Never forget, the most in depth top 40 list had both Kareem & LeBron ahead of MJ

[1987_Lakers]

https://backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the-backpicks-goat-the-40-best-careers-in-nba-history/

Incredibly detailed top 40 list, provided in depth analysis of every single player on the list, their strengths are weaknesses, their value to their team etc.

1. Kareem
2. LeBron
3. MJ

[RRR3]

That list had a lot of people seething on here. I don't agree with his rankings but it was incredibly informative and fun to read.

[Roundball_Rock]

That is the most impressive list I have seen with the in-depth analysis accompanied with tape to show what he is talking about and a plethora of stats. So something for everyone: stat people, film people, history buffs.

The problem MJ for MJ's case is he isn't #1 in any particular category of greatness or any major statistical category. So anyone hewing to a criteria is going to have a hard time spitting out MJ as GOAT. He has avoided this thus far via the media fanboying him (as the "coverage" of the doc has comically exposed) but that will change as generations change.


The greatest player of all time. Jordan led the Bulls to six NBA championships, winning six Finals MVP awards and five regular-season MVP honors while becoming a global icon on and off the floor. Jordan's brilliance on both ends of the court defined a generation of basketball and set a new standard for players following in his footsteps. His game transcended the sport.
-- Friedell

This is absolute fluff.


No one in NBA history can match Abdul-Jabbar's lengthy list of achievements. He won a record six MVP awards and was a 19-time All-Star. He won six championships -- with the first and last coming 17 years apart -- and was named to 15 All-NBA teams, with 10 first-team selections. His unstoppable skyhook allowed him to score more points than anyone in league history, and while he wasn't flashy, there has arguably never been anyone better.
--Bontemps

"No one in NBA history can match Abdul-Jabbar's lengthy list of achievement" yet they have him 3rd?

[Soundwave]

That is the most impressive list I have seen with the in-depth analysis accompanied with tape to show what he is talking about and a plethora of stats. So something for everyone: stat people, film people, history buffs.

The problem MJ has is he isn't #1 in any particular category of greatness or any major statistical category. So anyone hewing to a criteria is going to have a hard time spitting out MJ as GOAT.



This is absolute fluff.



"No one in NBA history can match Abdul-Jabbar's lengthy list of achievement" yet they have him 3rd?

Having 10 scoring titles when the next closest player has 7 (all of them coming pre 1967) and the highest PPG scoring is not notable?

On what planet?

Do you think a hockey player could win 10 scoring titles or a baseball player could lead the league in home runs for 10 seasons in the modern era and it not be notable?

[warriorfan]

Jordan doc got LeBron stans like

https://media.tenor.com/images/d6eb7c160a0b5a313fa495d38da1fdf3/tenor.gif

[SATAN]

Steph number 20. Interesting.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Roundbrick speaking lies again.

Jordan has the highest PPG average in the regular-season and playoffs.

But yeah, not #1 in any major statistical category... Fukking clown :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

...

Scoring is his big category and he is 5th there.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The author definitely put time into his list. I remember commenting on it when it was posted here.

A few things I strongly disagree with:

Arbitrary values on MVPs, 'Weak' MVP seasons, and Role Players. That and including things like 'winshares' which are too dependent on the box-score. Seeing Magic and Bird at 10 and 11 was another thing that had me shaking my head. Like I said, it was well thought out. And the data/time that went into it is commendable. Elgee is a solid poster on the other forum too.

[Axe]

Judging by the recent threads his mudslingers make, i guess jordan really sucks after all. So he should be deprived of being involved in goat conversations, as well as his induction to the basketball hof a decade ago.

[RRR3]

The author definitely put time into his list. I remember commenting on it when it was posted here.

A few things I strongly disagree with:

Arbitrary values on MVPs, 'Weak' MVP seasons, and Role Players. That and including things like 'winshares' which are too dependent on the box-score. Seeing Magic and Bird at 10 and 11 was another thing that had me shaking my head. Like I said, it was well thought out. And the data/time that went into it is commendable. Elgee is a solid poster on the other forum too.
He did say he is ranking their total career value which would explain why Magic and Bird aren’t that high with their weak longevity. That said I disagree with a fair amount of his rankings.

[dreamshake]

Don’t forget OP is a thief who stole unemployment money and didn’t return it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He did say he is ranking their total career value which would explain why Magic and Bird aren’t that high with their weak longevity. That said I disagree with a fair amount of his rankings.

Yeah I get that..and it makes sense because of the random values he put on certain awards. And stats.

In a vacuum, if I just included their raw numbers with some advanced stats. Accolades and honors....along with impact on the game? Top 5-7 credentials are warranted.

Elgee's list was...unique. I mean, he has Garnett top 8.

[Axe]

Don’t forget OP is a thief who stole unemployment money and didn’t return it.
Robin hood. 😂

[Roundball_Rock]

He did say he is ranking their total career value which would explain why Magic and Bird aren’t that high with their weak longevity. That said I disagree with a fair amount of his rankings.

But other than KG the guys he put ahead of Magic, Bird are all defensible. I have Bird 7th and Magic 8th but I can see why someone would have Duncan ahead of them if they put a lot of emphasis on longevity, for example.

[3ball]

That is the most impressive list I have seen with the in-depth analysis accompanied with tape to show what he is talking about and a plethora of stats. So something for everyone: stat people, film people, history buffs.

The problem MJ for MJ's case is he isn't #1 in any particular category of greatness or any major statistical category. So anyone hewing to a criteria is going to have a hard time spitting out MJ as GOAT. He has avoided this thus far via the media fanboying him (as the "coverage" of the doc has comically exposed) but that will change as generations change.



This is absolute fluff.



"No one in NBA history can match Abdul-Jabbar's lengthy list of achievement" yet they have him 3rd?

MJ leads the biggest category - the scoreboard - aka PPG... Teams win with less assists or rebounds, but never less scoring


.
Kareem's Playoff Averages During Various Championship Runs:


1982: 20.0 ppg.. 8.5 rpg... :roll:

1985: 21.0 ppg.. 8.1 rpg... :roll:

1987: 19.2 ppg.. 6.8 rpg... :roll:

1988: 14.1 ppg.. 5.5 rpg... :roll:



Through 13 Seasons Each


REGULAR SEASON

Jordan (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#all_advanced).... 31.5 ppg.. 58.0 ts.. 35.3 usg.. 120 ortg.. 29.1 PER.. 0.274 ws/48.. 9.0 bpm
Kareem (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/abdulka01.html#1970-1982-sum:per_game)... 26.5 ppg.. 59.0 ts.. 25.1 usg.. 118 ortg.. 26.5 PER.. 0.255 ws/48.. 7.9 bpm


PLAYOFFS

Jordan (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#all_playoffs_advanced).... 33.5 ppg.. 56.8 ts.. 35.6 usg.. 118 ortg.. 28.6 PER.. 0.255 ws/48.. 10.1 bpm
Kareem (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/abdulka01.html#1970-1982-sum:playoffs_advanced)... 29.1 ppg.. 56.7 ts.. 26.1 usg.. 118 ortg.. 25.8 PER.. 0.232 ws/48.... 8.7 bpm


FINALS

Jordan'.... 33.5 ppg.. 6 fmvp
Kareem... 26.0 ppg.. 2 fmvp


SUMMARY - jordan has a massive statistical and winning edge over kareem.. this is despite Kareem not winning much in the 70's and playing for himself, while MJ was restricted by a winning system and brand of ball

Obviously, if we included 83-89' for Kareem (his mostly carried years), MJ would've beaten him by even more

* ortg was only available for 78-82' for Kareem, so his high season from that period was used.. bpm was available for 74-82' (most of the period in question), so the average was used[/QUOTE]

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan is 5th in scoring; he was 3rd just a few years ago.

Scoring: Kareem 1st, LeBron 3rd, Jordan 5th
Assists: LeBron 8th, Kareem 43rd, Jordan 45th
Rebounds: Kareem 3rd, LeBron 49th, Jordan 129th

[3ball]

Jordan is 5th in scoring; he was 3rd just a few years ago.

Scoring: Kareem 1st, LeBron 3rd, Jordan 5th
Assists: LeBron 8th, Kareem 43rd, Jordan 45th
Rebounds: Kareem 3rd, LeBron 49th, Jordan 129th

MJ scored the most per game, which indicates basketball skill more than career totals

And his rate of production was superior across the board

[LeCroix]

https://media.tenor.com/images/d6eb7c160a0b5a313fa495d38da1fdf3/tenor.gif

Chill bro

[LeCroix]

Jordan is 5th in scoring; he was 3rd just a few years ago.

Scoring: Kareem 1st, LeBron 3rd, Jordan 5th
Assists: LeBron 8th, Kareem 43rd, Jordan 45th
Rebounds: Kareem 3rd, LeBron 49th, Jordan 129th

Check playoffs too


LBJ, MJ, KAJ

Top 3 goats

[sportjames23]

Jordan doc got LeBron stans like

https://media.tenor.com/images/d6eb7c160a0b5a313fa495d38da1fdf3/tenor.gif


The meltdown of these bois has been a glorious thing to see these last four weeks. I expect Tsar Bomba levels of detonation after this final weekend. :oldlol:

[86Celtics]

Jordan is 5th in scoring; he was 3rd just a few years ago.

Scoring: Kareem 1st, LeBron 3rd, Jordan 5th
Assists: LeBron 8th, Kareem 43rd, Jordan 45th
Rebounds: Kareem 3rd, LeBron 49th, Jordan 129th

And Karl Malone is 2nd but you won't hear fans of his insinuating that he's a better scorer than James and Jordan.

[RogueBorg]

And Karl Malone is 2nd but you won't hear fans of his insinuating that he's a better scorer than James and Jordan.

Great point

[Roundball_Rock]

As far as aggregate stats go, everyone knows who the home run kings (legit and roids) are. No one knows who the HR per game leader is. Jordan warps a lot of the discussion because people want to bend everything to most favor him. Longevity is the best example. Longevity is always a good thing and relevant when comparing players in any sport--except when MJ is involved.