ESPN's new all time player rankings: 74-41

[SouBeachTalents]

And yes, I realize how random a top 74 player ranking is

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105574/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-74-41

[Hey Yo]

Drexler #57


ouch!

[Vino24]

Bob Cousy still being disrespected

[AlternativeAcc.]

Drexler #57


ouch!

MJs toughest adversary

[Mamba4Life]

Drexler #57


ouch!

Derozan is probably ranked ahead by the time he retires

And he was just a footnote for LeBron, while Drexler was Jordan’s main adversary in the 90’s :oldlol: :facepalm

[LAmbruh]

:dancin:hammertime::lol

[Whoah10115]

Some 5 guys ahead of Clyde that actually made me throw up lol.

[DoctorP]

And yes, I realize how random a top 74 player ranking is

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105574/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-74-41


as great as Alonzo Mourning is, Id take Pau Gasol over him. This list is trash as are most lists.

Id also take Ray Allen over Vince Carter, easy.

[Roundball_Rock]

Drexler 57? :biggums: He should be top 40.

[Uncle Drew]

And yes, I realize how random a top 74 player ranking is

It's the 74th season of the NBA.

[Stephonit]

The disrespect towards Dave Cowens. :facepalm

MVP and 2x champion being put behind multiple losers who were never MVP.

[Kblaze8855]

Reggie....a two time all nba third teamer....ahead of 4 mvps two of which also led multiple title teams. Sure helps to have a rivalry with spike lee and have everyone between 25 and 50 have fond memories. We sure aren’t talking about accomplishments.

[Phoenix]

Drexler 57? :biggums: He should be top 40.

Reggie is 8 spots ahead of him. :confusedshrug:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't know if Dominique is overrated or under.

Great player but is he greater than Glide? Who in the playoffs had a higher PER and better BPM. Also led his team to the finals.

[Roundball_Rock]

Reggie is lucky his biggest moments came against New York, Chicago and not Orlando and Cleveland.

What is revealing about Reggie is he was the best player on a perennial contender but never became a MVP candidate. That tells you people back then saw him for what he was. Almost always the best player on a contender becomes a MVP candidate at some point.

[LostCause]

Thanks for posting this

Though it's interesting that Drexler is so low

Vince Carter being above Drexler and Ray Allen is pretty interesting. TMac being above all of them is crazy though considering how controversial him even getting into the HOF was. At his best he was definitely better, but career-wise? Also if T-Mac is going to be above those 3, why is he below Reggie? The same logic that put him above Drexler, Allen and Carter should easily move him past Reggie Miller. Doesn't seem to be any consistency there

[RRR3]

I love how much KBlaze randomly hates Reggie Miller lmao

[ImKobe]

Gasol at 65, ouch!

These rankings are dogshit already, can't wait for the top 30!

[RogueBorg]

Reggie is lucky his biggest moments came against New York, Chicago and not Orlando and Cleveland.

What is revealing about Reggie is he was the best player on a perennial contender but never became a MVP candidate. That tells you people back then saw him for what he was. Almost always the best player on a contender becomes a MVP candidate at some point.

Miller could only shoot. He couldn't rebound, couldn't play defense, and didn't pass. Not enough MVP qualities.

[ImKobe]

Miller could only shoot. He couldn't rebound, couldn't play defense, and didn't pass. Not enough MVP qualities.

He was good enough as a player, but didn't stand a chance in that era. He'd be a media darling in this era with his advanced stats, because they're really impressive. He's 2nd all-time in Ortg and always had high WS/48 numbers and led the league in TS% multiple times (before the shortened 3PT line) as a 3PT shooter.

[Kblaze8855]

I love how much KBlaze randomly hates Reggie Miller lmao

Know whats odd? I like Reggie Miller....till other people start talking about him. He annoyed me in the 90s but when as he got old in the early 2000s I liked him. I cheered old Reggie vs the Nets and all that. I think he’d be a much more effective player now than he was then for obvious reasons. Reggie might be an actual superstar in 2020. But he damn sure wasn’t back then.

Put Reggie over Willis Reed back then. Someone would have broken a bar stool over your head.

[1987_Lakers]

James Worthy ahead of players like Clyde Drexler, Payton, Reed etc. is an absolute joke.

[LAmbruh]

damage control setting in early :lol



https://media.giphy.com/media/Riz5vozHmQrd3uZhEN/giphy.gif

[raprap]

The consensus is back...

[LAmbruh]

The consensus is back...

:pimp:

[Kblaze8855]

James Worthy ahead of players like Clyde Drexler, Payton, Reed etc. is an absolute joke.

Im not sure Drexler or Gary are as individually respected playing with Magic and Kareem. Drexler obviously runs wild on the break with magic but he wouldn’t be any kinda franchise player in that position. We would probably be talking about what he couldn’t do on his own without showtime to get him easy baskets.

[1987_Lakers]

Im not sure Drexler or Gary are as individually respected playing with Magic and Kareem. Drexler obviously runs wild on the break with magic but he wouldn’t be any kinda franchise player in that position. We would probably be talking about what he couldn’t do on his own without showtime to get him easy baskets.

What we do know is that Drexler & Payton led their teams to the Finals as the best player. Worthy got worse when Magic left, I remember seeing him on the "best damn sports show period" over a decade ago and Worthy acknowledged how much his game suffered when Magic left.

There is absolutely no reason to put him ahead of Drexler & Payton, none.

And I'm not even a huge fan of either player, I would take Harden over Drexler & CP3 over Payton in a heartbeat.

[Mask the Embiid]

DENNIS RODMAN!

https://media.giphy.com/media/jGeuf0mcBdh3q/giphy.gif


No disrespect but top 74....all time...come on now


I could go in depth why but im not trying to tear a man down.I just disagree

[Whoah10115]

as great as Alonzo Mourning is, Id take Pau Gasol over him. This list is trash as are most lists.

Id also take Ray Allen over Vince Carter, easy.

Can't agree with this at all. Gasol is terrific, but imagine Alonzo on that Laker team?

[LostCause]

The real GM Top 100 is still one of the best out there. The selections are debated and it’s more a consensus with good reasoning
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1573442

Having said that, I do like these lists to see where people rate current players among the all time greats. It wouldn’t surprise me if ESPN has Curry in the Top 10

[Mask the Embiid]

So they are basically saying if there was an all-time (30 teams) draft with everyone who ever played in the draft pool.Dennis Rodman would be picked high 3rd round...


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESKD0UKX0AAxfAv.jpg




Nah

[Kblaze8855]

What we do know is that Drexler & Payton led their teams to the Finals as the best player. Worthy got worse when Magic left, I remember seeing him on the "best damn sports show period" over a decade ago and Worthy acknowledged how much his game suffered when Magic left.

There is absolutely no reason to put him ahead of Drexler & Payton, none.

And I'm not even a huge fan of either player, I would take Harden over Drexler & CP3 over Payton in a heartbeat.

Of course his game suffered. Doesn’t mean he was reliant on being setup. Drexler was probably the third most reliable half court scorer of these 3.

[Kblaze8855]

He could go to work....

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AlarmedFittingCaudata-size_restricted.gif


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SimplisticGleamingAiredale-size_restricted.gif


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SecondPlushCaterpillar-size_restricted.gif

[1987_Lakers]

The real GM Top 100 is still one of the best out there. The selections are debated and it’s more a consensus with good reasoning
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1573442

Having said that, I do like these lists to see where people rate current players among the all time greats. It wouldn’t surprise me if ESPN has Curry in the Top 10

Can you imagine ISH attempting a project like this? It would be comedy. :oldlol:

[LAmbruh]

Can you imagine ISH attempting a project like this? It would be comedy. :oldlol:

we actually did and it was quite successful, mirroring pretty much exactly the same as RGM's


The Consensus

[1987_Lakers]

we actually did and it was quite successful, mirroring pretty much exactly the same as RGM's


The Consensus

I remember like 5 years ago there was a project, poster russwest0 was the one running the show, in the #10 voting he counted more votes for Hakeem compared to LeBron despite LeBron finishing with more votes, it was a shit show.

[Roundball_Rock]

we actually did and it was quite successful, mirroring pretty much exactly the same as RGM's


The Consensus

Yeah it went well but I wonder how such an exercise would look today when you have some people with 5-6 alts like 3ball.

[Lebron23]

James Worthy ahead of players like Clyde Drexler, Payton, Reed etc. is an absolute joke.

That's bullshit.

[Run DLC]

They better have DuGOAT at #1 or I’ll riot..Kevin Durant is the greatest to ever played this game. I’ve never seen him anyone dominated the game at every aspects the way DuGOAT has.

[SATAN]

ESPN is cancer

[Whoah10115]

Of course his game suffered. Doesn’t mean he was reliant on being setup. Drexler was probably the third most reliable half court scorer of these 3.

I don't disagree with that but there's no way James Worthy is as good a basketball player as Clyde Drexler.

[brooks_thompson]

Slow down on that Anthony Davis train, ESPN. Yeah he’s on track to be in the 30s-40s but at this point putting him ahead of several better big men is dubious.

I also find it funny on these lists how they always have sections of similar players bunched up together, eg Carter/Allen/Pierce, like ‘I dunno, these guys were in the general ballpark, let’s just list them all here’. Clyde got shafted by at least 20 spots.

[LeCroix]

will kobe make the top 10 since current events shifted things or what?

fun guesses

where will they rank:

kobe
kawhi
pippen

[LeCroix]

They better have DuGOAT at #1 or I’ll riot..Kevin Durant is the greatest to ever played this game. I’ve never seen him anyone dominated the game at every aspects the way DuGOAT has.

before the 73 win team join or after it

[DoctorP]

The disrespect towards Dave Cowens. :facepalm

MVP and 2x champion being put behind multiple losers who were never MVP.

I want to see more of Cowens.

Got any good links?

[LeCroix]

we actually did and it was quite successful, mirroring pretty much exactly the same as RGM's


The Consensus

The Consensus

[Sulico]

Such a disrespectful idiots.
Putting guys like Vince Carter, Tracy Mcgrady, Russell Westbrick, Dominique Wilkins or Anthony Davis ahead of Manu is just idiotic.
None of these guys achieved pretty much anything.
Davis still can do stuff, but the rest are done, and the their results are laughable, yet they are ahead of all around champion like Manu.
Sad people, with the sad list.

[Kblaze8855]

Such a disrespectful idiots.
Putting guys like Vince Carter, Tracy Mcgrady, Russell Westbrick, Dominique Wilkins or Anthony Davis ahead of Manu is just idiotic.
None of these guys achieved pretty much anything.
Davis still can do stuff, but the rest are done, and the their results are laughable, yet they are ahead of all around champion like Manu.
Sad people, with the sad list.


Putting franchise players over successful second and third best players on dynasties isnt that rare. I imagine thats one reason people are annoyed with Worthy over Drexler.

[Run DLC]

before the 73 win team join or after it

He’s still the GOAT. Let’s not change history, that 73 team was a straight lottery team. They were lucky to won that many games that year. DuGOAT carried them in back-to-back finals and solidified his legacy as the greatest to ever do it. No player has ever displayed that type of impact, leadership, and all-around brilliance the way DuGOAT did in those years. He singlehandedly destroyed LeBron and Curry legacies. Not even MJ is on his level.

[Phoenix]

Reggie being over Drexler is really odd. Played in the same era and nobody looked at Reggie being better than Clyde. I mean Drexler led two teams to the finals and played a solid second fiddle to Hakeem on the 95 title team. I think the thing is once you get past the top 15 players, maybe top 20, it gets a lot harder to rank these players. Like it seems like they just randomly threw Vince and Ray side by side but I don't know what their arguing logic is for either their rankings in general or relative to each other.

[Lebron23]

Jeff or Kblaze just needs to merge all of the threads into a single thread. And just posts the complete lists once they release the Top 10 Players.

[Lebron23]

James Worthy ahead of players like Clyde Drexler, Payton, Reed etc. is an absolute joke.

He played for the Lakers and North Carolina. Willis Reed was a 2x mvp and 2x nba champion. I put him over big game James.

[L.Kizzle]

They really disrespected Clyde Drexler here.
The have him ONE spot ahead of Manu and behind a group of swingmen he accomplished more than.

58 Manu
57 CLYDE DREXLER
56 Ray Allen
55 Vince Carter
54 Pierce
53 Glove Payton
52 T-Mac
51 J Worthy
49 Reggie Miller

That would be the equivalent of putting Patrick Ewing behind Yao, Dwight, Ben Wallace, Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Mutombo.

Reggie and Clyde played almost their entire careers vs each other and Reggie was better than Clyde his last season in 98, that's it. Hell, Clyde was an All-Star in 97, his second to last season and Reggie wasn't

[Roundball_Rock]

They really disrespected Clyde Drexler here.
The have him ONE spot ahead of Manu and behind a group of swingmen he accomplished more than.

58 Manu
57 CLYDE DREXLER
56 Ray Allen
55 Vince Carter
54 Pierce
53 Glove Payton
52 T-Mac
51 J Worthy
49 Reggie Miller

That would be the equivalent of putting Patrick Ewing behind Yao, Dwight, Ben Wallace, Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Mutombo.

Reggie and Clyde played almost their entire careers vs each other and Reggie was better than Clyde his last season in 98, that's it. Hell, Clyde was an All-Star in 97, his second to last season and Reggie wasn't

Drexler was a weird case, for reasons mentioned (e.g., being clearly better than Miller in the same era) but also because he was the only player that changed a ton compared to ESPN's rankings in 2016. Everybody else stayed with a few spots but Drexler went from something like #41 to #57.

FWIW, Slam had Drexler 43rd when they did their top 50 list in 2018. Here are those players on that list.

Worthy 46th
Drexler 43rd
Payton 39th
Miller unranked
Allen unranked
Pierce unranked
Manu unranked
Carter unranked
T Mac unranked

https://www.slamonline.com/nba/slams-top-100-players-time-50-11/

Bill Simmons had Drexler 43rd in his book but since then Curry, KD, Kawhi, Harden would all have surpassed him and maybe a few others so Simmons presumably would have him 47-50 now.

Miller gets the benefit of longevity but that was "borderline all-star" longevity and he had no real peak. He was just consistently good for a long time. It is funny how Drexler, Richmond, Dumars were all considered better SG's than him prime versus prime in the same era but he is ahead of Richmond, Dumars everywhere and Drexler some places.

[L.Kizzle]

Drexler was a weird case, for reasons mentioned (e.g., being clearly better than Miller in the same era) but also because he was the only player that changed a ton compared to ESPN's rankings in 2016. Everybody else stayed with a few spots but Drexler went from something like #41 to #57.

FWIW, Slam had Drexler 43rd when they did their top 50 list in 2018. Here are those players on that list.

Worthy 46th
Drexler 43rd
Payton 39th
Miller unranked
Allen unranked
Pierce unranked
Manu unranked
Carter unranked
T Mac unranked

https://www.slamonline.com/nba/slams-top-100-players-time-50-11/

Bill Simmons had Drexler 43rd in his book but since then Curry, KD, Kawhi, Harden would all have surpassed him and maybe a few others so Simmons presumably would have him 47-50 now.

Miller gets the benefit of longevity but that was "borderline all-star" longevity and he had no real peak. He was just consistently good for a long time. It is funny how Drexler, Richmond, Dumars were all considered better SG's than him prime versus prime in the same era but he is ahead of Richmond, Dumars everywhere and Drexler some places.
It's funny how Miller is ranked #49 in 2020, but 25 years ago when the NBA at 50 was announced he was no where to be found. So he became one of the 50 greatest players after his career peaked. No one considered Reggie a top 50 player All-Time then. Reggie was never even a top 10 player in any of his career seasons. Reggie a top 50 player All-Time now means 25 years ago, he was basically a top 25 player of All-Time, because they also have him ranked over a majority of the 50 Greatest Players.

I just did the calculations, taking all of the current players out the equation (and players like Kidd who wouldn't have been included on the NBA at 50 list in 96.) Reggie would be ranked the 30th greatest player in NBA History in 1996. They have him ranked over the majority of the 50 greatest including MVPs Wes Unseld, Willis Reed and Dave Cowens. At this rate, Reggie will possibly be a top 25 NBA player All-Time about 10 years from now. Dude just keeps moving up in ranking as time goes by. This is someone who didn't even get on the Hall of Fame ballot his first year of eligibility. And, I don't even mean just not getting enough votes to make it, he didn't even sniff the ballot.

[Lebron23]

Bump

[kawhileonard2]

Bump

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489748-When-KD-and-Lebron-go-head-to-head
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459570

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495113-Vassilis-Spanoulis-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-s-And-Luka-Doncic-s-Idol-Retired
https://www.espn.com/olympics/wbc2006/news/story?id=2568543

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495940-Lebron-with-Shaq-2nd-round-exit-Giannis-with-Middleton-a-Title

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495955-Giannis-just-blasted-those-who-join-super-teams-in-post-conference-interview

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493982-Devin-Booker-Vs-Lebron-James-who-is-better-currently

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496253-Lebron-won-2-bronze-medals-for-the-United-States-of-America-How

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496256-Lebron-with-Tim-Duncan-Bronze-Medal-in-Olympics-Vince-with-KG-Gold-Medal

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496255-Lebron-with-Carlos-Boozer-No-Playoffs-Deron-Williams-with-Carlos-Boozer-WCF

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496549-Lebron-stacking-the-deck-in-2022-because-he-is-afraid-of-Devin-Booker

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492941-1-Title-in-11-Years-for-the-Franchise-that-you-originally-played-for


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496831-times-when-each-top-10-player-all-time-Lost-when-they-were-expected-to-win

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?486706-Rob-Parker-LeBron-is-the-FFOAT