Who had similar offensive impact to Magic? Overall, where do you rate him ALL TIME?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Twofold question...

So...whose comparable to the "Magic Man"? We know he had incredible offensive impact, and orchestrated some of the greatest teams ever. Likewise, where does he stack up all-time. Overall?

Some notable playoff runs;

'85: 18/15/7 on 60%TS
'86: 22/15/7 on 60%TS
'87: 22/12/8 on 61%TS
'90: 25/13/6 on 60%TS
'91: 22/13/8 on 60%TS

TWO of those five playoff runs, Magic still holds the record for playoff assists. The other three are in the top 10.

[Kblaze8855]

Within the confines of the situation he played....Magic was about as effective as anyone in their situation other than Russell(who was too great a leap in defensive ability and attention to chemistry to contend with at the time). He’s on the short list of guys I won’t argue about no matter who you rank him over. He’s not my GOAT but he’s high enough not to fight about as are about 5 other people.

[Phoenix]

Steph was making guys sweat the moment he reached half-court. That kind of offensive gravity has to have him factored somewhere in this conversation.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Steph was making guys sweat the moment he reached half-court. That kind of offensive gravity has to have him factored somewhere in this conversation.

Lol real talk. Curry is probably the heir apparent. Not in style but definitely in impact. Or 'gravity' as you put it.

Kblaze that's a good point. It also speaks to Magic as a teammate. And leader.

[Whoah10115]

I suppose Nash in Phoenix is the obvious answer. And also Kidd on New Jersey.

Tho, looking back, the Nets were not any good. Marbury didn't play like a great player there, but hard to argue he let them down. That they won 40 games was impressive..52 and the Finals is unbelievable.

They had guys who could play, but other than Van Horn no one who could really get it himself..and Van Horn was clearly shaken by Martin.

Kittles could get his own, but had physical issues at times and wasn't beyond a 3rd option.

[FKAri]

Paging Stephonit...

[AlternativeAcc.]

Lol real talk. Curry is probably the heir apparent. Not in style but definitely in impact. Or 'gravity' as you put it.

Kblaze that's a good point. It also speaks to Magic as a teammate. And leader.

Real talk what?

Warriors didn't become a championship contender until Klay and Dray took the next step and Iggy was signed. That's a fact.

Comparing stephs mythical impact to magic or lebron is the stupidest casual fan bullshit I've ever seen.

[3ball]

.
Magic + KAJ/Worthy/Scott = two #1 offenses (115.6 peak ortg)

Jordan + Pippen/Kukoc = four #1 offenses (115.5)


So MJ had goat impact on an offense



(edit: replace Kukoc with Grant for half the rings)

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Real talk what?

Warriors didn't become a championship contender until Klay and Dray took the next step and Iggy was signed. That's a fact.

Comparing stephs mythical impact to magic or lebron is the stupidest casual fan bullshit I've ever seen.

Yeah, and Lebron didn't become a champion until he joined Wade.

Jordan didn't until Pippen and Grant were drafted...

Here we are talking about offense and you bring up "Iggy". Groundbreaking stuff, Waldo.

[Axe]

Real talk what?

Warriors didn't become a championship contender until Klay and Dray took the next step and Iggy was signed. That's a fact.

Comparing stephs mythical impact to magic or lebron is the stupidest casual fan bullshit I've ever seen.
You mean basketball is not a team sport at all?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yeah, and Lebron didn't become a champion until he joined Wade.

Jordan didn't until Pippen and Grant were drafted...

Here we are talking about offense and you bring up "Iggy". Groundbreaking stuff, Waldo.

Warriors didn't become an elite offensive team until Klays third season when he took his biggest leap, and coincidentally the 1st year Iggy played for the team

Before that they were bottom tier offense led by Steph and his glass ankles

That magic impact though :oldlol:

Klay and Iggy were always more important to the Warrioes success. Only casuals don't understand this

[Manny98]

Nash spearheaded the greatest offenses in NBA history so I would say him

The top 4 would be (not in order)

Nash
Curry
LeBron
Magic

[AlternativeAcc.]

Nash spearheaded the greatest offenses in NBA history so I would say him

That's a great mention

Best playmaker outside of Magic, elite shooter, elite decision maker

Hes so much better than curry its not remotely funny. Nashs cerebral was just on a totally different level

[Lebron23]

Nash spearheaded the greatest offenses in NBA history so I would say him

The top 4 would be (not in order)

Nash
Curry
LeBron
Magic

Lebron winning 60 and 66 games with mo williams as a 2nd scoring option.

[Axe]

Warriors didn't become an elite offensive team until Klays third season when he took his biggest leap, and coincidentally the 1st year Iggy played for the team

Before that they were bottom tier offense led by Steph and his glass ankles

That magic impact though :oldlol:

Klay and Iggy were always more important to the Warrioes success. Only casuals don't understand this
And then there's also the 'overrated' steve kerr leading these folks to 3 chips in 5 years

[AlternativeAcc.]

And then there's also the 'overrated' steve kerr leading these folks to 3 chips in 5 years
Indeed, Kerrs impact gets overlooked

Curry always gets way too much credit than he actually deserves. They were dog shit until klay and dray developed and iggy joined

As we know, offensive impact isn't just ppg. Only casuals think because curry scored the most (because he did the least dirty work) that = most impact. In this case its just not true

[AlternativeAcc.]

Lebron winning 60 and 66 games with mo williams as a 2nd scoring option.

Lol manny is trolling.

Nobody thinks curry has more offensive impact than LeBron

[Axe]

Indeed, Kerrs impact gets overlooked

Curry always gets way too much credit than he actually deserves. They were dog shit until klay and dray developed and iggy joined

As we know, offensive impact isn't just ppg. Only casuals think because curry scored the most (because he did the least dirty work) that = most impact. In this case its just not true
Aside from the 3-point shooting hype and his two-straight mvp seasons, i don't think there is anything significant about him.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Aside from the 3-point shooting hype and his two-straight mvp seasons, i don't think there is anything significant about him.

Agreed

Steph benefited from a perfect storm of players who dramatically minimized his weaknesses (many) and greatly maximized his ONLY strength (shooting)

There's no other combination of players that benefits Curry the same way klay, dray, and iggy did. And of course they had a deep bench and were well coached, which further added to the illusion that curry was an MVP caliber player.

In hindsight its actually quite amazing how much had to go right for curry to be considered a top 3 player in the league

I'll say he's the luckiest player in history, and there's not really a close 2nd.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Comparable offensive players:

2017/2019 Kawhi Leonard
1988-1998 Michael Jordan
2009-2018 Lebron James
2000-2002 Shaq

And that's it for me. The only thing that drops Magic in all time rankings is his defense. The offense of magic is top 5 no doubt.

[RRR3]

Comparable offensive players:

2017/2019 Kawhi Leonard
1988-1998 Michael Jordan
2009-2018 Lebron James
2000-2002 Shaq

And that's it for me. The only thing that drops Magic in all time rankings is his defense. The offense of magic is top 5 no doubt.
Um...Curry????

Surprised you have Kawhi there over guys like Bird, KD, Dirk, CP3, Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, Nash, etc.

[Whoah10115]

The Kawhi mention is shockingly stupid. They improved, sure, but they'd won 59 the year prior, maybe 57 the year before that and had I think four straight 50win seasons, preceeded by 49 wins.

And they didn't go night akd like day offensively. They simply became better.

In fact, they dropped in both points for and against, in both ORTG and DRTG.

So dumb pick is dumb.

[AlternativeAcc.]

The Kawhi mention is shockingly stupid. They improved, sure, but they'd won 59 the year prior, maybe 57 the year before that and had I think four straight 50win seasons, preceeded by 49 wins.

And they didn't go night akd like day offensively. They simply became better.

In fact, they dropped in both points for and against, in both ORTG and DRTG.

So dumb pick is dumb.

Yeah if you're gonna include someone from this Era other than LeBron its Durant and its not close.

[tpols]

in terms of offensive orchestration directly enhancing teammates on court?

magic, bird, curry, nash, and stockton are in a league of their own.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Um...Curry????

Surprised you have Kawhi there over guys like Bird, KD, Dirk, CP3, Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, Nash, etc.

I put a lot of stock in playoff performance and Curry was very suspect in the 2016 finals and 2019 2nd round.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The Kawhi mention is shockingly stupid. They improved, sure, but they'd won 59 the year prior, maybe 57 the year before that and had I think four straight 50win seasons, preceeded by 49 wins.

And they didn't go night akd like day offensively. They simply became better.

In fact, they dropped in both points for and against, in both ORTG and DRTG.

So dumb pick is dumb.

Playoffs is what matters most. Bulls in 1994 won 55 games without Jordan but everybody knows they were still not a great team. 2018 Raptors\1994 bulls both couldn't win a game past the 2nd round. Once Jordan\Kawhi arrived they had historic playoff runs.

[tpols]

I put a lot of stock in playoff performance and Curry was very suspect in the 2016 finals and 2019 2nd round.

dumb way to look at things.

Lebron was very "suspect" in 2011 more than curry's ever been. '07, '08, '10, and '14 as well.

Kobe was "suspect" in 2004.

Magic was suspect when he incurred the nickname "tragic johnson" in 1984.

Shaq was suspect when he got swept out the playoffs for 6 years in his prime. Ditto Kareem in the 70s.

I swear... chef is the only player in history to have his whole career slighted for 1 bad series.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

dumb way to look at things.

Lebron was very "suspect" in 2011 more than curry's ever been. '07, '08, '10, and '14 as well.

Kobe was "suspect" in 2004.

Magic was suspect when he incurred the nickname "tragic johnson" in 1984.

Shaq was suspect when he got swept out the playoffs for 6 years in his prime. Ditto Kareem in the 70s.

I swear... chef is the only player in history to have his whole career slighted for 1 bad series.

Most of those guys you named have proved themselves in other big series when they were the clear cut guys (Shaq 2000 or 2002 or Magic 87). I don't feel Curry has ever done that in his career.

2015 - Curry gets a cakewalk in finals with no Irving or Love. Also avoids defending champs
2016 - Curry chokes
2017\2018 - Curry gets Durant on his team and no series is even close
2019 - Curry sucks in the 2nd round and in finals game 6 sucks again on his own home court

Curry also plays no defense, so when his offense falls his entire game falls and that may be why he gets more criticism than other all-time greats.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Most of those guys you named have proved themselves in other big series when they were the clear cut guys (Shaq 2000 or 2002 or Magic 87). I don't feel Curry has ever done that in his career.

2015 - Curry gets a cakewalk in finals with no Irving or Love. Also avoids defending champs
2016 - Curry chokes
2017\2018 - Curry gets Durant on his team and no series is even close
2019 - Curry sucks in the 2nd round and in finals game 6 sucks again on his own home court

Curry also plays no defense, so when his offense falls his entire game falls and that may be why he gets more criticism than other all-time greats.

Great post, very accurate

2015 not only was a cakewalk facing all injured teams in the playoffs, but curry also failed to receive a single FMVP vote. Iggy was making all the momentum shots while steph stat-padded in garbage time like he's done his entire career

Once Durant came along, Durant was the guy hitting all the momentum shots with the games in the balance while steph once again padded his numbers when games were out of reach, like he's done his entire career


Curry plays no defense, is below average playmaker for a PG, and a horrible decision maker in important situations


He's the most one-dimensional 'MVP' in NBA history

[Stephonit]

Most of those guys you named have proved themselves in other big series when they were the clear cut guys (Shaq 2000 or 2002 or Magic 87). I don't feel Curry has ever done that in his career.

2015 - Curry gets a cakewalk in finals with no Irving or Love. Also avoids defending champs
2016 - Curry chokes
2017\2018 - Curry gets Durant on his team and no series is even close
2019 - Curry sucks in the 2nd round and in finals game 6 sucks again on his own home court

Curry also plays no defense, so when his offense falls his entire game falls and that may be why he gets more criticism than other all-time greats.

Another more valid interpretation:

2015 - Defeats all other First Team All-NBA players en route to a championship with a roster of conference finals first-timers.
2016 - After an injury, knocks out the two closest MVPs in time to him in the conference finals before losing a tight 7 game finals that saw the league intervene to save that lesser player who always needs more help to accomplish anything.
2017/2018 - When teamed up with a fellow all-timer dominates the league in such thorough fashion as to be considered the best team of all-time with only half-hearted complaints to the contrary. Since this is a thread about Magic I'll also mention no one even seriously tries comparing the Showtime Lakers to this team.
2019 - Loses fellow all-timer to injury and despite depleted depth still looks headed to a game 7 finals against a team that took the best parts of three playoffs teams that merged together until his constant right hand man also succumbs to injury.

Any of these years is more impressive than what any of his contemporaries have done in the same time.

[Axe]

Another more valid interpretation:

2015 - Defeats all other First Team All-NBA players en route to a championship with a roster of conference finals first-timers.
2016 - After an injury, knocks out the two closest MVPs in time to him in the conference finals before losing a tight 7 game finals that saw the league intervene to save that lesser player who always needs more help to accomplish anything.
2017/2018 - When teamed up with a fellow all-timer dominates the league in such thorough fashion as to be considered the best team of all-time with only half-hearted complaints to the contrary. Since this is a thread about Magic I'll also mention no one even seriously tries comparing the Showtime Lakers to this team.
2019 - Loses fellow all-timer to injury and despite depleted depth still looks headed to a game 7 finals against a team that took the best parts of three playoffs teams that merged together until his constant right hand man also succumbs to injury.

Any of these years is more impressive than what any of his contemporaries have done in the same time.
What was curry without steve kerr's tutelage, sweetheart?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Another more valid interpretation:

2015 - Defeats all other First Team All-NBA players en route to a championship with a roster of conference finals first-timers.
2016 - After an injury, knocks out the two closest MVPs in time to him in the conference finals before losing a tight 7 game finals that saw the league intervene to save that lesser player who always needs more help to accomplish anything.
2017/2018 - When teamed up with a fellow all-timer dominates the league in such thorough fashion as to be considered the best team of all-time with only half-hearted complaints to the contrary. Since this is a thread about Magic I'll also mention no one even seriously tries comparing the Showtime Lakers to this team.
2019 - Loses fellow all-timer to injury and despite depleted depth still looks headed to a game 7 finals against a team that took the best parts of three playoffs teams that merged together until his constant right hand man also succumbs to injury.

Any of these years is more impressive than what any of his contemporaries have done in the same time.

You make up excuses for Curry when he's hurt in playoffs but fail to bring it up when other stars are hurt. 2015 Chris Paul missed a game vs rockets and Curry avoided facing clippers and he also avoided facing the defending champs. The finals came and Curry avoids facing Irving/Love

2016 - Curry leads the biggest chokejob in nba history being up 3-1 and losing 3 straight

2019 - Curry plays poorly in 2nd round and continues to miss easy shots close to the basket but his team wins anyway because Draymond Green. 2019 finals curry gets outplayed by Klay Thompson and can't even win a game when Klay misses just a quarter in game 6.

[NBAGOAT]

nash is an obvious choice. he's worse all time because his defense is worse