Defenses Are Worse Nowadays?

[FireDavidKahn]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXQjhMRVcAAkGQ1?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

What gives? This myth that defenses used to be so good and now suck is a myth.

[FireDavidKahn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

[Roundball_Rock]

The "Back in My Day" crowd is ignoring this? :lol

[FireDavidKahn]

The "Back in My Day" crowd is ignoring this? :lol

:roll:

They don't have an answer and will double down.

[Turbo Slayer]

Cool op.

[FireDavidKahn]

Cool op.

Education is important. No need to leave myths that are so easily busted with basic fact checking.

Want to know something else? Free throws in this era hard to come by.

The 3 fewest seasons in terms of FT/possession have been the last 3 years.

In today's league, there's an average of 23 free-throws awarded per game. 1987? THIRTY-ONE.

Harden would easily average 40+ ppg if he played in Jordan's era:cheers:

[Kblaze8855]

Being ignored doesn’t mean you’re right.

As with anything else trying to dumb down such an issue to one number there are a lot of things to factor in which obviously can’t be while keeping it so simple.

“But look at this number....” has been done on this issue for at least the last 15 years.

It always comes down to this....


Defenses are more complicated but also have to deal with a league openly modifying itself to benefit scorers.

One could argue its both easier to defend a team and harder to defend an exceptional individual. Defending a team is pretty much hoping their outside shots don’t fall but it’s damn near impossible to guard one exceptional person while also defending his teammates shooting.


All comes down to if you’re looking to evaluate teams or put players into historical perspective using their production.

The first is easier because you judge teams mostly relative to the rest of their league.

Players? All we do is individual matchups using numbers accumulated in vastly different situations.

Nobody who has watched this game for long thinks the league as it is now is harder to produce in. And that is usually where this kinda thing goes.

Its not usually about a serious discussion on changing leagues and situations. It’s about comparing this guy to that one and finding an edge.

And those arguments are usually full of people who make themselves look stupid no matter who they are trying to make look good.

Most of ish right now is just trying to lay the ground work to win arguments in other topics not just....talk ball. Which is why the same group of guys having the same argument will end up in here on opposing sides of an era argument that honesty comes down to the same 4 or so players being compared.

Long story medium(not short at this point)....


This topic might be ignored because real basketball fans know where it’s going. Not because they read it and think you made some untouchable point.

[Stanley Kobrick]

very interesting, fascinating data :cheers:

[Kblaze8855]

Education is important. No need to leave myths that are so easily busted with basic fact checking.

Want to know something else? Free throws in this era hard to come by.

The 3 fewest seasons in terms of FT/possession have been the last 3 years.

In today's league, there's an average of 23 free-throws awarded per game. 1987? THIRTY-ONE.

Harden would easily average 40+ ppg if he played in Jordan's era:cheers:



And here we arrive at the point where an argument is made that the person already knows the reason it’s invalid(three pointers) but waits for it to be said to counter with another one that’s probably easily countered.

I’d involve myself in this if it seemed like a legit call to talk ball. But that isn’t the point I don’t think.

ill leave you alone though. Need some lunch.

[r0drig0lac]

maybe, but the only thing that is certain is that the current rules make it easier for perimeter players to score compared to basketball before 2005.

[3ball]

OP's data is false

ORtg reached record highs the last 3 years - over 110 - the previous high was 108, so a massive gap

So that proves today's defenses are less effective.. and its physics - defenders must cover FAR more ground in today's spaced-out game

[Manny98]

Defenses are less physical today but way more complex due to zones and defensive strategies

[3ball]

Defenses are less physical today but way more complex due to zones and defensive strategies

You don't need a bunch of strategy when all 10 players are hanging around the paint

But if you space everyone out, now you need strategy and superior rotations to cover the extra ground smartly

[SATAN]

Going into the paint for a lay up back then was like the hopping into the ring mid WWF Royal Rumble. At least that's what the MJ stans who haven't watched basketball in the last 20 years tell me anyway.

[3ball]

Going into the paint for a lay up back then was like the hopping into the ring mid WWF Royal Rumble. At least that's what the MJ stans who haven't watched basketball in the last 20 years tell me anyway.

So true

[3ball]

Going into the paint for a lay up back then was like the hopping into the ring mid WWF Royal Rumble. At least that's what the MJ stans who haven't watched basketball in the last 20 years tell me anyway.


Paints in previous eras were normally too packed for dribble penetration to even be POSSIBLE - you can't run through defenders:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ozo2gsUnmBUtTd6/giphy.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-17-2015/dzzsgE.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-23-2015/bZE6Lj.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-13-2015/kZeK3Z.gif


That's why every good scorer back then had good mid-range to shoot over the packed paints

Otoh, nearly half of Giannis' drives had no help defender due to spacing, according to ESPN:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9jtOOQ43yw4&t=05m42s


Btw, this is the same reason Lebron wouldn't be nearly as good on previous eras (no teamnates spacing the floor to benefit his penetration/ball-domination[/B]

[warriorfan]

Paints in previous eras were normally too packed for dribble penetration to even be POSSIBLE - you can't run through defenders:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ozo2gsUnmBUtTd6/giphy.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-17-2015/dzzsgE.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-23-2015/bZE6Lj.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-13-2015/kZeK3Z.gif


That's why every good scorer back then had good mid-range to shoot over the packed paints

Otoh, nearly half of Giannis' drives had no help defender due to spacing, according to ESPN:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9jtOOQ43yw4&t=05m42s


Btw, this is the same reason Lebron wouldn't be nearly as good on previous eras (no teamnates spacing the floor to benefit his penetration/ball-domination[/B]

A stiff arm into a paint of 3 plus defenders at the rim...It would not be pretty. LeBron has always struggled vs strong rim protection. The 90’s era would be a nightmare for him.

[SATAN]

:lol Look at those stiffs. LeBron would have been shooting 40 free throws per night if given the MJ treatment from refs.

[3ball]

:lol Look at those stiffs. LeBron would have been shooting 40 free throws per night if given the MJ treatment from refs.

MJ's frame was optimal for sliding between cluttered defenders, and he still needed to shoot over packed paints

So lebron's lumbering frame would be in no man's land without a jumpshot to shoot over the defense

[SATAN]

Meh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuoJ_ipNS-8

[3ball]

Meh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuoJ_ipNS-8

^^^ that's a one-off for lebron, but the standard for MJ

Lebron can't live off his jumper, while MJ did... This caused defenses to adjust to him more, and ultimately wore the opponent down

[SATAN]

Meh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcYzVlLbHig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd4pq-MHoCI

[3ball]

Meh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcYzVlLbHig

Congrats you know what a one-off is

Ultimately, MJ made way more jumpers on better efficiency - in 1997, he made over 700 jumpers (250 more than Curry and lebron's highest volume season) at better efficiency than lebron's.most efficient season

[SATAN]

Meh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_VRySsuR9E

[3ball]

Meh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_VRySsuR9E

None in the Finals

No series walk-offs

So nothing important - all lower leverage winners

And of course weaker clutch stats overall - down the stretch of tight games (last 5 within 5), lebron shoots 41% on 3.0 attempts for his playoff career, versus 47% on 3.6 attempts for old MJ in 97' and 98'... That's 20% more clutch attempts on better efficiency

[SATAN]

In case you didn't notice, I don't take anything you say seriously nor barely read anything you say. Carry on though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UhLPhegA2E

[SATAN]

https://33.media.tumblr.com/d1ee231f292a5ed7c9665c92c3560718/tumblr_n5ztqgaoMm1svefdfo1_400.gif