Is Nikola Jokic already a top 10 center of all time?

[iamgine]

I feel like he already is.

[Axe]

Was able to carry the nuggets to a 2nd seed last year and reach the wcsf in his first postseason appearance until they've bowed out there, which is not pretty bad i suppose.

[Sulico]

He might as well be.
He is VERY good. And the reason I think that is I don't like the rest of Nuggets roster at all, yet results are there.
Old man Millsap is solid, and Jerami Grant is ok too.

But if anybody tells me that trio of Barton, Harry Garys and Jamal Murray worth 70 million per year, I'm putting this person to mental clinic.
Yet Tim Connelly is out there GMing in NBA.

[MrFonzworth]

Absolutely not.

[Akeem34TheDream]

What a weird post.

[iamgine]

Well many already called him the greatest passing center ever so it's not a stretch.

[Axe]

Will the big guy eventually carry the nuggets to 60 wins someday.

[SATAN]

No, he's not.

[Kblaze8855]

Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Moses
Hakeem
David Robinson
Ewing
Reed
Cowens
Mikan
Walton
Zo
Lanier
Dwight
Unseld
Thurmond
Mcadoo
Yao
Parish

Thats 20.

How many you rank him over? He doesn’t have the longevity that usually knocks some of them down. Like how do you put him over Walton for longevity when both have only 2 real superstar seasons and Walton won a title in one and the mvp in the other? Both have another really great year but it’s hard to throw out a ring and mvp in back to back years.

Be a bit of work to get Jokić over a lot of those names with so few years to work with.

[LostCause]

Absolutely not. Center is the deepest position in NBA history. He has a long way to go to crack the Top 10

[Axe]

For a foreign center, I'm not sure if jokic is already better than divac.

[RogueBorg]

For a foreign center, I'm not sure if jokic is already better than divac.

He wasn't even better than young Arvydas Sabonis

[Sulico]

For a foreign center, I'm not sure if jokic is already better than divac.

stats (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=Y&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=bpm&c1comp=gt&c1val=10&c2stat=ws_per_48&c2comp=gt&c2val=0.250&c3stat=mp&c3comp=gt&c3val=100&order_by=pts_per_g#stats::none)

[iamgine]

Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Moses
Hakeem
David Robinson
Ewing
Reed
Cowens
Mikan
Walton
Zo
Lanier
Dwight
Unseld
Thurmond
Mcadoo
Yao
Parish

Thats 20.

How many you rank him over? He doesn’t have the longevity that usually knocks some of them down. Like how do you put him over Walton for longevity when both have only 2 real superstar seasons and Walton won a title in one and the mvp in the other? Both have another really great year but it’s hard to throw out a ring and mvp in back to back years.

Be a bit of work to get Jokić over a lot of those names with so few years to work with.

Well I mean Jokic's not greater than them obviously because he's only played for 5 seasons. But I might take Jokic over some of them.

[RoseCity07]

He's very good but hasn't done anything yet to make him top 10.

[Axe]

stats (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=Y&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=bpm&c1comp=gt&c1val=10&c2stat=ws_per_48&c2comp=gt&c2val=0.250&c3stat=mp&c3comp=gt&c3val=100&order_by=pts_per_g#stats::none)
Thanks dup

[Sulico]

Thanks dup

English is my 3rd language so you'll have to explain to me what the hell does that mean. Is this insult or praise?

[Axe]

English is my 3rd language so you'll have to explain to me what the hell does that mean. Is this insult or praise?
Secret. You'll eventually know it sooner than later. :rolleyes:

[Smook A.]

Not even remotely close. He still has a veryyy long way to go before we can even have this convo

[r0drig0lac]

https://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Edward-Norton-Closing-Laptop.gif?v=2

[Kblaze8855]

Well I mean Jokic's not greater than them obviously because he's only played for 5 seasons. But I might take Jokic over some of them.

That’s a much more reasonable question I suppose. Comes down to straight basketball where Yea....you wouldn’t take Mikan over Jokic. But then you’re asking who had the best maybe 2 year run of ball which still makes it hard because it bumps up some easier to dismiss names like Mcadoo who suffer in the career ranking but we’re all time great briefly.

Jokic vs 08-2011 Dwight? People were making reasonable cases that Dwight was the best player in the nba for a little while there. He was like....a hair behind the Lebron, Wades, and Kobes at one time. Lots of guys like that with one spectacular run that compares to Jokic over 2-3 years.

[Wally450]

Well I mean Jokic's not greater than them obviously because he's only played for 5 seasons. But I might take Jokic over some of them.

So then he's not top 10...

[SouBeachTalents]

OP has some really bad takes :lol I remember he also made a thread saying Jokic was bad in the clutch when he's had the most game winners over the last 2 years

[jayfan]

Is Arvydas Sabonis top 10?



.

[tpols]

Center is by far the most stacked position so no...

kareem
shaq
wilt
russell
moses

^^^ are all in top 15 all time. So it is impossible to insinuate jokic is even close to top 5 C, even though he is really good.

[ArbitraryWater]

OP has some really bad takes :lol I remember he also made a thread saying Jokic was bad in the clutch when he's had the most game winners over the last 2 years

was he who did that?

man cant decide can he

[SouBeachTalents]

was he who did that?

man cant decide can he
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477404-Jokic-is-kinda-useless-in-the-heat-of-the-battle

He literally says in the OP he doesn't watch Jokic at all and that he's bad in the clutch. Now 3 months later he's a top 10 center of all time :oldlol:

[Sakkreth]

He wasn't even better than young Arvydas Sabonis

Jokic is poor man's old Sabonis. The difference is he's slow cause of being out of shape, not injuries/age and the era.

[Sakkreth]

Is Arvydas Sabonis top 10?



.

NBA player? No.
Basketball player? Yes.

[bizil]

LMAO!!!! Peak-prime OR GOAT wise, Jokic isn't top 10 center of all time material. Not even close as of now! BUT in terms of OVERALL OFFENSIVE SKILLSET on the court, he's the most talented center in the league right now. I'm talking his scoring skillset and passing ability as a package. Only a healthy Boogie could trump him in today's league in terms of overall offensive skill level.

BUT he's missing the alpha dog scoring AND interior dominance that Kareem, Wilt, Moses, Dream, Shaq, Ewing, and David bring to the table. So OFFENSIVE SKILLSET wise, he's one of the most talented centers I've seen. BUT in terms of DOMINANCE, he's FRANKLY not close to the legendary centers I named peak-prime wise yet. Or in today's league even an Embid for that matter.

[Smook A.]

Center is by far the most stacked position so no...

kareem
shaq
wilt
russell
moses

^^^ are all in top 15 all time. So it is impossible to insinuate jokic is even close to top 5 C, even though he is really good.

Add Hakeem to that list as well. D-Rob is close to top 15 too. Center is by far the most stacked position ever

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Jokic is an overweight bum

[Akeem34TheDream]

Jokic is an overweight bum

Jokic is an overweight all time great.*

[Lebron23]

No. The Center Position is the most talented and deepest position in nba history.

[Bronbron23]

I feel like he already is.

no, no and hell no. He could be one day though.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Jokic is an overweight all time great.*

He isn't even better than Dwight Howard,think of all the centers you're putting below that scrub.

[Axe]

At least the guy seems pretty humble

[RRR3]

Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Moses
Hakeem
David Robinson
Ewing
Reed
Cowens
Mikan
Walton
Zo
Lanier
Dwight
Unseld
Thurmond
Mcadoo
Yao
Parish

Thats 20.

How many you rank him over? He doesn’t have the longevity that usually knocks some of them down. Like how do you put him over Walton for longevity when both have only 2 real superstar seasons and Walton won a title in one and the mvp in the other? Both have another really great year but it’s hard to throw out a ring and mvp in back to back years.

Be a bit of work to get Jokić over a lot of those names with so few years to work with.
Yeah I don't think Jokic would be ranked over any of those guys and I'm sure there's more centers higher than him all time atm too. He will absolutely pass some of them though. Surprised you didn't list Artis Gilmore, Dikembe Mutombo and Ben Wallace. For more recent players, Marc Gasol is another guy who's currently higher than Jokic all time. Heck, Jokic isn't even the GOAT Nuggets center yet (Dan Issel). Of course he will be pretty soon. Oh, I should mention Jack Sikma as well for guys higher on the all-time center list.

[tontoz]

My first reaction was gtfo but then i realized he is only 24. It is possible that he will eventually be seen as a top 10 center all time but he has a long way to go.

He has certainly gotten off to a strong start. I cant see him ever matching the 8 guys below though:

Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Moses
Hakeem
David Robinson
Ewing

[iamgine]

That’s a much more reasonable question I suppose. Comes down to straight basketball where Yea....you wouldn’t take Mikan over Jokic. But then you’re asking who had the best maybe 2 year run of ball which still makes it hard because it bumps up some easier to dismiss names like Mcadoo who suffer in the career ranking but we’re all time great briefly.

Jokic vs 08-2011 Dwight? People were making reasonable cases that Dwight was the best player in the nba for a little while there. He was like....a hair behind the Lebron, Wades, and Kobes at one time. Lots of guys like that with one spectacular run that compares to Jokic over 2-3 years.
Would you take Mcadoo over Jokic though? How many centers all time would we take over Jokic?

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

You know the center position has fallen off when you got people considering someone like Nikola Jokic as a top 10 center all-time.

[Axe]

The game has truly evolved for centers these days.

[Sulico]

My first reaction was gtfo but then i realized he is only 24. It is possible that he will eventually be seen as a top 10 center all time but he has a long way to go.

He has certainly gotten off to a strong start. I cant see him ever matching the 8 guys below though:

Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Moses
Hakeem
David Robinson
Ewing


Ewing? Really?

At 24 y.o. Jokic rebounding better than Ewing ever did in his career, have MUCH more assists, steals, better TS%, WS/48, BPM, VORP, PER. That's compared to best Ewing seasons.
And even though only things Ewing have over him is scoring (because he just shot more) and blocks, Jokic already is a better scorer in playoffs.

And you don't see Jokic EVER MATCHING Ewing.
ok bro.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Jokic's numbers would go down if he played in Ewing's era,c'mon man.

[SouBeachTalents]

Ewing? Really?

At 24 y.o. Jokic rebounding better than Ewing ever did in his career, have MUCH more assists, steals, better TS%, WS/48, BPM, VORP, PER. That's compared to best Ewing seasons.
And even though only things Ewing have over him is scoring (because he just shot more) and blocks, Jokic already is a better scorer in playoffs.

And you don't see Jokic EVER MATCHING Ewing.
ok bro.
I guess defense just doesn't exist

[RogueBorg]

Ewing? Really?

At 24 y.o. Jokic rebounding better than Ewing ever did in his career, have MUCH more assists, steals, better TS%, WS/48, BPM, VORP, PER. That's compared to best Ewing seasons.
And even though only things Ewing have over him is scoring (because he just shot more) and blocks, Jokic already is a better scorer in playoffs.

And you don't see Jokic EVER MATCHING Ewing.
ok bro.

Patrick Ewing would chew up and spit out that Euro Jokic.

[999Guy]

Most unique player of his era like Hakeem was. But no not even close.

Center is so, so deep. Every decade until the 10’s giant skilled guys dominated the league.

[tontoz]

It is hard to compare guys from different eras. It will always be subjective.

Sulico may have a point though. Maybe Ewing doesn't deserve to be on the 'not passable' list. Thinking back he did settle for jumpers too often which hurt his efficiency. Defensively he was great at times but he wasn't a guy who gave it all every night.

It is easy to forget Jokic is only 24. He is pretty accomplished for his age.

[tpols]

Patrick Ewing would chew up and spit out that Euro Jokic.

jokic might be vlade divac in the 90s.

it was just more a rough and tumble game back then. pat ewing was definitely a spearhead of that era's tone.

it basically became prison ball... a physical fight.

[Bronbron23]

Ewing? Really?

At 24 y.o. Jokic rebounding better than Ewing ever did in his career, have MUCH more assists, steals, better TS%, WS/48, BPM, VORP, PER. That's compared to best Ewing seasons.
And even though only things Ewing have over him is scoring (because he just shot more) and blocks, Jokic already is a better scorer in playoffs.

And you don't see Jokic EVER MATCHING Ewing.
ok bro.
Ewings era was much more physical. The post was especially was extremely physical. Everyone is more sspread put so rebounds are much easier to get now then the 90's where everyone was compacted in the paint. Plus Jokic is a much more finess player and benefits from an era that caters to that style of play. Drop him in the 90's and his numbers and effectiveness decrease somewhat. That said jokic is very good and i fo like him. Cant put him on ewings level yet but its definitely achievable for him to pass him one day

[RogueBorg]

jokic might be vlade divac in the 90s.

it was just more a rough and tumble game back then. pat ewing was definitely a spearhead of that era's tone.

it basically became prison ball... a physical fight.

That's no joke. What's funny was the Knicks were like that because of Pat Riley, the same guy crying about the Pistons beating up his Lakers. I guess he saw the success the Pistons had and tried to emulate it.

[Reggie43]

jokic might be vlade divac in the 90s.

Thought about making a thread about this but in reverse. Would Vlade have a Jokic like impact if he tried to play the same way in the modern nba?

[tpols]

Thought about making a thread about this but in reverse. Would Vlade have a Jokic like impact if he tried to play the same way in the modern nba?

Divac shared all the same traits. He was an incredible passer and skilled player.

when youre in a sea of shaq's, hakeem's, drob's, ewings, zos, etc. its hard to stand out. Conversely, doing so against... gobert and embiid isnt that difficult.

[tontoz]

Divac shared all the same traits. He was an incredible passer and skilled player.

when youre in a sea of shaq's, hakeem's, drob's, ewings, zos, etc. its hard to stand out. Conversely, doing so against... gobert and embiid isnt that difficult.

Dont forget Dikembe. The 90s was a crazy strong decade for centers.

[Reggie43]

Divac shared all the same traits. He was an incredible passer and skilled player.

when youre in a sea of shaq's, hakeem's, drob's, ewings, zos, etc. its hard to stand out. Conversely, doing so against... gobert and embiid isnt that difficult.

Playing in a more physical era and going up against all time great bigs no wonder a lot of skilled bigmen got overshadowed back then.

[NugzFan]

Nope

But he’s a solid #11

[Sulico]

Jokic's numbers would go down if he played in Ewing's era,c'mon man.

Right...

Because 7 foot 270 lb guy with one of the softest touches in the league, outside shot, superhero vision, great durability, great passing and quick hands wouldn't be effective in the era where centers had no other skills other than putting their ass on opponent at try to push them back as much as they can.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GilQsS3oifM

Look at that playoff performance. That's some next level ass-first pushing. Not sure Jokic would be able to do that.

Sure he would have like 10-1 skill advantage and his pass out of double teams would result with an easy basket every time, but in the ass-pushing physicality department he probably lacks baad.

[Reggie43]

Somebody like Anthony Mason also share some of Jokic skills but with better handles and better defense. Mase would have benefited immensely playing with the modern rules and could have played all five positions because he really is that talented.

[iamgine]

Ahem

[FKAri]

Ahem

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477404-Jokic-is-kinda-useless-in-the-heat-of-the-battle

Ahem.

[iamgine]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477404-Jokic-is-kinda-useless-in-the-heat-of-the-battle

Ahem.
Ahem, that still stands, that's how they fell 1-3 twice.

[Bronbron23]

I feel like he already is.

No but he's close. Top 15 probably.