With 92' Pippen at peak 21/7/7, the bulls still needed goat volume from MJ, so

[3ball]

who has any sort of history taking 26.4 fga at 50% and could therefore win in MJ's place in the Playoffs?

That's why no one could win in MJ's shoes - only he could take the required volume efficiently

Ultimately, the bulls required that MJ use 35% of possessions at 118 ortg per possession... No one is close to this volume/efficiency combo.. if we asked lebron to shoot that much, his efficiency would plummet and turnovers skyrocket, like the 15' Playoffs.. so he wouldn't have the required efficiency at the higher volume.

[LeCroix]

Uhhhh hello???

1st post how many selfish idiot players ever even TOOK 26.4 fga for a series??

[3ball]

Uhhhh hello???

1st post how many selfish idiot players ever even TOOK 26.4 fga for a series??

Pippen was already at his maximum production, so 26.4 fga was required of the #1 option

But those 26 fga must be taken at 50% fg

Who else in history could take 26 fga at 50%?

does anyone have ANY SORT OF HISTORY doing this? only mj?

[LeCroix]

Pippen was already at his maximum production, so 26.4 fga was required of the #1 option

But those 26 fga must be taken at 50% fg

Who else in history could take 26 fga at 50%?

does anyone have ANY SORT OF HISTORY doing this? only mj?

Uhhhh hello???

1st off how many selfish idiot players ever even TOOK 26.4 fga for a series??

[3ball]

Uhhhh hello???

1st off how many selfish idiot players ever even TOOK 26.4 fga for a series??




Only MJ had to - with Pippen already at his maximum production, 26.4 fga was required of the #1 option

But those 26 fga must be taken at 50% fg

Who else in history could take 26 fga at 50%?

does anyone have ANY SORT OF HISTORY doing this? only mj?

[LeCroix]

Uhhhh hello???

1st of all, how many selfish idiot players ever even TOOK 26.4 fga for a series??

[3ball]

Uhhhh hello???

1st of all, how many selfish idiot players ever even TOOK 26.4 fga for a series??
With Pippen already at his maximum production, 26.4 fga was required of the #1 option

But those 26 fga must be taken at 50% fg

Who else in history could take 26 fga at 50%?

does anyone have ANY SORT OF HISTORY doing this? only mj?

[LeCroix]

With Pippen already at his maximum production, 26.4 fga was required of the #1 option

But those 26 fga must be taken at 50% fg

Who else in history could take 26 fga at 50%?

does anyone have ANY SORT OF HISTORY doing this? only mj?

You gonna answer my question or are you shook again like always when I come around?

Uhhhh hello???

1st of all, how many selfish idiot players ever even TOOK 26.4 fga for a series??

[3ball]

You gonna answer my question or are you shook again like always when I come around?

Uhhhh hello???

1st of all, how many selfish idiot players ever even TOOK 26.4 fga for a series??

I answered your question

MJ took that many shots because the Bulls required it

With Pippen already at his maximum production, 26.4 fga was required of the #1 option

But those 26 fga must be taken at 50% fg

Who else in history could take 26 fga at 50%?

does anyone have ANY SORT OF HISTORY doing this? only mj?

[LeCroix]

I answered your question

MJ took that many shots because the Bulls required it

With Pippen already at his maximum production, 26.4 fga was required of the #1 option

But those 26 fga must be taken at 50% fg

Who else in history could take 26 fga at 50%?

does anyone have ANY SORT OF HISTORY doing this? only mj?

You did not answer. Your shook again

How
Many
Players
Ever
Took
26.4
Fga
For
A
Series
Like
Selfish
Mj
?

[3ball]

You did not answer. Your shook again

How
Many
Players
Ever
Took
26.4
Fga
For
A
Series
Like
Selfish
Mj
?

With Pippen already at his maximum production, 26.4 fga was required of the #1 option

But those 26 fga must be taken at 50% fg

Who else in history could take 26 fga at 50%?

does anyone have ANY SORT OF HISTORY doing this? only mj?

[warriorfan]

I answered your question

MJ took that many shots because the Bulls required it

With Pippen already at his maximum production, 26.4 fga was required of the #1 option

But those 26 fga must be taken at 50% fg

Who else in history could take 26 fga at 50%?

does anyone have ANY SORT OF HISTORY doing this? only mj?

When LeBron tried to attempt higher than 25 FGA in the Finals his efficiency suffered tremendously. When shooting that kind of volume his FG% plummeted to Allen Iverson type levels (39%). LeBron wasn’t able to succeed without Kyrie carrying a huge load offensively. LeBron couldn’t carry an offense like Jordan. In fact Kyrie Irving had more FGA than LeBron in 2017... LeBron’s offense wasn’t diverse enough to push the issue and be able to attempt 25 Field Goals a game...and be able to do it effectively and efficiently.

[LeCroix]

When LeBron tried to attempt higher than 25 FGA in the Finals his efficiency suffered tremendously. When shooting that kind of volume his FG% plummeted to Allen Iverson type levels (39%). LeBron wasn’t able to succeed without Kyrie carrying a huge load offensively. LeBron couldn’t carry an offense like Jordan. In fact Kyrie Irving had more FGA than LeBron in 2017... LeBron’s offense wasn’t diverse enough to push the issue and be able to attempt 25 Field Goals a game...and be able to do it effectively and efficiently.

Brons last 2 Finals

34/10/10 on 55%

Find a better 2 year Finals strech

Bye

[Smoke117]

OP is long overdue for his 2 week ban already...kblaze? You are really lazing it around this time. How many of this deranged nonsensical thread do we have to read this time before you block him for awhile so he can go and compile his archives? . smirk

[Smoke117]

When LeBron tried to attempt higher than 25 FGA in the Finals his efficiency suffered tremendously. When shooting that kind of volume his FG% plummeted to Allen Iverson type levels (39%). LeBron wasn’t able to succeed without Kyrie carrying a huge load offensively. LeBron couldn’t carry an offense like Jordan. In fact Kyrie Irving had more FGA than LeBron in 2017... LeBron’s offense wasn’t diverse enough to push the issue and be able to attempt 25 Field Goals a game...and be able to do it effectively and efficiently.

These pathetic crack had attempts you run your mouth at are just that...it's also really amusing considering Jordan stans want to bury your crush Steph as much as they want to bury Bran. You'd think you would pick your battles better...but the crack and all. *smirk*

[BigShotBob]

Pippen is overrated but his peak year was probably 92-93. 93-94 was great and all but his game got exposed in the playoffs because he has a very limited offensive game.

[post]

With Pippen already at his maximum production, 26.4 fga was required of the #1 option

But those 26 fga must be taken at 50% fg

Who else in history could take 26 fga at 50%?

does anyone have ANY SORT OF HISTORY doing this? only mj?

64 playoffs wilt took 26.8 fga at 54.3% for 34.7 ppg and didn't win a ring

95 playoffs hakeem took 26.2 fga at 53.1% for 33.0 ppg and won a ring

[post]

64 playoffs wilt took 26.8 fga at 54.3% for 34.7 ppg and didn't win a ring

95 playoffs hakeem took 26.2 fga at 53.1% for 33.0 ppg and won a ring

66 playoffs west took 25.5 fga at 51.8% for 34.2 ppg and didn't win a ring

if west had taken 26.4 fga instead with the same number of makes his fg% would drop to 50%

[Roundball_Rock]

MJ had no help! Look at the top 5 "cast members" in the 1992 NBA finals by game score:

1992 Finals: Pippen 18.1, Porter 12.5, Grant 11.3, Kersey 10.7, Paxson 7.6

What was Drexler's game score you may ask? 18.4. So Chicago's second best player matched Portland's best player.

Imagine what Michael J. Jordan would have done if he ever got some help! :bowdown:



Pippen is overrated but his peak year was probably 92-93. 93-94 was great and all but his game got exposed in the playoffs because he has a very limited offensive game.

:biggums:

That was the worst season of his prime...clearly you didn't watch him play.

[post]

66 playoffs west took 25.5 fga at 51.8% for 34.2 ppg and didn't win a ring

if west had taken 26.4 fga instead with the same number of makes his fg% would drop to 50%

84 playoffs bernard king took 23.5 fga at 57.4% for 34.8 ppg and didn't win a ring

if king took 3 more shots per game and missed all of them he still would've shot 51%

[RRR3]

In the 18 playoffs LeBron took 23.2 FGA at 53.9% for 34.0 PPG. If he had taken 62 more shots in order to average 26 shots a game, he would have only needed to hit 11 of those shots (17.7%) to have averaged 50% shooting.

[3ball]

.
... Lebron


https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-05-2020/ZbR8ps.gif



... Jordan


https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-05-2020/L1pcT7.gif



... Lebron


https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-05-2020/hOIWSf.gif



... Jordan


https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-05-2020/K0eDss.gif









In the 18 playoffs LeBron took 23.2 FGA at 53.9% for 34.0 PPG. If he had taken 62 more shots in order to average 26 shots a game, he would have only needed to hit 11 of those shots (17.7%) to have averaged 50% shooting.




We have a 17-year career of stats and a meltdown at the end of the game 1 to show us that 23 shots per game is nearing the edges of Lebron's limit - another 3 shots reaches a level that he's only been at once in 2015.. it doesn't make sense to assume he can start using an additional 3 possessions/shots per game for an entire playoffs when he was already at his limit and performing his ass off at an older age.

Secondly, lebron's time of possession was 11 minutes per game in the 18' Playoffs, or 30% higher than Harden's 9 minutes - aka a preposterous brand of playground ball-dominance that obviously got destroyed in the championship..

lebron's time of possession in 18' nearly broke the record he set in 2015, when his 1-time mj-level usage and fga causes a precipitous dip in his normal ortg and fg %.. specifically, he was poor at the additional mid-range jumpshooting required of high volume - he shot 17% outside of 5 feet.. so actually, not far off from your 11% or whatever you said...

Finally, notice how 91' and 96' required only a HUMAN level of volume and usage - those are the only years when anyone else could've won... Except even that would require team development and meshing with teammates to overcome the Pistons.. MJ has a great history fitting with wings or system while lebron doesn't.

[RRR3]

Insane babbling spamfest
All LeBron had to do to meet your arbitrary criteria in the 2018 playoffs was take 62 more shots and hit 11 of them. If you don't think LeBron is capable of hitting 11 out of 62 shots, you're the dumbest person of all time.

[3ball]

All LeBron had to do to meet your arbitrary criteria in the 2018 playoffs was take 62 more shots and hit 11 of them. If you don't think LeBron is capable of hitting 11 out of 62 shots, you're the dumbest person of all time.

He isn't capable of using an extra 3 possessions when he's already at his limit.. makes no sense

We have 17 years of proof

Otoh, you're asking me to accept something that didn't happen.. I think mj won 10 titles then

[LeCroix]

Imagine forgetting that Lebron carried the goat rebounding reburden

playoffs averaging 8.0 rebounds or more per year

lebron has
11

jordan has
zero :(

mj is a scorer...lebron is a PLAYER

[Roundball_Rock]

All LeBron had to do to meet your arbitrary criteria in the 2018 playoffs was take 62 more shots and hit 11 of them. If you don't think LeBron is capable of hitting 11 out of 62 shots, you're the dumbest person of all time.

:lol

The issue of "help" is litigating all the time. Let's recap the various evidence presented:

Jordan Had More Help Side

HOF players, all-NBA players, game scores in series, team performance without Jordan, win totals, SRS data are all presented to say Jordan had more help.

Everybody but Jordan Had More Help Side

Cherry picked PPG totals.

That's it. That is basically the entire "case" that poor MJ had no help.

[RRR3]

insane, retarded ramblings
One of the best scorers of all time couldn't have taken 62 mores shots and hit 17.7% of them. Got it. You're officially the dumbest poster on ISH.

[post]

One of the best scorers of all time couldn't have taken 62 mores shots and hit 17.7% of them. Got it. You're officially the dumbest poster on ISH.

another example:

78 playoffs george gervin took 23.7 fga at 54.9% for 33.2 ppg

if he took 16 more total shots and made 1 he would've averaged 26.3 fga and shot 50%

[RRR3]

another example:

78 playoffs george gervin took 23.7 fga at 54.9% for 33.2 ppg

if he took 16 more total shots and made 1 he would've averaged 26.3 fga and shot 50%
George Gervin was incapable of taking 16 more shots and hitting 1 according to 3braincells' logic.

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

.




Cherry picked PPG totals.

That's the entire "case" that poor MJ had no help.




Points is what the scoreboard counts and therefore defines "help"... That's why it's mentioned the most - you can win with less assists or rebounds, but never less points.. We already know that high personal assists are often accompanied by low team assists, ball movement and weaker teams (in other words who cares about apg - high personal apg is bad)





HOF players




Lebron played with 4 likely HOF'ers based on bballref (Wade, Kyrie, Bosh, Love).. and Riley is HOF... Spo probably will be too and Blatt might be too.

Otoh, MJ played with only 2 HOF (Pippen/Rodman), and Phil is offset by Riley, and Kukoc offset by AD/Ingram/Spo - all possible HOF's





all-NBA players




Rodman was all-nba before joining jordan, just like Bosh and Love.. he was all-defense in 96', but so was Varejao in 10'

Otherwise, it's just Wade vs Pippen, where Wade's stats and peak accomplishment as #1 or #2 option is superior to Pippen's.





game scores in series



Your data shows that during championship runs, lebron had 4 series without the leading sidekick gamescore, and Jordan 3 series

In the losing years, jordan's 80's casts were easily weaker than lebron's losing years

Hope that helps and thanks for the data





team performance without Jordan




Jordan's quality of basketball/quality of team was falling from a higher place - 3-peat - while lebron's teams are falling from record loss status (where they already looked worse than Western 1st round team)






win totals


MJ had record team ORtg's with less offensive help, so his teams were far superior and won the attrition battle on the championship level

Lebron must be knocked for winning 51 with peak kyrie and 58 with peak Wade/Bosh, therefore being underdogs despite having 70-win, juggernaut talent... You can't turn these facts into "his underwhelming records = weak cast"... It's his fault for barely winning 50 with prime top talent.. ball-dominance simply results in WEAKER TEAMS





SRS data




Yes lebron never beat a good team (top 5 SRS) without 20 ppg from sidekick, while MJ routinely won with 15-16 on horrible efficiency from sidekick.. So only MJ had meaningful carry-jobs (against good teams)
.

[Roundball_Rock]

Points is what the scoreboard counts and therefore defines "help"..

:facepalm

There are many things that go into winning a game but that helps explain a lot about you. :lol


Lebron played with 4 likely HOF'ers based on bballref (Wade, Kyrie, Bosh, Love).. and Riley is HOF... Spo probably will be too and Blatt might be too.

Otoh, MJ played with only 2 HOF (Pippen/Rodman), and Phil is offset by Riley, and Kukoc offset by AD/Ingram/Spo - all possible HOF's

:oldlol: at counting the GM for Miami but not for Chicago. You also aren't counting Tex Winter for Chicago.

The real question is HOF versus the comp.

HOF Comparison for Jordan's Teams

1991 ECF: 2 versus 3
1991 Finals: 2 versus 3
1992 ECF: 2 versus 0
1992 Finals: 2 versus 1
1993 ECF: 2 versus 1
1993 Finals: 2 versus 1
1996 ECF: 3 versus 1
1996 Finals: 3 versus 1
1997 ECF: 4 versus 1
1997 Finals: 4 versus 2
1998 ECF: 3 versus 2
1998 Finals: 3 versus 2

Finals totals: CHI 16-10 in the Finals. 15-9 if you exclude Divac (a 1x all-star) and an old Parish.
ECF totals: CHI 16-8 in the ECF. 15-7 if you exclude a washed up Mullin and an old Parish.

For prime Kareem (1970-1980) it was 8-10 in the Finals (7-10 minus a washed Haywood who played 13 MPG), 12-15 in the WC minus Haywood.

LeBron has a mixed verdict. He has a deficit in the finals but a big edge in the finals.

Jordan has the clear advantage: he consistently went into nearly every series with more HOF players on his side--and that isn't counting his HOF coaches (2) and his HOF GM using your logic.


Rodman was all-nba before joining jordan

And? Cartwright, Oakley, Grant, Armstrong, Rodman, Hamilton, Stackhouse were all all-stars before or after MJ (not including Gilmore, Parish, and Gervin for obvious reasons) but not with MJ. MJ supposedly made his teammates better but they all consistently did better without him.


Your data shows that during championship runs, lebron had 4 series without the leading sidekick gamescore, and Jordan 3 series


This is pathetic. He is comparing 3 of 12 to 4 of 8. :roll: Moreover, he needs to replace Wade (he was 4th in the 11' ECF among "cast members") with Bosh just to get Miami to 4-4 parity. Pippen outplayed Hardaway in the 97' ECF, he just got hurt in Game 5 7 minutes into the game and recorded a 3.2 game score.

To recap: Chicago had a 9-3 edge in having the top "cast" member (10-2 de facto counting the 97' ECF).
Miami had a 4-4 tie.

Moreover, Chicago's sidekick was never lower than #2 among cast members. Wade was #4 in the 11' ECF and #7 in the 14' finals.


Jordan's quality of basketball/quality of team was falling from a higher place - 3-peat - while lebron's teams are falling

57 wins to 55 and 54 wins to 37. No way to spin this.

[post]

George Gervin was incapable of taking 16 more shots and hitting 1 according to 3braincells' logic.

kareem wouldn't have to make a single shot in 70, 74, and 77 and he would've averaged well over 30 ppg on 50% and 26 shots

same applies for him in 80 when he won his second ring

jordan and kareem each had 4 playoff years where they either took 26 shots per game and shot 50% with over 30 ppg or in kareem's case would've even if he missed all his extra shots

for hakeem it applies in 88 and 95

[Elosha]

You did not answer. Your shook again

How
Many
Players
Ever
Took
26.4
Fga
For
A
Series
Like
Selfish
Mj
?

You're really stupid. With all Jordan's individual and team success, you're trying to argue that he should have done it differently?? That he should have shot less? News flash, it worked out goddamn well for him. :facepalm

[LeCroix]

You're really stupid. With all Jordan's individual and team success, you're trying to argue that he should have done it differently?? That he should have shot less? News flash, it worked out goddamn well for him. :facepalm

where did i say he should have done it differently? you're really stupid...plus this 'logic' can be used agaisnt pippen haters


think to this idiots:
"WE DONT WANT PIPPEN, IT ONLY WOKRED OUT TO BE 6 RINGS, IT WASNT THAT MUCH HELP"

idiot :facepalm:

[Roundball_Rock]

MJ stans can't have it both ways: harp on scoring all the time while ignoring that MJ took a record level of FGA. When one player is taking 25, 30, 33 shots per game how much is left for the rest of the team?

[3ball]

And? Cartwright, Oakley, Grant, Armstrong, Rodman, Hamilton, Stackhouse were all all-stars before or after MJ (not including Gilmore, Parish, and Gervin for obvious reasons) but not with MJ. MJ supposedly made his teammates better but they all consistently did better without him.



Lebron had Shaq, Ben Wallace and Derrick Rose, but you don't see me including them

I only cite guys that are all-star caliber and producing as such when lebron acquired them, like Jamison, Hughes, Wade, Kyrie, Bosh, Love, Zydrunas, Mo - that's far more all-star-caliber help than MJ had (only Pippen)... Lebron played with FAR more good players...

So MJ had less all-caliber help then lebron, and his opponents too - the Pistons' starting 5 were all 3x all-stars except Rodman (2x)... So MJ overcame a 3 all-star deficit.. MJ infact faced a deficit in all-star caliber teammates versus basically every team he faced, even 1st round teams -






HOF Comparison for Jordan's Teams

1991 ECF: 2 versus 3
1991 Finals: 2 versus 3
1992 ECF: 2 versus 0
1992 Finals: 2 versus 1
1993 ECF: 2 versus 1
1993 Finals: 2 versus 1
1996 ECF: 3 versus 1
1996 Finals: 3 versus 1
1997 ECF: 4 versus 1
1997 Finals: 4 versus 2
1998 ECF: 3 versus 2
1998 Finals: 3 versus 2




Rodman averaged 4/8 for the entire 97' Playoffs and wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs (4/8 in Finals)

He was 36 so counting him as HOF is like counting Shaq as HOF in 2010.. Shaq actually had better numbers

The rest of your breakdown contains similar crap like that

The entire idea of comparing sidekick stats of a 2-star team to a Big 3 makes no sense because Wade/kyrie had to share with a 3rd star scorer while Pippen didn't... So all your stats are bad and the overall casts show mj with weaker total casts (lowest-scoring casts ever)

Ultimately, MJ faced a deficit in all-star caliber teammates versus basically every team he faced, even 1st round teams - why don't you do an analysis of all-star-caliber teammates - omit old guys like Shaq/Ben Wallace or Gervin/Cartwright and only use guys like 91' Pippen or 10' Jamison that were recent all-stars and still producing at all-star level.





This is pathetic. He is comparing 3 of 12 to 4 of 8. :roll: Moreover, he needs to replace Wade (he was 4th in the 11' ECF among "cast members") with Bosh just to get Miami to 4-4 parity. Pippen outplayed Hardaway in the 97' ECF, he just got hurt in Game 5 7 minutes into the game and recorded a 3.2 game score.



Lebron had Big 3's so his #2 option shared with a 3rd star scorer, while Pippen didn't... and also lebron's opponents didn't because they didn't have big 3's either






57 wins to 55 and 54 wins to 37. No way to spin this


.
Yes, it makes lebron look horrible compared to the almighty GOAT






Michael had more help relative to his comp




only the Heat/Spurs and Cavs/Warriors had 3 perennial all-stars, aka "big 3's"... Everyone else was a joke matchup, whereas the Finals standard was only 2 stars in previous eras so more teams were close and competitive

[3ball]

.
How could lebron shoot 26 fga at 50%? When did he ever do that?.. so how could he win in 92' (or any year) when he can't fulfill the volume/efficiency requirements?


https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-28-2020/hyp2rb.gif

[Manny98]

Pippen literally outplayed Drexler on the biggest stage that year

21/8/8 off 48% with elite defense > 25/5/6 off 40% with average defense

Pippen > Peak Drexler

[3ball]

Pippen literally outplayed Drexler on the biggest stage that year

21/8/8 off 48% with elite defense > 25/5/6 off 40% with average defense

Pippen > Peak Drexler

Drexler's peak stats = lebron's career stats and exceed various lebron playoff runs.. Pip is nowhere near Drexler

And pippen didn't guard Drexler/got to rest on defense but still only averaged 21, barely half of MJ's 36.

1992 = greatest 2-way carry job ever (MJ guarded Drexler and scored 16 more than Pip) <---- when did Bron do that?

[Manny98]

Drexler's peak stats = lebron's career stats and exceed various lebron playoff runs.. Pip is nowhere near Drexler

And pippen didn't guard Drexler/got to rest on defense but still only averaged 21, barely half of MJ's 36.

1992 = greatest 2-way carry job ever (MJ guarded Drexler and scored 16 more than Pip) <---- when did Bron do that?
Be honest would you rather have


21/8/8 off 48% with elite defense

Or

25/5/6 off 40% with average defense

[3ball]

Be honest would you rather have


21/8/8 off 48% with elite defense

Or

25/5/6 off 40% with average defense

87-92' Drexler... 25/7/6 on 49% (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drexlcl01.html#1988-1992-sum:per_game)

^^^ That's better than kobe's career stats and basically equal to bron's

But no one noticed Drexler in the Northwest because of MJ and other stars like Bird/Magic..

Drexler's steals/blocks basically match Pippen's and his Blazers had superior defenses than the bulls with less defensive help - Drexler was an all-league caliber defender but was forgotten in the Northwest

[Lebron23]

Jordan played with Wooldridge, Gervin, Hughes, Hamilton, and Stackhouse all elite 20 or more ppg scorers during their prime, but they never produced any wins unlike Pippen with Jordan. Pippen averaged 21/7/7 and gave your team elite defense.

[Manny98]

87-92' Drexler... 25/7/6 on 49% (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drexlcl01.html#1988-1992-sum:per_game)

^^^ That's better than kobe's career stats and basically equal to bron's

But no one noticed Drexler in the Northwest because of MJ and other stars like Bird/Magic..

Drexler's steals/blocks basically match Pippen's and his Blazers had superior defenses than the bulls with less defensive help - Drexler was an all-league caliber defender but was forgotten in the Northwest
Why did you duck the question :oldlol:

You know damm well that Pippen outplayed Drexler in the 92 finals you just don't want to accept that MJ had a teammate that was on the same level as peak Drexler, arguably better

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan played with Wooldridge, Gervin, Hughes, Hamilton, and Stackhouse all elite 20 or more ppg scorers during their prime, but they never produced any wins unlike Pippen with Jordan. Pippen averaged 21/7/7 and gave your team elite defense.

:applause: Bingo! I love how they go on and on about how MJ would win with any random 20 PPG scorer when he in fact had that and won nothing.

Don't forget Oakley. He was 15/13 in Chicago and 20/15 in the playoffs the year before Pippen, Grant got there.

(One caveat, Gervin was shot by the playoffs that year and averaged something like 5 PPG but the others are legit points.)


You know damm well that Pippen outplayed Drexler in the 92 finals you just don't want to accept that MJ had a teammate that was on the same level as peak Drexler, arguably better

Yup. :oldlol: You know who thinks Pippen>peak Drexler? Jordan himself after watching Drexler, Pippen, Magic (retired), Stockton play together as the Dream Team guards.

92' Pippen wasn't peak Pippen, for the record. Peak Pippen was 1994-1996. Prime Pippen was 1991-1998.

[Rico2016]

BREAKING:

This just in, player who shoots 30 times per game scores way more than teammate who only shoots 13 and rebounds, passes and actually plays defense.

You are illogically narrowing down basketball to one factor, which is frankly disingenous. Imagine if we did the same thing with LBJ and all his teammates regarding only one category too: assists. It would be just as dumb as your hot takes.

[3ball]

:applause: Bingo! I love how they go on and on about how MJ would win with any random 20 PPG scorer when he in fact had that and won nothing.

Don't forget Oakley. He was 15/13 in Chicago and 20/15 in the playoffs the year before Pippen, Grant got there.

(One caveat, Gervin was shot by the playoffs that year and averaged something like 5 PPG but the others are legit points.)



Yup. :oldlol: You know who thinks Pippen>peak Drexler? Jordan himself after watching Drexler, Pippen, Magic (retired), Stockton play together as the Dream Team guards.

92' Pippen wasn't peak Pippen, for the record. Peak Pippen was 1994-1996. Prime Pippen was 1991-1998.


Every year other forwards or 2nd options were out-performing Pippen against the exact same comp:



Pippen vs 88' Pistons.. 10 on 46%
Worthy vs 88' Pistons.. 22 on 49% (fmvp)

Pippen vs 89' Pistons... 10 on 40%
Worthy vs 89' Pistons... 26 on 48%

Pippen vs 90' Pistons... 16 on 41%
Drexler vs 90' Pistons... 26 on 54%
Kersey vs 90' Pistons... 19 on 48%
K Duck vs 90' Pistons... 16 on 47%

Pip vs 91' Lakers... 21/9/7.. on 50%
KJ. vs 90' Lakers... 22/7/11 on 48% (wcf)

Pip vs 92 Blazers... 20/9/7.. on 50%
KJ. vs 92 Blazers... 22/2/11 on 54% (wcf)

Pippen vs 93' Suns... 21 on 45.9 ts
Pierce. vs 93' Suns... 20 on 66.2 ts
Kemp...vs 93' Suns... 20 on 62.2 ts

Pippen vs 94' Knicks... 22 on 41%
Miller'.. vs 94' Knicks... 25 on 44%

Pippen vs 95' Magic... 19 on 40%
Drexler vs 95' Magic... 22 on 45%

Pippen vs 99' Kobe... 18 on 33%
Miller.. vs 00' Kobe.... 24 on 40%

[Roundball_Rock]

You know there is more to basketball than scoring? Let's play the 3ball game with Ewing, the superstar on the Bull's top 90's rival.

Ewing vs. Celtics 88' 18.8 PPG
Wilkins vs. Celtics 88' 31.3 PPG
Thomas vs. Celtics 88' 23.0 PPG

Ewing vs. Bulls 89' 17.0 PPG
Harper vs. Bulls 89' 19.6 PPG
Nance vs. Bulls 89' 19.4 PPG
Thomas vs. Bulls 89' 20.7 PPG

Ewing vs. Pistons 90' 27.2 PPG
Jordan vs. Pistons 90' 32.1 PPG
Drexler vs. Pistos 90' 26.4 PPG

Ewing vs. Bulls 91' 16.7 PPG
Vandeweghe vs. Bulls 91' 17.0 PPG
Barkley vs. Bulls 91' 25.6 PPG
Hawkins vs. Bulls 91' 19.8 PPG
Gilliam vs. Bulls 91' 16.2 PPG
V. Johnson vs. Bulls 91' 21.0 PPG
Aguirre vs. Bulls 91' 16.8 PPG
Thomas vs. Bulls 91' 16.5 PPG
Magic vs. Bulls 91' 18.6 PPG
Divac vs. Bulls 91' 18.2 PPG
Worthy vs. Bulls 91' 19.3 PPG
Perkins vs. Bulls 91' 16.6 PPG

Ewing vs. Bulls 92' 22.1 PPG
Seiklay vs. Bulls 92' 20.7 PPG
Rice vs. Bulls 92' 19.0 PPG
Price vs. Bulls 92' 18.5 PPG
Drexler vs. Bulls 92' 25.8 PPG

Ewing vs. Bulls 93' 25.8 PPG
Wilkins vs. Bulls 93' 30.0 PPG
Barkley vs. Bulls 93' 27.3 PPG

Ewing vs. Rockets 94' 18.9 PPG
Starks vs. Rockets 94' 17.7 PPG
D. Harper vs. Rockets 94' 16.4 PPG
Strickland vs. Rockets 94' 23.5 PPG
Drexler vs. Rockets 94' 21.0 PPG
Johnson vs. Rockets 94' 26.6 PPG
Barkley vs. Rockets 94' 23.4 PPG
Malone vs. Rockets 94' 26.0 PPG
Hornacek vs. Rockets 94' 17.0 PPG

I'm going to stop there but man, Ewing must have sucked, right? His PPG is inflated by the heavy volume he got but even with that he routinely is getting crushed by other #1's or matched or exceeded by #2's, #3's and even #4's who actually were efficient? Even Derek Harper, his 4th option was a better scorer than him in a NBA finals.

No wonder MJ has 6 rings. This is the "competition" he had?

[3ball]

.

No wonder MJ has 6 rings. This is the "competition" he had?



Your post showed random series and unrelated players, while my post was more coherent with clear connections and more obvious discrepancies.. this'll is obvious.. nice try though..

your overly defensive and panicked (somewhat jumbled) response shows that the Pippen data hit a nerve (Pip's production wasn't anywhere near the best against the teams the bulls played)

[Rico2016]

Imagine your best ring is against Jeff Hornacek

#NotMyGoat

[Roundball_Rock]

Imagine your best ring is against Jeff Hornacek

#NotMyGoat

Stockton averaged 9.7 PPG in the 98' finals, Hornacek 10.7. That is 20.4 combined--Kukoc averaged 3/4 of that as the Bull's fourth best player. :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Stockton averaged 9.7 PPG in the 98' finals, Hornacek 10.7. That is 20.4 combined--Kukoc averaged 3/4 of that as the Bull's fourth best player. :oldlol:

Kukoc was their 2nd option for half the series due to Pippen being injured. Jordan had to score over half of his team's points to win the close-out game by a hair.

[Roundball_Rock]

Kukoc was their 2nd option for half the series due to Pippen being injured.

That is false but I actually watched the series. You sure do love to talk about it without having watched any of it. The games are all on YouTube...

MJ stans again just saying anything hoping they don't get fact checked.

It is a deflection anyway. Stockton and Hornacek had the same role for all 6 games. Did nothing...it doesn't take much to outscore 20.4 PPG combined from the #2 and #3 on the other team...