Is Kawhi Leonard a top 5 playoff performer ever and did Spurs hold him back?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

- 4th highest single playoff BPM ever
- 3rd highest career playoff BPM
- 4th highest career playoff DBPM for non big men
- 4th highest career playoff Leader for Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
- 3rd highest career playoff TS
- 5th highest post merger single season playoff win shares per 48 minutes
- 3rd in most points scored for a single playoff run (731)

Kawhi Leonard has all the talent, ability to become a GOAT level player. When Kawhi was in college, he studied and studied Jordan's game. When Kawhi was brought to the NBA, Greg Pop had Kawhi study the defense of Scottie Pippen. What did this machine turn into? A hybrid of both prime Jordan and Scottie Pippen! As scary as that sounds, that is what this monster has become. Kawhi was trained as a kid by his father to play basketball, running basketball drills through cones since he was a damn 7 year old. The man Kawhi BLEEDS the game of basketball. This is not a Tim Duncan situation where he wanted to become a swimmer but just happened to choose basketball instead. Kawhi has the IT factor, nobody can guard him and nobody can score on him. Kawhi can run pick and roll, kawhi can shoot the 3, deadly midrange, overpower people in the post with his strength, soft touch with the fadeaway in the post, and he also has the hand size that we haven't seen from a wing player since Michael Jordan. The guy is also as clutch as it gets and in the last 20 years only Lebron scored more clutch 4th quarter points than 2019 playoff Kawhi.

2016 playoffs - Kawhi led the postseason in BPM
2017 playoffs - Kawhi led the postseason in BPM, OBPM, WS/48, PER
2019 playoffs - Kawhi led the postseason in points, VORP, win shares

You start to realize that Spurs franchise actually held Kawhi back. Not allowing him to have the usage\shot attempts he should have because selfish players like Tony Parker. Once Kawhi was able to be himself in 2017, he has yet to lose a playoff series when healthy and has eliminated all of Harden, Curry, Giannis, Embiid.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yes, and LeBron dominates him every time they face off

Lebron is numero uno playoff performer

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Yes, and LeBron dominates him every time they face off

Lebron is numero uno playoff performer

Lebron was getting dominated by Kawhi in the regular season 2019 before virus. Lebron also got shut down by Kawhi in the 2014 finals. I don't know what you're referring too.

[Roundball_Rock]

There is a myth that every superstar was a star from day one. Players take different trajectories and Kawhi was on the slower end. His career arc is most similar to Butler (obviously Butler did not reach the same ceiling, though) among modern players. I think what the Spurs did worked. He gradually gained more responsibility as he tapped into more of his talent. If he was thrust into the #1 option role in 2013 or 2014 he would have failed.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

There is a myth that every superstar was a star from day one. Players take different trajectories and Kawhi was on the slower end. His career arc is most similar to Butler (obviously Butler did not reach the same ceiling, though) among modern players. I think what the Spurs did worked. He gradually gained more responsibility as he tapped into more of his talent. If he was thrust into the #1 option role in 2013 or 2014 he would have failed.

What about comparing Kobe to Kawhi in terms of career arc? I would say 2014 Kawhi and 2000 Kobe were not that far off. Kobe had a 9 year prime from 2001-2010. All Kawhi would have to do is extend his prime from now until he is about 33\34 years old.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Lebron was getting dominated by Kawhi in the regular season 2019 before virus. Lebron also got shut down by Kawhi in the 2014 finals. I don't know what you're referring too.

What are their stats head to head in the playoffs

[Gotterdammerung]

There is a myth that every superstar was a star from day one. Players take different trajectories and Kawhi was on the slower end. His career arc is most similar to Butler (obviously Butler did not reach the same ceiling, though) among modern players. I think what the Spurs did worked. He gradually gained more responsibility as he tapped into more of his talent. If he was thrust into the #1 option role in 2013 or 2014 he would have failed.

Correct. I watched almost every Spurs playoff game during the Tim Duncan era, and while Leonard was great, he was not the leader of those Spurs teams until Duncan retired in 2016. By 2017, Leonard stepped into the void and the machine kept on humming. But he has failed in the past, especially in that Game 6 when he missed a couple of free throws and failed to secure the key rebound before Ray Allen made that near-impossible jump back clutch three.

Leonard is great because the Spurs brought him along slowly until he was ready. Hindsight in this case, is not 20/20, especially when you didn't watch Leonard before he became an MVP candidate.
:kobe:

[Akeem34TheDream]

Goat perimeter defender, clutch, can shoot from anywhere, efficient, mentally tough and unselfish. His passing was also great this year. GOAT.

[Akeem34TheDream]

What are their stats head to head in the playoffs

Wow. Peak Lebron outplayed sophomore Kawhi. That might be Lebrons biggest accomplishment.

[Roundball_Rock]

What about comparing Kobe to Kawhi in terms of career arc? I would say 2014 Kawhi and 2000 Kobe were not that far off. Kobe had a 9 year prime from 2001-2010. All Kawhi would have to do is extend his prime from now until he is about 33\34 years old.

Going forward that may be the case but Kobe progressed a lot faster than Kawhi. He was a 20 PPG guy by his third year, for example.


I watched almost every Spurs playoff game during the Tim Duncan era, and while Leonard was great, he was not the leader of those Spurs teams until Duncan retired in 2016.

It is funny how history has been revised and now Kawhi was "the man" on those teams. You have serious sports talk show segments asking if he would be in the GOAT discussion if "he wins" 3 rings with 3 teams, placing a ring in LA and Toronto on par with his San Antonio ring.

[r0drig0lac]

best player in the world since 2017 (**** Zaza)

[AlternativeAcc.]

Wow. Peak Lebron outplayed sophomore Kawhi. That might be Lebrons biggest accomplishment.

You were cheering that Duncsn outplayed 22 yo LeBron

Stay consistent

[ArbitraryWater]

Correct. I watched almost every Spurs playoff game during the Tim Duncan era, and while Leonard was great, he was not the leader of those Spurs teams until Duncan retired in 2016. By 2017, Leonard stepped into the void and the machine kept on humming. But he has failed in the past, especially in that Game 6 when he missed a couple of free throws and failed to secure the key rebound before Ray Allen made that near-impossible jump back clutch three.

Leonard is great because the Spurs brought him along slowly until he was ready. Hindsight in this case, is not 20/20, especially when you didn't watch Leonard before he became an MVP candidate.
:kobe:

Wrong.

While Leonard developed slower, he was easily their best player by 2015.

But you're probably forgetting what happened that year, Kawhi missed a large chunck to start the season, so he didnt get any recognition via selections yet.

[ArbitraryWater]

Goat perimeter defender, clutch, can shoot from anywhere, efficient, mentally tough and unselfish. His passing was also great this year. GOAT.

Mentally tough? How long will I have to hear this after he basically vomited on court with his finals 4th quarter no shows?

[Akeem34TheDream]

You were cheering that Duncsn outplayed 22 yo LeBron

Stay consistent

Okay I gotta say this, I hated Spurs back then. They were boring and dirty. And 2007 is one of the worst finals ever imo.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Mentally tough? How long will I have to hear this after he basically vomited on court with his finals 4th quarter no shows?

Last year Kawhi wasn't great in the finals because of his conditioning. Raptors went to WARS with Sixers and Bucks(two teams better than KDless GSW). He got fatigued. It wasnt a mental thing but a physical. That wasnt choking. And 80% kawhi was enough to win the title.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Last year Kawhi wasn't great in the finals because of his conditioning. Raptors went to WARS with Sixers and Bucks(two teams better than KDless GSW). He got fatigued. It wasnt a mental thing but a physical. That wasnt choking. And 80% kawhi was enough to win the title.

Kawhi leonard averaged 28 points 10 rebounds 4 assists 2 steals 1 block with a 122 offensive rating and 60% TS in the finals. I would say that's still goat level stats.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Mentally tough? How long will I have to hear this after he basically vomited on court with his finals 4th quarter no shows?

If you want to knock kawhi for 2013, you have to give credit for his 2014 finals MVP and owning Lebron in 5 games. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Me personally? I like to judge primes (kawhi 2016-present and lebron 2008-2018). Of course, pre prime accomplishments do add to your career resume like 2000 Kobe, 2007 Lebron, 2014 Kawhi

[Whoah10115]

vomit vomit vomit vomit

[Axe]

Lebron was getting dominated by Kawhi in the regular season 2019 before virus. Lebron also got shut down by Kawhi in the 2014 finals. I don't know what you're referring too.
The raptors last season literally swept the lakers in the regular season series. I'm not just sure if kawhi did play in both games.

[ArbitraryWater]

If you want to knock kawhi for 2013, you have to give credit for his 2014 finals MVP and owning Lebron in 5 games. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Me personally? I like to judge primes (kawhi 2016-present and lebron 2008-2018). Of course, pre prime accomplishments do add to your career resume like 2000 Kobe, 2007 Lebron, 2014 Kawhi

We are refering to the year he didn't do shit while playing big minutes in the 4th quarters, the recent one...

[Gougou]

Ya Spurs did, even Pop said he is not a leader on the team, they won't let him to dominate the ball more like Raptors did, and they mistreated his injury.

[SATAN]

Kawhi leonard averaged 28 points 10 rebounds 4 assists 2 steals 1 block with a 122 offensive rating and 60% TS in the finals. I would say that's still goat level stats.


How?

[ralph_i_el]

The Spurs offered him the best situation possible support and opportunity. He got legendary coaching. Legendary teammates. Deep playoff runs at a young age as a role player in some of the best offenses of the decade. I don't think he would be the player he would be if he wasn't on the Spurs.

[tpols]

ive never seen a player as consistently good as kawhi. he has no downside to his game like most of even the best do.

tim duncans the only one i can think of that similar.

as for the thread no, the spurs groomed him perfectly. He likely wouldve never turned out this good without them he wasnt even a lotto pick coming out of college.

[Mamba4Life]

Nah, dude got outplayed by LeBron too many times head to head

[Axe]

Nah, dude got outplayed by LeBron too many times head to head
Yet, kawhi still leads in head-to-head wins, suckah.

[deathawaitu]

Nah, Kawhi was hold back because he played in the Western conference.

Goes to the Eastern Conference and won a championship in his first year. Cake walk compare battling through the West

In the meantime, best player in the East Lebron goes to the West and miss the playoff on a consistent basis

[Whoah10115]

ive never seen a player as consistently good as kawhi. he has no downside to his game like most of even the best do.

tim duncans the only one i can think of that similar.

as for the thread no, the spurs groomed him perfectly. He likely wouldve never turned out this good without them he wasnt even a lotto pick coming out of college.

Maybe the best post of your career.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

We are refering to the year he didn't do shit while playing big minutes in the 4th quarters, the recent one...

I still don't know what hell you're rambling about? 2013 maybe? Kawhi didn't get enough opportunity that year. By 2014 after the series was tied 1-1, spurs started giving Kawhi the ball and he made Lebron eat his dust.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Nah, Kawhi was hold back because he played in the Western conference.

Goes to the Eastern Conference and won a championship in his first year. Cake walk compare battling through the West

In the meantime, best player in the East Lebron goes to the West and miss the playoff on a consistent basis

East playoff path was harder then the west path in 2019. You had the bucks with the best record, MVP, coach of the year. You also had the super team of Embiid\Butler\Simmons\Harris.