Where do you rank Jeff Hornacek all time?

[FultzNationRISE]

This was MJ’s primary arch-nemesis in the latter half of the 90s. Where do you rank him all time?


Serious discussion only, please.

[SATAN]

Top 500.

[Mamba4Life]

3rd best auto mechanic I ever visited tbh...

[LAmbruh]

:roll:

[Kblaze8855]

https://youtu.be/b9uzQSMcJjQ

[Reggie43]

Insanely smart all around player with a goat level shooting stroke. Single season peak numbers of 20ppg 5rb 5apg with 2 spg on .512 .439 .886 which is comparable to Klay's numbers but with significantly better percentages and better all around stats.

[warriorfan]

He was actually a great player. He could score, defend, and pass. He has some amazing advanced impact stats. If you want to use white wings to disparage an era then I’ll let you know Luka is ****ing up your whole agenda big time.

[SATAN]

...

[Reggie43]

Saw him play out of his prime for the Jazz but was always in awe with the way he played on both ends and having the same basketball iq of an all time great like Stockton.

[DoctorP]

dumb people will laugh at this guy now just like dumb people will laugh at jokic in 20 years

[tontoz]

He was a good player. I wouldnt call him great though. Versatile scorer with good efficency.

He wasnt guarding Jordan much in the finals though. Bryon Russell was Jordans primary defender, as evidenced by Jordans last shot in a Bulls uni.

[Goldrush25]

He was actually a great player. He could score, defend, and pass. He has some amazing advanced impact stats. If you want to use white wings to disparage an era then I’ll let you know Luka is ****ing up your whole agenda big time.

Luka at 21 years old is twice the player than Hornacek ever was.

[Roundball_Rock]

He wasnt guarding Jordan much in the finals though. Bryon Russell was Jordans primary defender, as evidenced by Jordans last shot in a Bulls uni.

True but Jordan guarded Hornacek and Hornacek was the Jazz's second option.

Hornacek was a top 10 SG in his prime but by his Utah days he was old and scoring 14-15 PPG.

[SATAN]

warriorfan is not very smart. Go easy on him. He thinks Luka Doncic also played in the 90s.

[MrFonzworth]

Hornacek rounds out my top 10.

[Norcaliblunt]

Wish the Suns could’ve kept him in the Barkley trade.

[scuzzy]

Abby doe




https://i.postimg.cc/vHxXFRzx/fgjkghkgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/Vkygz7GG/fvjfgjkgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/CKS4qRVb/ghkfgkgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/GpKxJbcV/jghjkgjkgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/CxjN5j9F/lhjklkghk.png (https://postimages.org/)

[tontoz]

^^ He makes my top 10 now lol.

[SATAN]

https://i.postimg.cc/CxjN5j9F/lhjklkghk.png (https://postimages.org/)

https://mrbasketballblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/2276907_o.gif

[scuzzy]

https://mrbasketballblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/2276907_o.gif
:roll:

[DoctorP]

Abby doe




https://i.postimg.cc/vHxXFRzx/fgjkghkgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/Vkygz7GG/fvjfgjkgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/CKS4qRVb/ghkfgkgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/GpKxJbcV/jghjkgjkgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/CxjN5j9F/lhjklkghk.png (https://postimages.org/)

GOAT sperm

[LeCroix]

True but Jordan guarded Hornacek and Hornacek was the Jazz's second option.

Hornacek was a top 10 SG in his prime but by his Utah days he was old and scoring 14-15 PPG.

I heard Jeff produced low points in the Finals. Some such tales have produced 10.4 ppg as Jazz #2 highest scoring member

[Docs Orders]

https://mrbasketballblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/2276907_o.gif

https://mrbasketballblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/2276907_o.gif

[lakers_forever]

This was MJ’s primary arch-nemesis in the latter half of the 90s. Where do you rank him all time?


Serious discussion only, please. Easily better than Draymond Green.

[SATAN]

https://33.media.tumblr.com/d1ee231f292a5ed7c9665c92c3560718/tumblr_n5ztqgaoMm1svefdfo1_400.gif

[Roundball_Rock]

I heard Jeff produced low points in the Finals. Some such tales have produced 10.4 ppg as Jazz #2 highest scoring member

An obvious tell is when you hear people talk about one team but omit the info for the opposing team. You will notice that 3ball will never share a single stat about the opposition, for example...

Yup, 1998 NBA finals supporting casts:

Utah: Hornacek 10.7, Stockton 9.7, Russell 8.8
Chicago: Pippen 15.7, Kukoc 15.2, Harper 5.3

Pippen was at 20 PPG the first four games (CHI 3-1) along with historic defensive dominance before he got hurt in the series. Keep in mind MJ took 7.5 FGA per game than Malone, and yet Hornacek and Stockton still couldn't score.

1997 NBA finals:

Utah: Stockton 15.0, Hornacek 12.0, Russell 11.0
Chicago: Pippen 20.0, Kukoc 8.0, Dele 6.8

Keep in mind MJ took 6 more FGA per game than Utah's #1 option in the series so there wasn't much left for anyone not named MJ or Pippen. Kukoc got only 37 shots in 6 games, for instance.

[jstern]

I remember a few months ago Barkley talking about how stacked his team or some team was, mentioning Jeff Hornacek as one of the players. He was a very good player. I would say top 125.

[Smoke117]

Jeff Hornacek could ball. He was a weak athlete, but a very clever player. Pretty much a skill based player. If he had Gordon Hayward athleticism (before injury) he would have been a many time all star.

[Roundball_Rock]

Abby doe




https://i.postimg.cc/vHxXFRzx/fgjkghkgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/Vkygz7GG/fvjfgjkgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/CKS4qRVb/ghkfgkgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/GpKxJbcV/jghjkgjkgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/CxjN5j9F/lhjklkghk.png (https://postimages.org/)

How did you find out about that? Easily Hornacek's greatest assist! :lol

[scuzzy]

How did you find out about that? Easily Hornacek's greatest assist! :lol
she's a tv sports anchor and does low key college stuff now

[HoopsNY]

Hornacek played solid defense in addition to his great shooting ability. Anyone who watched him guard Clyde Drexler, a young and superior athletic player in Eddie Jones and Kobe Bryant saw this.

[Vino24]

In today’s league he might be a 3rd string pg on a lottery team

[HoopsNY]

In today’s league he might be a 3rd string pg on a lottery team

Doubt it.

[Docs Orders]

a spot up shooter with awful defense


a poor mans Kyle Korver


he got a roster spot in the 90's because he was one of the rare players that could hit a 3, like Mark Price and other auto mechanics scouted from your local Y

[HoopsNY]

a spot up shooter with awful defense


a poor mans Kyle Korver


he got a roster spot in the 90's because he was one of the rare players that could hit a 3, like Mark Price and other auto mechanics scouted from your local Y

What makes you say he had awful defense?

[SATAN]

To be fair, as others have said, he was a good player. Just impossible to rank in any meaningful way.

[Docs Orders]

What makes you say he had awful defense?

https://33.media.tumblr.com/d1ee231f292a5ed7c9665c92c3560718/tumblr_n5ztqgaoMm1svefdfo1_400.gif

[LeCroix]

https://33.media.tumblr.com/d1ee231f292a5ed7c9665c92c3560718/tumblr_n5ztqgaoMm1svefdfo1_400.gif

Proof in the pudding

[HoopsNY]

https://33.media.tumblr.com/d1ee231f292a5ed7c9665c92c3560718/tumblr_n5ztqgaoMm1svefdfo1_400.gif

Right, but that's Michael Jordan. Did you watch him defend Drexler and Eddie Jones in the playoffs?

[SATAN]

There's a gif of Starks doing exactly the same thing to him. Might have been a spotted weakness that guards attacked. I don't remember Jeff being unusually bad at d back in the day though.

[HoopsNY]

There's a gif of Starks doing exactly the same thing to him. Might have been a spotted weakness that guards attacked. I don't remember Jeff being unusually bad at d back in the day though.

He wasn't. He was actually a good defender for much of his career.

[Reggie43]

He played good positional defense and was physical enough to annoy the person he was guarding. Really liked those Jazz teams because they played as a unit on both ends and was one of the most fundamentally sound teams of all time. Considering their age and personell they beat hyper athletic teams like it was nothing.

[86Celtics]

a spot up shooter with awful defense


a poor mans Kyle Korver


he got a roster spot in the 90's because he was one of the rare players that could hit a 3, like Mark Price and other auto mechanics scouted from your local Y

What makes you say he had awful defense?

Why do you take this moron seriously? All he does is troll.

[Whoah10115]

https://33.media.tumblr.com/d1ee231f292a5ed7c9665c92c3560718/tumblr_n5ztqgaoMm1svefdfo1_400.gif

I like that this isn't about how good Jordan is, but about how white is Horancek.

[HoopsNY]

Why do you take this moron seriously? All he does is troll.

You'll have to forgive me. I'm new to the forum.

[RogueBorg]

This was MJ’s primary arch-nemesis in the latter half of the 90s. Where do you rank him all time?


Serious discussion only, please.

Byron Russell

[LeCroix]

An obvious tell is when you hear people talk about one team but omit the info for the opposing team. You will notice that 3ball will never share a single stat about the opposition, for example...

Yup, 1998 NBA finals supporting casts:

Utah: Hornacek 10.7, Stockton 9.7, Russell 8.8
Chicago: Pippen 15.7, Kukoc 15.2, Harper 5.3

Pippen was at 20 PPG the first four games (CHI 3-1) along with historic defensive dominance before he got hurt in the series. Keep in mind MJ took 7.5 FGA per game than Malone, and yet Hornacek and Stockton still couldn't score.

1997 NBA finals:

Utah: Stockton 15.0, Hornacek 12.0, Russell 11.0
Chicago: Pippen 20.0, Kukoc 8.0, Dele 6.8

Keep in mind MJ took 6 more FGA per game than Utah's #1 option in the series so there wasn't much left for anyone not named MJ or Pippen. Kukoc got only 37 shots in 6 games, for instance.

wow 15 ppg and 10.7 ppg as #2 options seems v low, could be lowest ever with 10.7 so low


https://i.ibb.co/hFdQvFx/gamble-goat.png

[kkb_12]

Jeff Hornacek is slightly above Jason Terry


This was MJ’s primary arch-nemesis in the latter half of the 90s. Where do you rank him all time?


Serious discussion only, please.

[LeCroix]

Jeff Hornacek is slightly above Jason Terry

Terry did 10 points in the Finals series too? Like 98 Finals Jeff? LINK ME

[red1]

lebron would put up 30 on hornacek every night no problem




I see where you're going OP. great thread, 5 stars. :applause:

[Smoke117]

lebron would put up 30 on hornacek every night no problem




I see where you're going OP. great thread, 5 stars. :applause:
You don’t know what the **** you are talking about . Hornacek was 20 5 5 in his *** player in his prime shit heel. He was playing bone on bone with two ****ed knees during the bulls series you stupid ****.

[red1]

You don’t know what the **** you are talking about . Hornacek was 20 5 5 in his *** player in his prime shit heel. He was playing bone on bone with two ****ed knees during the bulls series you stupid ****.
:oldlol:

relax kid. the point went over your head completely.


the point is that jordan is a bald fakkit.

[Roundball_Rock]

wow 15 ppg and 10.7 ppg as #2 options seems v low, could be lowest ever with 10.7 so low

That is one reason why the "MJ had lowest scoring casts" is misleading. Scoring was low at that point. The Jazz had one game in that series where the entire team scored 54 points (yes, 54...). Their second leading scorer had 8 points. https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199806070CHI.html

[Axe]

An obvious tell is when you hear people talk about one team but omit the info for the opposing team. You will notice that 3ball will never share a single stat about the opposition, for example...

Yup, 1998 NBA finals supporting casts:

Utah: Hornacek 10.7, Stockton 9.7, Russell 8.8
Chicago: Pippen 15.7, Kukoc 15.2, Harper 5.3

Pippen was at 20 PPG the first four games (CHI 3-1) along with historic defensive dominance before he got hurt in the series. Keep in mind MJ took 7.5 FGA per game than Malone, and yet Hornacek and Stockton still couldn't score.

1997 NBA finals:

Utah: Stockton 15.0, Hornacek 12.0, Russell 11.0
Chicago: Pippen 20.0, Kukoc 8.0, Dele 6.8

Keep in mind MJ took 6 more FGA per game than Utah's #1 option in the series so there wasn't much left for anyone not named MJ or Pippen. Kukoc got only 37 shots in 6 games, for instance.
Really? That's pretty ironic for you to say and mention, considering how you omitted talking about some other things related to the matchup, like the jazz being favored due to the homecourt advantage virtue of 2-0 sweep in regular season and the bulls execution of their impressive defense upon them (or so it seemed); hence, the reason why the jazz slumped to scoring only 54 points during game 3 of that finals series.

Also, yes pip does a great job on his defense but that doesn't mean that you should make it sound like he's the sheer driving force of their defense alone.

[Xiao Yao You]

lebron would put up 30 on hornacek every night no problem




I see where you're going OP. great thread, 5 stars. :applause:

Lebron averages 30 for his career. Horny keeping him to his average would be great!

[tpols]

Jordan > Malone
Stockton > Pippen
Hornacek > rodman

depth is similar.

MJ was the difference.

[kkb_12]

Terry did 10 points in the Finals series too? Like 98 Finals Jeff? LINK ME

One game, series or even season does not make player. Lebron as one of the top three players ever, had final games with 12 points on 2 of 18 shooting...

For Terry vs. Hornacek comparison:

SLAM top 500 all time from 2011 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html)


265. Jeff Hornacek
.
.
.
380. Jason Terry

[red1]

Lebron averages 30 for his career. Horny keeping him to his average would be great!

:oldlol:

[warriorfan]

LBJ has gotten shook in the finals by Steph Curry and JJ Barea. Hornacek would eat him alive.

[red1]

LBJ has gotten shook in the finals by Steph Curry and JJ Barea. Hornacek would eat him alive.

we're trolling 3ball - you should try it. he probably rates curry even lower than we do.

[3ball]

Peak Hornacek was a better scorer and playmaker than Pippen ever was

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan > Malone
Stockton > Pippen
Hornacek > rodman

depth is similar.

MJ was the difference.

Fact check:

1998

Stockton 10/3/9
Utah's second leading scorer 10.7 PPG (Stockton 9.7). Stockton "leads" his offense to 54 points in a game.

Bulls get 16/7/5 and elite defense from Pippen (better stats during Chicago's 3-1 lead pre-injury) who plays a "roving linebacker in high tops" role as the New York Times put it. Kukoc 15/5/3. Rodman defends Malone, Harper Stockton.

1997

Stockton 15/4/9

Hornacek only 12 PPG.

Pippen 20/8/4 with 2 blocks and 2 steals with the usual elite D.
Malone 24/10/4 with 2 steals and 0 blocks.

Rodman the reason Malone underperforms big in 97'. Harper defends Stockton.

But...it was all MJ and he somehow got less help? :biggums:

[MoneyMitch23]

Dude was a monster. Wet ass jumper.

[LAmbruh]

Fact check:

1998

Stockton 10/3/9
Utah's second leading scorer 10.7 PPG (Stockton 9.7). Stockton "leads" his offense to 54 points in a game.

Bulls get 16/7/5 and elite defense from Pippen (better stats during Chicago's 3-1 lead pre-injury) who plays a "roving linebacker in high tops" role as the New York Times put it. Kukoc 15/5/3. Rodman defends Malone, Harper Stockton.

1997

Stockton 15/4/9

Hornacek only 12 PPG.

Pippen 20/8/4 with 2 blocks and 2 steals with the usual elite D.
Malone 24/10/4 with 2 steals and 0 blocks.

Rodman the reason Malone underperforms big in 97'. Harper defends Stockton.

But...it was all MJ and he somehow got less help? :biggums:
100% :applause:

[3ball]

Fact check:

1998

Stockton 10/3/9
Utah's second leading scorer 10.7 PPG (Stockton 9.7). Stockton "leads" his offense to 54 points in a game.

Bulls get 16/7/5 and elite defense from Pippen (better stats during Chicago's 3-1 lead pre-injury) who plays a "roving linebacker in high tops" role as the New York Times put it. Kukoc 15/5/3. Rodman defends Malone, Harper Stockton.

1997

Stockton 15/4/9

Hornacek only 12 PPG.

Pippen 20/8/4 with 2 blocks and 2 steals with the usual elite D.
Malone 24/10/4 with 2 steals and 0 blocks.

Rodman the reason Malone underperforms big in 97'. Harper defends Stockton.

But...it was all MJ and he somehow got less help? :biggums:

The Bulls "supporting cast" was outscored in many Finals actually. Looking at double figure scorers outside of the top player for each team:

91 Finals (minus Jordan's 31.2 ppg)
Pippen: 20.8 ppg
Grant: 14.6 ppg
Paxson: 13.4 ppg

Lakers (minus Magic)
Divac: 18.2 ppg
Worthy: 19.3 ppg
Perkins: 16.6 ppg

Advantage: Lakers

92 Finals (minus Jordan's 35.8 ppg)
Pippen: 20.8 ppg
Paxson: 10.3 ppg
Grant: 9.2 ppg
Cartwright: 6.3 ppg

Blazers (minus Drexler)
Porter: 16.2 ppg
Kersey: 14.8 ppg
Robinson: 10.3 ppg
Ainge: 10 ppg

Advantage: Blazers (though its a bit closer here)

1993 Finals (minus Jordan's whopping 41 ppg)
Pippen: 21.2 ppg
Armstrong: 13.5 ppg
Grant: 11.2 ppg

Suns (minus Barkley)
K. Johnson: 17.2 ppg
Majerle: 17.2 ppg
Dumas: 15.8 ppg

Advantage: Suns

1996 Finals (minus Jordan's 27.3 ppg)
Pippen: 15.7 ppg
Kukoc: 13 ppg
Longley: 11.7 ppg

Sonics (minus Kemp)
Payton: 18 ppg
Schrempf: 16.3 ppg
Hawkins: 13.3 ppg

Advantage: Sonics

1997 Finals (minus Jordan's 32.3 ppg)
Pippen: 20 ppg
Kukoc: 8 ppg
Bison Dele: 6.8 ppg

Jazz (minus Malone)
Stockton: 15 ppg
Hornacek: 12 ppg
Russell: 11.3 ppg

Advantage: Jazz

1998 Finals (minus Jordan's 33.5 ppg)
Pippen: 15.7 ppg
Kukoc: 15.2 ppg
Harper: 5.3 ppg

Jazz (minus Malone)
Hornacek: 10.7 ppg
Stockton: 9.7 ppg
Russell: 8.8 ppg

Advantage: Bulls, largely on Kukoc having a good series but keep in mind Pippen basically was crippled by game 6 with a back injury.


The main takeaway I see is the Bulls were top heavy, and other teams actually had better overall depth scoring a lot of the time, the Bulls were especially weak with a 3rd scoring option.

Overall the premise that Jordan had far more help versus his opponents doesn't really fly unless you believe basketball is a 2-on-2 sport. Jordan was simply way better than the top players on the other teams, the Bulls players no.2-no.10 weren't necessarily better than many teams

[3ball]

.
Title teams with lowest scoring supporting casts for the overall playoffs

Post-1954 (Shot Clock Era)


10. 1994 Rockets - 68.3 PPG
9. 2006 Heat - 67.8 PPG
8. 1993 Bulls - 67.3 PPG
7. 2012 Heat - 67.0 PPG
6. 1996 Bulls - 66.7 PPG
5. 1992 Bulls - 65.9 PPG
4. 2004 Pistons - 65.6 PPG
3. 1999 Spurs - 65.2 PPG
2. 1997 Bulls - 61.5 PPG
1. 1998 Bulls - 60.8 PPG


^^^ the bulls' lowest-scoring casts required MJ to have the goat volume/efficiency combination - he's the only efficient, high volume player in history.

And every ECF and Finals opponent had a better defense during the 1st three-peat except the Suns' #9 defense

[Nowoco]

So Hornacek sucked and that Jazz team was old and rubbish?

Wow Kobe and Shaq's Lakers and the twin tower Spurs must have been some of the worst teams of all time to get beaten by them so comprehensively :biggums:

[r0drig0lac]

So Hornacek sucked and that Jazz team was old and rubbish?

Wow Kobe and Shaq's Lakers and the twin tower Spurs must have been some of the worst teams of all time to get beaten by them so comprehensively :biggums:

relax, trolling here is the norm, in the kingdom it's even worse, because the guys talk the same bs, but with an air of superiority.

[HoopsNY]

solid defense>then why didnt try to stop jordan ever!jeff is non athletic white boy you cant do nothing!shut up!

"Shut up"? How old is the average poster on this forum, really?