The best GOAT comparison

[RogueBorg]

Really interesting video making the case for the GOAT.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl3mR6eoEa8

Watch and decide for yourself.

[LeCroix]

Criteria is easy

3 or more Finals MVPS
Magic
LeBron
Jordan
Shaq
Duncan

4 or more MVPs
LeBron
Jordan

6000 or more points
LeBron

10 or more game winners
Lebron

400 or more steals
LeBron

Easy

NEXT

[Da_Realist]

Really interesting video making the case for the GOAT.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl3mR6eoEa8

Watch and decide for yourself.

He nailed it

[Mamba4Life]

Criteria is easy

3 or more Finals MVPS
Magic
LeBron
Jordan
Shaq
Duncan

4 or more MVPs
LeBron
Jordan

6000 or more points
LeBron

10 or more game winners
Lebron

400 or more steals
LeBron

Easy

NEXT

got em

[RogueBorg]

Criteria is easy

3 or more Finals MVPS
Magic
LeBron
Jordan
Shaq
Duncan

4 or more MVPs
LeBron
Jordan

6000 or more points
LeBron

10 or more game winners
Lebron

400 or more steals
LeBron

Easy

NEXT

Did you watch it?

[RogueBorg]

got em

https://lifeinthegym.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/bury-your-head-in-the-sand.jpg

[LeCroix]

https://lifeinthegym.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/bury-your-head-in-the-sand.jpg

why does lebron have more playoff series wins in 13 years then anyone ever?

[DoctorP]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA/giphy.gif

It's over.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Why do Jordan stans cite biased YouTube geeks instead of formulating their own arguments?

[Lion's pride]

why does lebron have more playoff series wins in 13 years then anyone ever?

He did play in the weak Eastern Conference... The one year he played out West he did what??

[Axe]

4402

Until then

GOAT

[RogueBorg]

why does lebron have more playoff series wins in 13 years then anyone ever?

Do you know what 18-31 represents?

[RogueBorg]

Why do Jordan stans cite biased YouTube geeks instead of formulating their own arguments?

Where the biased YouTube geeks wrong in their arguments?

[Axe]

Where the biased YouTube geeks wrong in their arguments?
Don't ask the hypocrite

[Da_Realist]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA/giphy.gif

It's over.

It was never a serious debate if you look past the stats but this video is as good as it gets.

[RRR3]

It was never a serious debate if you look past the stats but this video is as good as it gets.
Kareem still exists :yaohappy:


I know y’all love pretending he doesn’t doe.

[Da_Realist]

Kareem still exists :yaohappy:


I know y’all love pretending he doesn’t doe.

When have I said anything about Kareem?

[RRR3]

When have I said anything about Kareem?
You said it [the GOAT debate] was never a serious debate. Kareem is in the debate whether you like it or not.

[Da_Realist]

You said it [the GOAT debate] was never a serious debate. Kareem is in the debate whether you like it or not.

No I meant the comparison between MJ and LeBron.

[Reggie43]

The Kidd vs. Lopez comparison was nice..

[LeCroix]

It was never a serious debate if you look past the stats but this video is as good as it gets.

this guy said to ignore the facts and focus on what his heart says :lol

[Da_Realist]

this guy said to ignore the facts and focus on what his heart says :lol

Any refutation on the video? Maybe I should post again for those too lazy to go back to the first page.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl3mR6eoEa8

[Axe]

Lmao don't let the insecure 3ball counterpart come here to refute and rant about your claims. Just keep it low instead.

[Roundball_Rock]

Kareem still exists :yaohappy:


I know y’all love pretending he doesn’t doe.

That's because they can't formulate an argument for MJ over anyone other than LeBron or Kobe. I asked people on a FB group why they concluded MJ is the GOAT--there was only one response and that guy said (no joke): 1) MJ was "short" and not tall like centers 2) MJ made the sport more popular. That's it? :roll:

People have MJ as GOAT because they have been told non-stop by the media that. There is no thought process involved in most cases of MJ as GOAT as people.

[warriorfan]

Any refutation on the video? Maybe I should post again for those too lazy to go back to the first page.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl3mR6eoEa8

Irrefutable.

[PoutinPippin]

Kareem still exists :yaohappy:


I know y’all love pretending he doesn’t doe.
Magic was arguably the best player on the lion's share of Kareem's rings. So, it's not that he's ignored.

[Roundball_Rock]

Magic was arguably the best player on the lion's share of Kareem's rings. So, it's not that he's ignored.

What is the argument for MJ>KAJ?

[PoutinPippin]

What is the argument for MJ>KAJ?
Being the best player on the floor, definitively, every time he stepped on the hardwood. For both teams.

As I said, Magic was the best player for the MAJORITY of his championship winning seasons. 6 rings but only 2 Finals MVPs. That's more Kobe esque than anything.

Kareem needed a fellow top 5 player, and another top 15 player ever to win his chips. The BEST PG ever. Pippen however at best is realistically anywhere from 25 - 30 ish. And no where near a top 5 SF ever.

[3ball]

.
3 things we learned recently


1) Lebron lost 4th quarter leads in Game 1 and 3 of 18' Finals and 3 of 5 games in 09' ECF

2) Lebron never beat a good team (top 5 SRS) without good help from a sidekick, aka 20 ppg... He never beat a good team with a 15-16 ppg sidekick like MJ did 5 times, all with horrific efficiency as well

3) Pippen was outplayed by various 2nd options like Juwan Howard, Larry Johnson, X-man, Kevin Willis, Tim Hardaway, Kemp, Penny, Harper and Dumars

[LeCroix]

MJ has fewer

Pts
Reb
Ast
Stls
Blks

Then lbj

Both in 13 playoffs

Plus he has no good chips

[Da_Realist]

Being the best player on the floor, definitively, every time he stepped on the hardwood. For both teams.

As I said, Magic was the best player for the MAJORITY of his championship winning seasons. 6 rings but only 2 Finals MVPs. That's more Kobe esque than anything.

Kareem needed a fellow top 5 player, and another top 15 player ever to win his chips. The BEST PG ever. Pippen however at best is realistically anywhere from 25 - 30 ish. And no where near a top 5 SF ever.

You let him change the subject. He's argumentative. He just wants to go back and forth all damn day. Once you get out of this rabbit hole, he'll find another.

[Nowitness]

100% agree MJ is the GOAT, but this is still a biased video. Errors/in-corrections include;

Durability - Playing 82 regular season games and 4 playoff games doesn’t make you more durable than playing 74 regular season games and 18 playoff games. If you take their total minutes and divide by seasons played in average LBJ is playing 220 more minutes a year than MJ. To add to this both lead the league in minutes 3 times, LeBron however did it when he was 19 and 34, MJ when he was 24-26.

Winning - This Argument presented makes it seem like losing in the finals is worse than losing in the first round. If both had played 10 seasons and one made 5 and won 5 and the other made 8 and won 4 the latter is more impressive. Had LeBron had won this year and finished up 4-6 it is more impressive than 6-0, especially considering the length between appearances. The East was not considered a better conference in the 90s. Indiana didn’t have a superstar, NY had Ewing who spawned a theory that they played better without him and the Heat weren’t proven. Same for the East under LeBron, difference is MJ faced expansion teams in the East so whilst the top of it may have looked better the rest was diluted.

Accolades - How you gonna include all defensive teams because MJ has more but not All NBA in which LBJ has more first team and total 😂

Stats - MJ also has a higher usage %, his stats will look better because of this. Their per 100 stats (which adjust for pace) basically Break even. Jordan scores more, LeBron does everything else more

[j3lademaster]

Personally have Lebron and MJ 1a/1b.

Both with bad to mediocre help, Lebron’s team crushes MJ’s no question. Both with good enough help to win it all, nod goes to MJ but not by a landslide. So if you value winning in more situations like I do, go with Lebron as goat. But I’m not going to poo-poo on your opinion if you’re leaning to towards the guy who wins slightly more when it matters.

Also this playmaker vs playfinisher theory of 3ball’s is legit. I’m sure everyone has played with the ballhog at their local lifetime who only passes when he gets collapsed on driving and expect u to hit every shot because it’s ‘open’ even though it’s your first time touching the ball. It’s tough to play with and I’m sure that’s kinda how playing with Lebron’s like, especially early years. If you look at mj’s game, he does his work offball so when he gets a pass, he makes his move within 3 seconds and makes it look effortless... well, that’s because he put in the work to get into position to score and casual fans only watch the ball. But when u play with a guy like that and u get to be involved in some shape or form every play, even if it’s just throwing an entry pass into the post or swinging the ball, does a lot for player morale.

Lebron otoh, is just so dominant and I think playing in a small ball league makes him look ever moreso. More 3s today = more long rebounds so every perimeter player has inflated rebounding stats. I mean, does anyone actually think luka comes close to bird as a rebounder even though he gets 10? Also there’s no true center anymore so it’s much easier to guard 1-5. I’m sure if pippen played right now he’d be known as a 1-5er.

Finally, today’s game is built to showcase the superstar. It’s why we see more 25+ ppg guys than ever before. 25/5/5 used to be the superstar benchmark and now u got a handful of guys who can get 30/10/10. I mean, does anyone really doubt 03 Kobe would be a top 3 player in this league? Statistically he’s ‘just’ Bradley Beal though. So I do have to take lebron’s Stats in recent years with a little grain of salt.

And am I the only one who thinks 2016 is overrated? I mean curry was averaging like 19 ppg on 40% shooting with a 1:1 assist:to and a detriment on defense. He couldn’t even combine for 20 pts combined with Klay g1 but Lebron let Livingston steal the game from him. To his credit he turned on the killer inside 2nd half of the series and the rest was history, but we can’t just ignore the totality of the series.

All in all I do have Lebron as goat, but MJ is definitely very close. Only other player I’d make a case for is Wilt, I’m sorry KAJ and Russell seem overrated to me. Russell was 3rd option on his own team and was an inferior rebounder to Wilt. And if you ask anyone who saw them play they’ll even tell u Wilt is on par as a defender and a better shotblocker. Old Lakers Wilt was able to give prime KAJ trouble, I’m sure prime Wilt rolls him up into a ball and dunks him like a monstar.

[Roundball_Rock]

As I said, Magic was the best player for the MAJORITY of his championship winning seasons. 6 rings but only 2 Finals MVPs. That's more Kobe esque than anything.

Kareem needed a fellow top 5 player, and another top 15 player ever to win his chips. The BEST PG ever. Pippen however at best is realistically anywhere from 25 - 30 ish. And no where near a top 5 SF ever.

It is bizarro world to make a case for Jordan as GOAT by invoking the help he had relative to other legends and the competition they faced when the others faced equal or greater competition (Russell is the only one like Jordan who had the benefit of facing vastly inferior competition).

The chart below speaks itself:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png?w=1150

[Roundball_Rock]

100% agree MJ is the GOAT, but this is still a biased video. Errors/in-corrections include;

Durability - Playing 82 regular season games and 4 playoff games doesn’t make you more durable than playing 74 regular season games and 18 playoff games. If you take their total minutes and divide by seasons played in average LBJ is playing 220 more minutes a year than MJ. To add to this both lead the league in minutes 3 times, LeBron however did it when he was 19 and 34, MJ when he was 24-26.

Good points. If it is about durability Kareem is the king of that. 20 years, no major injury, and he did not take 2-3 seasons off at a time like MJ did. LeBron also has a strong case for durability, although the load management he has done at times does damage that case. MJ's durability can't be compared to others because of his frequent breaks. We know the benefits of taking 6-7 games off per season. What about the benefits of taking 157 games off or 246 games off?


Accolades - How you gonna include all defensive teams because MJ has more but not All NBA in which LBJ has more first team and total

:lol They do this all the time. Not sure who they think they are fooling other than gullible MJ stans.


Winning - This Argument presented makes it seem like losing in the finals is worse than losing in the first round. If both had played 10 seasons and one made 5 and won 5 and the other made 8 and won 4 the latter is more impressive. Had LeBron had won this year and finished up 4-6 it is more impressive than 6-0, especially considering the length between appearances. The East was not considered a better conference in the 90s. Indiana didn’t have a superstar, NY had Ewing who spawned a theory that they played better without him and the Heat weren’t proven. Same for the East under LeBron, difference is MJ faced expansion teams in the East so whilst the top of it may have looked better the rest was diluted.

Good points. Also, you cannot honestly assess winning without looking at their team situations and those of their opponents. No matter how you parse the data it is clear MJ had the super team of his era; LeBron played against dynasties, not on them.


Stats - MJ also has a higher usage %, his stats will look better because of this. Their per 100 stats (which adjust for pace) basically Break even. Jordan scores more, LeBron does everything else more

Stats also don't capture impact on team. Look at LeBron's teammate's large declines in efficiency after him. There is no stat for that.

[Axe]

Poor thing. Looks like nobody gives a lot of shit anymore about a weirdo who does a lot of composing copypastas and rants about mj stans, just like 3ball that nobody takes him seriously anymore. But yes, keep on clinging like a damned leech to those who share your views against jordan.