1998. Isaiah Thomas call Pippen the 2nd best player in the NBA

[97 bulls]

Heres a video of highlights of the 98 ECSF game 4, in which Scottie Pippen shuts down Glen Rice and is called the 2nd best player in the NBA over the last 5 years by his nemesis Isaiah Thomas. Notice how Doug Collins, Bob Costas, and Thomas rave about Pippens impact and overall value to the Bulls.


https://youtu.be/0Yh4qNNJIBQ

[Roundball_Rock]

:cheers:

It is revisionist history by you-know-who to claim Pippen wasn't considered a superstar in the 90's.

[97 bulls]

:cheers:

It is revisionist history by you-know-who to claim Pippen wasn't considered a superstar in the 90's.

I'm a Pippen fan and I think 2nd best is definitely too high. But it shows how highly Pip was regarded at that time. Certainly not a "taller Mo Williams" as some of these guys like to say.

[3ball]

Isiah said that Pippen > peak Hakeem?

Sounds like bs

Btw, it's easy to play defense when you don't have to play offense - Pippen averaged 18 on 44% (rice 23 on 44%)..

Isiah also made about 80 comments saying Pippen was carried so I wouldn't put any stock in a one-off.. Pippen fools people inti thinking he's good but it's a flash in the pan.. he consistently disappears

[97 bulls]

Isiah said that Pippen > peak Hakeem?

Sounds like bs

Btw, it's easy to play defense when you don't have to play offense - Pippen averaged 18 on 44% (rice 23 on 44%)..

Isiah also made about 80 comments saying Pippen was carried so I wouldn't put any stock in a one-off.. Pippen fools people inti thinking he's good but it's a flash in the pan.. he consistently disappears

Show us he comments and when they were said.

[FKAri]

There's no way Pippen was number 2 over 5 years in the NBA.

[LeCroix]

:cheers:

It is revisionist history by you-know-who to claim Pippen wasn't considered a superstar in the 90's.

Think to this

Prime MJ leaves bulls in 93

94 Pippen wins 55 and gets 3rd in MVP votong

:lol CANT MAKE THAT SHIT UP

As a MJ stan, why even fight the Pippen narrative?

Pip is great. So is MJ is top tier great. Be proud you had a great #2 so that you coooould win 6 chips. Jesus

[3ball]

Show us he comments and when they were said.

During the 93' Finals:

"When you're talking about this Bulls' team, you're really only talking about 1 player"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w&t=01m34s

[tpols]

who cares?

he has the most obvious agenda ever regarding his opinion on this topic.

[97 bulls]

During the 93' Finals:

"When you're talking about this Bulls' team, you're really only talking about 1 player"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w&t=01m34s

Funny, this video was back in 93. 6 years before Thomas said he felt Pip had been the 2nd best player over the last 5 years so your argument is worthless.

But notice what he did say. And this is why I think Pippen attained so much respect. Thomas said (in the video you posted) take him off the Pistons, Bird of the Celtics, Magic off the Lakers and Jordan off the Bulls, he felt the Bulls were the worst team of the group. Well we got to see how all four of those teams faired under his scenario. The fact is, not only were the Bulls better, you'd have to remove 2 of the Bulls best players to be at the same level as the other teams.

Thomas like us, saw what Pip was capable off when Jordan left. Which, much like us, is why he said what he said in 98.

[3ball]

Funny, this video was back in 93. 6 years before Thomas said he felt Pip had been the 2nd best player over the last 5 years so your argument is worthless.

But notice what he did say. And this is why I think Pippen attained so much respect. Thomas said (in the video you posted) take him off the Pistons, Bird of the Celtics, Magic off the Lakers and Jordan off the Bulls, he felt the Bulls were the worst team of the group. Well we got to see how all four of those teams faired under his scenario. The fact is, not only were the Bulls better, you'd have to remove 2 of the Bulls best players to be at the same level as the other teams.

Thomas like us, saw what Pip was capable off when Jordan left. Which, much like us, is why he said what he said in 98.

Don't try to bullshit posters.. it wastes time

The 94' Celtics, Pistons and Lakers didn't have the same players as the 80's teams Magic/Isiah were referring to

[Roundball_Rock]

Think to this

Prime MJ leaves bulls in 93

94 Pippen wins 55 and gets 3rd in MVP votong

:lol CANT MAKE THAT SHIT UP

As a MJ stan, why even fight the Pippen narrative?

Pip is great. So is MJ is top tier great. Be proud you had a great #2 so that you coooould win 6 chips. Jesus

Insecurity. :lol


Funny, this video was back in 93

It is more deception from MJ stans. I posted a series of media articles and television coverage links from 1992-1998 where Pippen was being called a superstar, etc.


I'm a Pippen fan and I think 2nd best is definitely too high

Agreed. He peaked rank wise at 3rd in 94' IMO.


Isiah said that Pippen > peak Hakeem?

Hakeem was not "peak Hakeem" in 98'. :oldlol:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Yes, I remember Isaiah called Pippen the 2nd best player in the NBA during the 1997 finals as well.

[97 bulls]

Don't try to bullshit posters.. it wastes time

The 94' Celtics, Pistons and Lakers didn't have the same players as the 80's teams Magic/Isiah were referring to

WTF? How are you arriving at that conclusion? That's not what he meant. Bird and Magic were long gone by 94. Here are the facts. Thomas saw how the Lakers were without Magic, he saw how the Celtics were without Bird. We never got to see how the Bulls would be without Jordan. That video you sent was made in 93. Not 94. He said he felt Pippen was the 2nd best over the last 5 years in 98. After he saw how well Pippen played without Jordan. 94, 95,96,97, and 98. Again 5 years.

[LeCroix]

WTF? How are you arriving at that conclusion? That's not what he meant. Bird and Magic were long gone by 94. Here are the facts. Thomas saw how the Lakers were without Magic, he saw how the Celtics were without Bird. We never got to see how the Bulls would be without Jordan. That video you sent was made in 93. Not 94. He said he felt Pippen was the 2nd best over the last 5 years in 98. After he saw how well Pippen played without Jordan. 94, 95,96,97, and 98. Again 5 years.
Bodied

[3ball]

WTF? How are you arriving at that conclusion? That's not what he meant. Bird and Magic were long gone by 94. Here are the facts. Thomas saw how the Lakers were without Magic, he saw how the Celtics were without Bird. We never got to see how the Bulls would be without Jordan. That video you sent was made in 93. Not 94. He said he felt Pippen was the 2nd best over the last 5 years in 98. After he saw how well Pippen played without Jordan. 94, 95,96,97, and 98. Again 5 years.

You're making up connections not proving them

Isiah thought Pippen was carried and said so many times.. That was the consensus regardless of a one-off comment said in the feel good moment.. people get a feel-good to say stuff about Pippen but it's all hyoerbole and backed up by nothing - later when they take a more sober look at it, they return to the consensus and say Pippen was carried

[97 bulls]

You're making up connections not proving them

Isiah thought Pippen was carried and said so many times.. That was the consensus regardless of a one-off comment

That was the consensus before Jordan retired. Afterward and onward, he was regarded as much more.

Now I'm gonna ask you again. Show me some of the many times and when. And then when is key. Because as is the case with most players. Their legacy is built based on their career. Not over a season or 2.

[3ball]

That was the consensus before Jordan retired. Afterward and onward, he was regarded as much more.

Now I'm gonna ask you again. Show me some of the many times and when. And then when is key. Because as is the case with most players. Their legacy is built based on their career. Not over a season or 2.

No Pippen was carried and this was the consensus - everyone said so:

Isiah, Shaq, Phil, Chuck Daly, Bill Laimbeer, Krause, media, NY times - literally everyone

I'll post all the quotes later

[Roundball_Rock]

WTF? How are you arriving at that conclusion? That's not what he meant. Bird and Magic were long gone by 94. Here are the facts. Thomas saw how the Lakers were without Magic, he saw how the Celtics were without Bird. We never got to see how the Bulls would be without Jordan. That video you sent was made in 93. Not 94. He said he felt Pippen was the 2nd best over the last 5 years in 98. After he saw how well Pippen played without Jordan. 94, 95,96,97, and 98. Again 5 years.

Where are quotes about his (agenda) heroes Irving, Kemp, and Kevin Johnson being second best? :oldlol:

[Fadeaway23]

That was the consensus before Jordan retired. Afterward and onward, he was regarded as much more.

Now I'm gonna ask you again. Show me some of the many times and when. And then when is key. Because as is the case with most players. Their legacy is built based on their career. Not over a season or 2.

This isn't true. Thomas has said several times that he didn't respect pippen and that " he couldn't carry the league like Jordan did". He also said that Pippen was a few levels below Jordan, Magic, and Bird. Take a look at the link below...

https://youtu.be/P4nBRe4uA9s

[97 bulls]

No Pippen was carried and this was the consensus - everyone said so:

Isiah, Shaq, Phil, Chuck Daly, Bill Laimbeer, Krause, media, NY times - literally everyone

I'll post all the quotes later

I bet they will all be late 80s early 90s quotes.

Look, I get it. Life stopped for you after 93. After 93, norheing else matters. Unfortunately for your rhetoric, 94, 95, 96-00 happened. Scottie Pippen was a great basketball player. If his biggest rival in Isaiah Thomas can admit it, why cant you?

[Roundball_Rock]

Chuck Daly said Pippen was the best player on the Dream Team. :lol


Look, I get it. Life stopped for you after 93. After 93, norheing else matters. Unfortunately for your rhetoric, 94, 95, 96-00 happened. Scottie Pippen was a great basketball player. If his biggest rival in Isaiah Thomas can admit it, why cant you?


Yeah it is bizarre: his argument is a few people thought it was all MJ before his first retirement. That theory was crushed and no one other than MJ stans holds that view today.

[97 bulls]

This isn't true. Thomas has said several times that he didn't respect pippen and that " he couldn't carry the league like Jordan did". He also said that Pippen was a few levels below Jordan, Magic, and Bird. Take a look at the link below...

https://youtu.be/P4nBRe4uA9s

Context, context, context. He was referring to where Scottie Pippen was in 92. Who at that time didnt and shouldn't have had the respect that he eventually attained. Not Pippen circa 00.

It's like when he talks about his supposedly freezing out Jordan in the 86 Allstar game. He said. That wasnt true because at that time, he hadn't garnered the respect in the league to lead Bird, Magic, and company to freeze put Jordan.

[97 bulls]

Where are quotes about his (agenda) heroes Irving, Kemp, and Kevin Johnson being second best? :oldlol:

:applause: great point.

[Axe]

So he and former teammate rodman had the same opinion about him?

[Round Mound]

:confusedshrug: Everyone but MJ dickeriders and fanboys know that Pippen was a Top 10 Player in the 90's....

[RogueBorg]

Insecurity. :lol



I posted a series of media articles and television coverage links from 1992-1998 where Pippen was being called a superstar, etc.





I'll ask you again, if everyone thought Pippen was the best defender in the game, why didn't he win a single DPOY? He had two years without Jordan to do it.

He finished 4th (his best year defensively) in '94
Defensive Player of the Year

Rank Player Age Tm First
1 Hakeem Olajuwon 23
2 David Robinson 22
3 Dikembe Mutombo 19
4 Scottie Pippen 11


And 2nd in '95 but it wasn't even close
Defensive Player of the Year

Rank Player Age Tm First
1 Dikembe Mutombo 45
2 Scottie Pippen 16
3 Hakeem Olajuwon 13

Both years, there's at least one player that received more than twice the DPOY votes Pippen received.
So all those quotes you posted how Pippen was the best defender, something does add up.

[aceman]

Pippen was described as 2nd best player in league throughout that time period. Given his form from 1994 to 96 even today it's not outrageous as there was only a few players playing at his level.

[Roundball_Rock]

You are moving the goal posts to DPOY versus being a superstar. You all are the ones rewriting history to say he wasn't considered a superstar during that time. Where is the evidence to support that absurd claim? I have brought the receipts. I don't see that from the other side (not shocked, though).

[LostCause]

Pippens great. Not sure why you guys are making thread after thread arguing the same points with the same people (2 of whom I’m sure are the same person btw)

That said, Isiahs probably not who you want to cite in favor of Pip. You guys remember this segment?

https://youtu.be/EsY6E-O7fY4?t=179

Saying Grant Hill was better in the 90s then basically doing a “who the **** are you” in response to Pip saying he didn’t want him on the Dream Team etc

[ImKobe]

Why are people still quoting Zeke? He's clearly one of the biggest Jordan haters as far as NBA players go.

[BigShotBob]

Zeke literally said that Pippen was a nobody recently so.....:oldlol:

[97 bulls]

Pippens great. Not sure why you guys are making thread after thread arguing the same points with the same people (2 of whom I’m sure are the same person btw)

That said, Isiahs probably not who you want to cite in favor of Pip. You guys remember this segment?

https://youtu.be/EsY6E-O7fY4?t=179

Saying Grant Hill was better in the 90s then basically doing a “who the **** are you” in response to Pip saying he didn’t want him on the Dream Team etc
In the 98 quote, he said that Pippen was second to Jordan. And he didnt say Grant was better, he said Grant was supposed to be the one that took the Jordan mantle. And as I stated in a previous post, Thomas was referring to where Pippen in 92, not Pippen in 98. Talk about selective hearing.

[97 bulls]

Zeke literally said that Pippen was a nobody recently so.....:oldlol:

No he didn't. If he did, he was referring to Pippen in 89-90.

Truth be told, it doesn't seem that Thomas has a problem with Michael and Scottie so much as they have a problem with him Hes always given them credit and complimented them.

[BigShotBob]

No he didn't. If he did, he was referring to Pippen in 89-90.

Truth be told, it doesn't seem that Thomas has a problem with Michael and Scottie so much as they have a problem with him Hes always given them credit and complimented them.

Scottie Pippen said that he "Absolutely" had a problem with Isiah on the Dream Team.

Zeke then said on Open Court that he understood if Larry Bird or Magic or Jordan had an issue with him on the Dream Team.

"But Scottie Pippen?! Man.....go to the park."

Verbatim.

[juju151111]

Pippen isn't better than Hakeem. Yall delusional Pippen fans sit your ass down

[juju151111]

In the 98 quote, he said that Pippen was second to Jordan. And he didnt say Grant was better, he said Grant was supposed to be the one that took the Jordan mantle. And as I stated in a previous post, Thomas was referring to where Pippen in 92, not Pippen in 98. Talk about selective hearing.

He just showed you Isiah saying grant better when he not in prisoner of the moment. He was looking at pip do something. Now he had time to think about it. Two different mindsets

[sdot_thadon]

Yeah I remember this sentiment during the 2nd 3peat, whether or not he really was is irrelevant as long as we're acknowledging there was talk. I wouldn't take him over Dream, but Scottie was a bad dude. And I never expected him to win a dpoy trophy in the basically golden age era of centers. The narrative then was still a big was most valuable to a contender. But let's get real guys Scottie was absolutely one of the 10 best players in the world in the 90s.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah I remember this sentiment during the 2nd 3peat, whether or not he really was is irrelevant as long as we're acknowledging there was talk. I wouldn't take him over Dream, but Scottie was a bad dude. And I never expected him to win a dpoy trophy in the basically golden age era of centers. The narrative then was still a big was most valuable to a contender. But let's get real guys Scottie was absolutely one of the 10 best players in the world in the 90s.

Exactly. It is absurd that we have this push--all from MJ stans--to claim he was considered a random all-star and not an elite player back then.

[97 bulls]

Scottie Pippen said that he "Absolutely" had a problem with Isiah on the Dream Team.

Zeke then said on Open Court that he understood if Larry Bird or Magic or Jordan had an issue with him on the Dream Team.

"But Scottie Pippen?! Man.....go to the park."

Verbatim.

Right. Hes basing it on where the players were at that time. Those decisions were made in 92 not when Thomas made the comments in 2019. How are you guys missing this?

[97 bulls]

Pippen isn't better than Hakeem. Yall delusional Pippen fans sit your ass down

I said I think it's a real stretch to say Pippen was the 2nd best player. But it goes to show how much he was respected by then.

[97 bulls]

Yeah I remember this sentiment during the 2nd 3peat, whether or not he really was is irrelevant as long as we're acknowledging there was talk. I wouldn't take him over Dream, but Scottie was a bad dude. And I never expected him to win a dpoy trophy in the basically golden age era of centers. The narrative then was still a big was most valuable to a contender. But let's get real guys Scottie was absolutely one of the 10 best players in the world in the 90s.

Facts

[Roundball_Rock]

Right. Hes basing it on where the players were at that time. Those decisions were made in 92 not when Thomas made the comments in 2019. How are you guys missing this?

Yeah it is pretty obvious. Magic, MJ, Bird were the kings or former kings of the NBA and held a unique status on the team as a result, even though Magic was retired and Bird past his prime by that point. Pippen was an upstart like some of the others on the team.

[LostCause]

In the 98 quote, he said that Pippen was second to Jordan. And he didnt say Grant was better, he said Grant was supposed to be the one that took the Jordan mantle. And as I stated in a previous post, Thomas was referring to where Pippen in 92, not Pippen in 98. Talk about selective hearing.

What are you on about? The vid I linked doesn't specify anything between 92 or 98 Pippen so that's not relevant to what I referenced. They were asked to choose their best team of the 90s and they went by position. When Hill chose Pippen over himself due to championships, pretty much everyone in the room scoffed at it (also others saying he was better by the numbers) and Zeke went on to get at him for trying to be humble. Hill basically said true then admitted he was the best SF of the 90s which Thomas and others agreed with. Also it makes no sense for Zeke to say Hill was looked at to carry the NBA while saying Scottie couldn't do it if Zeke didn't think Hill was better

This is basic comprehension shit

Not sure what the issue is here. He didn't say Pippen sucked, it's just pretty obvious that the folks in the roundtable there thought Hill was better. How does that impact his standing?

[97 bulls]

What are you on about? The vid I linked doesn't specify anything between 92 or 98 Pippen so that's not relevant to what I referenced. They were asked to choose their best team of the 90s and they went by position. When Hill chose Pippen over himself due to championships, pretty much everyone in the room scoffed at it (also others saying he was better by the numbers) and Zeke went on to get at him for trying to be humble. Hill basically said true then admitted he was the best SF of the 90s which Thomas and others agreed with. Also it makes no sense for Zeke to say Hill was looked at to carry the NBA while saying Scottie couldn't do it if Zeke didn't think Hill was better

This is basic comprehension shit

Right. It is basic comprehension. Miller picked Pippen. Zeke said Hill was supposed to be the Heir Apparent. Key words are was supposed. Thomas acknowledged Hills talent.

[LostCause]

Right. It is basic comprehension. Miller picked Pippen. Zeke said Hill was supposed to be the Heir Apparent. Key words are was supposed. Thomas acknowledged Hills talent.

Uhh it's pretty obvious his injury in 2000/01 is why he didn't live up to those expectations so those "key words" don't matter when talking about the 90s, which is why almost all of them took issue with him choosing Pip over himself

Again, what are you on about?

[Roundball_Rock]

People don't even know what Hill's numbers were. People talk about him like he was LeBron-lite.

Pippen (1991-1998): 20/8/6
Hill (1995-2000): 22/8/6
Pippen as #1: 22/8/5

So Hill scored 2 more points--as a #1 option--and the same when both were #1 options. Does the extra 2 PPG offset Pippen's vastly superior defense? :oldlol: