Look, Lebron had his chances

[Walk on Water]

Mike simply did more with less. Better scorer and defender. And when you take turnovers into account he’s better at passing. Period.

Lebron had his chances. He played with so many superstars. Dywayne Wade, Bosh, Love, and Irving. And he even had one year playing with IT, Wade, Love, Rose and many others.

He played with way more all stars than Jordan did.

Imagine Lebron trying to make a documentary. It would be flooded with failure. The only thing he could put in there is 2016, but they would have to cover all the things that went against their opponent, not to mention losing the next 2 Finals.

Lebron had his chances and many times did not capitalize.

[DoctorP]

LeBron is a hell of a player and dominated this era. Yeah hes not the greatest ever but oh well

[Roundball_Rock]

MJ having no help is a major Jordan mythologist myth. LeBron's teams are lottery teams without him.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png?w=1150

[Monta Ellis MVP]

Mike simply did more with less. Better scorer and defender. And when you take turnovers into account he’s better at passing. Period.

Lebron had his chances. He played with so many superstars. Dywayne Wade, Bosh, Love, and Irving. And he even had one year playing with IT, Wade, Love, Rose and many others.

He played with way more all stars than Jordan did.

Imagine Lebron trying to make a documentary. It would be flooded with failure. The only thing he could put in there is 2016, but they would have to cover all the things that went against their opponent, not to mention losing the next 2 Finals.

Lebron had his chances and many times did not capitalize.

I am a big Pacers fan and also a LeBron fan but after watching this documentary I am not sure if LeBron is my GOAT. I was thinking if they did one on LeBron they might have to edit out quite a lot. Maybe it can be 2 or 3 part series instead and focus on only the wins. That might work.

[red1]

lebron did something that jordan never did - he brought a trophy to his hometown and broke his hometown's 50+ year sports curse



Im not saying he's the better player the documentary could definitely be 100x better

[DoctorP]

lebron did something that jordan never did - he brought a trophy to his hometown and broke his hometown's 50+ year sports curse



Im not saying he's the better player the documentary could definitely be 100x better

:lol

awww

[red1]

:lol

awww

Im just responding to OP's point.


OP's point about it being hard to make a documentary is retarded. I think lebron has had the most documented and interesting career that I've seen.


so as per usual with OP - just no.



you're a ****ing retard as well DoctorP.

[Goldrush25]

Lebron still has 5-6 more years left. Why don't we see how he finishes before we declare this thing over?

[bullettooth]

If there's ever a documentary on LeBron, I fully expect there to be two more about Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. Because THAT is LeBron's legacy... for LIFE.

[red1]

If there's ever a documentary on LeBron, I fully expect there to be two more about Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. Because THAT is LeBron's legacy... for LIFE.
you have 4.5k posts and the only thing you've ever posted about is lbj or the same shit hating on the raptors or toronto as a city.


what team are you even a fan of? all you post is "bran ban" "craptors" "tronto sux"


prove me wrong bitch.

[bullettooth]

you have 4.5k posts and the only thing you've ever posted about is lbj or the same shit hating on the raptors or toronto as a city.


what team are you even a fan of? all you post is "bran ban" "craptors" "tronto sux"


prove me wrong bitch.

bran ban craptors tronto sux.

Happy now?

[red1]

bran ban craptors tronto sux.

Happy now?

that's what I thought bitch. you dont even have a team.


that's literally all you post. you've been posting that same shit for 2 years including these playoffs, try to switch it up once in a while.


FYI we won ****** I remember you saying last year during the playoffs and finals that the warriors would win - even though they were injured as shit.


suck my dick bitch. the craptors won. deal with it. :oldlol:

[DoctorP]

Im just responding to OP's point.


OP's point about it being hard to make a documentary is retarded. I think lebron has had the most documented and interesting career that I've seen.


so as per usual with OP - just no.



you're a ****ing retard as well DoctorP.

:lol

salty much?

Jordan brought 6 titles to a floundering franchise that was going out of business.

and had never won a title.

[RogueBorg]

lebron did something that jordan never did - he brought a trophy to his hometown and broke his hometown's 50+ year sports curse


That's true. Cleveland hadn't won any championships in any sport since 1964. He's revered in Ohio.

[red1]

:lol

salty much?

Jordan brought 6 titles to a floundering franchise that was going out of business.

and had never won a title.

what would I be salty about? OP is trolling anyways so Im just letting him know his troll game is lame and pathetic like always.


and the reason I called you a ****ing retard is because you post like a scatterbrained moron. I think that's absolutely fair.

[red1]

That's true. Cleveland hadn't won any championships in any sport since 1964. He's revered in Ohio.

I havent seen the jordan documentary yet Im still saving it for a binge and its almost done


sports documentaries are probably the easiest shit ever to make hell we watch documentaries and specials on scrubs. so OF COURSE a definitive documentary on mj, from mj himself would be an event

[RogueBorg]

I havent seen the jordan documentary yet Im still saving it for a binge and its almost done


sports documentaries are probably the easiest shit ever to make hell we watch documentaries and specials on scrubs. so OF COURSE a definitive documentary on mj, from mj himself would be an event

Throw on top of it all we're all mostly sitting at home with no sports, nothing to do, nothing to talk about in sports and this comes out. How perfect is that timing for him?

My wife keeps commenting on his eyes and that he's sick. He doesn't look well.

[bullettooth]

that's what I thought bitch. you dont even have a team.


that's literally all you post. you've been posting that same shit for 2 years including these playoffs, try to switch it up once in a while.


FYI we won ****** I remember you saying last year during the playoffs and finals that the warriors would win - even though they were injured as shit.


suck my dick bitch. the craptors won. deal with it. :oldlol:

LOL, so salty. Enjoy your single fluke championship while it lasts... because noone else remembers it.

[red1]

Throw on top of it all we're all mostly sitting at home with no sports, nothing to do, nothing to talk about in sports and this comes out. How perfect is that timing for him?

My wife keeps commenting on his eyes and that he's sick. He doesn't look well.

Im actually looking forward to it - Im treating it like a multi-part movies series marathon drinking whiskey and smoking blunts


which is probably what he does all day in his mansion - drinks the best whiskey and smokes cigars you cant get anywhere :oldlol:

[red1]

LOL, so salty. Enjoy your single fluke championship while it lasts... because noone else remembers it.

you talked trash nonstop all year and are still talking trash nonstop - suck my dick bitch you had the warriors last year. I still remember. it was even after the injuries.


deal with it *****. you were wrong, you lost.


craps won. deal with it.

[bullettooth]

you talked trash nonstop all year and are still talking trash nonstop - suck my dick bitch you had the warriors last year. I still remember. it was even after the injuries.


deal with it *****. you were wrong, you lost.


craps won. deal with it.

LOL, why are you lying? I never trash talked the raptors. I didnt care who won as long as LeBald wasn't in the picture anymore. I actually usually root for an underdog anyway and prefer seeing NEW champions as well. But hey, keep making shit up if it makes you feel better.

Try not to be so salty! Perhaps moving out of Toronto would help your case, I heard people are shitheads there.

[red1]

LOL, why are you lying? I never trash talked the raptors. I didnt care who won as long as LeBald wasn't in the picture anymore. I actually usually root for an underdog anyway and prefer seeing NEW champions as well. But hey, keep making shit up if it makes you feel better.

Try not to be so salty! Perhaps moving out of Toronto would help your case, I heard people are shitheads there.

shut the **** up you lying ******. yes - you did exactly what I said. you trashed raptors fans as well.


you still havent told us what your team is, and you STILL havent posted anything other than "bran bran bran" or "raptors and tronto sux"


dumbass.

[bullettooth]

shut the **** up you lying ******. yes - you did exactly what I said. you trashed raptors fans as well.


you still havent told us what your team is, and you STILL havent posted anything other than "bran bran bran" or "raptors and tronto sux"


dumbass.

LOL, this is driving you insane. I'm enjoying it.

STOP BEING SO SALTY! I thought Canadians were happy and positive.. or is it just Torontonians that act like little bitches?

[PoutinPippin]

LeBron definitely had his chances.

Quitting in 2010 playoffs. Team hopping, bragging stacking the deck only to quit in the 2011 Finals, coupled with that embarrassing loss and how poorly he played. 2014 Finals failure.

2015 honestly was winnable and could have easily erased 2010, 2010 F/A, 2011 and 2014 Finals skid marks on his resume but he blew that as well.

2016 contextually, along with Kyrie balling out, briefly saved him.

Only for 2017 to be winnable and more competitive than it was, but failed miserably there as well.

He had so many chances. Especially coming out of high school with all that time. But the ship has long sailed on him being better, greater or more accomplished than Jordan.

LeBron Stans clinging to that potentiality now, is actually really pathetic and sad.

[red1]

LOL, this is driving you insane. I'm enjoying it.

STOP BEING SO SALTY! I thought Canadians were happy and positive.. or is it just Torontonians that act like little bitches?

you have nothing to say dude. dont have a team, just repeat the same three troll lines, and now are annoyed and cant take an L like a man. :oldlol:



I love it. just deal with it dude. :oldlol:

[Goldrush25]

Only for 2017 to be winnable and more competitive than it was, but failed miserably there as well.


See you went too far here. Once the 73 win Warriors added the second best player in the world, everyone in the world knew that this championship was a given. No team in the history of the game could've beat those Warriors in a 7 game series. It was not winnable.

[Axe]

Im just responding to OP's point.


OP's point about it being hard to make a documentary is retarded. I think lebron has had the most documented and interesting career that I've seen.


so as per usual with OP - just no.



you're a ****ing retard as well DoctorP.
Lmao

[Axe]

See you went too far here. Once the 73 win Warriors added the second best player in the world, everyone in the world knew that this championship was a given. No team in the history of the game could've beat those Warriors in a 7 game series. It was not winnable.
Fatigue could also be a factor for them. I mean they probably overachieved in the regular season so that's why they struggled a bit in the playoffs. But while the run was impressive, it's kinda hard to recognize it over other goat teams when it has no ring at all. Just imho tho.

[StrongLurk]

I actually agree with the OP (rare occasion). I'm a big Lebron fan and have watched Lebron more than any other athlete and to me he is clearly a top 3-4 NBA player ever (He honestly might end up still being at superstar level at 38).

BUT, he is NOT better than MJ. It's an extremely difficult argument to even put him equal to MJ...but to suggest he is clear cut BETTER? That's nonsense.

Lebron HAS had his moments to due truly "impossible" things. He had a chance to FOUR-PEAT with the Heat (would have been GOAT shit doing a 4-peat with 4 FMVPs)...he had a chance to win the 2015 finals COMPLETELY outmanned and even willed his team to go up 2-1, but couldn't close it out.

There are other moments too, but the point is as great as Lebron is, he has not done enough to SURPASS MJ. I mean, it's a feat in of itself to even be in the position to be the GOAT in a sport. You have to be so good for so long and have lucky factors as well to even be in the conversation.

I think that if Lebron was TRULY the best player ever (better than MJ), he would have 4-peated with the Heat at a minimum...and maybe even won the 2015 finals. I don't think 2007 or 2018 finals would be series he would win even as the best player ever. 2017 would have been interesting, but I think the 2017 Warriors were the GOAT team for sure.

[Lebron23]

If there's ever a documentary on LeBron, I fully expect there to be two more about Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. Because THAT is LeBron's legacy... for LIFE.

This idiot is just a terrible poster. Probably a European or a filipino.

[tpols]

Lebron had GOAT ability, but was so fragile mentally he blew it all.

time and time again.

[Lebron23]

Lebron had GOAT ability, but was so fragile mentally he blew it all.

time and time again.

Still have more finals mvp, and regular season mvp than Kobe Bryant.

[PoutinPippin]

I actually agree with the OP (rare occasion). I'm a big Lebron fan and have watched Lebron more than any other athlete and to me he is clearly a top 3-4 NBA player ever (He honestly might end up still being at superstar level at 38).

BUT, he is NOT better than MJ. It's an extremely difficult argument to even put him equal to MJ...but to suggest he is clear cut BETTER? That's nonsense.

Lebron HAS had his moments to due truly "impossible" things. He had a chance to FOUR-PEAT with the Heat (would have been GOAT shit doing a 4-peat with 4 FMVPs)...he had a chance to win the 2015 finals COMPLETELY outmanned and even willed his team to go up 2-1, but couldn't close it out.

There are other moments too, but the point is as great as Lebron is, he has not done enough to SURPASS MJ. I mean, it's a feat in of itself to even be in the position to be the GOAT in a sport. You have to be so good for so long and have lucky factors as well to even be in the conversation.

I think that if Lebron was TRULY the best player ever (better than MJ), he would have 4-peated with the Heat at a minimum...and maybe even won the 2015 finals. I don't think 2007 or 2018 finals would be series he would win even as the best player ever. 2017 would have been interesting, but I think the 2017 Warriors were the GOAT team for sure.
Agree with bolded. He had a stunning opportunity that Finals. Blew it.

2017 however? Nah. If you’re a top three player ever, Warriors having one more great player than his own stacked team had? That’s not enough to justify getting damn near swept.

Game 3 was winnable. LeBron didn’t play defense, got torched all series. Offense wasn’t the issue. They had quite the offensive talent on the roster.

[Roundball_Rock]

A lot of the talk is about team results. If LeBron had Jerry Krause and MJ Danny Ferry how does the "rings!" picture look then?

[Lebron23]

A lot of the talk is about team results. If LeBron had Jerry Krause and MJ Danny Ferry how does the "rings!" picture look then?

His 2nd best player in his first stint with the Cavs was Mo Williams.

[Soundwave]

A lot of the talk is about team results. If LeBron had Jerry Krause and MJ Danny Ferry how does the "rings!" picture look then?

If MJ went to join Ewing and Barkley on the Knicks as a super-team maneuver at age 25 ... how many rings does he get?

LeBron has been playing on loaded teams more or less from age 25 onwards.

The Miami era should have been better but he did not want to play a system that got the most out of Wade/Bosh in the way Jordan sacrificed his individual game to embrace the triangle offence which was better suited for Pippen.

One guy is willing to adapt to a team first system, the other guy was not willing to make any changes.

[Axe]

His 2nd best player in his first stint with the Cavs was Mo Williams.
Who's said to be better than scottie pippen, actually? 🤔

[Roundball_Rock]

Wade and Bosh don't equal Barkley and Ewing. :oldlol: Bosh made one all-NBA team in his career.


His 2nd best player in his first stint with the Cavs was Mo Williams.

Exactly.:roll:

He finally got Wade but he got Wade as Wade really only for 2011. Wade was still great in 2012 but no longer the Wade of 2006-2011. Wade fell off a lot in 2013 and 2014. Timing matters.

Bosh was 15/7/1 in the playoffs in Miami. That is pretty poor production considering his salary.

[Soundwave]

Wade and Bosh don't equal Barkley and Ewing. :oldlol: Bosh made one all-NBA team in his career.



Exactly.:roll:

He finally got Wade but he got Wade as Wade really only for 2011. Wade was still great in 2012 but no longer the Wade of 2006-2011. Wade fell off a lot in 2013 and 2014. Timing matters.

Bosh was 15/7/1 in the playoffs in Miami. That is pretty poor production for a max salary player.

No he was not willing to adjust his style of play to suit Wade, there's no way Wade should have fallen off like that, neither Bosh.

LeBron wants to play LeBron ball, which is basically him dominating the ball.

He was not willing to do what Jordan did for the Bulls when he accepted the triangle offence which allowed Pippen to flourish. It didn't even look like he ever listened to anything Spoelstra was telling him.

It was "supposed to be easy" (winning 4/5 titles at least) and they were gonna do it on talent alone, what they didn't realize is you actually need to sacrifice some parts of your individual game and that needs to come from your best player as well. That was never part of what LeBron signed up for in Miami.

If Jordan played with Wade and Bosh, he would've adjusted his game to play more off the ball and let Wade be the primary ball handler and get Bosh some easy touches down low too ... not relegating him to the 3 point line.

[Lebron23]

If MJ went to join Ewing and Barkley on the Knicks as a super-team maneuver at age 25 ... how many rings does he get?

LeBron has been playing on loaded teams more or less from age 25 onwards.

The Miami era should have been better but he did not want to play a system that got the most out of Wade/Bosh in the way Jordan sacrificed his individual game to embrace the triangle offence which was better suited for Pippen.

One guy is willing to adapt to a team first system, the other guy was not willing to make any changes.

Outside of his 2011 performance LeBron's been a great finals performer. His kinda very unlucky see 2025 nba finals both love and irving got injured. And kevin durant joining a 73 wins team.

[Lebron23]

No he was not willing to adjust his style of play to suit Wade, there's no way Wade should have fallen off like that, neither Bosh.

LeBron wants to play LeBron ball, which is basically him dominating the ball.

He was not willing to do what Jordan did for the Bulls when he accepted the triangle offence which allowed Pippen to flourish. It didn't even look like he ever listened to anything Spoelstra was telling him.

It was "supposed to be easy" (winning 4/5 titles at least) and they were gonna do it on talent alone, what they didn't realize is you actually need to sacrifice some parts of your individual game and that needs to come from your best player as well. That was never part of what LeBron signed up for in Miami.

Eric Spoloestra is just an above average coach. People are still questioning if lebron is coachable?? He is on he verge of winning a 4th nba title with 3 different nba coaches.

[Roundball_Rock]

there's no way Wade should have fallen off like that

Why not? Wade got hurt every year. Eventually injuries will take a toll.

Bosh played better in the RS than the playoffs. His numbers sucked in the playoffs.


His kinda very unlucky see 2025 nba finals both love and irving got injured

Which never comes up in the "3-6" stuff. So if they are healthy and win in 2015 that somehow makes him a better player? Jordan never had major injuries in the playoffs to his teammates like LeBron and KAJ had. Bosh missed a bunch of games, including half of the ECF, in the 2012 playoffs as well, which is forgotten.

[Soundwave]

Eric Spoloestra is just an above average cosxh

LeBron is basically the coach where ever he plays. He's not willing to be coached in any system that isn't basically "LeBron ball". Your job as coach on a LeBron team is basically to just instill a LeBron system, anything else is not a discussion.

[Lebron23]

LeBron is basically the coach where ever he plays. He's not willing to be coached in any system that isn't basically "LeBron ball". Your job as coach on a LeBron team is basically to just instill a LeBron system, anything else is a non-starter.

Same with michael jordan. He only won nba titles with phil jackson., And his triangle offense. Any other coach like Doug collins he is less successful. If phil was coaching his 2001-2003 Wizards they could have been a playoffs team.

[Soundwave]

Same with michael jordan. He only won nba titles with phil jackson., And his triangle offense. Any other coach like Doug collins he is less successful.

No you betray your point by bringing this up.

Phil Jackson was dick all nobody rookie coach in 1990 ... Michael Jordan willingly submitted to an offence that meant the ball was in his hands less to a coach who at the time was Joe Nobody.

Phil Jackson is only "the" Phil Jackson now because Jordan was willing to sacrifice his individual style of play and take a chance on a coach with a system that took the ball out of his hands.

MJ could've easily said "nope, we're not doing that, who are you to tell me how to play". He didn't.

LeBron James would never agree to that from some rookie coach.

LeBron was not willing to make any adjustments to his game in Miami and that hurt Wade and Bosh. Jordan was willing to make adjustments and that helped Pippen and Grant. These two are not the same. Miami should have been a better team than that.

[tpols]

I keep hearing mo williams but the best players on the early cavs were larry hughes, Big Z, boozer and antawn jamison.

All of which combined had multiple all star games and all defensive teams to their names. Hell, even Anderson Varejeo made an all D team. :lol

This is before Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, and Anthony Davis.

:biggums:

[Lebron23]

No you betray your point by bringing this up.

Phil Jackson was dick all nobody in 1990 ... Michael Jordan willingly submitted to an offence that meant the ball was in his hands less to a coach who at the time was Joe Nobody.

Phil Jackson is only "the" Phil Jackson now because Jordan was willing to sacrifice his individual style of play and take a chance on a coach with a system that took the ball out of his hands.

LeBron James would never agree to that.

Phil Jackson won 5 nba titles coaching Shaq and Kobe. He's the most successful coach in the last 30 years. You are underestimating his coaching philosophy.

[34-24 Footwork]

See you went too far here. Once the 73 win Warriors added the second best player in the world, everyone in the world knew that this championship was a given. No team in the history of the game could've beat those Warriors in a 7 game series. It was not winnable.

Why do you cling to them being a 73-win team instead of being finals losers? You think it strengthens your point? Added effect, maybe? They lost after getting screwed over by the league and signed reinforcements.

[Lebron23]

I keep hearing mo williams but the best players on the early cavs were larry hughes, Big Z, boozer and antawn jamison.

All of which combined had multiple all star games and alldefensive teams to their name. Even Anderson Varejeo had an all D team to his name. :lol

This is before Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, and Anthony Davis.

:biggums:

Antawn Jamison was barely used by mike brown in the post season when the cavs acquired him he was a shell of his former shell. Same with larry hughes who was always hurt, and just a very inconsistent player.

[Soundwave]

Phil Jackson won 5 nba titles coaching Shaq and Kobe. He's the most successful coach in the last 30 years. You are underestimating his coaching philosophy.

And none of that happens if Michael Jordan doesn't first agree to trust a coach and a system that takes the ball out of his hands.

Phil Jackson was a nobody in 1990 ... hadn't won sh*t, was a rookie head coach. For Jordan to make that sacrifice and place that much trust in someone with no track record is telling.

LeBron was never willing to do this for the Heat. It was his way or (well what happened) "I'll take off somewhere else when its convenient again".

[Lebron23]

Phil Jackson turned career losing ball hogs into multiple nba champions. Jordan sandbagging, and getting Doug Collins fired was the best thing that ever happened to his basketball career

[Soundwave]

Phil Jackson turned career losing ball hogs into multiple nba champion. Jordan sandbagging, and getting Doug Collins fired was the best thing that ever happened to his basketball career

Yes, because you have buy in from the best player and a willingness to sacrifice.

LeBron only is getting this level of maturity now with AD, he goes out of his way now to make sure AD gets his and it's only because he's 35 now and realizes he can't operate the same way he used to.

If he had that mentality in Miami, I think the results are better but I think at the time he just thought winning titles would easy just on talent alone. He was wrong.

[Lebron23]

And none of that happens if Michael Jordan doesn't first agree to trust a coach and a system that takes the ball out of his hands.

Phil Jackson was a nobody in 1990 ... hadn't won sh*t, was a rookie head coach. For Jordan to make that sacrifice and place that much trust in someone with no track record is telling.

LeBron was never willing to do this for the Heat. It was his way or (well what happened) "I'll take off somewhere else when its convenient again".

Because he respected Tex Winter and his triangle offense. Jordan Ball was 1-9 in the playoffs.

[Roundball_Rock]

Jackson was Jordan's 4th coach in 6 years. At some point you have to give the coach some rope and a shot, especially after MJ clashed with Collins over the same issue of ball hogging. Moreover, as the "doc" showed, the GM pushed Tex Winter too because of his respect for him.

With LeBron he made a finals in Miami his first year and won his second. Same thing when he went back to Cleveland. Different incentives than a revolving door of coaches and never clearing 50 wins.

Riley was in the building. Did he ask LeBron to play a different way or the team to run a different offense?

[Soundwave]

Jackson was Jordan's 4th coach in 6 years. At some point you have to give the coach some rope and a shot, especially after MJ clashed with Collins over the same issue of ball hogging. Moreover, as the "doc" showed, the GM pushed Tex Winter too because of his respect for him.

With LeBron he made a finals in Miami his first year and won his second. Same thing when he went back to Cleveland. Different incentives than a revolving door of coaches and never clearing 50 wins.

Riley was in the building. Did he ask LeBron to play a different way or the team to run a different offense?

Nobody tells LeBron anything, he plays whatever system he wants and the coach/GM have to be OK with that.

He is not willing to play a system that he doesn't like or one that forces him to make large adjustments.

That's all there is to it, and that's also why Miami will never be remembered as a truly great team even though they had ample talent all in their 20s to start with.

You had a superstar player who's style of play didn't really mesh with the other two guys and the superstar is not willing to change, so over the years Wade and Bosh not surprisingly got progressively worse.

The Heat never looked like a "great team", they just looked like a group of individuals that sometimes won a title basically powering by on talent alone.

[Lebron23]

Yes, because you have buy in from the best player and a willingness to sacrifice.

LeBron only is getting this level of maturity now with AD, he goes out of his way now to make sure AD gets his and it's only because he's 35 now and realizes he can't operate the same way he used to.

If he had that mentality in Miami, I think the results are better but I think at the time he just thought winning titles would easy just on talent alone. He was wrong.

I agree that frank vogel is the best coach that handled lebron. That's why i liked lebron's chances of winning a fourth title this year. Lakers are top in offense, and top 3 in defense. Only an injury, and father time finally catching up to LeBron can stop them from winning an nba title.

[Soundwave]

I agree that frank vogel is the best coach that handled lebron. That's why i liked lebron's chances of winning a fourth title this year. Lakers are top in offense, and top 3 in defense. Only an injury, and father time finally catching up to LeBron can stop them from winning an nba title.

LeBron is willing to listen now only because he knows he's 35 and he needs AD to carry more of the slack.

But Miami-era LeBron, forget it, that's not a discussion with the coach. You're playing LeBron-ball and Wade/Bosh can make that work or not, doesn't matter if that style of play really doesn't cater to their strengths.

That team shouldn't have been getting beat by old ass Tim Duncan, but they were because they would not submit to a system that got the best out of them as a trio.

The Bulls were willing to make that adjustment starting from the biggest sacrifice at the top from Jordan. One guy benefitted by having a team that is thought of as all-time great. Miami Heat? No one mentions them with the Lakers/Celtics/Bulls/Warriors.

[Axe]

Yup. Tbh, the heat was supposed to be a dynasty during the triumvirate era but for some obvious reasons, they simply weren't. Which is disappointing. If they were to be compared to the spurs team led by another trio in duncan, ginobili and parker, as well as leonard. They were simply more successful even if they didn't win back-to-back titles. Sometimes, it's just all about the hype but expectations somewhat felt short.

[Lebron23]

Yup. Tbh, the heat was supposed to be a dynasty during the triumvirate era but for some obvious reasons, they simply weren't. Which is disappointing. If they were to be compared to the spurs team led by another trio in duncan, ginobili and parker, as well as leonard, they were more successful even if they didn't win back-to-back titles. Sometimes, it's all about the hype but expectations somewhat felt short.

Lebron only played four years in miami. I think he returned to cleveland because in his subconscious mind he wanted to win an nba title for his hometown. If lebron return to miami. They would have traded chris bosh and michael beasley for Dwight Howard. And riley would probably surrounded him with 3 points shooters

[Lebron23]

Why do you cling to them being a 73-win team instead of being finals losers? You think it strengthens your point? Added effect, maybe? They lost after getting screwed over by the league and signed reinforcements.

Because lebron with a healthy cavaliers roster not only defeated a 73 wins team,but also defeated the defending nba champion.

[knicksman]

Lebron is the type of leader that tries to do everything so everyone would sympathize on him for doing everything. He knows he doesnt have the skills for the position so hes expecting an L so he tries to do everything so when the L comes everyone would sympathize. Hes basically a wolf in sheeps clothing. Great leaders knows how to win and have the skills for it so they use their teammates to full capacity so he could focus on what matters(scoring). Thats what separates jordan and lebron. Thats why its always not enough for lebron coz he really is the problem. Hes just not that good. Kobe won 5 rings playing jordan style and kawhi is making it look so easy yet bron stans still blame teammates.

[Whoah10115]

So much bullshit all around

[red1]

knickswoman dumber than a sack of rocks :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

Did Riley say anything? I never heard of it. I do know LeBron asked to play more off the ball in Cleveland but the team's data said they would be worse if he did and they rejected him.


You had a superstar player who's style of play didn't really mesh with the other two guys and the superstar is not willing to change, so over the years Wade and Bosh not surprisingly got progressively worse.

Wade getting injured every year didn't play a role or aging?

Bosh was 17/7/2 on 51% in the regular season, including 19/9/2 the first year.
Bosh was down to 15/7/1 on 48% in the playoffs.

So it is the same system but Bosh's production fell in the playoffs.

When LeBron left Bosh went 20/7/2 over the next two seasons but on 46% as the #1 option (he shot 52% LeBron's last season).

Wade fell steadily:

2011: 26/6/5 (age 29)
2012: 22/5/5
2013: 21/5/5
2014: 19/5/5 (age 32)

Wade's 2011 numbers mirrored his 2010 numbers of 27/5/7. He scored the same on less volume because his efficiency improved. He was similar in the 2012 and 2013 seasons, although he was down to 16/5/5 in the 13' playoffs. In 2014 he took another step back.

When LeBron left Wade went 22/4/5 but his efficiency went from 55% to 47% in 15'. He was 19/4/5 on 46% in 16' and steadily declined thereafter.

The LeBron theory has some merit but they didn't turn into monsters when he left. Their surface stats improved but on plummeting efficiency of -6% and -8%.

[SATAN]

knickswoman dumber than a sack of rocks :oldlol:

:lol