily way more athletic than Tony Parker.


yeah agreed. I think it's just a thing with basketball where power and bounce is valued above all else. But i think kai is above average to elite at everything but leaping ability, but then there are people like DeMar Derozan or someone like Gerald Green who are only elite at jumping.