How Great Was 1980's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar?

[Roundball_Rock]

One of the misconceptions about Kareem is his level of play in the 1980's. There is a tendency by some to view him as a 70's legend who was just along for the 80's ride. His resume tells a different story: he was one of the greatest players of the 80's. If Kareem joined the NBA in 1980 at age 32 and never played in the 70's he would be an all-time great solely based on his 80's accomplishments. The record speaks for itself (1980-1989):

Accolades: 1 MVP, 6 all-NBA (4 first, 2 second), 5 top five MVP finishes, 3 all-D (two first), FMVP (robbed in 80’), 10 all-star selections.
Stats: 21/8/3 with 2 blocks in both the season and the playoffs.
Team results: 5 rings, 8 finals, 9 WCF.

For some perspective, compare his accomplishments in the worst half of his career with the career total accomplishments of other players.

Players with 6 all-NBA selections: Curry, Kidd, Harden, Elvin Hayes, Frazier, Mikan, Carmelo
Players with 4 all-NBA first teams: Dirk, Havlicek, Robinson, Garnett, Moses, Chris Paul, Frazier, Sharman, Davies, Zaslofsky
Players with 10 all-star selections: Allen, Carmelo, Arizin, Drexler, Durant, Greer, Kidd, C. Paul, Pierce, Robinson, Stockton
Players with 1 MVP: Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem, Durant, Harden, Westbrook, Dirk, Garnett, Iverson, Barkley, Robinson, Dr. J, Walton, Oscar, Reed, Cousy. This is an incomplete list but covers most of them.

16,246 points over the decade.

His MVP finishes from 1980-1986 were: 1st, 3rd, 10th, 10th, 4th, 4th, 5th.

So he had five top 5 MVP finishes in the 80's, including a 1st. As a comparison, Hakeem had six top 5 MVP finishes and one 1st place finish in his 18 year career.

In the NBA finals he went: 33/14/3, 18/8/4, 24/8/3, 27/8/4, 26/9/5, 22/7/1, 13/4/1, 13/5/2. These lines don't mention his blocks, such as 5 BPG in 80'.

So he kept producing at a high level in the finals until his age 41 and 42 finals.
If you simply average the averages they are 22/8/3. For some perspective, the finals career average for other big men are K. Malone 20/10/3, KG 17/9/3, McHale 18/7/1, Reed 20/10/3, Cowens 22/13/4, Parish 15/8/1, Dirk 24/10/3.

Taken together you have a picture of a player who remained elite well into his 30’s.

How does his longevity compare? Let’s look at other centers at ages 38 and 39:

Hakeem: 12/7/1, 7/6/1
Shaq: 9/5/1, retired
Ewing: 10/7/1, 6/4/1
KAJ: 23/6/4, 18/7/3

If Kareem only played in the 80's he would still have a case for being top 25-30 all-time and the amazing thing is this was the worst half of his career.

[1987_Lakers]

He could still score with the best of them at age 39, I believe he is the oldest player to ever win Finals MVP at age 38, made All-NBA First team at age 39. He was the best player in the league in 1980, after that his prime was over, but from '81-'86 he was still a top 10 player. His rebounding and defense took a noticeable dip starting in 1982, but because he was so skilled offensively his scoring ability was still very effective well into his late 30's.

[Roundball_Rock]

It was amazing how he was 41 years old by the 88' finals in a must win Game 6 for the Lakers and Riley called the game winning shot for Kareem (he got fouled on the sky hook attempt but made both free throws to give the Lakers a 1 point win; they won Game 7). I don't think there is anyone else who would be 41 or close to it who would be so trusted by a coach in that big of a situation but as Simmons said in his book KAJ's sky hook were the surest 2 points in history.

I forgot to mention 39 year old KAJ went 26/7/3 on prime Hakeem (86' was tied for Hakeem's third highest MVP finish and he was all-NBA second team behind Kareem) in the 86' WCF.

[Kblaze8855]

Hakeem and Ewing both getting work:



https://youtu.be/fw_ilZwOMms

[Kblaze8855]

https://youtu.be/q-jrbwaYMFI

[Roundball_Rock]

Great stuff, KBlaze!

So where do you guys think KAJ would rank all-time solely based on his 80's career? For some comps here are the accolades for these legend's entire careers:

Ewing: 7x all-NBA (1 first team), 11x all-star, six top 5 MVP finishes (all were 4th or 5th)
Drexler: 5x all-NBA (1 first team), 10x all-star, two top 5 MVP finishes
Kidd: 6x all-NBA (5 first team), 10x all-star, two top 5 MVP finishes
Payton: 9x all-NBA (2 first team), 9x all-star, one top 5 MVP finish, DPOY
Iverson: 7x all-NBA (3 first team), 11x all-star, one MVP and three top 5 finishes
Nash: 7x all-NBA (3 first team), 8x all-star, 2 MVPs and three top 5 finishes
80's KAJ: 6x all-NBA (4 first team), 10x all-star, 1 MVP and five top 5 finishes, FMVP

This doesn't even factor in KAJ won 5 rings and of these players Drexler had 1 (as a #2) and Payton as a role player.

[Replay32]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwr0ceF-Jtk

[Mr Feeny]

He was the guy getting carried to title while putting up 4 points in finals game 7's. On 2-7 shooting.

He was the guy getting outtebounded 18 to 7.5 by a shorter opponent.

He was the guy who was badly outplayed twice in 3 years by Moses Malone.

He was the guy losing with homecourt advantage in the 1st round as defending champion because he was outplayed by his opposing centre.

And this coming after a 10 year stretch in which he won only 1 title and misses the playoffs in consecutive years at 27 and 28 while being eliminated with homecourt advantage the other 3 years that bookended that failures.

[Mr Feeny]

Great stuff, KBlaze!

So where do you guys think KAJ would rank all-time solely based on his 80's career? For some comps here are the accolades for these legend's entire careers:

Ewing: 7x all-NBA (1 first team), 11x all-star, six top 5 MVP finishes (all were 4th or 5th)
Drexler: 5x all-NBA (1 first team), 10x all-star, two top 5 MVP finishes
Kidd: 6x all-NBA (5 first team), 10x all-star, two top 5 MVP finishes
Payton: 9x all-NBA (2 first team), 9x all-star, one top 5 MVP finish, DPOY
Iverson: 7x all-NBA (3 first team), 11x all-star, one MVP and three top 5 finishes
Nash: 7x all-NBA (3 first team), 8x all-star, 2 MVPs and three top 5 finishes
80's KAJ: 6x all-NBA (4 first team), 10x all-star, 1 MVP and five top 5 finishes, FMVP

This doesn't even factor in KAJ won 5 rings and of these players Drexler had 1 (as a #2) and Payton as a role player.

Why would it factor titles?
None of those guys had Magic to carry them to titles while they consistently wet the bed in the biggest matches.

[dankok8]

Pretty damn great.

You can make a case that he was the 3rd best player in the entire decade of the 80's after Bird and Magic of course. In 1985 he was the best player in the finals which had Magic and Bird in their primes. And Kareem was 38 during that series.

[Round Mound]

I have Kareem ranked 3rd in my All Time Players List. He was all star level till about 1987. Incredible longevity and lets remember that his prime and peak was in the 70s

[Roundball_Rock]

Pretty damn great.

You can make a case that he was the 3rd best player in the entire decade of the 80's after Bird and Magic of course. In 1985 he was the best player in the finals which had Magic and Bird in their primes. And Kareem was 38 during that series.

True. I suppose Moses would be the only other guy with a case over KAJ for third in the 80's. Dr. J was retired after 87' and didn't remain an elite player as long as KAJ did.


I have Kareem ranked 3rd in my All Time Players List. He was all star level till about 1987. Incredible longevity and lets remember that his prime and peak was in the 70s

Highest center on your list?

Replay32, good stuff. You and KBlaze bringing some good footage into this thread. :cheers:

[Axe]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTFcquxyJPrw0CcJU0NDKKKPH7O3fj ycbaIjI7aKcrAgJikOhKu&usqp=CAU

[Jasper]

unstoppable (.)

[dankok8]

True. I suppose Moses would be the only other guy with a case over KAJ for third in the 80's. Dr. J was retired after 87' and didn't remain an elite player as long as KAJ did.



Highest center on your list?

Replay32, good stuff. You and KBlaze bringing some good footage into this thread. :cheers:

Yea I can see Moses being argued for #3 player of the 80's. I'd still give the nod to Kareem though.

In 1980 Kareem was better, 1981 was a wash, 1982 Moses, 1983 Moses, then 1984-1986 Kareem was better again, 1987 another wash, and 1988 and 1989 edge Moses again but Moses didn't do much in those years. He and his teams weren't relevant after 1985. In fact no one really knows why he faded away. Many people think that because Moses played with such intensity and passion that after he won a title in 1983 with the Sixers he just never had the same motivation. I guess we'll never know.

Moses Malone is definitely underrated though. Guy that should be mentioned a lot more when walking about best big men ever, best rebounders ever...

[Round Mound]

True. I suppose Moses would be the only other guy with a case over KAJ for third in the 80's. Dr. J was retired after 87' and didn't remain an elite player as long as KAJ did.



Highest center on your list?

Replay32, good stuff. You and KBlaze bringing some good footage into this thread. :cheers:


I have prime and peak Wilt ahead of him. His my 3rd All Time GOAT (1st MJ and 2nd Wilt)

[StrongLurk]

I made a big post recently about Kareem in the 80s as well. It's clear this guy would dominate any era in his prime since he was still elite in the 80's as an older player.

I think Kareem can't be ranked any lower than 3rd best all time.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yea I can see Moses being argued for #3 player of the 80's. I'd still give the nod to Kareem though.

In 1980 Kareem was better, 1981 was a wash, 1982 Moses, 1983 Moses, then 1984-1986 Kareem was better again, 1987 another wash, and 1988 and 1989 edge Moses again but Moses didn't do much in those years. He and his teams weren't relevant after 1985. In fact no one really knows why he faded away. Many people think that because Moses played with such intensity and passion that after he won a title in 1983 with the Sixers he just never had the same motivation. I guess we'll never know.

Moses Malone is definitely underrated though. Guy that should be mentioned a lot more when walking about best big men ever, best rebounders ever...

It is amazing. He won 3 MVP's, including back-to-back, with Kareem, Magic, Bird, Dr. J all in the league and he basically is forgotten today.


I have prime and peak Wilt ahead of him. His my 3rd All Time GOAT (1st MJ and 2nd Wilt)

Got it. :cheers:


I made a big post recently about Kareem in the 80s as well. It's clear this guy would dominate any era in his prime since he was still elite in the 80's as an older player.

That is why the era card is bunk. If he was this good well past his prime in the 80's, what would prime KAJ have done in that decade? He easily would have been the best player.

[Duncan21formvp]

Not that good apart from 1980.