As a non-scorer LeBron is 3rd all time in points

[Vino24]

Only 4K back from Kareem with a real shot of passing him. Pretty good for a non-scorer :biggums:

[LostCause]

So then how is he a non-scorer? :biggums:

[Vino24]

So then how is he a non-scorer? :biggums:

Kobestans say he is not a scorer

[LeCroix]

and whatever you do

do not google playoff points

[Docs Orders]

and whatever you do

do not google playoff points

just did, and it's showing 6911






https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEjHCWdU7F4hkcudy/giphy.gif

[Soundwave]

Kobestans say he is not a scorer

He's a good scorer, but no one where near the top NBA 1-on-1 players. Durant is a better scorer than he is, so is Kobe, so is Shaq, so is Wilt, so is Jordan.

Longevity doesn't make you a better scorer, it's admirable as a side trait but that's about it.

[DoctorP]

yeah hes done well for himself

[RRR3]

He's a good scorer, but no one where near the top NBA 1-on-1 players. Durant is a better scorer than he is, so is Kobe, so is Shaq, so is Wilt, so is Jordan.

Longevity doesn't make you a better scorer, it's admirable as a side trait but that's about it.
Playoff numbers would indicate he's a better scorer than Kobe or Wilt...

[Soundwave]

Playoff numbers would indicate he's a better scorer than Kobe or Wilt...

Wilt voluntarily took less shots as his career went on, I don't think you're going to convince anyway he's a better scorer than Wilt.

Kobe is a better 1-on-1 player I think most people acknowledge that too.

Kobe Bryant scored 81 points in a modern NBA game, that is unbelievable, you may not see that broken for another 40-50 years.

[RRR3]

Wilt voluntarily took less shots as his career went on, I don't think you're going to convince anyway he's a better scorer than Wilt.

Kobe is a better 1-on-1 player I think most people acknowledge that too.

Kobe Bryant scored 81 points in a modern NBA game, that is unbelievable, you may not see that broken for another 40-50 years.
The most points per 36 Wilt ever scored in the playoffs was 27.7 and he did that on a poor 49.2 TS%. LeBron has had 3 playoff runs scoring at a higher clip per 36, and he was much more efficient in each of them. Additionally, wasn't the pace higher in the 60's? It certainly was higher than it was in 2008-09, in which LeBron averaged 30.7 points per 36 minutes in the playoffs, while putting up a terrific 61.8 TS%. LeBron's playoff career high is higher than Kobe's (by one point to be fair lol), and he has more 30 and 40 point playoff point games. In fact LeBron had more 40 point finals games in a span of 3 days in 2016 than Kobe did in his entire career. LBJ has consistently scored better than Kobe in the finals after his first two horrible finals. Them's the facts.

[ncrizzle]

TIL bron is not a scorer

[Vino24]

King James

[HoopsNY]

The most points per 36 Wilt ever scored in the playoffs was 27.7 and he did that on a poor 49.2 TS%. LeBron has had 3 playoff runs scoring at a higher clip per 36, and he was much more efficient in each of them. Additionally, wasn't the pace higher in the 60's? It certainly was higher than it was in 2008-09, in which LeBron averaged 30.7 points per 36 minutes in the playoffs, while putting up a terrific 61.8 TS%. LeBron's playoff career high is higher than Kobe's (by one point to be fair lol), and he has more 30 and 40 point playoff point games. In fact LeBron had more 40 point finals games in a span of 3 days in 2016 than Kobe did in his entire career. LBJ has consistently scored better than Kobe in the finals after his first two horrible finals. Them's the facts.

Playoffs PPG per 36 minutes is really a useless statistic seeing that most great players play 40+ minutes a game in the playoffs. And Wilt's durability in the playoffs should be to his credit, not his detriment.

[HoopsNY]

Not sure how the OP arrived at this conclusion. LeBron has always been the #1 option on every team he's played on, with the exception of this past season, which hasn't seen its completion. He's as much of a scorer as anyone else in terms of role.

[Soundwave]

The most points per 36 Wilt ever scored in the playoffs was 27.7 and he did that on a poor 49.2 TS%. LeBron has had 3 playoff runs scoring at a higher clip per 36, and he was much more efficient in each of them. Additionally, wasn't the pace higher in the 60's? It certainly was higher than it was in 2008-09, in which LeBron averaged 30.7 points per 36 minutes in the playoffs, while putting up a terrific 61.8 TS%. LeBron's playoff career high is higher than Kobe's (by one point to be fair lol), and he has more 30 and 40 point playoff point games. In fact LeBron had more 40 point finals games in a span of 3 days in 2016 than Kobe did in his entire career. LBJ has consistently scored better than Kobe in the finals after his first two horrible finals. Them's the facts.

Kobe's playoff numbers are a bit skewed because he wasn't allowed to be the no.1 scoring option due to Shaq being on his team in the first half of his playoff career. LeBron pretty much got to be the no.1 option everywhere he went.

As the defacto no.1 playoff option in later years Kobe's scoring average is more like 29 ppg, which is higher than LeBron's.

[LeCroix]

just did, and it's showing 6911






https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEjHCWdU7F4hkcudy/giphy.gif

could it be he is #1 all time? I thought jorden had the records? am i mistaken>?

[Roundball_Rock]

Kobe's playoff numbers are a bit skewed because he wasn't allowed to be the no.1 scoring option due to Shaq being on his team in the first half of his playoff career.

I hear that a lot but always find it funny. So Kobe is the second or third GOAT and he was the second option or lower for the better part of a decade? :biggums: Even if we accept what some others say, that Kobe isn't second or third all-time overall but is second or third all-time as a scorer, the same problem exists.


Not sure how the OP arrived at this conclusion

Kobe stans say LeBron isn't a great scorer often, that appears to be what motivated the OP.


I thought jorden had the records? am i mistaken>?

That certainly is the perception. The funny thing is the one major statistical category he was elite in is scoring and he is 5th there. We also often hear the media act like 6 rings or 5 MVP's are records. They don't explicitly say it but it is implied by saying stuff like "matching Jordan's 6 rings" or "catching Jordan in MVP's". Kareem has the real MVP record (6) and Russell rings (11).

MJ is #1 in career PPG but only because he kept retiring. The difference is 0.05. if MJ played in 99' or 04' Wilt would nose ahead.

[jstern]

Lebron has two things going for him. Longevity, and a continuous weakening of the defensive rules against perimeter players that had so many players scoring 50+ points a couple of years ago, that people stopped making a big fuzz about them.

[HoopsNY]

I hear that a lot but always find it funny. So Kobe is the second or third GOAT and he was the second option or lower for the better part of a decade? :biggums: Even if we accept what some others say, that Kobe isn't second or third all-time overall but is second or third all-time as a scorer, the same problem exists.



Kobe stans say LeBron isn't a great scorer often, that appears to be what motivated the OP.



That certainly is the perception. The funny thing is the one major statistical category he was elite in is scoring and he is 5th there. We also often hear the media act like 6 rings or 5 MVP's are records. They don't explicitly say it but it is implied by saying stuff like "matching Jordan's 6 rings" or "catching Jordan in MVP's". Kareem has the real MVP record (6) and Russell rings (11).

MJ is #1 in career PPG but only because he kept retiring. The difference is 0.05. if MJ played in 99' or 04' Wilt would nose ahead.

Perhaps, but Jordan averaged 32.6 ppg in 1992-93. If he plays the next two seasons, he likely averages similar, which would actually increase his overall ppg. And if he does play those two seasons, it's highly unlikely he returns in the Washington years. So if anything, his original ppg with Chicago (31.5), would likely go up, not down.

In addition, if he returns in 1998-99, then even more of a reason for him not to return in the Washington years, and he probably averages close to 28 ppg then, which again wouldn't really make his ppg drop, especially with the additional 2 years between 1993-1995.

[LeCroix]

Perhaps, but Jordan averaged 32.6 ppg in 1992-93. If he plays the next two seasons, he likely averages similar, which would actually increase his overall ppg. And if he does play those two seasons, it's highly unlikely he returns in the Washington years. So if anything, his original ppg with Chicago (31.5), would likely go up, not down.

In addition, if he returns in 1998-99, then even more of a reason for him not to return in the Washington years, and he probably averages close to 28 ppg then, which again wouldn't really make his ppg drop, especially with the additional 2 years between 1993-1995.

Why does lebeon have 900 more pts on playoffs when mj has equal playoff showings of 13 to 13.

[HoopsNY]

Why does lebeon have 900 more pts on playoffs when mj has equal playoff showings of 13 to 13.

Because he's played in more games.

[LeCroix]

Because he's played in more games.

but he made 9 finals to 6?

[Roundball_Rock]

The point is MJ did not have a normal career arc because of the three retirements. The 99' and 03' stuff are important because we often hear MJ is #1 in career PPG. He is but because of the retirements.


Jordan averaged 32.6 ppg in 1992-93. If he plays the next two seasons, he likely averages similar, which would actually increase his overall ppg

32.6 was the highest of his career after 90' so unlikely we would see that again. Look at his career averages at various points:

From 85'-91': 32.6
From 85'-93': 32.3
From 85'-98': 31.5
From 85'-03': 30.1

As you can see, the two lowest years changed the average a lot more than the additional 30 or so PPG seasons.

What did the last two years do for other players?

Wilt career: 30.1
Wilt minus last two seasons: 33.1

Kareem career: 24.6
Kareem minus last two seasons: 25.9

Kobe career: 25.0
Kobe minus last two seasons: 25.5

Kobe has a smaller change because he played only 101 games his final two seasons.

West career: 27.0
West minus last two seasons: 27.6

[Bronbron23]

Only 4K back from Kareem with a real shot of passing him. Pretty good for a non-scorer :biggums:

Stop trolling dude. You'd have to be a tard if you actually think lebron is a non scorer. Hes a always been primarily a scorer. He only gets about 7 assists a game. 5hats only like 1.5 more a game then mj btw. I dont even think thats top 20 all time. Plenty of players in the history of the game were better passers. Not that many have been better scorers.

[LostCause]

The point is MJ did not have a normal career arc because of the three retirements. The 99' and 03' stuff are important because we often hear MJ is #1 in career PPG. He is but because of the retirements.



32.6 was the highest of his career after 90' so unlikely we would see that again. Look at his career averages at various points:

From 85'-91': 32.6
From 85'-93': 32.3
From 85'-98': 31.5
From 85'-03': 30.1

As you can see, the two lowest years changed the average a lot more than the additional 30 or so PPG seasons.

What did the last two years do for other players?

Wilt career: 30.1
Wilt minus last two seasons: 33.1

Kareem career: 24.6
Kareem minus last two seasons: 25.9

Kobe career: 25.0
Kobe minus last two seasons: 25.5

Kobe has a smaller change because he played only 101 games his final two seasons.

West career: 27.0
West minus last two seasons: 27.6


Did your brain stop working halfway through working this out? We've already been over this:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?476510-ESPN-Michael-Jordan-documentary-The-Last-Dance-Official-Discussion-Thread&p=13979381&viewfull=1#post13979381

Simply by making evidence-based assumptions for his full 94 season and a complete 95 season, it moves Jordans career totals to 36,636 points. 79 games for both seasons is a fair estimate as well, bringing his total games to 1213. Those new numbers alone make his career ppg average 30.20 instead of 30.12. Removing the Wizards years and replacing them with 2-3 years following 98 would make his drop-off from what his numbers were had he never returned after 98 fall off less (While also making him very likely the all time leader in points as well as other career totals). His decline probably never reaches as drastic a point as it did in Washington if he doesn't take 3 years off

Of course this silly what-if scenario ignores injuries, lockout, tons of other factors so your entire premise here is pretty moronic and you either didn't try to or just can't think it through

Again, this is a 3-ball level argument

[3ball]

.

NBA.com... 94% of Lebron's shots outside of 10 feet are either "open" (4-6 feet from closest defender) or "wide open" (6+ feet), compared to 77.1% (https://stats.nba.com/player/201935/shots-dash/) for Harden, 82.0% (https://stats.nba.com/player/203078/shots-dash/) for Bradley Beal, 77.8% (https://stats.nba.com/player/202695/shots-dash/) for Kawhi, and 66.6% (https://stats.nba.com/player/201142/shots-dash/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) for KDGoat (in 2019).


^^^ the stats show lebron doesn't take contested jumpers/close and therefore needs a sidekick that can, aka Wade and Kyrie... Otoh, guys like KD/Kawhi/Kobe are like kyrie and Wade as contested shot-makers/closers, and therefore superior to lebron (who avoids contested jumpers, aka clutch-time shots)

[DoctorP]

yeah hes done well for himself

lebron is better as a second scorer, but usually, noone is better so lebron....even as optimally a beta as it gets is dope.
because he is that good that he cannot be beta'd

[deathawaitu]

1st in turnover all time for someone who has poor dibbing and passing