"No Pip, No Chip" stats post-Bulls.

[ClipperRevival]

1999 - 2004, regular season (345 games):

12.7 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 5.4 APG, 1.7 SPG, .436%, 15.4 PER


1999 - 2004, playoffs (30 games):

14.2 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 4.3 APG, 1.7 SPG, .406%, 16.7 PER


Colluded with Hakeem/Barkley and played with one of the deepest teams EVER in the Blazers and couldn't sniff a ring.

Discuss.

[Vino24]

2nd option and way past his prime. As a 2nd option leading a team his ceiling was always the 2nd round. However MJ didn’t fair any better without Pippen

[ClipperRevival]

2nd option and way past his prime. As a 2nd option leading a team his ceiling was always the 2nd round. However MJ didn’t fair any better without Pippen

Pip was 33 in 1998-99 and 34 in 1999-00 babyboi. :yaohappy:

[Roundball_Rock]

2nd option and way past his prime. As a 2nd option leading a team his ceiling was always the 2nd round. However MJ didn’t fair any better without Pippen

Notice they omit his years without MJ in his prime? Weak trolling.

[Vino24]

Pip was 33 in 1998-99 and 34 in 1999-00 babyboi. :yaohappy:

His body was done by that time. This is a fact

[ClipperRevival]

Pip in 1997-98. Purposely rehabs during the season and misses a ton of games, MJ doesn't bat an eye and still drags this team to a chip.

Very next season, Pip colludes with former MVPs Hakeem and Barkley and loses in the 1st round.

Can't make this sh*t up.

[Vino24]

Pip in 1997-98. Purposely rehabs during the season and misses a ton of games, MJ doesn't bat an eye and still drags this team to a chip.

Very next season, Pip colludes with former MVPs Hakeem and Barkley and loses in the 1st round.

Can't make this sh*t up.

Pippen was injured you dumbass. Meanwhile MJ retired in his absolute prime with no fvcking ailments.

[ClipperRevival]

His body was done by that time. This is a fact

So what you're saying is, Pip was completely healthy and good to go up until they won a chip in 1997-98 but as soon as he went to the Rockets in 1998-99, his body gave out on him? Gotcha! :lebronamazed:

[ClipperRevival]

Pippen was injured you dumbass. Meanwhile MJ retired in his absolute prime with no fvcking ailments.

35 year old MJ is in his absolute prime? :yaohappy:

Just keep moving that goal post babyboi.

[Vino24]

35 year old MJ is in his absolute prime? :yaohappy:

Just keep moving that goal post babyboi.

MJ was 35 in 1994?

[Hey Yo]

Pip was 33 in 1998-99 and 34 in 1999-00 babyboi. :yaohappy:
And yet he never felt the need to quit the game "in his prime" for almost 2yrs to rest up physically and mentally.

[Hey Yo]

Pip in 1997-98. Purposely rehabs during the season and misses a ton of games, MJ doesn't bat an eye and still drags this team to a chip.

Very next season, Pip colludes with former MVPs Hakeem and Barkley and loses in the 1st round.

Can't make this sh*t up.
And yet he still made All-NBA on both sides of the court that season.

Just proves how watered down the league was then.

[ClipperRevival]

And yet he never felt the need to quit the game "in his prime" for almost 2yrs to rest up physically and mentally.

Dude, literally like 99% of all yours posts is about this topic only. What gives? LOL

[ClipperRevival]

And yet he still made All-NBA on both sides of the court that season.

Just proves how watered down the league was then.

3rd team All-NBA, not 1st team.

So if the league was watered down, that would make Pip getting bounced in the 1st round with Hakeem/Chuck the very next season look that much worse huh?

[SouBeachTalents]

3rd team All-NBA, not 1st team.

So if the league was watered down, that would make Pip getting bounced in the 1st round with Hakeem/Chuck the very next season look that much worse huh?
Getting bounced in the 1st round was Jordan's greatest achievement without Pippen

[Vino24]

3rd team All-NBA, not 1st team.

So if the league was watered down, that would make Pip getting bounced in the 1st round with Hakeem/Chuck the very next season look that much worse huh?

All 3 had injuries they were dealing with. But don’t let that ruin your agenda

[Axe]

Getting bounced in the 1st round was Jordan's greatest achievement without Pippen
With a matchup against the goat celtics led by larry bird?

Thanks, captain obvious.

[ClipperRevival]

Getting bounced in the 1st round was Jordan's greatest achievement without Pippen

1st 3 seasons in the league with no help going up against GOAT tier teams and putting up:

35.5 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 6.9 APG, 2.4 SPG, 1.5 BPG, 27.4 PER

Keep clinging to 1-9 babyboi. Carries no weight.

[SouBeachTalents]

1st 3 seasons in the league with no help going up against GOAT tier teams and putting up:

35.5 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 6.9 APG, 2.4 SPG, 1.5 BPG, 27.4 PER

Keep clinging to 1-9 babyboi. Carries no weight.
Empty stats

[Whoah10115]

Empty stats

He said Jordan's.

[ClipperRevival]

Empty stats

Some truth to that. When MJ first came into the league, he didn't know how to make others better. He needed to learn to do that. But those are the #s he put up. Freaken GOAT tier sh*t.

[Docs Orders]

no pip no chip gottem feelin some kinda way :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

Hakeem and Chuck. Hakeem was something like 13/6/4 against Shaq. You can look up the exact numbers yourself. Hakeem, Barkley, Pippen were all remnants of what they were in their primes.

The Rockets after Pippen left did the same thing the Blazers and Bulls did after Pippen left: miss the playoffs.

What are the corresponding stats and team results for MJ post-Bulls, BTW?

[Hey Yo]

3rd team All-NBA, not 1st team.

So if the league was watered down, that would make Pip getting bounced in the 1st round with Hakeem/Chuck the very next season look that much worse huh?

All-NBA is All-NBA. He still got the nod after missing almost half the season.

No, it wouldn't look worse. They got beat by a younger, more hungry Lakers team. Hakeem was well past his prime... they had no answer for Shaq, Kobe was starting to come into his own. Ripping Scottie for losing in the first round after he'd been to the 2nd round or further for 11 "straight" seasons is pretty dumb. Like I said, it's not like he had the luxury of resting up for as few years and then returned.

[ClipperRevival]

no pip no chip gottem feelin some kinda way :oldlol:

Here come the alts.

:roll::roll::roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

Some truth to that. When MJ first came into the league, he didn't know how to make others better. He needed to learn to do that. But those are the #s he put up. Freaken GOAT tier sh*t.
I'm just playin bro, Jordan played about as well as anybody could've in those scenarios. He couldn't even get a W scoring 63 points

[Axe]

Hakeem and Chuck. Hakeem was something like 13/6/4 against Shaq. You can look up the exact numbers yourself. Hakeem, Barkley, Pippen were all remnants of what they were in their primes.

The Rockets after Pippen left did the same thing the Blazers and Bulls did after Pippen left: miss the playoffs.

What are the corresponding stats and team results for MJ post-Bulls, BTW?
Stick to one narrative, kiddo.

[Hey Yo]

1st 3 seasons in the league with no help going up against GOAT tier teams and putting up:

35.5 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 6.9 APG, 2.4 SPG, 1.5 BPG, 27.4 PER

Keep clinging to 1-9 babyboi. Carries no weight.
Imagine a LeBron teammate avg. 20+ a game in B2B playoffs (Woolridge) and saying he was absolutely no help and non-factor to the team.

[Hey Yo]

Stick to one narrative, kiddo.
Why retire your superduper acct?

[Axe]

Why retire your superduper acct?
You asking the wrong person, boyo.

[Axe]

I'm just playin bro, Jordan played about as well as anybody could've in those scenarios. He couldn't even get a W scoring 63 points
Well, what could've been better? It would be very lame if the reporters showcasing the highlights in the games are only limited to the winning teams all the time.

[Stanley Kobrick]

yes chips, ranch dip

[Axe]

I'm just playin bro, Jordan played about as well as anybody could've in those scenarios. He couldn't even get a W scoring 63 points
Also, this statement sounds similar to saying that some western teams with winning records don't even make the playoffs, despite having better % than some rivals in the east with losing records yet, still made the playoffs.

Think about it.

[Mamba4Life]

Jordan was worse, he missed the playoffs in 2002 and 2003 :roll:


The "GOAT" couldn't make the playoffs in the weak East?

[Axe]

Either you're just too dumb or too retarded to realize the nikka was already reaching his 40s during those years.

[ClipperRevival]

Either you're just too dumb or too retarded to realize the nikka was already reaching his 40s during those years.

The goal post moving is hilarious.

As soon as Pip leaves the Bulls at age 33, he is all of a sudden injured and completely past his prime and nothing should be held against him.

On the flip side, an MJ that was retired for 3 full seasons comes back at the ages of 38-40 and is judged as if he was in his prime. Only reason MJ came back was to compete and his love for the game. If he truly cared about saving face regarding his legacy, he would've stayed retired. But dude just had to come back and play.

Can't make this sh*t up. :yaohappy:

[Axe]

The goal post moving is hilarious.

As soon as Pip leaves the Bulls at age 33, he is all of a sudden injured and completely past his prime and nothing should be held against him.

On the flip side, an MJ that was retired for 3 full seasons comes back at the ages of 38-40 and is judged as if he was in his prime. Only reason MJ came back was to compete and his love for the game. If he truly cared about saving face regarding his legacy, he would've stayed retired. But dude just had to come back and play.

Can't make this sh*t up. :yaohappy:
Yeah, can't just expect great basketball players to stay and play in their primes forever. Needless to say, that's ridiculous and one that is far off from reality.

[Roundball_Rock]

Imagine a LeBron teammate avg. 20+ a game in B2B playoffs (Woolridge) and saying he was absolutely no help and non-factor to the team.

In the Kareem thread they are saying if you have a 18-19 PPG scorer that is big help (and Woolridge was 23 PPG with MJ averaging 28. Don't forget Daintley scoring in the high teens and future all-star Oakley in 86' along with these scorers). When Woolridge was mentioned there was no response.


Jordan was worse, he missed the playoffs in 2002 and 2003

Which is why they will never talk about MJ "post-Bulls". :oldlol:

Wasn't it MJ who Kobe lit up for 42 points in a half (was it nationally televised too?)? We have MJ fans rejoicing over Kobe crossing an old Pippen. I wonder what their comment will be regarding MJ.

[Axe]

And...

Here's the obsessed knight in shining armor again talking about kareem in a pippen thread. 😂

[tpols]

he's basically a souped up iggy. which is nice but not close to GOAT.

[Hey Yo]

In the Kareem thread they are saying if you have a 18-19 PPG scorer that is big help (and Woolridge was 23 PPG with MJ averaging 28. Don't forget Daintley scoring in the high teens and future all-star Oakley in 86' along with these scorers). When Woolridge was mentioned there was no response.
You mean exactly like what the OP did in this thread?

[Roundball_Rock]

You mean exactly like what the OP did in this thread?

Yup. :oldlol:

[RogueBorg]

(and Woolridge was 23 PPG with MJ averaging 28. Don't forget Daintley scoring in the high teens and future all-star Oakley in 86' along with these scorers). When Woolridge was mentioned there was no response.





I saw Woolridge play, he was a f------ scrub. He could score a little but that's it, he didn't play defense, couldn't rebound for a guy his size, couldn't and wouldn't pass, they shipped his ass outta there as soon as they could. He was part of that Cocaine Circus they were talking about.

[Roundball_Rock]

The claim made there was MJ would win big with a 18-19 PPG scorer. Elsewhere the claim is MJ just needed any random 20 PPG scorer. (So the PPG numbers shift around but the point remains the same.) Look at this OP. Pippen was a bum--so Pippen, Woolridge, Oakley, etc--who cares? GOAT gonna GOAT as long as he has some productive players around him.

Woolridge, coke or not, was 23 PPG on the court and 25 PPG at his peak. Daintley was a solid third option. The Bulls had six players score in double figures in 86' and two more score at 9.6 PPG. In 85' the scoring was lower for most players because MJ consumed 20 FGA per game but we saw their scoring capability with MJ out 65 games the next year.

Ultimately it is a dumb argument but the entire MJ thing relies on team success so teammates and the team get downplayed, every opposing star or team hyped, and Woolridge dismissed as a cokehead because we saw the MJ "20+ PPG" second option scenario in Chicago (also later in Washington with Stackhouse and Hamilton--similar outcomes) and nothing like the claims we hear of what he would have done with another second option came to fruition.

[ClipperRevival]

The claim made there was MJ would win big with a 18-19 PPG scorer. Elsewhere the claim is MJ just needed any random 20 PPG scorer. (So the PPG numbers shift around but the point remains the same.) Look at this OP. Pippen was a bum--so Pippen, Woolridge, Oakley, etc--who cares? GOAT gonna GOAT as long as he has some productive players around him.

Woolridge, coke or not, was 23 PPG on the court and 25 PPG at his peak. Daintley was a solid third option. The Bulls had six players score in double figures in 86' and two more score at 9.6 PPG. In 85' the scoring was lower for most players because MJ consumed 20 FGA per game but we saw their scoring capability with MJ out 65 games the next year.

Ultimately it is a dumb argument but the entire MJ thing relies on team success so teammates and the team get downplayed, every opposing star or team hyped, and Woolridge dismissed as a cokehead because we saw the MJ "20+ PPG" second option scenario in Chicago (also later in Washington with Stackhouse and Hamilton--similar outcomes) and nothing like the claims we hear of what he would have done with another second option came to fruition.

This thread is about Pip post Bulls career.

As the post above, you're missing the point man. First off, only 1 guy said MJ can win with any decent scorer (3ball) and no one else. Second, you seriously going to JUDGE MJ in his first 3 years in the league as if that is the be all, end all? If so, that only CONFIRMS that MJ is the GOAT because he is held to a higher standard. He was a brilliant individual talent those years as evidenced by his individual stats. He didn't quite know how to make teammates better yet. And so what? He eventually did.

WHAT MORE IS THERE TO SAY THAN THAT??????

[Vino24]

This thread is about Pip post Bulls career.

As the post above, you're missing the point man. First off, only 1 guy said MJ can win with any decent scorer (3ball) and no one else. Second, you seriously going to JUDGE MJ in his first 3 years in the league as if that is the be all, end all? If so, that only CONFIRMS that MJ is the GOAT because he is held to a higher standard. He was a brilliant individual talent those years as evidenced by his individual stats. He didn't quite know how to make teammates better yet. And so what? He eventually did.

WHAT MORE IS THERE TO SAY THAN THAT??????

So we can’t judge MJ in his first 3 years or his final two years. Basically we can’t judge MJ for half a decade of his career :biggums::oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

You can’t judge the real Scottie Pippen on numbers and we talking about his numbers years later? Nobody who was over 15 at the time in question thinks that was Bulls Pippen from 99-04 no matter how old he was. The rest is just trolling.

[ClipperRevival]

So we can’t judge MJ in his first 3 years or his final two years. Basically we can’t judge MJ for half a decade of his career :biggums::oldlol:

We should judge everything, but with proper CONTEXT. For instance, if i was evaluating LeBron and put heavy emphasis on only his first 3 seasons and his last 2 seasons, you would say i am not being fair as a player has their best seasons during their peak/prime. Same situation here. PROPER CONTEXT.

[Smoke117]

Are you fukking serious with this bullshit? Pippen was 33 in 99 and way past his prime you fukking c@nt.

[dankok8]

What does OP mean by couldn't sniff a ring? Blazers were one decent Game 7 4th quarter away from winning a title in 2000. I would say Pippen was rather close to winning one outside of Chicago. Not that it matters because he wasn't a superstar anymore. It was a team effort on the Blazers but still.

[Roundball_Rock]

What does OP mean by couldn't sniff a ring? Blazers were one decent Game 7 4th quarter away from winning a title in 2000. I would say Pippen was rather close to winning one outside of Chicago. Not that it matters because he wasn't a superstar anymore. It was a team effort on the Blazers but still.

Especially when you compare that to MJ's team results without Pippen. Bill Wennington himself notes in his book (where he said he would draft Pippen over Jordan), that Pippen came a lot closer to a ring without MJ than vice versa.

[Manny98]

At least he wasn't 1-9 in the playoffs those years :roll:

[3ball]

1999 - 2004, regular season (345 games):

12.7 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 5.4 APG, 1.7 SPG, .436%, 15.4 PER


1999 - 2004, playoffs (30 games):

14.2 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 4.3 APG, 1.7 SPG, .406%, 16.7 PER


Colluded with Hakeem/Barkley and played with one of the deepest teams EVER in the Blazers and couldn't sniff a ring.

Discuss.

MJ by himself was better than the entire blazers' cast and hakeem/barkley combined.

We already know that the other Bulls were replaceable (a completely new cast of role players won the 2nd three-peat)

[Vino24]

Of course MJ needed Pippen because MJ wasn’t capable of being a MJ and a Pippen simultaneously, that’s impossible. Unless you are LeBron

[3ball]

Of course MJ needed Pippen because MJ wasn’t capable of being a MJ and a Pippen simultaneously, that’s impossible. Unless you are LeBron

Pippen averaged the same assists as MJ - MJ infact averaged more assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs with Pippen, so MJ was already Pippen plus goat scoring

[knicksman]

Dude, literally like 99% of all yours posts is about this topic only. What gives? LOL

The guy is the cheapest on this board. Like you just cringe everytime he post.

[LeCroix]

1-9

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How did Houston not do anything both years?

Textbook underachievers. First with Clyde/Barkley/Hakeem and then Pippen/Barkley/Hakeem in 99.

Barkley gained weight but the talent was still there. Didn't watch many of their regular-season games ('99 lockout) so maybe someone can break it down.

[3ball]

How did Houston not do anything both years?

Textbook underachievers. First with Clyde/Barkley/Hakeem and then Pippen/Barkley/Hakeem in 99.

Barkley gained weight but the talent was still there. Didn't watch many of their regular-season games ('99 lockout) so maybe someone can break it down.

How can any team win with one of their top guys - the guy that has the ball in his hands the most - shooting 32% on 18 ppg?

teams don't win with the star playing like that, so Pippen is the reason the Rockets and Blazers lost - this should be obvious

[LAmbruh]

No pip no chip

[Nowoco]

#JustPip?NoChip

[ClipperRevival]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/c0oAAOSw5dNWp9MD/s-l640.jpg

:yaohappy:

[Mr Feeny]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/c0oAAOSw5dNWp9MD/s-l640.jpg

:yaohappy:

It's a shame that the Houston supertesm didnt work out.
The Barkley-Hakeem-Drexler Rockets didn't even challenge. And the Pippen iteration was just as bad.

I was rooting for them, but they were all shells of themsleves.

[Mr Feeny]

You can’t judge the real Scottie Pippen on numbers and we talking about his numbers years later? Nobody who was over 15 at the time in question thinks that was Bulls Pippen from 99-04 no matter how old he was. The rest is just trolling.

That's true. He was clearly not the same Pippen. Having said that, that's literally a year date Jordan retired. You can't have trolls tell everyone how stacked Jordan's 98 Bulls were and include Pippen in that conversation as if he were one of the best 5 or 6 players at that time and then act as if he was suddenly completely over the hill by 99, conveniently.

[97 bulls]

How did Houston not do anything both years?

Textbook underachievers. First with Clyde/Barkley/Hakeem and then Pippen/Barkley/Hakeem in 99.

Barkley gained weight but the talent was still there. Didn't watch many of their regular-season games ('99 lockout) so maybe someone can break it down.

Olajuwan was old Barkley was old, lazy, and relatively out of good shape.

Pippens strengths were never really utilized in Houston. The team wanted him to basically be a 3pt shooter. Their offense was pound the ball in to Olajuwan or Barkely.

Heres a article that discusses the Rockets in 99.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pippen-frustrated-with-rockets/

[97 bulls]

I also stumbled across this article as well. It why I feel Barkley is overrated. Talented? Yes. But his bad work ethic and mentality cost him a Championship. And cements my argument that Barkley shouldn't be as highly regarded as he is.


He said Barkley owes him an apology for making him play with Barkley's "fat butt." Pippen said Michael Jordan always told him Barkley never would win a championship and he regrets not listening to him. Pippen said Barkley was selfish and not dedicated.

That view is shared around the league. One of the dirty little NBA secrets has been that coaches, executives and players mostly don't care for Barkley.

He rarely adheres to any team rules. He routinely shows up for games just minutes before they start. He hardly ever practices, declines to play any defense and dominates offenses no matter the team's plan.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1999-10-01-9910010042-story,amp.html

[Roundball_Rock]

#JustPip?NoChip

#JustMJ...and ?

[Soundwave]

If Chicago didn't have a reasonable no.2 option (which isn't asking for a lot) Jordan simply would've gone elsewhere and won championships somewhere else. Barkley did the same thing, he's just not as good as Jordan.

There was no way a player that good was simply never going to win titles. Likely what happens if there's no Pippen and the Bulls are too incompetent to build a decent team is Jordan ends up being acquired by the Lakers or Knicks or something like that by about 1990 and they cash in on those titles instead of Chicago.

Eventually even sponsors like Nike and McDonalds would be pushing him to go elsewhere.

That's about it.

Magic Johnson flat out told the Bulls he'd refuse to play for them when he was being drafted if they won the draft lol, so it wouldn't be the first time a great player said "nope" to the Bulls.

This narrative this board tries to push so hard that somehow Jordan is indebted to the Bulls or Pippen is bull sh*t. THEY are lucky they got the best player ever, the Bulls are a junk tier franchise that did nothing before Jordan and has done nothing since.

[Stanley Kobrick]

https://i.postimg.cc/FHhFqZ8Y/uiolyholyhlk.png

[Hey Yo]

If MJ would've just "went somewhere else to win" he would've had to wait till his 8yr contract was up at the end of 96 season.

Unless of course he demanded a trade which would have stripped the trading partner of their best players and he'd be back to square one.

[Soundwave]

If MJ would've just "went somewhere else to win" he would've had to wait till his 8yr contract was up at the end of 96 season.

Unless of course he demanded a trade which would have stripped the trading partner of their best players and he'd be back to square one.

Barkley didn't have to do that.

The Bulls simply would've had to accept the package they got just like the 76ers would.

Nike would've been pushing him to leave by 1990.

Plenty of teams would've given up a lot to get him, you're still better off with him.

Likely the chain of events changes too so that he doesn't retire in 1993 either.

[Hey Yo]

Barkley didn't have to do that.

The Bulls simply would've had to accept the package they got just like the 76ers would.

Nike would've been pushing him to leave by 1990.

Plenty of teams would've given up a lot to get him, you're still better off with him.

Likely the chain of events changes too so that he doesn't retire in 1993 either.
Accept what package? He signed his deal in the summer of 88. If he thought he couldnt win in Chicago then he wouldn't have signed that deal. Plus, he wasnt in the league long enough to qualify for free agency that just started in 88.

He had no upper hand to demand a trade. Reinsdorf probably would have laughed at the notion of trading him.

[Soundwave]

Accept what package? He signed his deal in the summer of 88. If he thought he couldnt win in Chicago then he wouldn't have signed that deal. Plus, he wasnt in the league long enough to qualify for free agency that just started in 88.

He had no upper hand to demand a trade. Reinsdorf probably would have laughed at the notion of trading him.

So why did the 76ers trade Barkley?

You can't be a trash tier franchise indefinitely and expect a player to be happy there. He would have been gone by 90 or 91 if the Bulls did not give him a proper team to work with.

[Hey Yo]

So why did the 76ers trade Barkley?

You can't be a trash tier franchise indefinitely and expect a player to be happy there. He would have been gone by 90 or 91 if the Bulls did not give him a proper team to work with.
They traded Barkley cause he wasnt fitting in with Doug Moe's offense, plus his " me first" attitude, plus incidences on and off the court.

They regretted trading him and that trade is what makes/made Philly very reluctant to move either Embiid or Simmons.

The only way MJ gets out of Chicago would've been to demand a trade. Reinsdorf didnt give new contracts when he knew both MJ and Scottie were underpaid, yet I'm suppose to believe he would've traded MJ?? No chance

[Soundwave]

They traded Barkley cause he wasnt fitting in with Doug Moe's offense, plus his " me first" attitude, plus incidences on and off the court.

They regretted trading him and that trade is what makes/made Philly very reluctant to move either Embiid or Simmons.

The only way MJ gets out of Chicago would've been to demand a trade. Reinsdorf didnt give new contracts when he knew both MJ and Scottie were underpaid, yet I'm suppose to believe he would've traded MJ?? No chance

And he would have demanded a trade by 90 or 91.

It's not like it even hadn't happened before in the NBA. Wilt Chamberlain got traded twice, Kareem Abdul Jabbar demanded a trade to the Lakers and specifically the Lakers because he wanted to go back to the West Coast and was tired of the Bucks sucking and cold ass winters. Barkley was done with the 76ers by 1992.

Luckily for the Bulls having a decent team when you have the freaking greatest player ever is a pretty low bar to clear. You have to be completely incompetent as a franchise to not at least be able to find one other good player in 4-5 years.

[aceman]

Pip in 1997-98. Purposely rehabs during the season and misses a ton of games, MJ doesn't bat an eye and still drags this team to a chip.

Very next season, Pip colludes with former MVPs Hakeem and Barkley and loses in the 1st round.

Can't make this sh*t up.

Scottie played defence for Jordan in 1998 playoffs

[Roundball_Rock]

Soundwave, think about what you are saying. PEAK MJ would be traded. Do you think any team would get him for what Phoenix got Barkley for? Even in that case Phoenix gave up its leading scorer and a total of 3 starters. What do you think MJ would command? The team receiving MJ would have to gut its roster to acquire him, like the Lakers did when they got peak KAJ or the Bulls would have had to do to get peak Kobe. A change of scenery may not have helped him much since the roster he would be joining would be barren.

His best bet would have been to do what Hakeem did and just hope they got lucky once or twice with Grant or maybe a marginal upgrade but getting stars isn't super easy or else every team would have done it. Ask David Robinson, Ewing, Nique, and basically every 90's superstar not named Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, or Penny.

[Soundwave]

Soundwave, think about what you are saying. PEAK MJ would be traded. Do you think any team would get him for what Phoenix got Barkley for? Even in that case Phoenix gave up its leading scorer and a total of 3 starters. What do you think MJ would command? The team receiving MJ would have to gut its roster to acquire him, like the Lakers did when they got peak KAJ or the Bulls would have had to do to get peak Kobe. A change of scenery may not have helped him much since the roster he would be joining would be barren.

His best bet would have been to do what Hakeem did and just hope they got lucky once or twice.

Any team would've traded for him. Basketball is just an entertainment business first and foremost.

And think about what you're saying ... basically the only way Jordan would only win two titles is if his management was so incompetent that they couldn't get a him a decent no.2 option.

Which says what ... that basically the only way to stop this guy from winning a ton of championships was to basically deny him even a half way decent supporting cast.

If he had been drafted into a situation like Bird or Magic, he probably wins like 8 or 9 titles. Even in '84 it was clear as day when the NBA All-Stars played against the 84 Olympic team ... Jordan is hands down the best player on the court by about a country mile and a young Magic and Isiah are playing there.

He was always better than those guys, he just didn't have a competent team around him for several years.

[LeCroix]

https://i.postimg.cc/FHhFqZ8Y/uiolyholyhlk.png

pips chips

[Roundball_Rock]

basically the only way Jordan would only win two titles is if his management was so incompetent that they couldn't get a him a decent no.2 option.

Which says what ... t

Well, I said 1-2 but yeah the point holds. MJ and KAJ are the two greatest players. The main reason I have KAJ ahead of them is longevity but prime versus prime comparable.

As I said in my edited post, though, getting a second star isn't easy. San Antonio, New York, Atlanta never did it for their superstars. Orlando did it but through draft lottery luck--and I think we both agree MJ would keep Chicago out the lottery. The other case is Utah, but Stockton wasn't drafted as a star. The only guy in the 90's who fits that description is Kemp--but you don't draft a high schooler with a first round pick when you have prime MJ and need to win now, not 3-4 years from now.

Phoenix had Kevin Johnson but he was already there when Barkley got there.

Look at LeBron. They were never able to trade for a player better than Jamison for LeBron in Cleveland. The Lakers couldn't get anything around prime Kareem. Magic was only because they somehow had the #1 pick--and KAJ was 32 (33 by playoffs age) by then.

MJ winning a ring or two is almost inevitable but you need a lot to go right to have a dynasty.

[Soundwave]

Well, I said 1-2 but yeah the point holds. MJ and KAJ are the two greatest players. The main reason I have KAJ ahead of them is longevity but prime versus prime comparable.

As I said in my edited post, though, getting a second star isn't easy. San Antonio, New York, Atlanta never did it for their superstars. Orlando did it but through draft lottery luck--and I think we both agree MJ would keep Chicago out the lottery. The other case is Utah, but Stockton wasn't drafted as a star. The only guy in the 90's who fits that description is Kemp--but you don't draft a high schooler with a first round pick when you have prime MJ and need to win now, not 3-4 years from now.

Phoenix had Kevin Johnson but he was already there when Barkley got there.

Look at LeBron. They were never able to trade for a player better than Jamison for LeBron in Cleveland. The Lakers couldn't get anything around prime Kareem. Magic was only because they somehow had the #1 pick--and KAJ was 32 (33 by playoffs age) by then.

MJ winning a ring or two is almost inevitable but you need a lot to go right to have a dynasty.

It's a lot of circumstantial bull shit if we're being honest.

Jordan was probably really the best player in the world by 1985, if not then, almost certainly by 1986, dude is playing on a rehabbed broken foot not having played the entire season and scoring 63 points, it's ridiculous. Any other player would've stayed home and drank pina coladas.

I have Jordan, then Shaq, then it's tough between Kareem/Wilt as the three best in actual ability to play. Wilt was able to hold his own against Kareem at an older age, it makes me wonder how a 24-25 year old Wilt would do. That to me is an unknown. LeBron is not far behind that group.

[Roundball_Rock]

To clarify, every team would trade for MJ. That actually would hurt MJ--the Bulls would send him to the best offer. My point is the roster he would have upon a trade would be barren.


It's a lot of circumstantial bull shit if we're being honest.

The only circumstances we have data for. Those were trade precedents for superstars and noting the failures of every team in the league to trade for a star alongside their superstar in that era. The one exception was Houston and that was post-prime Drexler and Hakeem was 32 by then. If it was easy, San Antonio, New York, etc. would all have done it. New York was one star away.

[Mr Feeny]

Well, I said 1-2 but yeah the point holds. MJ and KAJ are the two greatest players. The main reason I have KAJ ahead of them is longevity but prime versus prime comparable.

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There's nothing comparable about them, prime for prime. The only people whose primes are close to Jordan are Lebron and Shaq. Kareem isnt close to any of the 3, peak-wise.

You're talking about a second "star". Interesting. Because Jordan never had an all time elite player on his team. His 2nd best player was pippen and that was all Jordan needed to lead his team to 6 titles as the lead dog in an 8 year stretch.

Kareem was the guy who won 1 title in 9 years before a top 5 GOAT came on his team and immediately won fmvp. Kareem needed a top 5 GOAT to win, unlike Jordan and Lebron who won more titles as lead dogs with less help.