ESPN all time rankings: 40-11

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105681/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-40-11

[Manny98]

Pippen ahead of Barkley and Wade :bowdown::bowdown:

CP3 is way too low btw :facepalm

[Mamba4Life]

So Kobe made it in the Top 11?

What changed where espn ranked him 12th a few years back, and now he moved up to the Top 11?

How the hell can you move UP in ranking post retirement? :roll:

[Bankaii]

Back in 2016 Kobe was behind Oscar and Hakeem. What has he done the past 4 years to elevate past them besides... pass away?
And Steph, KD, and Giannis seem wayyy too high to me this soon.

[Roundball_Rock]

MJ stans going to spent all week dissing Pippen (more than usual) now. :roll:


Back in 2016 Kobe was behind Oscar and Hakeem. What has he done the past 4 years to elevate past them besides... pass away?

Historical evaluation changes. Look at presidential rankings. Guys like Lyndon Johnson and Bush 41 have been moving up in recent years and their record isn't any different than it was in 2005 or 2010.

I suspect Kobe benefited them from being active and his farewell tour, etc.

[ImKobe]

So Kobe made it in the Top 11?

What changed where espn ranked him 12th a few years back, and now he moved up to the Top 11?

How the hell can you move UP in ranking post retirement? :roll:

Boo hoo, Wheels. The 12be meme is dead.

Kobe's top 10 all-time.

[Mamba4Life]

Boo hoo, Wheels. The 12be meme is dead.

Kobe's top 10 all-time.

Didn’t he miss the playoffs the last 4 years of his career including with a team comparable to this years Lakers?

[ImKobe]

Didn’t he miss the playoffs the last 4 years of his career including with a team comparable to this years Lakers?

How many Playoff games has Lebron played as a Laker so far?

[Bankaii]

How many Playoff games has Lebron played as a Laker so far?
If we ignore all context as you are, the same as peak Kobe in 2005.

[ImKobe]

If we ignore all context as you are, the same as peak Kobe in 2005.

Take my response to a troll literally. :facepalm .

[Phoenix]

This list is producing some real eyebrow raisers. For me, Paul is about 10 spots too low. Giannis has had a season for the ages but I feel like that's too high too soon, though I have no doubt that he's trending to end up higher on that list barring injury. Iverson over Isiah? Barkley 6 spots behind Malone? Kawhi over Wade? Scottie's more like 27-30 for me. Steph amd KD number 13 and 14? I just can't go there yet with some of these, but whatever. Redo the list next week and it would be different, even if done by the same people. My rankings shift from time to time so I expect the 'experts' to do the same.

[Bankaii]

Take my response to a troll literally. :facepalm .
Sometimes you’re a really good poster, other times you’re borderline autistic.
Sorry I get it mixed up sometimes.

[Hey Yo]

Curry at 13???




:biggums::biggums:


:roll:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Boo hoo, Wheels. The 12be meme is dead.

Kobe's top 10 all-time.

So you agree LeBron is top 2 when they inevitably rank him 2?

Good to know

Kobe is top 10 on ESPNs list because he died 2 months ago. Congrats

[LostCause]

Still don’t see any consistency in the rankings

I will say KG, Dirk and Admiral seem underrated there though. Giannis rank is a placeholder

[ImKobe]

So you agree LeBron is top 2 when they inevitably rank him 2?

Good to know

Kobe is top 10 on ESPNs list because he died 2 months ago. Congrats

I don't agree with ESPN rankings at all, it's just hilarious how you're melting down over LeSPN rankings. They'll have Lebron as high as possible because that's who's currently the face of their league. He'll be left in the dust like everyone else once his time is over. Jordan's the only ATG who's consistently been ranked in the same spot (1).


Still don’t see any consistency in the rankings

I will say KG, Dirk and Admiral seem underrated there though. Giannis rank is a placeholder


I think D-Rob is actually ranked fairly enough, considering how disappointing his prime was Playofs-wise. Surprised Kawhi's just 25 with how they ranked Curry & Durant. You'd think a 2x DPOY & 2x FMVP would be a top 20 lock, though you could argue that his prime hasn't been long enough to warrant such a high ranking yet.

[Phoenix]

Still don’t see any consistency in the rankings

I will say KG, Dirk and Admiral seem underrated there though. Giannis rank is a placeholder

There never will be, because it's tough to lock down the criteria. Some of these rankings are just invariably going to lead to odd conclusions in some cases, and getting it generally right in others.

[Roundball_Rock]

I can't believe how Kawhi is getting on these lists. How many great seasons has he had at this point?

Curry too high but probably because of his impact on the style of the game.

[Phoenix]

I can't believe how Kawhi is getting on these lists. How many great seasons has he had at this point?

Curry too high but probably because of his impact on the style of the game.

Yeah. Kawhi wasn't really a star until 2015 as far as being an all NBA player. Barely played in 2018. My guess is last year has led to some recently bias. My thing is, as far as 'peak' I feel he's in the top 40 but he hasn't had a top 25 career yet by any means. So maybe it's a projection of where they expect him to be based on what they're expecting out of him over the next 2-3 years, but I think that's a flawed metric *if* that's part of what they're doing.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah. Kawhi wasn't really a star until 2015 as far as being an all NBA player. Barely played in 2018. My guess is last year has led to some recently bias. My thing is, as far as 'peak' I feel he's in the top 40 but he hasn't had a top 25 career yet by any means. So maybe it's a projection of where they expect him to be based on what they're expecting out of him over the next 2-3 years, but I think that's a flawed metric *if* that's part of what they're doing.

Agree with everything. Especially the last part. You can't do history that way. Injuries happen. Dwight Howard circa 2012 looked like he was on his way to a top 50 career and it didn't happen. T Mac. Grant Hill. Rose. And so on.

I think Kawhi has the potential to finish that high but right now he is riding recency bias. If his knees are as bad as "load management" defenders claim, and he lacks longevity, then I can see him sliding back as the recency bias fades. His resume is not close to top 50 but he deserves to be in because of his peak and his elite defense that is Pippen-like but putting him top 25 today is crazy.

[Lebron23]

Still don’t see any consistency in the rankings

I will say KG, Dirk and Admiral seem underrated there though. Giannis rank is a placeholder


I don't agree with ESPN rankings at all, it's just hilarious how you're melting down over LeSPN rankings. They'll have Lebron as high as possible because that's who's currently the face of their league. He'll be left in the dust like everyone else once his time is over. Jordan's the only ATG who's consistently been ranked in the same spot (1).




I think D-Rob is actually ranked fairly enough, considering how disappointing his prime was Playofs-wise. Surprised Kawhi's just 25 with how they ranked Curry & Durant. You'd think a 2x DPOY & 2x FMVP would be a top 20 lock, though you could argue that his prime hasn't been long enough to warrant such a high ranking yet.

LeBron is way better than Kobe. Soon to be a 5thtime nba mvp, 4x finals mvp.

[Phoenix]

Agree with everything. Especially the last part. You can't do history that way. Injuries happen. Dwight Howard circa 2012 looked like he was on his way to a top 50 career and it didn't happen. T Mac. Grant Hill. Rose. And so on.

I think Kawhi has the potential to finish that high but right now he is riding recency bias. If his knees are as bad as "load management" defenders claim, and he lacks longevity, then I can see him sliding back as the recency bias fades. His resume is not close to top 50 but he deserves to be in because of his peak and his elite defense that is Pippen-like but putting him top 25 today is crazy.

And even taking last year on its own merits, I don't think many would pick the Raptors to win that finals with KD and Klay healthy. In fairness, you can only play who's in front of you so kudos for taking advantage of the situation, and he did have a great postseason, but all of these things need some level of context if it's not possible to be entirely objective or judge on a straight line. And I like Kawhi alot but yeah, I can't get onboard with that ranking.

[ImKobe]

LeBron is way better than Kobe. Soon to be a 5thtime nba mvp, 4x finals mvp.

Giannis was the clear MVP favorite so that's a no, and these Playoffs would be a huge asterisk anyway if they're even able to do it.

[Roundball_Rock]

For sure. There are three big flaws I consistently see with how people rate Kawhi:


1) What you mentioned, injuries. If the Warriors aren't decimated (KD, Klay, Cousins) they win the series. Even with KD out the Warriors were on track to win before Klay went down. So how does injury luck make Kawhi a better player?
2) The narrative is "Kawhi carried the Raptors." The available evidence contradicts this. They went 17-5 without him that season (63 win pace). This season they had the third best record in the NBA, better than the Clippers in fact, without him. It is clear the Raptors weren't Kawhi and scrubs.
3) People merge current Kawhi with young Kawhi. When the Spurs won in 14' Duncan got most of the credit on ISH and in the media coverage. Now it is portrayed as Kawhi was the leading figure. In fact Kawhi was a 13/6/2 player back then. He did not make his first all-star team until 2016 (his 5th season).

I think a lot of these will correct over time as the bias fades, though.

[ArbitraryWater]

Pip ahead of Wade


oh there's some mad folks now :D

Pip ahead of Chuck however, cringeworthy...


Curry at 13???




:biggums::biggums:


:roll:

Looks right to me.

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe getting a post-death boost here

[AlternativeAcc.]

Curry at 13 is the biggest joke of all

Jersey sales/popularity reasons

Can't upset those Asian teenagers and little kids, I get it

But he's not even top 50 for real fans

[Whoah10115]

Kobe outside the top 10 is embarrassing.

[petezahut]

Zion should already be number 1

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe outside the top 10 is embarrassing.
:biggums: He's gonna be in their top 10

[Uncle Drew]

Boo hoo, Wheels. The 12be meme is dead.

Kobe's top 10 all-time.

If anything, it's more alive than ever. Pity, posthumous boost? Not a good look.

[Sakkreth]

Curry, Durant too high (both should be below Leonard). Garnett is few spots too high, Barkley and Leonard too low.

[Whoah10115]

:biggums: He's gonna be in their top 10

I somehow read that he made it at 11.

After seeing some of the list yesterday, I shall not be returning to it.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Curry, Durant too high (both should be below Leonard.

I think Kawhi is better than both of them but all time rankings care about longevity too.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Zion should already be number 1

One day my friend. One day.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I don't agree with ESPN rankings at all, it's just hilarious how you're melting down over LeSPN rankings. They'll have Lebron as high as possible because that's who's currently the face of their league. He'll be left in the dust like everyone else once his time is over. Jordan's the only ATG who's consistently been ranked in the same spot (1).

Lol shut up you little fakkit. You're celebrating kobe being top 10 on a list because he died

Keep back peddling bitch

[Roundball_Rock]

Pip ahead of Wade

oh there's some mad folks now :D

Plus Kyrie didn't even make the top 74. :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Lol shut up you little fakkit. You're celebrating kobe being top 10 on a list because he died

Keep back peddling bitch

I'm not celebrating anything, just laughing at you for getting triggered over a random all-time ranking ESPN writers half-assedly released on their website for easy clickbait.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I'm not celebrating anything, just laughing at you for getting triggered over a random all-time ranking ESPN writers half-assedly released on their website for easy clickbait.


Boo hoo, Wheels. The 12be meme is dead.

Kobe's top 10 all-time.
:roll:

[tpols]

James Harden and Giannis ahead of John Havlicek and Jason Kidd lmao...

Scottie Pippen ahead of charles barkley.

Allen Iverson ahead of chris paul, walt frazier, and steve nash.

:roll:

The ONLY thing they got right was Chef > Durant.

Only thing.

[ImKobe]

:roll:

" :rant but but 12be!!! it's only because he died!! :rant "

[AlternativeAcc.]

" :rant but but 12be!!! it's only because he died!! :rant "
It literally is only because he died lmao

Everybody knows this, but you're celebrating it and then back peddling on your own celebration.

That's sad as hell. Too bad kobe is still many spots away from LeBron... not even the most tragic event possible just months prior to the list being made could catapult kobe into GOAT tier discussion

Just gonna have to settle for that number 10 spot out of pity.

It is what it is

[ImKobe]

It literally is only because he died lmao

Everybody knows this, but you're celebrating it and then back peddling on your own celebration.

That's sad as hell. Too bad kobe is still many spots away from LeBron... not even the most tragic event possible just months prior to the list being made could catapult kobe into GOAT tier discussion

Just gonna have to settle for that number 10 spot out of pity.

It is what it is

Imagine melting down this hard over a clickbait article.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Imagine melting down this hard over a clickbait article.
Kobe only cracks top 10 out of pity

I understand the celebration though, watching lebron ranked top 3 on every list imaginable takes its toll

Even if kobe was ranked top 10 just because he died (was ranked 12 by ESPN just 3 years ago... it proves they ranked him higher because of his death), its still a good moment for kobe stans and I respect that

Like I said earlier and I sincerely mean this... congratulations

[ImKobe]

Kobe only cracks top 10 out of pity

I understand the celebration though, watching lebron ranked top 3 on every list imaginable takes its toll

Even if kobe was ranked top 10 just because he died (was ranked 12 by ESPN just 3 years ago... it proves they ranked him higher because of his death), its still a good moment for kobe stans and I respect that

Like I said earlier and I sincerely mean this... congratulations

So why do other players change spots on this list? Is Kobe the only player climbing the list after retirement? The guys who made the previous list aren't the ones doing this one. I don't understand why you're taking this so hard lol.

[AlternativeAcc.]

So why do other players change spots on this list? Is Kobe the only player climbing the list after retirement? The guys who made the previous list aren't the ones doing this one. I don't understand why you're taking this so hard lol.
Stop playing dumb man. If you don't think Kobe getting murked in a copter crash months before an ESPN list comes out affects these nerds lists... then I've got a bridge to sell you with your name on it

And I don't give a shit either way. Lebron fans don't need this list for validation

But don't get mad when people point out that kobe only made top 10 out of pity in light of his tragedy

There was even a hard-core kobe fan who admitted they were glad kobe died because it would boost his alltime ranking. Dont act like this doesn't affect peoples rankings, especially just a few months after said tragedy

[ImKobe]

Stop playing dumb man. If you don't think Kobe getting murked in a copter crash months before an ESPN list comes out affects these nerds lists... then I've got a bridge to sell you with your name on it

And I don't give a shit either way. Lebron fans don't need this list for validation

But don't get mad when people point out that kobe only made top 10 out of pity in light of his tragedy

There was even a hard-core kobe fan who admitted they were glad kobe died because it would boost his alltime ranking. Dont act like this doesn't affect peoples rankings, especially just a few months after said tragedy

Him dying years after his retirement has nothing to do with his all-time ranking. He was already getting more love in terms of all-time ranking post-retirement and I haven't really seen people's opinions change after his death. Those who hated him still do. Fans have voted him over Lebron in public polls for years now.

https://www.espn.com/sportsnation/story/_/id/20227321/sportsnation-how-rank-lebron-james-kobe-bryant

[Smook A.]

This list sucks.

- CP3 should be higher
- Wayy too early to have Giannis in the top 30. Yes he's basically a two time MVP but he's only had 3 superstar seasons so far
- How is Kawhi already above Wade
- How the hell is Pippen above Wade and Barkley. He's way too high
- Curry should be in the 15-20 range
- Hakeem over Oscar

[AlternativeAcc.]

Him dying years after his retirement has nothing to do with his all-time ranking. He was already getting more love in terms of all-time ranking post-retirement and I haven't really seen people's opinions change after his death. Those who hated him still do. Fans have voted him over Lebron in public polls for years now.

https://www.espn.com/sportsnation/story/_/id/20227321/sportsnation-how-rank-lebron-james-kobe-bryant
You cited one random ass espn fan poll for proof of what exactly? That you have to cherry pick random fan polls to feel better about the fact that lebron is ranked 8-12 spots higher than kobe on every credible list in existence?

Nice..

:roll:

Kobe was barely getting top 10 love in 2010-2011 at the peak of his value

Meanwhile LeBron gets ranked 1, 2, or 3 on every real list that comes out

The concensus is out. And no random fan poll or rank it website voted on by retards can change the reality

It is what it is

Enjoy the minor boost kobe gets from dying on a mountain

[LAmbruh]

Disrespectful

Kobe literally had to die to finally crack a top 10 list

Shame on you ESPN for using his death to prop him up

[AlternativeAcc.]

Disrespectful

Kobe literally had to die to finally crack a top 10 list

Shame on you ESPN for using his death to prop him up

Truly pathetic and shameful on their part but as you can see they accomplished their goal. Kobe fans doing cartwheels in here

[ImKobe]

You cited one random ass espn fan poll for proof of what exactly? That you have to cherry pick random fan polls to feel better about the fact that lebron is ranked 8-12 spots higher than kobe on every credible list in existence?

Nice..

:roll:

Kobe was barely getting top 10 love in 2010-2011 at the peak of his value

Meanwhile LeBron gets ranked 1, 2, or 3 on every real list that comes out

The concensus is out. And no random fan poll or rank it website voted on by retards can change the reality

It is what it is

Enjoy the minor boost kobe gets from dying on a mountain

Damn, you're getting angrier with each reply.

What deems a list credible, exactly?

[bizil]

I'm CONVINCED that many of us on this site could come up with a better top 74 list! They are SO OFF on many of these rankings that u can't take it seriously!! GOAT list factors solo accolades, team accolades, peak-prime value, numbers, longevity being great, and overall impact of the league (redefining a position, causing rules changes, popularizing a new move, being a face of the league, etc.) as a package. I don't get how ESPN NEVER seems to get this right!

It's a combo of ALL these factors. So when u look at it like this, NO WAY does Nash deserve to be ranked ahead of Isiah! Zeke has more team accolades, had more longevity being a great player, was better peak-prime wise, has more impressive career numbers in many respects, and was MORE REVOLUTIONARY a PG than Nash was. Zeke amped up the shit Tiny in the 70's used to do in terms of speed, strength, scoring skillset, etc. And Zeke was truly one of the top 5 faces of the league at one point in time.

So LITERALLY in all the categories I pointed out, Zeke has the edge on Nash. Nash is a top 10 GOAT PG! And BEFORE Steph combined shooting, handles, and passing better than any player ever. So in his own way, he did put a new twist on the PG position. BUT GOAT or peak-prime wise, Zeke was the superior player!!

[AlternativeAcc.]

Damn, you're getting angrier with each reply.

What deems a list credible, exactly?
Ad hom number 2! https://youtu.be/Py1VE4A5g_c

Anyways..

Lists that are made by credible individuals and organizations usually get the green light. Obviously there's no universal standard of credibility when it comes to judging athletes' careers. But of course you're asking stupid questions to deflect

What we do know is that random fan polls and rank it sites are the least credible measures of all. These sites typically have allen Iverson and other massively popular stars ranked far higher than they should be. Everybody knows this. But here you are citing random fan polls and asking stupid questions because you have literally nothing else :roll:

[ImKobe]

Ad hom number 2! https://youtu.be/Py1VE4A5g_c

Anyways..

Lists that are made by credible individuals and organizations usually get the green light. Obviously there's no universal standard of credibility when it comes to judging athletes' careers. But of course you're asking stupid questions to deflect

What we do know is that random fan polls and rank it sites are the least credible measures of all. These sites typically have allen Iverson and other massively popular stars ranked far higher than they should be. Everybody knows this. But here you are citing random fan polls and asking stupid questions because you have literally nothing else :roll:

But I'm supposed to believe that this ESPN all-time ranking is credible, when you just told me that they ranked him unfairly due to his untimely death? Doesn't that make this list a biased sack of shit as well?

[AlternativeAcc.]

But I'm supposed to believe that this ESPN all-time ranking is credible, when you just told me that they ranked him unfairly due to his untimely death? Doesn't that make this list a biased sack of shit as well?

ESPN isn't all that credible

The list has too much garbage, and I've never thought of ESPN as being much of a credible source for all time rankings

You were the one celebrating kobe being top 10, not me

[Naero]

They've obviously overranked Durant, Curry, Kawhi, and other modern superstars, and it shouldn't be that shocking. They overvalue today's players because:

1. Presentistic bias.

People—even many pundits—are naturally more impressionable to who they can watch live as opposed to who they can only research. It's much more captivating to watch a player write their own career story before your eyes than it is to skim Wikipedia, Basketball-Reference, and highlight reels for already-established ATGs.

2. Controversy.

Sometimes, they make deliberately off-the-wall rankings just to stimulate arguments like these, and who better to target than today's players—the most renowned? It wouldn't be nearly as buzzworthy if all the rankings were reasonable.

It's for these reasons that I'll take their modern-player rankings with a fistful of salt. They won't be ready to evaluate them more objectively until decades from now when they're retired and the hype's defueled; by then, they might even downrank some of these players despite their further accomplishments.

ESPN is far from reputable for these lists, but they know their audience and cater to them well—and that'll always be more valuable to them than logic and substance. Whenever you complain about bad journalism, remember that much of it stems from bad readership.

[Phoenix]

Damn, AlternativeAcc/mod burner account #42 getting his diaper changed in front of everyone

Tears and piss flying alike, this is sad

[tpols]

ESPN isn't all that credible

The list has too much garbage, and I've never thought of ESPN as being much of a credible source for all time rankings

You were the one celebrating kobe being top 10, not me

Can you retards take your beef outside instead of jacking the whole thread? thanks in advance.

The adults are trying to have a conversation.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Can you retards take your beef outside instead of jacking the whole thread? thanks in advance.

The adults are trying to have a conversation.
Nobody takes you seriously small fry

Appreciate the temper tantrum though

[Doranku]

Stop playing dumb man. If you don't think Kobe getting murked in a copter crash months before an ESPN list comes out affects these nerds lists... then I've got a bridge to sell you with your name on it

And I don't give a shit either way. Lebron fans don't need this list for validation

But don't get mad when people point out that kobe only made top 10 out of pity in light of his tragedy

There was even a hard-core kobe fan who admitted they were glad kobe died because it would boost his alltime ranking. Dont act like this doesn't affect peoples rankings, especially just a few months after said tragedy

It doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, Kobe is either #10 or #11. Hakeem is the only other one that has an argument for the 10th spot.

[AlternativeAcc.]

It doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, Kobe is either #10 or #11. Hakeem is the only other one that has an argument for the 10th spot.
I have West and Dr. J. ahead of Kobe

You can disagree but don't act like it's not debatable

Plus Durant already has an argument too

[Nowoco]

Pippen at #21?

Steph ahead of KD?

Cut it out.

[RRR3]

Gonna be some real meltdowns if Kobe gets ranked higher than 10th lol.

[r0drig0lac]

I have West and Dr. J. ahead of Kobe

You can disagree but don't act like it's not debatable

Plus Durant already has an argument too

over Kobe? why?

[AlternativeAcc.]

over Kobe? why?

His best 8 years are better than Kobes and he's a far better finals performer

Longevity is the only thing giving kobe an edge, KD still has several years left in the tank

[Jacks3]

People losing their minds because Kobe moved up (probably) two whole spots. lmao.

[Gimmedarock]

I didn’t think the list was bad. Current guys could be higher but their legacy is set yet. I thought KD & Curry we’re low but I think they’ll move up in 5 to 10 years. Giannis is about right but he’s got a lot of time to move up. I did think Harden was a little low. Not a bad list though.

[Lebron23]

Kobe would be rank as the 8th best player of all time the way espn is ranking these players.

[LostCause]

People losing their minds because Kobe moved up (probably) two whole spots. lmao.

Dude is legit melting down over this, lol

www.insidehoops.com/forum/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=479943

[LeCroix]

So Kobe made it in the Top 11?

What changed where espn ranked him 12th a few years back, and now he moved up to the Top 11?

How the hell can you move UP in ranking post retirement? :roll:

because of his death I think

also got guys like KD and Kawhi and Curry that will pass him soon. he will be a fringe to 20 guy like Scottie Pippen soon

Scotttie is #21 right now

[LeCroix]

how tf is Dr J top 15?

dude has 1 fmvp and only had one nba season scoring above 24.7 ppg :lol i get he is good but top 15?

[iamgine]

Barkley has gone down so far. I remember people used to rank him around 12-15 ish.

[DoctorP]

Dirk over Garnett. Can't disagree there but Dirk should be over Malone too.

[SpaceJam]

So Pippen is ranked higher than most 90's teams FIRST option? :biggums:

90's Bulls stacked beyond belief

[LAmbruh]

So Pippen is ranked higher than most 90's teams FIRST option? :biggums:

90's Bulls stacked beyond belief

so stacked :biggums:

[GimmeThat]

I feel like someone here would go and eat a Koala Bear and start another virus

[Lebron23]

how tf is Dr J top 15?

dude has 1 fmvp and only had one nba season scoring above 24.7 ppg :lol i get he is good but top 15?

Maybe they included his accomplishments in the ABA.

[ImKobe]

So Pippen is ranked higher than most 90's teams FIRST option? :biggums:

90's Bulls stacked beyond belief

Wade & Shaq ranked ahead of Pippen doe.

[Doranku]

I have West and Dr. J. ahead of Kobe

You can disagree but don't act like it's not debatable

Plus Durant already has an argument too

I'll give you West and Dr. J since they were revolutionary players who set the stage for those that came after them.

But Durant? Nah. Durant needed a 73 win team to win anything. 2 MVPs weren't enough. He needed an entire team that was functional without him to be successful. Before he joined Golden State, he was Alex English.

Two rings with the GOAT team (a team that KD had no part in building/leading) doesn't boost Alex English 2.0 to top 10 status.

[97 bulls]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105681/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-40-11

I told you guys Pippen would ranked over Wade when it's all said and done waaaayyyyy back in 2011. I said once they're careers are over Pippen would be considered higher. :pimp:

[97 bulls]

I'll give you West and Dr. J since they were revolutionary players who set the stage for those that came after them.

But Durant? Nah. Durant needed a 73 win team to win anything. 2 MVPs weren't enough. He needed an entire team that was functional without him to be successful. Before he joined Golden State, he was Alex English.

Two rings with the GOAT team (a team that KD had no part in building/leading) doesn't boost Alex English 2.0 to top 10 status.

I 100 percent agree

[Roundball_Rock]

Wade & Shaq ranked ahead of Pippen doe.

Wade is behind Pippen. Pippen is 21, Wade 26.

Where is Kyrie Irving on this list BTW? :lol

[AlternativeAcc.]

I'll give you West and Dr. J since they were revolutionary players who set the stage for those that came after them.

But Durant? Nah. Durant needed a 73 win team to win anything. 2 MVPs weren't enough. He needed an entire team that was functional without him to be successful. Before he joined Golden State, he was Alex English.

Two rings with the GOAT team (a team that KD had no part in building/leading) doesn't boost Alex English 2.0 to top 10 status.
Probably one of the worst takes I've ever seen

Destroyed whatever credibility you had in 1 post, nice job

[Doranku]

Probably one of the worst takes I've ever seen

Destroyed whatever credibility you had in 1 post, nice job


Shut up retard you don't even know who Alex English is.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Shut up retard you don't even know who Alex English is.

I definitely do that its why its the worst take I've ever seen. Alex English is barely a top 80 all time player

And earlier in this thread you said kobe is guarenteed 10 with nobody else having an argument

You clearly know nothing, zero credibility

[Goalgoalabc]

Pippen ahead of Barkley and Wade :bowdown::bowdown:

CP3 is way too low btw :facepalm

Why not? Pippen should be ranked top 20

[SpaceJam]

Wade & Shaq ranked ahead of Pippen doe.

No Irving, Love or Bosh but Gasol there doe

[Whoah10115]

I 100 percent agree

I love Scottie. One of the greatest players. But don't think he's ahead of Wade, and Wade will be ranked over him by the end. This list isn't serious.

The "Immortal Six" plus LeBron and Kobe. If people sneak in Oscar or West then I can get it. Other contemporaries make 0 sense. That includes Duncan.

Also, Dirk is great but Barkley, Duncan, KG and Malone are greater. Barkley is definitely the best player but if you have him behind any of them I get it. Malone was his direct contemporary so easy to choose Barkley, but impossible to ignore that Malone has maybe the most ridiculous prime ever, as far as how great he was at the beginning and how great he was at the end of it.

[Roundball_Rock]

impossible to ignore that Malone has maybe the most ridiculous prime ever, as far as how great he was at the beginning and how great he was at the end of it.

After Kareem. :D

Different players have different issues. With Wade his lack of durability puts him lower on these lists than his talent level would suggest. KG and Barkley were better than Dirk and Malone prime versus prime but longevity reverses the outcome.

If the criteria is if you are doing an all-time draft and know nothing about team circumstances but simply get that player's career than longevity and durability have to be factors because both affect your chances of winning.


I love Scottie. One of the greatest players. But don't think he's ahead of Wade, and Wade will be ranked over him by the end

It is possible. Wade recently retired so we have to wait 20+ years for the historical judgment to settle on him. So he may move up. Regarding Pippen, though, the verdict is in: he is consistently top 20-30 on these lists and if anything he moved up slightly as time elapsed.

[Whoah10115]

After Kareem. :D

Different players have different issues. With Wade his lack of durability puts him lower on these lists than his talent level would suggest. KG and Barkley were better than Dirk and Malone prime versus prime but longevity reverses the outcome.

If the criteria is if you are doing an all-time draft and know nothing about team circumstances but simply get that player's career than longevity and durability have to be factors because both affect your chances of winning.



It is possible. Wade recently retired so we have to wait 20+ years for the historical judgment to settle on him. So he may move up. Regarding Pippen, though, the verdict is in: he is consistently top 20-30 on these lists and if anything he moved up slightly as time elapsed.


The second thing reflects off the trolling tho.

The first part, Malone's is more ridiculous. Because he's as good at the end of it as he is at the beginning. He may be better in 2000 than he was in 1988.

Kareem is probably the FMVP in 85, but he isn't a better player at that point than in 1971.

[Roundball_Rock]

The first part, Malone's is more ridiculous. Because he's as good at the end of it as he is at the beginning. He may be better in 2000 than he was in 1988.

Kareem is probably the FMVP in 85, but he isn't a better player at that point than in 1971.

2000 was Malone's 15th season. It was his last top 5 MVP finish (his last all-NBA 1st team was 1999).

Kareem was all-NBA first team and top 5 in MVP voting in 1986, his 17th season.

The main difference between their longevity is the levels they maintained. Kareem was the best player for a full decade, then a top 5 player for a couple years, then a top 10 player for several more. Malone was never the best player, was a top 5 player for a long time and then maintained as a top 10 guy for several more seasons.

Your argument is Malone being consistent at a lower level is better because he arguably was the same in 2000 as in his fourth season. That penalizes Kareem for reaching a much higher level in his prime.

[Whoah10115]

Your argument is Malone being consistent at a lower level is better because he arguably was the same in 2000 as in his fourth season. That penalizes Kareem for reaching a much higher level in his prime.


How am I penalizing? Especially when the word I keep falling back on is ridiculous? It's ridiculous that someone can be as good a month before his 37th birthday, as he was at 25.

It's relative. It's amazing that someone can keep their level that literally.

[Lebron23]

Jeff needs to merge all of these threads

[Shooter]

Pippen ahead of Barkley and Wade :bowdown::bowdown:

CP3 is way too low btw :facepalm

+1


CP3 is top 30

[SATAN]

Why do people actually care what ESPN puppets think? They compile list after list in order to have something to argue about on tv. It in turn gets fans arguing with each other. It's not even remotely interesting anymore. You're allowed to have your own favorites and just enjoy the game of basketball.

[Lebron23]

Isiah Thomas is getting underrated by Espn
Stockton, Iverson, and Nash were ranked over him

[Roundball_Rock]

Isiah Thomas is getting underrated by Espn
Stockton, Iverson, and Nash were ranked over him

It depends on the criteria people are using. You can see why Stockton, Nash could go ahead of him: Isiah had terrible longevity. Isiah was retired at 30 or 31. Iverson's longevity wasn't great but he had a MVP peak.

Isiah was the best player of the group IMO but for a "GOAT" list versus a "BOAT" list I can see why some people would have him lower.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Curry isn't above Kawhi, go fu*k yourself. Kawhi has higher playoff VORP, higher playoff win shares, 2 more finals MVPS and eliminated Curry two different years.

[ThatCoolKid]

I don't see how someone could rank Iverson or Jason Kidd over CP3. I think CP3 was better than Steve Nash, but I can at least respect someone choosing Nash over CP3.

[ThatCoolKid]

Curry isn't above Kawhi, go fu*k yourself. Kawhi has higher playoff VORP, higher playoff win shares, 2 more finals MVPS and eliminated Curry two different years.

Kawhi has a very high peak, but less longevity. Curry has 2 more MVPs, 1 more championship and was the engine behind the greatest team of all time that made 5 straight finals.

[Gohan]

If iverson is not too 20 this list has no credibility. It’s like taking lebron out of the top 10

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi has a very high peak, but less longevity. Curry has 2 more MVPs, 1 more championship and was the engine behind the greatest team of all time that made 5 straight finals.

Kawhi has more VORP/win shares in career playoffs, how is that less longevity you idiot.

Kawhi also is tied with Curry in regular seasons as a top 5 MVP candidate (3).

[ThatCoolKid]

Kawhi has more VORP/win shares in career playoffs, how is that less longevity you idiot.

Kawhi also is tied with Curry in regular seasons as a top 5 MVP candidate (3).

Kawhi has 4 seasons above 20 ppg. That's what I mean by longevity. He was considered a role player, albeit an elite one for a significant portion of his career. Offensive value for a superstar is more important than defensive value.

Kawhi has played in 12 more playoff games than Curry. He does have very impressive advanced statistics in the playoffs.

Finishing top 5 in MVP voting is much less impressive than winning twice. Curry also had probably close to the greatest MVP regular season in 2016. Kawhi was never close to winning an MVP, his closest year was when Curry was unanimous MVP.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi has 4 seasons above 20 ppg. That's what I mean by longevity. He was considered a role player, albeit an elite one for a significant portion of his career. Offensive value for a superstar is more important than defensive value.

Kawhi has played in 12 more playoff games than Curry. He does have very impressive advanced statistics in the playoffs.

Finishing top 5 in MVP voting is much less impressive than winning twice. Curry also had probably close to the greatest MVP regular season in 2016. Kawhi was never close to winning an MVP, his closest year was when Curry was unanimous MVP.

That's like saying bill Russell was a role player because he didn't average 20PPG. Kawhi still led spurs in many advanced stats during 2014 reg season and playoffs.

Curry is the one who had the same damn supporting cast his entire career (klay/Dray/Iggy + MVP Durant. Yet curry is the one with inferior VORP/win shares vs Kawhi? That shows how inferior Curry is to Kawhi as a playoff performer.

Curry's regular season is also not an argument because he's tied with Kawhi for three different top 5 mvp seasons.

Curry has also never eliminated kawhi when he was healthy in 2013 or 2019, only when Kawhi was injured in 2017.

There's literally zero argument for Curry besides he likes to dance more I guess hahhaha

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Stephen Pippen where's your finals MVPS

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi was also playing 40 minutes a game (team leader) when he eliminated curry in 2013.

2019 kawhi won finals MVP over Curry.

Curry is basically 1 more playoff elimination from being Kawhi's career bi*ch

[Roundball_Rock]

Where is Kyrie Irving? He isn't top 40 all-time? The way people talk about him you would think he is easily top 20 and he didn't crack the top 74. :confusedshrug:

[jlip]

Top 10-1
This was completed back in May.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105801/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-10-1

[Lebron23]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105681/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-40-11

3ball probably meltdown when he saw Pippen at 21.