View Full Version : Why do bron stans use "competition" against MJ?
When you have Kawhi about to tie him in rings and fmvp's? In 10 years less? KD? Curry? Kobe 5/7 in his 13 year prime out West, beating 24 50+ win teams in the POs? Shaq 4, Duncan 5. Why are we pretending he dominated his competition? Cheating, creating the Heatles because he couldn't do shit with his zero skills.. still barely 3 rings and 6 finals losses with hand picked teams in the East, beating teams like Brooklyn and Bobcats? Why is that more import than other greats? The Westbrook/Doncic/Harden stats perhaps? Why focus on MJ? MJ was better at everything on both sides, all the awards and stats and simply dominated his "weak" competition like no other (no excuses) and moved the game forward like no other.
Mamba4Life
05-11-2020, 03:08 AM
Because the best team Jordan faced is worse than the worst team LeBron faced.
Look at SRS
https://i.redd.it/g7vmn1o505r01.jpg
Because the best team Jordan faced is worse than the worst team LeBron faced.
Look at SRS
https://i.redd.it/g7vmn1o505r01.jpg
Did you read what i posted? So the modern players who had more succes and are having more succes than lebron are all better than MJ?
Always bringing up finals competition like lebron didn't win three with luck and lost 6 and got shutdown in a bad way in those finals y'all love to bring up. How about his easy competition in the playoffs after creating the monstars?
Docs Orders
05-11-2020, 03:19 AM
Because the best team Jordan faced is worse than the worst team LeBron faced.
Look at SRS
https://i.redd.it/g7vmn1o505r01.jpg
first reply slays are the best :applause:
LeCroix
05-11-2020, 03:22 AM
Because the best team Jordan faced is worse than the worst team LeBron faced.
Look at SRS
https://i.redd.it/g7vmn1o505r01.jpg
Oops
Thread over
#Educated
LeCroix
05-11-2020, 03:23 AM
2013 LBJ beat #6, #1, and #3 ranked defense back to back to back homie.
GOAT record.
#TheMoreYouKnow
GimmeThat
05-11-2020, 03:24 AM
because if records mattered, 6/6, 6 FMVP can't be the only one
3ball
05-11-2020, 03:26 AM
Because the best team Jordan faced is worse than the worst team LeBron faced.
Look at SRS
https://i.redd.it/g7vmn1o505r01.jpg
Net ratings were higher in recent years because the Finals standard of having 3 perennial all-stars ("Big 3's") was only met by 2 teams (Heat/Spurs and Cavs/Warriors), who crushed everyone else to achieve high net ratings.
top-heavy league = higher net ratings... Otoh, the 90's standard to make the Finals was a Big 2, so more teams met this standard and net ratings were therefore lower (better parity)
Ultimately, the Heat/Spurs and Cavs/Warriors were the "Big 3" teams and therefore the only golden tickets to the Finals, so it's pretty weak for one of the golden tickets to complain about comp.. Lebron had his own big 3's and rarely faced a talent deficit - his teams were simply underdogs because he was only winning 51 games with prime Kyrie, while his peers were flirting with 70 (Kawhi, curry)
because if records mattered, 6/6, 6 FMVP can't be the only one
Great responses, why is lebron's losing, cheating and zero skills more impressive than Kawhi, Shaq or Duncan for example? Their competition weak too?
2013 LBJ beat #6, #1, and #3 ranked defense back to back to back homie.
GOAT record.
#TheMoreYouKnow
2013!! What A year, right loser?
3ball
05-11-2020, 03:32 AM
Net ratings were higher in recent years because the Finals standard of having 3 perennial all-stars ("Big 3's") was only met by 2 teams (Heat/Spurs and Cavs/Warriors), who crushed everyone else to achieve high net ratings.
top-heavy league = higher net ratings... Otoh, the 90's standard to make the Finals was a Big 2, so more teams met this standard and net ratings were therefore lower (better parity)
Ultimately, the Heat/Spurs and Cavs/Warriors were the "Big 3" teams and therefore the only golden tickets to the Finals, so it's pretty weak for one of the golden tickets to complain about comp.. Lebron had his own big 3's and rarely faced a talent deficit - his teams were simply underdogs because he was only winning 51 games with prime Kyrie, while his peers were flirting with 70 (Kawhi, curry)
No one
LeCroix
05-11-2020, 03:32 AM
2013 LBJ beat #6, #1, and #3 ranked defense back to back to back homie.
GOAT record.
#TheMoreYouKnow
No one
GimmeThat
05-11-2020, 03:32 AM
Great responses, why is lebron's losing, cheating and zero skills more impressive than Kawhi, Shaq or Duncan for example? Their competition weak too?
sure, since you're pushing so hard. I'll consider Tim Duncan for a movie role, but he's gonna have to make a few cameos for TV first.
Mamba4Life
05-11-2020, 03:47 AM
Net ratings were higher in recent years because the Finals standard of having 3 perennial all-stars ("Big 3's") was only met by 2 teams (Heat/Spurs and Cavs/Warriors), who crushed everyone else to achieve high net ratings.
top-heavy league = higher net ratings... Otoh, the 90's standard to make the Finals was a Big 2, so more teams met this standard and net ratings were therefore lower (better parity)
Ultimately, the Heat/Spurs and Cavs/Warriors were the "Big 3" teams and therefore the only golden tickets to the Finals, so it's pretty weak for one of the golden tickets to complain about comp.. Lebron had his own big 3's and rarely faced a talent deficit - his teams were simply underdogs because he was only winning 51 games with prime Kyrie, while his peers were flirting with 70 (Kawhi, curry)
2015 Cavs only had LeBron in the Finals, not Love or Kyrie who were injured
2016 Cavs had no all stars outside of LeBron
2017 Cavs had no all-nba teammates outside of LeBron
2018 Cavs was the worst supporting cast in Finals history
What are these “Big 3 super teams” you’re saying LeBron had in the Finals? He had no help from 2015-2018
2015 Cavs only had LeBron in the Finals, not Love or Kyrie who were injured
2016 Cavs had no all stars outside of LeBron
2017 Cavs had no all-nba teammates outside of LeBron
2018 Cavs was the worst supporting cast in Finals history
What are these “Big 3 super teams” you’re saying LeBron had in the Finals? He had no help from 2015-2018
We Don't want to hear it.. getting shutdown by iggy, saved by Kyrie and trading away DWade, IT, Crowder and Rose in 18 for "better" fits? Stop focusing on MJ's career. Kobe had Pau, 1 strong leg and 8 fingers to beat the celtics in 10, nobody talks about him being better than MJ because of competition? Atleast Kobe and KD had GAME unlike lebron. nO HaLP
Gimmedarock
05-11-2020, 07:30 AM
What player did Jordan beat that matches the any of the guys Lebron faced? Who’s better than KD? Who’s better than Curry? If you say Magic, the guard who couldn’t really dribble, it’s nostalgia talking. To get to the finals, the Bulls were pushed by trash Knicks teams that couldn’t score 30 points in a quarter. What team that Jordan faced in the finals would be competitive now? Bruh
What player did Jordan beat that matches the any of the guys Lebron faced? Who’s better than KD? Who’s better than Curry? If you say Magic, the guard who couldn’t really dribble, it’s nostalgia talking. To get to the finals, the Bulls were pushed by trash Knicks teams that couldn’t score 30 points in a quarter. What team that Jordan faced in the finals would be competitive now? Bruh
Stop worrying about MJ. Modern NBA, why do others have more rings and tied or about to tie him in less years? What about their competition? Lebron had 18 seasons to match Duncan,Kobe,Curry,Shaq? Have they faced better competition than MJ? Are they better than MJ? Kobe beat 24 50+ win teams out West? He faced taller defenders than MJ at the SG position? Lebron, 18 years, 3 rings.. are we going to blame his whole career on GSW? Maybe despite playing with 2 other all stars, lebron playing style doesn't come near the off ball moving, flexible, adjustable All Stars GSW had? Houston took em to 7, so did OKC?Check lebron's Heatles opponents to get to the finals while he was the only superstar that had 2 other superstars.. didn't take advantage of those years at the end.. but but mj, but but competition!
LAmbruh
05-11-2020, 08:30 AM
Because the best team Jordan faced is worse than the worst team LeBron faced.
Look at SRS
https://i.redd.it/g7vmn1o505r01.jpg
damn, slayed
Roundball_Rock
05-11-2020, 11:36 AM
The answer is obvious: MJ stans go around screaming 6 rings and 6-0 24/7 so pointing out the context for those results is a natural reaction. Look at their teams' relative to their competition on years they made the finals or conference finals for MJ/LeBron (for Kareem through 1985):
SRS Team Ranks
Jordan: 10th, 9th, 1st, 1st, 4th, 1st, 1st, 1st
LeBron: 7th,1st, 1st, 4th, 2nd, 7th, 6th, 4th, 7th, 14th
Kareem: 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 5th, 2nd, 4th, 3rd, 5th, 2nd
Guess which one is "6-0"?
The answer is obvious: MJ stans go around screaming 6 rings and 6-0 24/7 so pointing out the context for those results is a natural reaction. Look at their teams' relative to their competition on years they made the finals or conference finals for MJ/LeBron (for Kareem through 1985):
SRS Team Ranks
Jordan: 10th, 9th, 1st, 1st, 4th, 1st, 1st, 1st
LeBron: 7th,1st, 1st, 4th, 2nd, 7th, 6th, 4th, 7th, 14th
Kareem: 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 5th, 2nd, 4th, 3rd, 5th, 2nd
Guess which one is "6-0"?
Did lebron dominate his competition like other modern players? Kobe, Shaq, duncan? Is he dominating more than Curry and soon KD and Kawhi? What about their competition?
18 seasons, barely 3 rings. Why worry about MJ's competition if other modern players did better? 18 prime seasons is impressive but kobe and mike only needed 13 prime years to win more. Bronstans shouldn't have to worry about MJ's competition because he dominated the **** out of them and was waay better on both ends.
tpols
05-11-2020, 12:35 PM
That has to be the biggest joke of all time.
He played nobody for 90% of his series, and then gets to face the worn out winner of whoever emerges from the West.
https://i.imgur.com/CIu6gDI.jpg
That has to be the biggest joke of all time.
He played nobody for 90% of his series, and then gets to face the worn out winner of whoever emerges from the West.
https://i.imgur.com/CIu6gDI.jpg
Meltdown.
ImKobe
05-11-2020, 01:20 PM
That has to be the biggest joke of all time.
He played nobody for 90% of his series, and then gets to face the worn out winner of whoever emerges from the West.
https://i.imgur.com/CIu6gDI.jpg
Yup. Just look at that 2013 Finals "run"
38-win Bucks - 22nd Ortg
45-win Bulls - 23rd Ortg
49-win Pacers - 20th Ortg
what a joke.
Mamba4Life
05-11-2020, 01:24 PM
Yup. Just look at that 2013 Finals "run"
38-win Bucks - 22nd Ortg
45-win Bulls - 23rd Ortg
49-win Pacers - 20th Ortg
what a joke.
Wanna post Wade and Bosh’s stats that playoffs?
And how did Kobe do that season?
LostCause
05-11-2020, 01:30 PM
Wanna post Wade and Bosh’s stats that playoffs?
And how did Kobe do that season?
Deflecting
ImKobe
05-11-2020, 01:30 PM
Wanna post Wade and Bosh’s stats that playoffs?
And how did Kobe do that season?
What does this have to do with Lebron's competition en route to the Finals?
Wanna post Wade and Bosh’s stats that playoffs?
And how did Kobe do that season?
Gave Pau and Dwight a free ride to the playoffs after a historic season. Dwight and Pau got swept in the first round.
Because Jordans competition is a joke compared to Lebron and explains why MJ has more rings than everyone else because he played no one decent.
Think about it
Magic and Bird and the Pistons all prevented eachother from getting rings in the 80s
In the 2010s you had LeBron,the Warriors and the Spurs all fighting each over for rings in that decade
But in the 90s it was basically MJs Bulls by themselves the entire decade, there wasn't a decent adversary that had the talent to stop them hence 6 rings
That's why the ring argument is bs because teams that play in a era where there isn't much competition are obviously going to win more
Roundball_Rock
05-11-2020, 02:05 PM
Because Jordans competition is a joke compared to Lebron and explains why MJ has more rings than everyone else because he played no one decent.
Think about it
Magic and Bird and the Pistons all prevented eachother from getting rings in the 80s
In the 2010s you had LeBron,the Warriors and the Spurs all fighting each over for rings in that decade
But in the 90s it was basically MJs Bulls by themselves the entire decade, there wasn't a decent adversary that had the talent to stop them hence 6 rings
That's why the ring argument is bs because teams that play in a era where there isn't much competition are obviously going to win more
I posted this elsewhere but this says a lot about their respective competition:
Let's use the Knicks and Warriors as case studies since both were the top rivals to the Jordan or LeBron team in their eras. I am only going to use the period where both sides were championship contenders.
Knicks (92'-97')
Wins: 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57
SRS ranks: 7th, 5th, 2nd, 10th, 10th, 10th
Offense ranks: 12th, 22nd, 16th, 16th, 21st, 25th
Defense ranks: 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 4th, 2nd
Warriors 15'-18'
Wins: 67, 73, 67, 58
SRS ranks: 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd
Offense ranks: 2nd, 1st, 1st, 3rd
Defense ranks: 1st, 5th, 2nd, 11th
LeBron played against dynasties; MJ was on THE dynasty of his era (the Bulls' would look like the Warriors if we looked at them in their era).
3ball
05-11-2020, 08:40 PM
I posted this elsewhere but this says a lot about their respective competition:
Let's use the Knicks and Warriors as case studies since both were the top rivals to the Jordan or LeBron team in their eras. I am only going to use the period where both sides were championship contenders.
Knicks (92'-97')
Wins: 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57
SRS ranks: 7th, 5th, 2nd, 10th, 10th, 10th
Offense ranks: 12th, 22nd, 16th, 16th, 21st, 25th
Defense ranks: 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 4th, 2nd
Warriors 15'-18'
Wins: 67, 73, 67, 58
SRS ranks: 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd
Offense ranks: 2nd, 1st, 1st, 3rd
Defense ranks: 1st, 5th, 2nd, 11th
LeBron played against dynasties; MJ was on THE dynasty of his era (the Bulls' would look like the Warriors if we looked at them in their era).
Pistons compare better as a rival than the Knicks
And MJ had a much bigger talent deficit to Detroit than lebron had to the Warriors
Roundball_Rock
05-11-2020, 09:04 PM
Pistons did nothing after 1991. Even in 1991 they were a 50 win team and got crushed by the Chicago super team.
SpaceJam
05-12-2020, 05:47 AM
Yup. Just look at that 2013 Finals "run"
38-win Bucks - 22nd Ortg
45-win Bulls - 23rd Ortg
49-win Pacers - 20th Ortg
what a joke.
DRTG ranks 'omie? Everyone knows the East was full of defensive juggernauts
Manny98
05-12-2020, 06:58 AM
Pistons compare better as a rival than the Knicks
And MJ had a much bigger talent deficit to Detroit than lebron had to the Warriors
MJ lost to them every year until they got old and were no longer great :oldlol:
MJ would probably have 0 rings if he was 10 years younger and had to play in the bloodbath 80s with the Celtics,Lakers and Bad Boys :oldlol:
He was lucky to play in the weakest era ever
Roundball_Rock
05-12-2020, 07:03 AM
DRTG ranks 'omie? Everyone knows the East was full of defensive juggernauts
Indiana 1st
Chicago 6th
Milwaukee 12th
knicksman
05-12-2020, 07:28 AM
I posted this elsewhere but this says a lot about their respective competition:
Let's use the Knicks and Warriors as case studies since both were the top rivals to the Jordan or LeBron team in their eras. I am only going to use the period where both sides were championship contenders.
Knicks (92'-97')
Wins: 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57
SRS ranks: 7th, 5th, 2nd, 10th, 10th, 10th
Offense ranks: 12th, 22nd, 16th, 16th, 21st, 25th
Defense ranks: 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 4th, 2nd
Warriors 15'-18'
Wins: 67, 73, 67, 58
SRS ranks: 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd
Offense ranks: 2nd, 1st, 1st, 3rd
Defense ranks: 1st, 5th, 2nd, 11th
LeBron played against dynasties; MJ was on THE dynasty of his era (the Bulls' would look like the Warriors if we looked at them in their era).
Personal glory and wins just dont go together. Thats why wilt/lebron/oscar are losers while jordan/magic/russell are winners. And thats the reason why rings are the ultimate measure not your stats.
SATAN
05-12-2020, 07:43 AM
Robert Horry agrees.
Sulico
05-12-2020, 07:46 AM
Because Lebron met numerous historic teams, while Jordan best competition was declining Pistons earlier and underachieving Jazz later.
2007 Spurs - dynasty that won 3 out of 5 titles, and Lebron played them with Zydrunas Ilgauskas as his best teammate.
2011 Lebron choked with better team.
2012 Thunder - young team with 3 future MVPs
2013 Spurs - arguably greatest finals ever. Maybe the biggest total finals teams combined strength of all time. 10 all-stars. 9 HOFers. And collection of damn fine role-players too.
2014 Spurs - arguably the one of the best teams of all time, spectacular dispaly of coaching, teamwork and ball movement.
2015 Warriors - inexperinced but great dynasty on the rise.
2017 Warriors - probably the best team ever assembled.
2018 Warriors - great team that Lebron met with his all-star buddy left him.
Compare that to Jordan's competition.
91 Aging Lakers... Off the cliff next year
92 Aging Blazers - were ok, but guys like Jerome Kersey and Kevin Duckworth are not world beaters. Irrelevancy next year.
93 Suns - Chuck and who? Dan Majerle? ok
96 Sonics - Solid team, but without true superstar. Payton was good, don't get me wrong, but he's no Duncan, Steph, Durant or Dirk.
97-98 Old as dirt Jazz team, that I had misfortune of being a fan of at the time. They always found a way to not surround Stockton, Malone and Horny with any talent at all. And thats why they always found a way to loose. Greg freaking Ostertag was their starting center.. Let that sink in..
Gimmedarock
05-12-2020, 08:37 AM
No 80’s or 90’s teams compare to today because the offensive talent isn’t there. Bron faces teams that could put up points. Jordan faced teams that had one scorer and then mauled everyone. Sorry but that Knicks and Pistons stuff isn’t read D. Warriors or Cavs wouldn’t lose a game to the old Knicks, Pistons, Jazz, Lakers, Celtics. Yeah they might get some buckets in the paint but what are they going to do against today’s three point attack?
deathawaitu
05-12-2020, 10:00 AM
We all knew Lebron would be exposed if he played in the stronger Western Conference
2 years in the west and still a playoff virgin like his stans
We all saw what happened when Lebron played against similar competition. The kid went 3/9 in the finals
ImKobe
05-12-2020, 10:08 AM
DRTG ranks 'omie? Everyone knows the East was full of defensive juggernauts
What does that matter when Lebron only had to play one side of the court due to how piss-poor his opponents were offensively. Bulls were 23rd on offense and didn't even have Deng for the series. He had a free ride to the ECF and still struggled against Paul George and Roy Hibbert. :roll:
Roundball_Rock
05-12-2020, 10:49 AM
We all knew Lebron would be exposed if he played in the stronger Western Conference
:biggums:
The irony? The Lakers have a much better record against the West than they do against the East.
ImKobe
05-12-2020, 11:02 AM
:biggums:
The irony? The Lakers have a much better record against the West than they do against the East.
What did the Lakers do last season?
No Davis, no Playoffs.
Roundball_Rock
05-12-2020, 11:41 AM
True but LeBron has been in the WC two years and his team has had the #1 seed one of those years. In Miami/Cleveland from 2011-2018 they had the #1 seed only twice.
LeBron's teams often do better against the West than the East. That is why their conference records are never mentioned. :oldlol:
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